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12 Y.o. Stowaway Flew BRU-AGP  
User currently offlineGonzalo From Chile, joined Aug 2005, 1992 posts, RR: 2
Posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 7743 times:

Not the first time this happens, and probably not the last. A 12 years old boy boarded ( without any ID or ticket ) a Jetair plane in Brussels and enjoyed a free ride to Malaga ( Spain ). The boy called the attention of one security agent after walking erratically through the Spanish airport. Authorities are looking the security camera's tapes to find out how was this possible. Probably someone will be looking for a new job soon.

http://www.lanacion.com.ar/1553421-u...rtuaria-y-volo-de-belgica-a-espana

I couldn't find a link in English for this, if someone has one, please share.

Rgds.

[Edited 2013-02-09 14:22:39]


80 Knots...V1...Rotate...Gear Up...DC-3 / EMB-110 / Fairchild-227 / Ab318-19-20 / B732 / B763
52 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineUALWN From Andorra, joined Jun 2009, 2855 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 7652 times:

Quoting Gonzalo (Thread starter):
A 12 years old boy boarded ( without any ID or ticket ) a Jetstar plane in Brussels and enjoyed a free ride to Malaga ( Spain ).

The flight was on Jetairfly, part of TUI, not Jetstar.



AT7/111/146/Avro/CRJ/CR9/EMB/ERJ/E75/F50/100/L15/DC9/D10/M8X/717/727/737/747/757/767/777/AB6/310/319/320/321/330/340/380
User currently offlineflyingalex From Germany, joined Jul 2010, 1016 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 7622 times:

Quoting Gonzalo (Thread starter):
A 12 years old boy boarded ( without any ID or ticket )

The ID part of this is normal in a lot of Schengen countries for flights to other Schengen countries.

But if he had no ticket, how on Earth did he get a boarding pass? And if he didn't have a boarding pass, how on Earth did he get airside?



Public service announcement: "It's" = "it is". To indicate posession, write "its." Looks wrong, but it's correct grammar
User currently offlinewarden145 From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 522 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 7608 times:

Quoting flyingalex (Reply 2):
But if he had no ticket, how on Earth did he get a boarding pass? And if he didn't have a boarding pass, how on Earth did he get airside?

Maybe he claimed that his father went onboard but dropped his wallet?    



ETOPS = Engine Turns Off, Passengers Swim
User currently offlineGonzalo From Chile, joined Aug 2005, 1992 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 7588 times:

Quoting UALWN (Reply 1):
The flight was on Jetairfly, part of TUI, not Jetstar.

Thank you, I corrected my original post. ( Jetstar....      )

Quoting flyingalex (Reply 2):
The ID part of this is normal in a lot of Schengen countries for flights to other Schengen countries.

But if he had no ticket, how on Earth did he get a boarding pass? And if he didn't have a boarding pass, how on Earth did he get airside?

This is specially strange since this stowaway is an unaccompanied minor. There are ( supposedly ) protocols to handle kids flying without adult supervision, and apparently this time no one was applied.

Rgds.
G.



80 Knots...V1...Rotate...Gear Up...DC-3 / EMB-110 / Fairchild-227 / Ab318-19-20 / B732 / B763
User currently offlinerwy04lga From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 3176 posts, RR: 8
Reply 5, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 7553 times:

Quoting warden145 (Reply 3):
Maybe he claimed that his father went onboard but dropped his wallet?

That's similar to Ada Quonsett's (Helen Hayes) line in 'Airport'. She claimed her son had dropped his wallet. Did the kid have a black marker?



Just accept that some days, you're the pigeon, and other days the statue
User currently offlineflyingalex From Germany, joined Jul 2010, 1016 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 7537 times:

Quoting Gonzalo (Reply 4):

This is specially strange since this stowaway is an unaccompanied minor. There are ( supposedly ) protocols to handle kids flying without adult supervision, and apparently this time no one was applied.

You only get UM service if you request it (and pay for it, on some airlines). I flew unaccompanied several times when I was 10-14, and only got the UM treatment the first two or three trips. After that, my parents figured I knew the drill. And I did.



Public service announcement: "It's" = "it is". To indicate posession, write "its." Looks wrong, but it's correct grammar
User currently offlinewarden145 From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 522 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 7472 times:

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 5):
That's similar to Ada Quonsett's (Helen Hayes) line in 'Airport'. She claimed her son had dropped his wallet. Did the kid have a black marker?

Nice to see that someone got the reference   

Quoting flyingalex (Reply 6):
You only get UM service if you request it (and pay for it, on some airlines). I flew unaccompanied several times when I was 10-14, and only got the UM treatment the first two or three trips. After that, my parents figured I knew the drill. And I did.

   That was my experience as well...I did a lot of UM flying (mostly SJC-LAX RT) before age 17, and I only got the UM service treatment a few times before age 8 or so. After that, I knew SJC Terminal A and LAX Terminal 4 well enough that I was guiding other people through the terminals 



ETOPS = Engine Turns Off, Passengers Swim
User currently offlineYYZYYT From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 971 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 7380 times:

Quoting flyingalex (Reply 2):
The ID part of this is normal in a lot of Schengen countries for flights to other Schengen countries.


Are you confusing ID with passport? Even domestic flights here we need to show ID to board, does not need to be a passport... or can you really board without ID in the EU?

This story is remarkable, when you think about it.

He got through security.

He got past the gate agent.

He got past the FA at the door and into a seat (I guess he picked an unoccupied one).

And what about the passenger count before the door was closed?


User currently offlineBasilFawlty From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 1328 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 7338 times:

Quoting flyingalex (Reply 2):
The ID part of this is normal in a lot of Schengen countries for flights to other Schengen countries

No it isn't, you still need to have ID so the ground staff at the gate can check if the names on the boardingpass and ID are matching.



'Every year donkeys and mules kill more people than plane crashes'
User currently offlineskiaplg From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2012, 79 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 7162 times:

Surprising that he was able to pass the onboard passenger count - recently I was flying AF from Prague, and because of a problem in the number of people on board they had to check everyone's boarding pass on the plane!

User currently offlineflyingalex From Germany, joined Jul 2010, 1016 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 6718 times:

Quoting YYZYYT (Reply 8):
Are you confusing ID with passport? Even domestic flights here we need to show ID to board, does not need to be a passport... or can you really board without ID in the EU?

Yes, you can fly without showing ID within the Schengen zone. I did it just last week, from Germany to Spain. I had my ID with me, of course, but I never had to show it.

That said, you will need to show ID to check in a bag.

Quoting BasilFawlty (Reply 9):
No it isn't, you still need to have ID so the ground staff at the gate can check if the names on the boardingpass and ID are matching.

In the Netherlands, yes. In Spain also. But in many Schengen countries such checks are not done on intra-Schengen flights. I'm not sure what the rule is in Belgium, it's been a while since I've flown from there.

That's not to say that the airline will not choose to do ID checks anyway as a revenue protection measure, but in most countries there is no government regulation requiring such checks.



Public service announcement: "It's" = "it is". To indicate posession, write "its." Looks wrong, but it's correct grammar
User currently offlineCrimsonNL From Netherlands, joined Dec 2007, 1887 posts, RR: 42
Reply 12, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 5613 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
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Quoting BasilFawlty (Reply 9):
No it isn't, you still need to have ID so the ground staff at the gate can check if the names on the boardingpass and ID are matching.

This actually is more of an airline procedure then a governmental requirement these days on Schengen flights. Theres quite a few airlines that don't check for ID's at the gate anymore.

Martijn



Nothing's worse then flying the same registration twice, except flying it 4 times..
User currently offlineaeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 5012 times:

Quoting BasilFawlty (Reply 9):

No it isn't, you still need to have ID so the ground staff at the gate can check if the names on the boardingpass and ID are matching.

Minors do not need to provide ID.

Quoting skiaplg (Reply 10):
Surprising that he was able to pass the onboard passenger count - recently I was flying AF from Prague, and because of a problem in the number of people on board they had to check everyone's boarding pass on the plane!

Passenger count is only done on international flights at many airlines. It's done to ensure that the airline checked that everybody has appropriate entry credentials into the destination country.

On intra-schengen and other domestic flights, many airlines don't bother with passenger count so that they can schedule tighter turns.



Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
User currently offlineBasilFawlty From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 1328 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks ago) and read 3663 times:

Quoting flyingalex (Reply 11):
In the Netherlands, yes. In Spain also. But in many Schengen countries such checks are not done on intra-Schengen flights. I'm not sure what the rule is in Belgium, it's been a while since I've flown from there.

That's not to say that the airline will not choose to do ID checks anyway as a revenue protection measure, but in most countries there is no government regulation requiring such checks.

But as far as I know it's illegal to have someone onboard with a boarding pass without his own name on it? The same for someone without a boarding pass at all (except crews and other airline staff ofcourse). How are you going to prevent to have unwelcome people onboard if you don't do a proper ID check at the gate and a proper headcount onboard?

Quoting CrimsonNL (Reply 12):
This actually is more of an airline procedure then a governmental requirement these days on Schengen flights. Theres quite a few airlines that don't check for ID's at the gate anymore.

Which is a bad development in my view, the results are situations like this.

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 13):
Minors do not need to provide ID.

But they can't fly on their own either, unless they're booked as UM ofcourse, but the boy in this story wasn't booked at all.

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 13):
Passenger count is only done on international flights at many airlines. It's done to ensure that the airline checked that everybody has appropriate entry credentials into the destination country.

On intra-schengen and other domestic flights, many airlines don't bother with passenger count so that they can schedule tighter turns.

Another bad development.

ALL airlines should do ID checks at the gate AND perform a headcount onboard, no matter what sort of flight it is. Domestic, intra-Schengen, international, etc... I've boarded hundreds of flights when I was a dispatcher and we did ID checks at all passengers and the aircraft never left until a headcount was performed and confirmed.



'Every year donkeys and mules kill more people than plane crashes'
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25638 posts, RR: 22
Reply 15, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 3313 times:

Quoting flyingalex (Reply 2):
Quoting Gonzalo (Thread starter):
A 12 years old boy boarded ( without any ID or ticket )

The ID part of this is normal in a lot of Schengen countries for flights to other Schengen countries.

On my last few trips from GVA, all entirely within Schengen, all involving 4 flights with a connection each way, I wasn't required to show any ID anywhere, either at the security check or the boarding gate. I could have made all those trips with only a boarding pass and no passport or other identification whatsoever.


User currently offlineBasilFawlty From Netherlands, joined Jun 2009, 1328 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 3250 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 15):
I could have made all those trips with only a boarding pass and no passport or other identification whatsoever.

Yes, or even worse, I (or any other person) could have made those trips with YOUR boardingpass with YOUR name on it and nobody would have noticed it, which is very bad.



'Every year donkeys and mules kill more people than plane crashes'
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25638 posts, RR: 22
Reply 17, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 3218 times:

Quoting BasilFawlty (Reply 16):
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 15):
I could have made all those trips with only a boarding pass and no passport or other identification whatsoever.

Yes, or even worse, I (or any other person) could have made those trips with YOUR boardingpass with YOUR name on it and nobody would have noticed it, which is very bad.

That's the thought that crossed my mind. All those trips were on KLM via AMS by the way, but my last trip on LH 2 weeks ago GVA-TXL-GVA was the same. Never had ot take my passport out of my pocket at either end. Ironically, the only place I've had to show a passport recently has been when checking into hotels as they often want to see your ID.


User currently offlineltbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13138 posts, RR: 15
Reply 18, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 3186 times:

I would assume that his parents had to purchase a ticket for his return flight - and under strict supervision on that flight. How did he get the airport, maybe on the train? I bet his parents were a bit shocked when they got the call that he was in AGP.
He did commit several crimes, including not paying for a service and possible breaking of security at the airport although I suspect he due to his age nor his parents will face any penalties Worse is that the airport and airliner security screwed up big time and should have caught him and they will likely face penalties.


User currently offlineaeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 3130 times:

Quoting BasilFawlty (Reply 14):
But they can't fly on their own either, unless they're booked as UM ofcourse, but the boy in this story wasn't booked at all.

12 year olds can fly without UM on many airlines at the age of 12. UA, DL, AA, AI, 9W, all have this policy. I'm sure others do as well.



Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
User currently offlineUALWN From Andorra, joined Jun 2009, 2855 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 3011 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 17):
All those trips were on KLM via AMS by the way, but my last trip on LH 2 weeks ago GVA-TXL-GVA was the same. Never had ot take my passport out of my pocket at either end.

Same here flying BCN-GVA-BCN on LX.



AT7/111/146/Avro/CRJ/CR9/EMB/ERJ/E75/F50/100/L15/DC9/D10/M8X/717/727/737/747/757/767/777/AB6/310/319/320/321/330/340/380
User currently offlineflyingalex From Germany, joined Jul 2010, 1016 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 2963 times:

Quoting BasilFawlty (Reply 14):
But as far as I know it's illegal to have someone onboard with a boarding pass without his own name on it? The same for someone without a boarding pass at all (except crews and other airline staff ofcourse). How are you going to prevent to have unwelcome people onboard if you don't do a proper ID check at the gate and a proper headcount onboard?

Illegal in what country?

As for your second point, it is the gate's responsibility to only let people aboard who have a boarding pass. That is, in a sense, your temporary ID for a given flight. It gives you the right to get on aircraft X. No boarding pass, no boarding. Simple as that. If I walk up to a gate and try to get on a flight I don't have a boarding pass for, I'm going to get a serious talking to, at minimum. This kid probably slipped through the cracks simply because he was a kid, and therefore not perceived as a threat.

In any case, even if someone sneaks aboard, presumably anyone who is airside will have been screened?

Quoting BasilFawlty (Reply 14):
But they can't fly on their own either, unless they're booked as UM ofcourse, but the boy in this story wasn't booked at all.

Not true. Minors (people under the age of 18) can and do fly unaccompanied all the time. UM service is mandatory until age 12, after that, the parents can book UM service for their kid, but it is not required.

See also:

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 19):
12 year olds can fly without UM on many airlines at the age of 12. UA, DL, AA, AI, 9W, all have this policy. I'm sure others do as well.
Quoting BasilFawlty (Reply 16):
Yes, or even worse, I (or any other person) could have made those trips with YOUR boardingpass with YOUR name on it and nobody would have noticed it, which is very bad.

Why is it bad? Knowing the names of your passengers achieves nothing for security, screening them properly does. Look at the US - they've wasted massive amounts of time, money and goodwill on their national no-fly list, and it's been nothing but a PR nightmare for them.



Public service announcement: "It's" = "it is". To indicate posession, write "its." Looks wrong, but it's correct grammar
User currently offlines5daw From Slovenia, joined May 2011, 253 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 2961 times:

Quoting YYZYYT (Reply 8):
Are you confusing ID with passport? Even domestic flights here we need to show ID to board, does not need to be a passport... or can you really board without ID in the EU?

Depends. On some airports they don't check IDs at all since they installed automatic boarding gates. You just scan the boarding pass and you are done.

With web checkin it is indeed possible to travel with a fake name.


User currently offlineCrimsonNL From Netherlands, joined Dec 2007, 1887 posts, RR: 42
Reply 23, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 2911 times:
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CHAT OPERATOR

Quoting BasilFawlty (Reply 16):

Yes, or even worse, I (or any other person) could have made those trips with YOUR boardingpass with YOUR name on it and nobody would have noticed it, which is very bad.

We have open borders in Europe, so I could cross the border to Germany by car, train or on foot, with your passport on me and no one would give a crap. Why should it be different on airplanes? Assuming that the security checkpoint does it's job, what's the problem if person B travels on a boarding card with person A's name on it?

Martijn



Nothing's worse then flying the same registration twice, except flying it 4 times..
User currently offlines5daw From Slovenia, joined May 2011, 253 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 2899 times:

Quoting CrimsonNL (Reply 23):
what's the problem if person B travels on a boarding card with person A's name on it?

The land of the free has "No Fly List" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Fly_List so this concept must be terrifying  


25 keegd76 : This is not the case in the UK. Passenger count is mandatory on ALL flights, domestic and international. I know, I've been on both. Which airports ha
26 Bralo20 : Brussels has those, you can board the A terminal (Schengen flights) with just scanning a boarding pass. There's one security at the boarding gates bu
27 CrimsonNL : A carrier from the UK that I work with, has recently updated their procedures and now no longer do a headcount on flights from AMS to the UK.. The LH
28 s5daw : I'm quite sure MUC is like this, at least for schengen flights. I think VIE has the automatic boarding gates at the new terminal, but I don't remembe
29 Gonzalo : I'm certainly shocked about the difference between Europe and my home country regarding how relaxed are the procedures to board an aircraft. Since I o
30 keegd76 : Thanks for info. Very surprising that not checking ID or doing a head count is starting to become common practice. I had always thought ID checks wer
31 RyanairGuru : Only for international flights, and inter-Schengen effectively counts as domestic. If you think that Schengen sounds relaxed then try domestic flying
32 N : There's a lot of confusion here about airlines choosing to check ID at the gate for revenue protection reasons and airlines being required to check I
33 Gonzalo : A little off topic, but what happen in case of an accident ? Here in Chile we are required to tell our full name and number of Identification Card ev
34 Bralo20 : You'll have to fill out these details when you book your ticket. But you are correct, you could fill in DOE/JOHN for example and few will notice it..
35 Post contains images BasilFawlty : It's not their job to indentify people, their only job is to prevent people from bringing forbidden items on board. It's the airline's responsibility
36 flyingalex : Quite a few airports in continental Europe. BRU, MUC, FRA, DUS, ZRH, probably a lot more. In addition, I hear that at LHR's Terminal 5, BA are prepar
37 Gonzalo : I got your point regarding the overall safety of the flight, the important thing is not the name, the gender or the age of the person, the important
38 BasilFawlty : Security checks have nothing to do with people at all, their only intention is to look for forbidden items. They don't have to know who's standing in
39 flyingalex : Which was exactly my point. Check that people are "clean", and do so diligently, and it becomes irrelevant who they are. If I have a boarding pass fo
40 Viscount724 : Your car trip across the border isn't covered by a contract. An airline ticket is a contract between the passenger named on the ticket and the airlin
41 Gonzalo : My experience is different. Like I said, the whole process of putting a paper under a hand held laser scan that verifies who you are takes less than
42 Post contains images BasilFawlty : If your name is on it, yes, otherwise, no. Yes, several times in FRA, MUC and NUE, and I don't like it. No, you make it the airline's problem because
43 Viscount724 : Why not? I think it's a great idea.
44 BasilFawlty : Because it will take much longer before the gate staff can discover that something has gone wrong or that a person has just slipped through (like lot
45 ltbewr : One other issue: what if the child at the destination left the terminal ? Even within the terminal, he could be assaulted, if he left the terminal, he
46 aeroblogger : Even if the airline checked ID forging an ID is extremely easy. And unlike bouncers at a bar, airline employees probably aren't so great at picking ou
47 CrimsonNL : Even on airlines that DO check ID's at the boarding gate, it is now quite rare these days to keep the boarding card stub until boarding is completed.
48 robbb : There is no requirement for UK airlines to carry out headcounts although some choose to. I know, I'm cabin crew for a UK airline.
49 Post contains images lostsound : I'm thinking he followed who he thought was his father and bumped into the ticket agent, losing his ticket amongst the others in her hand.
50 flyingalex : That is what a headcount is for, and airlines should do them, not least out of self-interest. What kind of incident do you have in mind? By the way,
51 Gonzalo : I'm Ok with all that. You are right, the second process is *slightly* less fluent than the first. But I guess everything depends on the will of the p
52 Viscount724 : One thing I find annoying about LX online check-in is that it still prints 2 copies of the boarding pass with one intended to be retained by the chec
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