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OAG Changes 2/22/2013: B6/DL/UA/VX/WN  
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7048 posts, RR: 13
Posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 10087 times:

INSTRUCTIONS

WHAT IS THIS REPORT?
This compares what is for sale THIS WEEK for the stated period versus what was for sale LAST WEEK...It does NOT compare to last year or now (UNLESS OTHERWISE STATED).

HOW DO I READ IT?
XXX-YYY DEC 4>5 JAN 4>5 ; means that the listed airline changed the frequency between the two airports to add from 4 to 5 roundtrips in December and January. No other months were changed. I only list one direction, although it is possible the listed change is only one way. It is too difficult to average the two directions. I assume the change is roundtrip and that is most often the case.

HOW ARE THE DAILY DEPARTURES CALCULATED?
This report uses total operations for the month listed, divided over the days in the month.

WHAT ARE THE FRACTIONAL FLIGHTS?
Non-daily operations create fractional weekly service. In most cases flights are rounded, but in the case of international service or markets with low frequency, fractions are shown. If a flight operated 5 days out of 7, it would show 0.8 flights.

WHY ARE THERE WEIRD FREQUENCIES IN FAR AWAY MONTHS FOR LCCs?
Most airlines publish schedules 11 months in advance. This report covers the next 9 months. That avoids seeing schedules as they are loaded. Several LCCs load their schedules less than 9 months into the future. Their schedules may also end mid-month. If B6 loads their schedule until Jan15, all flights in Janaury will show half frequency because of the way the report is created.

WHY IS A WHOLE AIRLINE'S SCHEDULE SHOWN AS CHANGING FOR A FUTURE MONTH?
Similarly to the previous question, some airlines load their schedule from nothing inside the 9 month window of this report. When their schedule is extended it will show as new service because there was no previous schedule to compare to. In some instances I will show a more valid comparison against another period.

THOSE FLIGHTS AREN'T DELTA, THEY ARE PINNACLE
This report only shows the marketing code. It is too complicated to show all the operators.

THE FREQUENCIES MAY HAVE CHANGED AS YOU SHOW, BUT THE SEATS DIDNT CHANGE BECAUSE OF EQUIPMENT SWAPS
That is a natural weakness of a frequency based report, but it provides something to discuss below.

THE FREQUENCY DOESN'T SHOW A CHANGE, E.G. 4>4
This happens as a result of rounding. There is a change in service that is large enough to be listed, but through rounding it does not appear.

I marked some of the ones I thought were interesting with an "*".

9K STT-SJU APR 9>10

AA DFW-YVR JUN 2>3 JUL 2>3
AA MIA-RTB JUL 0.1>0.3

AC CVG-YYZ APR 1.7>1.4
AC DEN-YYZ APR 2>1.9
AC MCO-YYZ OCT 1.7>3
AC MKE-YYZ APR 1.7>1.4
AC MSP-YYZ APR 4>3
AC STL-YYZ APR 1.7>1.6

AM JFK-MEX APR 5>4
AM LAS-MEX APR 3>1.4 MAY 3>2
AM LAX-GDL APR 1.1>1.3
AM ORD-MEX APR 1.8>3
AM SMF-GDL APR 0.5>0.7

*AS PDX-FAI JUN 0>0.7 JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>1.0
AS PDX-LAX JUL 5>6
Interesting. I remember when they had 3rts. Pressure on F9?
*AS SEA-DEN JUN 4>5 JUL 4>5 AUG 4>5
AS SEA-FAI JUL 4>3 AUG 4>3
AS SEA-SAN JUN 8>9 JUL 8>9 AUG 8>9

AZ LAX-FCO OCT 0.8>0.5
AZ MIA-FCO SEP 1.0>0.9

VX response
*B6 AUS-SFO JUN 1.0>2 JUL 1.0>2 AUG 1.0>2
Probably also VX related
*B6 FLL-SFO JUN 1.0>2 JUL 1.0>2 AUG 1.0>2 SEP 1.0>2 OCT 0.8>1.7
B6 JFK-BQN APR 2>1.3 MAY 2>1.1
B6 JFK-SDQ MAY 4>5 JUN 5>6 JUL 7>8 AUG 7>8 SEP 5>6 OCT 4>5
B6 JFK-STI MAY 5>6 JUN 6>7 JUL 7>8 AUG 7>8 SEP 6>7 OCT 5>6

BB SJU-DOM APR 0>1.0 MAY 0>1.0 JUN 0>1.0 JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>1.0 SEP 0>1.0 OCT 0>1.0
BB SJU-EIS APR 8>6 MAY 8>6 JUN 8>6 JUL 8>6 AUG 8>6 SEP 0>6 OCT 0>6
BB SJU-FDF APR 0>0.5 MAY 0>0.6 JUN 0>0.6 JUL 0>0.5 AUG 0>0.6 SEP 0>0.6 OCT 0>0.5
BB SJU-PTP APR 0>0.6 MAY 0>0.5 JUN 0>0.6 JUL 0>0.6 AUG 0>0.6 SEP 0>0.6 OCT 0>0.6
BB SJU-STT APR 2>5 MAY 2>5 JUN 2>5 JUL 2>5 AUG 2>5 SEP 0>5 OCT 0>5
BB SJU-STX APR 5>3 MAY 5>3 JUN 5>4 JUL 5>4 AUG 5>4 SEP 0>4 OCT 0>4
BB SJU-VIJ SEP 0>1.0 OCT 0>1.0
BB SJU-VQS APR 0.4>1.3 MAY 0.5>1.5 JUN 0.4>1.4 JUL 0.4>1.4 AUG 0.5>1.5 SEP 0>1.0 OCT 0>1.0
BB STT-SJU APR 3>5 MAY 3>5 JUN 3>5 JUL 3>5 AUG 3>5 SEP 0>5 OCT 0>5
BB STT-STX APR 1.1>8 MAY 1.0>7 JUN 0>7 JUL 0>7 AUG 0>7 SEP 0>5 OCT 0>5
BB STX-SJU APR 5>4 MAY 5>4 SEP 0>5 OCT 0>5
BB STX-VQS APR 0>1.0 MAY 0>1.0 JUN 0>1.0 JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>1.0 SEP 0>1.0 OCT 0>1.0
BB VQS-SJU APR 0>1.0 MAY 0>1.0 JUN 0>1.0 JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>1.0 SEP 0>1.0 OCT 0>1.0

DL ATL-DEN JUL 9>8
DL ATL-EVV JUN 4>5 JUL 4>5
DL ATL-EWN JUN 3>4 JUL 3>4
DL ATL-ILM JUN 6>7 JUL 6>7
DL ATL-JAN JUN 8>9 JUL 8>9
DL ATL-LAS JUN 8>7 JUL 8>7
DL ATL-MGM APR 10>9 JUL 10>9
DL ATL-OAJ JUN 5>6 JUL 5>6
DL ATL-TLH JUN 9>11 JUL 9>11 AUG 8>10 SEP 8>9 OCT 8>9
DL ATL-TRI JUL 7>8
DL ATL-YYC JUL 0>0.1 AUG 0>0.2
DL CVG-BWI JUL 4>3 AUG 4>3 SEP 4>3 OCT 4>3
DL CVG-MDT JUN 1.4>0.8 JUL 1.7>0.8 AUG 1.7>0.8
DL CVG-MSN JUN 1.7>1.1 JUL 1.7>0.8
DL CVG-YYZ JUN 3>1.8 JUL 3>1.5 AUG 3>1.5 SEP 3>1.6 OCT 3>1.7
DL DTW-ATL JUN 10>11 JUL 10>11
DL DTW-AVP JUN 4>3 JUL 4>3
DL DTW-EVV JUL 5>4
DL DTW-PIT JUN 6>7 JUL 6>7
DL DTW-PVD JUN 7>8 JUL 7>8
DL DTW-RSW JUL 3>2.0
DL FNT-MSP JUN 3>1.8 JUL 3>1.8
DL JFK-BOS JUN 5>6 JUL 5>6 AUG 5>6
DL JFK-DTW JUN 3>4 JUL 3>4 AUG 3>4
DL JFK-PHX JUN 1.8>1.2 JUL 1.8>1.0
DL JFK-YYZ APR 1.9>2
DL JFK-ZRH JUN 1.0>0.5
DL LAN-MSP JUN 1.9>3 JUL 1.8>3
*DL LAX-ANC JUN 0>0.1 JUL 0>0.3 AUG 0>0.3
*DL LAX-BOS JUN 0>0.7 JUL 0>1.0
DL LAX-GDL JUL 1.0>1.1 AUG 0.4>0.5 SEP 0>0.1 OCT 0>0.1
*DL LAX-GEG JUL 0>1.0
*DL LAX-PVR JUL 0.1>1.0 AUG 0.1>1.0 SEP 0>1.0 OCT 0>1.0
DL LGA-BGR MAY 4>5 JUN 4>5 JUL 4>5 SEP 4>5 OCT 4>5
DL LGA-CHS MAY 5>4 JUN 5>4 JUL 5>4
DL MEM-SEA JUL 0>0.9
DL MSP-SDF JUN 3>4 JUL 4>5
DL MSP-YWG JUN 5>6 JUL 5>6 AUG 5>6
DL SFO-HNL JUN 1.0>0.9 JUL 1.1>1.0
DL SLC-RAP JUN 1.7>3 JUL 1.9>3

F9 COU-MCO MAY 0.5>0.1
F9 GSO-MCO MAY 0.3>0.1

Following is a comparison of F9's Summer schedule versus 2012
Looks like DE is down 27 rts or so...
F9 BMI-MCO JUL 0.4>0.3 AUG 0.5>0.1
F9 COS-LAX JUN 0.9>0 JUL 0.8>0 AUG 0.9>0
F9 COS-PHX JUN 1.0>0 JUL 1.0>0 AUG 1.0>0
F9 DCA-OMA JUN 1.8>1.0 JUL 1.9>1.0 AUG 1.9>1.0
F9 DEN-ATL JUN 3>0.9 JUL 3>1.0 AUG 3>1.0
F9 DEN-BLI JUN 1.0>0.6 JUL 1.0>0.6 AUG 1.0>0.6
F9 DEN-BNA JUN 3>1.7 JUL 3>1.9
F9 DEN-BZN JUN 2>1.0 JUL 2>1.0 AUG 2>1.3
F9 DEN-COS JUN 4>0 JUL 4>0 AUG 4>0
F9 DEN-CVG JUN 0>1.0 JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>1.0
F9 DEN-CZM JUN 0>0.2 JUL 0>0.1
F9 DEN-DAY JUN 2>0 JUL 2>0 AUG 2>0
F9 DEN-DFW JUN 7>5 JUL 7>5 AUG 6>5
F9 DEN-DRO JUN 2>1.0 JUL 2>1.0 AUG 2>1.0
F9 DEN-DSM JUN 2>1.0 JUL 2>1.0 AUG 2>1.3
F9 DEN-DTW JUN 3>1.0 JUL 3>1.0 AUG 3>1.3
F9 DEN-FLL JUN 1.4>1.0 JUL 1.4>1.0
F9 DEN-GEG JUN 3>1.0 JUL 3>1.3 AUG 3>1.6
F9 DEN-IAH JUN 0>3 JUL 1.3>3
F9 DEN-LAS JUN 7>5 JUL 7>5 AUG 7>6
F9 DEN-LAX JUN 5>4 JUL 5>4 AUG 5>4
F9 DEN-LGA JUN 4>1.8 JUL 4>1.9 AUG 4>1.8
F9 DEN-LIT JUN 1.0>0.6 JUL 1.0>0.6 AUG 1.0>0.6
F9 DEN-MDW JUN 5>3 JUL 5>4 AUG 5>3
F9 DEN-MSP JUN 5>4 JUL 5>4 AUG 5>4
F9 DEN-MSY AUG 0.6>0.4
F9 DEN-OKC JUL 3>2
F9 DEN-OMA JUN 4>3 JUL 4>3 AUG 4>3
F9 DEN-PHF JUN 1.0>0.6 JUL 1.0>0.6 AUG 1.0>0.5
F9 DEN-SBA JUN 1.6>0.8 JUL 1.5>0.9 AUG 1.3>0.9
F9 DEN-SEA JUN 6>5 JUL 6>5 AUG 6>5
F9 DEN-TPA AUG 0.6>0.4
F9 DEN-TYS JUN 0.6>0.4
F9 MCI-DCA JUN 1.8>1.0 JUL 2.0>1.0 AUG 2>1.0
F9 MCI-DEN JUN 5>4
F9 MCO-MDT JUL 0.6>0.4 AUG 0.6>0.3
F9 MDW-TTN JUN 0>0.8 JUL 0>0.9 AUG 0>0.8
F9 MKE-DEN JUN 4>3 JUL 4>3 AUG 4>3
F9 ORD-MBJ JUN 0>0.2 JUL 0.3>0.1
F9 ORD-PUJ JUN 0>0.4 JUL 0.2>0.5
F9 RDU-TTN JUN 0>0.8 JUL 0>0.9 AUG 0>0.8
F9 RFD-CUN JUN 0>0.2
F9 STL-HUX JUN 0>0.1 JUL 0>0.1
F9 STL-MBJ JUN 0>0.3

HA HNL-KOA MAR 18>19 APR 19>20 MAY 19>20
HA HNL-OGG MAR 26>25 APR 26>25 MAY 26>25
*HA OAK-HNL JUN 0.5>0.8 JUL 0.6>1.0 AUG 0.6>1.0 SEP 0.6>1.0
HA OGG-KOA APR 3>2 MAY 3>2

JJ JFK-GRU APR 2>1.1 MAY 2>1.0 JUN 2>1.0 JUL 2>1.0 AUG 2>1.0 SEP 2>1.0 OCT 2>1.0

JQ HNL-SYD OCT 0.2>0.8

LA JFK-LIM MAR 1.6>1.3
LA MHC-PMC JUL 0.1>0.5 OCT 0>0.4
*LA MIA-BOG MAR 0>1.0 APR 0>1.0 MAY 0>1.0 JUN 0>1.0 JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>1.0 SEP 0>1.0 OCT 0>1.0
LA SFO-LIM APR 1.1>0.6 MAY 1.2>0.6 JUN 1.1>0.6 JUL 1.1>0.5 AUG 1.2>0.6 SEP 1.1>0.6

P1 SJU-PUJ JUN 0.0>0.2

UA CLE-CMH JUL 4>3 AUG 4>3
UA CLE-MDT JUL 3>1.7
UA CLE-MHT JUL 1.7>3 AUG 1.6>3
UA DEN-CLE JUL 4>5 AUG 4>5
UA DEN-CVG JUN 1.0>1.7
UA DEN-PHX JUL 5>4
*UA DEN-SGU JUN 0>0.8 JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>1.0 SEP 0>1.0 OCT 0>1.0
UA DEN-YEG JUL 2>3
*UA EWR-ANC JUL 0>0.1 AUG 0>0.2
UA EWR-YYZ JUN 9>8
UA IAD-ALB JUL 3>4 AUG 3>4
UA IAD-CAE JUL 4>3 AUG 4>3
UA IAD-CLE JUL 5>6 AUG 5>6
UA IAD-PWM JUL 2>3 AUG 2>3
*UA IAD-YQB AUG 0>0.2 SEP 0>1.0 OCT 0>1.0
UA IAH-GUA JUL 3>4
UA IAH-MTY JUN 8>9 JUL 8>9
UA IAH-SJD JUN 2>3
UA LAX-IPL APR 1.9>0.4
*UA LAX-SGU APR 0.9>0.2 MAY 0.9>0 JUN 0.8>0 JUL 0.9>0 AUG 0.8>0 SEP 0.9>0 OCT 0.9>0
UA ORD-BZN JUL 3>4 AUG 1.9>3
Everybody is just pounding on VX. Not surprising they are losing money.
*UA SFO-ANC JUN 0.8>1.7 JUL 1.0>2 AUG 0.8>2
Holy god. How many trips in this market now???
*UA SFO-AUS MAY 4>5 JUN 4>6 JUL 4>6 AUG 4>6 SEP 4>5 OCT 4>5
UA SFO-GEG MAY 2>1.3 JUN 2>0 JUL 2>0 AUG 2>0 SEP 2>0 OCT 2>0
UA SFO-MFR JUL 5>6 AUG 6>7
UA SFO-OTH JUN 3>2 JUL 3>2 AUG 3>2

US DCA-ILM APR 1.1>2.0 MAY 1.1>2 JUN 1.2>2 JUL 1.1>2 AUG 1.1>2 SEP 0.4>1.2 OCT 0.3>1.1
US DCA-OMA APR 1.7>0.9 MAY 1.7>0.9 JUN 1.7>0.8 JUL 1.7>0.9 AUG 1.7>0.8 SEP 1.7>0.9 OCT 1.7>0.9
US PHL-VCE OCT 0.8>1.0

*VX ANC-SFO JUN 0>0.7 JUL 0>0.8 AUG 0>0.9
*VX AUS-SFO JUN 0>1.0 JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>1.0 SEP 0>1.0 OCT 0>1.0
VX BOS-LAX JUN 2.0>3 JUL 2.0>3
VX BOS-SFO JUN 2.0>3 JUL 2.0>3
*VX FLL-SFO MAY 1.7>0.9 JUN 2.0>1.0 JUL 2>1.0 AUG 2>1.4
**VX MCO-SFO MAY 1.0>0.7 JUN 1.0>0.5 JUL 1.0>0.2 AUG 1.0>0 SEP 1.0>0 OCT 1.0>0
VX ORD-SFO MAY 2>3 JUN 2>3 JUL 2>3
PHL was so overserved with their inital schedule
*VX PHL-SFO MAY 1.9>1.0 JUN 2.0>1.0 JUL 2>1.0 AUG 2.0>1.0 SEP 2>1.0 OCT 2>1.0
VX SFO-PVR JUN 0.2>0.3 JUL 0.1>0.3

VX YOY comparison vs 2012
VX BOS-LAX JUL 3>2.0
VX BOS-SFO JUL 4>2.0 AUG 4>3 SEP 4>3
VX DCA-SFO JUL 0>1.0
VX EWR-LAX JUL 0>3 AUG 0>3 SEP 0>3
VX EWR-SFO JUL 0>3 AUG 0>3 SEP 0>3
VX IAD-SFO JUL 4>3 AUG 4>3 SEP 4>3
VX JFK-LAX JUL 6>5 AUG 6>5 SEP 6>5
VX JFK-SFO JUL 5>4 AUG 5>4 SEP 5>4
VX LAS-LAX JUL 0>3 AUG 0>3 SEP 0>4
VX LAS-SFO JUL 8>7 AUG 8>7 SEP 8>7
VX LAX-CUN AUG 0.8>0.6
VX LAX-ORD JUL 3>2 AUG 3>2 SEP 3>2
VX LAX-PHL JUL 3>2 AUG 3>1.9 SEP 3>1.9
VX LAX-SJC JUL 0>4 AUG 0>4 SEP 0>4
VX ORD-SFO JUL 3>2 AUG 3>2 SEP 3>2.0
VX PDX-SFO JUL 1.8>1.0 AUG 1.5>1.0
VX SFO-CUN JUL 0.4>0.1 AUG 0.4>0.2
VX SFO-PVR JUL 0.7>0.1 AUG 0.7>0.2 SEP 0.5>0.0

WN doing more interim schedule changes
WN FLL-HOU MAR 2>3
WN HOU-JAX MAY 1.0>1.8
WN HOU-PHX MAY 4>5

99 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6756 posts, RR: 17
Reply 1, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 9966 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
DL ATL-EWN JUN 3>4 JUL 3>4

Dear Delta,

Can you please add the following:

EWN-BWI 0>1
EWN-LGA 0>1
EWN-MCO 0>1

I don't think that's asking too much... EWN really needs more destinations that just to Atlanta.. it's so hard to get there without it taking 6 hours when it would only be a 50 minute flight or so..

Thanks,

Eastern North Carolina



Aiming High and going far..
User currently offlineAVLAirlineFreq From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 1027 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 9879 times:

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 1):
Dear Delta,

Can you please add the following:

EWN-BWI 0>1
EWN-LGA 0>1
EWN-MCO 0>1

Nothing personal, but why would DL add flights from EWN to two cities that aren't hubs for DL?


User currently offlineslcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3369 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 9885 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
DL SLC-RAP JUN 1.7>3 JUL 1.9>3

another short seasonal route probably a good move for Delta. Really cash in on this cities with low LCC competition when the people want to fly you get high fares

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
DL LAX-BOS JUN 0>0.7 JUL 0>1.0
DL LAX-GDL JUL 1.0>1.1 AUG 0.4>0.5 SEP 0>0.1 OCT 0>0.1


Looks seasonal and a very short season at that maybe?


User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3057 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 9775 times:

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 1):
I don't think that's asking too much... EWN really needs more destinations that just to Atlanta.

"It looks like a significant amount of daily service is also offered to between EWN and CLT.



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlineslcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3369 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 9773 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
F9 DEN-LGA JUN 4>1.8 JUL 4>1.9 AUG 4>1.8

I have said this for along time on here. This route is the opposite of a gold mine for Frontier or United or Delta. DEN-LGA maybe use to be high fare but that is the past. the times when united printed money on this route is far gone. Peak summer at that. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see Frontier leave LGA


User currently offlineredzeppelin From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 556 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 9698 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
UA SFO-GEG MAY 2>1.3 JUN 2>0 JUL 2>0 AUG 2>0 SEP 2>0 OCT 2>0

This is interesting. Does this mean that GEG will only be served from DEN now? Surely they didn't get scared off by DL adding GEG-LAX.

[Edited 2013-02-18 09:04:12]


Happiness is rediscovering a forgotten L-1011 in your flight log.
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7048 posts, RR: 13
Reply 7, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 9667 times:

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 1):
I don't think that's asking too much... EWN really needs more destinations that just to Atlanta.. it's so hard to get there without it taking 6 hours when it would only be a 50 minute flight or so..

Good luck

Quoting AVLAirlineFreq (Reply 2):
Nothing personal, but why would DL add flights from EWN to two cities that aren't hubs for DL?

Absent ERJ170 giving them $5 million, they wouldn't.

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 3):
Looks seasonal and a very short season at that maybe?

True. They've been messing with both markets for years.

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 5):
DEN-LGA maybe use to be high fare but that is the past. the times when united printed money on this route is far gone. Peak summer at that. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see Frontier leave LGA

I agree it sucks unlike DCA. A lot of LGA markets make no money...just like LAX.

Do we know what kind of slots F9 uses? If they can be sold or transferred then you are probably right, but I think they need something in the area. Not sure what other option there is. JFK-DEN has B6 already. TTN has a runway that is too short from what I hear. If the slots are attached to the route then they might stick with it.


User currently offlineyellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6055 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 9643 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
AA MIA-RTB JUL 0.1>0.3

What did they add? A Wed? RTB does have some O&D to MIA and this will help.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
Holy god. How many trips in this market now???
*UA SFO-AUS MAY 4>5 JUN 4>6 JUL 4>6 AUG 4>6 SEP 4>5 OCT 4>5

Is it me or is there a conscious effort by DL, UA, AS and WN to really squeeze VX now?



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlinephatfarmlines From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 1346 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 9632 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
B6 JFK-SDQ MAY 4>5 JUN 5>6 JUL 7>8 AUG 7>8 SEP 5>6 OCT 4>5

Crap...I don't think AA even had 8 JFK-SDQ flights during the summer ever.


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25013 posts, RR: 85
Reply 10, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 9636 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
Following is a comparison of F9's Summer schedule versus 2012
Looks like DE is down 27 rts or so...

Wow. Given the number of aircraft that have left the fleet, I thought it would be more than that.

I'm puzzled that the increases at CVG and MDT aren't there in the "changed" bit, or obscured, but I guess it's the ol' "low frequency filter" at work.  

mariner

[Edited 2013-02-18 09:20:55]


aeternum nauta
User currently offlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1378 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 9525 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 7):
If the slots are attached to the route then they might stick with it.

The only slots at LGA are normal slots. No slots at LGA can be sold, they can only be traded or leased. F9 could do SWF or ISP though at ISP I could see WN going after them in a heartbeat. I know SWF and ISP aren't exactly close to NYC but they aren't too far to consider.

[Edited 2013-02-18 09:21:45]


You will either love or hate the airline industry. If you love it, it will get in your blood and it will never leave.
User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5367 posts, RR: 12
Reply 12, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 9501 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*AS PDX-FAI JUN 0>0.7 JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>1.0
AS PDX-LAX JUL 5>6
Interesting. I remember when they had 3rts. Pressure on F9?
*AS SEA-DEN JUN 4>5 JUL 4>5 AUG 4>5
AS SEA-FAI JUL 4>3 AUG 4>3
AS SEA-SAN JUN 8>9 JUL 8>9 AUG 8>9

A couple of interesting things here. PDX-FAI started (although using no a/c time as it's a red-eye r/t) while SEA-FAI is cut back by 1. SEA-DEN and SEA-SAN must be performing very well, or else AS senses something is about to happen (with DL, more in the case of SAN rather than DEN...) Finally, PDX-LAX could be pre-emptive against DL or just equipment shuffling?

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*VX ANC-SFO JUN 0>0.7 JUL 0>0.8 AUG 0>0.9
*VX AUS-SFO JUN 0>1.0 JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>1.0 SEP 0>1.0 OCT 0>1.0
VX BOS-LAX JUN 2.0>3 JUL 2.0>3
VX BOS-SFO JUN 2.0>3 JUL 2.0>3
*VX FLL-SFO MAY 1.7>0.9 JUN 2.0>1.0 JUL 2>1.0 AUG 2>1.4
**VX MCO-SFO MAY 1.0>0.7 JUN 1.0>0.5 JUL 1.0>0.2 AUG 1.0>0 SEP 1.0>0 OCT 1.0>0
VX ORD-SFO MAY 2>3 JUN 2>3 JUL 2>3
PHL was so overserved with their inital schedule
*VX PHL-SFO MAY 1.9>1.0 JUN 2.0>1.0 JUL 2>1.0 AUG 2.0>1.0 SEP 2>1.0 OCT 2>1.0
VX SFO-PVR JUN 0.2>0.3 JUL 0.1>0.3

This sure helps (along with your y-o-y comparison) explain where some of the a/c for the new routes are coming from. I note that it appears SFO-MCO is gone at the end of summer?

bb


User currently offlineusairways85 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 3396 posts, RR: 7
Reply 13, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 9479 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
PHL was so overserved with their inital schedule
*VX PHL-SFO MAY 1.9>1.0 JUN 2.0>1.0 JUL 2>1.0 AUG 2.0>1.0 SEP 2>1.0 OCT 2>1.0

Not too bad, UA and US just dumped capacity on the route.
Before VX
PHL-SFO
UA 3 daily (2 daily during some of the winter)
US 4 daily (3 daily during some of the winter)

After VX (this past summer)
UA 4 daily
US 5-6 daily
VX 2-3 daily


User currently offlineAVENSAB727 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 913 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 9400 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
UA IAH-GUA JUL 3>4
UA IAH-MTY JUN 8>9 JUL 8>9
UA IAH-SJD JUN 2>3

Looks like UA is adding frequencies for the summer. IAH-SJD looks like it got a new frequency.



Always look on the bright side of Life!
User currently offlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6756 posts, RR: 17
Reply 15, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 9352 times:

Quoting AVLAirlineFreq (Reply 2):
Nothing personal, but why would DL add flights from EWN to two cities that aren't hubs for DL?

Well, LGA is a hub.. MCO is a large station.. and BWI would be the Washington metro region.. all pretty much able to generate their own traffic.. and as sole occupants on the route, DL could be able to price it to make it profitable.. but it's just a thought on my end that those routes are needed from EWN and DL seems like they could potentially do it with a CRJ each...

Quoting enilria (Reply 7):
Absent ERJ170 giving them $5 million, they wouldn't.

don't think anyone can say absolutely they wouldn't.. they haven't.. but they could.. anything is worth a shot, but I"m just asking to consider it.. 1 a day can't hurt trying and except LGA none are slot controlled.. just Aircraft dependent and I believe DL has an aircraft to spare for this.. but, again, just a thought..



Aiming High and going far..
User currently offlinePIEAvantiP180 From United States of America, joined Sep 2009, 531 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 9346 times:
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Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
Holy god. How many trips in this market now???
*UA SFO-AUS MAY 4>5 JUN 4>6 JUL 4>6 AUG 4>6 SEP 4>5 OCT 4>5
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*B6 AUS-SFO JUN 1.0>2 JUL 1.0>2 AUG 1.0>2
Probably also VX related

It seems to me that AA, AS, B6, DL, UA, US are all secretly cooperating and ganging up on VX. If looking at VX financials i think the sharks are smelling blood in the water and trying to go for the kill. Every route announcement by VX is immediately being followed up by one carrier or another with upgrades in aircraft and or frequency increases on the same routes. If this keeps up for to long i don't see VX being able to hold on for to much longer.


User currently offlineTdan From United States of America, joined Nov 2011, 410 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 9328 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*B6 AUS-SFO JUN 1.0>2 JUL 1.0>2 AUG 1.0>2
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*UA SFO-AUS MAY 4>5 JUN 4>6 JUL 4>6 AUG 4>6 SEP 4>5 OCT 4>5
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*UA SFO-ANC JUN 0.8>1.7 JUL 1.0>2 AUG 0.8>2
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*VX ANC-SFO JUN 0>0.7 JUL 0>0.8 AUG 0>0.9
*VX AUS-SFO JUN 0>1.0 JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>1.0 SEP 0>1.0 OCT 0>1.0

I'm sorry, but this is absolutely hilarious! You've got to love capitalism sometimes just for its hyper-competitive absurdity. The established carriers smell blood in the water. This kind of competitive response might finish VX for good if they can't figure out a way to generate above commodity-level fares.



We will ride this thunderbird, silver shadows on the earth, a thousand leagues away our land of birth... -Captain Bruce
User currently offlinebobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1648 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 9190 times:
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Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
Interesting. I remember when they had 3rts. Pressure on F9?
*AS SEA-DEN JUN 4>5 JUL 4>5 AUG 4>5

Not everything an airline does is a reaction to what a competitor is doing. Simply reacting is a recipe for losing money

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 5):
I have said this for along time on here. This route is the opposite of a gold mine for Frontier or United or Delta. DEN-LGA maybe use to be high fare but that is the past. the times when united printed money on this route is far gone. Peak summer at that. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see Frontier leave LGA

Have fares gone down a lot?

Quoting redzeppelin (Reply 6):
This is interesting. Does this mean that GEG will only be served from DEN now? Surely they didn't get scared off by DL adding GEG-LAX.

Of course they didnt. Probably better use of a plane somewhere else. But now theyve lost the ability to fly GEG pax west.


User currently offlineOA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5232 posts, RR: 25
Reply 19, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 9190 times:

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 5):

You have to keep in mind that CO is a strong year-round market, but particularly strong in winter when East Coasters flock to the area to ski. You're going to tend to get fewer people in summer. That's not to say it's making money, it may well be losing a ton, but this isn't necessarily an indication that the route is a goner.



Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25013 posts, RR: 85
Reply 20, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 9140 times:
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Quoting mariner (Reply 10):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
Following is a comparison of F9's Summer schedule versus 2012
Looks like DE is down 27 rts or so...

Wow. Given the number of aircraft that have left the fleet, I thought it would be more than that.

I guess the addition of EUG and FAT changes that number. Wow, again.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24893 posts, RR: 46
Reply 21, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 9099 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
AZ LAX-FCO OCT 0.8>0.5

AZ decided to make LAX seasonal again. Last flight October 27.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
DL LAX-GDL JUL 1.0>1.1 AUG 0.4>0.5 SEP 0>0.1 OCT 0>0.1

A bit of a joke on the 2nd busiest US-Mexico city pair.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineFoxBravo From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2993 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 9006 times:

Interesting, Seaborne is really stepping in to replace American Eagle out of SJU. I knew about EIS, VIJ and the USVI, but now DOM, FDF, PTP, etc. This gives further support to the rumors on another recent thread of a codeshare or more (e.g., "Eagle" marketing) with AA.


Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
User currently offlineAVLAirlineFreq From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 1027 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 8952 times:

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 15):
Quoting AVLAirlineFreq (Reply 2):
Nothing personal, but why would DL add flights from EWN to two cities that aren't hubs for DL?

Well, LGA is a hub.. MCO is a large station.. and BWI would be the Washington metro region.. all pretty much able to generate their own traffic.. and as sole occupants on the route, DL could be able to price it to make it profitable.. but it's just a thought on my end that those routes are needed from EWN and DL seems like they could potentially do it with a CRJ each...

Then you should be lobbying for US from DCA or UA from IAD. And to MCO, F9 (which had shown a willingness to try smaller markets out of MCO, like COU and SHO, although that experiment may be ending) or G4 (although G4 did briefly try ISO-SFB a couple of years ago).

DL is not going to add P2P service to and from EWN.


User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5367 posts, RR: 12
Reply 24, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 8936 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
AS SEA-SAN JUN 8>9 JUL 8>9 AUG 8>9

This is a nice increase over even last summer (by 1 daily r/t) but it's difficult to tell if it's a pre-emptive strike at possible DL intrusion into the market or just part of the SAN build-up that continues for AS (IMHO.) Either way, I like it!

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
AS PDX-LAX JUL 5>6

Again, this could be notice to DL or just summer (seasonal) traffic increases; PDX does seem to be experiencing solid growth these days. (I suppose it could be a bit of a nudge at VX also, or even a feeling that NK could be considering jumping in...) I did check and my earlier thought about a/c changes affecting capacity is NOT the case; AS is running all mainline on the route with a healthy increase between May and June of 1 daily r/t.

I'm enjoying monitoring AS's summer schedules as they gradually come together.

bb


25 MAH4546 : Don't think UA is scared off by Delta flying LAXGEG for a grand total of nine weeks.
26 redzeppelin : Of course not. I threw in the comment about Delta's new flight to emphasize the contrast of UA reducing service at GEG while others are adding flight
27 Joeljack : Looks like US is dropping the morning OMA-DCA flight. So this leaves F9 and US both flying about the same time flights around 4pm plus/minus OMA-DCA.
28 yellowtail : I dunno about secretly (as that would be illegal) but certainly they are all "thinking" the same thing.....Isn't B6 hiring 150-200 new pilots..maybe
29 PIEAvantiP180 : Just joking on the secret thing but as you said they all seem to be thinking the same way. Besides B6 picking up us some of the lost Trans con route
30 jetmatt777 : Obviously it's not money adding up, or they'd keep the frequency.
31 bobloblaw : DL's relationship has no bearing on how they respond to VX. B6 should not pick up any capacity dropped by VX.
32 kgaiflyer : A couple years ago, Nova Scotia did a huge blitz job in DC on YHZ as a destination. Quebec City needs to do pretty much the same thing for YQB -- lik
33 FSDan : Interesting. Is this the first time DL has tried this route?
34 cschleic : Or seasonal? PDX has a high leisure component, so summer is much busier.
35 n7371f : SEA-DEN in the summer is gang busters. Plus UA is a shell of itself on this route. Not sure why every route add is pressure on F9; would chalk this u
36 Post contains images PHX787 : Hmm i wonder if this is Air-Canada related or not. Kinda strange to see this one slipping. My thoughts exactly... when I request service on DL to CVG
37 n7371f : I fly this about a dozen times a year...and I'm shocked! I have no idead what UA is doing with GEG but then I've wondered for 10 years. 10 years ago
38 Post contains images mariner : Frontier is going up to 5 x daily DEN-SEA for the summer. Perhaps I could call that call it pressure on Alaska just to even things up. mariner
39 enilria : Yup. Disturbing. Everyone bemoans VX's losses, but this type of behavior hoping to drive them out of business is why. Always taking the optimistic ap
40 Post contains images commavia : Interesting ... I agree - MIA-RTB seems to be doing well (as could be expected). Indeed, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see a Sa 738 DFW-RTB in th
41 mariner : It works well for me. It isn't listed as a separate add - which, given what you said last week about Delta's response ("pissed") seems odd to me. I s
42 PHX787 : It was posted last thread too.
43 mariner : I checked last week's thread before I posted here. I don't see the additional frequency DEN-CVG: F9 CLE-CUN MAY 0.3>0.1 F9 COU-MCO APR 0.4>0.3
44 slcdeltarumd11 : definitely in the whole nyc market to denver. Southwest lowerered prices out of EWR alot from the united monopoly they were running and incredible la
45 mariner : The way it has worked for Frontier so far - in almost all of the restructure - is that less capacity has usually improved yields. And with oil close
46 Post contains images airliner371 : I'm sorry but you are wrong, they probably leased the slots but there is no selling slots, only leasing and trading. Here is some helpful information
47 Post contains links FL787 : While that is normally true, it was not in the case of the slot swap between DL/US: "In 2009, because airlines are prohibited from selling or purchas
48 kgaiflyer : But in July and August? This is a snowbird route.
49 airliner371 : Yes, he made it sound like he was talking about something other then the slot swap though.
50 xpfg : Wow, that's interesting. Has this been announced anywhere?
51 dbo861 : Maybe we'll see some more short haul destinations on VX? With all of the reductions there should still be some slack in the fleet after the recent ad
52 legacyins : I did a dummy booking on their site for SFO-MCO in October and was routed through LAX. Maybe they will try for MIA out of SFO.
53 Post contains images SANFan : A dropped route is generally not "announced" by anyone (except on A.net.) VX has been up-front about announcing closed stations (YYZ and SNA) but as
54 yellowtail : Depending on the day of week and timings...this may be aimed at some c. American traffic....like RTB.... Folks from Calgary love going to places like
55 STT757 : Nice addition, there was a thread discussing ANC-NYC not that long ago.
56 PSU.DTW.SCE : YYC is the gateway to the Banff / Lake Louise region, which is a huge summer travel destination for US tourists going to the Canadian Rockies.
57 yellowtail : I have tried looking for the flight but can't find it...does anyone know the schedule?
58 FoxBravo : Indeed. See my reply #22.
59 FSDan : From DL's electronic timetable (which, of course, is very much subject to change this far out): DL 1419 Dep. ATL 9:50a Arr. YYC 12:22p 738 Saturday o
60 jfklganyc : Great table. Thank you!
61 PSU.DTW.SCE : DL will be operating a domestic 763 on ATL-DEN this summer. The schedule currently shows 1-738, 3-M90, 3-757, 1-763
62 kgaiflyer : I get it. This is like the DL ATL-BIL route and the UA EWR-BZN route.
63 Post contains images enilria : OAG Changes 2/8/2012: AC/B6/DL/FL/UA F9 COS-PHX APR 0.3>0.1 *F9 DEN-CVG JUN 0>0.8 *F9 DEN-DAY MAY 0.9>0.5 JUN 0.8>0 Thanks for wasting my
64 Post contains images point2point : Kool..... DEN gets a DL wide body for the summer. Since it's a domestic, does anyone know where this bird continues to after it reaches ATL? I imagin
65 Post contains images MaverickM11 : Looks like they picked the wrong day to be in the airline industry! The fares are atrocious--if fares went up to reasonable levels I wonder how small
66 bobloblaw : Airlines go out of business because of what they do to themselves, not what competitors do to them. It's tough to find many examples of a good busine
67 C172Akula : I'm excited to see some more DL metal into YYC. I wonder if there is the potential for this route to operate in the winter ski season too? Lots of gr
68 PSU.DTW.SCE : On to another dometic market - SEA, SFO, SLC, LAX most likely. I highly doubt DL will operate ATL-YYC in the winter. Right now this is Sat-only servi
69 mariner : I think we're talking about different things. There is a change from that and what you now show. I assume that was the original announcement of CVG a
70 enilria : I guess...I like competition and not losing some of the few remaining airlines. Well, it's sort of an accumulation of things. 9/11 sent a bunch of ai
71 AVLAirlineFreq : Yes, exactly, although I believe DL flies ATL-BZN, not ATL-BIL.
72 mariner : Complaining? No. Puzzled? Yes. And pointing out the oddities. mariner[Edited 2013-02-19 09:57:25]
73 GentFromAlaska : Aye, I think they call it Jasper National Park which is some most beautiful real estate and geography I've enjoyed driving through in North America.
74 BoeingGuy : There are four national parks in that area and several provincial parks. Jasper is the farthest north, in which YEG is actually a bit closer. I think
75 enilria : It's not an oddity. I'm telling you that domestic changes that small aren't shown. It's exactly the way it is supposed to work and I also explained w
76 mariner : I understand and accept the "low frequency filter." It just seems - to me - erratic because it picks up the drops but seems to miss some of the adds
77 enilria : The reason I comment more on the drops is because the adds are announced in press releases and the drops are rarely announced. For example...
78 kgaiflyer : ATL-BIL flew a couple of years ago with a CR-9. At the time, G4 was new to Billings. But even as a competitor to G4, the route made little long-term
79 PSU.DTW.SCE : ATL-BIL makes zero sense now with the MSP and SLC service.
80 mariner : That still doesn't quite explain how some of the adds are missing. Look, it's your thread, you do whatever you want to do. If you don't want oddities
81 AVLAirlineFreq : Wow, that's a long route on an RJ, even a CR9.
82 Post contains images C172Akula : You are correct, YYC is closest to Banff national park. Driving time is only about 1-1/2 hours to the park gate from the airport. Absolutely beautifu
83 yellowtail : Thanks!!! But that won't work for RTB or BZE without an overnight....Arrrrrr!
84 kgaiflyer : Well, last Sunday I did ELP-IAH-IAD (1854 sm) in an E145. Many of the upscale IAH-IAD folks nearly had a heart attack when the saw the plane. Btw, la
85 jetbluefan1 : There are some similarities, such as the focus on service, and operating as an LCC with a home base at an underutilized/overpriced airport in a US me
86 bobloblaw : B6 was very different from VX in their business plan. The NE to Florida is a very large price sensitive market with seemingly no bottom. Transcons ar
87 enilria : I've explained it. I told you what the repercussions would be of changing it to do what you want it to do and they are not acceptable. Continually qu
88 MasseyBrown : B6 was much more successful than VX at setting itself apart from the competition as well as generating free publicity and 'buzz'. Doing that in NYC h
89 Post contains images mariner : If you are content that the information you post (and thus the commentary based on it) may be inaccurate then, as I say, this is not a thread for me.
90 Post contains links EricR : Out of all the airlines, F9 probably is the most difficult to track because their schizophrenic approach to adding and discontinuing routes. USA Toda
91 airliner371 : What is inaccurate, if you are talking about the .1 frequencies missing I think you are asking for a bit much.
92 Post contains images mariner : Indeed. But given Wall Street's reaction to the recently revised guidance for Frontier, it may only be a problem for airline folk. The money men are
93 Flytravel : I'd be curious if B6 strengthens their FLL focus battling it with WN and other carriers on some fronts, with PHL-FLL, PIT-FLL, BWI-FLL, ORD-FLL, CLT-
94 FlyASAGuy2005 : Wow! When's the last time Denver has scheduled widebody sevice on Delta? It's been quite a while. So, how are the 76Q stations shaping up this summer
95 PSU.DTW.SCE : DTW: (6) SEA-2, SFO-1, LAX-3 MSP: (6) SEA-2, SFO-1, LAX-1, LAS-1, ANC-1 ATL: (11) SEA-1, SFO-3, LAX-2, SAN-1, SLC-3, DEN-1, SLC: (3) ATL-3 DTW, MSP,
96 MAH4546 : Florida-Northeast is not highly profitable. AA is, by far, the dominating airline between the U.S. and Caribbean. It is very impressive that JetBlue
97 slcdeltarumd11 : I think SLC is seeing 3 to ATL this summer.
98 FSDan : Don't forget SLC-HNL x1! It looks like ATL-SLC is now 1 daily 763 as of today's electronic timetable update. MSP-ANC is great to see, and starts in J
99 Post contains links EricR : Quoting jetbluefan1 (Reply 85): and dominates the highly profitable Northeast-Florida/Caribbean market. Florida-Northeast is not highly profitable..
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