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FAA Funding Cuts By Sequestration  
User currently offlineDreamflight767 From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 86 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 6 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 12298 times:
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I would like to share this with our aviation community and ask for your support. Thank you.

The upcoming sequestration (across-the-board cuts) are set to take place on March 1st. Unless Congress acts, the FAA will be forced to cut $483 million from its operations budget and will likely result in mandatory furloughs for ALL FAA employees include air traffic controllers, other aviation safety professionals, Alaskan Flight Service Stations, and Federal Contract Towers. These cuts will no doubt have a severe effect on the efficiency and capacity of the National Airspace. In addition to furloughs we may expect a reduction in facility operating hours (shutting down facilities during mid-shift operations) and services and a host of yet-to-be-determined cost-saving measures (maintenance to NAV aids –ILS, NDBs, & VORs - and other FAA operated equipment).

Please help to make sure that your members of Congress understand the need to avoid these cuts under sequestration by clicking on the link below to make our voice heard!


http://afl.salsalabs.com/o/5893/p/di...dia/action/public/?action_KEY=5541

Your efforts and time are much appreciated.

204 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinemmedford From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 561 posts, RR: 8
Reply 1, posted (1 year 6 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 12276 times:

I'd bump this thread...

If you guys think delays are bad now, imagine how bad things will be when 1/10 of the staffing is avaliable.,

Do your part, here...now.



ILS = It'll Land Somewhere
User currently offlineSPREE34 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 2245 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (1 year 6 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 12174 times:

You want their attention? Operate DCA on a limited budget and schedule, before any other airports.


I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
User currently offlineas739x From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6121 posts, RR: 23
Reply 3, posted (1 year 6 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 12129 times:

Quoting SPREE34 (Reply 2):
You want their attention? Operate DCA on a limited budget and schedule, before any other airports.



Completely agree!



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlineIAHFLYR From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 4790 posts, RR: 22
Reply 4, posted (1 year 6 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 12132 times:

Quoting SPREE34 (Reply 2):
You want their attention? Operate DCA on a limited budget and schedule, before any other airports.


And then ORD, ATL, JFK and a few others right behind, in fact start it now. Also, when an ILS goes down and requires a Flight Inspection to bring it back to service, they can't fly because the pilots who were not furloughed that day are out of crew time.



Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
User currently offlineikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21500 posts, RR: 60
Reply 5, posted (1 year 6 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 12017 times:

But is this so vital that they also are allowed to continue wasteful spending in other departments to prevent it? Reminds me of the pleas on the state and local levels in California, that if you don't agree to our tax demands, we will let prisoners out if jail and cut the fire department. This is simply government extortion on the national rather than regional level.

Lets just pass an emergency FAA bill if its so vital.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently onlineRoseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9580 posts, RR: 52
Reply 6, posted (1 year 6 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 11991 times:

One thing that is even worse for some people is that the FAA Certification offices are looking at going on furlough as well. That would put a hault to certification work, which could keep the 787 grounded, and impact deliveries of all Cessna, Boeing, etc airplanes as well as deliveries to airlines under FAA jurisdiction of Airbus, Embraer, Bombardier, etc. The consequences are rather big.

I know we are supposed to keep politics out of the Civil Aviation thread, but any politician thinking that it is ok to have such consequences should be voted out of office in my opinion. The impact to aviation alone is enough to seriously hurt many people within the FAA and the industry as a whole.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineatct From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 2283 posts, RR: 38
Reply 7, posted (1 year 6 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 11755 times:

We need to cut costs, plain and simple. I can only hope the furlough days are back to back so I can enjoy it, not the 1 day a pay period im hearing. Looking forward to a few days off, sorry travelling public!


"The way to get started is to quit talking and begin doing." - Walt Disney
User currently offlineDreamflight767 From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 86 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 6 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 11600 times:
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Quoting atct (Reply 7):
We need to cut costs, plain and simple. I can only hope the furlough days are back to back so I can enjoy it, not the 1 day a pay period im hearing. Looking forward to a few days off, sorry travelling public!

LOL!!! You obviously haven't worked for the agency that long. If you think the FAA/Management is going to be that diligent when deciding what days you spend on the beach, you have a rude awaking. And, if you haven't looked around your facility or kept pace with other FAA paraphernalia for better cost cutting measures, you need to improve your scan. Moreover, if you think it takes HR a long time to process your payroll/benefits/ERRs/Bids, or any other "paperwork" you might need, just wait and see.




A reminder for everyone to please take a moment and follow the link in the original post. Regardless if you plan to travel by air, this will have a direct impact on your daily life.

Thanks!


User currently offlineMeanGreen From United States of America, joined May 2006, 142 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 6 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 11580 times:

atct, you are excited about unpaid time off? I am not and I am also not excited about the impact this will have on my facility and the users of the NAS!

User currently onlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12981 posts, RR: 100
Reply 10, posted (1 year 6 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 11546 times:
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Its not just the FAA. I came out of the defense industries. The cuts are brutal and *not* going after the waste. In fact, they seem determined to go after programs people care about in an attempt to just raise taxes.

This is a 5% budget cut. I came out of a group that had to do the same work after a 20% budget cut where half the budget went back to the government and they were cut 0%!

While I do not want anyone laid off, I suspect the FAA has more than 5% waste. Identify that and cut it. It won't be the air traffic controllers and many of the line personel IMHO.

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 5):
But is this so vital that they also are allowed to continue wasteful spending in other departments to prevent it?

  

Quoting Dreamflight767 (Reply 8):
this will have a direct impact on your daily life.

I've had multiple friends laid off. This has already had impacts on daily life. But as long as we import more than we produce, we'll be on a downward spiral.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlinebohica From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2686 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (1 year 6 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 11532 times:

Quoting SPREE34 (Reply 2):
You want their attention? Operate DCA on a limited budget and schedule, before any other airports.

Better yet, shut down DCA. Also shut down IAD and BWI so congressmen can't use those as alternate airports. Lets see how fast they will act.


User currently offlinefrmrcapcadet From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1713 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (1 year 6 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 11511 times:

This Ezra Klein article discusses the deficit, and includes the CBO projected spending chart in the main government spending sectors. It is fairly non-controversial that medical spending is crowding out most of the other spending. And posters need to keep in mind that the federal budget roughly represents a concensus of American wishes.

If a moderator were to consider it appropriate posting the CBO chart might be helpful.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...reason-to-worry-about-the-deficit/



Buffet: the airline business...has eaten up capital...like..no other (business)
User currently offlineIAHFLYR From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 4790 posts, RR: 22
Reply 13, posted (1 year 6 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 11222 times:

Quoting MeanGreen (Reply 9):
atct, you are excited about unpaid time off?


You have to know him to understand him! I'm not defending those words, only that he need serious help...thus why we sent him packing to Alaska.   



Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
User currently onlineN766UA From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 8226 posts, RR: 23
Reply 14, posted (1 year 6 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 11191 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 10):
The cuts are brutal and *not* going after the waste.

Absolutely correct. There are so many meaningful and effective ways to cut costs that would actually be beneficial. This is not one of them. This is just another prime example of a corrupt and broken government screwing up and me, and average citizens like me, taking the hit.

But hey, it's not important enough for them to NOT take a damned weeklong vacation, and I'm sure they're doing it unpaid like I'm going to have to, right?  



This Website Censors Me
User currently offlinercair1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 1316 posts, RR: 52
Reply 15, posted (1 year 6 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 11163 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
CUSTOMER SERVICE & SUPPORT

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 5):
But is this so vital that they also are allowed to continue wasteful spending in other departments to prevent it? Reminds me of the pleas on the state and local levels in California, that if you don't agree to our tax demands, we will let prisoners out if jail and cut the fire department. This is simply government extortion on the national rather than regional level.

The US government has not passed a budget in - how many years? We should furlough the legislative and executive branches.

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 5):
Lets just pass an emergency FAA bill if its so vital.

  

Quoting atct (Reply 7):

We need to cut costs,

Particularly if "we" is the US Government.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 10):
This is a 5% budget cut.

Any agency/business that cannot handle a 5% budget cut is mismanaged. Businesses do this ALL THE TIME. 5% isn't even hard.

Quoting frmrcapcadet (Reply 12):
And posters need to keep in mind that the federal budget roughly represents a concensus of American wishes.

No it doesn't. I'm sorry - the federal budget roughly represents the result of gerrymandering and corruption.

Quoting N766UA (Reply 14):
them to NOT take a damned weeklong vacation

Paid by us of course.

PS - this should probably be in the non-aviation thread. The aviation impact of this out of control spending is miniscule.



rcair1
User currently offlinedreamflight767 From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 86 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (1 year 6 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 10967 times:
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Evening Folks;

Just a reminder to please take a moment and fill-in the blanks of this link to emphasize to those who "run" our country how important it is to resolve this issue:

http://afl.salsalabs.com/o/5893/p/di...dia/action/public/?action_KEY=5541

For those of you traveling in the upcoming weeks or enjoying spring break/St. Patrick's day via air travel will encounter endless security lines and unknown lengthy delays due to air traffic controller and equipment shortages.

Those who are not traveling still benefit from air service(s) and will feel the impact. Since Friday alone, my airport provided services to: Business/Cooperate Aviation, General Aviation, at least two local FBOs, countless neighboring FBOs, countless flight schools - fixed wing/helos - including several large university pilot programs, one of the world's largest helo manufacturing factories, the hospital pad located on airport grounds, local/county/state/federal law enforcement, county fire services, air ambulances, U.S. Coast Guard, pest and agriculture control, power and water helo, and TV news helos.

Each one of the mentioned above received services from some of the best personnel in world who indirectly play a pivotal roll in how we live day-to-day.

Thanks again!


User currently offlinekellmark From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 691 posts, RR: 8
Reply 17, posted (1 year 6 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 10818 times:

I cannot believe the "end of the world as we know it" type of comments above. The Federal Government is the largest bloated bureaucracy in the world. The FAA is no exception to that, although I do agree that there are many other programs that would deserve to be totally eliminated rather than have the FAA budget reduced. Unfortunately, our political system is so corrupt and mismanaged that it has shown itself incapable of even doing that or even producing a legally required budget for more than 3 years. It is a disgrace.

The fact is that the Federal government is basically bankrupt. We have over 16 trillion dollars in debt now and no way to pay that off. 40% of every dollar we spend we simply don't have. It has to be borrowed, taxed or printed, all of which is being done at an outrageous pace. We have a huge spending problem. The spending cuts that would happen are minuscule, basically worth about a week of operations to the entire federal government. The government wastes far more than that just with its gross inefficiencies. But we don't have a choice.

When reductions are necessary, line operations should be prioritized. That could be done here and there would be basically no impact on operations. But politically, that wouldn't work. They want the public to be inconvenienced, to show how "terrible" the effects of a very small cut would be.


User currently offlineKaiarahi From Canada, joined Jul 2009, 2979 posts, RR: 28
Reply 18, posted (1 year 6 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 10774 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 10):
While I do not want anyone laid off, I suspect the FAA has more than 5% waste. Identify that and cut it.
Quoting kellmark (Reply 17):
When reductions are necessary, line operations should be prioritized. That could be done here and there would be basically no impact on operations.

Unfortunately, it looks like they have no choice where to cut. Excerpt from a Feb 7 speech by Michael Huerta (FAA Administrator):

"We anticipate that the Office of Management and Budget would implement sequestration across the board. This would require the FAA to make the cuts equally across all budget line items in the affected accounts. This significantly minimizes the flexibility we would have in managing the budget reductions.

Sequestration would force the FAA to cut back on operating costs by reducing the core services we provide."



Empty vessels make the most noise.
User currently offlineatct From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 2283 posts, RR: 38
Reply 19, posted (1 year 6 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 10766 times:

Quoting IAHFLYR (Reply 13):

You have to know him to understand him! I'm not defending those words, only that he need serious help...thus why we sent him packing to Alaska.

 
Quoting Dreamflight767 (Reply 8):
LOL!!! You obviously haven't worked for the agency that long.

Ive got a few years under my belt with more than just the FAA. I know how the system works. Please discuss the issue and do not attack individuals as per forum guidelines.



I don't know about the other potential government employees on this thread but I have something called a savings account. I was warned years ago that this would happen and have planned accordingly. A little pay cut when I make 3-4x the average household income of the US isn't going to hurt much. I live well within my means and, frankly, am looking forward to some extra time off. I know HR will be backed up with all the paperwork...when aren't they? They aren't held to the same standard and are paid accordingly.

Long story short, If the furlough comes, sorry users. There is nothing I can do to change the happenings but in the mean time I can be smart and plan ahead for how it may affect me. I wont whine on some internet board that "oh no, I'm only going to make $95,000 next year, boo hoo." I know many pilot friends of mine who would love to change positions.



"The way to get started is to quit talking and begin doing." - Walt Disney
User currently offlineblueflyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 3965 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (1 year 6 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 10712 times:
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I don't think life will be that different in March, or April, for that matter. The CBO and other government agencies have already said they understand the law to require annual budget cuts with no obligation to spread them evenly. If agency heads believe letting the deadline is a ploy to force the "other side" to compromise, nothing stops them from delaying budget cuts until later in the year. Instead of applying 1/12 of the cuts to the monthly budget, if there is such a thing, they can apply half of the cuts each to the last two months of the year, effectively shutting down their agency, and be in full compliance with the law.

My guess is this is why some politicians are willing to wait out the deadline, because they know that, in the short term, nothing will change. In March, no one will blame them for being furloughed or having spent three hours more than usual in a TSA line. In fact, most government agencies are not ready to implement cuts on day one anyway.

Quoting IAHFLYR (Reply 4):
And then ORD, ATL, JFK and a few others right behind, in fact start it now

Refusing to perform work that you are expected to is a strike, even if you are just being "early" on a future reality not of your own will.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 10):
The cuts are brutal and *not* going after the waste. In fact, they seem determined to go after programs people care about in an attempt to just raise taxes.

That to me indicates that for once, Congress got it right. The purpose of the sequestration is to make inaction so painful for so many people that it would be simply unacceptable to let it happen and politicians would be forced to make a deal. Refusing to compromise and letting sequestration cuts take effect is a new low I didn't think was physically attainable that we can thank certain ideologue, take-no-prisoners, my-way-or-the-highway members of Congress for.

I can't decide what makes me angrier, the fact that there may not be a deal to avert sequestration come March 1st, or that we are in this situation because of yet another short-term solution from incompetent politicians who seem unable to do more than take half-measures and kick the can down the road. I suppose it is a good sign their own pay will be suspended on March 1st if there's no deal. That their budget for their congressional office is not affected, and that they will get their pay back in full once a deal is signed, is too bad.



I've got $h*t to do
User currently offlineanrec80 From Canada, joined Jan 2011, 141 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 6 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 10527 times:

Quoting kellmark (Reply 17):
When reductions are necessary, line operations should be prioritized. That could be done here and there would be basically no impact on operations. But politically, that wouldn't work. They want the public to be inconvenienced, to show how "terrible" the effects of a very small cut would be.

On the other hand, with sequester being in place, the airports, TSA and other air infrastructure agencies will be forced to seek their required funding in forcing airlines to charge higher fees for their services. Such as airport landing fees and navigation fees will get funneled through to the consumers in terms of higher airfares, or more additional surcharges. Yes, already annoying list of fees will get inevitable longer.

This sequester is only the beginning - ultimately more to come. So air travel will probably be more like a cable bill - travel provider quotes you one thing, and at the end you will end up paying a different price, and you won't necessarily know what will it be.

TSA under these conditions will also want more than $5 they charge right now. Or, say, special pat-down surcharge - Thanksgiving Special for $4.95 only! Highly intimate pat-down from TSA!


User currently onlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8464 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (1 year 6 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 10473 times:

My guess is the FAA used to operate in 1998 on a lot less money, and can do so again.

Of course, people who earn their paycheck through the government will make cuts as unpleasant as possible. This is partly because they want to maintain their family's receipt of hefty government paychecks.


User currently offlinekellmark From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 691 posts, RR: 8
Reply 23, posted (1 year 6 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 10448 times:

Quoting anrec80 (Reply 22):
On the other hand, with sequester being in place, the airports, TSA and other air infrastructure agencies will be forced to seek their required funding in forcing airlines to charge higher fees for their services. Such as airport landing fees and navigation fees will get funneled through to the consumers in terms of higher airfares, or more additional surcharges. Yes, already annoying list of fees will get inevitable longer.

The government we have at present has no problem with raising fees or taxes. In fact they look for "crisis" opportunities all the time, so that they can increase their control on the country. And if they can create one, then so much the better for them.

But any increase in fees or taxes is not done in a vacuum. The airline industry already has 2 major problems. Skyrocketing fuel prices, (again), in large part because of a terrible government policy on energy which literally guarantees more limited supply, and also the effect of an economy which is again contracting, also due to terrible government policies of high regulation and more taxes, such as Obamacare.

If the industry has to raise fares due to higher taxes, fees or higher fuel prices, fewer people will travel. There is a point where there is no extra revenue, no matter how high you raise taxes, as people will find ways to avoid paying them. It becomes a lose-lose deal for everyone. A lot of airline travel is purely discretionary in nature. Leisure travel, visiting family and friends can be largely a choice that can be canceled or delayed. A lot of business can now be done over the internet. Short haul is already way down from before. There are alternatives. The passengers, the airlines and the supporting infrastructure will be diminished in the future, unless we can get some better policies and decision makers.


User currently offlineIAHFLYR From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 4790 posts, RR: 22
Reply 24, posted (1 year 6 months 21 hours ago) and read 10329 times:

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 20):
Refusing to perform work that you are expected to is a strike, even if you are just being "early" on a future reality not of your own will.


Nothing was mentioned regarding refusing to perform work nor a strike!!!!!!! The content was when they (FAA) start reduction of services to start with those airports first. It might be nice to read reply 2 over if you have questions.

Quoting atct (Reply 19):
Please discuss the issue and do not attack individuals as per forum guidelines.


Nicely done.  
Quoting atct (Reply 19):
I live well within my means and, frankly, am looking forward to some extra time off.


Now you're making sense. When you think of how many controllers have been working 6 day weeks and some of those days 10 hour days for the last 3-4 years the numbers are astonishing. Sure they will be looking forward to less work and as you hope their savings has grown with the overtime.

Regardless, it takes XX number of people to staff a facility no matter where it is, when you don't have those numbers services will be reduced from the air traffic side alone. Possibly something as simple as dual/triple simultaneous approaches can't be operated because it takes too many bodies, but then due to pressure from the airlines the facility uses the bodies necessary for that arrival push and cuts other services the controllers. Either way not good.



Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
25 Boeing717200 : I don't want to sound like a jerk or anything, but the operating budget for the FAA comes from the trust fund. It's the administrative functions whic
26 wagz : You may want to check your facts again buddy, because last time I checked I'm a controller, and we all will be getting 11 days of furlough (assuming
27 Boeing717200 : Says the political appointees trying to drum up fear in the rank and file. Your salary comes form airlines ticket taxes and fuel taxes. The only thin
28 FlyPNS1 : The trust fund is simply a stream of revenue, but it has NOTHING to do with the sequestration and it cannot prevent cuts. As is, the trust fund does
29 Post contains links Boeing717200 : Sequestration does not impact off budget accounts that cannot be raided like the AATF. Only $3 billion of the FAAs total $15 billion budget relies on
30 Kaiarahi : According to the FAA Adminstrator: "Sequestration would force the FAA to cut back on operating costs by reducing the core services we provide."
31 bobloblaw : Let the sequester happen. You can bet there are thousands of threads like thus one urging readers to contact congress over one program or another. The
32 Post contains links Boeing717200 : According to a political appointee. A slightly dated but mostly accurate fact sheet on the AATF. The claims of draconian FAA cuts simply don't jive w
33 FlyPNS1 : You're confusing the revenue side of the ledger with the expense side. Regardless of how much revenue the FAA takes in via the AATF, they have been d
34 Boeing717200 : They have an obligation to shield the ops budget, ATC in particular. Claiming they won't is a scare tactic to get what they want. This is political,
35 IAHFLYR : Was that in 2011 or last year? Regardless they did not furlough essential employees such as controllers or support staff however; many working on spe
36 slider : NO it most certainly does not!! The oligarchs spend as they wish, irrespective of the wishes of the people. Let's be clear on that. It's been 1,392 d
37 Boeing717200 : Late 2011. I think they signed the reauthorization in 2012. Seems longer ago than that. But yeah, non-op suffered however operations continued even w
38 FlyPNS1 : The FAA Budget Reauthorization was only about the F&E budget, so of course there was no impact on operations. However, this time the cuts will co
39 IAHFLYR : Now you're on to something which should have a crime scene tape around the entire organization! IMHO it is incredible how much those folks have waste
40 Boeing717200 : Flight procedures is a mess too. Been working on some RNP projects lately and it's insane the way they are inflexible in the scheduling of procedure
41 IAHFLYR : They'll be part of a furlough as well which will certainly toss the entire slow charting process into a toilet. Then that backlog will spill over int
42 Flighty : They need to hire budget analysts and learn how to make *more* product on far, far less money. That's how the rest of us ALL do it.
43 Post contains images lightsaber : This country will suffer in 15 years due to all the R&D cuts. I came out of aerospace R&D. The money isn't there anywhere. Any more cutting a
44 Post contains links Kaiarahi : FWIW, air navigation services have been privatized in Canada: http://www.navcanada.ca/NavCanada.as...efinitionFilesAboutUsDefault.xml Seems to be work
45 bobloblaw : Yup. But it will never be privatized in the USA. It is a dumping ground for political patronage. The usual suspects will scare monger and say a priva
46 Flighty : Yes, but it doesn't justify continuing on this path. Most of those 5-10 million should not have been hired. The market didn't pay for them; political
47 mmedford : The reality is; most of the critical restorations that happen which are unseen by the public are possible because of the ability to purchase tools, m
48 superjeff : Not so sure. The administration is very much idealogically driven. Sequestration was proposed by Obama, not Congress. And most people are more concer
49 NBGSkyGod : To be totally honest, the FAA needs to look at further (not total) privatization of some of the slower D and C primary towers over to the FCT program.
50 atct : Says the FCT Controller. Im not splittng hairs because whether I want to or not, as an employee of a certain group, I therefore represent them. I did
51 NBGSkyGod : I actually agree 100% to what you say most of the functions of ATC need to remain wholly with the government under the FAA. Where it all falls down,
52 bobloblaw : Yet Canada and Australia make it work.
53 OOsnowRat : If that $483 million number is actually true, that would reduce the FAA operations budget to its 2009-2010 amount. I don't remember it being the end o
54 IAHFLYR : It wasn't, but you could it from there!! Sad thing is, a good number of larger facilities are not overstaffed but understaffed with CPC's. Developmen
55 Post contains links NBGSkyGod : The FAA just put out the list of possible facility closure. http://www.faa.gov/news/updates/media/Facilities_Could_Be_Closed.pdf
56 IAHFLYR : WOW that is quite a list....places that have quite a bit of traffic among those that don't, incredible.
57 FlyPNS1 : Not quite. Remember, this $483million cut has to be absorbed in a ~6 month window of time (roughly April 1 - Sept 30 since you're required to provide
58 NBGSkyGod : What is interesting about the list, is the seemingly random facilities they are closing.
59 mmedford : No I don't want to hear make it work...I want actual numbers, because that's the reality having a system unavaliable .1% of the time is 9 hours; whic
60 GEsubsea : Crazy times are ahead for the flying public if this sequester comes to pass March 1st. Ray Lahood is on the record today in the Houston Chronicle prov
61 Boeing717200 : Political appointees (including former ones) are workin' hard today! Run for the hills! The end is coming! The trust fund is sitting on a nearly $10
62 NBGSkyGod : The idea of privatizing the whole system will never happen. There are some aspects of the operation that should always be in the hands of the governm
63 FlyPNS1 : Because you don't use the surplus to cover regular operating expenses. Not to mention, the surplus is fake money. There's nothing there...just a bunc
64 ltbewr : Another downside with operations cuts by the FAA is that fewer planes will be able to operate, so along with higher fuel costs and labor costs that ca
65 Ken777 : While there are all kinds of a horror stories related to the sequestration I have no doubts that the airlines have been planning for it. They can look
66 Boeing717200 : No, there is $10.570 billion in the account right now, cash on hand. The AATF is an off budget trust fund that has a cash surplus. It was taken off b
67 rickabone : As an Air Traffic Controller at SFO, I am mainly worried that sequestration could affect safety. Staffing levels at many ATC facilities do not really
68 Boeing717200 : I feel for you guys. Nothing like being a pawn hung out to dry by politicos. To be fair, sequestration was the Presidents idea. Can't blame congress
69 ikramerica : The total sequester cuts are 1.5% of the US budget. A budget that is already growing at 2% or so. It's a positive cut, in that the growth is now only
70 707lvr : I don't know which is sadder, the people who are dumb enough not to understand "baseline" and the massive fraud that is being played on the American p
71 rickabone : True, but it was the President's idea that sequestration cuts would be so drastic and painful for both sides that it would force a compromise.
72 Post contains links rickabone : http://www.faa.gov/news/updates/media/Facilities_Could_Be_Closed.pdf
73 rickabone : Almost everything you said is wrong. In several cases of ATC Tower privatization and most definitely in the case of the privatization of Flight Servi
74 Post contains links rickabone :
75 rickabone : STATEMENT FROM NATCA PRESIDENT PAUL RINALDI: “Today’s announcement from the FAA unfortunately confirms the concerns we have been warning about for
76 Post contains links rickabone : POLITICO: "The March 1 sequester will mean shutting down midnight shifts at 60 air traffic control towers nationwide, and more than 100 closed air tra
77 rickabone : What's really bankrupting US, as in the people of this nation is the economic downturn. Austerity measures such as this sequestration have been shown
78 gemuser : Australia does not have privatised ATC or airways. Air Services Australia is a government owned corporation. Gemuser
79 Kaiarahi : Depends how you structure it. Nav Canada, which provides services throughout Canada, is a private sector non-share capital corporation - i.e. there i
80 nkops : So what does this mean for airlines flying into uncontrolled fields.... do any airlines have rules against this ?
81 Post contains links NBGSkyGod : wow, that is some NATCA kool-aid if I have ever heard it, and even they have backed off from that position. The fact is, if it wasn't for the FCT, th
82 FlyPNS1 : There's $10.57 billion in IOU's in an account, yes. There's no cash. It's no different than the Social Security Trust fund which has tons of "cash" o
83 Dreamflight767 : I'll reinforce that Air Services Australia is a function of the government. I cannot comment on a profit motive. But, I will say after some communica
84 Flighty : More and more I believe the "government industry" is gleefully putting its boot on the neck of taxpayers to continue their infinite funding. FAA is la
85 mcoatc : I had no idea that RVA and Midwest were non-profits. I assume they return to the government any monies that exceed their cost of operations?
86 MasseyBrown : Unfortunately the way the sequester is written, the agencies will not be allowed to cut selectively. The reduction applies to every budget element an
87 Post contains links rickabone : You are calling Serco a not-for-profit operation?!?!?! You can't be serious! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serco_Group & The controllers that I kn
88 Post contains links rickabone : This is Serco... This is who is in charge of most of privatized ATC in the US: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szNLMtgI7hU
89 rickabone : Agreed, as are skyguide in Europe, and in that situation, when properly regulated by the government, it isn't so bad, but they are still providing an
90 Post contains links rickabone : You should've read the well researched study on the topic before you drank the privatization Kool-Aid: http://www.controladoresaereos.org/w.../pitfal
91 NBGSkyGod : That may be one of the more ignorant comments I have seen in a while. I am unaware as what these companies do with the excess monies that are paid to
92 NBGSkyGod : Here is the problem with that report, it was 1. commissioned by NATCA at the same time they filed the lawsuit to stop the further privatizing of FAA
93 mcoatc : Listen cranky pants, you need not be rude (which seems to be your only tone) because I asked for clarification to something that you wrote. You are c
94 rickabone : These private ATC firms are making a profit off of their ATC services... It just doesn't come from user fees, but rather the taxpayers who's money the
95 rickabone : The profit comes from getting money from the government by placing the highest bid that they think will still be a winning bid and then cutting costs
96 NBGSkyGod : My apologies, I read that more as sarcasm then a question. I was trying to answer your question though. I do not know where the excess monies go, if
97 Boeing717200 : Considering the pay cuts the private sector has taken, maybe you should take a 7% pay cut (most of which would come out of your incredibly generous b
98 mmedford : Hell I think all federal employees should do their parts to help the federal budget, instead of taking 1 day per pay period...Why not just take the la
99 rcair1 : Which is a mistake.
100 rickabone : Austerity in general is a bad idea... When an economy is stalled or recessing, deficit spending is often necessary to pull an economy out of that sit
101 rickabone : Our pay and benefit packages aren't anything close to what they used to be. Many facility levels have been cut (lowering the pay bands), and the bene
102 kellmark : Exactly right. The worst thing that could happen to all of those that are telling us that the "world is ending" because they can't handle a small cut
103 Flighty : One of the best things about the private sector is, sometimes you shrink (and get rid of dead wood). And sometimes your grow, _when there is a need_.
104 Boeing717200 : Lowering of pay bands isn't a pay cut. It just means the new guy is paid less. Older employees are fenced and continue on with the same pay and perks
105 FlyPNS1 : I don't work in the FAA first of all. And I'm telling you that the money is not there. It's just a bunch of worthless government IOU's. Again, the go
106 ltbewr : One thing this will probably hurt is the NexGen ATC program, slowing it's badly needed changes it will eventually bring. I suspect the way the cuts ha
107 MasseyBrown : The classic bureaucratic maneuver, of course, is to shut down every productive field activity while the Washington Hqs will hire staff and go on overt
108 cjg225 : This. Sometimes you have to spend money to save money, as the saying goes. NextGen, even if it doesn't fully meet expectations, should have a massive
109 Flighty : Bingo. This is a fairly transparent aggression against the American people. Bureaucrats ask: how can we disrupt the people as much as possible, in or
110 FlyPNS1 : For years now, conservatives and a good chunk of the American populace have railed on the evils of government and how awful government workers were.
111 kellmark : This is not a conservative or liberal problem. And most of us do not "revile" government workers. There are a great many very professional hard worki
112 IAHFLYR : NextGen is a complete joke. What benefits do the customers of the FAA find and how long does it take to implement them? Is it similar to how the FAA
113 Flighty : Government has doubled since the days of Bill Clinton. I am incredulous that govt workers may have this kicked dog mentality. American people are the
114 frmrCapCadet : The utter and ficticious things asserted as facts on this thread has been astounding.
115 IAHFLYR : Just for fun, what fictitious things do you find on this thread asserted as facts? Just a curious mind asking!
116 Post contains links rwessel : A true statement only if you look at non-inflation adjusted spending numbers, and ignore growth in GDP. http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...ys-gov
117 Post contains links mayor : I can't imagine the airlines standing for any of this......if it comes about, flights from large metro areas to smaller cities will be cut and some sm
118 IAHFLYR : Why odd? You may only be the Mayor but look at the administration!
119 ATCtower : What often isnt acknowledged is that most of the smaller airports go 'uncontrolled' at night anyway. That said, if these BS cuts were to take place,
120 IAHFLYR : You are so correct. Just wait till the first dumba$$ forgets to cancel IFR either in the air or on the ground and you have to go looking for them. Le
121 FlyPNS1 : There were more federal employees 20 years ago than there are today. But that's almost entirely Social Security, Medicare/Medicaid and Defense, not t
122 Post contains images lightsaber : Unfortunately ATC is something we care about, so the government is threatening to cut that rather than the waste. But at some point, one has to 'starv
123 IAHFLYR : The employees have always had to pay their share of health insurance.....mine was a nice sum when I was working. I won't go so far as to say unsafe h
124 kellmark : That is exactly the point. It cannot be sustained. It is a "Potemkin Village" of manufactured, false activity that we will have to pay for. And these
125 cjg225 : There better be no mention of XNA! I'm flying out of there on March 1st!
126 sccutler : Fret not - even if the control tower were closed, it would serve as no impediment to airport operations. Airplanes can come and go, they'll just have
127 Post contains images IAHFLYR : In some cases with much less delay!
128 cjg225 : Hah. I know. We've had to deal without a tower here at SCE from the time the airport opened until only about 18 month ago (13 years w/out a tower). B
129 mmedford : Not the first uncontrolled airfield in history.
130 cjg225 : But if you're used to flying into a controlled airfield for a long time and then it's uncontrolled, couldn't that cause a bit of a problem, operation
131 Flighty : Oh I agree - you would think it has nothing to do with FAA, especially since FAA is (entirely?) self funded. But, folks like the military and Medicar
132 IAHFLYR : Not a problem more of an inconvenience operationally as under IFR flight plans it is one in and one out, still a bit slower. Most of these towers (FA
133 ATCtower : While I dont offend easily, this came close. Seeing you clearly have no idea what you are talking about I will cut a little slack but not much. FAA e
134 FlyPNS1 : They why is CEO and management pay at record levels? If the private sector is so devastated, why is income for those at the top 10% of American skyro
135 FreequentFlier : Quite frankly, many of us are not concerned if you're offended. And yes, your pensions should be modified to exclusively defined contribution plans,
136 Post contains images IAHFLYR : Nope, read it again and you'll see that is not the case. Increasing a risk doesn't' t mean it is totally unsafe as you seem to imply. Flying is a ris
137 Post contains images mayor : The only reason I thought that it was odd that XNA (WalMart International ) was not mentioned was that two larger airports, LIT and TUL might be subj
138 Post contains links kellmark : Hey Tower. (First, thanks for being in the classes). I do not favor privatizing the FAA. What the comments above were about was that if one believes
139 Post contains images IAHFLYR : Very well said and more!!!
140 Dreamflight767 : Actually, indirectly, you do work for us. Tax dollars from YOUR pocket provide FAA funding. Furthermore, Controllers provide a SERVICE to the Nationa
141 FreequentFlier : You seem confused how this works. If your salary comes from our pockets, it's because we're paying your salary. Thus ultimately it is the American ci
142 IAHFLYR : When it kicks in and you are flying into a major airport expect to miss your meeting, connection or whatever else you had planned that resulted in yo
143 lightsaber : You extrapolated my comment and I see why. So I should appologize.. I do not want to pay the taxes on the pensions that allow a far earlier and bette
144 Dreamflight767 : This has been my point since starting the thread. The intention was never to point fingers or offer a specific solution. Political figures are using
145 ATCtower : Believe me, pleasure was all mine, it was great having an intelligent professor (and most knowledgeable aviation nut I have ever met) to always bounc
146 Post contains links KarlB737 : It looks like Allegiant will evaluate each city to see if they will maintain service: Courtesy: Northwest Indiana Times Possible Gary Tower Closing Ha
147 mrocktor : We have built a situation where you basically cannot tie your shoes in the aviation industry without government permission. Because, you know, people
148 SPREE34 : The feds don't have defined benefit anymore. Take a look at what happend to the federal employee retirement system in 1984. Had a lot of the private
149 FlyPNS1 : But we have plenty of evidence of that being true. Look back to the airline industry of the 1930's, 40's and 50's when there was little safety regula
150 mayor : Well, there was very little of ANY type of safety regulation in those years, not just in the aviation industry, but in most industries. Unfortunately
151 rickabone : First of all, there are lots of people retiring or very close to retirement. So yes, you will see a drastic decrease in salary expenditures for the a
152 rickabone : And this, my friends, is exactly what is wrong with this nation. While the wealthy financier class is making out like bandits, profiting greater than
153 rickabone : You clearly have not studied how we got into this mess or how we or any other nation got into recessions in the past and how they got out of them. Go
154 mrocktor : The assumption that humans only learn from mistakes if forced to do so by a government official is the one I do not share.
155 freakyrat : Some of the FAA support for Sun N Fun has been cancelled also some FAA support for Oshkosh may be threatened.
156 atct : I pay most of my health insurance. That insurance is also crap compared to what I recieved at a crappy regional. I am also paid alot more, thus I can
157 kellmark : I do know how we got into this mess. Massive overspending over many years. But it has never been as bad as it is now. It sounds like you think that a
158 rwessel : Completely backwards. Early stimulus was easing the country (and other countries that were doing the same) out of the depression, but sudden and very
159 Post contains links FreequentFlier : Mike Boyd's March 4th Hot Flash aviation column does a wonderful job of digging into the FAA's budget as compared to years prior. Then he digs into t
160 kellmark : Of course when the government goes crazy in a war and spends far beyond its means it goes heavily into debt selling war bonds, etc. And in many cases
161 michiganatc : I actually work in a Tower/TRACON combo facility as a Controller and I can tell you firsthand that the above numbers mean nothing. It doesn't matter
162 michiganatc : One more thing: Yes, traffic is down across the nation. This is why the FAA downgraded over 3/4 of Air Traffic Facilities nationwide over 14 months a
163 FlyPNS1 : Except that Boyd's analysis ignores this little thing called inflation...which undercuts much of his argument. Adjusting for inflation, the FAA's bud
164 FreequentFlier : Key point - does the POST-sequester FAA budget eclipse the pace of inflation since 2008? And does it do so despite much fewer departures and enplanem
165 michiganatc : We need more Air Traffic Controllers because of attrition, not automation upgrades. Nearly half of the Controlers in my facility are either eligible
166 FlyPNS1 : Who said that? The FAA has been trying to reduce the number of controllers and the number has been declining. However, the FAA often faces a fight wh
167 FreequentFlier : So if more senior controllers are retiring in favor of less senior controllers, we need a LARGER budget? Again, does not compute. Fair enough, but I
168 michiganatc : The larger budget is to compensate for NEXTGEN and ERAM. Great idea, just typical overspending. Also, to support the abnormally large amount of train
169 FlyPNS1 : Again, you ignore how staffing works. Just because traffic is down 10% doesn't mean you can cut staffing 10% or even anything close to that. As I sai
170 michiganatc : I'm hearing of talks now inside the FAA that Sun n' Fun and Oshkosh will possibly be cancelled if the furloughs actually take place. This is beacuse O
171 SPREE34 : I doubt it. FAA doesn't fund these two events, and non-towered procedures would be used. The promoters could probably find some out of work contract
172 freakyrat : Quoting michiganatc (Reply 170): I'm hearing of talks now inside the FAA that Sun n' Fun and Oshkosh will possibly be cancelled.... What is actually h
173 atct : The towers during these events are staffed by FAA controllers. From what Ive read, Sun n Fun is a no-go for FAA controllers. I dont know anything abo
174 NBGSkyGod : LAL and OSH are both losing their contract controllers as of April 7. So both fields will no longer be providing ATC services, and since it is doubtf
175 michiganatc : All I know it's not looking too good. The only thing that may save Sun n Fun is that the furlough notices haven't been received yet by many controlle
176 rickabone : A word of warning to Bay Area pilots. I am an Air Traffic Controller at SFO, instrument rated pilot. SQL is one of the potential contract towers that
177 freakyrat : We are not supporting Sun N Fun with a Auxiliary FSS and may not support Oshkosh is because operating them is outside the FSS Contract with the FAA an
178 LONGisland89 : My furlough date is May 14th. Coming back for the new fiscal year in October is a big maybe also. Thanks Washington.
179 Dreamflight767 : Forgive me if I missed this but there is one issue I don't understand: Controllers are legally not allowed to strike (I image because of the detriment
180 lightsaber : That is just mis-management. I'm sorry to hear that. Are you full time furlough (no job) or as per other FAA employees? Lightsaber
181 NBGSkyGod : It looks like the FAA and the FCT program will not be suffering too badly as congress has passed the Moran amendment allowing funding at least through
182 mastyc : I believe, not completely sure, that the Moran amendment that was passed was for horse meat. He has introduced like 5 amendments in the last few week
183 ATCtower : Oh, they are allowed to call in pseudo-overtime for these instances. Catch is, if you are called in for OT on a week that contains one of your furlou
184 NBGSkyGod : So it appears that I was wrong, congress has yet to pass the Moran amendment as of earlier today.
185 NBGSkyGod : Call me a pessimist, but I have a sinking feeling that none of these bills will either be voted on before April 7, or will not pass. They were suppose
186 Dreamflight767 : Nobody knows what's going on. Furthermore, I feel nobody in D.C. really cares. I'll maintain that this is some sort of scam for politicians to line t
187 NBGSkyGod : The really sad part, is I could respect it if I thought they were just trying to line their pockets, I really think it is more childish than that, it
188 NBGSkyGod : The FAA has said that they will be releasing the final closure list at some point today.
189 Dreamflight767 : This will be interesting. I understand that this is the "first" round as well. The potential for more closures is possible and, if no budget is passed
190 NBGSkyGod : The sad fact is that once these towers close it will most likely spell the end of the FCT program. The contracts are up for negotiations in the near f
191 Post contains links freakyrat : Here is a list of the Contract Towers that will close according to the FAA. http://www.faa.gov/news/media/fct_closed.pdf
192 Flighty : I say bring it on. Government industry players will absolutely attack American taxpayers with every bludgeon they can. There will be fireworks. But Am
193 Post contains links ATCtower : The biggest gripe I/we/you(should) have with this is ATC DOES pay for itself because the people HAVE demanded it and the government has admitted its
194 Post contains images lightsaber : The problem is that the FAA had areas that didn't impact the public as obviously to cut... So I wonder if this is just going to expose the political
195 Post contains links NBGSkyGod : Nashua (KASH) is taking their closure personally. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6vu3...2fBM4&feature=youtube_gdata_player
196 Post contains links thenoflyzone : Anyone know which one of these airports has the most annual aircraft movements? Just wondering if any come close to the 150,000 movement limit the FA
197 Boeing717200 : So we can assume all the useless bureaucrats down on Independence Ave. will also be staying home? Oh wait, that has no impact on the public. Lay off t
198 ATCtower : No, and thats what has so many of us 'safety necessary professionals' so pissed off... Congress/Senate/Admin takes NO, NONE, ZERO, ZILCH, NADA for cu
199 mmedford : I've said it for years around here...and you know what I think? No one cares what I think. nothing will change in this industry until there is blood
200 NBGSkyGod : Another question that has yet to be asked, is what will happen to the FCT companies once the majority of their towers close? Will they still be viable
201 IAHFLYR : IMHO both RVA and Midwest should remain viable as they have other aviation related businesses/contracts, but I'd guess tower closures would take a ch
202 NBGSkyGod : It looks like the FCT shutdown will be conducted in several stages with the first batch closing on April 7, and the last ones closing around May 5. An
203 Post contains links IAHFLYR : This was posted in another thread, but it looks like someone has stepped up to the plate at least in The Republic of Texas! http://www.star-telegram.c
204 Post contains links LAXintl : Tower closings delayed till June 5th as FAA works through legalities. F.A.A. Delays Closings of Airport Towers Forced by Cuts http://www.nytimes.com/2
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