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What Is Going On At YYZ?  
User currently offlineSpaceshipDC10 From Canada, joined Jan 2013, 1977 posts, RR: 3
Posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 11656 times:

I was on FlightRadar 24, and noticed AC617 circling near Oshawa for a while before finally heading to YUL did a u turn about half way to IST circled severtal times north of Oshawa and is now heading towards YUL.

[Edited 2013-02-16 14:40:08]


I wish I was a glow worm.
34 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBoeing744 From Canada, joined Jun 2005, 1842 posts, RR: 23
Reply 1, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 11585 times:

Interesting. Can you see any other diversions?

It looks like TK 17 is going to Ottawa.

Edit: AC 917 from Miami going to Ottawa too...

[Edited 2013-02-16 14:43:47]

User currently offlineSpaceshipDC10 From Canada, joined Jan 2013, 1977 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 11541 times:

It's weird. Part of what I typed on the first post is missing following a correction.

To recap, AC617 went to YYZ after circling several times near Oshawa. AC831 turned back to YUL half way en route to YYZ and TK17, arriving from IST, circled several times north of Oshawa before heading east. First I thought it was heading to YUL, but instead it went to YOW.

Quoting Boeing744 (Reply 1):
Interesting. Can you see any other diversions?

AC849 has just made a loop near Lake Simcoe.



I wish I was a glow worm.
User currently offlineMEL From Canada, joined Oct 1999, 1100 posts, RR: 13
Reply 3, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 11498 times:

looks like it is low visibility. CAT 2 and CAT 1 approaches to runway 05 right now.


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User currently offlineYYZatcboy From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 1090 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 11486 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
CUSTOMER SERVICE & SUPPORT

SPECI CYYZ 162232Z 36011KT 1/4SM R05/1600FT/N R06R/3000FT/D
+SHSN DRSN VV003 M06/ RMK SN8

SPECI CYYZ 162226Z CCA 36009KT 1/2SM R05/4000FT/D R06R/4000FT/D
SHSN DRSN VV004 M06/ RMK SN8

SPECI CYYZ 162226Z 36009KT 1/2SM R05/4000FT/D R06R/4000FT/D SHSN
VV004 M06/ RMK SN8

CYYZ 162200Z 01011KT 1SM R05/2600FT/N R06R/5500FT/N -SHSN VV009
M06/M07 A2995 RESN RMK SN8 /S08/ SLP153

SPECI CYYZ 162140Z 03010KT 3/4SM R05/1400FT/N R06L/3500VP6000FT/U
-SHSN VV008 M06/ RESN RMK SN8

SPECI CYYZ 162132Z CCA 04008KT 5/8SM R05/1400FT/N R06L/2600V5000FT/N
-SHSN VV006 M06/ RESN RMK SN8

SPECI CYYZ 162132Z 04008KT 5/8SM R05/1400FT/N R06L/2600V5000FT/N
-SHSN VV006 M06/ RMK SN8

SPECI CYYZ 162119Z 04009KT 1/4SM R05/1600V2200FT/N R06L/2000FT/N
+SHSN VV002 M05/ RMK SN8

CYYZ 162100Z 04006KT 1/2SM R05/2600V4000FT/D R06L/2800V4500FT/D
SHSN VV005 M05/M06 A2994 RESN RMK SN8 /S05/ SLP150

SPECI CYYZ 162056Z 05006KT 1/2SM R05/5000FT/D R06L/3000V4500FT/N SHSN
VV005 M05/ RESN RMK SN8

SPECI CYYZ 162018Z 34003KT 1/4SM R05/P6000FT/N R06L/3000FT/N +SHSN
VV002 M05/ RMK SN8

SPECI CYYZ 162010Z 31003KT 1/2SM R05/P6000FT/N R06L/3000FT/D SHSN
VV004 M05/ RMK SN8

CYYZ 162000Z 29003KT 3/4SM R05/P6000FT/N R06L/3500V5000FT/D
-SHSN VV006 M04/M06 A2994 RMK SN8 /S01/ SLP149

SPECI CYYZ 161950Z 31002KT 3/4SM R05/P6000FT/U R06L/4000V5500FT/D
-SHSN VV008 M04/ RMK SN8

SPECI CYYZ 161944Z 30002KT 1SM R05/P6000FT/D R06L/4000VP6000FT/D
-SHSN VV008 M04/ RMK SN8

SPECI CYYZ 161929Z 18002KT 2SM -SHSN VV018 M04/ RMK SN8

CYYZ 161900Z 00000KT 4SM -SHSN OVC019 M04/M08 A2995 RMK SC8
PCPN VRY LGT SLP152

SPECI CYYZ 161808Z 00000KT 4SM -SHSN BKN018 M04/ RMK SC6

CYYZ 161800Z 00000KT 2 1/2SM -SHSN OVC018 M04/M07 A2997 RMK
SN6SC2 SLP159

SPECI CYYZ 161720Z 34003KT 2 1/2SM -SHSN OVC024 M04/ RMK SN5SC3

CYYZ 161700Z CCA 35002KT 12SM -SHSN SCT018 OVC039 M04/M08 A2999
RMK SC4SC3 PCPN VRY LGT SLP166



DHC1/3/4 MD11/88 L1011 A319/20/21/30 B727 735/6/7/8/9 762/3 E175/90 CRJ/700/705 CC150. J/S DH8D 736/7/8
User currently offlineGr8Circle From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 3122 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 11394 times:

Well, there is steady snowfall over the city for the past couple of hours but doesn't look as though it's bad enough to cause diversions.....

User currently offlinelonghauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 5121 posts, RR: 43
Reply 6, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 11352 times:

Quoting Gr8Circle (Reply 5):
Well, there is steady snowfall over the city for the past couple of hours but doesn't look as though it's bad enough to cause diversions.....

It is very well aimed lake effect. Go a few miles either direction and its sunny!

With RVR1600, and CAT 2/3 ops, things really slow down a lot.



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offlineYYZatcboy From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 1090 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 11187 times:
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10 mile in trail for arrivals to 05 due cat 2/3 and poor braking for a while

NAV CANADA ADVZY 010 CYYZ/CZY 02/16/2013 YYZ UDATE -- WX MUCH WORSE THAN FORECAST NEW: Thomsonfly (United Kingdom)">BY MET.... YYZ IS
CAT 2 WITH GROUND-STOP OUT--- TIER 2.... AIR DELAYS ARE HEADING FOR
60 MINUTES QUICKLY... AAR IS ALL THE WAY DOWN TO 10, BECAUSE TOWER
NEEDS 10 MILES FOR ARRIVALS ON RWY 5 DUE VSNEW: Thomsonfly (United Kingdom)">BY AND POOR BAKING
ACTION... THE SNOW IS COMING DOWN HEAVY...THE NEW FORECAST HAS US AT Macedonian Airlines (Greece)">IN
CAT 2 UNTIL AT LEAST 23Z.....CURRENT AAR 14 WITH 80 ACFT AT Macedonian Airlines (Greece)">IN
BOUND.........
WE WILL KEEP YOU ADVISED...

NAV CANADA ADVZY 011 CYYZ/CZY 02/16/2013 YYZ UPDATE -- WE ARE REACTING MINUTE NEW: Thomsonfly (United Kingdom)">BY MINUTE TO THE
CHANGING WX CONDITIONS... TEMPORARILY, THE RVR HAS LIFTED TO CAT 1
AND WE ARE ABLE TO RUN 8 MIT ON 6R FOR A PERIOD OF TIME , AAR
18/20.. MET STATES THE WX WILL GO UP AND DOWN FOR THE COUPLE OF
HOURS, SO WE WILL REACT ACCORDINGLY..IMMEDIATE AIR DELAYS WILL FALL
TO THE 25 MINUTE RANGE FOR A CERATIN TIME.. IF THIS RATE HOLDS FOR
AWHILE WE HOPE TO COME OUT OF THE GOUND-STOP AT Macedonian Airlines (Greece)">INTO A GDP...WE WILL
KEEP YOU ADVISED..GTAA IS OUT CLEANING THE RUNWAYS..



DHC1/3/4 MD11/88 L1011 A319/20/21/30 B727 735/6/7/8/9 762/3 E175/90 CRJ/700/705 CC150. J/S DH8D 736/7/8
User currently offlineSpaceshipDC10 From Canada, joined Jan 2013, 1977 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 11134 times:

AC32 diverted to YOW after 'apparently' aborting landing at YYZ (at least that's the way it looked on FR24) , AC88 circled for a while, is now heading for the runway while BA and S4 are holding at FL 280 and 300 respectively.


I wish I was a glow worm.
User currently offlineYYZatcboy From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 1090 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 10954 times:
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Reports of an aircraft with an engine fire in the

CTL ELEMENT: CYYZ
ELEMENT TYPE: APT
ADL TIME: 0151Z
DELAY ASSIGNMENT MODE: DAS
ARRIVALS ESTIMATED FOR: 17/0151Z - 17/0459Z
CUMULATIVE PROGRAM PERIOD: 16/2300Z - 17/0459Z
PROGRAM RATE: 28/24/24/24
FLT INCL: ALL CNDN AND CONTIGUOUS US DEP
DEP SCOPE: (2NDTIER) CZM CZU ZAU ZMP ZID CZY ZBW ZOB ZDC ZNY
MAXIMUM DELAY: 379
AVERAGE DELAY: 185
IMPACTING CONDITION: WEATHER / SNOW-ICE
COMMENTS: DE-ICING FACILITY U/S DUE DISABLED A/C, NO A/C DEPARTING.
RISK OF GRID-LOCK DUE TO GATE HOLDS.
170156-170559

[Edited 2013-02-16 18:27:08]


DHC1/3/4 MD11/88 L1011 A319/20/21/30 B727 735/6/7/8/9 762/3 E175/90 CRJ/700/705 CC150. J/S DH8D 736/7/8
User currently offlinethenoflyzone From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 2637 posts, RR: 11
Reply 10, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week ago) and read 10820 times:

We were talking about diversions from YYZ and where they usually head to in the following thread.

777 Landing In Ottawa Right Now From Toronto? (by katanapilot Feb 7 2013 in Civil Aviation)

Do we know if any aircraft actually landed in YHM?

Thenoflyzone



us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
User currently offlineYYZatcboy From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 1090 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (1 year 9 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 10780 times:
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YYZ Gridlocked

ARRIVALS: 05 / DEPARTURES: 06L
AAR: 05
AIR DELAYS: UP TO 1 HOUR. AIRPORT GRID-LOCKED.




CTL ELEMENT: CYYZ
ELEMENT TYPE: APT
ADL TIME: 0253Z
GROUND STOP PERIOD: 17/0245Z - 17/0400Z
CUMULATIVE PROGRAM PERIOD: 16/2300Z - 17/0659Z
DEP FACILITIES INCLUDED: (Manual) CZM CZU ZTL CZW ZAU ZMP ZID ZMA
CZY
ZJX ZBW ZOB ZDC ZNY
PREVIOUS TOTAL, MAXIMUM, AVERAGE DELAYS: 132 / 131 / 22
NEW TOTAL, MAXIMUM, AVERAGE DELAYS: 380 / 161 / 63
PROBABILITY OF EXTENSION: MEDIUM
IMPACTING CONDITION: WEATHER / SNOW-ICE
COMMENTS: AIRPORT GRID-LOCKED
170254-170500

[Edited 2013-02-16 19:02:12]


DHC1/3/4 MD11/88 L1011 A319/20/21/30 B727 735/6/7/8/9 762/3 E175/90 CRJ/700/705 CC150. J/S DH8D 736/7/8
User currently offlineSkydrol From Canada, joined Oct 2003, 979 posts, RR: 10
Reply 12, posted (1 year 9 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 10694 times:

Typical failure of the "world class" airport due to a few inches of snow... inefficient "high-tech automated" deicing, no gates available... useless!!!

YYZ = hold, divert, delay, cancel



✈ LD4 ✈



∙ ---{--« ∙ ----{--« ∙ --{-« ∙ ---{--« ∙ --{--« ∙ --{-« ∙ ----{--« ∙
User currently offlineYYZatcboy From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 1090 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (1 year 9 months 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 10627 times:
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Actually the problems today are mostly caused by a LH flight that had an engine fire on the deice pad.


DHC1/3/4 MD11/88 L1011 A319/20/21/30 B727 735/6/7/8/9 762/3 E175/90 CRJ/700/705 CC150. J/S DH8D 736/7/8
User currently offlineMSJYOP28Apilot From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 234 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (1 year 9 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 10346 times:

With CAT II and CAT III visibility values as well as reported heavy snow, most airlines have strict procedures for takeoff in heavy snow conditions. There are typically no holdover times for heavy snow conditions. This means many flights will refuse takeoff until the heavy snow lifts. Others will need to deice several times as the anti-ice fluid quickly loses its effectiveness in heavy snow. When you have moderate snow even, your holdover times can be pretty short depending on the temperature. With a possible long taxi time and runways being alternated for snow removal this can be a challenge.

At YYZ, runway 05 and 06L are the longest runways and the only ones that have a CAT II and III ILS. With a contaminated runway and degraded braking action, most pilots will request the longest runway which is 05 and then 06L for landing. This means the airport authority rotates its snow removal efforts on the runway with 05 ops shifting to 06L operations when 05 needs snow removal and vice versa. 06R only has CAT I arrival. Canadian RVR for CAT I is 2600 instead of the usual 1800-2400 RVR for CAT I in the United States so the threshold for CAT II ops are a bit more restrictive. Most US airports are still doing CAT I at 2000 RVR.

The deicing pad at YYZ favors 06L and 33R/33L ops so taxi times during heavy snow are compounded when YYZ goes down to single runway 05 ops which is a longer taxi time from the deicing pad during time critical operations when the snowfall is moderate to heavy.

At any large airport, heavy snow cripples the airport as deicing and departure waiting times go up while the arrivals keep coming in. Landings are allowed in heavy snow as long as the braking action is not reported as nil and you have the legal visibility to land. Some crews will refuse to land with braking action poor while others will give it a try. After snow removal, it typical stays fair for a while until snow accumulates again.

But with departures slowed down due to heavy snow, a large wait develops with aircraft not able to depart while others have arrived and then want to depart as well. Add in a disabled aircraft on the deice pad, you lower the acceptance rate for the deicing pad and further reduce the departure rate.

Arrival rates will be limited by rotating runway closures for snow removal, CAT II and CAT III RVR values that reduce the arrival rates due to the increases separation required. Also, not every air crew and aircraft is certified for CAT II and CAT III operations so each time the RVR rises and drops, so does the aircraft you can take. To limit volume of aircraft going missed and/or clogging up airspace by holding inbound, ATC at times can restrict arrivals to those with CAT II and CAT III capabilities.

Low vis and heavy snow don't mix well together. Most airlines consider 1/2 mile or less visibility to constitute heavy snow even if the local METAR reports only light snow. This changes from airline to airline depending on the company policy. Most airlines also follow the clean wing philosophy so any thought that there is heavy snow and pilots go the conservative route and start following heavy snow procedures.


User currently offlineSpaceshipDC10 From Canada, joined Jan 2013, 1977 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (1 year 9 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 9511 times:

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 10):
Do we know if any aircraft actually landed in YHM?

WS258 AC992 AC973 AC957 QK8949 TS691



I wish I was a glow worm.
User currently offlineheathrow From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2005, 980 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (1 year 9 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 9062 times:

We got TK 17 in YOW today as well as an AC 77W. Bad storm I guess.

Apparently drove one of the WG agents to their breaking point today here. Rumour around the airport is they tore their lanyard off on board one of the aircraft and screamed "I don't work for WG any more. Come at me!" At least that's how the rumour goes...


User currently offlineSpaceshipDC10 From Canada, joined Jan 2013, 1977 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (1 year 9 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 8822 times:

Quoting heathrow (Reply 16):
We got TK 17 in YOW today as well as an AC 77W

Indeed. That was AC 32. It attempted to land twice at YYZ before diverting to YOW.



I wish I was a glow worm.
User currently offlinethenoflyzone From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 2637 posts, RR: 11
Reply 18, posted (1 year 9 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 8413 times:

Quoting MSJYOP28Apilot (Reply 14):
Canadian RVR for CAT I is 2600 instead of the usual 1800-2400 RVR for CAT I in the United States so the threshold for CAT II ops are a bit more restrictive. Most US airports are still doing CAT I at 2000 RVR.

Dont know about YYZ, but here in YUL, I assure you at RVR 2000, we are still at CAT I as well. Approach ban for CAT I for most Canadian commuter or airline operators is 1600 RVR. Private operators, or those who have HUD's can go down to RVR 1200 on a CAT I approach. (other conditions have to be met as well)

I wont go into much details, but suffice to say that the only operators who cannot commence a CAT I approach when the RVR is less than 2600 are the Americans, because they need to take the minimum RVR published on the approach plate.

Canadian operators that meet the requirements can go lower.

Thenoflyzone

[Edited 2013-02-17 06:17:37]


us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
User currently offlinetransaeroyyz From Canada, joined Dec 2010, 150 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 9 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 8389 times:

News reporting a flight was evacuated due to smoke in the cabin, probably from deicing fluid sucked into the engines, but they never mention the airline.

User currently offlineJAGflyer From Canada, joined Aug 2004, 3565 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (1 year 9 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 7965 times:

Quoting transaeroyyz (Reply 19):

That was most likely Lufthansa 471 (YYZ-FRA)



Support the beer and soda can industry, recycle old airplanes!
User currently offlineUnited_fan From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 7520 posts, RR: 7
Reply 21, posted (1 year 9 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 7336 times:

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/A...5/history/20130216/2245Z/TNCA/CYUL

I heard AC 1295 on the scanner last night,looks like it diverted to YUL . Pax must have been thrilled ,coming back from AUA to a snow storm.



'Empathy was yesterday...Today, you're wasting my Mother-F'ing time' - Heat.
User currently offlinelonghauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 5121 posts, RR: 43
Reply 22, posted (1 year 9 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 7112 times:

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 10):
Do we know if any aircraft actually landed in YHM?

A few did, as noted. I understand your earlier thoughts about such a close alternate, but this is an odd example where YHM weather was completely different than YYZ. I live in the country north west of YHM and was in sunshine all day!

In fact my sister, who lives about 5 kms from YYZ was in sun all day as well. As I said above, it wasn't really as much a snow storm, as it was very well aimed lake effect.

Looking at the original YYZ forecast for the time period, it was never forecast to go below 4SM in snow, with a Prob30 of 1 1/2 in snow. So when everything was leaving Europe and Asia heading for YYZ, it was forecast literally VFR. And ... a scary thought ... No Alternate IFR would have been legal!

The forecast was amended to include the snow, (after it started), and still was not forecast below 2 1/2 in snow, with a Prob30 of 3/4 in snow ... still CAT 1 limits!



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offlinecyxuk From Canada, joined Mar 2009, 111 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (1 year 9 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 6383 times:

Quoting JAGflyer (Reply 20):
That was most likely Lufthansa 471 (YYZ-FRA)

It was.

There were delays of up to 3-4 hours for deicing last night. Problems with this flight and low manpower were citied as the reasons for the backlog.

Many flights were still departing at 3AM-4AM, and curfew extensions were granted form the GTAA.


User currently offlineSpaceshipDC10 From Canada, joined Jan 2013, 1977 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (1 year 9 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 5953 times:

Yesterday, 64 arrivals and 75 departures were canceled at YYZ.


I wish I was a glow worm.
25 NorthStarDC4M : As of right now at YYZ the only weirdness i can see is Alitalia is running 2 departures, the normal 651 and a 6651, one appears to of been here overni
26 pnwtraveler : There was a band of lake effect snow that had full blizzard like conditions. As Longhauler said, as I drove out of the middle of the snow band near my
27 Kaiarahi : Prudent move to pre-emptively fire herself before all the a.net IROP experts from the last Sunwing thread get on here and demand that she be fired, f
28 Post contains images brilondon : Could use a translator You don't fly very much do you. I would gladly opt for an alternative airport than have what happened to the AF A340 a few yea
29 Post contains links YYZatcboy : Sure http://www.ivao.aero/training/tutorials/metar/metar.htm
30 Post contains links transaeroyyz : Air Canada passengers on two flights stuck on Pearson Airport tarmac for over eight hours, http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2013...t_tarmac_for_over_ei
31 brilondon : Thanks, I am not an aviator and really don't know the codes and what all the acronyms mean. That was very helpful.
32 Post contains images SpaceshipDC10 : Wow. Lets assume that this is the way things really happened on these two flights. Matteis said flight staff debated whether or not to have the passe
33 Post contains links thenoflyzone : correct me if I am wrong, but based on CAR 725.35, flights departing Asia or Europe cannot file No alternate IFR, since they are more than 6 hours fr
34 longhauler : That's right. And had there been any other issues in say HKG, FRA, or GRU (for example) that used more than planned fuel before departure, they could
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