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Ryanair Says EI Deal Blocked By EU  
User currently offlinefactsonly From Montserrat, joined Aug 2012, 950 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 9336 times:

Reuters reporting that Ryanair has stated the EU will block its take-over of Aer Lingus.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...ir-aerlingus-idUSBRE91B0RK20130212

93 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinekaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12522 posts, RR: 35
Reply 1, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 9138 times:

A very welcome development, but FR has said it will appeal. (It's always appealing, but only in a legal sense).

The decision to appeal is probably doomed from the start (it's hard to know on what grounds this will be - or on what grounds FR thinks it can appeal - since the full ruling of the Competition Commissioner's office has not been issued), but it adds more uncertainty to EI's position.

The next big milestone on the horizon will be the British OFT's ruling on FR's stake in EI; it would be a major blow to FR if the OFT were to rule against it.

Of course, FR is bleating that it met all of the concerns raised by the Competition office, but really ... Flybe? An airline that is having enough problems of its own, keeping its head above water? And still the fundamental issue ... FR controlling access to Irish airports and all of the ramifications of that - effectively holding the state to ransom. It just doesn't bear thinking about.


User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11672 posts, RR: 60
Reply 2, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 9025 times:

Thank God for that, it would have been a disaster for Ireland. Unless they bring highly compelling new evidence to the appeal, which I can't see them being able to do, it is futile. My next question, what will FR ultimately do with their shareholding - keep to try again in a few years or sell?


Dan  



...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
User currently offlineju068 From Vanuatu, joined Aug 2009, 2695 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 8957 times:
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I do not see why Ryanair is complaining so much... why should the European Union or the Irish government approve the sale when Aer Lingus managed to reorganize itself and report profits. There are simply no good arguments for the approval which would lead to the loss of competitiveness within the Irish aviation market.
It would make sense for them to change their mind when it comes to Greece as both Olympic and Aegean are loss making carriers. This is obviously not the case in Ireland.


User currently offlineEIDL From Ireland, joined Apr 2012, 462 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 8927 times:

I'm hopeful that the OFT ruling comes quickly and comes positively now - even having FR as a shareholder of that scale is a major problem for EI.

Stock price is still significantly higher than when the bidding process began (1.28 at the moment), should MOL think this is a time to crystallize their massive loss on this gamble and sell out.


User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7714 posts, RR: 21
Reply 5, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 8878 times:

No real surprise to be honest, though I suppose some silly decisions do get made now and again, so mild relief I guess.


✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineju068 From Vanuatu, joined Aug 2009, 2695 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 8650 times:
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Could it also have something to do with the European Union and the Irish government protecting DUB? Ryanair is famous for completely withdrawing from a market if it doesn't get what it wants. Naturally I know that they would not withdraw fully but they surely could blackmail them and demand considerable reduction in fees.

User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11672 posts, RR: 60
Reply 7, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 8622 times:

Quoting ju068 (Reply 11):

Could it also have something to do with the European Union and the Irish government protecting DUB?

Perhaps not DUB, but Ireland itself. It would have been a very bad deal for their economy aside of anything else.


Dan  



...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
User currently offlinetugger From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 5676 posts, RR: 10
Reply 8, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 8619 times:

Quoting kaitak (Reply 1):
The decision to appeal is probably doomed from the start

Honestly, I don't think FR actually though it would be able to buy EI, which would essentially give it control over the Irish flying market.

But the off chance that it could possibly happen, along with the with the free advertizing it would get from trying it is worth every penny it has spent on the process. And it is not even really negative like they often in the news for, it is just an industry action. Pretty favorable publicity for FR.

Tugg



I don’t know that I am unafraid to be myself, but it is hard to be somebody else. -W. Shatner
User currently offlinefactsonly From Montserrat, joined Aug 2012, 950 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 8588 times:

Herewith a link to an interesting analysis of Aer Lingus' performance and the Irish market.

http://centreforaviation.com/analysi...-but-beware-any-fall-in-rask-97103


User currently offlineKL911 From Czech Republic, joined Jul 2003, 5214 posts, RR: 15
Reply 10, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 8237 times:

Sad..... I am all for open markets and free trading. So what if a company wants to buy another? Happens all the time. Governments should stop being involved in private business deals.

User currently offlineshamrock604 From Ireland, joined Sep 2007, 4192 posts, RR: 13
Reply 11, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 8229 times:

Quoting KL911 (Reply 15):

So the consumer doesnt matter? Wow. Well, at least an FR fan has finally admitted it!



Flown EI,FR,RE,EIR,VE,SI,TLA,BA,BE,BD,VX,MON,AF,YS,WX,KL,SK,LH,OK,OS,LX,IB,LTU,HLX,4U,SU,CO,DL,UA,AC,PR,MH,SQ,QF, EY, EK
User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11672 posts, RR: 60
Reply 12, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 8205 times:

Quoting KL911 (Reply 15):
Governments should stop being involved in private business deals.

No that is part of what government is there for - to protect the consumer's best interest and the best interest of the country. That is what has been carried out here, otherwise the market would have been anything other than open.


Dan  



...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27123 posts, RR: 60
Reply 13, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 8205 times:

Quoting KL911 (Reply 15):
Sad..... I am all for open markets and free trading. So what if a company wants to buy another? Happens all the time. Governments should stop being involved in private business deals.

When its to the detriment of the country you certainly do need intervention. I'm all for open markets and free trading that's why this decision is justified ! It would be a monopoly and an unfair one at that should this have been allowed to go ahead. There is a balance between both IMHO. Not just because it FR but to any similar monopoly.


User currently onlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20746 posts, RR: 62
Reply 14, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 8150 times:

Quoting EIDL (Reply 4):
even having FR as a shareholder of that scale is a major problem for EI.

FR seems to own almost 30% of EI's stock, but I couldn't locate how that effects the makeup of the Board of Directors. Does anyone know where there's a breakdown by affiliation? Ireland's government seems to still own about 25% of the stock as well.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineEagleBoy From Niue, joined Dec 2009, 1853 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 7999 times:
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Quoting KL911 (Reply 15):
So what if a company wants to buy another? Happens all the time. Governments should stop being involved in private business deals.

Yes, if its a private business deal. This is not private as it affects millions of air travellers and it reflects their desire to have choice in their travel rather than experience a FR monopoly.

And this is not the same as the BA/Bmi merger where Bmi allowed themselves to be bought, in this case EI do not want the advances of FR, at any price.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 19):
FR seems to own almost 30% of EI's stock, but I couldn't locate how that effects the makeup of the Board of Directors. Does anyone know where there's a breakdown by affiliation? Ireland's government seems to still own about 25% of the stock as well.

FR own 29%, Irish Govt own 25%, EY own 3%, EI pilots own 3%, an Irish businessman named Denis O'Brian owns another 3%, 15% was gifte to staff when EI floated,no idea how much of this is still in staff hands. All in all only approx 40% of EI shares are free floating on that stock market. Most of the above have indicated that they will not sell to FR or mean to hold onto their stock.


User currently offlinekaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12522 posts, RR: 35
Reply 16, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 7979 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 19):

FR seems to own almost 30% of EI's stock, but I couldn't locate how that effects the makeup of the Board of Directors

FR has no representatives on the EI board - for reasons I can't explain or understand.

Quoting OA260 (Reply 18):
Not just because it FR but to any similar monopoly.

I agree, but given FR's record and the manner in which it has attempted to influence govt policy on aviation (and I use that phrase advisedly, since the Irish govt has never had much interest in aviation policy), it can be seen as very likely that it would attempt to use its dominant position to seek concessions and policy changes which would not be in anyone else's interests apart from FR's.

FR is alleging that government influence led to the decision, but that seems to ignore the weakness of its case and the glaring fact that if FR did buy out EI, it would control nearly 80% of traffic to Ireland and given its record (for example, the way it saw off U2), it would act in a predatory manner.


User currently onlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20746 posts, RR: 62
Reply 17, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 7878 times:

Quoting EagleBoy (Reply 20):
Most of the above have indicated that they will not sell to FR or mean to hold onto their stock.
Quoting kaitak (Reply 21):
FR has no representatives on the EI board - for reasons I can't explain or understand.

Thanks to you both for the info. I guess I'm used to a system where even 5% will cause rogue investors to begin talking about sitting on the BoD. Perhaps there's some anti-trust types of issues, but I'm truly not versed in EU or Irish securities regulations, so that's just a guess on my part.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlinepvjin From Finland, joined Mar 2012, 1319 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 7097 times:

Quoting KL911 (Reply 15):

Sad..... I am all for open markets and free trading. So what if a company wants to buy another? Happens all the time. Governments should stop being involved in private business deals.

Yeah we would absolutely love world full of mega airlines crushing all new businesses down and thus decreasing competition & making things worse for the customer as such airlines would have total monopoly in many airports which in practice would mean increase in ticket prices.



"A rational army would run away"
User currently offlinefinnishway From Finland, joined Jul 2012, 311 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 6926 times:

I am not happy, but I think Mr. O'Leary will figure something out.

User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11672 posts, RR: 60
Reply 20, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 6873 times:

Quoting finnishway (Reply 24):
I think Mr. O'Leary will figure something out.

Preferably the realisation that Ryanair have lost their campaign to take over Aer Lingus...



...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
User currently offlinefinnishway From Finland, joined Jul 2012, 311 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 6767 times:

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 25):
Preferably the realisation that Ryanair have lost their campaign to take over Aer Lingus...

They don't need to buy Air Lingus to be innovative and succeed. Ryanair still is the largest airline in Europe when we look at the total passengers carried in within Europe. It is making profit and customers are happy to fly with them.
Let the best airline in Europe to continue its great efforts.

[Edited 2013-02-12 15:26:01]

User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11672 posts, RR: 60
Reply 22, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 6689 times:

Quoting finnishway (Reply 26):
Let the best airline in Europe to continue its great efforts.

Exactly - let Ryanair keep doing what they do best, and let Aer Lingus keep doing what they do best - separately. Then you get the best of both worlds, which is a competitive and fair air travel market in Ireland.



...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
User currently offlineDFWHeavy From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 560 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 6489 times:

I completely agree with KL911,

So what is there is a "Monopoly". No one said someone else couldn't start an airline and compete. I'm sick of governments involved in every aspect of everyone's lives. If 2 companies want to merge, the government shouldn't be telling them they can't. It's sickening.



Christopher W Slovacek
User currently offlineN867DA From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1008 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 6424 times:

Are Ryanair and Aer Lingus Ireland's only airlines? Are other airlines in Europe allowed to fly domestic Irish flight if they'd like to (a quick search for SNN-DUB shows only EI and BA flights, so I assume yes)?


A nation turns its lonely eyes to you
25 RussianJet : I'm glad that monopolies and cartels are regulated against. It is potentially diabolical for the consumer otherwise, particularly when the companies
26 EagleBoy : This is most definitely NOT 2 companies wanting to merge........... This is company that has a large (and very unwelcome) minority shareholding it on
27 EIDL : There are two other Irish passenger airlines, but one (Aer Arann - RE) operates solely under franchise for Aer Lingus and the other (CityJet - WX) is
28 a320fan : Ah, Thank God that this most likely wont happen. This is solely a plan of Ryanair's to kill off their main competitor in their home market and nothing
29 p201055r : Three quick points:- 1. Ryanair, a vocal critic of various forms of authority is ever the hapless victim when things go against it (according to its o
30 finnishway : Nobody cares about Ireland except the Irish people itself. Now we are talking about the whole Europe and the world. I don't care if there is no route
31 Phen : You've completely missed the essence of this whole story. As EagleBoy pointed out, EI does NOT and will likely never want to merge with FR. Any small
32 Phen : The same can be said for any country to be honest - I don't care what happens to aviation in Slovakia but I would oppose a hostile takeover which wou
33 bx737 : Interesting suggestion finnishway, to put it in context for you, it would be acceptable for you to have one air route between Helsinki and Stockholm,
34 Aesma : Yes European airlines can fly any European route they wish.
35 p201055r : Missing the point I think suomalainentapa - Ryanair's hostile take-over bid for Aer Lingus may only be the start of broader expansion plans - the wis
36 ju068 : So according to your logic no one should go to Finland just because there is Russia and Sweden next to it? Funny you mention the economy, as both Aer
37 finnishway : Depends on subject. I meant about the Ireland and its economy in total.
38 bx737 : I don't know about the railway market or the alcohol market in Finland, but I agree, lets get rid of monopolies, thus the Ryanair take over of Aer Li
39 ju068 : Aha... so double standards. Well, we are not discussing the overall state of the Irish economy on here but the state of its aviation sector. I guess
40 finnishway : We have been talking about some island in Ireland and its connections to the mainland. I concluded it myself. Pretty much yes. I know, but Helsinki i
41 Post contains images Danny : Clearly double standards. No problem with BA buying BMI but Ryanair cannot buy Aer Lingus
42 finnishway : That is not my opinion if you are referring to me.
43 ju068 : Yes but normally you should think that as after the merger there are less options to fly into the United Kingdom... you know, so that people do not h
44 Jambost : I would also note easyjet , jet2 and Flybe as they base operations in Northern Ireland. There is no physical boarder to restrain those in Northern Ir
45 Post contains images Phen : And around in circles we go again. I think we've discussed it at length now with this and other previous threads. Lets move on and await the UK OFT i
46 finnishway : I agree with you. I wonder how many new friends I have made in these discussions. If there will be A.net meeting or something like that in Ireland, m
47 EagleBoy : Lets hope you don't work for the Finnish tourist board BA/Bmi is very different to EI/FR. Bmi was a basketcase airline that had been going downhill (
48 Post contains images PlymSpotter : Oh yes they do, and you should to. Just about every European country owes every other European country billions in bonds - I don't for one minute thi
49 finnishway : I am not waiting Ireland or Greece to pay much back to us. Finnish people pays your loans back with higher taxes. It is not. That is true. Why fly fr
50 PlymSpotter : Err, that doesn't even make sense?
51 finnishway : Yes it does. If you need to go abroad then go via London. If you need to go to Dublin, go by bus, car, ferry, train or walking. Ireland is so small c
52 bx737 : We have a huge differing of opinion and there is nothing wrong with that. If there was an Anet meeting and we both went, I would like to meet you. It
53 Post contains images PlymSpotter : No it didn't, but I now see what you mean. It is Ireland, not an island. If only the world was that simple. Dan
54 Danny : If EI is such a great business then the shareholders will not sell their shares to Ryanair and the whole takeover will be dead. No need for governmen
55 Revelation : Congratulations for diving into the pile of manure and finding a pony! It seems the FR threat has managed to do something no one thought was possible
56 finnishway : That is nice to hear and I am not trying to be annoying. I try to tell my (sometimes stupid) opinions to you. Wouldn't it be appropriate to fly to Ir
57 Post contains images PlymSpotter : The South East of England at a whole is almost at capacity, pretty soon it will have reached it. Dan
58 anfromme : I'm glad this saga seems to be finally coming to a happy end. Now all we have to endure is a few weeks of O'Leary and his spokespeople complaing and w
59 sandyb123 : Agreed in principle, however I can understand it in this case. Monopolies and mergers comes into play here as a united EI & FR would create a nea
60 finnishway : Monopolies are usually runned by countries. That would be just a big market share in this case. None, yet. HEL-DUB with EI instead of HEL-DUB with AY
61 shamrock604 : I'd go so far as to say we have a little bit of a chip on our shoulder. Go to the UK because it's bigger. Dont go to Ireland because it cant handle i
62 finnishway : Say what? You mean I should say that? Well, you said it already, no need to repeat it.
63 Toulouse : Really think you need to check as I have no idea what you're talking about and I think you should maybe take out an atlas while you're at it. Ok, che
64 anfromme : Governments are there to protect their citizens. In this case from a monopoly. In other cases, monopolies are broken up by law, in this case the law
65 finnishway : No, you need to read the other discussion. We were talking about this in a different discussion. Finland is the best country in the world. Finland ha
66 Post contains links and images anfromme : If you don't care about Ireland why are you even interested in FR's repeated takeover attempts of EI and the ensuing competition investigations? The
67 finnishway : I care about aviation and business. If it is cheaper to fly to smaller airports why not to fly then? I know that, but I think we have been talking ab
68 Post contains images MIAspotter : Sure why not, Dublin to Cork should take you just 51 hours. be my guest. MIAspotter
69 finnishway : Maybe by walking, not by driving a car.
70 Post contains images Toulouse : So my friend, when exactly was the last time you visited Ireland. Strange that we actually have net immigration in this country today. Could you plea
71 MIAspotter : But... that´s what you suggested no? bus, car, ferry, train OR WALKING... Australia is also an ¨Island¨ you can try walking from Sydney to Perh. M
72 irishair98 : 'Dublin - Cork 260 km ~ 2,5 hours by car - no need to fly. Dublin - Waterford 160 km ~ 2 hours by car - no need to fly. Distances are so short there
73 bx737 : Finnishway, just for clarity the majority of the approximately 23 million people who flew in and out of DUB, ORK and SNN last year flew with Aer Lingu
74 rlwynn : . .
75 Post contains images finnishway : Never. No, because I don't know enough to explain that, but maybe you understand what I mean. Don't care. I still would like to know how big market s
76 Toulouse : Sorry, don't know the actual figure. But as I said EI have 43% overall for all the country. Between Aer Lingus and Ryanair it's 80% so I'd say Ryanai
77 bx737 : I was referring to ferries from Ireland to UK and Continent. There are very few internal ferry services in Ireland. The only ones I can think of are t
78 finnishway : Yes, but I would like to know how many passengers Ireland would lose if there wouldn't be Ryanair's flights at all. So we were talking about differen
79 anfromme : With all due respect, I think you should take a minimum interest in the Irish aviation market if you want to pass judgement on a takeover bid and com
80 finnishway : But its not too wrong either. I did talk about them so basically I have been talkin bulls... all the time.
81 anfromme : A good few, I would imagine. But nobody is suggesting to shut down FR or reduce their service anyway.
82 Post contains images PlymSpotter : I have to agree here. I'm afraid the lesson to learn from this thread is not to discus something which you don't have any clue or interest in. Dan
83 EagleBoy : FR have approx 38% market share, with EI at 43%. Between the 2 they have over 80% market share from Ireland. On some routes they have 100%. How is th
84 pvjin : No my friend, although economically our country might be doing a bit better than Ireland (for now, I have full faith in our government messing everyt
85 Post contains images anfromme : Sounds like Ireland to me. Well, if you like skyscrapers and cities, you shouldn't come to Ireland, either. Its appeal is the landscape (and tiny tow
86 shamrock604 : Folks, We are clearly talking to a bit of a supremacist here. We should remind of course about Finland's fiscal crisis of a few years back. They were
87 par13del : I will assume that FR initially bought shares in EI because they ultimately wanted to take over the company, now that the regulators are stating that
88 EIDL : There's actually probably close to 100 internal ferry services in Ireland. Wildly more than domestic air services (of which there are less than 10 -
89 bx737 : Thank you EIDL for updating me. I used a book about Ferry services in Northern Europe for my info. I stand corrected. Could you tell me more about th
90 anfromme : Well, the Aer Lingus share price has gone up from around 1.10 two months ago to just short of 1.30. So FR's share is now worth more than before and t
91 Post contains links EIDL : http://www.irishhelicopters.com/north-west-health-board.html It is mainly intended to be used by the GP but it is open to all.
92 bx737 : Thanks again EIDL for the info
93 Post contains links anfromme : Quick update on this - Joaquin Almunia, the EU competition Commissioner officially stated that the decision on the merger will be announced on Februar
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