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Frontier Hiring Flight Attendants In CHI And DEN  
User currently offlineTWA1985 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 650 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 6603 times:

I was just perusing for jobs (non airline related) and noticed that Frontier is hiring flight attendants to be based in Chicago as well as Denver. Kind of shocking considering the recent news from F9 on the outsourcing. I assumed that the Chicago base would eventually dwindle away with the airline's financial woes. Perhaps this is a good sign!

https://re2o.ultipro.com/rep1003B/JobBoard/JobDetails.aspx?__ID=*80D678DBE56F7906

[Edited 2013-02-10 12:08:16]

[Edited 2013-02-10 12:08:52]

[Edited 2013-02-10 12:09:57]

[Edited 2013-02-10 12:13:18]

35 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDarkSnowyNight From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1355 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 6446 times:

Quoting TWA1985 (Thread starter):
Perhaps this is a good sign!

Would have been a better sign if they'd posted those jobs internally, specifically all those agents they're about to can...



Posting without Knowledge is simply Tolerated Vandalism... We are the Vandals.
User currently offlinebeachbum1970 From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 58 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 6319 times:

Quoting DarkSnowyNight (Reply 1):
Would have been a better sign if they'd posted those jobs internally, specifically all those agents they're about to can...

Agree. The employees being furloughed should have first choice at interviewing for these FA jobs. They already know the company policies, airplanes, routes, etc. Feel so bad for those workers affected. The airlines are such a tough industry to work in, and yet it's so hard to give up...


User currently offlineantoniemey From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1555 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 6254 times:

Quoting DarkSnowyNight (Reply 1):
Would have been a better sign if they'd posted those jobs internally, specifically all those agents they're about to can...

If they operate like most companies, they probably did both.



Make something Idiot-proof, and the Universe will make a more inept idiot.
User currently offlineF9animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 5025 posts, RR: 28
Reply 4, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 6203 times:

This tells you one thing for sure. The turnover is high, especially as the fleet gets smaller. Frontier used to be a great place to work. But now, it has become a not so fun place. Morale was already rock bottom, so the outsourcing has likely caused a further drop in morale.


I Am A Different Animal!!
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25080 posts, RR: 85
Reply 5, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 6199 times:
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Quoting TWA1985 (Thread starter):
Kind of shocking considering the recent news from F9 on the outsourcing. I assumed that the base would eventually dwindle away with the airline's financial woes.

What financial woes? Frontier is operating profitably.

Quoting F9animal (Reply 4):
The turnover is high, especially as the fleet gets smaller.

The fleet has stabilised.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineHiFlyerAS From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 936 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 6175 times:

Quoting F9animal (Reply 4):
The turnover is high, especially as the fleet gets smaller.

With other airlines hiring I'm sure that FA's are starting to bail in droves. The future does not look bright for F9. Flying for a more stable company probably looks much better than sticking around until the end.


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25080 posts, RR: 85
Reply 7, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 6135 times:
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Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 6):
The future does not look bright for F9.

So - in review:

Frontier lost $20 million in Q1 2012, before the restructure started. Then in Q2:

http://www.bizjournals.com/denver/ne...ines-gives-a-lift-to.html?page=all

"Quarterly revenues specifically for Frontier Airlines rose 11.3 percent year over year, from $333.2 million in 2011 to $370.7 million in 2012. The airline posted pre-tax income of $14.1 million in second quarter 2012, compared to a $32.6 million pre-tax loss for the quarter in 2011."

And Q3:

http://www.farebuzz.com/frontier-air...-q3-2012-results.aspx#.URgiMaUii-8

"Frontier Airlines reports strong Q3 2012 results

Frontier Airlines recently announced its operations results for the third quarter ending September 30, 2012 and was quite optimistic at the strong showings.

The airline in a statement said that it posted pre-tax revenue earnings of $29.8 million for Q3 2012, a significant increase from a pre-tax loss of $1.5 million for the same period in 2011."


Q4 hasn't been posted yet, but here's the guidance, issued on December 31 2012:

http://www.jagsreport.com/2013/01/re...g-reaffirmed-by-dahlman-rose-rjet/

"As a result of higher revenues and lower costs, Frontier generated a profit margin of 2% to 3% in the quarter. The Republic Airways subsidiary is expected to report a pretax profit of $20 MM to $25MM, up from prior 4Q12 guidance of $15 MM to $20MM."

So even at the lowest end of the guidance, this would give Frontier a full year 2012 net of about $40 million.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineHiFlyerAS From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 936 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 6100 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 7):
So even at the lowest end of the guidance, this would give Frontier a full year 2012 net of about $40 million.

Generating a profit of 2-3% isn't sustainable unless there are deep pockets or foolish investors (VX). Everyone knows F9 is for sale and that Rjet wants to dump them. That is why I don't think the future is bright.


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25080 posts, RR: 85
Reply 9, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 6094 times:
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Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 8):
Generating a profit of 2-3% isn't sustainable unless there are deep pockets or foolish investors (VX). Everyone knows F9 is for sale and that Rjet wants to dump them. That is why I don't think the future is bright.

That's the margin for Q4 - the margin for Q3 was double that.

And I don't know that Frontier is "for sale." I know it is to be "separated."

Based on the FAPA agreement, the basis of this, Republic will still hold a minority interest.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1379 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 5943 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 7):

I would not consider one year of profitability, when almost all other years have been unprofitable, stable. Call me back in 2-3 years and tell me F9 has been profitable each year and then you can call them stable. WN, B6, DL, US, AS... they are stable, F9 is not stable.



You will either love or hate the airline industry. If you love it, it will get in your blood and it will never leave.
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25080 posts, RR: 85
Reply 11, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 5881 times:
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Quoting airliner371 (Reply 11):
I would not consider one year of profitability, when almost all other years have been unprofitable, stable.

When did I claim that? I have never said Frontier is "stable", I can't predict the future. I only know what is - now.

It's not so long ago that the a.net knives were out for US, for example, and I never thought that Southwest would get headlines like this:

http://articles.latimes.com/2013/feb.../la-fi-southwest-airlines-20130210

"Is Southwest Airlines losing the luv?"

mariner

[Edited 2013-02-10 17:03:12]


aeternum nauta
User currently offlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1379 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 5788 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 12):
"Is Southwest Airlines losing the luv?"

That is just biased and things like that come out about every airline.



You will either love or hate the airline industry. If you love it, it will get in your blood and it will never leave.
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25080 posts, RR: 85
Reply 13, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 5764 times:
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Quoting airliner371 (Reply 13):
That is just biased and things like that come out about every airline.

Indeed, that may be. But it was said and the quotes from customers support the thesis.

The media thinks Frontier is "for sale." A.net believes Frontier is "for sale."

I only know what has been said officially, to the SEC, as here:

http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/da.../000114420411039330/v227949_8k.htm

" Pursuant thereto, Frontier and FAPA will enter into an equity investment agreement and a profit sharing plan. Such agreements will be filed by the Company pursuant to Item 1.01 on a Current Report on Form 8-K. The commercial agreement also provides that the Company will make a good faith effort to attract equity investment(s) in Frontier that would reduce the Company's ownership of Frontier to a minority interest by December 31, 2014."

I don't see the word "sell."

mariner

[Edited 2013-02-10 17:44:29]


aeternum nauta
User currently offlineDBCooper From Brazil, joined Jun 2004, 194 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 5630 times:

Quoting beachbum1970 (Reply 2):
The employees being furloughed should have first choice at interviewing for these FA jobs.

What makes you think a customer service agent wants to be a flight attendant?


- DBC


User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3108 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 5602 times:

Quoting DBCooper (Reply 15):
What makes you think a customer service agent wants to be a flight attendant?


It happens quite a bit. F/A pay is quite a bit better. And there is the travel bennie



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlineantoniemey From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1555 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 5529 times:

Quoting DBCooper (Reply 14):
What makes you think a customer service agent wants to be a flight attendant?

Some do, some don't. It's far easier to get in the door at an airline at the CS or Ramp level than going straight to an FA position, so often someone seeking to be an FA will work CS until an FA hiring run occurs.



Make something Idiot-proof, and the Universe will make a more inept idiot.
User currently offlineATLflyer323 From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 614 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 5469 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 5):
The fleet has stabilised.

Are all of the E190's set to leave the fleet? If so I would not say that the fleet has "stabilized" quite yet.

-ATLFlyer323



Everyday, the fluffy temptation of wheat!
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25080 posts, RR: 85
Reply 18, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 5455 times:
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Quoting ATLflyer323 (Reply 18):
Are all of the E190's set to leave the fleet? If so I would not say that the fleet has "stabilized" quite yet.

Yes, the last four are going - but the plan is that they stay in the fleet until at least September.

Meanwhile the plan is some replacement Airbus aircraft are coming in. Last I heard, N954FR is due in May, for example.

mariner

[Edited 2013-02-10 19:30:27]


aeternum nauta
User currently offlinesmoot4208 From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 1298 posts, RR: 12
Reply 19, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 5161 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 19):
Yes, the last four are going - but the plan is that they stay in the fleet until at least September.

Meanwhile the plan is some replacement Airbus aircraft are coming in. Last I heard, N954FR is due in May, for example.

This could end being like the Q400s. Republic owns he E190s so if they don't have a buyer come September, they could decide to leave them on.


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25080 posts, RR: 85
Reply 20, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 5114 times:
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Quoting smoot4208 (Reply 20):
This could end being like the Q400s. Republic owns he E190s so if they don't have a buyer come September, they could decide to leave them on.

Could be.

BB said they're staying "at least until September" but the plan is that they go at some point and that Frontier becomes an all-Airbus airline by separation.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlinesmoot4208 From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 1298 posts, RR: 12
Reply 21, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 4980 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 21):
Could be.

BB said they're staying "at least until September" but the plan is that they go at some point and that Frontier becomes an all-Airbus airline by separation.

N166HQ, N168HQ, N170HQ, N172HQ, and N174HQ are the 5 that have/will go back to US. 2 went to Myanma Airways in December. Of the 10 remaining, 2 I believe are still in the Midwest colors and 1 is in the generic Republic colors.


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25080 posts, RR: 85
Reply 22, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 4916 times:
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Quoting smoot4208 (Reply 22):
N166HQ, N168HQ, N170HQ, N172HQ, and N174HQ are the 5 that have/will go back to US. 2 went to Myanma Airways in December. Of the 10 remaining, 2 I believe are still in the Midwest colors and 1 is in the generic Republic colors.

And five are flying under the Republic contract with Caesar's?

http://investor.caesars.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=716450

"Republic Airways Holdings Inc. (NASDAQ: RJET) and Caesars Entertainment Corporation (NASDAQ: CZR) today signed a three-year contract under which Republic's Republic Airlines subsidiary will operate five Embraer E190 aircraft to provide more than 1,500 flights annually for Caesars' customers throughout the United States."


mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineDarkSnowyNight From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1355 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 4320 times:

Quoting DBCooper (Reply 14):
What makes you think a customer service agent wants to be a flight attendant?

The same thing that makes me think they don't want to be unemployed. You're right to say that not everyone would be interested, but given a shot at that vs being told to hit the bricks, I know what I'd do. On top of that, it would be a decent Olive Branch from the company and put a little more sincerity behind the whole "This was a really tough decision to make" mantra.

Quoting antoniemey (Reply 3):

If they operate like most companies, they probably did both.

They may very well have. I was just expressing sentiment really.



Posting without Knowledge is simply Tolerated Vandalism... We are the Vandals.
User currently offlineMSYtristar From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 6552 posts, RR: 51
Reply 24, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 4213 times:

I'm surprised they weren't posted internally. They are getting rid of 700 people who at least know what makes the airline tick. Clearly not all or probably most would go for the F/A jobs, but I dare say a good number would. So, it's surprising...but in a way not surprising given the current leadership.

User currently offlinefloridaflyboy From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 2010 posts, RR: 0
Reply 25, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 4006 times:

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 24):
I'm surprised they weren't posted internally. They are getting rid of 700 people who at least know what makes the airline tick.
Quoting DarkSnowyNight (Reply 23):
They may very well have. I was just expressing sentiment really.

Can we stop with this drama? ALL jobs at F9 and RJET are posted internally. There is an internal job board and an external job board. A job may be posted on both, but is ALWAYS posted to the internal board. Apps come across marked as internal candidates. I would imagine there will in fact be many CSA's transitioning to FA in the coming months.



Good goes around!
User currently offlinestlgph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9328 posts, RR: 25
Reply 26, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3645 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 13):
The commercial agreement also provides that the Company will make a good faith effort to attract equity investment(s) in Frontier that would reduce the Company's ownership of Frontier to a minority interest by December 31, 2014."

I don't see the word "sell."

Uh ... it states "reduce the company's ownership of Frontier to a minority interest." That's market talk for selling out shares and don't try to even dance around some excuse that it isn't.



Eternal darkness we all should dread. It's hard to party when you're dead.
User currently offlineXEspecialist From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 33 posts, RR: 0
Reply 27, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 3530 times:

Quoting stlgph (Reply 26):
Uh ... it states "reduce the company's ownership of Frontier to a minority interest." That's market talk for selling out shares and don't try to even dance around some excuse that it isn't.

Try again. The definition of 'minority interest' (from the first source I found, there are MANY others) states:

"A significant but non-controlling ownership of less than 50% of a company's voting shares by either an investor or another company."

BIG stretch to say that they are "selling" the company.



Ready. Set. Jet. XEspecialist
User currently offlineChannex101 From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2008, 26 posts, RR: 0
Reply 28, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 3483 times:

While I think any company should do the best it can to redeploy as many people as possible to other positions I don't agree that they should just be given any role.

The requirements for CS staff on ground are often different from F/A requirements, and certainly for other departments such as the ramp.

My employer did this, and the people they just made into F/As just to give them are job are not the most suited to the position.
Ramp guys are not recruited for their customer service skills, so dumping them into flying would be wrong!

I'm just saying, why does everyone assume you can just be pushed into being a F/A, its not suited for everyone and nit everyone is suited to be one

[Edited 2013-02-11 09:00:52]

User currently offlineXEspecialist From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 33 posts, RR: 0
Reply 29, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 3437 times:

Quoting Channex101 (Reply 28):
I'm just saying, why does everyone assume you can just be pushed into being a F/A like just a

Just like a....?

Doze off at the controls there?   



Ready. Set. Jet. XEspecialist
User currently offlineChannex101 From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2008, 26 posts, RR: 0
Reply 30, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 3357 times:

Quoting XEspecialist (Reply 29):

Ha! Sorry, been on a block of 4am starts think I dozed off myself mid text!


User currently offlinestlgph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9328 posts, RR: 25
Reply 31, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 3229 times:

Quoting XEspecialist (Reply 27):
BIG stretch to say that they are "selling" the company.

Not at all. When you're savvy enough to become a Wall Street market technician, get back to me.



Eternal darkness we all should dread. It's hard to party when you're dead.
User currently offlinem11stephen From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 1247 posts, RR: 1
Reply 32, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 3223 times:

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 15):
It happens quite a bit. F/A pay is quite a bit better. And there is the travel bennie

At most carriers CSA's and F/As make about the same amount of money. CSA's also receive the same travel privileges as F/As.

Quoting Channex101 (Reply 28):
The requirements for CS staff on ground are often different from F/A requirements, and certainly for other departments such as the ramp.

The roles of CSA and F/As are actually very similar and the requirements are also similar. Yes, there is definitely more competition for F/A positions than there is for airport CS positions. One takes care of customers on the ground and the other takes care of customers in the air.



My opinions, statements, etc. are my own and do not have any association with those of any employer.
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25080 posts, RR: 85
Reply 33, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 3186 times:
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Quoting stlgph (Reply 26):
Uh ... it states "reduce the company's ownership of Frontier to a minority interest." That's market talk for selling out shares and don't try to even dance around some excuse that it isn't.


The Murdoch family hold a minority of News Corporation. But it is a controlling minority interest and I don't think anyone would say they have "sold" News Corp.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/49436340/Murd...ins_Shareholder_Proposals_Rejected

"News Corp. 's annual shareholder meeting delivered another win for the Murdoch family, despite growing investor opposition to the family's control over the company."

A motion to eliminate the company's two-tier voting structure was also unsuccessful. This structure perpetuates Murdoch control, since the family owns 12 percent of shares but controls 40 percent of the votes. "


The control is possible because of other - allied - shareholders. I note that the same FAPA agreement calls for the Frontier pilots to be given an "equity stake" in the separated Frontier, and a later agreement gave the f'/a's a similar stake.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineChannex101 From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2008, 26 posts, RR: 0
Reply 34, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 2964 times:

Quoting m11stephen (Reply 32):

I was kind of aiming it at the ramp staff and such, i know ground CS are pretty much similar but you cant assume just because you do customer service on ground you can do it in the air, some people who are used to sitting at a computer screen on check in all day might not want to spend 12hrs on their feet for 4 sectors.

I come from working on the ground, and yes its customer service, but in a different way


User currently offlineAntoniemey From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1555 posts, RR: 4
Reply 35, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 2607 times:

Quoting m11stephen (Reply 32):
At most carriers CSA's and F/As make about the same amount of money. CSA's also receive the same travel privileges as F/As.

F/A's receive a higher rate of pay, but fewer "working" hours (yes, I know, that doesn't reflect how much they actually are working). Still, for a part-time CS Agent, shifting to F/A could easily be a net pay increase for a similar, though not the same, type and amount of work.

It depends and will vary based on many factors. Not everyone will want to pursue it. Still less will actually be accepted. But, it is an option.



Make something Idiot-proof, and the Universe will make a more inept idiot.
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