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OAG Changes 2/22/2013: B6/DL/UA/VX/WN  
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 6838 posts, RR: 14
Posted (1 year 2 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 9979 times:

INSTRUCTIONS

WHAT IS THIS REPORT?
This compares what is for sale THIS WEEK for the stated period versus what was for sale LAST WEEK...It does NOT compare to last year or now (UNLESS OTHERWISE STATED).

HOW DO I READ IT?
XXX-YYY DEC 4>5 JAN 4>5 ; means that the listed airline changed the frequency between the two airports to add from 4 to 5 roundtrips in December and January. No other months were changed. I only list one direction, although it is possible the listed change is only one way. It is too difficult to average the two directions. I assume the change is roundtrip and that is most often the case.

HOW ARE THE DAILY DEPARTURES CALCULATED?
This report uses total operations for the month listed, divided over the days in the month.

WHAT ARE THE FRACTIONAL FLIGHTS?
Non-daily operations create fractional weekly service. In most cases flights are rounded, but in the case of international service or markets with low frequency, fractions are shown. If a flight operated 5 days out of 7, it would show 0.8 flights.

WHY ARE THERE WEIRD FREQUENCIES IN FAR AWAY MONTHS FOR LCCs?
Most airlines publish schedules 11 months in advance. This report covers the next 9 months. That avoids seeing schedules as they are loaded. Several LCCs load their schedules less than 9 months into the future. Their schedules may also end mid-month. If B6 loads their schedule until Jan15, all flights in Janaury will show half frequency because of the way the report is created.

WHY IS A WHOLE AIRLINE'S SCHEDULE SHOWN AS CHANGING FOR A FUTURE MONTH?
Similarly to the previous question, some airlines load their schedule from nothing inside the 9 month window of this report. When their schedule is extended it will show as new service because there was no previous schedule to compare to. In some instances I will show a more valid comparison against another period.

THOSE FLIGHTS AREN'T DELTA, THEY ARE PINNACLE
This report only shows the marketing code. It is too complicated to show all the operators.

THE FREQUENCIES MAY HAVE CHANGED AS YOU SHOW, BUT THE SEATS DIDNT CHANGE BECAUSE OF EQUIPMENT SWAPS
That is a natural weakness of a frequency based report, but it provides something to discuss below.

THE FREQUENCY DOESN'T SHOW A CHANGE, E.G. 4>4
This happens as a result of rounding. There is a change in service that is large enough to be listed, but through rounding it does not appear.

I marked some of the ones I thought were interesting with an "*".

9K STT-SJU APR 9>10

AA DFW-YVR JUN 2>3 JUL 2>3
AA MIA-RTB JUL 0.1>0.3

AC CVG-YYZ APR 1.7>1.4
AC DEN-YYZ APR 2>1.9
AC MCO-YYZ OCT 1.7>3
AC MKE-YYZ APR 1.7>1.4
AC MSP-YYZ APR 4>3
AC STL-YYZ APR 1.7>1.6

AM JFK-MEX APR 5>4
AM LAS-MEX APR 3>1.4 MAY 3>2
AM LAX-GDL APR 1.1>1.3
AM ORD-MEX APR 1.8>3
AM SMF-GDL APR 0.5>0.7

*AS PDX-FAI JUN 0>0.7 JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>1.0
AS PDX-LAX JUL 5>6
Interesting. I remember when they had 3rts. Pressure on F9?
*AS SEA-DEN JUN 4>5 JUL 4>5 AUG 4>5
AS SEA-FAI JUL 4>3 AUG 4>3
AS SEA-SAN JUN 8>9 JUL 8>9 AUG 8>9

AZ LAX-FCO OCT 0.8>0.5
AZ MIA-FCO SEP 1.0>0.9

VX response
*B6 AUS-SFO JUN 1.0>2 JUL 1.0>2 AUG 1.0>2
Probably also VX related
*B6 FLL-SFO JUN 1.0>2 JUL 1.0>2 AUG 1.0>2 SEP 1.0>2 OCT 0.8>1.7
B6 JFK-BQN APR 2>1.3 MAY 2>1.1
B6 JFK-SDQ MAY 4>5 JUN 5>6 JUL 7>8 AUG 7>8 SEP 5>6 OCT 4>5
B6 JFK-STI MAY 5>6 JUN 6>7 JUL 7>8 AUG 7>8 SEP 6>7 OCT 5>6

BB SJU-DOM APR 0>1.0 MAY 0>1.0 JUN 0>1.0 JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>1.0 SEP 0>1.0 OCT 0>1.0
BB SJU-EIS APR 8>6 MAY 8>6 JUN 8>6 JUL 8>6 AUG 8>6 SEP 0>6 OCT 0>6
BB SJU-FDF APR 0>0.5 MAY 0>0.6 JUN 0>0.6 JUL 0>0.5 AUG 0>0.6 SEP 0>0.6 OCT 0>0.5
BB SJU-PTP APR 0>0.6 MAY 0>0.5 JUN 0>0.6 JUL 0>0.6 AUG 0>0.6 SEP 0>0.6 OCT 0>0.6
BB SJU-STT APR 2>5 MAY 2>5 JUN 2>5 JUL 2>5 AUG 2>5 SEP 0>5 OCT 0>5
BB SJU-STX APR 5>3 MAY 5>3 JUN 5>4 JUL 5>4 AUG 5>4 SEP 0>4 OCT 0>4
BB SJU-VIJ SEP 0>1.0 OCT 0>1.0
BB SJU-VQS APR 0.4>1.3 MAY 0.5>1.5 JUN 0.4>1.4 JUL 0.4>1.4 AUG 0.5>1.5 SEP 0>1.0 OCT 0>1.0
BB STT-SJU APR 3>5 MAY 3>5 JUN 3>5 JUL 3>5 AUG 3>5 SEP 0>5 OCT 0>5
BB STT-STX APR 1.1>8 MAY 1.0>7 JUN 0>7 JUL 0>7 AUG 0>7 SEP 0>5 OCT 0>5
BB STX-SJU APR 5>4 MAY 5>4 SEP 0>5 OCT 0>5
BB STX-VQS APR 0>1.0 MAY 0>1.0 JUN 0>1.0 JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>1.0 SEP 0>1.0 OCT 0>1.0
BB VQS-SJU APR 0>1.0 MAY 0>1.0 JUN 0>1.0 JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>1.0 SEP 0>1.0 OCT 0>1.0

DL ATL-DEN JUL 9>8
DL ATL-EVV JUN 4>5 JUL 4>5
DL ATL-EWN JUN 3>4 JUL 3>4
DL ATL-ILM JUN 6>7 JUL 6>7
DL ATL-JAN JUN 8>9 JUL 8>9
DL ATL-LAS JUN 8>7 JUL 8>7
DL ATL-MGM APR 10>9 JUL 10>9
DL ATL-OAJ JUN 5>6 JUL 5>6
DL ATL-TLH JUN 9>11 JUL 9>11 AUG 8>10 SEP 8>9 OCT 8>9
DL ATL-TRI JUL 7>8
DL ATL-YYC JUL 0>0.1 AUG 0>0.2
DL CVG-BWI JUL 4>3 AUG 4>3 SEP 4>3 OCT 4>3
DL CVG-MDT JUN 1.4>0.8 JUL 1.7>0.8 AUG 1.7>0.8
DL CVG-MSN JUN 1.7>1.1 JUL 1.7>0.8
DL CVG-YYZ JUN 3>1.8 JUL 3>1.5 AUG 3>1.5 SEP 3>1.6 OCT 3>1.7
DL DTW-ATL JUN 10>11 JUL 10>11
DL DTW-AVP JUN 4>3 JUL 4>3
DL DTW-EVV JUL 5>4
DL DTW-PIT JUN 6>7 JUL 6>7
DL DTW-PVD JUN 7>8 JUL 7>8
DL DTW-RSW JUL 3>2.0
DL FNT-MSP JUN 3>1.8 JUL 3>1.8
DL JFK-BOS JUN 5>6 JUL 5>6 AUG 5>6
DL JFK-DTW JUN 3>4 JUL 3>4 AUG 3>4
DL JFK-PHX JUN 1.8>1.2 JUL 1.8>1.0
DL JFK-YYZ APR 1.9>2
DL JFK-ZRH JUN 1.0>0.5
DL LAN-MSP JUN 1.9>3 JUL 1.8>3
*DL LAX-ANC JUN 0>0.1 JUL 0>0.3 AUG 0>0.3
*DL LAX-BOS JUN 0>0.7 JUL 0>1.0
DL LAX-GDL JUL 1.0>1.1 AUG 0.4>0.5 SEP 0>0.1 OCT 0>0.1
*DL LAX-GEG JUL 0>1.0
*DL LAX-PVR JUL 0.1>1.0 AUG 0.1>1.0 SEP 0>1.0 OCT 0>1.0
DL LGA-BGR MAY 4>5 JUN 4>5 JUL 4>5 SEP 4>5 OCT 4>5
DL LGA-CHS MAY 5>4 JUN 5>4 JUL 5>4
DL MEM-SEA JUL 0>0.9
DL MSP-SDF JUN 3>4 JUL 4>5
DL MSP-YWG JUN 5>6 JUL 5>6 AUG 5>6
DL SFO-HNL JUN 1.0>0.9 JUL 1.1>1.0
DL SLC-RAP JUN 1.7>3 JUL 1.9>3

F9 COU-MCO MAY 0.5>0.1
F9 GSO-MCO MAY 0.3>0.1

Following is a comparison of F9's Summer schedule versus 2012
Looks like DE is down 27 rts or so...
F9 BMI-MCO JUL 0.4>0.3 AUG 0.5>0.1
F9 COS-LAX JUN 0.9>0 JUL 0.8>0 AUG 0.9>0
F9 COS-PHX JUN 1.0>0 JUL 1.0>0 AUG 1.0>0
F9 DCA-OMA JUN 1.8>1.0 JUL 1.9>1.0 AUG 1.9>1.0
F9 DEN-ATL JUN 3>0.9 JUL 3>1.0 AUG 3>1.0
F9 DEN-BLI JUN 1.0>0.6 JUL 1.0>0.6 AUG 1.0>0.6
F9 DEN-BNA JUN 3>1.7 JUL 3>1.9
F9 DEN-BZN JUN 2>1.0 JUL 2>1.0 AUG 2>1.3
F9 DEN-COS JUN 4>0 JUL 4>0 AUG 4>0
F9 DEN-CVG JUN 0>1.0 JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>1.0
F9 DEN-CZM JUN 0>0.2 JUL 0>0.1
F9 DEN-DAY JUN 2>0 JUL 2>0 AUG 2>0
F9 DEN-DFW JUN 7>5 JUL 7>5 AUG 6>5
F9 DEN-DRO JUN 2>1.0 JUL 2>1.0 AUG 2>1.0
F9 DEN-DSM JUN 2>1.0 JUL 2>1.0 AUG 2>1.3
F9 DEN-DTW JUN 3>1.0 JUL 3>1.0 AUG 3>1.3
F9 DEN-FLL JUN 1.4>1.0 JUL 1.4>1.0
F9 DEN-GEG JUN 3>1.0 JUL 3>1.3 AUG 3>1.6
F9 DEN-IAH JUN 0>3 JUL 1.3>3
F9 DEN-LAS JUN 7>5 JUL 7>5 AUG 7>6
F9 DEN-LAX JUN 5>4 JUL 5>4 AUG 5>4
F9 DEN-LGA JUN 4>1.8 JUL 4>1.9 AUG 4>1.8
F9 DEN-LIT JUN 1.0>0.6 JUL 1.0>0.6 AUG 1.0>0.6
F9 DEN-MDW JUN 5>3 JUL 5>4 AUG 5>3
F9 DEN-MSP JUN 5>4 JUL 5>4 AUG 5>4
F9 DEN-MSY AUG 0.6>0.4
F9 DEN-OKC JUL 3>2
F9 DEN-OMA JUN 4>3 JUL 4>3 AUG 4>3
F9 DEN-PHF JUN 1.0>0.6 JUL 1.0>0.6 AUG 1.0>0.5
F9 DEN-SBA JUN 1.6>0.8 JUL 1.5>0.9 AUG 1.3>0.9
F9 DEN-SEA JUN 6>5 JUL 6>5 AUG 6>5
F9 DEN-TPA AUG 0.6>0.4
F9 DEN-TYS JUN 0.6>0.4
F9 MCI-DCA JUN 1.8>1.0 JUL 2.0>1.0 AUG 2>1.0
F9 MCI-DEN JUN 5>4
F9 MCO-MDT JUL 0.6>0.4 AUG 0.6>0.3
F9 MDW-TTN JUN 0>0.8 JUL 0>0.9 AUG 0>0.8
F9 MKE-DEN JUN 4>3 JUL 4>3 AUG 4>3
F9 ORD-MBJ JUN 0>0.2 JUL 0.3>0.1
F9 ORD-PUJ JUN 0>0.4 JUL 0.2>0.5
F9 RDU-TTN JUN 0>0.8 JUL 0>0.9 AUG 0>0.8
F9 RFD-CUN JUN 0>0.2
F9 STL-HUX JUN 0>0.1 JUL 0>0.1
F9 STL-MBJ JUN 0>0.3

HA HNL-KOA MAR 18>19 APR 19>20 MAY 19>20
HA HNL-OGG MAR 26>25 APR 26>25 MAY 26>25
*HA OAK-HNL JUN 0.5>0.8 JUL 0.6>1.0 AUG 0.6>1.0 SEP 0.6>1.0
HA OGG-KOA APR 3>2 MAY 3>2

JJ JFK-GRU APR 2>1.1 MAY 2>1.0 JUN 2>1.0 JUL 2>1.0 AUG 2>1.0 SEP 2>1.0 OCT 2>1.0

JQ HNL-SYD OCT 0.2>0.8

LA JFK-LIM MAR 1.6>1.3
LA MHC-PMC JUL 0.1>0.5 OCT 0>0.4
*LA MIA-BOG MAR 0>1.0 APR 0>1.0 MAY 0>1.0 JUN 0>1.0 JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>1.0 SEP 0>1.0 OCT 0>1.0
LA SFO-LIM APR 1.1>0.6 MAY 1.2>0.6 JUN 1.1>0.6 JUL 1.1>0.5 AUG 1.2>0.6 SEP 1.1>0.6

P1 SJU-PUJ JUN 0.0>0.2

UA CLE-CMH JUL 4>3 AUG 4>3
UA CLE-MDT JUL 3>1.7
UA CLE-MHT JUL 1.7>3 AUG 1.6>3
UA DEN-CLE JUL 4>5 AUG 4>5
UA DEN-CVG JUN 1.0>1.7
UA DEN-PHX JUL 5>4
*UA DEN-SGU JUN 0>0.8 JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>1.0 SEP 0>1.0 OCT 0>1.0
UA DEN-YEG JUL 2>3
*UA EWR-ANC JUL 0>0.1 AUG 0>0.2
UA EWR-YYZ JUN 9>8
UA IAD-ALB JUL 3>4 AUG 3>4
UA IAD-CAE JUL 4>3 AUG 4>3
UA IAD-CLE JUL 5>6 AUG 5>6
UA IAD-PWM JUL 2>3 AUG 2>3
*UA IAD-YQB AUG 0>0.2 SEP 0>1.0 OCT 0>1.0
UA IAH-GUA JUL 3>4
UA IAH-MTY JUN 8>9 JUL 8>9
UA IAH-SJD JUN 2>3
UA LAX-IPL APR 1.9>0.4
*UA LAX-SGU APR 0.9>0.2 MAY 0.9>0 JUN 0.8>0 JUL 0.9>0 AUG 0.8>0 SEP 0.9>0 OCT 0.9>0
UA ORD-BZN JUL 3>4 AUG 1.9>3
Everybody is just pounding on VX. Not surprising they are losing money.
*UA SFO-ANC JUN 0.8>1.7 JUL 1.0>2 AUG 0.8>2
Holy god. How many trips in this market now???
*UA SFO-AUS MAY 4>5 JUN 4>6 JUL 4>6 AUG 4>6 SEP 4>5 OCT 4>5
UA SFO-GEG MAY 2>1.3 JUN 2>0 JUL 2>0 AUG 2>0 SEP 2>0 OCT 2>0
UA SFO-MFR JUL 5>6 AUG 6>7
UA SFO-OTH JUN 3>2 JUL 3>2 AUG 3>2

US DCA-ILM APR 1.1>2.0 MAY 1.1>2 JUN 1.2>2 JUL 1.1>2 AUG 1.1>2 SEP 0.4>1.2 OCT 0.3>1.1
US DCA-OMA APR 1.7>0.9 MAY 1.7>0.9 JUN 1.7>0.8 JUL 1.7>0.9 AUG 1.7>0.8 SEP 1.7>0.9 OCT 1.7>0.9
US PHL-VCE OCT 0.8>1.0

*VX ANC-SFO JUN 0>0.7 JUL 0>0.8 AUG 0>0.9
*VX AUS-SFO JUN 0>1.0 JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>1.0 SEP 0>1.0 OCT 0>1.0
VX BOS-LAX JUN 2.0>3 JUL 2.0>3
VX BOS-SFO JUN 2.0>3 JUL 2.0>3
*VX FLL-SFO MAY 1.7>0.9 JUN 2.0>1.0 JUL 2>1.0 AUG 2>1.4
**VX MCO-SFO MAY 1.0>0.7 JUN 1.0>0.5 JUL 1.0>0.2 AUG 1.0>0 SEP 1.0>0 OCT 1.0>0
VX ORD-SFO MAY 2>3 JUN 2>3 JUL 2>3
PHL was so overserved with their inital schedule
*VX PHL-SFO MAY 1.9>1.0 JUN 2.0>1.0 JUL 2>1.0 AUG 2.0>1.0 SEP 2>1.0 OCT 2>1.0
VX SFO-PVR JUN 0.2>0.3 JUL 0.1>0.3

VX YOY comparison vs 2012
VX BOS-LAX JUL 3>2.0
VX BOS-SFO JUL 4>2.0 AUG 4>3 SEP 4>3
VX DCA-SFO JUL 0>1.0
VX EWR-LAX JUL 0>3 AUG 0>3 SEP 0>3
VX EWR-SFO JUL 0>3 AUG 0>3 SEP 0>3
VX IAD-SFO JUL 4>3 AUG 4>3 SEP 4>3
VX JFK-LAX JUL 6>5 AUG 6>5 SEP 6>5
VX JFK-SFO JUL 5>4 AUG 5>4 SEP 5>4
VX LAS-LAX JUL 0>3 AUG 0>3 SEP 0>4
VX LAS-SFO JUL 8>7 AUG 8>7 SEP 8>7
VX LAX-CUN AUG 0.8>0.6
VX LAX-ORD JUL 3>2 AUG 3>2 SEP 3>2
VX LAX-PHL JUL 3>2 AUG 3>1.9 SEP 3>1.9
VX LAX-SJC JUL 0>4 AUG 0>4 SEP 0>4
VX ORD-SFO JUL 3>2 AUG 3>2 SEP 3>2.0
VX PDX-SFO JUL 1.8>1.0 AUG 1.5>1.0
VX SFO-CUN JUL 0.4>0.1 AUG 0.4>0.2
VX SFO-PVR JUL 0.7>0.1 AUG 0.7>0.2 SEP 0.5>0.0

WN doing more interim schedule changes
WN FLL-HOU MAR 2>3
WN HOU-JAX MAY 1.0>1.8
WN HOU-PHX MAY 4>5

99 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently onlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6729 posts, RR: 18
Reply 1, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 9858 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
DL ATL-EWN JUN 3>4 JUL 3>4

Dear Delta,

Can you please add the following:

EWN-BWI 0>1
EWN-LGA 0>1
EWN-MCO 0>1

I don't think that's asking too much... EWN really needs more destinations that just to Atlanta.. it's so hard to get there without it taking 6 hours when it would only be a 50 minute flight or so..

Thanks,

Eastern North Carolina



Aiming High and going far..
User currently offlineAVLAirlineFreq From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 970 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 9771 times:

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 1):
Dear Delta,

Can you please add the following:

EWN-BWI 0>1
EWN-LGA 0>1
EWN-MCO 0>1

Nothing personal, but why would DL add flights from EWN to two cities that aren't hubs for DL?


User currently offlineslcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3106 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 9777 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
DL SLC-RAP JUN 1.7>3 JUL 1.9>3

another short seasonal route probably a good move for Delta. Really cash in on this cities with low LCC competition when the people want to fly you get high fares

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
DL LAX-BOS JUN 0>0.7 JUL 0>1.0
DL LAX-GDL JUL 1.0>1.1 AUG 0.4>0.5 SEP 0>0.1 OCT 0>0.1


Looks seasonal and a very short season at that maybe?


User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2926 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day ago) and read 9667 times:

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 1):
I don't think that's asking too much... EWN really needs more destinations that just to Atlanta.

"It looks like a significant amount of daily service is also offered to between EWN and CLT.



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlineslcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3106 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day ago) and read 9665 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
F9 DEN-LGA JUN 4>1.8 JUL 4>1.9 AUG 4>1.8

I have said this for along time on here. This route is the opposite of a gold mine for Frontier or United or Delta. DEN-LGA maybe use to be high fare but that is the past. the times when united printed money on this route is far gone. Peak summer at that. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see Frontier leave LGA


User currently offlineredzeppelin From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 499 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day ago) and read 9590 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
UA SFO-GEG MAY 2>1.3 JUN 2>0 JUL 2>0 AUG 2>0 SEP 2>0 OCT 2>0

This is interesting. Does this mean that GEG will only be served from DEN now? Surely they didn't get scared off by DL adding GEG-LAX.

[Edited 2013-02-18 09:04:12]


Happiness is rediscovering a forgotten L-1011 in your flight log.
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 6838 posts, RR: 14
Reply 7, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day ago) and read 9559 times:

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 1):
I don't think that's asking too much... EWN really needs more destinations that just to Atlanta.. it's so hard to get there without it taking 6 hours when it would only be a 50 minute flight or so..

Good luck

Quoting AVLAirlineFreq (Reply 2):
Nothing personal, but why would DL add flights from EWN to two cities that aren't hubs for DL?

Absent ERJ170 giving them $5 million, they wouldn't.

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 3):
Looks seasonal and a very short season at that maybe?

True. They've been messing with both markets for years.

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 5):
DEN-LGA maybe use to be high fare but that is the past. the times when united printed money on this route is far gone. Peak summer at that. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see Frontier leave LGA

I agree it sucks unlike DCA. A lot of LGA markets make no money...just like LAX.

Do we know what kind of slots F9 uses? If they can be sold or transferred then you are probably right, but I think they need something in the area. Not sure what other option there is. JFK-DEN has B6 already. TTN has a runway that is too short from what I hear. If the slots are attached to the route then they might stick with it.


User currently offlineyellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 5886 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day ago) and read 9535 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
AA MIA-RTB JUL 0.1>0.3

What did they add? A Wed? RTB does have some O&D to MIA and this will help.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
Holy god. How many trips in this market now???
*UA SFO-AUS MAY 4>5 JUN 4>6 JUL 4>6 AUG 4>6 SEP 4>5 OCT 4>5

Is it me or is there a conscious effort by DL, UA, AS and WN to really squeeze VX now?



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlinephatfarmlines From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 1343 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day ago) and read 9524 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
B6 JFK-SDQ MAY 4>5 JUN 5>6 JUL 7>8 AUG 7>8 SEP 5>6 OCT 4>5

Crap...I don't think AA even had 8 JFK-SDQ flights during the summer ever.


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24641 posts, RR: 86
Reply 10, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day ago) and read 9528 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
Following is a comparison of F9's Summer schedule versus 2012
Looks like DE is down 27 rts or so...

Wow. Given the number of aircraft that have left the fleet, I thought it would be more than that.

I'm puzzled that the increases at CVG and MDT aren't there in the "changed" bit, or obscured, but I guess it's the ol' "low frequency filter" at work.  

mariner

[Edited 2013-02-18 09:20:55]


aeternum nauta
User currently offlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1280 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day ago) and read 9417 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 7):
If the slots are attached to the route then they might stick with it.

The only slots at LGA are normal slots. No slots at LGA can be sold, they can only be traded or leased. F9 could do SWF or ISP though at ISP I could see WN going after them in a heartbeat. I know SWF and ISP aren't exactly close to NYC but they aren't too far to consider.

[Edited 2013-02-18 09:21:45]


You will either love or hate the airline industry. If you love it, it will get in your blood and it will never leave.
User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5229 posts, RR: 14
Reply 12, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day ago) and read 9393 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*AS PDX-FAI JUN 0>0.7 JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>1.0
AS PDX-LAX JUL 5>6
Interesting. I remember when they had 3rts. Pressure on F9?
*AS SEA-DEN JUN 4>5 JUL 4>5 AUG 4>5
AS SEA-FAI JUL 4>3 AUG 4>3
AS SEA-SAN JUN 8>9 JUL 8>9 AUG 8>9

A couple of interesting things here. PDX-FAI started (although using no a/c time as it's a red-eye r/t) while SEA-FAI is cut back by 1. SEA-DEN and SEA-SAN must be performing very well, or else AS senses something is about to happen (with DL, more in the case of SAN rather than DEN...) Finally, PDX-LAX could be pre-emptive against DL or just equipment shuffling?

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*VX ANC-SFO JUN 0>0.7 JUL 0>0.8 AUG 0>0.9
*VX AUS-SFO JUN 0>1.0 JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>1.0 SEP 0>1.0 OCT 0>1.0
VX BOS-LAX JUN 2.0>3 JUL 2.0>3
VX BOS-SFO JUN 2.0>3 JUL 2.0>3
*VX FLL-SFO MAY 1.7>0.9 JUN 2.0>1.0 JUL 2>1.0 AUG 2>1.4
**VX MCO-SFO MAY 1.0>0.7 JUN 1.0>0.5 JUL 1.0>0.2 AUG 1.0>0 SEP 1.0>0 OCT 1.0>0
VX ORD-SFO MAY 2>3 JUN 2>3 JUL 2>3
PHL was so overserved with their inital schedule
*VX PHL-SFO MAY 1.9>1.0 JUN 2.0>1.0 JUL 2>1.0 AUG 2.0>1.0 SEP 2>1.0 OCT 2>1.0
VX SFO-PVR JUN 0.2>0.3 JUL 0.1>0.3

This sure helps (along with your y-o-y comparison) explain where some of the a/c for the new routes are coming from. I note that it appears SFO-MCO is gone at the end of summer?

bb


User currently offlineusairways85 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 3326 posts, RR: 7
Reply 13, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day ago) and read 9371 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
PHL was so overserved with their inital schedule
*VX PHL-SFO MAY 1.9>1.0 JUN 2.0>1.0 JUL 2>1.0 AUG 2.0>1.0 SEP 2>1.0 OCT 2>1.0

Not too bad, UA and US just dumped capacity on the route.
Before VX
PHL-SFO
UA 3 daily (2 daily during some of the winter)
US 4 daily (3 daily during some of the winter)

After VX (this past summer)
UA 4 daily
US 5-6 daily
VX 2-3 daily


User currently onlineAVENSAB727 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 836 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day ago) and read 9292 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
UA IAH-GUA JUL 3>4
UA IAH-MTY JUN 8>9 JUL 8>9
UA IAH-SJD JUN 2>3

Looks like UA is adding frequencies for the summer. IAH-SJD looks like it got a new frequency.



Always look on the bright side of Life!
User currently onlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6729 posts, RR: 18
Reply 15, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day ago) and read 9244 times:

Quoting AVLAirlineFreq (Reply 2):
Nothing personal, but why would DL add flights from EWN to two cities that aren't hubs for DL?

Well, LGA is a hub.. MCO is a large station.. and BWI would be the Washington metro region.. all pretty much able to generate their own traffic.. and as sole occupants on the route, DL could be able to price it to make it profitable.. but it's just a thought on my end that those routes are needed from EWN and DL seems like they could potentially do it with a CRJ each...

Quoting enilria (Reply 7):
Absent ERJ170 giving them $5 million, they wouldn't.

don't think anyone can say absolutely they wouldn't.. they haven't.. but they could.. anything is worth a shot, but I"m just asking to consider it.. 1 a day can't hurt trying and except LGA none are slot controlled.. just Aircraft dependent and I believe DL has an aircraft to spare for this.. but, again, just a thought..



Aiming High and going far..
User currently offlinePIEAvantiP180 From United States of America, joined Sep 2009, 522 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day ago) and read 9238 times:
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Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
Holy god. How many trips in this market now???
*UA SFO-AUS MAY 4>5 JUN 4>6 JUL 4>6 AUG 4>6 SEP 4>5 OCT 4>5
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*B6 AUS-SFO JUN 1.0>2 JUL 1.0>2 AUG 1.0>2
Probably also VX related

It seems to me that AA, AS, B6, DL, UA, US are all secretly cooperating and ganging up on VX. If looking at VX financials i think the sharks are smelling blood in the water and trying to go for the kill. Every route announcement by VX is immediately being followed up by one carrier or another with upgrades in aircraft and or frequency increases on the same routes. If this keeps up for to long i don't see VX being able to hold on for to much longer.


User currently offlineTdan From United States of America, joined Nov 2011, 394 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (1 year 2 months 23 hours ago) and read 9220 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*B6 AUS-SFO JUN 1.0>2 JUL 1.0>2 AUG 1.0>2
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*UA SFO-AUS MAY 4>5 JUN 4>6 JUL 4>6 AUG 4>6 SEP 4>5 OCT 4>5
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*UA SFO-ANC JUN 0.8>1.7 JUL 1.0>2 AUG 0.8>2
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*VX ANC-SFO JUN 0>0.7 JUL 0>0.8 AUG 0>0.9
*VX AUS-SFO JUN 0>1.0 JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>1.0 SEP 0>1.0 OCT 0>1.0

I'm sorry, but this is absolutely hilarious! You've got to love capitalism sometimes just for its hyper-competitive absurdity. The established carriers smell blood in the water. This kind of competitive response might finish VX for good if they can't figure out a way to generate above commodity-level fares.



We will ride this thunderbird, silver shadows on the earth, a thousand leagues away our land of birth... -Captain Bruce
User currently offlinebobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1446 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (1 year 2 months 23 hours ago) and read 9082 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
Interesting. I remember when they had 3rts. Pressure on F9?
*AS SEA-DEN JUN 4>5 JUL 4>5 AUG 4>5

Not everything an airline does is a reaction to what a competitor is doing. Simply reacting is a recipe for losing money

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 5):
I have said this for along time on here. This route is the opposite of a gold mine for Frontier or United or Delta. DEN-LGA maybe use to be high fare but that is the past. the times when united printed money on this route is far gone. Peak summer at that. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see Frontier leave LGA

Have fares gone down a lot?

Quoting redzeppelin (Reply 6):
This is interesting. Does this mean that GEG will only be served from DEN now? Surely they didn't get scared off by DL adding GEG-LAX.

Of course they didnt. Probably better use of a plane somewhere else. But now theyve lost the ability to fly GEG pax west.


User currently offlineOA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5225 posts, RR: 25
Reply 19, posted (1 year 2 months 23 hours ago) and read 9082 times:

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 5):

You have to keep in mind that CO is a strong year-round market, but particularly strong in winter when East Coasters flock to the area to ski. You're going to tend to get fewer people in summer. That's not to say it's making money, it may well be losing a ton, but this isn't necessarily an indication that the route is a goner.



Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24641 posts, RR: 86
Reply 20, posted (1 year 2 months 23 hours ago) and read 9032 times:
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Quoting mariner (Reply 10):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
Following is a comparison of F9's Summer schedule versus 2012
Looks like DE is down 27 rts or so...

Wow. Given the number of aircraft that have left the fleet, I thought it would be more than that.

I guess the addition of EUG and FAT changes that number. Wow, again.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24326 posts, RR: 47
Reply 21, posted (1 year 2 months 23 hours ago) and read 8991 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
AZ LAX-FCO OCT 0.8>0.5

AZ decided to make LAX seasonal again. Last flight October 27.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
DL LAX-GDL JUL 1.0>1.1 AUG 0.4>0.5 SEP 0>0.1 OCT 0>0.1

A bit of a joke on the 2nd busiest US-Mexico city pair.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineFoxBravo From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2948 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (1 year 2 months 23 hours ago) and read 8898 times:

Interesting, Seaborne is really stepping in to replace American Eagle out of SJU. I knew about EIS, VIJ and the USVI, but now DOM, FDF, PTP, etc. This gives further support to the rumors on another recent thread of a codeshare or more (e.g., "Eagle" marketing) with AA.


Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
User currently offlineAVLAirlineFreq From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 970 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (1 year 2 months 22 hours ago) and read 8844 times:

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 15):
Quoting AVLAirlineFreq (Reply 2):
Nothing personal, but why would DL add flights from EWN to two cities that aren't hubs for DL?

Well, LGA is a hub.. MCO is a large station.. and BWI would be the Washington metro region.. all pretty much able to generate their own traffic.. and as sole occupants on the route, DL could be able to price it to make it profitable.. but it's just a thought on my end that those routes are needed from EWN and DL seems like they could potentially do it with a CRJ each...

Then you should be lobbying for US from DCA or UA from IAD. And to MCO, F9 (which had shown a willingness to try smaller markets out of MCO, like COU and SHO, although that experiment may be ending) or G4 (although G4 did briefly try ISO-SFB a couple of years ago).

DL is not going to add P2P service to and from EWN.


User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5229 posts, RR: 14
Reply 24, posted (1 year 2 months 22 hours ago) and read 8828 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
AS SEA-SAN JUN 8>9 JUL 8>9 AUG 8>9

This is a nice increase over even last summer (by 1 daily r/t) but it's difficult to tell if it's a pre-emptive strike at possible DL intrusion into the market or just part of the SAN build-up that continues for AS (IMHO.) Either way, I like it!

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
AS PDX-LAX JUL 5>6

Again, this could be notice to DL or just summer (seasonal) traffic increases; PDX does seem to be experiencing solid growth these days. (I suppose it could be a bit of a nudge at VX also, or even a feeling that NK could be considering jumping in...) I did check and my earlier thought about a/c changes affecting capacity is NOT the case; AS is running all mainline on the route with a healthy increase between May and June of 1 daily r/t.

I'm enjoying monitoring AS's summer schedules as they gradually come together.

bb


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32183 posts, RR: 72
Reply 25, posted (1 year 2 months 22 hours ago) and read 9061 times:

Quoting redzeppelin (Reply 6):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
UA SFO-GEG MAY 2>1.3 JUN 2>0 JUL 2>0 AUG 2>0 SEP 2>0 OCT 2>0

This is interesting. Does this mean that GEG will only be served from DEN now? Surely they didn't get scared off by DL adding GEG-LAX.

Don't think UA is scared off by Delta flying LAXGEG for a grand total of nine weeks.



a.
User currently offlineredzeppelin From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 499 posts, RR: 0
Reply 26, posted (1 year 2 months 22 hours ago) and read 8972 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 25):
Don't think UA is scared off by Delta flying LAXGEG for a grand total of nine weeks.

Of course not. I threw in the comment about Delta's new flight to emphasize the contrast of UA reducing service at GEG while others are adding flights there. I'm just trying to figure out what's up with UA completely dropping it's twice-daily service to Spokane from SFO. That really surprised me, although I admit that I don't know a lot about the GEG market.



Happiness is rediscovering a forgotten L-1011 in your flight log.
User currently offlineJoeljack From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 924 posts, RR: 0
Reply 27, posted (1 year 2 months 22 hours ago) and read 9079 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
US DCA-OMA APR 1.7>0.9 MAY 1.7>0.9 JUN 1.7>0.8 JUL 1.7>0.9 AUG 1.7>0.8 SEP 1.7>0.9 OCT 1.7>0.9

Looks like US is dropping the morning OMA-DCA flight. So this leaves F9 and US both flying about the same time flights around 4pm plus/minus OMA-DCA.

This makes no sense to me and a friend of mine that travels weekly OMA-DCA is really upset without the Monday morning OMA-DCA that's been around for years either on F9 or now US. He said the 4pm doesn't work for him because he needs to be there Monday as soon as possible to work. Plus he said the Monday morning US flight from OMA-DCA is always full and it's not cheap many times in excess of $500. Something doesn't add up here.


User currently offlineyellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 5886 posts, RR: 2
Reply 28, posted (1 year 2 months 21 hours ago) and read 8731 times:

Quoting PIEAvantiP180 (Reply 16):
It seems to me that AA, AS, B6, DL, UA, US are all secretly cooperating and ganging up on VX. If looking at VX financials i think the sharks are smelling blood in the water and trying to go for the kill.

I dunno about secretly (as that would be illegal) but certainly they are all "thinking" the same thing.....Isn't B6 hiring 150-200 new pilots..maybe a sign of things to come if they snatch up VXs fleet? Perhaps the other carriers feel that they better put VX out of its misery now or risk them gaining a foothold (a la B6 in NYC).

Would Delta's new relationship with VS have any (even a little) bearing on their strategy toward VX?



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlinePIEAvantiP180 From United States of America, joined Sep 2009, 522 posts, RR: 0
Reply 29, posted (1 year 2 months 20 hours ago) and read 8437 times:
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Quoting yellowtail (Reply 28):

Just joking on the secret thing but as you said they all seem to be thinking the same way. Besides B6 picking up us some of the lost Trans con route capacity if VX were to shut down I don't think they would want to go further then that. B6 is currently profitable and that would go away quickly if they were to pick up a large non profit operation from VX. Plus I don't believe AA, DL, and UA would just sit and watch someone else pick up the VX leftovers without them getting involved.


User currently offlinejetmatt777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2725 posts, RR: 34
Reply 30, posted (1 year 2 months 19 hours ago) and read 8366 times:

Quoting Joeljack (Reply 27):
Something doesn't add up here.

Obviously it's not money adding up, or they'd keep the frequency.



No info
User currently offlinebobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1446 posts, RR: 1
Reply 31, posted (1 year 2 months 18 hours ago) and read 7828 times:

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 28):

DL's relationship has no bearing on how they respond to VX.

Quoting PIEAvantiP180 (Reply 29):

B6 should not pick up any capacity dropped by VX.


User currently offlinekgaiflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 4143 posts, RR: 1
Reply 32, posted (1 year 2 months 17 hours ago) and read 7623 times:
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Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*UA IAD-YQB AUG 0>0.2 SEP 0>1.0 OCT 0>1.0

A couple years ago, Nova Scotia did a huge blitz job in DC on YHZ as a destination.

Quebec City needs to do pretty much the same thing for YQB -- like their old "Friendly, foreign, and nearby."


User currently offlineFSDan From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 729 posts, RR: 2
Reply 33, posted (1 year 2 months 15 hours ago) and read 6931 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
DL ATL-YYC JUL 0>0.1 AUG 0>0.2

Interesting. Is this the first time DL has tried this route?



SEA SFO SJC LAX ONT SAN DEN IAH DFW OMA FSD MSP MSN MKE ORD DTW CVG MEM JAN BHM RSW ATL CLT BWI PHL LGA JFK MEX LIM KEF
User currently offlinecschleic From United States of America, joined Feb 2002, 1228 posts, RR: 0
Reply 34, posted (1 year 2 months 15 hours ago) and read 6912 times:

Quoting SANFan (Reply 12):
AS PDX-LAX JUL 5>6
Quoting SANFan (Reply 12):
Finally, PDX-LAX could be pre-emptive against DL or just equipment shuffling?

Or seasonal? PDX has a high leisure component, so summer is much busier.


User currently offlinen7371f From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1644 posts, RR: 12
Reply 35, posted (1 year 2 months 14 hours ago) and read 6766 times:
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Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
Interesting. I remember when they had 3rts. Pressure on F9?
*AS SEA-DEN JUN 4>5 JUL 4>5 AUG 4>5

SEA-DEN in the summer is gang busters. Plus UA is a shell of itself on this route. Not sure why every route add is pressure on F9; would chalk this up to seasonal demand.


User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 6944 posts, RR: 18
Reply 36, posted (1 year 2 months 14 hours ago) and read 6750 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
DL CVG-YYZ JUN 3>1.8 JUL 3>1.5 AUG 3>1.5 SEP 3>1.6 OCT 3>1.7

Hmm i wonder if this is Air-Canada related or not. Kinda strange to see this one slipping.

Quoting AVLAirlineFreq (Reply 2):
Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 1):
Dear Delta,

Can you please add the following:

EWN-BWI 0>1
EWN-LGA 0>1
EWN-MCO 0>1

Nothing personal, but why would DL add flights from EWN to two cities that aren't hubs for DL?

My thoughts exactly... when I request service on DL to CVG, CVG is a hub, remember.

You're better off begging WN or B6 to fly those routes  



One of the FB admins for PHX Spotters. "Zach the Expat!"
User currently offlinen7371f From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1644 posts, RR: 12
Reply 37, posted (1 year 2 months 14 hours ago) and read 6703 times:
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Quoting redzeppelin (Reply 26):
Of course not. I threw in the comment about Delta's new flight to emphasize the contrast of UA reducing service at GEG while others are adding flights there. I'm just trying to figure out what's up with UA completely dropping it's twice-daily service to Spokane from SFO. That really surprised me, although I admit that I don't know a lot about the GEG market.

I fly this about a dozen times a year...and I'm shocked! I have no idead what UA is doing with GEG but then I've wondered for 10 years. 10 years ago UA flew 3x daily with 733's. Of course the industry has changed but SFO-GEG has been around since, well, my 41 years. It doesn't make any sense to me -- summer traffic surges at GEG.



I don't think UA is bringing back the seasonal once-a-day GEG-ORD on a E70 either this summer. And as I've posted before, the second GEG-DEN is so late in the day that you cannot connect to anything east of ORD.

And UA still maintains a healthy group of very veteran UA employees above and below wing.


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24641 posts, RR: 86
Reply 38, posted (1 year 2 months 14 hours ago) and read 6679 times:
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Quoting n7371f (Reply 35):
SEA-DEN in the summer is gang busters. Plus UA is a shell of itself on this route. Not sure why every route add is pressure on F9; would chalk this up to seasonal demand.

Frontier is going up to 5 x daily DEN-SEA for the summer. Perhaps I could call that call it pressure on Alaska just to even things up.  

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 6838 posts, RR: 14
Reply 39, posted (1 year 2 months 14 hours ago) and read 6655 times:

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 8):
Is it me or is there a conscious effort by DL, UA, AS and WN to really squeeze VX now?

Yup. Disturbing. Everyone bemoans VX's losses, but this type of behavior hoping to drive them out of business is why.

Quoting mariner (Reply 10):
Looks like DE is down 27 rts or so...

Wow. Given the number of aircraft that have left the fleet, I thought it would be more than that.

Always taking the optimistic approach.

Quoting mariner (Reply 10):
I'm puzzled that the increases at CVG and MDT aren't there in the "changed" bit, or obscured, but I guess it's the ol' "low frequency filter" at work.
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
F9 DEN-CVG JUN 0>1.0 JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>1.0

Or it could just be your eyesight.

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 11):
No slots at LGA can be sold, they can only be traded or leased.

Not true. US sold a ton to DL a couple of years ago.

Quoting SANFan (Reply 12):
This sure helps (along with your y-o-y comparison) explain where some of the a/c for the new routes are coming from. I note that it appears SFO-MCO is gone at the end of summer?

Still seems like they are over-scheduled.

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 18):
Not everything an airline does is a reaction to what a competitor is doing. Simply reacting is a recipe for losing money

Although AUS-SFO has plenty of that.

Quoting mariner (Reply 20):
I guess the addition of EUG and FAT changes that number. Wow, again.

Each operates only about 30 times.

BTW, I thought you said they had to drop COS because they were short of aircraft?


User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11126 posts, RR: 62
Reply 40, posted (1 year 2 months 14 hours ago) and read 6585 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
BB SJU-DOM APR 0>1.0 MAY 0>1.0 JUN 0>1.0 JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>1.0 SEP 0>1.0 OCT 0>1.0
BB SJU-EIS APR 8>6 MAY 8>6 JUN 8>6 JUL 8>6 AUG 8>6 SEP 0>6 OCT 0>6
BB SJU-FDF APR 0>0.5 MAY 0>0.6 JUN 0>0.6 JUL 0>0.5 AUG 0>0.6 SEP 0>0.6 OCT 0>0.5
BB SJU-PTP APR 0>0.6 MAY 0>0.5 JUN 0>0.6 JUL 0>0.6 AUG 0>0.6 SEP 0>0.6 OCT 0>0.6
BB SJU-STT APR 2>5 MAY 2>5 JUN 2>5 JUL 2>5 AUG 2>5 SEP 0>5 OCT 0>5
BB SJU-STX APR 5>3 MAY 5>3 JUN 5>4 JUL 5>4 AUG 5>4 SEP 0>4 OCT 0>4
BB SJU-VIJ SEP 0>1.0 OCT 0>1.0
BB SJU-VQS APR 0.4>1.3 MAY 0.5>1.5 JUN 0.4>1.4 JUL 0.4>1.4 AUG 0.5>1.5 SEP 0>1.0 OCT 0>1.0
BB STT-SJU APR 3>5 MAY 3>5 JUN 3>5 JUL 3>5 AUG 3>5 SEP 0>5 OCT 0>5
BB STT-STX APR 1.1>8 MAY 1.0>7 JUN 0>7 JUL 0>7 AUG 0>7 SEP 0>5 OCT 0>5
BB STX-SJU APR 5>4 MAY 5>4 SEP 0>5 OCT 0>5
BB STX-VQS APR 0>1.0 MAY 0>1.0 JUN 0>1.0 JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>1.0 SEP 0>1.0 OCT 0>1.0
BB VQS-SJU APR 0>1.0 MAY 0>1.0 JUN 0>1.0 JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>1.0 SEP 0>1.0 OCT 0>1.0

  Interesting ...

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 8):
What did they add? A Wed? RTB does have some O&D to MIA and this will help.

I agree - MIA-RTB seems to be doing well (as could be expected). Indeed, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see a Sa 738 DFW-RTB in the not too distant future.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 8):
Is it me or is there a conscious effort by DL, UA, AS and WN to really squeeze VX now?

Well it isn't collusive - none of them are stupid enough for that - but I suppose that competitors sense that VX is in a challenging position, and other carriers are taking advantage of it in little ways where they can.

Quoting phatfarmlines (Reply 9):
Crap...I don't think AA even had 8 JFK-SDQ flights during the summer ever.

No, I don't think AA was ever at 8x daily JFK-SDQ, although I would not be surprised if AA at times in the past ran as much if not more capacity in the JFK-SDQ market. For many years, AA routinely flew 4+ daily round-trips on A300s, and those planes were configured with well over 250 seats.


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24641 posts, RR: 86
Reply 41, posted (1 year 2 months 14 hours ago) and read 6549 times:
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Quoting enilria (Reply 39):
Always taking the optimistic approach.

It works well for me.

Quoting enilria (Reply 39):
Or it could just be your eyesight.

It isn't listed as a separate add - which, given what you said last week about Delta's response ("pissed") seems odd to me.

I see that DEN-GSO isn't in the long comparative list or DEN-SNA, which has been flying for a few years.

Unless my eyesight is really, really bad. Could be, I guess.

Quoting enilria (Reply 39):
BTW, I thought you said they had to drop COS because they were short of aircraft?

I said that they dropped COS because the good folk at COS wouldn't pay extra for non-stop service - and since the fleet is constrained I think it seems better to use the aircraft somewhere else.

But I speak about Frontier. I don't speak for Frontier.

mariner

[Edited 2013-02-18 19:39:57]


aeternum nauta
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 6944 posts, RR: 18
Reply 42, posted (1 year 2 months 14 hours ago) and read 6532 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 39):

Quoting mariner (Reply 10):
I'm puzzled that the increases at CVG and MDT aren't there in the "changed" bit, or obscured, but I guess it's the ol' "low frequency filter" at work.
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
F9 DEN-CVG JUN 0>1.0 JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>1.0

Or it could just be your eyesight.

It was posted last thread too.



One of the FB admins for PHX Spotters. "Zach the Expat!"
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24641 posts, RR: 86
Reply 43, posted (1 year 2 months 14 hours ago) and read 6494 times:
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Quoting PHX787 (Reply 42):
It was posted last thread too.

I checked last week's thread before I posted here. I don't see the additional frequency DEN-CVG:

F9 CLE-CUN MAY 0.3>0.1
F9 COU-MCO APR 0.4>0.3
F9 DEN-DTW MAY 1.9>1.0 JUN 2>1.0


mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineslcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3106 posts, RR: 0
Reply 44, posted (1 year 2 months 13 hours ago) and read 6302 times:

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 18):
Have fares gone down a lot?

definitely in the whole nyc market to denver. Southwest lowerered prices out of EWR alot from the united monopoly they were running and incredible last minute fares. LGA use to be a gold mine for United then in a relatively short amount of time entered frontier, southwest, delta from LGA and jetblue and delta out of JFK. I Denver-NYC is often amazing how cheap it is per mile some true bargains at times super competative the route has added alot of competition in a relatively short amount of time.

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 5):
F9 DEN-LGA JUN 4>1.8 JUL 4>1.9 AUG 4>1.8

Colorado is extremely popular in the summer and frontier with all the connection possibilities should want to fly it maximum in the summer when travel is so extremely high. Its clearly a sign of some type if they do indeed do this maybe even just lease the slots out its easy cash and probably a better return then flying such a competative route? Maybe frontier just doenst know yet or working on a lease and wants to make them not bookable its still a ways away but something is up.


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24641 posts, RR: 86
Reply 45, posted (1 year 2 months 13 hours ago) and read 6283 times:
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Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 44):
Colorado is extremely popular in the summer and frontier with all the connection possibilities should want to fly it maximum in the summer when travel is so extremely high. Its clearly a sign of some type if they do indeed do this maybe even just lease the slots out its easy cash and probably a better return then flying such a competative route?

The way it has worked for Frontier so far - in almost all of the restructure - is that less capacity has usually improved yields.

And with oil close to $120 a barrel again - and fare price hikes not going too well - I would think everyone wants to improve yields.

mariner

[Edited 2013-02-18 20:16:43]


aeternum nauta
User currently offlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1280 posts, RR: 1
Reply 46, posted (1 year 2 months 13 hours ago) and read 6230 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 39):
Not true. US sold a ton to DL a couple of years ago.

I'm sorry but you are wrong, they probably leased the slots but there is no selling slots, only leasing and trading.
Here is some helpful information on slots at LGA, EWR, JFK and DCA.



You will either love or hate the airline industry. If you love it, it will get in your blood and it will never leave.
User currently offlineFL787 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1531 posts, RR: 12
Reply 47, posted (1 year 2 months 12 hours ago) and read 6034 times:

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 46):
I'm sorry but you are wrong, they probably leased the slots but there is no selling slots, only leasing and trading.

While that is normally true, it was not in the case of the slot swap between DL/US:

"In 2009, because airlines are prohibited from selling or purchasing
slots under the temporary order at LaGuardia, Delta Air Lines and US
Airways sought a waiver from DOT's Office of the Secretary and FAA
from this prohibition to exchange slots at LaGuardia and Reagan
National because Delta wanted to establish a domestic hub at LaGuardia
and US Airways wanted to increase service at Reagan National. In 2011,
DOT's Office of the Secretary and FAA together granted the joint
waiver request that permitted the transfer and sale of more than 300
slots between the two airlines, provided that they divest a total of
48 slots (24 slot pairs) at Reagan National and LaGuardia to new
airline entrants and airlines holding less than 5 percent of the slots
at those airports.
"

http://www.gao.gov/assets/650/648378.txt



717,72S,732/3/4/5/G/8/9,744,752/3,763/4,772/3,D9S/5,M8/90,D10,319/20/21,332/3,388,CR2/7/9,EM2,ER4,E70/75/90,SF3,AR8
User currently offlinekgaiflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 4143 posts, RR: 1
Reply 48, posted (1 year 2 months 12 hours ago) and read 6006 times:
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Quoting FSDan (Reply 33):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):DL ATL-YYC JUL 0>0.1 AUG 0>0.2

Interesting. Is this the first time DL has tried this route?

But in July and August?

This is a snowbird route.


User currently offlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1280 posts, RR: 1
Reply 49, posted (1 year 2 months 12 hours ago) and read 5999 times:

Quoting FL787 (Reply 47):
While that is normally true, it was not in the case of the slot swap between DL/US:

Yes, he made it sound like he was talking about something other then the slot swap though.



You will either love or hate the airline industry. If you love it, it will get in your blood and it will never leave.
User currently offlinexpfg From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 633 posts, RR: 7
Reply 50, posted (1 year 2 months 12 hours ago) and read 5924 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
**VX MCO-SFO MAY 1.0>0.7 JUN 1.0>0.5 JUL 1.0>0.2 AUG 1.0>0 SEP 1.0>0 OCT 1.0>0

Wow, that's interesting. Has this been announced anywhere?


User currently offlinedbo861 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 861 posts, RR: 1
Reply 51, posted (1 year 2 months 11 hours ago) and read 5781 times:

Quoting SANFan (Reply 12):
This sure helps (along with your y-o-y comparison) explain where some of the a/c for the new routes are coming from. I note that it appears SFO-MCO is gone at the end of summer?

Maybe we'll see some more short haul destinations on VX? With all of the reductions there should still be some slack in the fleet after the recent additions.

Quoting xpfg (Reply 50):

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
**VX MCO-SFO MAY 1.0>0.7 JUN 1.0>0.5 JUL 1.0>0.2 AUG 1.0>0 SEP 1.0>0 OCT 1.0>0

Wow, that's interesting. Has this been announced anywhere?

MCO will still be accessible from SFO via LAX. It's interesting they're veering away from serving every destination from both LAX and SFO. Maybe we'll see some point to point additions.


User currently offlinelegacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2022 posts, RR: 0
Reply 52, posted (1 year 2 months 11 hours ago) and read 5758 times:

Quoting xpfg (Reply 50):
Wow, that's interesting. Has this been announced anywhere?

I did a dummy booking on their site for SFO-MCO in October and was routed through LAX. Maybe they will try for MIA out of SFO.



John@SFO
User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5229 posts, RR: 14
Reply 53, posted (1 year 2 months 10 hours ago) and read 5727 times:

Quoting xpfg (Reply 50):
Wow, that's interesting. Has this been announced anywhere?

A dropped route is generally not "announced" by anyone (except on A.net.) VX has been up-front about announcing closed stations (YYZ and SNA) but as they are not closing MCO, don't expect to hear anything about it from them.

That's another reason that many of us appreciate these OAG threads of Enilria -- dropped routes can't hide for long!  

In any case, MCO is a well-known low yielding market and I guess the 2 UA n/s + the single n/s on VX proved to be too much capacity on the route... and VX blinked first. We'll see what else they come up with to use this particular plane for.

bb


User currently offlineyellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 5886 posts, RR: 2
Reply 54, posted (1 year 2 months 5 hours ago) and read 5402 times:

Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 48):
But in July and August?

Depending on the day of week and timings...this may be aimed at some c. American traffic....like RTB....
Folks from Calgary love going to places like RTB, LIR, BZE etc.



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16694 posts, RR: 51
Reply 55, posted (1 year 2 months 5 hours ago) and read 5362 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
UA EWR-ANC JUL 0>0.1 AUG 0>0.2

Nice addition, there was a thread discussing ANC-NYC not that long ago.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7343 posts, RR: 28
Reply 56, posted (1 year 2 months 4 hours ago) and read 5285 times:

Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 48):
Quoting FSDan (Reply 33):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):DL ATL-YYC JUL 0>0.1 AUG 0>0.2

Interesting. Is this the first time DL has tried this route?

But in July and August?

This is a snowbird route.

YYC is the gateway to the Banff / Lake Louise region, which is a huge summer travel destination for US tourists going to the Canadian Rockies.


User currently offlineyellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 5886 posts, RR: 2
Reply 57, posted (1 year 2 months 4 hours ago) and read 5256 times:

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 56):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):DL ATL-YYC JUL 0>0.1 AUG 0>0.2

I have tried looking for the flight but can't find it...does anyone know the schedule?



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlineFoxBravo From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2948 posts, RR: 5
Reply 58, posted (1 year 2 months 4 hours ago) and read 5193 times:

Quoting commavia (Reply 40):
Interesting ...

Indeed. See my reply #22.



Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
User currently offlineFSDan From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 729 posts, RR: 2
Reply 59, posted (1 year 2 months 3 hours ago) and read 5156 times:

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 57):
I have tried looking for the flight but can't find it...does anyone know the schedule?

From DL's electronic timetable (which, of course, is very much subject to change this far out):

DL 1419 Dep. ATL 9:50a Arr. YYC 12:22p 738 Saturday only
DL 1419 Dep. YYC 1:20p Arr. ATL 7:33p 738 Saturday only



SEA SFO SJC LAX ONT SAN DEN IAH DFW OMA FSD MSP MSN MKE ORD DTW CVG MEM JAN BHM RSW ATL CLT BWI PHL LGA JFK MEX LIM KEF
User currently onlinejfklganyc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3176 posts, RR: 5
Reply 60, posted (1 year 2 months 3 hours ago) and read 5089 times:

Quoting PIEAvantiP180 (Reply 16):
Quoting airliner371 (Reply 46):
I'm sorry but you are wrong, they probably leased the slots but there is no selling slots, only leasing and trading.
Here is some helpful information on slots at LGA, EWR, JFK and DCA.

Great table. Thank you!


User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7343 posts, RR: 28
Reply 61, posted (1 year 2 months 3 hours ago) and read 5095 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
DL ATL-DEN JUL 9>8

DL will be operating a domestic 763 on ATL-DEN this summer.
The schedule currently shows 1-738, 3-M90, 3-757, 1-763


User currently offlinekgaiflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 4143 posts, RR: 1
Reply 62, posted (1 year 2 months 3 hours ago) and read 5060 times:
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Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 56):
Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 48):Quoting FSDan (Reply 33):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):DL ATL-YYC JUL 0>0.1 AUG 0>0.2

Interesting. Is this the first time DL has tried this route?

But in July and August? This is a snowbird route.

YYC is the gateway to the Banff / Lake Louise region, which is a huge summer travel destination for US tourists going to the Canadian Rockies.

I get it.

This is like the DL ATL-BIL route and the UA EWR-BZN route.


User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 6838 posts, RR: 14
Reply 63, posted (1 year 2 months 2 hours ago) and read 4923 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 41):
It isn't listed as a separate add.
OAG Changes 2/8/2012: AC/B6/DL/FL/UA
F9 COS-PHX APR 0.3>0.1
*F9 DEN-CVG JUN 0>0.8
*F9 DEN-DAY MAY 0.9>0.5 JUN 0.8>0


Thanks for wasting my time chasing down non-existent errors...

FYI, DEN-MDT doesn't appear in the YOY F9 comparison because F9 flew it last year, thus it is not a change.

Quoting mariner (Reply 41):
I don't speak for Frontier.

Hard to tell sometimes!

Quoting xpfg (Reply 50):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
**VX MCO-SFO MAY 1.0>0.7 JUN 1.0>0.5 JUL 1.0>0.2 AUG 1.0>0 SEP 1.0>0 OCT 1.0>0

Wow, that's interesting. Has this been announced anywhere?
Quoting SANFan (Reply 53):
A dropped route is generally not "announced" by anyone

Exactly.

Quoting SANFan (Reply 53):
That's another reason that many of us appreciate these OAG threads of Enilria -- dropped routes can't hide for long!

 
Yes, it's often the list of shame.


User currently offlinepoint2point From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 2634 posts, RR: 1
Reply 64, posted (1 year 2 months 2 hours ago) and read 4881 times:

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 61):
DL will be operating a domestic 763 on ATL-DEN this summer.
The schedule currently shows 1-738, 3-M90, 3-757, 1-763

Kool..... DEN gets a DL wide body for the summer. Since it's a domestic, does anyone know where this bird continues to after it reaches ATL? I imagine that it's not flying outside of U.S. boarders.


 


User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 16946 posts, RR: 48
Reply 65, posted (1 year 2 months 2 hours ago) and read 4873 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 39):
Yup. Disturbing. Everyone bemoans VX's losses, but this type of behavior hoping to drive them out of business is why.

Looks like they picked the wrong day to be in the airline industry! 
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 21):

A bit of a joke on the 2nd busiest US-Mexico city pair.

The fares are atrocious--if fares went up to reasonable levels I wonder how small the highly price sensitive market would get



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlinebobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1446 posts, RR: 1
Reply 66, posted (1 year 2 months 2 hours ago) and read 4804 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 39):
Quoting enilria (Reply 39):

Airlines go out of business because of what they do to themselves, not what competitors do to them. It's tough to find many examples of a good business plan that failed due to competitors predatory behavior. VX has a bad business plan.


User currently offlineC172Akula From Canada, joined Mar 2001, 996 posts, RR: 4
Reply 67, posted (1 year 2 months ago) and read 4573 times:

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 56):
YYC is the gateway to the Banff / Lake Louise region, which is a huge summer travel destination for US tourists going to the Canadian Rockies.

I'm excited to see some more DL metal into YYC. I wonder if there is the potential for this route to operate in the winter ski season too? Lots of great skiing within a very quick drive from YYC (3 hours and less, some as close as 1-1/2 hours away).


User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7343 posts, RR: 28
Reply 68, posted (1 year 2 months ago) and read 4570 times:

Quoting point2point (Reply 64):
Kool..... DEN gets a DL wide body for the summer. Since it's a domestic, does anyone know where this bird continues to after it reaches ATL? I imagine that it's not flying outside of U.S. boarders.

On to another dometic market - SEA, SFO, SLC, LAX most likely.

Quoting C172Akula (Reply 67):
I'm excited to see some more DL metal into YYC. I wonder if there is the potential for this route to operate in the winter ski season too? Lots of great skiing within a very quick drive from YYC (3 hours and less, some as close as 1-1/2 hours away).

I highly doubt DL will operate ATL-YYC in the winter. Right now this is Sat-only service during the peak summer travel season. MSP is DL's primary gateway into the Canadian markets. Even as it is now, DL only operates 2x daily E75 on MSP-YYC during the winter. This is less capacity than NW used to run, and they could add ample capacity into the market as necessary. Skier in the US are much more likely to go to Colorado and Utah than the Canadian Rockies.


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24641 posts, RR: 86
Reply 69, posted (1 year 2 months ago) and read 4540 times:
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Quoting enilria (Reply 63):
OAG Changes 2/8/2012: AC/B6/DL/FL/UA
F9 COS-PHX APR 0.3>0.1
*F9 DEN-CVG JUN 0"0.8
*F9 DEN-DAY MAY 0.9>0.5 JUN 0.8>0 Thanks for wasting my time chasing down non-existent errors...

I think we're talking about different things. There is a change from that and what you now show.

I assume that was the original announcement of CVG at 6 x weekly. It is now on sale as 7 x weekly (not daily) and which you now show in your long comparative list as:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
F9 DEN-CVG JUN 0>1.0 JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>1.0

There is a change which hasn't been noted.

It doesn't matter - it's one frequency on one very small airline - but it is a route that has been much discussed and often in negative terms.

mariner

[Edited 2013-02-19 09:36:48]


aeternum nauta
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 6838 posts, RR: 14
Reply 70, posted (1 year 2 months ago) and read 4475 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 65):
Quoting enilria (Reply 39):
Yup. Disturbing. Everyone bemoans VX's losses, but this type of behavior hoping to drive them out of business is why.

Looks like they picked the wrong day to be in the airline industry!

I guess...I like competition and not losing some of the few remaining airlines.

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 66):
Airlines go out of business because of what they do to themselves, not what competitors do to them.

Well, it's sort of an accumulation of things. 9/11 sent a bunch of airlines into Ch11. I wouldn't say they did that themselves.

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 66):
VX has a bad business plan.

I suppose they do, but B6's original business plan wasn't all that different on the opposite coast.

Quoting mariner (Reply 69):
I think we're talking about different things. There is a change from that and what you now show.
Quoting mariner (Reply 69):
That was the original announcement of CVG at 6 x weekly. It is now on sale as 7 x weekly (not daily) and which you now show in your long comparative list as:
Quoting mariner (Reply 69):
it's one frequency on one very small airline

So, you are complaining that DEN-CVG went from 6/week to 7/week and my report didn't flag it??? You are aware that there were 4,000+ changes of less than 2 flights per week in this week's OAG update that nobody here wants to see except you. Why would any sane person want to wreck this report to sift through thousands of irrelevant 1/week changes? As I often say, if you find this thread worthless because it doesn't display changes of 1 flight per week then make your own thread that does.


User currently offlineAVLAirlineFreq From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 970 posts, RR: 0
Reply 71, posted (1 year 2 months ago) and read 4473 times:

Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 62):
This is like the DL ATL-BIL route and the UA EWR-BZN route.

Yes, exactly, although I believe DL flies ATL-BZN, not ATL-BIL.


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24641 posts, RR: 86
Reply 72, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 4427 times:
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Quoting enilria (Reply 70):
So, you are complaining that DEN-CVG went from 6/week to 7/week and my report didn't flag it??? You are aware that there were 4,000 changes of less than 2 flights per week in this week's OAG update that nobody here wants to see except you.

Complaining? No. Puzzled? Yes. And pointing out the oddities.

mariner

[Edited 2013-02-19 09:57:25]


aeternum nauta
User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2926 posts, RR: 1
Reply 73, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 4358 times:

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 56):
YYC is the gateway to the Banff / Lake Louise region, which is a huge summer travel destination for US tourists going to the Canadian Rockies.

Aye, I think they call it Jasper National Park which is some most beautiful real estate and geography I've enjoyed driving through in North America. We crossed the border at Glacier National Park Montana and drove to Prince Rupert BC.



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 2882 posts, RR: 7
Reply 74, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 4318 times:

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 73):
Aye, I think they call it Jasper National Park which is some most beautiful real estate and geography I've enjoyed driving through in North America. We crossed the border at Glacier National Park Montana and drove to Prince Rupert BC.

There are four national parks in that area and several provincial parks. Jasper is the farthest north, in which YEG is actually a bit closer. I think the previous posting was referring to Banff National Park, which is closer to YYC and where Banff and Lake Louise are. There are ski areas in that area, but I'd definitely consider it more of a summer destination.


User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 6838 posts, RR: 14
Reply 75, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4227 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 72):
Complaining? No. Puzzled? Yes. And pointing out the oddities.

It's not an oddity. I'm telling you that domestic changes that small aren't shown. It's exactly the way it is supposed to work and I also explained why it's that way.


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24641 posts, RR: 86
Reply 76, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4201 times:
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Quoting enilria (Reply 75):
It's not an oddity. I'm telling you that domestic changes that small aren't shown. It's exactly the way it is supposed to work and I also explained why it's that way.

I understand and accept the "low frequency filter."

It just seems - to me - erratic because it picks up the drops but seems to miss some of the adds and the commentary is usually on the drops, not the adds.

But as I say, it really doesn't matter and if it offends you so much, I'll avoid pointing them out.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 6838 posts, RR: 14
Reply 77, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4113 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 76):
It just seems - to me - erratic because it picks up the drops but seems to miss some of the adds and the commentary is usually on the drops, not the adds.

The reason I comment more on the drops is because the adds are announced in press releases and the drops are rarely announced.

Quoting SANFan (Reply 53):
A dropped route is generally not "announced" by anyone

For example...


User currently offlinekgaiflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 4143 posts, RR: 1
Reply 78, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4075 times:
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Quoting AVLAirlineFreq (Reply 71):
Yes, exactly, although I believe DL flies ATL-BZN, not ATL-BIL.

ATL-BIL flew a couple of years ago with a CR-9.

At the time, G4 was new to Billings. But even as a competitor to G4, the route made little long-term sense.


User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7343 posts, RR: 28
Reply 79, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4071 times:

ATL-BIL makes zero sense now with the MSP and SLC service.

User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24641 posts, RR: 86
Reply 80, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 4065 times:
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Quoting enilria (Reply 77):
The reason I comment more on the drops is because the adds are announced in press releases and the drops are rarely announced.

That still doesn't quite explain how some of the adds are missing.

Look, it's your thread, you do whatever you want to do. If you don't want oddities pointed out or comments on the commentary - at least by me - fine, I won't participate.

I don't come here to fight.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineAVLAirlineFreq From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 970 posts, RR: 0
Reply 81, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 4036 times:

Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 78):
ATL-BIL flew a couple of years ago with a CR-9.

Wow, that's a long route on an RJ, even a CR9.


User currently offlineC172Akula From Canada, joined Mar 2001, 996 posts, RR: 4
Reply 82, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3943 times:

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 74):
There are four national parks in that area and several provincial parks. Jasper is the farthest north, in which YEG is actually a bit closer. I think the previous posting was referring to Banff National Park, which is closer to YYC and where Banff and Lake Louise are. There are ski areas in that area, but I'd definitely consider it more of a summer destination.

You are correct, YYC is closest to Banff national park. Driving time is only about 1-1/2 hours to the park gate from the airport.

Absolutely beautiful in the summer, but the winter is nothing to shrug at either.  


User currently offlineyellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 5886 posts, RR: 2
Reply 83, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3908 times:

Quoting FSDan (Reply 59):
DL 1419 Dep. ATL 9:50a Arr. YYC 12:22p 738 Saturday only
DL 1419 Dep. YYC 1:20p Arr. ATL 7:33p 738 Saturday only

Thanks!!!

But that won't work for RTB or BZE without an overnight....Arrrrrr!



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlinekgaiflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 4143 posts, RR: 1
Reply 84, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3869 times:
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Quoting AVLAirlineFreq (Reply 81):
Wow, that's a long route on an RJ, even a CR9.

Well, last Sunday I did ELP-IAH-IAD (1854 sm) in an E145. Many of the upscale IAH-IAD folks nearly had a heart attack when the saw the plane.

Btw, last April, I did PSP-IAH-IAD (2454 sm) in a CR-7.

COS-IAD (1464 sm in a CR-7) in now in its second year.

[Edited 2013-02-19 14:52:23]

User currently offlinejetbluefan1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2937 posts, RR: 14
Reply 85, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 3585 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 70):
I suppose they do, but B6's original business plan wasn't all that different on the opposite coast.

There are some similarities, such as the focus on service, and operating as an LCC with a home base at an underutilized/overpriced airport in a US megacity.

VX chooses to operate in the most competitive route pairings, with overlap from UA/B6/WN/AA -- markets which have already been stimulated by low fares and have ample capacity. VX does not dominate any market, by any standard, because it chooses to enter the most competitive markets possible to cater to a certain "niche" (one which isn't terribly profitable, apparently). Let us not forget VX is 49% owned by the Virgin Group, which is notorious for losing money just to gain SRB some notoriety.

B6, while operating some very competitive route pairings, has a lot of capacity on various niche/unique markets and route pairings (AZS, LIR, BQN, PCE, SDQ, STI, POP, SXM, BDA, LGB, SRQ), and dominates the highly profitable Northeast-Florida/Caribbean market. Not to mention its takeover of BOS has been rather impressive to watch, and the way it has dissembled AA in the Caribbean is astounding (especially considering the obstacles associated with entering international markets).

JetBluefan1



Most people on a.net hate JetBlue. Get used to it.
User currently offlinebobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1446 posts, RR: 1
Reply 86, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 3602 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 70):

B6 was very different from VX in their business plan. The NE to Florida is a very large price sensitive market with seemingly no bottom. Transcons are not as price sensitive.


User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 6838 posts, RR: 14
Reply 87, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 3323 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 80):
That still doesn't quite explain how some of the adds are missing.

Look, it's your thread, you do whatever you want to do. If you don't want oddities pointed out or comments on the commentary - at least by me - fine, I won't participate.

I don't come here to fight.

I've explained it. I told you what the repercussions would be of changing it to do what you want it to do and they are not acceptable. Continually questioning the accuracy of the post is grating. The code is the same for every airline.

Quoting jetbluefan1 (Reply 85):
There are some similarities, such as the focus on service, and operating as an LCC with a home base at an underutilized/overpriced airport in a US megacity.

I think the difference really is the reaction to VX at SFO is much stronger than B6 at JFK. UA was shrinking at SFO. WN didn't even operate there at all. When B6 entered JFK, the other carriers said "let them have JFK, we'll stay at LGA". VX got a much sterner reaction and it continues.

It is true that VX has attempted to focus on business rather than leisure and that has proven to be a very successful formula for large airlines and a very unsuccessful formula for start-ups. OTOH, JFK was not a very successful place for start-ups till B6.

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 86):
B6 was very different from VX in their business plan. The NE to Florida is a very large price sensitive market with seemingly no bottom. Transcons are not as price sensitive.

Yes, but B6 was very heavily invested in transcons at the onset. That was the bulk of their capacity. That changed later. Perhaps VX didn't have the flexibility of a Florida equivalent on the West Coast.


User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5215 posts, RR: 7
Reply 88, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 3166 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 70):
B6's original business plan wasn't all that different on the opposite coast.

B6 was much more successful than VX at setting itself apart from the competition as well as generating free publicity and 'buzz'. Doing that in NYC had a much bigger impact than trying to do it in a much smaller California market.



Consilivm: Cave ne nothi te vexant
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24641 posts, RR: 86
Reply 89, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 3047 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting enilria (Reply 87):
I've explained it. I told you what the repercussions would be of changing it to do what you want it to do and they are not acceptable. Continually questioning the accuracy of the post is grating. The code is the same for every airline.

If you are content that the information you post (and thus the commentary based on it) may be inaccurate then, as I say, this is not a thread for me.

Others appreciate it and I surely don't want to spoil their fun - I'm just looking out for my own.

Enjoy.  

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineEricR From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 1807 posts, RR: 1
Reply 90, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 3040 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 80):
That still doesn't quite explain how some of the adds are missing.



Out of all the airlines, F9 probably is the most difficult to track because their schizophrenic approach to adding and discontinuing routes.

USA Today had a funny article on February 19th discussing F9's struggle to find a viable route map that works for the airline. One quote from the article states the following:

"Where does Frontier Airlines fly? More and more, that may depend on when you ask"

http://www.usatoday.com/story/todayi...nd-a-route-map-that-works/1928881/


User currently offlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1280 posts, RR: 1
Reply 91, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 3010 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 89):

What is inaccurate, if you are talking about the .1 frequencies missing I think you are asking for a bit much.



You will either love or hate the airline industry. If you love it, it will get in your blood and it will never leave.
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 24641 posts, RR: 86
Reply 92, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 2989 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting EricR (Reply 90):
Out of all the airlines, F9 probably is the most difficult to track because their schizophrenic approach to adding and discontinuing routes.

Indeed.

But given Wall Street's reaction to the recently revised guidance for Frontier, it may only be a problem for airline folk.

The money men are cheering. I guess a.net will catch up,

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 91):
What is inaccurate, if you are talking about the .1 frequencies missing I think you are asking for a bit much.

I'm talking about a while list of things that I have queried. As one example, I'm still puzzled that - according to these threads - Frontier was dramatically reducing TTN-MCO in March.

It didn't happen.

But I've said I;m out of here - why not just let me go?  

mariner

[Edited 2013-02-20 10:38:06]


aeternum nauta
User currently offlineFlytravel From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 873 posts, RR: 0
Reply 93, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 2917 times:

Quoting jetbluefan1 (Reply 85):
dominates the highly profitable Northeast-Florida/Caribbean market

I'd be curious if B6 strengthens their FLL focus battling it with WN and other carriers on some fronts, with
PHL-FLL, PIT-FLL, BWI-FLL, ORD-FLL, CLT-FLL, MCO-FLL, MSY-FLL, and even ATL-FLL if B6 goes to ATL.

I can't gauge WN's interest in FLL if it'll be secondary to MCO and TPA for Florida to them. Certain routes like RDU-FLL and PHL-FLL have been downsized or cut, and SJU is still on FL.

Although B6 tried CLT-FLL before, CLT-S.Florida will be a monopoly with a AA/US merger. If the carrier can build around it at FLL, and have backtrack connections via FLL, it might have a better chance of succeeding when it tries it again.


User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 94, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 2715 times:

Quoting DTW.SCE" class="quote" target="_blank">PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 61):
DL will be operating a domestic 763 on ATL-DEN this summer.The schedule currently shows 1-738, 3-M90, 3-757, 1-763

Wow! When's the last time Denver has scheduled widebody sevice on Delta? It's been quite a while. So, how are the 76Q stations shaping up this summer. I'm expecting the usual suspects; ATL, MSP, DTW, SLC, LAX, LAS, SEA, PHX?, SEA, SAN, SFO any others? Seems like SJU will remain al 57s. Was quite a long run with the 763 down there doing ATL-SJU for close to a year.

Quoting point2point (Reply 64):
Kool..... DEN gets a DL wide body for the summer. Since it's a domestic, does anyone know where this bird continues to after it reaches ATL? I imagine that it's not flying outside of U.S. boarders.

Turn to another station that gets a 76Q ex ATL.

Quoting AVLAirlineFreq (Reply 81):
Wow, that's a long route on an RJ, even a CR9.

Mhmmm. MTJ has been operated by a CR9 for a while. ATL-STX also saw CR7/9 service and that's about 1600 miles.



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7343 posts, RR: 28
Reply 95, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 2696 times:

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 94):
Wow! When's the last time Denver has scheduled widebody sevice on Delta? It's been quite a while. So, how are the 76Q stations shaping up this summer. I'm expecting the usual suspects; ATL, MSP, DTW, SLC, LAX, LAS, SEA, PHX?, SEA, SAN, SFO any others? Seems like SJU will remain al 57s. Was quite a long run with the 763 down there doing ATL-SJU for close to a year.

DTW: (6)
SEA-2, SFO-1, LAX-3

MSP: (6)
SEA-2, SFO-1, LAX-1, LAS-1, ANC-1

ATL: (11)
SEA-1, SFO-3, LAX-2, SAN-1, SLC-3, DEN-1,

SLC: (3)
ATL-3

DTW, MSP, ATL, SEA, SFO, LAX, SAN, LAS, SLC, DEN, ANC


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32183 posts, RR: 72
Reply 96, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 2674 times:

Quoting jetbluefan1 (Reply 85):
and dominates the highly profitable Northeast-Florida/Caribbean market.

Florida-Northeast is not highly profitable.

Quoting jetbluefan1 (Reply 85):
and the way it has dissembled AA in the Caribbean is astounding (especially considering the obstacles associated with entering international markets).

AA is, by far, the dominating airline between the U.S. and Caribbean. It is very impressive that JetBlue has been able to drive AA largely out of JFK-Caribbean, but JetBlue is nowhere near AA's size in the Caribbean market, even moreso after the US merger.



a.
User currently offlineslcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3106 posts, RR: 0
Reply 97, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 2567 times:

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 94):
Wow! When's the last time Denver has scheduled widebody sevice on Delta? It's been quite a while. So, how are the 76Q stations shaping up this summer.

I think SLC is seeing 3 to ATL this summer.


User currently offlineFSDan From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 729 posts, RR: 2
Reply 98, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 2405 times:

Quoting DTW.SCE" class="quote" target="_blank">PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 95):
DTW: (6)
SEA-2, SFO-1, LAX-3

MSP: (6)
SEA-2, SFO-1, LAX-1, LAS-1, ANC-1

ATL: (11)
SEA-1, SFO-3, LAX-2, SAN-1, SLC-3, DEN-1,

SLC: (3)
ATL-3

DTW, MSP, ATL, SEA, SFO, LAX, SAN, LAS, SLC, DEN, ANC

Don't forget SLC-HNL x1! It looks like ATL-SLC is now 1 daily 763 as of today's electronic timetable update. MSP-ANC is great to see, and starts in July. In addition to the above there will be international 767s on LAX-HNL, ATL-SEA, ATL-LAX, JFK-SEA, JFK-LAX, ATL-DTW, and ATL-JFK. And, of course, the daily 77L on ATL-LAX.

I'm a big fan of DL's domestic widebody portfolio for this summer, and I hope it sticks and is not just an optimistic approximation (usually it seems that the schedules aren't firmed up until ~2 months out).



SEA SFO SJC LAX ONT SAN DEN IAH DFW OMA FSD MSP MSN MKE ORD DTW CVG MEM JAN BHM RSW ATL CLT BWI PHL LGA JFK MEX LIM KEF
User currently offlineEricR From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 1807 posts, RR: 1
Reply 99, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 2408 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 96):

Quoting jetbluefan1 (Reply 85):
and dominates the highly profitable Northeast-Florida/Caribbean market.

Florida-Northeast is not highly profitable.
.


Although I cannot speak to the profitability of Northeast-Florida, it is interesting to note that B6 has made Northeast-Caribbean very successful and profitable. Below is an excerpt from page 6 of their last annual report:

The growth of our route network since 2008 was primarily through the addition of new destinations in the Caribbean and Latin America, markets which have historically matured more quickly in terms of cash break-even and profitability than mainland flights of comparable distances. As of December 31, 2011, approximately 25% of our capacity was in the Caribbean and Latin America......

http://investor.jetblue.com/phoenix....html?c=131045&p=irol-reportsAnnual


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