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DOT Invites Carriers To Apply For New Brazil Slots  
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25148 posts, RR: 46
Posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 26920 times:

DOT has issues notice that it invites carriers to submit application for award of additional rights that are becoming available between the nations.

While the US and Brazil in 2011 reach and agreement to establish openskies, the agreement has stages that slowly liberalize market access through 2016.

Under the agreed terms, the US side is afforded the following additional rights effective October 2013:

Passenger carriers:
o 14 weekly frequencies to any point in Brazil
o 14 weekly frequencies to any Brazil point except Sao Paulo
o 14 weekly frequencies to any Brazil point except Sao Paulo or Rio de Janeiro.

Cargo carrier rights:
o 14 weekly frequencies to any point in Brazil


Application submissions are due by March 2, 2013.


It is important to note that US side already has 24 unallocated passenger frequencies along with 34 cargo frequencies, however none are available to the coveted Sao Paulo and Rio markets.


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
263 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineB6JFKH81 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2882 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 26975 times:

Hello B6, you are now at the corner of:



A thread a few weeks ago said they were looking to go to Brazil from FLL, not sure what cities the A320 will make it to from there, but this is an opportunity.



"If you do not learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it"
User currently onlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16859 posts, RR: 51
Reply 2, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 26943 times:

UA should apply for EWR-GIG.


Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8339 posts, RR: 7
Reply 3, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 26911 times:
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OH can you smell the opportunity CLT ? Brazil the close and welcoming of Americans Emerging market country. Usairways should take advantage of this like a duck to water. A330 to GRU is the goal.

User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25148 posts, RR: 46
Reply 4, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 26853 times:

JetBlue could start Brazil tomorrow. As mentioned there are 24 unallocated weekly frequencies available.

These new slot opportunities are really only a beneficial for carriers that seek to serve hard to get access in Rio or Sao Paulo - two markets too far for an A320 (they are ~4100miles)



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20541 posts, RR: 62
Reply 5, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 26806 times:

Inevitable question: Which are the largest unserved nonstop markets from the US to GRU and GIG, and what are their PDEWs?


International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineRoseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9607 posts, RR: 52
Reply 6, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 26798 times:

Translation. 14 weekly to GRU. 14 weekly to GIG. 14 additional slots that won't be used at all.


If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineRoseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9607 posts, RR: 52
Reply 7, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 26726 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 5):
Inevitable question: Which are the largest unserved nonstop markets from the US to GRU and GIG, and what are their PDEWs?

Good question for GRU. I'm curious if AA would be interested in LAX, since Korean doesn't really count.

I have a feeling that any additional slots would go to adding frequency over new destinations. Other than LAX, I can't think of any other hub that would be able to fill the slots that doesn't have a flight already. Maybe PHL, but that's a long shot with CLT coming.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32736 posts, RR: 72
Reply 8, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 26723 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 3):

OH can you smell the opportunity CLT ? Brazil the close and welcoming of Americans Emerging market country. Usairways should take advantage of this like a duck to water. A330 to GRU is the goal.


US begins CLTGRU in June; not long before AA discontinues it.



a.
User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7569 posts, RR: 25
Reply 9, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 26604 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 3):
OH can you smell the opportunity CLT ?

Nope, sure cant.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 5):
Inevitable question: Which are the largest unserved nonstop markets from the US to GRU and GIG, and what are their PDEWs?

Id have to look, but Im pretty sure Boston is the largest market in the US without nonstop service to Brazil.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 8):
US begins CLTGRU in June; not long before AA discontinues it.

I dont know. CLT-GRU may not be a bad flight if they can get the times right.



Stewed...Lewd...Crude...Irreverent...Belligerent
User currently offlineCODC10 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2406 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 26488 times:

Resumption of the former CO EWR-GIG with a sUA 767-300ER makes sense.

User currently offlineRoseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9607 posts, RR: 52
Reply 11, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 26423 times:

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 9):
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 8):
US begins CLTGRU in June; not long before AA discontinues it.

I dont know. CLT-GRU may not be a bad flight if they can get the times right.

CLT is the third biggest hub in the US based on single airline passenger numbers just behind DFW. There is far more connecting traffic that goes through CLT than MIA, so it wouldn't surprise me if there is still a market even after a merger. It might in fact grow with the AA brand strong in South America and all the connection opportunities in CLT.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlinemartinrpo1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 63 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 26330 times:

LAX-GRU, LAX-GIG, and PHL-GRU (now with the merger) could work for AA. I see them applying to more secondary cities such as Fortaleza, Curitiba, Campinas, and Natal from MIA.

User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3119 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 26272 times:

The big three being GIG, GRU and BSB

As WAG's go I can see F9 from asking for DEN-GIG for no other reason than to connect the Olympic training facility in COS.

AS from somewhere but not necessarily SEA Im not sure if the 738 or 739 has the range to fly non-stop SEA- Brazil possibly from ATL or MCI.

I would also think somewhere on the U.S. Canadian border. Other cities/airports in play would be MIA, ATL, NYC, DFW, CLT and LAX

As armchair route planning goes I also wonder if there might be an opportunity for B6 from SJU to any of the Brazil three Possibly using MCO as a launching city. SJU being a U.S. territory should qualify as a U.S. open sky city



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3699 posts, RR: 19
Reply 14, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 26186 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
none are available to the coveted Sao Paulo and Rio markets.

Actually, 7 are immediately available for GIG service.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 2):

UA should apply for EWR-GIG.
Quoting CODC10 (Reply 10):

Resumption of the former CO EWR-GIG with a sUA 767-300ER makes sense.

If UA were interested, they would have already started the route, since like I mentioned, there are 7 GIG-eligible frequencies available.


User currently offlinemhkansan From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 676 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 26063 times:

Brazil is amazingly important for AA. I wonder if we'll see the maturation of ORD-GRU/GIG service on AA or perhaps additions to secondary markets from DFW or more frequencies from MIA... LAX-GRU perhaps?

I sure hope we'll see a strong submission for new service from AA!


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32736 posts, RR: 72
Reply 16, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 26052 times:

Quoting martinrpo1 (Reply 12):

LAX-GRU, LAX-GIG, and PHL-GRU (now with the merger) could work for AA. I see them applying to more secondary cities such as Fortaleza, Curitiba, Campinas, and Natal from MIA.


LAXGIG wold never work. PHLGRU makes no sense when AA flies JFKGRU twice a day. LAXGRU I don't think is too far fetched, especially because AA will have 2-class 772s in about a year.

AA has already announced Curitiba. It and Porto Alegre launch in November 2013.



a.
User currently offlinepoint2point From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 2757 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 26047 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 5):
Inevitable question: Which are the largest unserved nonstop markets from the US to GRU and GIG, and what are their PDEWs?

PDEWs - not really that much, other than the New York City area, Miami, and Orlando......

Brazil-U.S.A is a long distance. The flight with the least distance is MIA-MAO, and that is 2400+ milies. Most flights are are in the 4000-5000 miles range.

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 11):
CLT is the third biggest hub in the US based on single airline passenger numbers just behind DFW. There is far more connecting traffic that goes through CLT than MIA, so it wouldn't surprise me if there is still a market even after a merger. It might in fact grow with the AA brand strong in South America and all the connection opportunities in CLT.

CLT-GIG is about a total of 20 pax per day, even with its nonstop. CLT-GRU is about another 20 pax per day. Really don't want to be bubble-busting here, but I really have doubts that this flight is going to remain...... in fact..... probably one of the first routes the new AA/US cuts.........

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
It is important to note that US side already has 24 unallocated passenger frequencies along with 34 cargo frequencies, however none are available to the coveted Sao Paulo and Rio markets.

I can see why. Of the top 50 U.S. metro area, the New York City area, Miami, Chicago, Los Angeles, Orlando, San Francisco, Washington DC and oddly enough Las Vegas manage anything over 100 pax per day to Sao Paulo ( Boston is at 102, but.....).

And of the 50 top metro areas in the U.S...... other than the NYC area, Miami, and Orlando, Los Angeles and Houston, most major metro area barely manage anything near 50 pax per day in the U.S. - Rio market.......

Unless anyone is predicting that the U.S. - Brazil market is going to be growing in leaps and bounds...... there is currently probably more than enough nonstops in this market.



 


User currently offlinejayunited From United States of America, joined Jan 2013, 925 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 26005 times:

Brazil is a growing market on its own and it will continue to grow especially with the World Cup and the Olympics coming to Brazil in 2014 and 2016 we probably will see AA, DL, UA and US start adding flights into Brazil. I think AA/US will probably add the most flights followed closely by DL then I can see UA adding maybe 1 or 2 flights but UA would probably only add flights to the major cities and leave the secondary cities to AA and DL.

User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32736 posts, RR: 72
Reply 19, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 25882 times:

Quoting point2point (Reply 17):
Unless anyone is predicting that the U.S. - Brazil market is going to be growing in leaps and bounds...... there is currently probably more than enough nonstops in this market.

But it is growing by leaps and bounds. It is has more than tripled in the last three years and growing around 15% annually.



a.
User currently offlinesteex From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 1645 posts, RR: 9
Reply 20, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 25856 times:

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 13):
As WAG's go I can see F9 from asking for DEN-GIG for no other reason than to connect the Olympic training facility in COS.

AS from somewhere but not necessarily SEA Im not sure if the 738 or 739 has the range to fly non-stop SEA- Brazil possibly from ATL or MCI.

I would also think somewhere on the U.S. Canadian border. Other cities/airports in play would be MIA, ATL, NYC, DFW, CLT and LAX

I think you're greatly underestimating how far Brazil is from the USA, especially the western USA. Neither AS nor F9 operates an aircraft that can make it from the 50 states to GRU/GIG non-stop. DEN-GIG is 5085nm, slightly longer than DEN-NRT. Even MIA, which is the closest major US airport to Brazil, is over 3500nm from both GIG and GRU. A potential MIA-GRU would be about 600nm than the world's longest 737 flight, which is of course operated by a 73G.


User currently offlinereffado From Brazil, joined Feb 2012, 226 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 25837 times:

If another destination is served from BSB, I'd be impressed. Currently only connected to ATL and MIA, I could see a NYC-BSB flight. Well, I can at least dream about it.

User currently onlineadamh8297 From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 889 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 25799 times:

Quoting point2point (Reply 17):
( Boston is at 102, but.....).

BOS-Brazil is about 150 PDEW and only tertiary markets not even served via MIA have grown at a decent rate but still are small 5-10 PDEW markets.

Clearly not enough for any United States Carrier to jump on a Brazil route.
Not high yielding enough for JJ to try it and connect to other deep South America as well.
Good enough for CM to try BOS-PTY and steal some traffic from AA and DL though!


Maybe someday with a change in US immigration laws, change in Brazilian visa laws, shift in global economics we may see BOS-GRU. It could be 2-3 decades easily.


User currently offlineklkla From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 932 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 25771 times:

DL will probably apply for LAX-GRU just to get a.netters riled up about dart boards again.

User currently offlinepoint2point From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 2757 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 25723 times:

Here are the 2011 daily pax numbers of the Top 35 U.S metro areas international markets as from the recent Brookings Institute report "to and from" Sao Paulo and Rio.

http://www.brookings.edu/research/interactives/aviation

....metro area..... Sao Paulo.... Rio

1 …. nyc …… 1167 …… 477
2 …. mia …… 1250 …… 354
3 …. lax …… 311 …… 104
4 …. sfo …… 147 …… 58
5 …. ord …… 198 …… 40
6 …. iad …… 134 …… 52
7 …. mco …… 907 …… 363
8 …. bos …… 102 …… 47
9 …. las …… 212 …… 57
10 … hnl …… 10 …… 6
11 … iah …… 67 …… 147
12 … atl …… 77 …… 38
13 … sea …… 31 …… 10
14 … dfw …… 72 …… 27
15 … phl …… 26 …… 11
16 … dtw …… 67 …… 8
17 … den …… 35 …… 15
18 … msp …… 25 …… 7
19 … phx …… 18 …… 7
20 … san …… 50 …… 22
21 … tpa …… 20 …… 14
22 … clt …… 20 …… 19
23 … pdx …… 13 …… 5
24 … bwi …… 9 …… 12
25 … rdu …… 19 …… 6
26 … stl …… 18 …… 4
27 … slc …… 21 …… 7
28 … pit …… 13 …… 5
29 … ind …… 19 …… 3
30 … msy …… 13 …… 17
31 … cle …… 16 …… 4
32 … mci …… 8 …… 3
33 … sat …… 8 …… 5
34 … aus …… 14 …… 6
35 … cvg …… 12 …… 5

…total.......5,129.........1,965



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 19):
But it is growing by leaps and bounds. It is has more than tripled in the last three years and growing around 15% annually.

I think that it's going to have to grow more than that to fill the current available slots that are present......

Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 22):
BOS-Brazil is about 150 PDEW

Okay....numbers above here are 2011 pax numbers and are stated as "to and from", so per this report, BOS would have a total of 102 + 47, or 149 here in total "to and from" both Sao Paulo and Rio. However, this is in total, not in each direction, at least this is how I would interpret the "to and from" numbers in this report.


 

[Edited 2013-02-15 17:33:24]

25 C010T3 : Well, perhaps we could see that. DL going after a second daily ATL-GRU is another possibility. It's also possible that US Airways will apply for CLT-
26 flyby519 : Maybe MAO? Thats about it for ~2500nm from FLL, right?
27 TR1 : How about DL JFK-GIG?
28 adamh8297 : You are correct - Brookings report is to and from you have to divide all your numbers you crunched by two to get the each way part. Also, #2 market t
29 md94 : I would love to see someone try a direct VCP flight to avoid GRU traffic and delays. Maybe DFW, ATL or MIA - VCP?
30 LAXintl : Well we all know how well it worked out for DL last time with LAX-GRU. Lasted what - a whole 7 months along with a suspension for a few weeks in betw
31 GentFromAlaska : I do have a geographical snapshot in my mind. I didn't check mileage. It is indeed a haul. Because F9 flies seasonally to SJO I suppose SJO could be
32 flyguy1 : Interesting that this is announced now, as it appears one carrier Tam, is actually dropping its day flight to JFK.
33 yellowtail : First two could work for DL too. What about IAH-BSB Times change, and this time DL has much more feed at LAX than before. And don't forget DL has sal
34 Post contains images point2point : Here's the Boston pax numbers to Brazil stated in the report Sao Paulo……. 102 Belo Horizonte ……. 64 Rio de Janeiro……. 47 Grande Vitoria
35 klkla : I know. I was only joking. Although the fact that it was only 3 times a week and never promoted also contributed to the failure. Well, we can always
36 LipeGIG : I don't think any airline will apply for these frequencies. All airlines are expecting lower LF for the upcoming months and economic situation do not
37 jfk777 : Why would AA discontinue CLT to Sao Paulo ? AA has never discontinued a flight to GRU, its been a license to print money for them, why else would the
38 BOStonsox : I think the only way we'll see BOS-GRU anytime soon would be if an Asian carrier like JL had fifth-freedom rights and flew something like NRT-BOS-GRU.
39 incitatus : CLT-GIG is at much greater risk than CLT-GRU. The Sao Paulo - USA market is overall about double the size of Rio - USA and it is much richer. AA can
40 rwy04lga : I'll betcha we won't!
41 as739x : Not a chance. From MIA the 739ER would get its feet wet in the south Amazon. AS has no business doing Brazil, they have codeshares
42 Cactus739 : That's cute... can't make COS-PHX or anywhere else in the US work...so let's drop an Airbus on COS-Brazil... lol
43 STT757 : EWR-BSB is actually a shorter route than IAH-BSB, however it's still outside the 757s range.
44 GentFromAlaska : F9 seems to do well in Central America seasonally; I hear SJO is really doing well. Thus being the case why not try South America. Do I see in happen
45 LAXdude1023 : Not to mention EWR-BSB is much larger a local than IAH-BSB. If UA expands Brazil from IAH, it can only be to CNF. No other Brazil route could possibl
46 PIEAvantiP180 : Ok ok ill throw my self into the lions den and ask this, how about DL starting MIA-GRU, GIG. Every believer of DL will make MIA into a hub only if the
47 Rafabozzolla : It's hard to believe loads are weak with the current fares... Anyway, just my two cents. Pipeline dreams for me would be any flight to LAX or SFO. I a
48 realsim : Now that AA is solving their cost problems, I think they should apply for ORD-GRU to compete against UA at ORD and DL at DTW for the connections headi
49 yellowtail : Never realized Belo was a bigger market than Rio. If that is the case, then they should do more C. America. SJO does fine although the LIR flights ha
50 jetlanta : DL doing MIA-GRU/GIG in cooperation with Gol is not out of the question. Who really knows, but I think people should keep in mind that whatever DL doe
51 LAXintl : Actually during the last build up, Delta was just as big at LAX and served a larger set of destinations then currently. Have you looked at AA's sched
52 PIEAvantiP180 : While that is true, DL's LAX-GRU flight was flown at or near the lowest operating levels that DL operated out of LAX, about 2 years after the last bu
53 Post contains images delta2ual :
54 FSDan : PHL-GRU would not even be close to being easy. DTW has auto-industry connections to provide at least some premium traffic, and also flights from NRT,
55 LAXSTEW : could time it this go-around to connect with HND? maybe?? *hopes*
56 Post contains images airbazar : The biggest obstacle to US-Brazil will be the lack of adequate equipment. Other than the 757, any other plane is just too big for service to/from most
57 PanAm747LHR : All this talk about AA and UA but little mention of DL. I smell JFK-GIG coming onboard, and maybe another crack at some secondary cities out of ATL no
58 2travel2know2 : An A320 may be able to fly FLL-BEL. But BEL-U.S. market may be quite tiny. Does VCP counts as São Paulo or as "any point in Brazil"? The only Brazil
59 RodRB : VCP counts as São Paulo. The problem with connections to Asia is still the VISA. AA, DL and UA cannot compete in equal conditions with EK, QR, EY, B
60 2travel2know2 : This is bad for Campinas O/D traffic. If given the chance, pretty sure AA would jump to the possibility to fly MIA-VCP if no Sao Paulo (read GRU) slo
61 Deltal1011man : Agreed. Most likely ATL#2 outside chance of MIA-GRU. Delta could start this tomorrow. IMO the only chance of a GIG flight is if they do what Jet said
62 jfk777 : With all the feed US has at PHL feeding a flight to Sao Paulo would require no additional feed then the existing feed for the European flights. IF th
63 embrider : Thanks for the information. Very nice. Do you know what is the total daily offer of seats for GRU and GIG from US?
64 MCOflyer : What about the cargo slots?? Will FX or UPS apply for increased services or some smaller airline attempt to start service?? KH
65 airbazar : Corgo flights to Brazil is a tricky business because Brazil imposes huge import taxes on goods. In a way what's driving this boom in passengers traff
66 MCOflyer : So in other words, it is cheaper to import stuff than to export it??? Regarding passenger flights, I'd bet that US/AA will get a couple and DL will g
67 jayunited : AA all ready has multiple non stops to GRU from JFK, MIA, and DFW they also have some slack in their wide body fleet so if they had wanted to compete
68 commavia : Not necessarily. For some time, there have not been many, if any, free peak-time GRU arrival/departure slots available that would be viable for ORD-G
69 DFWEagle : I think that an application for ORD-GRU service would be the best chance that AA has to get more GRU-eligible frequencies in this round. They could po
70 FSDan : When it comes to serving South America, PHL is not well positioned geographically. All logical connections would have to come from Canada and the Nor
71 LAXintl : Does not change the fact that Brazil is far the largest Latin America cargo market. It accounts for about 1/3 of the air cargo to the entire region a
72 Post contains images point2point : You're welcome and thanks for the comp. It's not to difficult or time consuming with pax numbers for me, because from various sites I can load raw da
73 MAH4546 : Great list, but some corrections: AA is double daily JFKGRU, 12w DFWGRU and up to daily DFWGIG (this sched is very seasonal). TAM is double daily MCO
74 panamair : DTW-GRU on Delta is a daily 763, recently upgraded to the new flat-bed J version.
75 AA767400 : Since AA is the capacity leader in the market, and pretty much has their hubs covered. Where would they expand further? ORD-GRU, or LAX-GRU?
76 LipeGIG : AA is operating DFWGRU 10x weekly only. One 772 is doing all the additional flights and will be back to daily this month. Currently and up to the end
77 adamh8297 : Immigration has something to do with it since there are many Brazilians here "illlegally." They cannot just hop on a plane to CNF and visit the famil
78 Post contains links LAXintl : Well the first ones are in. AA seeks GRU service from both LAX and ORD. http://finance.yahoo.com/news/americ...s-additional-brazil-190000175.html =
79 jayunited : To any ones knowledge has Delta or United applied for more slots? Also If Delta and United have not applied for more slots how many slots do Delta and
80 LAXintl : Apps are not formally due till end of business tomorrow. Actually the AA one is not been filed either as of now. They only posted the press release. I
81 LAXdude1023 : I dont hold much hope for success on LAX-GRU even with a two class 777. I think ORD-GRU is going to have a better shot despite the competition with U
82 RodRB : That's great. AA will fly to GRU from all international hubs, am I right? I think this application deserves a new thread
83 yellowtail : I would expect DL to apply somehow....ditto for UA. Now what if one of these carriers made a surprise application for MIA-GRU. DL has a sales team in
84 CXA330300 : I could see AA going for CWB and maybe POA with this...or even a run at LAX-GRU? It's pretty much BEL and MAO in range of the 320s, and that said, tha
85 mah4546 : AA is applying for LAXGRU and it has already announced MIA-CWB-POA-MIA to start in November.
86 b777erj145 : It is going to be good to see who gets the slot. But i think it is going to be too much traffic between US and Brazil
87 nomorerjs : It may take AA a year to get better ORD-BJS slots. Also, if AA adjusts schedules and adds a HKG flight (am) and adjusts schedules to other cities for
88 Post contains links mcmax : Looks like AA applied for LAX-GRU and ORD-GRU. http://finance.yahoo.com/news/americ...lines-seeks-ok-more-204859717.html --Max
89 Post contains images Deltal1011man : Delta has 21, 7x ATL-GRU, 7x JFK-GRU, 7x DTW-GRU. I also think DL may have one or two ATL-GIG frequencies that are un-restricted but at least 4x of t
90 jayunited : Are the other airlines really trying to compete against AA at GRU or are they happy to let AA continue to dominate? I ask this question because if yo
91 RodRB : AA currently fly MIA 4x daily, DFW 10x weekly and JFK 2x daily. And how about US new flight CLT-GRU? It will survive after the merger?
92 Deltal1011man : Not at all. US-China has like 28 used frequencies. (to PEK/PVG) I think CAN is at 14x plus DL/UA both sitting on 14. Delta has been trying to grow, L
93 aaway : I think AA is positioning itself well with World Cup (2014) and Olympic Games (2016) approaching. Another key factor will be Brazil's ascension to Vi
94 bobloblaw : LAX-GIG would de a disaster. 6000 miles and low low yield Delta will probably apply for LAX-GRU but if they flew it before abd dropped it they'll get
95 bsbisland : US-Brazil Open skies and end of visas will probably increase a lot the air traffic between the two countries. Will be interesting to see how the US-B
96 C010T3 : Well, only frequencies are being allocated, not slots. That's a whole other story. It's possible that AA will face some problems launching LAX-GRU th
97 Deltal1011man : They won't be trying for LAX-GRU. ATL-GRU maybe more JFK-GRU capacity with a very small outside chance for MIA-GRU. Thats about it. not likely from D
98 C010T3 : No, Delta doesn't currently hold any unused frequencies. Twice daily from MIA Daily from JFK 3x weekly from DFW
99 Deltal1011man : but i believe GIG has unused frequencies available. Thats what I mean. thanks.
100 klkla : I've never understood this argument. Delta could move from 764 to 777 right now and add seats if they want to. Why skip over 777 and 333 to go to 744
101 C010T3 : Oh, yes! There are currently 7 unassigned GIG-eligible frequencies in the unallocated pool.
102 MIflyer12 : The differences between seat count and J:Y mix are pretty small between 764 and 777, the former at 40J 206Y and the 777 at 45J 224Y. There may be a u
103 airbazar : Indeed, but many Irish and Italians are here illegaly too. My point was that there are already 100PDEW flying BOS-GRU so clearly a significant amount
104 commavia : AA's proposed schedules: AA215 LAX 1930 GRU 1255+ 777 AA216 GRU 0005 LAX 0635 777 AA261 ORD 2130 GRU 1155+ 777 AA262 GRU 2210 ORD 0500+ 777
105 LAXdude1023 : Frankly, I hope AA gets ORDGRU, but not LAXGRU. I dont think LAXGRU will be successful and it would waste a 777. ORDGRU has a better shot at success.
106 2travel2know2 : Yes ORD is an AA hub, but Do Chicago and São Paulo need another U.S. airline flying between them? Shouldn't AA be using that precious São Paulo slo
107 SCL767 : VCP is not a LATAM hub. Should UA restart MIA-GRU, LATAM would most likely respond by increasing frequency on the GRU-MIA route to 3x daily. I'm sure
108 2travel2know2 : And there are yet airports in Brazil which aren't LA/JJ hubs and AA still flies to those. The AA MIA-VCP suggestion isn't because LA/JJ but because h
109 jfk777 : If any airline should be flying ORD to GRU its AA, why does UA need to fly it ? UA is not the force to Brazil AA is, its just another US airline flyi
110 2travel2know2 : ORD isn't MIA or JFK.. For Brazil-U.S. traffic it's mostly a hub, ORD doesn't have the major O/D MIA or JFK have. And location-wise AA DFW wins over
111 LAXintl : A little clarification on the AA proposal. As far as the DOT is concerned for this 2013 allocation proceeding they are seeking only a single flight -
112 C010T3 : VCP is largely overshadowed by GRU. The airport is still not viable for international service. TP flies to it, but they really shouldn't. The only re
113 AA767400 : We get it. You think it will fail. I'm more optimistic - With a 2-class 777, AA/JL/CX LAX connections, and JJ's excellent connections at the GRU end,
114 LAXintl : btw - when is the first 777 2-cabin retrofits supposed to begin? In the DOT application - AA repeatedly states is plans to offer 247 seat 3-class serv
115 AA767400 : If memory serves me, I believe this fall they were slated for conversion. AA stated a 3-class since that's what they only have currently. Legally the
116 IrishAyes : It would be a waste of TWO 777s, not just one. This will go down like the DL MIA-LHR flight. If you look at the timings, the connections to other AA'
117 LAXintl : Nothing stops them from making comment such as "soon to be converted 2-class, xxx seat Boeing 777" You are right, timings for Asia connections are pr
118 crAAzy : 772 conversions are not expected to begin until sometime in 2014 now. Don't forget MH (maybe) and QF - still not great though. However, an expanded A
119 Post contains links C010T3 : I really think that you should read the notice inviting applications once again. It's clearly about both years, 2013 and 2014. AA's application for O
120 IrishAyes : Good question. DFWGRU has a record of strong performance, and indeed, relies on feed from the West Coast and Midwest. How will DFW, then, be impacted
121 LAXdude1023 : Probably some for sure. Outside of DFW itself, LAX is the largest contributor to the DFW-GRU flight. In the end though, if it comes down to choosing
122 psa1011 : I think NH & JL could help solve this problem by swapping Haneda slots. NH would move their HND-LAX to SFO, and JL would move theirs to LAX. This
123 jayunited : UA needs to fly ORD-GRU do to connecting passenger demand. UA has a lot of passengers that connect off UA's and ANA's NRT flights and we also get pas
124 LAXintl : US is about useless - PHX is a market already served by AA. Yes AS can bring people down, however I dont think SEA/PDX/ANC are much of markets to Bra
125 C010T3 : They will not try again, because both years will be decided at once. That's why ORD-GRU is not informational in the application. They're giving prefe
126 psa1011 : I'm unclear - the NH LAX-HND flight departs @ 12AM, while the LAX-NRT flight departs @ 1130AM. JL also flies daylight to TYO. If JL started HND-LAX,
127 incitatus : I would look at it through multiple hubs. LAX will be a good connecting point for selected destinations in a single direction. Once it is combined wi
128 IrishAyes : Sometimes, when I arrive at ORD late at night, I like to watch the GRU flight board from the C concourse and, while not always the best indicator (I
129 LAXdude1023 : The ORD-GRU flight on UA has the single lowest loads of any GRU flight originating from the US. However, Ive been told that UA has some good contract
130 C010T3 : At LAX, they don't have UA as a competitor, not to mention that it seems that ORD would affect DFW's performance more. AA is trying to gain market sh
131 af086 : Apparently DL and UA will not apply to fly NYC-GIG this time and seems that AA won't increase frequencies on the DFW-GIG route on a year round basis.
132 mah4546 : That's not a surprise. There are unused GIG frequencies as is. They could fly these routes tomorrow, but have no interest.
133 IrishAyes : I never fully understood what happened with DFWGIG this winter. Was it bumped up to daily, 4x weekly, or none of the above, and for how long?
134 yellowtail : QF? why would anyone go SYD-LAX-GRU when they could go SYD-SCL-GRU
135 C010T3 : AFAIK, it was made daily from December 12th until the end of February. It's back to 3x weekly now.
136 jayunited : My intentions was not to suggest that UA's ORD-GRU flight goes out full every night every one knows that not the truth. the point I was making was to
137 LAXintl : Did AA not also try a ORD-EZE briefly a few years back? I think it did not even last a year. You are also forgetting the other side of the equation. T
138 Post contains images crAAzy : Likely keep it to once daily instead of creeping up to 10x weekly at times (or more). Yes, US is useless but their frequent flyer base and contracts
139 Rafabozzolla : Economics aside, I'd LOVE for this to become a reality as California (LAX, SFO and Palm Springs) are my destinations of choice in the USA. If, as sta
140 SCL767 : "Lima of all places"? Perú's economy is experiencing robust growth; unlike Brazil. The majority of pax traveling on LA's 13 weekly non-stop flights
141 LAXintl : Remember plane goes to Korea, so they sell accordingly. But overall loads are not that terrific(see below) Also KE dropped its planned idea to increa
142 mah4546 : Applications are technically do tomorrow, but given its a Saturday, should have all been in today. Is AA going to be uncontested? That is shocking.
143 IrishAyes : Both AA and UA have tried this and it has failed miserably. GRU is a different market, although I wouldn't say the route will be a slam dunk from the
144 SCL767 : While the Brazilian economy is currently growing slowly compared to the past few years, the growth rate is projected to increase during 2014 onwards.
145 Byrdluvs747 : Based on those LAX numbers, could AA double the LAX-GRU frequency as the route matures or would it really begin to hurt the DFW/MIA-GRU flights?
146 Rafabozzolla : I did't mean that as an offense, sorry if it came out like that. I'm simply saying that São Paulo is a much larger city and metro area and, GDP grow
147 SCL767 : No offense taken. However international traffic at LIM continues to grow. LIM has daily non-stop flights to AMS, ATL, *DFW, IAH, JFK, LAX, MAD, MEX,
148 Post contains images commavia : I, too, will be quite surprised if that turns out to be the case. AA's prime U.S. competitors have been clamoring for more access to GRU for years -
149 RodRB : GRU new terminal 3 will be opened in May, 2014. The new terminal will be able to handle 12 million passengers and will have 22 more gates.
150 commavia : But what about LAX, which AA is proposing to commence this November? Are gates the only challenge with capacity constraint at GRU? What about departu
151 jfk777 : This is about AA having a full schedule in Miami, JFK & DFW. With an additional slot they need to fly from Chicago to Sao Paulo. Like LHR and NRT
152 incitatus : I doubt someone at DL lost their calendar. More than likely the next step for DL in Brazil is the second ATL-GRU. DTW-GRU struggles to fill, and ATL-
153 bos2laf : And B6's A320s can barely make BOS-SFO in the winter. I doubt they can add another 130 miles plus all those 70-lb bags that everyone will be checking
154 jetlanta : Absolutely not. This DTW-GRU is very strong. The business cabin is full of auto industry folks. It works for exactly the same reason that DTW-PVG and
155 MaverickM11 : Nope, LAXGRU is just filler. Price them out on orbitz or kayak and you'll see DFW fares are sky high compared to LAX, and DFW is much shorter. The As
156 LAXintl : You realize those number are rather thin right? A single flight might struggle let alone double daily. The O&D is only 242/day. With a nonstop yo
157 Post contains links adamh8297 : BOS-GRU is 1200 miles shorter http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=%0D%0Ab...ru%0D%0Alax-gru%0D%0A&MS=wls&DU=mi
158 incitatus : I believe what you say about it. But very strong is not the same as profitable.
159 MaverickM11 : Whoops, I wasn't very clear but I meant that BOS isn't a cornerstone and LAX is much longer DL has tried a lot of really silly stuff in Brazil before
160 AeroWesty : But wouldn't LAX-GRU pull some of the traffic from SFO-GRU and LAS-GRU, where AA has direct own-metal connections? SFO-GRU + LAS-GRU > LAX-GRU alo
161 mah4546 : For whatever reason AA used unadjusted O&D, which underestimates market size. In FY2012, MIASAO was just a hair under 500,000 annual local passeng
162 HALFA : I for one am very happy to hear that AA is proposing LAX- GRU service! People seem to forget that this new flight will not only draw the SFO and LAS c
163 LAXdude1023 : Well then, lets clear the air. I listed on the ones over 30 PDEW: Largest O&D markets to GRU: MIA: 456,422 or 625 PDEW NYC: 425,801 or 584 PDEW M
164 SJOtoLIR : AA MIA-CWB-POA-MIA makes a resemblance with the former AA MIA-REC-SSA-MIA. . Frontier only flies to both SJO and LIR, in terms of their Central Ameri
165 Rafabozzolla : Put convenient connections to LAS and SFO into the mix (not to mention other points less traveled in the west and Hawaii), and the daily pax numbers
166 LAXintl : AA might have failed, but as I recall UA did ORD-EZE for a good part of a decade (some years seasonal). One would assume it must have been doing well
167 AeroWesty : True, but if I was flying SFO-GRU and had a choice between flying a short hop to LAX to pickup a nonstop on the same airline, vs. via a midcon or eas
168 nomorerjs : I think AA has a shot on GRU-ORD, but needs to adjust times to connect with Asia (need new Beijing slots, adjust PVG slightly, add KHG (to compliment
169 BigGSFO : Indeed so...but then AA has a large enough footprint in Brasil to probably generate a decent enough amount of Brasil originating traffic.
170 jetlanta : In this case, it is.
171 RodRB : DOT has released the traffic numbers between US and Brazil for August: Korean Air 772 GRU-LAX - 2036 pax - 41.041 Lbs - 58.6% LAX-GRU - 2229 pax - 145
172 LipeGIG : Interesting applications but make me think that some market adjustments will be required. LAX will see hard competition from DL and UA in terms of pri
173 bobloblaw : Looks like we're getting close to there being far more frequencies than demand. Mine as well have open skies.
174 mah4546 : MIA-CWB-POA-MIA launches 19 December 2013. Not sure why AA hasn't applied yet, but that's the start date announced last week.
175 Post contains images LAXintl : Month after month, rather anemic loads. I can see why KE dropped their plans to increase 6x weekly. If anyone can make LAX-GRU work, I say it would b
176 2travel2know2 : AA has the customer base in Brazil. UA may have the best connections for LAX-GRU-LAX @ LAX. VCP should be considered "rest of Brazil" and lets see ho
177 AAEXP : Very little discussion on CNF. Is AA going to be the only US player in that market?
178 tonytifao : Surprised not to see DL there. Back in the days both CO and UA served CNF.
179 Rafabozzolla : Agree with you guys. In the original opening of CNF frequencies, DL apply for CNF. Let's see if they do again this time.
180 2travel2know2 : Looks like a possible UA EWR-CNF seems to have a better chance of success than DL ATL-CNF. UA should also look at EWR-SSA, Thrice weekly EWR-SSA-CNF r
181 yellowtail : So I guess the deadline has come and gone? And only AA applied?
182 LAXintl : Either the websites are slow to be updated, or AA indeed is the only one that wishes new service at this time.
183 mah4546 : The only thing of relevance here are the 28 unused GRU frequency (14/2013, 14/12014). There are already unused frequencies for cities airports outsid
184 Post contains links C010T3 : Delta has just applied to double their presence at GRU by applying for daily ATL and daily JFK service for 2013 and daily DTW for 2014. Now, we have U
185 IrishAyes : I thought DL flew DTWGRU daily?!
186 MIflyer12 : It does.
187 mah4546 : But Delta needs to give up seven GRU frequencies in 2015. So it's looking to essentially keep them. Of course, the US-AA merger throws things into a
188 LipeGIG : Now it is clear they are trying to protect and secure frequencies. There's no market at all for these flights. What no one says: Sao Paulo-USA is 2.5x
189 Post contains links C010T3 : It gets even more complicated than that. When the DOT allowed United to lease their grandfather frequencies to US Airways, they revoked their grandfa
190 mah4546 : Here's the interesting thing: DL is applying for DTWGRU frequencies because it has to send thoes frequencies to US in 2015. US is applying for CLTGRU
191 sonomaflyer : These routes (especially from the West Coast) might be profitable with the 788. AA might start the LAX service with a 772 (two class) and switch it to
192 crAAzy : AA has already stated it will start LAX-GRU in 2013 with an F configured 772. AA won't start reconfiguring any of it's 772s until 2014 and AA's first
193 C010T3 : I really think the DOT should summon UA to the table here. When they are planning to use their frequencies is crucial. In a normal proceeding US woul
194 LAXintl : So here is a summary of Delta and US Airways request 2013 allocation Delta: 7 x ATL-GRU - B763 (1st priority) 7 x JFK-GRU - no equipment mentioned (2n
195 Rafabozzolla : If US gets slots from the swap with Delta, why do they need to apply for the 7 leased from United? I don't get it.
196 C010T3 : I guess because they cost money.
197 Post contains links LAXintl : US Airways put a press release out about its proposal. US Airways Applies For Service Between Its Charlotte And Philadelphia Hubs And Sao Paulo, Brazi
198 2travel2know2 : Hope US knows what its doing. Flying to GRU from both CLT and PHL hubs may not work well for yields. And does US have room @ GRU to keep its aircraft
199 sonomaflyer : Given 2/3 of the U.S. population is in the east, it makes sense for a first time entrant to start there rather than out west. None of the airlines ha
200 C010T3 : Not to mention that people forget that Brazil is so far east that flying through the US East Coast is not as circuitous as they think. Depending on t
201 tonytifao : Anyone has the schedule for MIA-CWB-POA-MIA?
202 crAAzy : Given past priorities have been give to new routes and new carriers I don't see how DL/ATL-GRU is going to trump AA/LAX-GRU and US/CLT-GRU. Some logi
203 LAXdude1023 : CLT-GRU is going to get priority. After that, LAX-GRU probably will get second dibs. Though a premium heavy 777 is a bad aircraft for it.
204 LAXintl : I think you guys are absolutely right - DOT will look to award new markets (AA/US) before it seeks allow service to be doubled up on existing routes (
205 LAXdude1023 : I can see that working too. The only thing I will bet on (for sure) is US being awarded CLT-GRU. After that, it could go either way.
206 LAXdude1023 : PHX-GRU would be the worst thing any carrier could do. No local market and what exists is trash yields. The connections its serves also have trash yi
207 OA412 : DL has to transfer Brazil slots to US in 2015 due to the LGA/DCA slot swap. Those slots are currently used to operate DTW-GRU, so DL is essentially a
208 2travel2know2 : LAS-GRU would be another story.. Last time I checked, under Brazil - South Africa bilateral SA has rights for Brazil - LAX. Not sure of the like-hood
209 Nostromopilot : Is there literally anywhere else left in Brazil destination-wise that AA could viably make work? I'm thinking maybe Fortaleza? Cordoba, Argentina is s
210 Post contains links cokepopper : It looks like Delta is asking for Both JFK/ATL to GRU http://news.delta.com/index.php?s=43&item=1918
211 jayunited : I have a quick questions concerning UA unused frequencies that were leased to US. How many frequencies did UA lease to US? because I thought (and I co
212 LAXintl : 7 unrestricted frequencies under the 2009 agreement that runs will 2015. Correct. The 7 unrestricted frequencies will now be utilized to launch GRU s
213 crAAzy : True but that's the risk DL took when they agreed to the deal. Just because they're giving them away to US as part of the deal doesn't guarantee DL i
214 ocracoke : Using that argument, AA doesn't need any new slots because it can just get whatever it wants from it's soon-to-be oneworld partner, TAM. DL has tried
215 BigGSFO : Perhaps, but they cannot rule that AA/US are one carrier at this time since it isn't approved. Will the DOT require the new AA to surrender some GRU
216 2travel2know2 : I thought the frequency slots (allocation) weren't limited to certain aircraft type. Could DL ATL-GRU support year-around daily B747?
217 C010T3 : They aren't. Brazilian authorities wouldn't be able to refuse such a request. Only the airport operator could refuse the aircraft type. GRU terminals
218 jfk777 : Doubtful that is going to happen. The DOT will spread the wealth around a bit more then giving AA 5 times more then DL. Delta should buy back the slo
219 kgaiflyer : But most New England lusophones (Portuguese-speakers) are not from Brazil -- but rather from the Azores, the Cape Verde Islands, and Portugal. Not su
220 2travel2know2 : I understand GRU severe gate limitations but I've noticed (last time I was in GRU was a couple of years ago) that it has a (remote) pier where passen
221 C010T3 : There is a large Brazilian expat community in Massachusetts.
222 FreshSide3 : I think it could, as a sesonal and/or non-daily flight....but not a year-round daily flight. There are, but there are more from Portugal itself, as o
223 DFWEagle : Delta’s argument about being disadvantaged in the number of GRU frequencies they hold is a little dubious given that they chose to give away 25% of
224 DFWEagle : As for US Airways, it seems to me that they are being deliberately misleading. They have CLT-GRU frequencies leased from UA until mid-2015, yet they c
225 LAXdude1023 : Would the DOT award allow US Airways to have a better slot time at GRU? If so, I can see that being a motivating factor.
226 C010T3 : IMHO, that's DL's problem. Delta agreed to transfer those frequencies. It was part of the package! Now, they come and want to erase the fact that the
227 ocracoke : This reminds me very much of the first round of China selections a few years ago. Back then, 99% of the people on here and all the other airlines wer
228 bobnwa :
229 bobnwa :
230 MIflyer12 : Delta is using 764s on JFK/ATL-GRU, with 246 seats. DTW-GRU is still a 763. AA seat count on a 772 is 247 (until they drop F and go 3x4x3 in Y). Whet
231 adamh8297 : SFO and LAX are better served via MIA/DFW than BOS[Edited 2013-03-06 15:36:45]
232 Post contains images BigGSFO : SFO and LAX are better served via LAX
233 texan : I wouldn't be surprised to see AA in FOR or BEL one day. AA flew to CUZ back in the 1990s at some point. Don't know that they have much to gain by re
234 commavia : As the Brazilian economy, and the U.S.-Brazil market, continue to develop, I would not be surprised to see AA flying from MIA to BEL, FOR or NAT at s
235 aacun : If you look at the route map put out by AA and US the day they announced the merger, there are certain routes and cities missing, but there is also a
236 Deltal1011man : With this DOT i fully expect Delta to get at least ATL-GRU number two. Pretty much expect Both ATL/JFK awards. They have been trying to get the 744 o
237 BigGSFO : Any idea when the DOT will rule?
238 C010T3 : Delta has just filed a motion to compel additional information regarding the US Airways' frequency lease from United. It seems that they are suspiciou
239 LAXintl : Not much rush, considering the frequencies are not available till late October, but the DOT would like to give airlines atleast 90-120 days to market
240 Deltal1011man : I agree. UA should only have to speak up when they are about to lose the rights....or let them go. I do think the US/UA/AA lease situation should be
241 LAXintl : Responses are in today from both UA and US regarding Delta's pleadings. In summary: United Basically wants to know why its getting dragged in this pro
242 LAXintl : And Delta is back with its comments. They continue to state that in order to have a fair and transparent route case, parties need access to all the re
243 LAXintl : US Airways has countered the last Delta response with a suggestion the DOT to deny the Delta motion, and move ahead with conducting the frequency allo
244 LAXintl : Awful quiet. DOT has not even responded to Delta's push for US and UA to reveal details of their lease and future Brazil plans.
245 C010T3 : The DOT has finally instituted a frequency proceeding. Delta's motion to compel has also been denied.
246 LAXintl : Yes DOT has issued order instituting a proceeding, while telling Delta the department does not see a need to compel the information proposed based on
247 yellowtail : What are the odds (if even possible) DL would ask to move one of the frequencies to MIA-GRU? Crazy I know, but DL has done crazier things. Look at th
248 B377 : The secret here is that DL brings nothing new to the table. They are asking for all the frequencies available in 2013, but only from routes that alre
249 yellowtail : Its not new...DL had tried it and failed and Korean (i think still) operates it. The DOT might allow DL on a hypothetical MIA-GRU if it increases com
250 HeeseokKoo : So when will we know DOT's (final or intermediate) choices?
251 jayunited : AA has applied for LAX and ORD to GRU and US has applied for CTL and PHL to GRU, and although they are still two separate airlines they are expecting
252 BigGSFO : I would assume the DOT can't rule under the assumption that AA and US are one airline, since they aren't at this time. With that said they could stip
253 miaami : That is possible. But if I remember correctly DL was awarded 2 US- HND slots back when HND opened up and they had a very large operation in Tokyo alr
254 nickofatlanta : A bit different because while DL had and has a large operation in Tokyo, it lacks a JV partner on the Tokyo end unlike AA and UA. In this situation,
255 toobz : Well DL has a hub there. They offer connections. Serves a purpose. AA?
256 jfk777 : These were similar arguments for teh DL MIA to LHR flight. we know how that turned out.
257 jayunited : Delta does not make many mistakes now days in fact they are probably one of the best managed well ran airlines in the U.S. However did they make a mis
258 Polot : The only thing DL can hope for is that they can find a loophole with the AA/US merger. The DOT is not going to help DL get that slot back, its not th
259 nickofatlanta : AA has a larger hub than DL through joint venture partner JL.
260 jfk777 : The LAX to GRU route was last flown nonstop by United about 7 years ago, the argument being that Asian passengers can connect over LAX. GRU to Asia h
261 Polot : DL briefly flew LAX-GRU 3x weekly about 3 or 4 years ago. It didn't last long.
262 Byrdluvs747 : Its not the DOT's responsibility to help DL. DL traded away slots, now they are crying that others are going to use them effectively.
263 Post contains links LipeGIG : As this thread become too long, we are opening a new one for the discussions regarding the DOT proceeding. Link US DOT Brazil Proceeding 2013/2014 (by
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