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DL JFK-GEO Gets The Axe  
User currently offlineOOer From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1440 posts, RR: 2
Posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 13450 times:

http://www.demerarawaves.com/index.p...s-georgetown-new-york-flights.html

"Delta Airlines has decided to pull out of Guyana, ending its five year old direct charter service between New York and Georgetown, well-placed sources said."

85 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinemesaflyguy From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 2493 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 13443 times:
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Can't say I'm surprised. Seems like a 75E wasn't a great plane for the route to begin with.


\________(---)________/ :) World's most beautiful aircraft: 757-200, MD-88/90, E-190, A321
User currently offlineOOer From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1440 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 13361 times:

Why wasn't the 75E a great plane for it?

User currently offlinemesaflyguy From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 2493 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 13367 times:
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I don't know if it was a very business-heavy route. It seemed like a domestic 757 would've been better. But that is only my thought, I could be completely off base.


\________(---)________/ :) World's most beautiful aircraft: 757-200, MD-88/90, E-190, A321
User currently offlineOOer From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1440 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 13301 times:

A 757 was originally used but was constantly weight restricted because of heavy cargo loads. At times DL even put a 767 on the route.

User currently offlinemesaflyguy From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 2493 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 13214 times:
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Quoting OOer (Reply 4):

See, I didn't know that. Thanks!  



\________(---)________/ :) World's most beautiful aircraft: 757-200, MD-88/90, E-190, A321
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 16949 posts, RR: 48
Reply 6, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 13167 times:

BW always owned the market with aggressive fares, but I thought they were still good enough for DL. Guess not.


E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineIrishAyes From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2088 posts, RR: 15
Reply 7, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 12539 times:

what do they mean by charter route


next flights: msp-phx-slc, msp-mdw, ord-sju, sju-dfw-ord, msp-dfw, dfw-phl, phl-msp, jfk-icn, icn-hkg-bkk-cdg
User currently offlineTdan From United States of America, joined Nov 2011, 394 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 12324 times:

Surprising that it didn't work out for DL as the fares seemed to be pretty good. It's a tough market because the traffic is so concentrated and more or less controlled by a few travel agencies. As a result, the route has been an airline graveyard since carriers have very little leverage to generate profits. Just as Mav points out, BW has owned this traffic forever and they can be more aggressive in price since they supplement it with POS traffic.

Additionally, traffic isn't exactly growing and the market seems to be aging a bit.



We will ride this thunderbird, silver shadows on the earth, a thousand leagues away our land of birth... -Captain Bruce
User currently offlineguyanam From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 1263 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 12176 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 6):

Actually BW didnot "always" own the JFK GEO market. They built market share by offering more flights (when they went double daily), lower airfares, and more liberal baggage allowances. With nonstops, instead of via POS) they have now cemented this.

BW was usually the least preferred option (when there was DL and another service by a charter) as the competition offered nonstops, while they offered a POS stop.

Low fares that both BW and DL offered to fend off Ezjet, and now continued low fares by BW to ensure that its nonstops are full) is probably what drove DL off.

What used to be a high yield route US$700-800 in NON PEAK periods, has become much lower yielding.

[Edited 2013-02-11 12:24:18]

User currently offlineOOer From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1440 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 12156 times:

It's interesting that apparently this route is not profitable.

I just looked up fares online just to see.

JFK-GEO R/T on 4/22-4/29 = $601 (2,539 miles)

JFK-LAX R/T on 4/22-4/29 = $327 (2,475 miles)

Same distance, same equipment, GEO staffed with 1 less flight attendant (Savings of about $300 each way for Delta), fares on GEO about double what they are on LAX, and the route isn't profitable?

I think something else is going on. If it walks like a duck, sounds like a duck, and smells like a duck...


User currently offlineguyanam From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 1263 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 12037 times:

Quoting OOer (Reply 10):

Remember that there are many on the LAX route who pay way more than the lowest coach fare as many travel upfront, or need fares that allow flexibility as they travel on business.

GEO every one pays the listed fare, except when the plane is full, as it is basically expat Guyanese returning home on visits. DL needs to match BW, which needs to fill is 221 seats on its nonstop as Trinis arenot likely to use bthat flight.

DL used to charge 50% more and so apparently have decided that, with the route no longer high yielding, it no longer makes sense.


User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 16949 posts, RR: 48
Reply 12, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 12034 times:

Quoting guyanam (Reply 9):
Actually BW didnot "always" own the JFK GEO market

It has owned the market for years, before, during, and after DL (and EZ, who I forgot and/or blinked) offered nonstops.

Quoting guyanam (Reply 9):
BW was usually the least preferred option

Clearly it's quite preferred as even with a nonstop on DL it still commands the majority of the market

Quoting OOer (Reply 10):

Same distance, same equipment, GEO staffed with 1 less flight attendant (Savings of about $300 each way for Delta), fares on GEO about double what they are on LAX, and the route isn't profitable?

   My hunch is two things: 1) the LAX market has some very high fare walkups/corporate traffic that GEO definitely does not outside of peak season traffic and 2) you're not seeing the consolidator/off tariff fares that may be what most of the passengers may be buying.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineairfrancejfk From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 480 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 11903 times:

Sad but not surprising. Delta really hasn't changed its operations since starting ops to GEO 5 years ago, while BW has gone from once to twice daily from JFK with non stop flights included as well. The nonstop thing was Delta's main drawing point and BW is matching and surpassing then point for point. Include BW's variety of flights both direct, nonstop and connections via POS along with a more lenient baggage allowance and you have your answer. BW's additional feed from POS is a huge money maker for them on the route as is their ability to uplift fuel at a much lower fee than is available in GEO.

Lets also not forget that the Guyana government officially gave flag carrier status to BW a few months back and the writing was pretty much on the wall. Still, sad to see GEO go back to a one airline operation.


User currently offlineguyanam From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 1263 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 11722 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 12):

Maverick I am Guyanese and I am quite aware of which airline Guyanese used. The JFK GEO route is a 2 carrier route. In days past when ever a third carrier entered the market with nonstp charters the airline which suffered was BWIA. Why? because of its dreaded POS stop which Guyanese despised..


I do not know if you have a Caribbean background but I can discuss the "But Will It Arrive", "Be Waiting Indefinietly at Airport", "BetterWalk If Able", that drove many away from the old BWIA. This including Guyanese, who had the additional issue of the cruelty endured at Piarco at the hands of BWIAground and T&T officials. This when ever BWIA decided to dump them when a plane, that was supposed to go to JFK with a stop in POS, was suddenly diverted upon arrival at POS. Leaving Guyanese stranded and having to sleep ON THE GROUND. Not only was I told this by Guyanese, but even BWEE staff who I met mentioned this. They because they then had to handle irate passengers because of factors beyond their control.

BWIA dominated the overall market into GEO but not the JFK market, except in short periods when various fly by night charters collapsed.

In fact the reason for Carib Air aggressively going after EZjet was in realization of previous times when the previous BWIA was complacent and suffered. When Universal came in, they pushed out BWIA out of the JFK GEO. Ditto when Travelspan came in. NORTH AMERICAN became the leading carrier to GEO from JFK before they pulled out.

Caribbean Air aggressively countered Ez by cutting fares and introducing nonstops. They did so at great cost as the wet lease expenses and the sharp drop in fares must have hurt them. They have achieved their goal which was killing off Ezjet and have a bonus with the withdrawal of DL.


Note that BWIA had 16 flights per week out of JFK with decent numbers going into BGI and ANU. Carib Air, with no service to those two islands, is carrying 50% more on its E/Caribbean routes, much of this due to increased traffic into GEO ex JFK. .While there has been some increase in TOTAL JFK GEO traffic, it isnt up 50%.

Quoting airfrancejfk (Reply 13):

This is exactly the point. The NEW BW did things that the OLD BWIA did not do and as a result now dominate the JFK GEO route, which means that for the FIRST time, they will likely have a monopoly on that route....that is untl some other lunatic thinks that they can start another fly by night.


User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26509 posts, RR: 58
Reply 15, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 11596 times:

Im surprised they held on for 5 years ! Guyana-USA/Canada is a very hard route to maintain.

Quoting guyanam (Reply 14):
Why? because of its dreaded POS stop which Guyanese despised..

Indeed my relatives always hated POS transit.

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 7):
what do they mean by charter route

Typo/error . It was scheduled.

Still its a shame that a major carrier such as DL and a major Alliance member will pull out it is certainly bad news for GEO.



AEGEAN-OLYMPIC AIR - ΟΛΥΜΠΙΑΚΗ " μέλος στη Star Alliance
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 16949 posts, RR: 48
Reply 16, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 11192 times:

Quoting guyanam (Reply 14):
Maverick I am Guyanese and I am quite aware of which airline Guyanese used. The JFK GEO route is a 2 carrier route. In days past when ever a third carrier entered the market with nonstp charters the airline which suffered was BWIA. Why? because of its dreaded POS stop which Guyanese despised..

Believe me, I've heard this story a million times before, whether it's every Latin American saying how awful AA is, or PIT pax wishing for an alternative to US, or any number of markets where people are just clamoring for competition. And what happens? People don't put their money where their mouth is, and continue flying the incumbent carrier. People may not like BW, and I don't doubt that, but they certainly haven't stopped flying BW (or AA or US or whatever) either. Since 2008 BW has had well over half of the market, regardless of any other nonstop, so no matter how much people despise it, the overwhelming majority of them are giving BW their money.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineBigMac From Suriname, joined Nov 2003, 318 posts, RR: 10
Reply 17, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 10984 times:

Quoting guyanam (Reply 14):
that is untl some other lunatic thinks that they can start another fly by night.

That will be PY I guess...  
They are planning on starting a non stop GEO-JFK route this year (with a 737?). They were/are supposed to receive a 3rd 737 this spring (I think I read in January but it's already mid February so)...



To fly, or not to fly: that is the question
User currently offlineguyanam From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 1263 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 10570 times:

Quoting MaverickM11
(Reply 16):


With maybe 100k passengers traveling between JFK/FLL/MIA and GEo it isnt a bad route, especially as most are out of JFK. It just cant support more than 2 carriers.

Now you modify your statement to "since 2008". That is very different from saying that they "Always", because then you would have to have included the period between 2002-2007 when they (BWIA) was a distant third on the JFK GEO.


So by 2008.

1. The Old BWIA was dead. Caribbean Airlines replaced them. The new BW has a much better on time performance, while maintaining the OLD BWIA's Caribbean ambience (warm and friendly, even in coach).

2. The assorted charters which serviced and dominated the JFK GEO (North American and Universal or Travelspan, depending on which year) were gone.

DL charged higher fares than BW and had stricter baggage, so soon lost the number 1 that North American had. And since last year they lost their main claim which was being the only credible airline with nonstops on the JFK GEO. Along the way BW increased its service to double daily vs DL with its 4X weekly and on Tu/We/Th (not popular days) plus Sunday.


DL was also more interested in high yield, rather than market share, so charged more than BW, knowing that many (40-45%) would pay the premium for the convenience of avoiding POS.


Now with nonstops on the days when people want to travel, Th/Sa/Sun, DL is history, now being the #2, so having to match the fare sof the #1. They decided to exit instead.


User currently offlinemartinrpo1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 63 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 10547 times:

I think AA should try it from MIA. MIA-PMB and MIA-GEO could work well in AA metal.

User currently offlinejetlanta From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 3147 posts, RR: 35
Reply 20, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 9144 times:

Quoting OOer (Reply 10):

It's interesting that apparently this route is not profitable.

I just looked up fares online just to see.

JFK-GEO R/T on 4/22-4/29 = $601 (2,539 miles)

JFK-LAX R/T on 4/22-4/29 = $327 (2,475 miles)

Same distance, same equipment, GEO staffed with 1 less flight attendant (Savings of about $300 each way for Delta), fares on GEO about double what they are on LAX, and the route isn't profitable?

I think something else is going on. If it walks like a duck, sounds like a duck, and smells like a duck...

Man, that is completely not that way to analyze performance.

DOT average one-way fare for Delta in 3Q13 was $241 for JFK-LAX. JFK-GEO was less than 10% higher. However, Delta has massive economies of scale in the LAX that it does not have in GEO. Delta Load Factors for JFK-LAX were also over 8 points higher for YE Oct13. The other major factor at play here is that JFK-LAX has significant online and interline international connections at both ends. Pro-rated segment fares for these paxs likely greatly exceed the local fares. JFK-GEO, on the other hand, is primarily local traffic.

Also, Delta operates several daily flights in the JFK-LAX, some of which are going to be under-performers due to timing. This can affect overall market performance, but not impact the strategic necessity to keep the flying. Red-eyes are a great example of flying that brings down the average. On the other hand, the JFK-GEO schedule is the best its going to get.


User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 16949 posts, RR: 48
Reply 21, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 8751 times:

Quoting guyanam (Reply 18):

Now you modify your statement to "since 2008".

I meant it as BW was 'always' flying a strong JFKGEO schedule, whether nonstop or via POS, while DL was flying the flight, as well as before. Regardless, the point is that despite how much people 'hate' BW and POS, they are pretty much flocking to BW versus the nonstop.

Quoting jetlanta (Reply 20):

Man, that is completely not that way to analyze performance.

With a little context, it's a useful data point. But it's interesting you bring up JFKLAX, because I'm fairly confident DL is losing its shirt on both JFKGEO and JFKLAX. However, whereas GEO is almost 100% local and cutting it does nothing to the network, JFKLAX is an important component of the network that DL can't really afford not to fly.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlinejetlanta From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 3147 posts, RR: 35
Reply 22, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 8460 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 21):
With a little context, it's a useful data point. But it's interesting you bring up JFKLAX, because I'm fairly confident DL is losing its shirt on both JFKGEO and JFKLAX. However, whereas GEO is almost 100% local and cutting it does nothing to the network, JFKLAX is an important component of the network that DL can't really afford not to fly.

But there wasn't any context. You can't take a random internet search fare and make ANY sort of reasonable assumptions about route performance. Its not remotely defensible from an analytical perspective.

I'm relatively confident that JFKLAX is a stronger performer than you think, but I think your point about network importance is totally accurate.


User currently onlineFlyDeltaJets From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1787 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 8307 times:

When I left DL in 2009 that flight's number 1 problem was over booking. There was a nightly over-sale of at least 10 passengers. I can't say with certainty but if you bump 10 people every night from your flight that is not going to make for happy customers.


The only valid opinions are those based in facts
User currently offlinelychemsa From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 1067 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 7910 times:

North American pulled out. Guyana Airways went bankrupt.

A friend from Guyana prefers Delta over Caribbean Airways. Said it was awful and would only fly Delta next time.

She will be disappointed.


25 peanuts : Can we just call it what it is...er...was without having to get analytical every time? It was simply an odd ball route. And to even compare a route li
26 guyanam : Delta had a deliberate strategy of underserving the JFK GEO market, which meant that even in low periods their flights were full. This was to allow t
27 bobnwa : Please explain what in the hell you mean.
28 MaverickM11 : So everyone hates BW, but DL didn't add enough seats, DL had 'rudimentary' inflight service, and they all flew BW anyway in spite of their whinging a
29 abrelosojos : = You do realize that BWIA is still subsidized and does unfair competition. They pay 60c (or something similarly absurd) for fuel. Saludos, Alex[Edit
30 guyanam : I made my points perfectly clear about where BWIA was up to its demise in 2006. The charters (including North American) dominated the JFK GEO route.
31 usflyer msp : I am not getting it. If DL artificially restricted capacity so that they could charge more...why are they pulling out because of unprofitability? Tha
32 abrelosojos : = I am a little confused again. Remind me again why DL restricted capacity with 90% loads and still could not generate a profit? Saludos, Alex
33 yellowtail : There is more to this route axing than loads.... Yes, please explain.....i can't seem to wrap my head around the logic. Yep, BW will surely put up the
34 sq_ek_freak : Pardon the ignorance, but is this a route a JetBlue A320 can do, and do it profitably? Is it something that JetBlue would look into or is Georgetown t
35 NASBWI : Mileage-wise, JFK-GEO is within B6's range capabilities (albeit a bit of a stretch). With added cargo, it might not be feasible without a penalty. Gi
36 yellowtail : GEO is just barely outside the range of a 320 from JFK once you allow for holding at JFK etc. route will have to wait for the NEO
37 Post contains images MaverickM11 : This is just insane. EZjet lasted, what, a blink of an eye? Maybe two? I just assume everything in/around the Caribbean is cozy with their respective
38 guyanam : You make points scoffing at mine without offering any of your own. Interested in hearing from you about why CAL introduced nonstops as soon as Ezjet
39 MaverickM11 : You make zero sense. You say everyone hates BW but clearly everyone flies them. You say DL didn't serve the market adequately but they were running v
40 Post contains links cokepopper : Slow to confirm "Delta Airlines has not made an official announcement with regard to the Guyana/JFK route… we have not confirmed any flights as of M
41 guyanam : Do you know any Guyanese by the way? Your remarks tell me that you dont as horror stories by Guyanese intransit at POS can fill volumes and the thing
42 MaverickM11 : Not a one. And yet they all almost exclusively fly BW. Yep, and you'll never guess who they'd put me on when I tried booking JFKGEO. And yet all thos
43 Post contains links JA : From the horse's mouth: http://www.demerarawaves.com/index.p...-performanceq-guyana-us-route.html Delta Air Lines will close its station in Georgetown
44 guyanam : I did note that you do not know any Guyanese. Maybe you ought to let those who know about Guyana talk about it. In fact BW had 2 flights daily with a
45 JA : That begs the question: is more capacity really needed?
46 caribbean484 : Before this conversation goes any further, it should be noted that last year according to the DOT CAL in a three way fight had the largest market-sha
47 Post contains images MaverickM11 : Clearly Guyanese are avoiding the hated carrier like the plague. Oh wait... You are just missing the plain obvious truth that given multiple choices,
48 JA : Did the DOT stats include EZjet? Public charters are not required to report per se.
49 MaverickM11 : I'm pretty sure public charters show up in a lot of different data sources; private charters do not.
50 guyanam : Hating POS is not the same as hating BW you ought to know. BW now offers nonstops to GEO from JFK and BGI to satisfy the many who hate POS stops. Cle
51 MaverickM11 : LOL I'm just looking at the data, which tells me EZjet is a non factor: they operated 50 roundtrips in the first 7 months of 2012 vs DL's 140+ and BW
52 trintocan : So DL end their GEO adventure. Before I decided to reply to this thread I though that perhaps it would be useful to put a little history into perspect
53 Post contains images OA260 : Great post and you explained it very well.
54 guyanam : Good information. The Guyana govt reports that DL has had fairly consistent passengers loads which they estimate at about 85%. They claim that these
55 yellowtail : We'll wouldn't you....that is unfair competition.....if you gonna give one, you gotta give all....epecially if it is a competing route.
56 peanuts : Nice synopsis. In other words, DL got a big headache from this. Usually a headache is ok if the reward is there. Reward gone? Pack up and leave if it
57 OOer : Shabby DL planes??? Seriously??? The plane currently used on JFK-GEO is the same that Delta uses for it's premium JFK-LAX/SFO flights. This sounds a
58 OOer : JFK-GEO = 2,206nm JetBlue A320 range = 2,700nm Now consider this... The route of flight isn't direct. Add the DP and the approach. Add 45 minutes cont
59 Pyrex : Are those fares fully-loaded, with all the fees? If so, remember the international fees to pay for U.S. Customs and INS will take a significant chunk
60 yellowtail : In the end if this route was from ATL, and was marginal, it would probably stay. But as is from JFK, they have much less options aircraft wise. Maybe
61 OOer : New York has one of the largest populations of Guyanese people outside of Guyana. Not everything will work out of ATL. If Delta can't make it work out
62 AVIATEUR : Not just "one of." It's THE largest. And 90 percent of those people live within a 5-mile radius of JFK. I can't believe DL is letting this go. Those
63 Post contains images MaverickM11 : Yeah. Compared to the 17 charter carriers EZjet subcontracted in its nanosecond of existence
64 guyanam : The issue is that T&T supports BW, not GY. The latter has not put anything into BW, nor have they offered any concessions apart from nominating t
65 Post contains links LimaFoxTango : Rumours abound that this was the reason for DL's pullout. http://www.caribbean360.com/index.ph...ana_news/666375.html#axzz2LIiv2Z8j
66 yellowtail : Surely you can't believe this....BW is hardly a startup. as How can subsidized competition be a level playing field? If the intent was as you say, th
67 2travel2know2 : CM PTY wouldn't really get a piece of GEO-NYC O/D traffic demand: on GEO-Florida O/D, perhaps something. Anyhow, it's time due for CM to make it to G
68 guyanam : BW is no AA/DL/BA/UA. I think that you are getting the point. DL can start any route any where in the Caribbean, and with almost no promotion, they c
69 yellowtail : Wrong...as proven in markets where they didn't do much promotion, they failed (POS, etc). As proven in markets where they did (BZE for example) they
70 guyanam : . OK so I see. DL blames Guyana for BWs fuel subsidy. So that rumor appears to be true. Can you inform me about what subsidies BW gets from GY? Guyan
71 2travel2know2 : PY flying PBM-GEO-MIA is one thing, PY flying PBM-GEO-JFK w/B737-300 is another, unless PY is ready to use a wide body on that route..
72 guyanam : Well discussions have already begun on a JFK GEO PBM route. PY is interesed. They have also expressed an interest in YYZ GEO PBM service, though I th
73 yellowtail : Are you seriously going to try to debate this all over again. BW got an unfair fuels subsidy. The DL that I know asks for a level playing field so th
74 guyanam : Dont you think that its silly that DL demands that GY force T&T to drop the fuel subsidy. You are going on as if GY is offering BW something that
75 yellowtail : Despite my best efforts and having just a wee bit of experience in the airline business, I find myself unable to follow your logic. sorry.
76 Post contains images Deltal1011man : Then who ever sees them as "shabbier" are complete idiots. The 757s flying to GEO are some of the nicest aircraft in the fleet. Oddly enough they are
77 JA : We have to ask the question again: is there space for two carriers to make money? If July/August/December are the peak months, then that decision woul
78 LimaFoxTango : I say yes. Not like DL was running a daily operation. BW floods the market with their many GEO-POS that connects to their POS-North America flights i
79 guyanam : . What I am confused about is why you tie service to GEO with a subsidy offered to BW by T&T. Do you suggest that Guyana should offer a subsidy t
80 OOer : Others as in European, Middle-Eastern, and Asian carriers...yes. As in Caribbean carriers...I don't think so. Name 1 Caribbean carrier that has a fir
81 Post contains links guyanam : http://www.worldairlineawards.com/Awards_2012/Airline2012_top20.htm Top 20 airlines. Do you see any US carriers? The Caribbean is a price sensitive ma
82 cokepopper : I don't believe you read what OO stated....Here it is again...
83 guyanam : And the point is that DL does NOT offer first class to GEO and never did so it is irrelevant.to talk about DLs "superior first class. And as I told y
84 LimaFoxTango : Utter nonsense! DL maintained a 80+% load factor since they started the route. DL had their following and their flight was doing well enough to earn
85 guyanam : Based on yellow tail's comments the issue seems to revolve around DL feeling that BW has an undue advantage because of its fuel subsidy, ignoring of
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