Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Icelandair Firms 737MAX Order  
User currently offlinestlgph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9299 posts, RR: 25
Posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 6780 times:

Previous order was 12 firm with 12 options, 4 of those options switch to firms, making 16 firm orders with 8 options, starting in 2017.

With the 757's sticking around, my question is ... are there plans to expand Keflavik Airport? That's going to be a lot of planes at a handful of gates in the peak season.


Icelandair Group and Boeing finalize orders for 737 MAX

[Edited 2013-02-13 08:49:22 by SA7700]


Eternal darkness we all should dread. It's hard to party when you're dead.
25 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineGBerg From Iceland, joined Dec 2012, 4 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 6543 times:

From Icelandair Announcement "The aircraft will be delivered in 2018-2021" so how many 757 will be in the fleet then?
KEF has a lot of room to expand in the future and is a good hub for transatlantic flights. So there is huge possibilities for Icelandair.


User currently offlinebos2laf From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 374 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 6502 times:

Quoting GBerg (Reply 1):
KEF has a lot of room to expand in the future and is a good hub for transatlantic flights. So there is huge possibilities for Icelandair.

The one problem is that a hub cannot survive on connecting traffic alone. Unless Iceland sees an explosion in its population to support O&D traffic, I wouldn't hold my breath on KEF becoming a major hub.


User currently onlinemjoelnir From Iceland, joined Feb 2013, 1348 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 6256 times:

Quoting bos2laf (Reply 2):
The one problem is that a hub cannot survive on connecting traffic alone. Unless Iceland sees an explosion in its population to support O&D traffic, I wouldn't hold my breath on KEF becoming a major hub.

I would not expect KEF becoming a major hub as I do not expect Icelandair becoming an major airline.

But for a small airline like Icelandair it is a small but expanding hub. Icelandair offers more North American destinations from KEF than there are direct connections into North America from OSL or ARL.
When you look at Norway and Sweden it is not the worst way to get to DEN or SEA via KEF.

The main growth for Icelandair comes from connecting trafic.
Icelandair increased seats by 15% this winter and added this January two B 757 and will fly with 18 B 757 passenger planes this summer.


User currently offlineju068 From Serbia, joined Aug 2009, 2579 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 6211 times:

Quoting mjoelnir (Reply 3):
Icelandair increased seats by 15% this winter and added this January two B 757 and will fly with 18 B 757 passenger planes this summer.

Do you know where these two birds came from?

Quoting bos2laf (Reply 2):
The one problem is that a hub cannot survive on connecting traffic alone. Unless Iceland sees an explosion in its population to support O&D traffic, I wouldn't hold my breath on KEF becoming a major hub.

Well Icelandair does carry a lot of tourists to Iceland, so I guess that helps a lot. I remember when I flew from Copenhagen to Kéflavik, roughly 80% of our flight was made up of connecting passengers.


User currently onlinemjoelnir From Iceland, joined Feb 2013, 1348 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 6154 times:

Quoting ju068 (Reply 4):
Do you know where these two birds came from?

The last three are B 757-223(WL) and are coming from AA, ln 423, 337 and I think 379

[Edited 2013-02-13 10:38:29]

[Edited 2013-02-13 10:39:14]

User currently offlineju068 From Serbia, joined Aug 2009, 2579 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 6109 times:

Quoting mjoelnir (Reply 5):

Great, thanks for that.


User currently offlinestlgph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9299 posts, RR: 25
Reply 7, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 6079 times:

Quoting bos2laf (Reply 2):
The one problem is that a hub cannot survive on connecting traffic alone. Unless Iceland sees an explosion in its population to support O&D traffic, I wouldn't hold my breath on KEF becoming a major hub.

I wouldn't say a major hub, but I'd say yes, KEF is serving as a connecting hub for a number of destinations. Wouldn't be surprised to see some smaller cities added from North America... I'll go out on a limb and say with the 737MAX ... perhaps Ottawa and/or even something like Hartford/Springfield?

Also, Iceland Naturally, Iceland Tourism, etc. is looking to build up tourism to the country outside of the peak summer season. A couple of events, such as Iceland Airwaves, Bears on Ice, the New Year's Celebration, are helping to anchor interest in off season events and tourism in the country. Airwaves has seen tremendous growth in the past couple of years, be interesting to see what this festival becomes.

Iceland's also looking to make a push to attract tech/data centers with its geothermal energy resources.



Eternal darkness we all should dread. It's hard to party when you're dead.
User currently onlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20390 posts, RR: 62
Reply 8, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 6028 times:

Quoting GBerg (Reply 1):
KEF has a lot of room to expand in the future and is a good hub for transatlantic flights. So there is huge possibilities for Icelandair.

  

KEF has a rich history of charter flights between N. America and Europe (usually Luxembourg in the 60s). No reason why a well-planned hub-and-spoke system couldn't work in this era of air travel, IMO.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Baldur Sveinsson




International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlinea3xx900 From Germany, joined Jan 2004, 335 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 5909 times:

While Icelandair is a nice airline (was on FRA-KEF-IAD last summer... really good "Saga" class, but that is another story), KEF is one of the worst airports I have experienced so far. It might be small and connections are quick, but it's complicated (a lot of people didn't know where to go) and, well, small! While waiting to board my KEF-IAD flight the terminal was PACKED with people, and no seating available, at least I did not see any. So if Icelandair expands its operations, KEF really needs some makeover to handle more pax.


Why is 10 afraid of 7? Because 7 8 9.
User currently offlineAeroflot777 From Russia, joined Mar 2004, 3006 posts, RR: 27
Reply 10, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 5517 times:

Quoting a3xx900 (Reply 9):
So if Icelandair expands its operations, KEF really needs some makeover to handle more pax.

My thoughts exactly. I loved my flights with them, but KEF was one hell of a mess. More so post-security and post-food court. Once you enter the gate area corridors it's insanely cramped and the lack of seating / waiting area is dumbfounding. There were simultaneous flights boarding to various destinations and the gates were packed with people who resembled herding cows.

That said, KEF was by no means a representation of Iceland - a country that is incredible in almost every aspect you can think of.

Aeroflot777


User currently offlinestlgph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9299 posts, RR: 25
Reply 11, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 5482 times:

Quoting a3xx900 (Reply 9):
Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 10):

I was there in November and the terminal was quite packed for the two flights to JFK, the one to Boston, and the one to Toronto. Honestly, I'd love to see it in the summer rush sometime - I bet it's just one hella busy place.

My question though - do all flights from the states arrive at the end gates, or do they arrive at the 'first long hallway area' (gates 1-6?) and then passengers get funneled downstairs to come back up through passport control? Or how does that work with those particular gates?



Eternal darkness we all should dread. It's hard to party when you're dead.
User currently onlinemjoelnir From Iceland, joined Feb 2013, 1348 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 5345 times:

The Airport is not that small. It has to overcame two problems.

One.
There are three groups of passengers having to be kept apart.
Schengen PAX, PAX outside Schengen and Pax to the USA.
Different rules regarding passport control and weapons search.

Two.
The flights from Icelandair come in a wave and leave in a wave.
In the morning first you have the flights from North America arriving and than the flights to Europe leaving.
In the afternoon it is the other way round. The rest of the time it is mostly quiet with just a few planes coming and going.
In the Summer you have a third wave. The tourist flights from Europe, Air Berlin, Germanwings, Nikki and so on. They come in around midnight and leave between 01:00 and 02:00. They use the time while many European airports are closed for the night to squeeze in one flight to Iceland going out before and arriving after the night closing.

If Icelandair would either stretch the waves or running multiple waves the airport could accommodate more traffic without an expansion . An expansion is in the planing stages but there is no decision if and when.


User currently offlineeaa3 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1000 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 4964 times:

Quoting mjoelnir (Reply 12):
If Icelandair would either stretch the waves or running multiple waves the airport could accommodate more traffic without an expansion . An expansion is in the planing stages but there is no decision if and when.

Having multiple transfer times would undermine the whole concept of a hub-and-spoke system.

I think that we will see the building of a new terminal soon. Icelandair and the airport authority have been talking about it for some time. In order to expand the hub-and-spoke system they need to get more room, more gates and more floor space. There's more than enough space at the airport for a new terminal. Additionally they are considering building a new runway to run parallel to 20/2.


User currently offlineRWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3117 posts, RR: 5
Reply 14, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 4245 times:

Quoting bos2laf (Reply 2):
The one problem is that a hub cannot survive on connecting traffic alone.
Quoting eaa3 (Reply 13):
Having multiple transfer times would undermine the whole concept of a hub-and-spoke system

Dubai does pretty well doing these exact things..... Just saying, not trying to call you out at all.



AA-AC-AQ-AS-BN-BD-CO-CS-DL-EA-EZ-HA-HP-KL-KN-MP-MW-NK-NW-OO-OZ-PA-PS-QX-RC-RH-RW-SA-TG-TW-UA-US-VS-WA-WC-WN
User currently offlineVinniewinnie From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 772 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 4150 times:

Quoting mjoelnir (Reply 12):
Two.
The flights from Icelandair come in a wave and leave in a wave.
In the morning first you have the flights from North America arriving and than the flights to Europe leaving.
In the afternoon it is the other way round. The rest of the time it is mostly quiet with just a few planes coming and going.

I thought there were 2 waves to certain destinations in the same direction: One in the morning one in the afternoon. I might be wrong though...


User currently onlinemjoelnir From Iceland, joined Feb 2013, 1348 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 3560 times:

Quoting Vinniewinnie (Reply 15):
I thought there were 2 waves to certain destinations in the same direction: One in the morning one in the afternoon. I might be wrong though...

In the wintertime they only do LHR and CPH twice daly.

All the North American destinations are only once a day if they are daily.

In the summer you see a second wave with LHR, AMS, CDG, OSL, ARN twice and CPH four times a day.
In the west they double up on JFK and BOS.

In the Summer they have nine North American and 30 European destinations most of them not daily all in the morning wave east and afternoon wave west.

After loosing money in 2008 and 2009 they turned profitable again 2010 and had with 2011 and 2012 two really good years.


User currently offlineclydenairways From Ireland, joined Jan 2007, 1225 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 3406 times:

These aircraft are ordered by the group so it's possible that they will probably not be all operated by Icelandair itself at the same time.
The group has a long history of providing leases to other carriers so i would expect that some of these aircraft will operate for third parties.
There is nothing in that press release talking about significant expansion of the KEF hub operations so i don't know why this is being assumed by posters.


User currently offlinestlgph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9299 posts, RR: 25
Reply 18, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 3232 times:

Quoting mjoelnir (Reply 16):

a few weeks ago someone posted the gate use chart for O'Hare terminal 5. be neat too see one for the KEF terminal.



Eternal darkness we all should dread. It's hard to party when you're dead.
User currently offlineeaa3 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1000 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 3069 times:

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 14):
Dubai does pretty well doing these exact things..... Just saying, not trying to call you out at all.

Dubai has multiple transfer times, 3 I believe, but those transfer times are big enough to be sustained. But people that are transferring generally just transfer within one transfer period. They don't wait around for very long.

What I mean is that it wouldn't make sense to have one transfer time spread over a long period because then people have to wait a lot. It's fine though to have dual or triple independent transfer times.


User currently onlinemjoelnir From Iceland, joined Feb 2013, 1348 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 2322 times:

Quoting clydenairways (Reply 17):
These aircraft are ordered by the group so it's possible that they will probably not be all operated by Icelandair itself at the same time.
The group has a long history of providing leases to other carriers so i would expect that some of these aircraft will operate for third parties.
There is nothing in that press release talking about significant expansion of the KEF hub operations so i don't know why this is being assumed by posters.

The Icelandic airline wet leasing out air planes is Air Atlanta Icelandic (17 x B747 as it is).

Icelandair Group the mother company of Icelandair consists of:
Icelandair: running 17 x B757-200, 1 x B757-300
Icelandair Cargo: 4 x B757-200 + the belly freight on the passenger planes
Air Iceland (Flugfelag Islands): 6 x Fokker 50 and 2 x DHC-8-200
Loftleiðir Icelandic: charter operations uses the planes of Icelandair
IGS is their Groundservice in KEF
Hotels + Travelagents

Icelandair grew about 15% from 2011 to 2012. And the growth January 2012 to 2013 seems to be over 20%.
I assume the above mentioned B737MAX are really to expand their fleet.

They still have one B 787 on order after having sold three slots to Norwegian.

Icelandair I think wet leases out 1 x 767-300ER and leases out 2 x 767-300ER and 2 x 757-200.
This information may be old they could have sold them.

[Edited 2013-02-14 12:18:26]

User currently onlinemjoelnir From Iceland, joined Feb 2013, 1348 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 2258 times:

Quoting stlgph (Reply 11):
My question though - do all flights from the states arrive at the end gates, or do they arrive at the 'first long hallway area' (gates 1-6?) and then passengers get funneled downstairs to come back up through passport control? Or how does that work with those particular gates?

The Gates one to four are used for Schengen flights only.

Gates 5 and 6 can be used for Schengen or (under a differnt gate number) for outside Schengen but not USA.
You have to pass through passport control.

The other gates 7,8,9,10,11,12,14 and 15 can be used for Schengen, outside Schengen and USA.

On http://www.kefairport.is/English/ you find a map of the airport.


User currently offlineodwyerpw From Mexico, joined Dec 2004, 840 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2038 times:

Always good to see more MAX news. That's 16 more planes firmed up!

The current 752s seat 183. The 9Max will seat 172 in Islandair Config, while the 8Max seats 153.
It will be interesting to see how these planes with smaller capacity are deployed.

Peter



Quiero una vida simple en Mexico. Nada mas.
User currently onlinemjoelnir From Iceland, joined Feb 2013, 1348 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 1993 times:

Quoting odwyerpw (Reply 22):
The current 752s seat 183. The 9Max will seat 172 in Islandair Config, while the 8Max seats 153.
It will be interesting to see how these planes with smaller capacity are deployed.

The Icelandair B757-200 seats 22 C and 167 Y together 189. The B757-300 seats 18 C and 210 Y together 228.

I am sure they will increase frequency. There are quite a few destinations were there is now not a daily flight.
SFB, DEN, SEA and ANC will still see the B 757-200.

[Edited 2013-02-14 17:02:07]

User currently offlinemesaflyguy From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 2931 posts, RR: 4
Reply 24, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 1926 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Maybe we will see increases in frequency to places like JFk and BOS?

JFK could possibly retain the second flight in the winter but have it downguaged to a 737-8MAX.



\________(---)________/ :) World's most beautiful aircraft: 757-200, MD-88/90, E-190, A321
User currently offlinestlgph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9299 posts, RR: 25
Reply 25, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1719 times:

Quoting mjoelnir (Reply 21):
The other gates 7,8,9,10,11,12,14 and 15 can be used for Schengen, outside Schengen and USA.

interesting.
So in the summer 5 and 6 knock out Toronto and Halifax.
7 to 15 would be a pretty tight fit then with the USA flights. That has to be some quick pushing in and pushing out of some planes when they all come in or get ready to load out.
It's a fascinating little airport - I love how it's laid out and thought out.



Eternal darkness we all should dread. It's hard to party when you're dead.
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Boeing Announces Russian 737MAX Order posted Tue Oct 30 2012 13:02:08 by LAXintl
Transaero Firms A380 Order posted Thu Jun 21 2012 00:47:12 by qf340500
Volaris Firms NEO Order With Airbus. posted Thu Jan 12 2012 08:52:21 by Mexicana757
WN Near 737MAX Order. posted Wed Dec 7 2011 17:36:19 by mffoda
TAM Firms Airbus Order posted Wed Jul 28 2010 08:27:46 by Flying-Tiger
HK Airlines Firms A330 Order posted Wed Apr 7 2010 01:37:59 by Flying-Tiger
EY Firms Airbus Order posted Tue Aug 26 2008 06:21:07 by ElbowRoom
China Airlines Firms A350 Order posted Tue Jan 22 2008 00:10:50 by Flying-Tiger
Ural Airlines Firms A320 Order posted Mon Dec 17 2007 06:38:37 by Flying-Tiger
Saudia Firms Airbus Order posted Tue Dec 11 2007 05:22:41 by Flying-Tiger