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Chance Of WN Looking At The BLI In The Future?  
User currently offlineraddek From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 135 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 4307 times:
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With all the recent talk about what WN and their strategy will be in the coming years, it got me thinking that pehaps BLI might be a decent enough market for WN to look into. I know WN does very well in BUF with all the folks coming down from the north.

BLI could be like the west coast version of BUF for WN. It wouldn't have nearly as many flights, but to a few places warm such as LAS, PHX, SAN, LAX and a flight to DEN would work well for the network. I know G4 makes their bread n butter up there from the Canadians, but why wouldn't WN want in on some of that revenue? A small operation with 3 to 5 flights a day might be enough to have them look into since the old "8 flight rule" has kinda now been thrown out the window since WN has been looking at smaller markets where they can now have contract companies do all the ground work at the airports.

Feel free to post any thoughts and comments. It would be interesting to hear other views and opinions on the matter.

42 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineprost From United States of America, joined Oct 2012, 1048 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 4234 times:

Two things there. Allegiant is already pretty big in BLI, as is Alaska. I believe Southwest has higher costs than either of these two carriers, and they'd be third to market.

Item two is Buffalo MSA is approximately 1,135,509. Bellingham WA MSA is 201,140. Now, I understand you'd need to include most of the Vancouver, BC metropolitan area to that MSA, but it just doesn't seem like this would be a market that would be very high on Southwest's radar screen.


User currently offlineraddek From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 135 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 4094 times:
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Well WN does have higher costs these days, but they fly to markets like DSM with 2 flights a day. They use contract companies out in the samll stations that they have been opening.

So that cost savings makes it profitable to fly in the smaller markets. If you add Vancouver area, then you are looking at a population over 2 million people. There is money to be made and I am sure WN could run G4 out of BLI if they wanted to. Especially to LAS and PHX.

Now you have BUF at 1.1 million and Toronto at 5 million plus. That makes over 6 million folks if you add it all together. I was just saying that BLI could be something to look into. It would be low risk for WN to go there with a few flights a day. I know there are folks that would love to see WN fly into Canada one day, but why take on all the extra costs and taxes when you can just fly to places like BUF and maybe one day BLI?


User currently offlineouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4600 posts, RR: 22
Reply 3, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 3944 times:

BUF =! BLI

Two completely different animals. I think they would rather just go into YVR and be done with it.


User currently offlineraddek From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 135 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 3818 times:
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Just go to YVR and be done with it?  

Well you are going to have to add more money on the tickets in just taxes and what not. I am sure there is a good reason why they are driving down from the north to fly out of BLI.
Sure BUF and BLI are different population wise, but really, the same business concept is there. Fly to a boarder town, have your passengers drive down to fly on you, and then you generate revenue.
I know people won't think it will happen, but from a business standpoint, there is a strong possibility it could. So only time will tell.


User currently offlineouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4600 posts, RR: 22
Reply 5, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 3692 times:

Quoting raddek (Reply 4):
I know people won't think it will happen, but from a business standpoint, there is a strong possibility it could.

If WN could get those pax to support a significant margin on the flight sure, otherwise it's not happening IMO.


User currently offlineF9animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 5055 posts, RR: 28
Reply 6, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 3668 times:

BLI is starting to already reach what I think as a city that is getting a little too many seats to grow much more. With Everett likely getting commercial flights soon, I could see WN interested in flying some metal out of there.


I Am A Different Animal!!
User currently offline7BOEING7 From United States of America, joined Oct 2012, 1593 posts, RR: 8
Reply 7, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 3599 times:

Quoting F9animal (Reply 6):
BLI is starting to already reach what I think as a city that is getting a little too many seats to grow much more. With Everett likely getting commercial flights soon, I could see WN interested in flying some metal out of there.

  


User currently offlinedlramp4life From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 931 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 3536 times:

Quoting raddek (Reply 2):
WN could run G4 out of BLI if they wanted to. Especially to LAS and PHX.

Which are strong G4 routes. WN is not looking into BLI nor will they ever. BLI is an G4 city and a AS city.

Quoting F9animal (Reply 6):
BLI is starting to already reach what I think as a city that is getting a little too many seats to grow much more. With Everett likely getting commercial flights soon, I could see WN interested in flying some metal out of there.

What about AS? Maybe a move to Everett and BLI would just be a G4 city?



PHX Ramp, hottest place on earth
User currently offlinepoint2point From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 2758 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 3495 times:

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 8):
BLI is an G4 city and a AS city.

And a seasonal (so far) F9 city.........


 


User currently offlineRaddek From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 135 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks ago) and read 3430 times:
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Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 8):

BLI is a G4 and AS city. That I know is true. But to say WN will never fly to BLI is just an emotional opinion, because you can never say never.
I will laugh the day they announce some sort of limited service there. I am not saying it would be very soon or anything, but it is something I am sure they have looked into in the past.

WN is busy with the integration with FL at the moment. But once that is all squared away, then I can see it. G4 is also an airline with tons of fees, WN does not have tons of fees.

If WN flew to LAS and PHX from BLI, that would be a bloodbath and G4 would pull out and get chased off the route. G4 is what it is in LAS because the big airlines allow them to survive.


User currently offlinedlramp4life From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 931 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3408 times:

Quoting Raddek (Reply 10):
I will laugh the day they announce some sort of limited service there. I am not saying it would be very soon or anything, but it is something I am sure they have looked into in the past.

I am sure they have looked into it but like when WN looked at AZA, it does not make sense for them to enter the market.

Quoting Raddek (Reply 10):
WN is busy with the integration with FL at the moment. But once that is all squared away, then I can see it.

Which is not going smoothly at all

Quoting Raddek (Reply 10):
G4 is also an airline with tons of fees

G4 also is a travel company they sell hotels and rental cars..

Quoting Raddek (Reply 10):
WN does not have tons of fees.

Now this will be interesting to see. If WN carries over some of the AirTran fees once all is done.

Quoting Raddek (Reply 10):
If WN flew to LAS and PHX from BLI, that would be a bloodbath and G4 would pull out and get chased off the route. G4 is what it is in LAS because the big airlines allow them to survive.

I take it you are anti-Allegiant... What about G4 in AZA,SFB,PIE,etc, etc. G4 does not have daily service like the other airlines do in LAS, also they don't fly to major cities like the legacy carriers and WN fly to.

But staying on topic, I just don't see how it makes for WN enter to BLI, if they enter any new markets in Washington it will be Everett



PHX Ramp, hottest place on earth
User currently offlineRADDEK From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 135 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3388 times:
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G4 also has carry-on luggage fees, and WN does not. You also get 2 free chanced bags currently on WN. That can change, but for now, those two fees right there would save the average passenger money.

I am not anti-Allegiant, I like their business model and they run a great company that is very profitable with the niche markets they fly to and serve, but they would pull out of the market if WN were to enter with daily LAS and PHX, G4 would simply not be able to compete.

G4 is an airline. There are a lot people who call them a travel company when they run scheduled service to many of their markets. You can book the same types packages on southwest's website where you can book silimar packages with hotel and rental car.

PAE is a market that would be good for WN. But the metro area is more limited in Snohomish County versus the Vancouver B.C area where you can pull down more passengers. I am sure the costs to operate in and out of BLI are much lower than SEA.


User currently onlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25357 posts, RR: 22
Reply 13, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3339 times:

Quoting raddek (Reply 4):
Sure BUF and BLI are different population wise, but really, the same business concept is there. Fly to a border town, have your passengers drive down to fly on you, and then you generate revenue.

The drive from Toronto to BUF is more than twice as far as Vancouver to BLI, and more likely to be affected by heavy traffic and weather issues, especially this time of year. Not sure how border crossing delays compare.


User currently offlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1395 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 3326 times:

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 11):
If WN carries over some of the AirTran fees once all is done.

They have aligned nearly all fees other then bag fees which they are not carrying over so there are not a lot of possibilities.

Quoting dlramp4life (Reply 11):
Which is not going smoothly at all

This is simply wrong. There have been no major problems in the integration, at all. You can't compare it to any other acquisition or merger because it is completely different and new. People seem to think because its taking long that it is a failure and that is simply not true. They are taking there time so there are no major problems and because of that they have had no major problems. In conclusion... you are wrong.



You will either love or hate the airline industry. If you love it, it will get in your blood and it will never leave.
User currently offlineraddek From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 135 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 3301 times:
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Quoting airliner371 (Reply 14):

It hasn't been as bad of a merger as some portray it to be. There were some issues that needed to be resolved and WN is doing their best to get all this back on track.

Now back to the topic. The border crossing in Blaine isn't too bad. There is a truck crossing that cars can take that is less traveled and quicker to get through usually. But with Vancouver being 2 times closer to BLI than Toronto is to BUF, then why not take a shot in the dark with a few low risk routes out of there on WN? I would like to see the competition.  


User currently offlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1395 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 3266 times:

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 3):
Two completely different animals.

  

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 3):
I think they would rather just go into YVR and be done with it.

   I see WN in Canada in a few years. I would agree YVR before BLI.



You will either love or hate the airline industry. If you love it, it will get in your blood and it will never leave.
User currently offlineraddek From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 135 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 3235 times:
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Why do you think YVR before BLI? Going to YVR would be nothing but higher fares, and then having to go get governemt aproval from Canada to fly the routes you want to fly with the frequencies you would like. If AC were to in any way feel thretened by WN competition in YVR, the government of Canada would try to protect them and only give WN a limited amount of flights.

Versus BLI where WN could do whatever they wanted and be open to fly as many flights as they like without added airport fees and international taxes.

I am not saying that anything will happen obviously. But from a cost standpoint, BLI makes more sense than YVR because of the points I have made.


User currently offlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1395 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 3165 times:

Quoting raddek (Reply 17):

If it were 7-10 years ago, and they wanted to serve the area, I could understand BLI.. maybe. Todays business model is no longer to use secondary airports. Gary Kelly has also mentioned Canada recently and when WN begins to grow again and can do international service, Canada will certainly be on the list, and will be much higher then BLI.



You will either love or hate the airline industry. If you love it, it will get in your blood and it will never leave.
User currently onlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25357 posts, RR: 22
Reply 19, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 3159 times:

Quoting raddek (Reply 17):
and then having to go get governemt aproval from Canada to fly the routes you want to fly with the frequencies you would like.
WN doesn't need any government approval to operate to Canada. Canada-U.S. is an Open Skies market. Any Canadian or U.S. carriers can operate any transborder routes they want as often as they want, and with unrestricted 5th freedom beyond rights to any other countries assuming they have the same rights from the 3rd country.

[Edited 2013-02-10 20:37:22]

User currently offlineraddek From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 135 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3017 times:
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Well since there is a US-CAN Open skies, then that makes sense. I didn't think about that. But still, you can't argue that the costs would still be higher to fly in and out of YVR than BLI. Why do you think AS is pulling all their flights and only keeping LAX out of YVR? Higher Costs more than likely.

User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3151 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 2956 times:

Quoting prost (Reply 1):
and they'd be third to market.

On the heels of WN attempt to begin service at BFI a few years ago I think we will see PAE before BLI. PAE located on the north side of the city roughly splits the distance between the Seattle city center and SEA which is located fourteen or so miles south of the city.

The I-5 corridor around Seattle like most major metropolises can be a parking lot much of the day. I read a poll in the last two weeks which mentioned Seattle has the seventh worst traffic congestion of ten cities ranked in the U.S.

[Edited 2013-02-11 15:20:14]


Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3151 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 2922 times:

Quoting raddek (Reply 20):
you can't argue that the costs would still be higher to fly in and out of YVR than BLI.

The one problem I see with the Canadians flying out of BLI is the time it takes to cross the border. It's slower than it was a few years ago now that crossing the border requires a passport.

What use to take 15-30 minutes (depending on the backlog of vehicles) can take an hour these days. I've heard stories of one and a half hours And if your vehicle is selected for the random vehicle inspection you could miss your flight. http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/bwt-taf/menu-eng.html



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 3077 posts, RR: 7
Reply 23, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2906 times:

Quoting raddek (Reply 20):
Why do you think AS is pulling all their flights and only keeping LAX out of YVR? Higher Costs more than likely.

Someone else posted this in the YVR thread too. What am I missing? AFAIK, AS still serves SEA and PDX out of YVR with QX. It's been awhile now since they discontinued SFO-YVR so I'm not getting the "pulling all their flights and only keeping LAX out of YVR" reference.


User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13608 posts, RR: 61
Reply 24, posted (1 year 7 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 2853 times:
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Quoting RADDEK (Reply 12):
G4 is an airline. There are a lot people who call them a travel company when they run scheduled service to many of their markets

  

All due respect, you're somewhat off-base; their own officers are quick to point out they're a travel company and the air operations are merely one segment of their business.



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
25 Post contains images wnflyguy : Canada will not happen for at least the next 5 to 10 yrs if ever cost per flt make Canada unattractive. Even WestJet struggles with cost on all it's U
26 Raddek : With all due respect to you brother. They are an airline as well. G4 runs a scheduled service from cities such as BLI with their own planes and their
27 rampart : Why would BLI or its customers want this? Replace or eliminate competition and choice? Sounds like an emotional response. -Rampart
28 robsaw : The passport requirements and border delays have been a fact of life all the while BLI traffic has grown hugely, mostly on Canadians coming down to s
29 ouboy79 : This just shows a pure lack of understanding of who/what Allegiant is. They clearly state...they are a travel company. Bulk of their revenue comes fr
30 Post contains images EA CO AS : Not to mention their name is Allegiant Travel Company.
31 Post contains links and images Raddek : But their website is www.allegiantair.com ....keyword AIR...that is short for Airlines or Airways my brother
32 ouboy79 : Really? That is what you are going off of? *eyeroll* LOL And I'm not your brother.
33 GentFromAlaska : If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then conclusion dictates it should be a duck. G4 is an airline who like Wal Mart o
34 7BOEING7 : They are a travel company that owns and airline. Allegiant Air is an American low-cost airline owned by Allegiant Travel Co. (NASDAQ: ALGT) Allegiant
35 ouboy79 : Exactly. When AMR owned Sabre, was Sabre an airline? The parent company is a travel company that owns an airline to support itself. I really don't se
36 Post contains images raddek : Outboy79, you are not my brother. I don't know where you though that it was aimed at you. I was speaking to EA CO AS when I was making my last post. I
37 Post contains links and images EA CO AS : Look at the bottom of that website and you'll see the copyright listed as Allegiant Travel Company. Look at their press releases and they all read Al
38 GentFromAlaska : I've always been under the impression Sabre like Apollo is a technology. Not tangible as a company. AMR is a company
39 robsaw : This has gotta be the silliest argument over semantics that I have ever seen. Allegiant Air is an airline that is the topic of the thread - G4 refers
40 Post contains images Raddek : Maybe I should rename this topic now to "Is G4 an Airline or Travel Company?" lol IMHO, I think G4 uses that "we are a travel company'' more to fend o
41 ouboy79 : This is so off topic. Mods might as well just lock this thread or delete out posts that have been fixated on G4. It's pointless now.
42 jetblueguy22 : This thread has gone off topic from WN looking at BLI to a discussion about G4 and their business practices. It will locked to further posts. All post
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