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EasyJet Considers All-Boeing Fleet  
User currently offlinephxa340 From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 906 posts, RR: 1
Posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 20598 times:

Looks like EasyJet is leaning towards Boeing for their fleet replacement or is sending a very loud message to Airbus to lower their price.

EasyJet spokesperson says they are "dead serious" about shifting back to Boeing. Should be a fun competition to watch.

http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/585e2...91-00144feabdc0.html#axzz2LIGA0HKZ

46 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31436 posts, RR: 85
Reply 1, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 20572 times:
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Well easyJet did start with the Boeing 737 before moving to the A319-100 (and, later, A320-200).

Perhaps slot availability issues for the A320neo family is coming into play? The article states U2 wants to make a major expansion of their fleet and Boeing might have better availability in the timeframe U2 is looking at taking deliveries.


User currently offlinevfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 4062 posts, RR: 5
Reply 2, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 20379 times:

Every single-fleet type airline is always dead serious about shopping at the competition of its sole supplier. What else can they do to have some leverage at the negotiating table?

User currently offlinePlaneAdmirer From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 564 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 20209 times:

Ok.. There are three assumptions:

1. Stitch's about availability.
2. This is all about price.
3. They have had both planes and prefer Boeing. If this were the case, would they have gone public to get a better offer out of Airbus?


User currently offlineflyingcello From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2010, 165 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 20041 times:

Of course EZY are serious about being willing to buy Boeing, but the equation is simple...

Boeing price + conversion training

[Edited 2013-02-18 15:45:08]

[Edited 2013-02-18 15:46:14]

User currently offlinephxa340 From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 906 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 19988 times:

Quoting flyingcello (Reply 4):
Boeing price + conversion training

+ Availability


User currently offlinerotating14 From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 734 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 19774 times:

Quoting phxa340 (Reply 5):

     

That's the driver. This article basically says why Boeing would have this to lose.

http://www.khaleejtimes.com/biz/insi...ebruary331.xml&section=uaebusiness


User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20822 posts, RR: 62
Reply 7, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 19764 times:

Quoting phxa340 (Reply 5):
+ Availability

I'm failing to see the rush though, with such a young fleet of Airbus narrowbodies.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlinePolot From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 2371 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 19652 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 7):
I'm failing to see the rush though, with such a young fleet of Airbus narrowbodies.

Carriers such as U2 like turning over their fleet quickly so they can avoid having to deal with the increasing maintenance costs (which is also one of the reason why they negotiate so much for lower prices and revel in "raping" the manufacturers )


User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20822 posts, RR: 62
Reply 9, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 19595 times:

Quoting Polot (Reply 8):
Carriers such as U2 like turning over their fleet quickly so they can avoid having to deal with the increasing maintenance costs

Perhaps makes good sense. I guess I'm just used to carriers such as Southwest keeping their planes going until the very end of their useful life, in most cases.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlinerutankrd From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 3038 posts, RR: 8
Reply 10, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 19324 times:

I would think carefully about this story as it could well be the work of Stelios as he continues to feud with the board.

He has made several anti airbus statements in the last few weeks without the backing of the board.


User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13551 posts, RR: 100
Reply 11, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 19195 times:
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This was a 3 way competition per prior discussion:
http://www.aviationweek.com/Article....l/avd_11_21_2012_p01-01-519531.xml

But seems to be 2-way after a few months of review:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/n...os-with-plan-for-new-aircraft.html

Quoting phxa340 (Thread starter):
EasyJet spokesperson says they are "dead serious" about shifting back to Boeing. Should be a fun competition to watch.

I imagine it is all in the negotiations... Nothing wrong with trying to wring out a few million more out of a deal.   

Quoting phxa340 (Reply 5):
Quoting flyingcello (Reply 4):
Boeing price + conversion training

+ Availability

   vs. the same on the Airbus side. This would be a big deal for Boeing to win back...

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 7):
I'm failing to see the rush though, with such a young fleet of Airbus narrowbodies.

As already noted, U2 turns over their fleet quickly. There are also a number of fuel burn improvements coming into the fleet that with the right deal the lowest cost operation could be a rapid fleet turnover with the right financing.

Quoting rutankrd (Reply 10):
He has made several anti airbus statements in the last few weeks without the backing of the board.

I do not suspect him. I think that negotiations are enough. The incumbent always has an advantage. Airbus will be less aggressive due to their backlog.

Its looking as if sticking with GE engines might indeed pay off for U2...


Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently onlineRickNRoll From Afghanistan, joined Jan 2012, 900 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 19119 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 1):
Perhaps slot availability issues for the A320neo family is coming into play? The article states U2 wants to make a major expansion of their fleet and Boeing might have better availability in the timeframe U2 is looking at taking deliveries.

Such are the joys of a duopoly. In the end, neither Boeing and Airbus can lose, as long as they have a reasonably competitive product.


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31436 posts, RR: 85
Reply 13, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 18994 times:
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Quoting rutankrd (Reply 10):
I would think carefully about this story as it could well be the work of Stelios as he continues to feud with the board.

He has made several anti airbus statements in the last few weeks without the backing of the board.

The article states that Mr. Stelios is against a purchase from either OEM as he feels the current fleet is too large and modern enough so I would think that would preclude him from floating a story for a large order from Boeing.


User currently offlinephxa340 From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 906 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 18702 times:

Quoting rutankrd (Reply 10):
He has made several anti airbus statements in the last few weeks without the backing of the board.

The statements that claimed they were leaning towards Boeing came from a Board representative per the article ...


User currently offlineMCOflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 8691 posts, RR: 16
Reply 15, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 18635 times:

If they were to switch back to Boeing three things were to happen:

Immediate availibility
prices that equate to Ryanair's discount Boing gave them for their big orders
covering a portion of the training costs needed to train crews

If Boeing is willing to give in to these three, then this deal is Boeings. A couple million per a/c would equate to a lot of savings to an airline like U2. I have a feeling this artcle means one of two things: Its time for Airbus to lower their prices and up delivery schedules or loose a customer. At an airline like U2 its all about the dollar they save. Whoever saves them the most will win the order.

KH



Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
User currently offlinephxa340 From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 906 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 18554 times:

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 15):
Whoever saves them the most will win the order.

+ Boeing offering a very competitive product but yes ... this is probably Boeing's to lose.


User currently offlineAesma From Reunion, joined Nov 2009, 6960 posts, RR: 12
Reply 17, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 18454 times:

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 15):
prices that equate to Ryanair's discount Boing gave them for their big orders

Well I'm not sure "Boing" is ready to go there ever again.



New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlinevfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 4062 posts, RR: 5
Reply 18, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 16429 times:

Quoting rutankrd (Reply 10):

He has made several anti airbus statements in the last few weeks without the backing of the board.

IIRC, he is not anti-Airbus in principle, but does not like the addition of larger 320s capacity-wise and because he thinks that in the 180/190 seat category the Boeing 737-800 is the more economic product.


User currently offlinechiad From Norway, joined May 2006, 1188 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 16260 times:

I think EasyJet have found that it's less lucrative to be a customer next in line when combined backlog of a certain for two airframers is more than 3000 frames.
IMO neither Airbus nor Boeing really "don't need any more orders" and probably is less willing to lower their prices.
That doesn't mean that they will turn a huge customer like Easy Jet down. They wont of course but ...
 

[Edited 2013-02-19 03:21:04]

User currently offlineB777LRF From Luxembourg, joined Nov 2008, 1473 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 15600 times:

Quoting vfw614 (Reply 2):
Every single-fleet type airline is always dead serious about shopping at the competition of its sole supplier.

With the exception of the worlds largest single-fleet operator, of course, who has an almost religious affiliation with its sole supplier. Do they even have the phone number for Toulouse? Does Toulouse have theirs?



From receips and radials over straight pipes to big fans - been there, done that, got the hearing defects to prove
User currently offlineJerseyFlyer From United Kingdom, joined May 2007, 677 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 15557 times:

Late build 737 NGs may suit well at a low price - most of their flights are short so they don't need MAX range.

Many years ago I recall they acquired around 10 of the last 733s built in similar circumstances.


User currently offlinegr09 From Czech Republic, joined Jul 2008, 115 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 15459 times:

It's a part of negotiation. EasyJet has to show that they have no problem switching over to Boeing in case they get better price. And I'm sure they are ready to do it if the overall offer is better. That doesn't mean they are ruling out Airbus at this moment.

User currently offlinePugman211 From UK - England, joined Dec 2012, 122 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 15368 times:
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They are still recieving new deliveries of A320 aircraft at the moment, so when are they looking to renew the current fleet?

User currently offlineRomeoBravo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 15291 times:

Quoting phxa340 (Reply 16):
this is probably Boeing's to lose.
Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 15):
If Boeing is willing to give in to these three, then this deal is Boeings.

U2's public negotiating strategy is evidently very effective.


25 Post contains images skipness1E : Yeah they loved the last few so much they scrapped them
26 B777LRF : But all of their flights need to benefit from the 10-15% reduction in fuel burn a MAX or neo is promising, so what's that got to do with the price of
27 Post contains images scbriml : Huh? How exactly does Boeing offer 'immediate availability'. How is he 'not anti-Airbus' when he's been quoted in the last few days saying "I just wa
28 Aesma : I would add to the title that even if EZY were to order hundreds of Max, they wouldn't have an "all-Boeing fleet" before many years.
29 msp747 : Weren't their 737's brand new when they made the decision to go with Airbus? Seems like they don't care, as long as they get the best price on brand
30 GCT64 : Before I saw this thread, I read the FT article on my flight up from London. My understanding from both the article about fleet replacement and anothe
31 SASMD82 : So does it make sense to lower prices when the production line of the A32X is outsold onto 2020?
32 Post contains images dougbr2006 : I would have thought that Airbus may be in a better position to ramp up production than Boeing. One must remember that Airbus has two production assem
33 Post contains links chieft : Remembering the original Airbus deal easyjet negotiated, the surely consider a similar thing with switching back to Boeing. Then Airbus gave them a de
34 Polot : Remember it is not just about final assembly lines. All the final assembly lines in the world mean nothing if your suppliers can't increase their pro
35 MCOflyer : By that I mean offering slots within an allocated time frame. Sorry for not being more psecific. KH
36 JerseyFlyer : How many outstanding A320 family options do they currently have?
37 babybus : I don't know how Easyjet contracts work but by changing the aircraft type they may be able to shed pilots and start again with lower wages. I think th
38 goosebayguy : All this talk of Boeing having immediate availability is totally insane. They do not. Neither does Airbus and this has got me thinking. Airlines are e
39 rutankrd : Boat has sailed and UK has already lost the opportunity. Very soon EADS will have final assembly lines in Toulouse, Hamburg, Tianjin in China and Mob
40 goosebayguy : Yes but still its not enough. The UK makes perfect sense for the next plant.
41 kaitak : As well as financial numbers, they'll also need to look at performance; if - as I suspect - they are looking at the 737-8MAX and the A320NEO, then I t
42 sandyb123 : Yes but the major cost is skilled manpower which makes the Uk very expensive as an option. Given the recent failure with the BAE Systems deal I don't
43 Stitch : TLS cannot be expanded because of a an agreement between France and Germany on the A350XWB and XFW may be at capacity, but TJN and MOB can certainly
44 f4f3a : It seems like bombardier are out of the running which is a shame as I think the cs300 looks like it will be a great aircraft. I just can't see airbus
45 Post contains links fruitbat : Looks like Stelios is beginning to lose the plot on this one..... http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2...yjet-agm-stelios-boeing-dreamliner I don't qu
46 f4f3a : They are def not ordering 787s that's for sure. I don't really get his point as neither the max or the neo is a new plane So won't likely be delayed.
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