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TK To Go 2xDaily BOM And DEL + More  
User currently offlineTK787 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4435 posts, RR: 12
Posted (1 year 7 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 11511 times:

http://www.airporthaber.com/havacili...ri/ucak-seferleri-artirilmali.html (Turkish only)

News of TK to go double daily to BOM and DEL in the near future and start other Indian destinations.
Announced by the Turkish Foreign office in New Delhi. Could anyone else confirm this?

76 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineindcwby From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 135 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (1 year 7 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 11489 times:

Will be interesting to see how well TK does with travel to the Indian sub-continent. Especially, when you have major players such as EK and QR being the choice of travelers. EY is also working its way up the ranks.

User currently offlineTK787 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4435 posts, RR: 12
Reply 2, posted (1 year 7 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 11434 times:

TK has been flying daily to both cities (332/333) for some time. It is just about bilaterals to get more slots. TK might have to lease more WB if this goes through until owned frames (2 x 333) start to arrive later this year.

User currently offlineTurkish350XWB From Switzerland, joined Jan 2009, 490 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 7 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 11183 times:

If this materializes i bet it would be a midnight departure from IST (main departure bank for fareast) and a late afternoon arrival back to IST (minor arrival bank from fareast NRT and 2nd BKK flight).

IST-DEL 0:30 - 10:15
DEL-IST 13:40 - 17:35


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25395 posts, RR: 49
Reply 4, posted (1 year 7 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 10994 times:

Turkey for several years has been pushing India to widen the bilateral which currently limits Turkish side to mere 7-weekly frequencies. TK has been able to service both BOM/DEL daily on extra bilateral basis using the India side entitlement as well (by offering AI codeshare).

Last October the Indian side agreed to reopen the bilateral. The Turkish wish list was to be allowed to go double daily at BOM and DEL along with adding daily service to 5 other service points - Hyderabad, Amritsar, Kolkata, Bangalore and Chennai.

Sounds like there might have been some positive movement finally.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineTK787 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4435 posts, RR: 12
Reply 5, posted (1 year 7 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 10960 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 4):

Thanks LAXintl,
That would be a huge increase.


User currently offlineVTORD From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 118 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 7 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 10909 times:

Quoting indcwby (Reply 1):
when you have major players such as EK and QR being the choice of travelers.

Yes it will be.

Currently TK arrives and departs (at BOM atleast) in the 4:00 AM - 5:30AM time period. This is a good time to arrive in order to connect to secondary destinations but not necessarily a great time for these passengers to connect outbound. Unless you have red-eyes arriving in to BOM from cities like HYD, AMD and the like. And the ME biggies already have direct services to some of these cities in India + multiple dailies in to BOM and DEL.



Get your facts first. Then you may distort them as you like.
User currently offlineju068 From Vanuatu, joined Aug 2009, 2640 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (1 year 7 months 6 days ago) and read 10861 times:
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Quoting LAXintl (Reply 4):
Hyderabad, Amritsar, Kolkata, Bangalore and Chennai.

Would these be served with B737-900 or could they fill an A330?


User currently offlinebehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4784 posts, RR: 43
Reply 8, posted (1 year 7 months 6 days ago) and read 10774 times:

English translation below:

Ambassador to Turkey Burak Akçapar New Delhi, India to improve ties between Turkey and increase existing services announced new destinations organize expeditions. Currently, the capital cities of New Delhi and Mumbai daily flights to Istanbul Pointing out that this voyage Akçapar be issued in the coming months, and on top of that two-day voyage start at some of the other cities gave the good news. Indian Turkish Businessmen's Association (ITBA) and the Confederation of Industrialists of India (CII) organized by "Turkey and Commerce" Ambassador participated in the panel on Akçapar, Turkish Airlines and the state on the basis of the fulfillment of the responsibilities that needed doing, and now the Indian offices of initiatives, he said.

Ambassador Akçapar, the service is already running at full capacity by specifying emphasized that this is a great contribution trips to trade. Behind the current trade between India and Turkey ought to be 4.5 billion dollars last year, which was Akçapar Pointing out that the trade affront to the economy of the world's leading two, he added. Indian Turkish Businessmen's Association (ITBA) Vice President Mehmet Ali Sugar and his speech at a CII meeting, the secretary general of the TATA group vice president, Sanjay Singh, Essar group, India's leading conglomerates, such as dcpl representatives attended the meeting. (Today)

Quoting Turkish350XWB (Reply 3):
If this materializes i bet it would be a midnight departure from IST (main departure bank for fareast) and a late afternoon arrival back to IST (minor arrival bank from fareast NRT and 2nd BKK flight).

IST-DEL 0:30 - 10:15
DEL-IST 13:40 - 17:35

Departure time from IST is fine but inbound arrival would likely be at 1700 so a 1255 dep DEL in order to ensure that it connects with the 1820 IST JFK service i.e. TK 11 as well as 1900-2000 EU departure hub wave bank. Note that a lunch time departure from DEL would be definitely preferred by VFR pax headed (as final destination) to JFK and Europe (mainland airport itself) versus taking an inconvenient 0400-0600 departing service of some of the Gulf carriers.

As far as ATQ, MAA, HYD and BLR are concerned for TK, ATQ will perform very badly from a P&L perspective due to very low yields and pure leisure Y class traffic. Yes S/F will be very high on an A332 but not yields. Out of these 4 routes, BLR has the best hope for attracting business class traffic due to TK's membership in Star, its good all round coverage of USA/Europe via a short transit in IST in both directions and its ability to offer many tier 2 and tier 3 cities in EU which no Gulf carrier can.

However if TK goes into HYD with a daily A330, I honestly believe that within a year of that happening, BA will pull the plug on its B767 operated LHR-HYD service !


User currently offlineytz From Canada, joined Jun 2009, 2008 posts, RR: 24
Reply 9, posted (1 year 7 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 10669 times:

Quoting indcwby (Reply 1):
Will be interesting to see how well TK does with travel to the Indian sub-continent. Especially, when you have major players such as EK and QR being the choice of travelers. EY is also working its way up the ranks.

TK is already doing quite well. And unless all your travel is to India, TK offers more than the ME3. Star alliance privileges. Excellent onboard service. One of the most interesting hub cities in the world. And more options with premium economy.


User currently offlineTurkish350XWB From Switzerland, joined Jan 2009, 490 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 7 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 10599 times:

Quoting behramjee (Reply 8):
Departure time from IST is fine but inbound arrival would likely be at 1700 so a 1255 dep DEL in order to ensure that it connects with the 1820 IST JFK service i.e. TK 11 as well as 1900-2000 EU departure hub wave bank.

Thanks for further adjusting, haven't had JFK in mind... But a very good point.

Quoting VTORD (Reply 6):

If those new destinations will be added you can be sure that they will have approx the same schedule as the existing BOM and DEL routes to ensure connectivity to North America.


User currently offlineby738 From Tonga, joined exactly 14 years ago today! , 2319 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (1 year 7 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 10497 times:

Quoting behramjee (Reply 8):
I honestly believe that within a year of that happening, BA will pull the plug on its B767 operated LHR-HYD service

Why ? Aren't they servicing completely different markets ?


User currently offlineCaliAtenza From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1577 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 7 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 10397 times:

finally some good news from TK about other indian destinations  . Price wise, TK seems to be pretty good ex LAX to India.

User currently offlineindcwby From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 135 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (1 year 7 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 10115 times:

Quoting VTORD (Reply 6):
This is a good time to arrive in order to connect to secondary destinations

Indeed it is.

The one thing I keep thinking is the percentage of travelers switching from QR or EK to travel on TK.

Ex: Currently, I know a lot of South Indian travelers that take QR or EK from IAH > DOH/DXB to COK/TRV/CCJ.

Only 1 stopover.

When TK starts service in IAH, those same passengers would have to go IAH > IST > BOM/DEL > COK/TRV/CCJ.

An additional connection that many people would not want to endure, especially when you can get a widebody on EK from DXB to COK (B772), TRV (A332) or CCJ (Both types).


User currently offlineCaliAtenza From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1577 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 7 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 9213 times:

Quoting indcwby (Reply 13):

An additional connection that many people would not want to endure, especially when you can get a widebody on EK from DXB to COK (B772), TRV (A332) or CCJ (Both types).

true, i see your point there. I guess TK will look to leverage their connection with AI for those stations.


User currently offlineNimish From India, joined Feb 2005, 3235 posts, RR: 9
Reply 15, posted (1 year 7 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 8876 times:

Is there any other news coverage or official statement about what's coming?


Latest Trip Report - GoAir BLR-BOM-BLR
User currently offlinestylo777 From Germany, joined Feb 2006, 2976 posts, RR: 12
Reply 16, posted (1 year 7 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 8685 times:

it is true that TK currently and also in the near future can not compete with EK between India and the US-Canada; however, with time and new destinations (IAH to open up, LAX already daily, SFO in the pipeline...) the price might be the decisive factor. as we all know TK is quite good on that level and can also compete with EK. to be honest, most of the people don't really know the difference between 332 and 739. also, they don't have to know if the price and the times are right. widebody, skyinterior and all this is for us enthusiast, not for the one-time-a-year traveler.

User currently offlineCaliAtenza From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1577 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 7 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 8632 times:

The price should be right.

Unfortunately, EK has gotten ridiculously expensive from LAX. This summer, LH and SQ look like good deals to India, which I haven't seen in years. Even MH has come out of the woodwork with some insanely low fares; maybe they are planning one last hurrah to LAX before the full Oneworld partnership kicks in. Ironically, EK used to be great on fares. Reading the TK reports on here, looks like the product is great but the service needs to be worked on.


User currently offlineTurkish350XWB From Switzerland, joined Jan 2009, 490 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (1 year 7 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 8534 times:

Quoting indcwby (Reply 13):
Indeed it is.

The one thing I keep thinking is the percentage of travelers switching from QR or EK to travel on TK.

Ex: Currently, I know a lot of South Indian travelers that take QR or EK from IAH > DOH/DXB to COK/TRV/CCJ.

Only 1 stopover.

When TK starts service in IAH, those same passengers would have to go IAH > IST > BOM/DEL > COK/TRV/CCJ.

An additional connection that many people would not want to endure, especially when you can get a widebody on EK from DXB to COK (B772), TRV (A332) or CCJ (Both types).

This applies to cities where EK has a nonstop to. To secondary european destinations, TK is in a mode advantageous position...


User currently offlinebehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4784 posts, RR: 43
Reply 19, posted (1 year 7 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 8348 times:

Double daily A330s DEL is easily do able and fill able with TK's vast USA and EU network. The market size from DEL to EU/USA is far larger than BOM. Plus remember TK also carries a lot of pax to North Africa from India especially to Libya, Algeria, Tunisia, Morocco etc. Double daily DEL may also result in 1-2 EU carriers suspending their own DEL services or forcing some to reduce which in turn will help TK and in the future EK too when they expand.

BOM too can survive with two A330 flights daily but it would struggle versus DEL unless TK gets ultra aggressive with its pricing strategy. Cargo though for both flights (DEL/BOM) would be FULL with double daily flights regardless !

Now if TK wants to get a bit creative and really operate double daily BOM flights, I would suggest that their BOM flight be extended to KTM-Kathmandu as the KTM-EU market size is big, higher yielding than EU-India + no EU carrier operates to KTM. IST-BOM-KTM is suggested because KTM on its own cannot support a daily A330 service but if operated via India, it can !


User currently offlineTurkish350XWB From Switzerland, joined Jan 2009, 490 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (1 year 7 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 8238 times:

Quoting behramjee (Reply 19):

Now if TK wants to get a bit creative and really operate double daily BOM flights, I would suggest that their BOM flight be extended to KTM-Kathmandu as the KTM-EU market size is big, higher yielding than EU-India + no EU carrier operates to KTM. IST-BOM-KTM is suggested because KTM on its own cannot support a daily A330 service but if operated via India, it can !

In this case, the new route would fall off the airline's schedule grid and connectivity would suffer.


User currently offlinebehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4784 posts, RR: 43
Reply 21, posted (1 year 7 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 7888 times:

Quoting Turkish350XWB (Reply 20):
In this case, the new route would fall off the airline's schedule grid and connectivity would suffer.

Hmm...incorrect :P...see how I would time it below: (subject of course to obtaining slots at BOM airport during that night time which would be difficult)

Dep IST 0135 Arr BOM 1030+1...will connect 2200-2300 arrival inbound hub wave
Dep BOM 1200 Arr KTM 1450
Dep KTM 2155 Arr BOM 0020+1
Dep BOM 0145 Arr IST 0605

In this way KTM-BOM-IST is connected very well to both TK's 0730-0830 EU/North Africa departure hub wave bank + the all important 0725am IST-JFK service where as the current BOM-IST flight is connected very well to the 1200-1300 departure hub wave bank which is already an established service.

TK's current BOM flights are witnessing high S/F so this will help relieve the burden a little bit as well as provide very useful feed to the A333/B77W operated JFK services.


User currently offlineVTORD From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 118 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 7 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 7689 times:

Quoting indcwby (Reply 13):
especially when you can get a widebody on EK from DXB to COK (B772), TRV (A332) or CCJ

Wouldn't TK be better off targeting secondary destinations other than these 3? The COK/TRV/CCJ - DXB/DOH/AUH traffic is extremely strong for the ME3.
So maybe TK goes BLR, HYD and AMD in that order whom they can service passengers from the US west and east coasts?
Plus they are *A so may be they will be able to leverage that to get pax from IAH/ORD too?

Quoting behramjee (Reply 19):
would suggest that their BOM flight be extended to KTM-Kathmandu as the KTM-EU market size is big

Interesting point. When I was working in DXB, I recall I had quite a few Nepalese co-workers who had a lot of friends and relatives in the EU and I mean a lot

Quoting stylo777 (Reply 16):
all this is for us enthusiast, not for the one-time-a-year traveler.

  



Get your facts first. Then you may distort them as you like.
User currently offlinebehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4784 posts, RR: 43
Reply 23, posted (1 year 7 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 7595 times:

KTM-Europe/USA market size in 2012 was as follows:

LHR 95,000
MAN 5,000
CDG 24,000
AMS 9,000
MUC 6,000
FRA 14,000
DME 6,000
FCO 5,000
MXP 10,000
ZRH 6,000
GVA 4,000
BRU 9,000
CPH 8,000
MAD 3,000
BCN 2,000
OSL 2,000
JFK 9,000
IAD 5,000
YYZ 4,000

They can also get traffic via IST to the Levant region (AMM BEY) + North Africa for which market sizes are as follows:

BEY 11,000
AMM 9,000

Once again I stress that Europe-KTM fares are approximately 30-35% higher yielding for Middle East carriers versus Europe-India !


User currently offlineindcwby From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 135 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 7 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 7437 times:

Quoting VTORD (Reply 22):
Wouldn't TK be better off targeting secondary destinations other than these 3? The COK/TRV/CCJ - DXB/DOH/AUH traffic is extremely strong for the ME3.
So maybe TK goes BLR, HYD and AMD in that order whom they can service passengers from the US west and east coasts?

Again, unless they have some serious discounts on their fares for BLR, HYD and AMD, I don't see them putting a dent with EK/QR, who is already established.

For those who've traveled on TK, would someone like to say how they fare product-wise against the ME3?


25 lightsaber : If the bilateral is updated, that will be quick growth for TK. How is the gate situation at IST during the times of interest? Lightsaber
26 CaliAtenza : Last i checked, EK is running at about 1500-1600 roundtrip LAX-BLR for this summer. If TK can beat that, they are a shoo-in for people to switch. No
27 Nimish : I think TK should have no issues with loads/ yields @ BLR, given the large *A feed here. LH might take a bit of a beating though - esp on the insane f
28 hohd : TK's service will mirror the middle east carriers, EK, EY and QR and is intended to compete with them and not BA. BA serves a different market (many
29 DTW2HYD : If TK eats into LH's BLR pie, LH may have to fall back on MAA/HYD. Hope they will be able to sustain 748i with 100 premium seats to BLR.
30 behramjee : incorrect as EY and QR can fill up a daily A320/A321 to HYD easily with O&D traffic to their hub airport + transfer traffic to other GCC points +
31 ElPistolero : It can on India - Canada. TK has more frequencies than EK does to YYZ. And a better product, as well as *A membership, in a *A stronghold.
32 blrsea : I have actually found LH prices to be less than EK or BA/AF for an year or so, from BLR. Last year, I booked through LH for my India visit as it was
33 CaliAtenza : I will second that. A 2 stop connection on LH (through UA as a star alliance partner) from LAX to BLR is quite reasonable for the summer actually. Ev
34 Nimish : I guess LH's fares far in advance might be decent. But my experience while booking travel with 2-3 weeks of planned travel dates - LH is far higher th
35 CaliAtenza : Oh thats true, i would agree with you on that. LH is typically higher short notice. Whenever coming back to the States from India i would look for LH
36 CaliAtenza : Any further updates on this? Has TK gotten permission to launch other Indian cities?
37 LAXintl : The new A321NEO order should come in nicely to serve secondary markets in places like India with its 3200nm range.
38 blrsea : I don't think TK will get as liberal bilaterals as the middle-east carriers got. India doesnt have that big of an economic relationship with Turkey. I
39 kaitak : Yes, but Turkey is a country of 75mi people and - both geopolitically and economically - very important, and with very significant growth potential;
40 JU068 : I am sure the fact that Turkish Airlines belongs to the same alliance as Air India could work in their favour. Their expansion within the Indian mark
41 sankaps : EK's odds of getting good quality (ie corporate) front cabin traffic is not high as their narrow-body product on the IST-Europe routes have a far infe
42 blrsea : Too often Turkey hasn't been very accomodative of India's concerns on issues relating to central Asia, Afghanistan etc. And trade between the two has
43 adamh8297 : Add almost 30000 from other destinations either served or rumored to be served by TK - These are 2011 numbers though. LAX 8700 SFO 6900 BOS 6500 ORD
44 behramjee : A321NEO is only good for IST-ATQ service and nothing else as this aircraft cannot be used on 6.5 hour flights to DEL and BOM due to the regional busi
45 sankaps : Besides the hard-product premium cabin disadvantage on the legs where TK uses / will use narrow-bodies, Turkish also has other soft disadvantages to o
46 Northstar80 : I agree with you about the current TK narrowbody business class being a much inferior product compared to EK's or other large airlines' business clas
47 DTW2HYD : Not always true, Indians in Michigan are not interested in ME carriers. Wayne county airport authority(DTW) started a petition to EK/DL to start non-
48 leftyboarder : Let't not forget that TK can serve DTW with 333/332.
49 Post contains images LAXintl : The A321NEO will indeed be used to places like the Indian subcontinents. Part of the selection process was route analysis, and the A321NEO has a rang
50 sankaps : Sorry, but this proves nothing. Most people are too blase to participaite in such petitions, does not reflect their preferences and certinly one cann
51 Post contains links YTZ : I think it'd be quite easy. Sure CASM will be higher. But they'd only be discounting the leg from India to Istanbul. Not the, IST-North America/Europ
52 sankaps : Indeed they have. Especially before EK and others became major players. And other than the most Westernized professionals, they have often complained
53 LAXintl : For info based on the projected configuration they were looking at the promised range was about 3,200nm, and possibly even longer if supplemental add
54 behramjee : If Airbus made a presentation to TK suggesting that the A321NEO can operate IST-MAA (South India) with no payload restrictions, then someone is talki
55 YTZ : The biggest advantage EK has into South Asia (India in particular) is its network. EK flies to more places in South Asia than any other foreign (espe
56 sankaps : I agree, TK can certainly make inroads on routes not served by the Gulf 3. But right now they are doubling frequencies to DEL and BOM, where I believ
57 YTZ : Meh. There's plenty of demand on BOM and DEL routes. They may not make as much as EK on these routes. But 2 flights a day is hardly onerous to these
58 JOYA380B747 : Isn't it still a trip7 to HYD? Arkefly operated AMS-KTM for sometime, did that stop? Plus the KTM-West market is dominated by Qatar with 4 x daily fr
59 Post contains links LAXintl : Airbus itself publicly quotes 3200nm range on the A321NEO - in a 185 seat configuration. The A321 accommodates 185 passengers in a two-class configura
60 karan69 : YTZ, One of the reasons IXC sees lack of interest from carriers is because it's under a 4 hrs drive from DEL, which has the maximum international flig
61 sankaps : That discussion is in the context of whether TK will be able to attract higher-yield corporate traffic (esp those that do not have a non-stop option)
62 YTZ : Boston and Washington are both less than 4 hours away from New York. Munich and Frankfurt are less than 4 hrs apart by car. Paris to Amsterdam is abo
63 YTZ : And TK has far more non-overlapping routes than EK. Include several major cities in Europe. For example, EK offers no service to the most populated c
64 sankaps : Agree on both counts. I have always maintained that TK has a good shot on non-overlapping routes, as long as they can generate sufficient volumes.
65 ytz : I seriously think you are under-estimating TK and over-estimating TK. I do agree that VFR might prefer transiting in Dubai. But that's low-yield traf
66 sankaps : I have already mentioned that Star Alliance is an advantage for TK relative to EK, but it only addresses a part of the FFP base. EK seems to have don
67 lightsaber : I imagine TK will do well in those markets. And some. I expect the PIPs to come immediately for the A321NEO to stretch the range. Lightsaber
68 Post contains links LAXintl : Indian Ministry of Civil Aviation seems not keen to reopen the Turkey bilateral "On Turkey this official said that no Indian carrier was willing to of
69 hohd : Everyone is getting ahead of themselves in the secondary cities quoted in India. The only cities which have a chance are, BLR, HYD, AMD and MAA. Only
70 blrsea : Yup, I am not surprised. As I had mentioned earlier, there isn't much O&D traffic between Turkey & India and the current bilaterals are suffi
71 TurkishWings : I don't know if you ever flew TK 333s but I can assure you that they are anything but cramped... They are some of the most superior 330s out in the m
72 lightsaber : I assume this means Turkey does not use Indian expatriate labor as the mid-east does? (Note, I'm asking.) The mid-east, in particular Dubai, also hel
73 Post contains images 9w748capt : Well for what it's worth - my fiancee and her family recently flew TK LAX-IST-DEL and were extremely impressed. Keep in mind they've flown EK from LA
74 blrsea : Yes, turkey doesn't use much of expatriate labor. It is mainly the countries in GCC. There is lots of trade too between GCC and India. The bilateral
75 Post contains images CaliAtenza : sounds like a good flight . Now TK needs to hurry up and start BLR and the other destinations.
76 YTZ : Flew them to BOM and back last year. And will be doing so again next month. They are cramped compared to getting a 777, especially TK's own 777s.[Edi
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