News of TK to go double daily to BOM and DEL in the near future and start other Indian destinations.
Announced by the Turkish Foreign office in New Delhi. Could anyone else confirm this?
indcwby From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 108 posts, RR: 0 Reply 1, posted (4 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 10093 times:
Will be interesting to see how well TK does with travel to the Indian sub-continent. Especially, when you have major players such as EK and QR being the choice of travelers. EY is also working its way up the ranks.
TK787 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4114 posts, RR: 13 Reply 2, posted (4 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 10038 times:
TK has been flying daily to both cities (332/333) for some time. It is just about bilaterals to get more slots. TK might have to lease more WB if this goes through until owned frames (2 x 333) start to arrive later this year.
Turkish350XWB From Switzerland, joined Jan 2009, 430 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (4 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 9787 times:
If this materializes i bet it would be a midnight departure from IST (main departure bank for fareast) and a late afternoon arrival back to IST (minor arrival bank from fareast NRT and 2nd BKK flight).
LAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22219 posts, RR: 51 Reply 4, posted (4 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 9598 times:
Turkey for several years has been pushing India to widen the bilateral which currently limits Turkish side to mere 7-weekly frequencies. TK has been able to service both BOM/DEL daily on extra bilateral basis using the India side entitlement as well (by offering AI codeshare).
Last October the Indian side agreed to reopen the bilateral. The Turkish wish list was to be allowed to go double daily at BOM and DEL along with adding daily service to 5 other service points - Hyderabad, Amritsar, Kolkata, Bangalore and Chennai.
Sounds like there might have been some positive movement finally.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
VTORD From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 52 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (4 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 9513 times:
Quoting indcwby (Reply 1): when you have major players such as EK and QR being the choice of travelers.
Yes it will be.
Currently TK arrives and departs (at BOM atleast) in the 4:00 AM - 5:30AM time period. This is a good time to arrive in order to connect to secondary destinations but not necessarily a great time for these passengers to connect outbound. Unless you have red-eyes arriving in to BOM from cities like HYD, AMD and the like. And the ME biggies already have direct services to some of these cities in India + multiple dailies in to BOM and DEL.
Get your facts first. Then you may distort them as you like.
behramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4476 posts, RR: 43 Reply 8, posted (4 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 9378 times:
English translation below:
Ambassador to Turkey Burak Akçapar New Delhi, India to improve ties between Turkey and increase existing services announced new destinations organize expeditions. Currently, the capital cities of New Delhi and Mumbai daily flights to Istanbul Pointing out that this voyage Akçapar be issued in the coming months, and on top of that two-day voyage start at some of the other cities gave the good news. Indian Turkish Businessmen's Association (ITBA) and the Confederation of Industrialists of India (CII) organized by "Turkey and Commerce" Ambassador participated in the panel on Akçapar, Turkish Airlines and the state on the basis of the fulfillment of the responsibilities that needed doing, and now the Indian offices of initiatives, he said.
Ambassador Akçapar, the service is already running at full capacity by specifying emphasized that this is a great contribution trips to trade. Behind the current trade between India and Turkey ought to be 4.5 billion dollars last year, which was Akçapar Pointing out that the trade affront to the economy of the world's leading two, he added. Indian Turkish Businessmen's Association (ITBA) Vice President Mehmet Ali Sugar and his speech at a CII meeting, the secretary general of the TATA group vice president, Sanjay Singh, Essar group, India's leading conglomerates, such as dcpl representatives attended the meeting. (Today)
Quoting Turkish350XWB (Reply 3): If this materializes i bet it would be a midnight departure from IST (main departure bank for fareast) and a late afternoon arrival back to IST (minor arrival bank from fareast NRT and 2nd BKK flight).
IST-DEL 0:30 - 10:15
DEL-IST 13:40 - 17:35
Departure time from IST is fine but inbound arrival would likely be at 1700 so a 1255 dep DEL in order to ensure that it connects with the 1820 IST JFK service i.e. TK 11 as well as 1900-2000 EU departure hub wave bank. Note that a lunch time departure from DEL would be definitely preferred by VFR pax headed (as final destination) to JFK and Europe (mainland airport itself) versus taking an inconvenient 0400-0600 departing service of some of the Gulf carriers.
As far as ATQ, MAA, HYD and BLR are concerned for TK, ATQ will perform very badly from a P&L perspective due to very low yields and pure leisure Y class traffic. Yes S/F will be very high on an A332 but not yields. Out of these 4 routes, BLR has the best hope for attracting business class traffic due to TK's membership in Star, its good all round coverage of USA/Europe via a short transit in IST in both directions and its ability to offer many tier 2 and tier 3 cities in EU which no Gulf carrier can.
However if TK goes into HYD with a daily A330, I honestly believe that within a year of that happening, BA will pull the plug on its B767 operated LHR-HYD service !
ytz From Canada, joined Jun 2009, 1480 posts, RR: 23 Reply 9, posted (4 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 9273 times:
Quoting indcwby (Reply 1): Will be interesting to see how well TK does with travel to the Indian sub-continent. Especially, when you have major players such as EK and QR being the choice of travelers. EY is also working its way up the ranks.
TK is already doing quite well. And unless all your travel is to India, TK offers more than the ME3. Star alliance privileges. Excellent onboard service. One of the most interesting hub cities in the world. And more options with premium economy.
Turkish350XWB From Switzerland, joined Jan 2009, 430 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (4 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 9203 times:
Quoting behramjee (Reply 8): Departure time from IST is fine but inbound arrival would likely be at 1700 so a 1255 dep DEL in order to ensure that it connects with the 1820 IST JFK service i.e. TK 11 as well as 1900-2000 EU departure hub wave bank.
Thanks for further adjusting, haven't had JFK in mind... But a very good point.
If those new destinations will be added you can be sure that they will have approx the same schedule as the existing BOM and DEL routes to ensure connectivity to North America.
indcwby From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 108 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (4 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 8719 times:
Quoting VTORD (Reply 6): This is a good time to arrive in order to connect to secondary destinations
Indeed it is.
The one thing I keep thinking is the percentage of travelers switching from QR or EK to travel on TK.
Ex: Currently, I know a lot of South Indian travelers that take QR or EK from IAH > DOH/DXB to COK/TRV/CCJ.
Only 1 stopover.
When TK starts service in IAH, those same passengers would have to go IAH > IST > BOM/DEL > COK/TRV/CCJ.
An additional connection that many people would not want to endure, especially when you can get a widebody on EK from DXB to COK (B772), TRV (A332) or CCJ (Both types).
CaliAtenza From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1148 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (4 months 2 days ago) and read 7817 times:
Quoting indcwby (Reply 13):
An additional connection that many people would not want to endure, especially when you can get a widebody on EK from DXB to COK (B772), TRV (A332) or CCJ (Both types).
true, i see your point there. I guess TK will look to leverage their connection with AI for those stations.
stylo777 From Turkey, joined Feb 2006, 2874 posts, RR: 12 Reply 16, posted (4 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 7289 times:
it is true that TK currently and also in the near future can not compete with EK between India and the US-Canada; however, with time and new destinations (IAH to open up, LAX already daily, SFO in the pipeline...) the price might be the decisive factor. as we all know TK is quite good on that level and can also compete with EK. to be honest, most of the people don't really know the difference between 332 and 739. also, they don't have to know if the price and the times are right. widebody, skyinterior and all this is for us enthusiast, not for the one-time-a-year traveler.
CaliAtenza From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1148 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (4 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 7236 times:
The price should be right.
Unfortunately, EK has gotten ridiculously expensive from LAX. This summer, LH and SQ look like good deals to India, which I haven't seen in years. Even MH has come out of the woodwork with some insanely low fares; maybe they are planning one last hurrah to LAX before the full Oneworld partnership kicks in. Ironically, EK used to be great on fares. Reading the TK reports on here, looks like the product is great but the service needs to be worked on.
The one thing I keep thinking is the percentage of travelers switching from QR or EK to travel on TK.
Ex: Currently, I know a lot of South Indian travelers that take QR or EK from IAH > DOH/DXB to COK/TRV/CCJ.
Only 1 stopover.
When TK starts service in IAH, those same passengers would have to go IAH > IST > BOM/DEL > COK/TRV/CCJ.
An additional connection that many people would not want to endure, especially when you can get a widebody on EK from DXB to COK (B772), TRV (A332) or CCJ (Both types).
This applies to cities where EK has a nonstop to. To secondary european destinations, TK is in a mode advantageous position...
behramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4476 posts, RR: 43 Reply 19, posted (4 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 6952 times:
Double daily A330s DEL is easily do able and fill able with TK's vast USA and EU network. The market size from DEL to EU/USA is far larger than BOM. Plus remember TK also carries a lot of pax to North Africa from India especially to Libya, Algeria, Tunisia, Morocco etc. Double daily DEL may also result in 1-2 EU carriers suspending their own DEL services or forcing some to reduce which in turn will help TK and in the future EK too when they expand.
BOM too can survive with two A330 flights daily but it would struggle versus DEL unless TK gets ultra aggressive with its pricing strategy. Cargo though for both flights (DEL/BOM) would be FULL with double daily flights regardless !
Now if TK wants to get a bit creative and really operate double daily BOM flights, I would suggest that their BOM flight be extended to KTM-Kathmandu as the KTM-EU market size is big, higher yielding than EU-India + no EU carrier operates to KTM. IST-BOM-KTM is suggested because KTM on its own cannot support a daily A330 service but if operated via India, it can !
Turkish350XWB From Switzerland, joined Jan 2009, 430 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (4 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 6842 times:
Quoting behramjee (Reply 19):
Now if TK wants to get a bit creative and really operate double daily BOM flights, I would suggest that their BOM flight be extended to KTM-Kathmandu as the KTM-EU market size is big, higher yielding than EU-India + no EU carrier operates to KTM. IST-BOM-KTM is suggested because KTM on its own cannot support a daily A330 service but if operated via India, it can !
In this case, the new route would fall off the airline's schedule grid and connectivity would suffer.
behramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4476 posts, RR: 43 Reply 21, posted (4 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 6492 times:
Quoting Turkish350XWB (Reply 20): In this case, the new route would fall off the airline's schedule grid and connectivity would suffer.
Hmm...incorrect :P...see how I would time it below: (subject of course to obtaining slots at BOM airport during that night time which would be difficult)
Dep IST 0135 Arr BOM 1030+1...will connect 2200-2300 arrival inbound hub wave
Dep BOM 1200 Arr KTM 1450
Dep KTM 2155 Arr BOM 0020+1
Dep BOM 0145 Arr IST 0605
In this way KTM-BOM-IST is connected very well to both TK's 0730-0830 EU/North Africa departure hub wave bank + the all important 0725am IST-JFK service where as the current BOM-IST flight is connected very well to the 1200-1300 departure hub wave bank which is already an established service.
TK's current BOM flights are witnessing high S/F so this will help relieve the burden a little bit as well as provide very useful feed to the A333/B77W operated JFK services.
VTORD From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 52 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (4 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 6293 times:
Quoting indcwby (Reply 13): especially when you can get a widebody on EK from DXB to COK (B772), TRV (A332) or CCJ
Wouldn't TK be better off targeting secondary destinations other than these 3? The COK/TRV/CCJ - DXB/DOH/AUH traffic is extremely strong for the ME3.
So maybe TK goes BLR, HYD and AMD in that order whom they can service passengers from the US west and east coasts?
Plus they are *A so may be they will be able to leverage that to get pax from IAH/ORD too?
Quoting behramjee (Reply 19): would suggest that their BOM flight be extended to KTM-Kathmandu as the KTM-EU market size is big
Interesting point. When I was working in DXB, I recall I had quite a few Nepalese co-workers who had a lot of friends and relatives in the EU and I mean a lot
Quoting stylo777 (Reply 16): all this is for us enthusiast, not for the one-time-a-year traveler.
Get your facts first. Then you may distort them as you like.
indcwby From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 108 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (4 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 6041 times:
Quoting VTORD (Reply 22): Wouldn't TK be better off targeting secondary destinations other than these 3? The COK/TRV/CCJ - DXB/DOH/AUH traffic is extremely strong for the ME3.
So maybe TK goes BLR, HYD and AMD in that order whom they can service passengers from the US west and east coasts?
Again, unless they have some serious discounts on their fares for BLR, HYD and AMD, I don't see them putting a dent with EK/QR, who is already established.
For those who've traveled on TK, would someone like to say how they fare product-wise against the ME3?
lightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 10872 posts, RR: 100 Reply 25, posted (4 months 1 day ago) and read 5988 times:
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 4): Last October the Indian side agreed to reopen the bilateral. The Turkish wish list was to be allowed to go double daily at BOM and DEL along with adding daily service to 5 other service points - Hyderabad, Amritsar, Kolkata, Bangalore and Chennai.
Sounds like there might have been some positive movement finally.
If the bilateral is updated, that will be quick growth for TK.
How is the gate situation at IST during the times of interest?
CaliAtenza From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1148 posts, RR: 0 Reply 26, posted (4 months 21 hours ago) and read 5930 times:
Quoting indcwby (Reply 24):
Again, unless they have some serious discounts on their fares for BLR, HYD and AMD, I don't see them putting a dent with EK/QR, who is already established.
For those who've traveled on TK, would someone like to say how they fare product-wise against the ME3?
Last i checked, EK is running at about 1500-1600 roundtrip LAX-BLR for this summer. If TK can beat that, they are a shoo-in for people to switch. No QR at LAX and i dont know how many will take Saudia to India.
Nimish From India, joined Feb 2005, 3085 posts, RR: 9 Reply 27, posted (4 months 19 hours ago) and read 6013 times:
I think TK should have no issues with loads/ yields @ BLR, given the large *A feed here. LH might take a bit of a beating though - esp on the insane fares they manage to charge...
hohd From United States of America, joined May 2008, 269 posts, RR: 0 Reply 28, posted (4 months 16 hours ago) and read 5877 times:
Quoting behramjee (Reply 8): However if TK goes into HYD with a daily A330, I honestly believe that within a year of that happening, BA will pull the plug on its B767 operated LHR-HYD service !
TK's service will mirror the middle east carriers, EK, EY and QR and is intended to compete with them and not BA. BA serves a different market (many cities in USA/Canada) plus a decent O & D to UK from HYD. So BAs service should not be affected much, but the middle east carriers would be affected more, especially, QR and EY.
behramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4476 posts, RR: 43 Reply 30, posted (4 months 11 hours ago) and read 5733 times:
Quoting hohd (Reply 28): TK's service will mirror the middle east carriers, EK, EY and QR and is intended to compete with them and not BA. BA serves a different market (many cities in USA/Canada) plus a decent O & D to UK from HYD. So BAs service should not be affected much, but the middle east carriers would be affected more, especially, QR and EY.
incorrect as EY and QR can fill up a daily A320/A321 to HYD easily with O&D traffic to their hub airport + transfer traffic to other GCC points + Saudi Arabia so TK launching HYD/MAA/BLR will not effect them one bit.
What TK will do to BA is hurt their yields and market share at the same time out of USA/CAN and Northern UK (MAN/BHX/LBA) area bound to HYD. Yes the nonstop pax especially J class will prefer BA's nonstop service any day of the week but we all know that if HYD was going ok, it would be a B772ER operated route and not a B763ER instead !
Quoting DTW2HYD (Reply 29): If TK eats into LH's BLR pie, LH may have to fall back on MAA/HYD. Hope they will be able to sustain 748i with 100 premium seats to BLR.
TK will not hurt LH in BLR as LH's main focus in BLR is corporate J/F class traffic for which they have a stronghold on. What TK will do in BLR is hurt Air France the most in particular more than any other airline as it is heavily dependent on transfer traffic to USA/EU on its BLR flights which are not operated daily year round. BA will not be effected by TK entering BLR that much as they have a monopoly on the BLR-LHR nonstop route which is quite popular with both premium and leisure paying pax + offers convenient one stop service via LHR to USA.
In MAA though, TK's entry will effect both LH and BA in Y class in particular as this market segment is more VFR oriented and price conscious versus BLR!
blrsea From India, joined May 2005, 1228 posts, RR: 3 Reply 32, posted (4 months 6 hours ago) and read 5590 times:
Quoting Nimish (Reply 27): LH might take a bit of a beating though - esp on the insane fares they manage to charge...
I have actually found LH prices to be less than EK or BA/AF for an year or so, from BLR. Last year, I booked through LH for my India visit as it was the cheapest. Even now, I am finding that LH is cheaper than EK/BA/AF from BLR to SEA.
CaliAtenza From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1148 posts, RR: 0 Reply 33, posted (4 months 5 hours ago) and read 5551 times:
Quoting blrsea (Reply 32):
I hjave actually found LH prices to be less than EK or BA/AF for an year or so, from BLR. Last year, I booked through LH for my India visit as it was the cheapest. Even now, I am finding that LH is cheaper than EK/BA/AF from BLR to SEA.
I will second that. A 2 stop connection on LH (through UA as a star alliance partner) from LAX to BLR is quite reasonable for the summer actually. Even if you get the older product to Frankfurt, you can expierence the newest 747-8i to BLR.
Nimish From India, joined Feb 2005, 3085 posts, RR: 9 Reply 34, posted (4 months 1 hour ago) and read 5484 times:
I guess LH's fares far in advance might be decent. But my experience while booking travel with 2-3 weeks of planned travel dates - LH is far higher than the Gulf carriers. Interestingly enough - LH typically again offers the lowest fares on the last day or two before travel.
CaliAtenza From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1148 posts, RR: 0 Reply 35, posted (3 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 5267 times:
Quoting Nimish (Reply 34):
I guess LH's fares far in advance might be decent. But my experience while booking travel with 2-3 weeks of planned travel dates - LH is far higher than the Gulf carriers. Interestingly enough - LH typically again offers the lowest fares on the last day or two before travel.
Oh thats true, i would agree with you on that. LH is typically higher short notice. Whenever coming back to the States from India i would look for LH but they tended to be quite pricey. I was on EK, MH, and Cathay all those years, but this time, i flew TG. I used to book at short notice as well.
CaliAtenza From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1148 posts, RR: 0 Reply 36, posted (3 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 4824 times:
Any further updates on this? Has TK gotten permission to launch other Indian cities?
blrsea From India, joined May 2005, 1228 posts, RR: 3 Reply 38, posted (3 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 3948 times:
I don't think TK will get as liberal bilaterals as the middle-east carriers got. India doesnt have that big of an economic relationship with Turkey. I think TK will probably get half or less of what it is hoping to get.
kaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 11995 posts, RR: 36 Reply 39, posted (3 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 3780 times:
Quoting blrsea (Reply 38): I don't think TK will get as liberal bilaterals as the middle-east carriers got. India doesnt have that big of an economic relationship with Turkey. I think TK will probably get half or less of what it is hoping to get.
Yes, but Turkey is a country of 75mi people and - both geopolitically and economically - very important, and with very significant growth potential; Turkey should be as important a trade (and diplomatic) partner to India as India is to Turkey, so I would expect India to see this as a possibility for India to build its economic relationship with Turkey.
I am sure the fact that Turkish Airlines belongs to the same alliance as Air India could work in their favour. Their expansion within the Indian market does not have to be at the expense of the national carrier (as is the case with the Gulf airlines) but their expansion there could be synchronized with Air India, a win win situation.
sankaps From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1374 posts, RR: 0 Reply 41, posted (3 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 3667 times:
EK's odds of getting good quality (ie corporate) front cabin traffic is not high as their narrow-body product on the IST-Europe routes have a far inferior product to the EKs who fly long-haul wide-bodies on both legs. Therefore unless there is unmet demand or a market not served by its competitors, the only way I see TK succeeding in gaining share from EK etc especially in the front is by offering lower fares.
blrsea From India, joined May 2005, 1228 posts, RR: 3 Reply 42, posted (3 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 3518 times:
Quoting kaitak (Reply 39): Yes, but Turkey is a country of 75mi people and - both geopolitically and economically - very important, and with very significant growth potential; Turkey should be as important a trade (and diplomatic) partner to India as India is to Turkey, so I would expect India to see this as a possibility for India to build its economic relationship with Turkey.
Too often Turkey hasn't been very accomodative of India's concerns on issues relating to central Asia, Afghanistan etc. And trade between the two hasn't been anything great to speak of. So I am not very optimistic about it.
behramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4476 posts, RR: 43 Reply 44, posted (3 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 3233 times:
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 37): The new A321NEO order should come in nicely to serve secondary markets in places like India with its 3200nm range.
A321NEO is only good for IST-ATQ service and nothing else as this aircraft cannot be used on 6.5 hour flights to DEL and BOM due to the regional business class cabin on board which not a single Indian pax will appreciate for such a long flight. ATQ however is a different market segment altogether with next to zero premium pax hence this aircraft type is ideally suited for such a route.
A321NEO is also well suited for Istanbul-Goa but wont have the legs to operate it nonstop without incurring payload issues especially on Goa-IST sector.
For all of South India (HYD, BLR and MAA), TK has to use the A332/A333 only.
sankaps From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1374 posts, RR: 0 Reply 45, posted (3 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2987 times:
Besides the hard-product premium cabin disadvantage on the legs where TK uses / will use narrow-bodies, Turkish also has other soft disadvantages to overcome if it is to steal share from EK etc. Indians feel at home transiting Dubai, Abu Dhabi, etc due to the large number of Indians living and working there, including a large part of the airline frontline staff. On-board crew also have a high number of Indians. On-board IFE is heavily oriented towards Indians in multiple languages. This appeals to both premium and leisure / VFR pax.
So again only way for TK to gain share on overlapping O&D routes is by heavy discounting relative to EK and others to steal share. Will be hard to pull off and make money sustainably. Having said that, I will be happy to be proved wrong.
Northstar80 From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 163 posts, RR: 0 Reply 46, posted (3 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2959 times:
Quoting sankaps (Reply 41): EK's odds of getting good quality (ie corporate) front cabin traffic is not high as their narrow-body product on the IST-Europe routes have a far inferior product to the EKs who fly long-haul wide-bodies on both legs
I agree with you about the current TK narrowbody business class being a much inferior product compared to EK's or other large airlines' business class.
However, in some of my recent flights in TK A321s, the business class seats were proper business seats. The planes were very new too. So, I think the new TK planes will have good business seats.
You have to have your heart in the business and the business in your heart. -Thomas J Watson
DTW2HYD From United States of America, joined Jan 2013, 192 posts, RR: 0 Reply 47, posted (3 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 2808 times:
Quoting sankaps (Reply 45): Indians feel at home transiting Dubai, Abu Dhabi, etc due to the large number of Indians living and working there, including a large part of the airline frontline staff.
Not always true, Indians in Michigan are not interested in ME carriers. Wayne county airport authority(DTW) started a petition to EK/DL to start non-stop between DTW-DXB. DTW estimates 250 passengers daily travel between DTW and India. Even with Indian population close to 75,000 + Ohio + Windsor, that petition didn't even get required 5,000 signatures after 8 months. Got 3,500 votes.
That was a wrong petition anyway. EK needs to fill up at least a 777. 250 passengers will not work for EK. DL with SV in SkyTeam may never be interested in a DTW-DXB non-stop.
TK being an European carrier may have better luck with Indians in Michigan. TK will also attract 1+ Million ME population live in Michigan.
leftyboarder From Turkey, joined Apr 2008, 656 posts, RR: 1 Reply 48, posted (3 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2783 times:
Quoting DTW2HYD (Reply 47): TK being an European carrier may have better luck with Indians in Michigan. TK will also attract 1+ Million ME population live in Michigan.
Let't not forget that TK can serve DTW with 333/332.
LAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22219 posts, RR: 51 Reply 49, posted (3 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2773 times:
Quoting behramjee (Reply 44): due to the regional business class cabin on board which not a single Indian pax will appreciate for such a long flight.
The A321NEO will indeed be used to places like the Indian subcontinents. Part of the selection process was route analysis, and the A321NEO has a range advantage versus the 739MAX especially in analyzed TK configurations.
Also for cabin specifics, I guess you have not seen TK products lately. Both new A321 and 739 fleet have 2x2 business seats with 48-inch pitch.
Quoting behramjee (Reply 44): For all of South India (HYD, BLR and MAA), TK has to use the A332/A333 only.
The A321NEO would be a fantastic plane for such markets which might not yet be ready for a widebody.
Quoting Northstar80 (Reply 46): However, in some of my recent flights in TK A321s, the business class seats were proper business seats. The planes were very new too. So, I think the new TK planes will have good business seats.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
sankaps From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1374 posts, RR: 0 Reply 50, posted (3 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2704 times:
Quoting DTW2HYD (Reply 47): Not always true, Indians in Michigan are not interested in ME carriers. Wayne county airport authority(DTW) started a petition to EK/DL to start non-stop between DTW-DXB. DTW estimates 250 passengers daily travel between DTW and India. Even with Indian population close to 75,000 + Ohio + Windsor, that petition didn't even get required 5,000 signatures after 8 months. Got 3,500 votes.
Sorry, but this proves nothing. Most people are too blase to participaite in such petitions, does not reflect their preferences and certinly one cannot draw the inference "Indians in Michigan are not interested in ME carriers". Indians in Michigan are not any different from Indians in Texas or anywhere else.
Quoting DTW2HYD (Reply 47): TK being an European carrier may have better luck with Indians in Michigan. TK will also attract 1+ Million ME population live in Michigan.
See above. The inference does not hold at all.
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 49): Also for cabin specifics, I guess you have not seen TK products lately. Both new A321 and 739 fleet have 2x2 business seats with 48-inch pitch.
That is good, but still no match to lie-flat seats on the majority of EK, QR, EY's long haul fleets. As a business traveller, I know which one I would choose in terms of seats.
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 49): The A321NEO would be a fantastic plane for such markets which might not yet be ready for a widebody.
Agreed. In markets where EK is not present and where narrow-bodies are the only viable option, TK has a much better chance of success.
YTZ From Canada, joined Jun 2009, 1480 posts, RR: 23 Reply 51, posted (3 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2704 times:
Quoting sankaps (Reply 45): Will be hard to pull off and make money sustainably.
I think it'd be quite easy. Sure CASM will be higher. But they'd only be discounting the leg from India to Istanbul. Not the, IST-North America/Europe leg.
And heck, I'm not even sure costs would be higher, given how much cheaper TK may have gotten these 321NEOs.
Nor am I sure they face a marketing disadvantage. Surely, their A330s to India aren't winning them that many fans now.
Quoting sankaps (Reply 45): Indians feel at home transiting Dubai, Abu Dhabi, etc due to the large number of Indians living and working there, including a large part of the airline frontline staff.
Maybe Indians from India. Diasporic Indians are just as used to transiting in LHR, CDG, BRU, HKG, etc. And they've been doing it for decades. Many are even happier still to go direct, like UA's service from EWR.
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 49): The A321NEO will indeed be used to places like the Indian subcontinents. Part of the selection process was route analysis, and the A321NEO has a range advantage versus the 739MAX especially in analyzed TK configurations.
People keep thinking this means 321NEOs all over India. TK won't be sending 321NEOs to DEL or BOM. More like AMD, JAI, IDR, ATQ, IXC. Maybe even a place like SXR. At 2600nm (max range-payload), with the 321NEOs palletized cargo, TK could run quite a decent passenger and cargo business to India's secondary centres:
But TK will still need widebodies for places like BOM, DEL, BLR, CCU, MAA, TRV.
Most major non-Indian airlines don't cover most of the cities I listed above. Now imagine one-stop service from Europe or North America to those cities. Great for TK. Amazing option for VFR traffic. A huge boost to Indian tourism.
sankaps From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1374 posts, RR: 0 Reply 52, posted (3 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 2679 times:
Quoting YTZ (Reply 51): Quoting sankaps (Reply 45):
Indians feel at home transiting Dubai, Abu Dhabi, etc due to the large number of Indians living and working there, including a large part of the airline frontline staff.
Maybe Indians from India. Diasporic Indians are just as used to transiting in LHR, CDG, BRU, HKG, etc. And they've been doing it for decades. Many are even happier still to go direct, like UA's service from EWR.
Indeed they have. Especially before EK and others became major players. And other than the most Westernized professionals, they have often complained about how they do not like flying Western carriers (food, culture gap etc). The share-grab by EK since then has proven even diasporic Indians are not immune to the advantages of EK (network, product, pricing) relative to the Western legacy airlines.
Just to be clear: For premium pax, direct (non-stop) is almost always preferred. If that is not an option, then then FF ties, product (hard and soft), and pricing become the drivers. TK will have to use a combination of FF ties and pricing to steal share. Product will be its achilles heel.
LAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22219 posts, RR: 51 Reply 53, posted (3 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 2660 times:
Quoting YTZ (Reply 51): At 2600nm (max range-payload)
For info based on the projected configuration they were looking at the promised range was about 3,200nm, and possibly even longer if supplemental additional center tanks are configured (as the 739ER fleet is now).
The NEO will ultimately allow for sectors upwards of 7+ hours.
Besides Indian subcontinent one of the mission profiles was to have a type that could reach West Africa and deep Central Africa with full payloads.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
behramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4476 posts, RR: 43 Reply 54, posted (3 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2581 times:
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 49): The A321NEO would be a fantastic plane for such markets which might not yet be ready for a widebody.
If Airbus made a presentation to TK suggesting that the A321NEO can operate IST-MAA (South India) with no payload restrictions, then someone is talking a lot of nonsense. Note that IST-MAA nonstop is a 7 hour 25 minute flight and MAA-IST is 7 hours 50 minutes and such flying times would be next to impossible for the A321NEO. These flying times are like trans-atlantic flights from LHR !
A321NEO can operate IST-DEL nonstop in both directions but definitely not IST-South India !
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 49):
Also for cabin specifics, I guess you have not seen TK products lately. Both new A321 and 739 fleet have 2x2 business seats with 48-inch pitch.
yes I am aware of these seats on the B739ER with the low density 16J/151Y configuration used on African routes...but how much is the recline?
YTZ From Canada, joined Jun 2009, 1480 posts, RR: 23 Reply 55, posted (3 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2580 times:
Quoting sankaps (Reply 52): The share-grab by EK since then has proven even diasporic Indians are not immune to the advantages of EK (network, product, pricing) relative to the Western legacy airlines.
The biggest advantage EK has into South Asia (India in particular) is its network. EK flies to more places in South Asia than any other foreign (especially North American or European) airline.
TK can pull of the same trick even better by running 321NEOs to several places in Pakistan and North India serving Tier II cities directly, which arguably only QR out of the Gulf 3 might even consider serving.
For example, no EK/EY/QR to IXC. So if you have to go to IXC from LHR or JFK, the Gulf 3 aren't an option and very soon AI and 9W might not be options for North Americans. IXC just gets written off as two-airline, two-stop for quite a few pax (particularly North Americans). TK could make that single airline, one-stop. Ditto for JAI, ATQ and IDR. And there's other candidates even further down the list like UDR, LKO, KNU, etc.
sankaps From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1374 posts, RR: 0 Reply 56, posted (3 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2550 times:
Quoting YTZ (Reply 55): TK can pull of the same trick even better by running 321NEOs to several places in Pakistan and North India serving Tier II cities directly, which arguably only QR out of the Gulf 3 might even consider serving.
I agree, TK can certainly make inroads on routes not served by the Gulf 3. But right now they are doubling frequencies to DEL and BOM, where I believe their chances of EK-like success are much lower.
YTZ From Canada, joined Jun 2009, 1480 posts, RR: 23 Reply 57, posted (3 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2549 times:
Quoting sankaps (Reply 56): I agree, TK can certainly make inroads on routes not served by the Gulf 3. But right now they are doubling frequencies to DEL and BOM, where I believe their chances of EK-like success are much lower.
Meh. There's plenty of demand on BOM and DEL routes. They may not make as much as EK on these routes. But 2 flights a day is hardly onerous to these locations.
That said, I agree, that I'd rather have seen them expand to new cities like BLR, MAA and CCU to start.
But I am going to guess that TK is separating its South Asia strategy into two tiers. Tier 1 cities served by widebodies. Tier 2 cities served by narrowbodies.
TK configuration will most likely be less at around 170, and the added 300nm boost of ACTs is not even being factored yet.
Regarding TK vs EK competition and lack of sleeper product is a bit of a side track. I hope people realize that the TK aircraft will be 90% economy seats. These folks simply want to get from A to B and are buying a seat.
Narrowbody, or widebody its about the same. With a very small premium cabin TK will hardly have problems filing them. They can probably do it simply from their home Turkey market.
As far as network, TK has huge advantages compared to EK. Besides serving the European capital cities of London, Paris, etc, TK can connect many dozen more markets that EK cant touch. Want to get from Berlin, Budapest, Brussels, Stockholm, Helsinki, Sofia, Bologna, Bilbao, Genoa, Luxembourg, etc, someone like EK is of no value unless if you want to double connect.
Lastly about this Tier-1 vs Tier-2 India talk. TK has not stated any aspirations beyond what is the thread title here -
They wish to double up their BOM and DEL services along with adding 5 future service points of HYD, CCU, BLR, MAA and ATQ.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
karan69 From India, joined Oct 2004, 2796 posts, RR: 19 Reply 60, posted (3 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 2350 times:
YTZ,
One of the reasons IXC sees lack of interest from carriers is because it's under a 4 hrs drive from DEL, which has the maximum international flights out of Incia,
sankaps From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1374 posts, RR: 0 Reply 61, posted (3 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 2350 times:
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 59): Regarding TK vs EK competition and lack of sleeper product is a bit of a side track. I hope people realize that the TK aircraft will be 90% economy seats.
That discussion is in the context of whether TK will be able to attract higher-yield corporate traffic (esp those that do not have a non-stop option) with its hard and soft product gap vis-a-viz EK. Even though it is 10% of the seats, that is where the money is made in full service carriers.
Even for economy, on overlapping routes my belief is TK will have to undercut fares charged by EK and others to attract sufficient volumes, due to better product for India markets on EK (IFE content, lots of Indian frontline ground and cabin crew, etc). If given a choice, I believe many more Indian travellers (in India and expats) would pick EK over TK for this reason, unless TK offers a lower fare.
On non-overlapping markets, TK has a good shot if they can get sufficient demand for those thinner O&Ds.
One of the reasons IXC sees lack of interest from carriers is because it's under a 4 hrs drive from DEL, which has the maximum international flights out of Incia,
Karan
Boston and Washington are both less than 4 hours away from New York. Munich and Frankfurt are less than 4 hrs apart by car. Paris to Amsterdam is about 5 hours. And Paris to London is about 5 hours. Toronto and Montreal are about 5 hours apart.
Even more context: Brussels and Paris are about as far apart as IXC and DEL. I doubt anybody would suggest that BRU doesn't need service because CDG is just a few hours drive away.
4 hrs is a lot to handle. Especially in Indian traffic. I am willing to bet that TK could fill 170 seats on a 321NEO daily if it flew to IXC. Who wouldn't want to save 4 hours? And you get to connect to the hub of an airline that flies to the most places in the world with spectacular coverage in Europe.
I am willing to bet that TK would get higher yields to IXC than it would sending the same 170 pax to DEL. People will pay to avoid a 4 hour roadtrip after a 20 hour trip from North America (counting transit time, pre-boarding, post-arrival, etc. probably closer to 24).
YTZ From Canada, joined Jun 2009, 1480 posts, RR: 23 Reply 63, posted (3 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2263 times:
Quoting sankaps (Reply 61): On non-overlapping markets, TK has a good shot if they can get sufficient demand for those thinner O&Ds.
And TK has far more non-overlapping routes than EK. Include several major cities in Europe. For example, EK offers no service to the most populated city in Germany: Berlin. Or Marseilles in France. Or Edinburgh in Scotland. And no service to anwhere in Norway, Sweden (which has a tiny Indian diasporic community) or Finland.
EK is great if you want to travel from a large major city in Europe. But there are several major cities and a whole host of secondary cities that EK (or EY or QR) does not cover. TK can run quite a successful business connecting all these places to many places (including South Asia).
Their product on India routes is scarcely relevant when the choice is between a one-stop TK flight or a two-stop, two-airline trip.
sankaps From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1374 posts, RR: 0 Reply 64, posted (3 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2205 times:
Quoting YTZ (Reply 63): And TK has far more non-overlapping routes than EK. Include several major cities in Europe. For example, EK offers no service to the most populated city in Germany: Berlin. Or Marseilles in France. Or Edinburgh in Scotland. And no service to anwhere in Norway, Sweden (which has a tiny Indian diasporic community) or Finland.
Quoting YTZ (Reply 63):
Their product on India routes is scarcely relevant when the choice is between a one-stop TK flight or a two-stop, two-airline trip.
Agree on both counts. I have always maintained that TK has a good shot on non-overlapping routes, as long as they can generate sufficient volumes.
ytz From Canada, joined Jun 2009, 1480 posts, RR: 23 Reply 65, posted (3 months 10 hours ago) and read 1881 times:
Quoting sankaps (Reply 64): I have always maintained that TK has a good shot on non-overlapping routes, as long as they can generate sufficient volumes.
I seriously think you are under-estimating TK and over-estimating TK.
I do agree that VFR might prefer transiting in Dubai. But that's low-yield traffic anyway. On the other hand, anybody that flies more often would certainly be attracted to some of TK's advantages (like being a *A carrier). This matters if you do any flying other than just travelling to the motherland.
For example, if you are an American resident and travel often inside North America on UA, why would you take EK to India and not TK? And these types of pax are often higher yielding than once a year VFR traffic.
Quoting sankaps (Reply 52): Product will be its achilles heel.
TK's product is fine. It's more cramped run is the IST-India run on the 333s. But that's hardly that long a ride. TK's TATL on the other hand is certainly on par with EK. And TK has options that EK won't even offer. Like Y+. Try that and you'll be less than impressed when EK puts you in Y thereafter.
Quoting sankaps (Reply 56): But right now they are doubling frequencies to DEL and BOM, where I believe their chances of EK-like success are much lower.
What's EK like success? Several 777s to BOM and DEL per day? How many of those are filled just by O/D traffic? TK obviously won't be filling multiple large widebodies per day to India. But then, that's not their goal. The goal is yield. And TK has some obvious advantages on this front. If you're simply arguing that TK won't carry as many pax to India. Sure. I'll agree with that. If you're suggesting that TK is somehow not competitive on routes to India or that it's not a viable business for TK, I'll respectfully disagree.
The idea that EK is some unbeatable behemoth is bogus. If that were true, LH, BA, AF, LX and 9W that all take in transfer traffic from North America to India (with their biggest loads from cities to where EK/EY/QR also operate) would hardly have any business case to do so. But they all still serve in India. And usually with more than the smallest widebody they can field.
And heck, if you want count Indians working at the airport as an advantage, well Heathrow and DXB aren't really all that far apar! :-P
sankaps From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1374 posts, RR: 0 Reply 66, posted (3 months 10 hours ago) and read 1832 times:
Quoting ytz (Reply 65):
For example, if you are an American resident and travel often inside North America on UA, why would you take EK to India and not TK? And these types of pax are often higher yielding than once a year VFR traffic.
I have already mentioned that Star Alliance is an advantage for TK relative to EK, but it only addresses a part of the FFP base. EK seems to have done quite well for itself globally despite not being in an alliance, bilateral FFP tie-ups seem to have worked for it.
Quoting ytz (Reply 65): TK's product is fine. It's more cramped run is the IST-India run on the 333s. But that's hardly that long a ride. TK's TATL on the other hand is certainly on par with EK. And TK has options that EK won't even offer. Like Y+. Try that and you'll be less than impressed when EK puts you in Y thereafter.
India-IST is a 5-6 hours flight. More cramped is a HUGE disadvantage there for front cabin pax. Especially those connecting on to Europe, which is mainly narrow body with an even more disadvatanged front cabin. Many more will connect to Europe than the UK from IST.
Quoting ytz (Reply 65): What's EK like success? Several 777s to BOM and DEL per day? How many of those are filled just by O/D traffic? TK obviously won't be filling multiple large widebodies per day to India. But then, that's not their goal. The goal is yield. And TK has some obvious advantages on this front
This is where we must agree to diagree. TK will have a fundamental DISADVANTAGE on yield, due to its product, service, culture, and image gap. Star Alliance FFPs from the US and Germany will not be enought to make up for the disadvantage. Ask any pax who is not a Star Alliance FFP: Would they choose EK or TK? I can plac a bet that the majority will say EK unless TK has a much more attractive fare.
Quoting ytz (Reply 65): The idea that EK is some unbeatable behemoth is bogus. If that were true, LH, BA, AF, LX and 9W that all take in transfer traffic from North America to India (with their biggest loads from cities to where EK/EY/QR also operate) would hardly have any business case to do so. But they all still serve in India.
You have ignored relative share of these carriers in the US-India market in recent years.... all have declined while EK has gained share, and will gain even more as it adds more US destinations. India used to be a cash cow for BA, but not anymore. 9W is struggling. US-India non-stops have proved difficult to sustain for both US carriers as well as AI. All but one have bailed out of that now.
lightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 10872 posts, RR: 100 Reply 67, posted (3 months 5 hours ago) and read 1729 times:
Quoting YTZ (Reply 51): Most major non-Indian airlines don't cover most of the cities I listed above. Now imagine one-stop service from Europe or North America to those cities. Great for TK. Amazing option for VFR traffic. A huge boost to Indian tourism.
I imagine TK will do well in those markets.
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 53): The NEO will ultimately allow for sectors upwards of 7+ hours.
And some. I expect the PIPs to come immediately for the A321NEO to stretch the range.
LAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22219 posts, RR: 51 Reply 68, posted (2 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1365 times:
Indian Ministry of Civil Aviation seems not keen to reopen the Turkey bilateral
"On Turkey this official said that no Indian carrier was willing to offer flights to that country and therefore all the rights with India were unused. Hence, there was no need to amend that bilateral for increasing flights."
hohd From United States of America, joined May 2008, 269 posts, RR: 0 Reply 69, posted (2 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1276 times:
Everyone is getting ahead of themselves in the secondary cities quoted in India. The only cities which have a chance are, BLR, HYD, AMD and MAA. Only reason AMD is included, because an extended range narrow body can be operated. All other cities have little to no chance. Even though the list includes BLR, CCU and ATQ, TK has shown interest only to HYD and MAA though and have specifically asked for flights to these cities for a few years.
blrsea From India, joined May 2005, 1228 posts, RR: 3 Reply 70, posted (2 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1220 times:
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 68): Indian Ministry of Civil Aviation seems not keen to reopen the Turkey bilateral
"On Turkey this official said that no Indian carrier was willing to offer flights to that country and therefore all the rights with India were unused. Hence, there was no need to amend that bilateral for increasing flights."
Yup, I am not surprised. As I had mentioned earlier, there isn't much O&D traffic between Turkey & India and the current bilaterals are sufficient for that. I doubt India would increase the rights so that TK can get some 6th freedom rights.
Middle-east carriers is different. There is lots of O&D, and millions of Indians work in ME. So there is give and take on the issue of bilateral rights. Turkey just isn't in the same league.
TurkishWings From United States of America, joined May 2006, 1412 posts, RR: 9 Reply 71, posted (2 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 1091 times:
Quoting ytz (Reply 65): It's more cramped run is the IST-India run on the 333s.
I don't know if you ever flew TK 333s but I can assure you that they are anything but cramped... They are some of the most superior 330s out in the market...
lightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 10872 posts, RR: 100 Reply 72, posted (2 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 1064 times:
Quoting blrsea (Reply 70): Middle-east carriers is different. There is lots of O&D, and millions of Indians work in ME. So there is give and take on the issue of bilateral rights. Turkey just isn't in the same league.
I assume this means Turkey does not use Indian expatriate labor as the mid-east does? (Note, I'm asking.)
The mid-east, in particular Dubai, also help facilitate quite a bit of Indian trade in the region. If Turkey also offered that option... India would be pushing on issues on their side of the bilateral and offering flights in return.
9w748capt From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 412 posts, RR: 0 Reply 73, posted (2 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 1020 times:
Quoting indcwby (Reply 24): For those who've traveled on TK, would someone like to say how they fare product-wise against the ME3?
Quoting sankaps (Reply 66): This is where we must agree to diagree. TK will have a fundamental DISADVANTAGE on yield, due to its product, service, culture, and image gap.
Well for what it's worth - my fiancee and her family recently flew TK LAX-IST-DEL and were extremely impressed. Keep in mind they've flown EK from LAX before too, but they were blown away by TK. Comfortable seats (3-3-3 on the 77W - compare that to EK), delicious Indian veg meals (even ex LAX), very good IFE, and amenity kits(!) in Y. Not to mention by fare they were the cheapest. I've heard other positive reports about TK too. That is an airline on a mission. I wish I wasn't such a loyal oneworld flyer bc I definitely want to try them out. Not to mention a stopover in IST would be enjoyable indeed. She was actually taking a good amount of photos of her journey (sees me reading TRs all the time) and I was going to make a quick TR - but then of course she lost her phone at DEL on her way back
blrsea From India, joined May 2005, 1228 posts, RR: 3 Reply 74, posted (2 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 933 times:
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 72): I assume this means Turkey does not use Indian expatriate labor as the mid-east does? (Note, I'm asking.)
Yes, turkey doesn't use much of expatriate labor. It is mainly the countries in GCC. There is lots of trade too between GCC and India. The bilateral trade with Turkey is pretty low compared to other countries in GCC.
And strategically too, Turkey doesn't offer much. So I doubt there will be more rights granted to Turkey.
CaliAtenza From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1148 posts, RR: 0 Reply 75, posted (2 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 894 times:
Quoting 9w748capt (Reply 73):
Well for what it's worth - my fiancee and her family recently flew TK LAX-IST-DEL and were extremely impressed. Keep in mind they've flown EK from LAX before too, but they were blown away by TK. Comfortable seats (3-3-3 on the 77W - compare that to EK), delicious Indian veg meals (even ex LAX), very good IFE, and amenity kits(!) in Y. Not to mention by fare they were the cheapest. I've heard other positive reports about TK too. That is an airline on a mission. I wish I wasn't such a loyal oneworld flyer bc I definitely want to try them out. Not to mention a stopover in IST would be enjoyable indeed. She was actually taking a good amount of photos of her journey (sees me reading TRs all the time) and I was going to make a quick TR - but then of course she lost her phone at DEL on her way back
sounds like a good flight . Now TK needs to hurry up and start BLR and the other destinations.
YTZ From Canada, joined Jun 2009, 1480 posts, RR: 23 Reply 76, posted (2 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 778 times:
Quoting TurkishWings (Reply 71): I don't know if you ever flew TK 333s but I can assure you that they are anything but cramped... They are some of the most superior 330s out in the market...
Flew them to BOM and back last year. And will be doing so again next month. They are cramped compared to getting a 777, especially TK's own 777s.
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