SpaceshipDC10 From Canada, joined Jan 2013, 410 posts, RR: 0 Posted (3 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 9651 times:
I was on FlightRadar 24, and noticed AC617 circling near Oshawa for a while before finally heading to YUL did a u turn about half way to IST circled severtal times north of Oshawa and is now heading towards YUL.
SpaceshipDC10 From Canada, joined Jan 2013, 410 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (3 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 9536 times:
It's weird. Part of what I typed on the first post is missing following a correction.
To recap, AC617 went to YYZ after circling several times near Oshawa. AC831 turned back to YUL half way en route to YYZ and TK17, arriving from IST, circled several times north of Oshawa before heading east. First I thought it was heading to YUL, but instead it went to YOW.
YYZatcboy From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 809 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (3 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 9182 times:
10 mile in trail for arrivals to 05 due cat 2/3 and poor braking for a while
NAV CANADA ADVZY 010 CYYZ/CZY 02/16/2013 YYZ UDATE -- WX MUCH WORSE THAN FORECAST NEW: Thomsonfly (United Kingdom)">BY MET.... YYZ IS
CAT 2 WITH GROUND-STOP OUT--- TIER 2.... AIR DELAYS ARE HEADING FOR
60 MINUTES QUICKLY... AAR IS ALL THE WAY DOWN TO 10, BECAUSE TOWER
NEEDS 10 MILES FOR ARRIVALS ON RWY 5 DUE VSNEW: Thomsonfly (United Kingdom)">BY AND POOR BAKING
ACTION... THE SNOW IS COMING DOWN HEAVY...THE NEW FORECAST HAS US AT Macedonian Airlines (Greece)">IN
CAT 2 UNTIL AT LEAST 23Z.....CURRENT AAR 14 WITH 80 ACFT AT Macedonian Airlines (Greece)">IN
WE WILL KEEP YOU ADVISED...
NAV CANADA ADVZY 011 CYYZ/CZY 02/16/2013 YYZ UPDATE -- WE ARE REACTING MINUTE NEW: Thomsonfly (United Kingdom)">BY MINUTE TO THE
CHANGING WX CONDITIONS... TEMPORARILY, THE RVR HAS LIFTED TO CAT 1
AND WE ARE ABLE TO RUN 8 MIT ON 6R FOR A PERIOD OF TIME , AAR
18/20.. MET STATES THE WX WILL GO UP AND DOWN FOR THE COUPLE OF
HOURS, SO WE WILL REACT ACCORDINGLY..IMMEDIATE AIR DELAYS WILL FALL
TO THE 25 MINUTE RANGE FOR A CERATIN TIME.. IF THIS RATE HOLDS FOR
AWHILE WE HOPE TO COME OUT OF THE GOUND-STOP AT Macedonian Airlines (Greece)">INTO A GDP...WE WILL
KEEP YOU ADVISED..GTAA IS OUT CLEANING THE RUNWAYS..
SpaceshipDC10 From Canada, joined Jan 2013, 410 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (3 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 9129 times:
AC32 diverted to YOW after 'apparently' aborting landing at YYZ (at least that's the way it looked on FR24) , AC88 circled for a while, is now heading for the runway while BA and S4 are holding at FL 280 and 300 respectively.
YYZatcboy From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 809 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (3 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 8949 times:
Reports of an aircraft with an engine fire in the
CTL ELEMENT: CYYZ
ELEMENT TYPE: APT
ADL TIME: 0151Z
DELAY ASSIGNMENT MODE: DAS
ARRIVALS ESTIMATED FOR: 17/0151Z - 17/0459Z
CUMULATIVE PROGRAM PERIOD: 16/2300Z - 17/0459Z
PROGRAM RATE: 28/24/24/24
FLT INCL: ALL CNDN AND CONTIGUOUS US DEP
DEP SCOPE: (2NDTIER) CZM CZU ZAU ZMP ZID CZY ZBW ZOB ZDC ZNY
MAXIMUM DELAY: 379
AVERAGE DELAY: 185
IMPACTING CONDITION: WEATHER / SNOW-ICE
COMMENTS: DE-ICING FACILITY U/S DUE DISABLED A/C, NO A/C DEPARTING.
RISK OF GRID-LOCK DUE TO GATE HOLDS.
MSJYOP28Apilot From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 130 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (3 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 8341 times:
With CAT II and CAT III visibility values as well as reported heavy snow, most airlines have strict procedures for takeoff in heavy snow conditions. There are typically no holdover times for heavy snow conditions. This means many flights will refuse takeoff until the heavy snow lifts. Others will need to deice several times as the anti-ice fluid quickly loses its effectiveness in heavy snow. When you have moderate snow even, your holdover times can be pretty short depending on the temperature. With a possible long taxi time and runways being alternated for snow removal this can be a challenge.
At YYZ, runway 05 and 06L are the longest runways and the only ones that have a CAT II and III ILS. With a contaminated runway and degraded braking action, most pilots will request the longest runway which is 05 and then 06L for landing. This means the airport authority rotates its snow removal efforts on the runway with 05 ops shifting to 06L operations when 05 needs snow removal and vice versa. 06R only has CAT I arrival. Canadian RVR for CAT I is 2600 instead of the usual 1800-2400 RVR for CAT I in the United States so the threshold for CAT II ops are a bit more restrictive. Most US airports are still doing CAT I at 2000 RVR.
The deicing pad at YYZ favors 06L and 33R/33L ops so taxi times during heavy snow are compounded when YYZ goes down to single runway 05 ops which is a longer taxi time from the deicing pad during time critical operations when the snowfall is moderate to heavy.
At any large airport, heavy snow cripples the airport as deicing and departure waiting times go up while the arrivals keep coming in. Landings are allowed in heavy snow as long as the braking action is not reported as nil and you have the legal visibility to land. Some crews will refuse to land with braking action poor while others will give it a try. After snow removal, it typical stays fair for a while until snow accumulates again.
But with departures slowed down due to heavy snow, a large wait develops with aircraft not able to depart while others have arrived and then want to depart as well. Add in a disabled aircraft on the deice pad, you lower the acceptance rate for the deicing pad and further reduce the departure rate.
Arrival rates will be limited by rotating runway closures for snow removal, CAT II and CAT III RVR values that reduce the arrival rates due to the increases separation required. Also, not every air crew and aircraft is certified for CAT II and CAT III operations so each time the RVR rises and drops, so does the aircraft you can take. To limit volume of aircraft going missed and/or clogging up airspace by holding inbound, ATC at times can restrict arrivals to those with CAT II and CAT III capabilities.
Low vis and heavy snow don't mix well together. Most airlines consider 1/2 mile or less visibility to constitute heavy snow even if the local METAR reports only light snow. This changes from airline to airline depending on the company policy. Most airlines also follow the clean wing philosophy so any thought that there is heavy snow and pilots go the conservative route and start following heavy snow procedures.
heathrow From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2005, 941 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (3 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 7057 times:
We got TK 17 in YOW today as well as an AC 77W. Bad storm I guess.
Apparently drove one of the WG agents to their breaking point today here. Rumour around the airport is they tore their lanyard off on board one of the aircraft and screamed "I don't work for WG any more. Come at me!" At least that's how the rumour goes...
thenoflyzone From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 1964 posts, RR: 12 Reply 18, posted (3 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 6408 times:
Quoting MSJYOP28Apilot (Reply 14): Canadian RVR for CAT I is 2600 instead of the usual 1800-2400 RVR for CAT I in the United States so the threshold for CAT II ops are a bit more restrictive. Most US airports are still doing CAT I at 2000 RVR.
Dont know about YYZ, but here in YUL, I assure you at RVR 2000, we are still at CAT I as well. Approach ban for CAT I for most Canadian commuter or airline operators is 1600 RVR. Private operators, or those who have HUD's can go down to RVR 1200 on a CAT I approach. (other conditions have to be met as well)
I wont go into much details, but suffice to say that the only operators who cannot commence a CAT I approach when the RVR is less than 2600 are the Americans, because they need to take the minimum RVR published on the approach plate.
Canadian operators that meet the requirements can go lower.
[Edited 2013-02-17 06:17:37]
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
A few did, as noted. I understand your earlier thoughts about such a close alternate, but this is an odd example where YHM weather was completely different than YYZ. I live in the country north west of YHM and was in sunshine all day!
In fact my sister, who lives about 5 kms from YYZ was in sun all day as well. As I said above, it wasn't really as much a snow storm, as it was very well aimed lake effect.
Looking at the original YYZ forecast for the time period, it was never forecast to go below 4SM in snow, with a Prob30 of 1 1/2 in snow. So when everything was leaving Europe and Asia heading for YYZ, it was forecast literally VFR. And ... a scary thought ... No Alternate IFR would have been legal!
The forecast was amended to include the snow, (after it started), and still was not forecast below 2 1/2 in snow, with a Prob30 of 3/4 in snow ... still CAT 1 limits!
Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night