Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
777-x Less Than A Year Away?  
User currently offlinerotating14 From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 642 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 13252 times:

While much of our focus is on the battery issues of the 787, the 787-10 has not been brought up, nor the 777-x . But now we hear from EK exec Tim Clark (TC) saying that they expect to see a design freeze (or something close to it) on the new 777-x sooner than later. Between 6-9 months from now he says. Granted is TC but he is the largest buyer of the type and a vocal advocate along with Mr Walsh from BA to develop and bring the new 777 type sooner than later.

My question is are the battery issues accelerating the development of the 777-x?? Last we heard the 777-x was on the back burner and Boeing wanted to develop and freeze a design for the -10. Thoughts??

http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSBRE91902E20130210?irpc=932

14 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12427 posts, RR: 25
Reply 1, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 13180 times:

Quoting rotating14 (Thread starter):
My question is are the battery issues accelerating the development of the 777-x??

I'd tend to doubt that. If anything they are stealing experts who could be working on 777X to help solve the 787 problem, because urgent customer satisfaction issues take priority over new product development, at least at all the companies I've worked for. The real issue is how many such experts are available to be stolen, which may not be a large number, unless Boeing is treating the 787 as an "all hands on deck" issue where every resource possible gets stolen, even if they end up working on some aspect of the battery issue that is outside their expertise.

So it seems Mr Clark is being overly optimistic, or perhaps he's been told that Boeing's initial 777X estimate was pessimistic and it'll be on offer sooner rather than later.

[Edited 2013-02-10 14:42:39]


Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently onlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30889 posts, RR: 87
Reply 2, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 13077 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Maybe TC is ready to place a launch order so Boeing is moving up the timeline.


Quoting rotating14 (Thread starter):
My question is are the battery issues accelerating the development of the 777-x?

It should have no impact. I expect the 777X to use the same NiCad batteries the 777 does so there would be no need to pull engineers off that project to assist the 787 team.


User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8329 posts, RR: 7
Reply 3, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 12857 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

The "new" in the new 777X-9 is going to be wings and engines plus a few other minor things. It would be helpful if Boeing increases the diameter of the airplane by 8 or 9 inches.

User currently offlineSEPilot From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 6883 posts, RR: 46
Reply 4, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 12785 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 3):
It would be helpful if Boeing increases the diameter of the airplane by 8 or 9 inches.

That is not going to happen-the fuselage diameter is one of the most difficult metrics to change. A different diameter usually means a clean sheet design. They CAN make the sidewalls thinner with better insulation and sidewall materials-but that will only give them maybe 2 inches on each side.



The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
User currently offlinephxa340 From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 886 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 12653 times:

Quoting Revelation (Reply 1):
If anything they are stealing experts who could be working on 777X to help solve the 787 problem

I understand your logic on this one however I would assume only engineers that would be able to contribute (Electrical etc) would be pulled. The rest of the engineers can continue working on the 777X design as they wouldn't be able to help with the 787 woes anyways.

Boeing needs some big good things to happen this year so maybe TC can put his money down and Boeing can formally launch in Q3 or Q4.


User currently offlineJAAlbert From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1573 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 10669 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 2):
I expect the 777X to use the same NiCad batteries the 777 does so there would be no need to pull engineers off that project to assist the 787 team.

I thought Boeing had outsourced the design of the 787 battery, rather than design it in house, which is believed to be part of the problem with that battery.


User currently online817Dreamliiner From Montserrat, joined Jul 2008, 2304 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 10506 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 3):
The "new" in the new 777X-9 is going to be wings and engines plus a few other minor things. It would be helpful if Boeing increases the diameter of the airplane by 8 or 9 inches.

Actually they will by 4 inches by doing this:

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 4):
They CAN make the sidewalls thinner with better insulation and sidewall materials-but that will only give them maybe 2 inches on each side.

Read this on a flightgloabl article



Reality be Rent. Synapse, break! Vanishment, This World!
User currently offlineMax Q From United States of America, joined May 2001, 4445 posts, RR: 19
Reply 8, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 10226 times:

It is a good idea for Boeing to 'carve out' some extra width from the 777 but I don't see how it will make any noticeable difference to seat comfort.


Its less than half an inch per seat, they would probably be better off widening the aisles, it would 'feel' more spacious, improve accessibility and most importantly make an emergency evacuation a lot easier.



The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
User currently offlinencfc99 From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 739 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 10001 times:

Quoting Revelation (Reply 1):
So it seems Mr Clark is being overly optimistic, or perhaps he's been told that Boeing's initial 777X estimate was pessimistic and it'll be on offer sooner rather than later.

The quote below, whilst not official, matches the timeline TC is indicating. The quote was made in November (3months ago) that the 777X will be at least a year away, now TC is stating 6-9months, which is about a year.


"Boeing appears to be at least a year away from offering a new version of the 777, Reuters reported in November, quoting people familiar with talks between the aircraft maker and its customers"

It does say at least a year, so maybe this is a veiled hurry up from TC as he is ready to order some aircraft in Q4 this year (let me order the 777X or we'll order from somewhere else).


User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 12427 posts, RR: 25
Reply 10, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 6944 times:

Quoting phxa340 (Reply 5):
I understand your logic on this one however I would assume only engineers that would be able to contribute (Electrical etc) would be pulled. The rest of the engineers can continue working on the 777X design as they wouldn't be able to help with the 787 woes anyways.

Again, I have no direct knowledge and have never worked for Boeing, but I have been a part of "all hands on deck" efforts where people were drafted into crisis situations without regard to their area of expertise. Usually the draftees did "grunt work" that any competent engineer should be able to do with a bit of supervision, like running or overseeing testing, while the "experts" focused on things like analyzing the data, deciding which data to gather next, etc. It's typically not at all popular with the draftees or the experts, but management wants to be seen to be "doing something" about the problem. As above, it's typical that the draftees come from products not yet released because those don't have hard deadlines yet.

I have no idea if this is what is happening at Boeing, but I do read reports of the "hundreds of engineers" that Boeing is applying to the 787 crisis and wonder where they all came from. Clearly a program like 777X would not be halted due to the 787 crisis, but it clearly could be asked to lend some resources to help with the 787 crisis.



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineytz From Canada, joined Jun 2009, 1988 posts, RR: 24
Reply 11, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 6754 times:

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 4):
That is not going to happen-the fuselage diameter is one of the most difficult metrics to change. A different diameter usually means a clean sheet design. They CAN make the sidewalls thinner with better insulation and sidewall materials-but that will only give them maybe 2 inches on each side.

From a pax perspective, something better than nothing.

Quoting Max Q (Reply 8):
It is a good idea for Boeing to 'carve out' some extra width from the 777 but I don't see how it will make any noticeable difference to seat comfort.

Its less than half an inch per seat, they would probably be better off widening the aisles, it would 'feel' more spacious, improve accessibility and most importantly make an emergency evacuation a lot easier.

When you have 17" seats with 10-abreast layouts, an extra half inch is sincerely welcome relief. Wider aisles would also be welcome. Something better than nothing.


User currently offlineDarkSnowyNight From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1355 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 6602 times:

Quoting 817Dreamliiner (Reply 7):

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 4):
They CAN make the sidewalls thinner with better insulation and sidewall materials-but that will only give them maybe 2 inches on each side.

Read this on a flightgloabl article

Good. Any much more is practically begging the airlines to add yet another seat to the cross section.



Posting without Knowledge is simply Tolerated Vandalism... We are the Vandals.
User currently offlineBurkhard From Germany, joined Nov 2006, 4395 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 6450 times:

If any consequence, I could see some Engineering capacities to be free form 787-9 and ten as Long as it is not clear what the future of the 788 is.
But TC is known to speak a lot, but rarely anything that makes sense...


User currently offlineEPA001 From Netherlands, joined Sep 2006, 4721 posts, RR: 39
Reply 14, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2629 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Burkhard (Reply 13):
But TC is known to speak a lot, but rarely anything that makes sense...

Well, he is running a very successful airline, so anything he says is meaningful in one way or the other. Sometimes he has exaggerated things politically, but usually his remarks are telling. And the industry usually listens. But not always.  


Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
A380's Crucial Evacuation Less Than 2 Days Away posted Fri Mar 24 2006 19:12:29 by PlaneHunter
IB Unions Announce "no Less Than 5 Days Of Strike" posted Fri Feb 1 2013 06:44:54 by Gonzalo
Vision Pulls Out Of TOL After Less Than A Month posted Thu Jun 21 2012 10:21:59 by KarlB737
DL 777 ATL - LAX Year Round? posted Fri Jul 3 2009 12:08:15 by Cloudboy
AE DAL-ORD Flights Less Than 50% Full In Aug posted Fri Sep 19 2008 09:08:36 by LoneStarMike
Airbus SAS Valued At "less Than Zero" posted Fri May 23 2008 07:55:14 by BA380841
TGZ/CUN-T3/MEX-T2/GDL-T2/PVR-TS/+ In Less Than 2yr posted Sat Mar 29 2008 03:14:59 by MayaviaERJ190
Air Marshals On Less Than 1% Of All Flights! posted Tue Mar 25 2008 07:11:21 by Elite
Will 2007 Be A 777 Record Sales Year? (Ver. 2) posted Thu Nov 22 2007 08:06:22 by OldAeroGuy
Finnair Long-haul Punctuality Less Than 50%? posted Tue Nov 13 2007 09:37:11 by FFlyer