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Airbus Planes Not In Sequence.  
User currently offlinedoulasc From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 483 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 13983 times:

Airbus started out with the A300,then A310,A320,A330 and A340.Then after the A340 they jumped to the double decker A380. They skipped A350(now on the drawing board)A360 and A370 series. I wonder why the jumping around. Boeing and Mcdonnell Douglas never did that.

88 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7257 posts, RR: 52
Reply 1, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 13998 times:

I think it had to do with the number 8... good luck in Chinese?? (I may be completely wrong on that.) But notice the recent 8s-- 747-8I/F, A380-800 (not 100,) 787-8 (not -1, or actually, -100 like it should have been, grr Boeing, way to slap all of our OCDs in the face)


Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20322 posts, RR: 63
Reply 2, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 13986 times:

This is how I remember it:

http://www.csair-a380.com/en/history.html

Quote:

It was chosen because the number 8 resembles the double-deck cross section, and is a lucky number in some Asian countries where the aircraft was being marketed.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlinebristolflyer From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 2270 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 13926 times:

I read once (on here probably) that the 8 represents a cross section of the 2 decks - makes sense to me. Besides, the A380 is so much bigger than everything else in Airbus's range that it had to be some radically different!


Fortune favours the brave
User currently offlineamerican 767 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 3648 posts, RR: 12
Reply 4, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 13827 times:

Quoting doulasc (Thread starter):
Mcdonnell Douglas never did that.

They did, if you talk about subtypes. They made the DC-9-10 thru 50, and then the DC-9-80 which is known as the MD-80. But if you notice, there was never a DC-9-60 or DC-9-70.



Ben Soriano
User currently offlineCXfirst From Norway, joined Jan 2007, 2927 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 13794 times:

Quoting doulasc (Thread starter):
Boeing and Mcdonnell Douglas never did that.

Also, not 100% true for Boeing either.

Although the Boeing 720 was at one stage of development known as 717, it never entered service as 717.

So, Boeing skipped 717, and only filled the gap with a later model.

-CXfirst



From Norway, live in Australia
User currently offlinebluewave 707 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 3152 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 13731 times:

The original Boeing 717-100 was the civilian designation for the KC-135.

That is why the MD-95 was given the 717-200 designation, after Boeing acquired McDonnell-Douglas.



"The best use of your life will be to so live your life, that the use of your life will outlive your life" -- D Severn
User currently offlineoldeuropean From Germany, joined May 2005, 2026 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 13522 times:

Against the latin : "Nomen est omen" - we have a saying in German:

"Namen sind Schall und Rauch" - names are sound and smoke


- and especially in the bizzare world of PR, you shouldn't take names too seriously.   

[Edited 2013-02-18 23:14:25]


Wer wenig weiss muss vieles glauben
User currently offlineSYDSpotter From Australia, joined Oct 2012, 151 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 13506 times:

Quoting oldeuropean (Reply 7):
- and especially in the bizzare world of PR, you shouldn't take names too seriously

Yes especially when you have names like A350XWB and 737MAX floating around   



319_320_321_332_333_388 / 734_738_743_744_762_763_772_773_77W
User currently offlineB747forever From Sweden, joined May 2007, 16997 posts, RR: 10
Reply 9, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 13454 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 2):
This is how I remember it:

http://www.csair-a380.com/en/history.html

Quote:It was chosen because the number 8 resembles the double-deck cross section, and is a lucky number in some Asian countries where the aircraft was being marketed.

That is just utterly ridiculous. As if any airline decides to buy an aircraft based on the model number.



Work Hard, Fly Right
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20322 posts, RR: 63
Reply 10, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 13367 times:

Quoting B747forever (Reply 9):
As if any airline decides to buy an aircraft based on the model number.

Then why did Boeing leap to 747-8 as the next sequence for the 747, or pass over other choices to make the introductory model of the 787 be the 787-8? It was even said that the Boeing house colors for the 747-8 were changed from blue to appeal to the Asian market.

Is it any coincidence that UA flight 888 is routed PEK-SFO? Or that UA flight 88 is routed PEK-EWR?



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineB747forever From Sweden, joined May 2007, 16997 posts, RR: 10
Reply 11, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 13307 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 10):

Then why did Boeing leap to 747-8 as the next sequence for the 747, or pass over other choices to make the introductory model of the 787 be the 787-8? It was even said that the Boeing house colors for the 747-8 were changed from blue to appeal to the Asian market.

Is it any coincidence that UA flight 888 is routed PEK-SFO? Or that UA flight 88 is routed PEK-EWR?

Please, do not tell me that you seriously believe that if the A380 or the 787 were namedthe A370 and 797 that no Asian carriers would buy them.

Also, do you really believe that anyone booking a flight from PEK to the US chooses one carrier over the other if the flight number includes an 8?



Work Hard, Fly Right
User currently offlineSpeedbird128 From Pitcairn Islands, joined Oct 2003, 1648 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 13292 times:

Quoting B747forever (Reply 11):
Please, do not tell me that you seriously believe that if the A380 or the 787 were namedthe A370 and 797 that no Asian carriers would buy them.

Also, do you really believe that anyone booking a flight from PEK to the US chooses one carrier over the other if the flight number includes an 8?

It might seem all stupid to you.

However, in the real world, marketing will try and capitalise on *ANY* advantage possible, and if it means pushing the number 8 in the Asian markets, they will (even if its based on superstition).

Just to show you how real it is, many planes don't have a row 13, and many buildings don't have a floor 13.



A306, A313, A319, A320, A321, A332, A343, A345, A346 A388, AC90, B06, B722, B732, B733, B735, B738, B744, B762, B772, B7
User currently offlineB747forever From Sweden, joined May 2007, 16997 posts, RR: 10
Reply 13, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 13251 times:

Quoting Speedbird128 (Reply 12):
However, in the real world, marketing will try and capitalise on *ANY* advantage possible, and if it means pushing the number 8 in the Asian markets, they will (even if its based on superstition

I know it is a nice way to market your product, but it will have no meaning whatsoever on the decision of buying an aircraft that costs hundreds of millions.



Work Hard, Fly Right
User currently offlineSpeedbird128 From Pitcairn Islands, joined Oct 2003, 1648 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 13218 times:

Quoting B747forever (Reply 13):
but it will have no meaning whatsoever

How do you *know* that?



A306, A313, A319, A320, A321, A332, A343, A345, A346 A388, AC90, B06, B722, B732, B733, B735, B738, B744, B762, B772, B7
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20322 posts, RR: 63
Reply 15, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 13216 times:

Quoting B747forever (Reply 11):
Please, do not tell me that you seriously believe that if the A380 or the 787 were namedthe A370 and 797 that no Asian carriers would buy them.

No of course not, but it shows a deference which could be useful in developing relationships, which could lead to orders. Why else go through the trouble?

Quoting Speedbird128 (Reply 12):
However, in the real world, marketing will try and capitalise on *ANY* advantage possible, and if it means pushing the number 8 in the Asian markets, they will (even if its based on superstition).

  



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineflyingalex From Germany, joined Jul 2010, 1013 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 13170 times:

Quoting B747forever (Reply 13):
I know it is a nice way to market your product, but it will have no meaning whatsoever on the decision of buying an aircraft that costs hundreds of millions.

While I agree with you that the benefit in terms of actual aircraft orders is probably questionable, there is one crucial point you're forgetting:

It doesn't cost Airbus or Boeing anything to somehow work an 8 into the model number or variant number, so they'd be stupid not to try.



Public service announcement: "It's" = "it is". To indicate posession, write "its." Looks wrong, but it's correct grammar
User currently offlineB747forever From Sweden, joined May 2007, 16997 posts, RR: 10
Reply 17, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 13171 times:

Quoting Speedbird128 (Reply 14):

How do you *know* that?

Do all Asian carriers operate the 737-800 instead of the A320-200?



Work Hard, Fly Right
User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 13103 times:

^ and everything that came before the 738 dating back to the 1960s, that didnt include 8 in it, what BS, I'd find it very insulting as an Asian, its making them appear like gullible fools with all this, PIA launched PK 888 to Urumqi in 2005 that service didnt not last more than six months, so much for the luck bit.

User currently offlinestrfyr51 From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 788 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 12981 times:
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Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 10):

the UA 8xx flight numbers were a holdover from Pan AM, UA805 was for YEARS SFO-HKG, Until the merger where it now is UA869,


User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20322 posts, RR: 63
Reply 20, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 12975 times:

Quoting strfyr51 (Reply 19):
the UA 8xx flight numbers were a holdover from Pan AM

I realize that, but what you're saying doesn't address the point of UA maximizing its use of the number 8 for Beijing-originating flights.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlinestarrymarkb From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2011, 127 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 12965 times:

I always thought of it as Double A340...

Also originally the A330 was to be the Quad and A340 the twin


User currently offlineokAY From Finland, joined Dec 2006, 648 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 12787 times:

Quoting B747forever (Reply 9):

I find it silly, too. As I find silly that some airlines do not have row 13. But when passengers, not just one or two, but in masses start creating problems refusing to sit on row 13, you as an airline make adjustments. Also, if you notice you can sell more planes by inserting a specific number on the type-name, heck you'd be stupid not to do so! It is amazing how many of us believe in superstition and magic etc.


User currently offlineautothrust From Switzerland, joined Jun 2006, 1545 posts, RR: 9
Reply 23, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 12013 times:

If i recall correctly the A370 is reseverd for the next Gen A320.


“Faliure is not an option.”
User currently offlineExL10Mktg From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 51 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 11655 times:

Quoting american 767 (Reply 4):
They did, if you talk about subtypes. They made the DC-9-10 thru 50, and then the DC-9-80 which is known as the MD-80. But if you notice, there was never a DC-9-60 or DC-9-70.

Just because they were never built (or marketed) doesn't mean they didn't exist in an engineering study and were subsequently passed over for the -80 version. I don't know if that was the case but it's very possible. At Lockheed, the Constellation models built (049, 649, 749, 1049, 1649 and waaaay before my time) would appear to be jumping in sequence but I have seen documentation of the variants in between. For various reasons they were never produced but once the model number was assigned, that was it. In fact, 4 model 1249s were built for the military as a trial for fitting turboprops to the Connie although they were only known by their Air Force or Navy names and were never marketed commercially. One very cool looking plane though!


User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20322 posts, RR: 63
Reply 25, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 12061 times:

Quoting ExL10Mktg (Reply 24):
Just because they were never built (or marketed) doesn't mean they didn't exist in an engineering study and were subsequently passed over for the -80 version.

The 80 was named as such due to its introduction in 1980.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 29656 posts, RR: 84
Reply 26, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 12066 times:
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Quoting B747forever (Reply 9):
As if any airline decides to buy an aircraft based on the model number.
Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 10):
Then why did Boeing leap to 747-8 as the next sequence for the 747, or pass over other choices to make the introductory model of the 787 be the 787-8?

Boeing had announced the 747-500X and 747-600X in 1996 and also floated a 747-700X concept at that time. So, arguably, 747-800X was the next number in the sequence for concepts.

Boeing have stated that they chose 747-8 to leverage the link to the 787 (in terms of engine generation).

As to why the 787 launched with the 787-8 and 787-9 instead of the 787-2 and 787-3, I believe part of it was based on the projected range when the project was launched: the 787-3 had a nominal range beyond 3,000nm, the 787-8 beyond 8,000nm and the 787-9 close to 9,000nm.


User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20322 posts, RR: 63
Reply 27, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 12122 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 26):
the 787-3 had a nominal range beyond 3,000nm, the 787-8 beyond 8,000nm and the 787-9 close to 9,000nm.

Oh, that could be. Did Airbus use the same logic when naming the first version of the A380 the -800, as well as starting with -800 for the A350, when they'd in past used -100 and -200 for the sequential series numbering?



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineRara From Germany, joined Jan 2007, 2009 posts, RR: 2
Reply 28, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 11985 times:

Regarding the number 8 fixation because of Asian superstitions: the problem is that businesses went completely over the top with what would otherwise be a legitimate issue.

Will Chinese people prefer a flight with the number UA888 over a flight with the number DL446? Yes, absolutely. Will Chinese companies buy even a single more 787-8 than they would have a 787-1? No, definitely not. But tell that to marketing geniuses with their indefinite wisdom.

Having said all that, we just registered our new car with a 888 number plate, and my fiancee is mightily excited.  



Samson was a biblical tough guy, but his dad Samsonite was even more of a hard case.
User currently offlinefutureatp From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 220 posts, RR: 0
Reply 29, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 11408 times:

The DC-10-40 was supposed to be the DC-10-20. It was changed to -40 as a request from Northwest. Its been a long time since I read the article but I believe Northwest thought that the -20 designation made it seem inferior to the -30.

User currently offlineskipness1E From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 3073 posts, RR: 1
Reply 30, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 11072 times:

It was flight tested as the DC10-20, prototype N141US was however delivered as a DC10-40!

User currently offline135mech From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 393 posts, RR: 4
Reply 31, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 11066 times:
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Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 1):
I think it had to do with the number 8... good luck in Chinese?? (I may be completely wrong on that.) But notice the recent 8s-- 747-8I/F, A380-800 (not 100,) 787-8 (not -1, or actually, -100 like it should have been, grr Boeing, way to slap all of our OCDs in the face)



The reason Boeing jumped to the -8's like the 747-8i/F and the 787-8 and stopping the sequential numbering was in part due to the new "way" of numbering...it's for the capable range of the aircraft now, and not the series numbers anymore. -8 means it's capable of up to 8,000nm and the -9 (not 900) means up to 9,000nm. The 737's were developed before this change was made and they kept the sequence numbers since they were already up to a -900 series.

As Stitch adds too:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 26):
Boeing had announced the 747-500X and 747-600X in 1996 and also floated a 747-700X concept at that time. So, arguably, 747-800X was the next number in the sequence for concepts.

Boeing have stated that they chose 747-8 to leverage the link to the 787 (in terms of engine generation).

As to why the 787 launched with the 787-8 and 787-9 instead of the 787-2 and 787-3, I believe part of it was based on the projected range when the project was launched: the 787-3 had a nominal range beyond 3,000nm, the 787-8 beyond 8,000nm and the 787-9 close to 9,000nm.
Quoting CXfirst (Reply 5):
Also, not 100% true for Boeing either.

Although the Boeing 720 was at one stage of development known as 717, it never entered service as 717.

So, Boeing skipped 717, and only filled the gap with a later model.
Quoting B747forever (Reply 9):
That is just utterly ridiculous. As if any airline decides to buy an aircraft based on the model number.



After reading in my Boeing 707 books, when United REFUSED to buy any "707", the next model available was the new version which was named the 720, so that United wouldn't be accused of recanting their words.

The 717 DID exist but was a military variant only (KC-135 aka 717-148). When Boeing bought/took over McDonnell Douglas,
they renamed the MD-95 (released that same year) the 717-200, as the missing commercial 717.

Quoting futureatp (Reply 29):
The DC-10-40 was supposed to be the DC-10-20. It was changed to -40 as a request from Northwest. Its been a long time since I read the article but I believe Northwest thought that the -20 designation made it seem inferior to the -30.



I read that same book, and they did rename it for specifically that reason!  

Regards,
135Mech


User currently offlinegr8circle From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 3069 posts, RR: 4
Reply 32, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 10756 times:

Quoting B747forever (Reply 11):
Please, do not tell me that you seriously believe that if the A380 or the 787 were namedthe A370 and 797 that no Asian carriers would buy them.

Also, do you really believe that anyone booking a flight from PEK to the US chooses one carrier over the other if the flight number includes an 8?
Quoting B747forever (Reply 13):
I know it is a nice way to market your product, but it will have no meaning whatsoever on the decision of buying an aircraft that costs hundreds of millions.

You're thinking too clinically and logically....as pointed out, in the real world of marketing, anything that makes the customer "feel good" is worth doing......no one's saying that Asian airlines would not have brought the aircrafts or taken the flights if there wasn't an 8 in it, but it just adds to the feel good sensation.....

In the western world, as pointed out, people make enough of a sensation of the number 13, so let's not scoff at Asian traditions.....

[Edited 2013-02-19 11:32:51]

User currently offlinebrilondon From Canada, joined Aug 2005, 4055 posts, RR: 1
Reply 33, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 9201 times:

Quoting B747forever (Reply 11):
Also, do you really believe that anyone booking a flight from PEK to the US chooses one carrier over the other if the flight number includes an 8?

Well actually they do, I have Chinese clients in Hong Kong who tell me that the flight numbers are important to the elders of their society who are quite a bit more superstitious. The rather have an 8 in their address and think it is lucky to live on 8th street/ave, so yes the Chinese are superstitious.



Rush for ever; Yankees all the way!!
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20322 posts, RR: 63
Reply 34, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 8940 times:

Quoting brilondon (Reply 33):
Quoting B747forever (Reply 11):
Also, do you really believe that anyone booking a flight from PEK to the US chooses one carrier over the other if the flight number includes an 8?

Well actually they do, I have Chinese clients in Hong Kong who tell me that the flight numbers are important to the elders of their society who are quite a bit more superstitious.

There must be some value to it. I also found:

CX888 HKG-YVR-JFK
AC88 PVG-YYZ
KL888 used to be HKG-AMS (currently KL890)



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 29656 posts, RR: 84
Reply 35, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 8898 times:
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Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 34):
There must be some value to it. I also found:

CX888 HKG-YVR-JFK
AC88 PVG-HKG-AMS (currently KL890)

And I would not be surprised if both CX888 and KL888 have been operated in the past with 747-400 equipment even though the number 4 is considered unfavorable in a number of Asian cultures.  

[Edited 2013-02-19 14:12:11]

User currently offlinecmf From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 36, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 8837 times:

Quoting 135mech (Reply 31):
The reason Boeing jumped to the -8's like the 747-8i/F and the 787-8 and stopping the sequential numbering was in part due to the new "way" of numbering...it's for the capable range of the aircraft now, and not the series numbers anymore. -8 means it's capable of up to 8,000nm and the -9 (not 900) means up to 9,000nm. The 737's were developed before this change was made and they kept the sequence numbers since they were already up to a -900 series.

So the 787-10 will have up to 10,000 nm range?


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 29656 posts, RR: 84
Reply 37, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 8776 times:
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Quoting cmf (Reply 36):
So the 787-10 will have up to 10,000 nm range?

If your payload is just two pilots and full tanks...  


Clearly, this is no longer Boeing's criteria for numbering since we know the 737 MAX's will not fly 7,000-9,000nm and while the 777-8 should clear 8,000nm, the 777-9 won't clear 9,0000nm.


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24061 posts, RR: 23
Reply 38, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 8602 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 34):
There must be some value to it. I also found:

CX888 HKG-YVR-JFK
AC88 PVG-YYZ
KL888 used to be HKG-AMS (currently KL890)

And AC's daily HKG-YVR is AC8. They inherited that number from CP


User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7257 posts, RR: 52
Reply 39, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 8547 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 35):
And I would not be surprised if both CX888 and KL888 have been operated in the past with 747-400 equipment even though the number 4 is considered unfavorable in a number of Asian cultures.  

Yes but the flight number is changed a lot easier than aircraft type.

I'm sure the 8 thing isn't huge in decisions, but I could definitely see it as a subliminal thing. Can you imagine if they came out with the Boeing 666-13?

Also, what is the thing with "4"? Doesn't it sound like "death" in Mandarin? I had a Chinese friend say something like that long ago



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineneutrino From Singapore, joined May 2012, 588 posts, RR: 0
Reply 40, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 5975 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 39):
Also, what is the thing with "4"? Doesn't it sound like "death" in Mandarin? I had a Chinese friend say something like that long ago

Not only in Mandarin but in the dialects of Cantonese, Hokkien (actually Minnanyu), Teochew (Chaozhou) and a host of other minor vernacular. It simply sound like "death" as 8 is akin to "prosper".



Potestatem obscuri lateris nescitis
User currently offlinecha747 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 781 posts, RR: 6
Reply 41, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 5883 times:

Quoting 777way (Reply 18):
^ and everything that came before the 738 dating back to the 1960s, that didnt include 8 in it, what BS, I'd find it very insulting as an Asian, its making them appear like gullible fools with all this, PIA launched PK 888 to Urumqi in 2005 that service didnt not last more than six months, so much for the luck bit.

LOL...being Pakistani, you are NOT the Asian being referred to (neither am I being of Indian origin).

The Chinese are a little more superstitious about things than the subcontinental variety and Westerners.

Wikipedia has an interesting entry for those of you interested in WHY certain numbers are lucky and unlucky. Decide for yourselves why an airline may or may not place an order or assign certain flight numbers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numbers_in_Chinese_culture



You land a million planes safely, then you have one little mid-air and you never hear the end of it - Pushing Tin
User currently offlineos787 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 9 posts, RR: 0
Reply 42, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 5720 times:

Quoting brilondon (Reply 33):
Well actually they do, I have Chinese clients in Hong Kong who tell me that the flight numbers are important to the elders of their society who are quite a bit more superstitious. The rather have an 8 in their address and think it is lucky to live on 8th street/ave, so yes the Chinese are superstitious.

The same is true for phone numbers. In my company it's easy to determine the important people of our Beijing office without looking at job titles, because they have the phone numbers with most 8s.


User currently offlinespeedygonzales From Norway, joined Sep 2007, 706 posts, RR: 0
Reply 43, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 5431 times:

Quoting os787 (Reply 42):
The same is true for phone numbers. In my company it's easy to determine the important people of our Beijing office without looking at job titles, because they have the phone numbers with most 8s.

The company i work for has (completely by chance) front desk phone number xx88xx88. The sales and marketing guys say that Chinese customers are very impressed by out phone number, and think that we paid good money for it.



Las Malvinas son Argentinas
User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7254 posts, RR: 17
Reply 44, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 5259 times:

Quoting B747forever (Reply 9):
That is just utterly ridiculous.

But no more ridiculous than :

The Air Canada PVG to YYX flight is AC88

The Air Astana flight between PEK and ALA is KC888

The Cathay Pacific flight from HKG to JFK is CX888

The KLM HKG-AMS flight is KL888

The United Airlines PEK-SFO flight is UA888

All Singapore Airlines flights between SIN and the PRC and Korea start SQ8 . . .,

The Beijing Olympics Opening Ceremony started at 8 minutes and 8 seconds past 8 o'clock on the 8th day of the 8th month in, yes, 2008.

The Chengdu telephone number made up only with the figure 8 was sold for over US $ 270,000 while a Hangzhou man offered his car number plate, "A88888", for sale at almost US $160,000.

But of course it is not only the Chinese who are suspicious. Amongst many airlines that have a Row 12 and a Row 14 but no Row 13 on their aircraft are SK. Ridiculous?

If you want a successful business in countries with a different culture to that of your homeland it is advisable to understand their culture. The Chinese word for 8, "pinyin", is the same as their word for "wealth". And the Chinese are a suspicious people.


User currently offlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 11918 posts, RR: 25
Reply 45, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 5176 times:

Quoting os787 (Reply 42):
The same is true for phone numbers. In my company it's easy to determine the important people of our Beijing office without looking at job titles, because they have the phone numbers with most 8s.

I wonder if they bicker over IP addresses too?

According to the below, L3 Communications owns 8.x.x.x ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_assigned_/8_IPv4_address_blocks

According to my machine, google uses 8.8.8.8 for google-pubic-dns-a.google.com so the Chinese must be envious...



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24061 posts, RR: 23
Reply 46, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 5032 times:

Quoting VV701 (Reply 44):
But of course it is not only the Chinese who are suspicious. Amongst many airlines that have a Row 12 and a Row 14 but no Row 13 on their aircraft are SK. Ridiculous?

I would call that superstitious, not suspicious. SK is far from the only European carrier without a row numbered 13. About the only carriers I've been on with a row 13 are British carriers. It's very rare to find a row numbered 13 in continental Europe.

In North America I believe the only major carrier that used to skip row 13 on their aircraft was CO. Not sure if that's changed since the merger with UA.

It's also very rare to find a hotel in continental Europe and in many other parts of the world with a floor numbered 13.


User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 47, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 4909 times:

Quoting cha747 (Reply 41):

Yes, i know you werent referring to our lot and I meant that East Asians should find it insuting, but I guess they dont.


User currently offlineSpeedbird128 From Pitcairn Islands, joined Oct 2003, 1648 posts, RR: 2
Reply 48, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 4765 times:

Quoting Revelation (Reply 45):
pubic-dns

  

Quoting 777way (Reply 47):
I meant that East Asians should find it insuting, but I guess they dont.

Just out of interest, why should they find it insulting? Just because you think they should?



A306, A313, A319, A320, A321, A332, A343, A345, A346 A388, AC90, B06, B722, B732, B733, B735, B738, B744, B762, B772, B7
User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 49, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 4728 times:

^ yes I think its insulting, anyone with an iota of intelligence can fingure out what I mean exactly by that.

User currently offlineSpeedbird128 From Pitcairn Islands, joined Oct 2003, 1648 posts, RR: 2
Reply 50, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 4732 times:

Quoting 777way (Reply 49):
anyone with an iota of intelligence can fingure out what I mean exactly by that.

Well pardon me. Must be dizzy up there where you live.

Have you ever been to China? I have found they appreciate the (what some think is token) usage of 8's as they are superstitious.



A306, A313, A319, A320, A321, A332, A343, A345, A346 A388, AC90, B06, B722, B732, B733, B735, B738, B744, B762, B772, B7
User currently offlinetravelavnut From Netherlands, joined May 2010, 1535 posts, RR: 7
Reply 51, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 4707 times:

Quoting 777way (Reply 49):
yes I think its insulting, anyone with an iota of intelligence can fingure out what I mean exactly by that.

I think of myself as a person with at least an iota of intelligence and I really have no idea why this would be in any way insulting. Maybe you care to explain?

American and some western european hotels and aircraft don't have a 13th floor or row 13, Chinese give the number 8 a special positive meaning. So what? That's a cultural fact and stating it is not insulting...



Live From Amsterdam!
User currently offlineSpeedbird128 From Pitcairn Islands, joined Oct 2003, 1648 posts, RR: 2
Reply 52, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 4595 times:

Quoting travelavnut (Reply 51):
Chinese give the number 8 a special positive meaning. So what? That's a cultural fact and stating it is not insulting...

  

What's probably insulting to the Chinese, is saying their beliefs are stupid. THAT is likely to be insulting.

In any event, the marketing departments of many businesses, not just Airbus or Boeing, use the 8 to try and garner more business. It's not a be-all to winning an order, but if it helps in any little way, believe you me, a marketing department will use it.



A306, A313, A319, A320, A321, A332, A343, A345, A346 A388, AC90, B06, B722, B732, B733, B735, B738, B744, B762, B772, B7
User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 53, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4097 times:

Some posts that clarified my explanations have been removed wont repeat much, the fact is the China has purchased B and A planes with no issues dating back to 1980s and earlier, they have never considered them unlucky, and they are not adding 8 to any of their own produced aircraft, so these two manufacturers playing this silly gimik is insulting to their intelligence just as I would feel if say Heinz started selling their food stuff with a green label and cresent and star image to lure muslims, because I buy Heinz products for its reputed name they need not patronize me using religious or tradional images of my culture, suckers might love it, are they tragetting markets with that in mind? so should it for the Chinese that something they had no issues with is now being marketed using their religious and cultural traits, why? is a third mystery manufacturer not using 8 threatening B and A sales and luring Chinese buyers? would they have not bought a 797-9 or and A390-900? how many orders has the 747-8 secured from China and havent two Chinese carriers dropped the 787-8 combined order, despite the lucky number attached to attract them, it didnt help them stick with the order, the aircrat would have brought in "pinyin" or wealth, quite obviously these companies did not fall fo that lucky number game, instead they went for A330-300 or 200.

User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7254 posts, RR: 17
Reply 54, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 3770 times:

Quoting 777way (Reply 53):
so should it for the Chinese that something they had no issues with is now being marketed using their religious and cultural traits, why?

You seem to be missing the point.

Some - not all - Scandinavians would prefer not to fly in Row 13 on an aircraft. Some - not all - French - would prefer not to stay in Room 13 or on Floor 13 in a hotel. So SK and most other European airlines do not have a Row 13 on their aircraft. And many French and other European hotels do not have rooms (or floors) numbered '13'. But this does not stop Scandinavians, French or other Europeans flying with BA or other British airlines who do have a Row 13 on their aircraft or staying in hotels with a Room 13 or a Floor 13.

Originally Henry Ford offered his customers any coloured car "as long as it is black". Today all car manufacturers offer a wide range of different colours in order to try to meet the very different colour preferences of all their potential customers. If some Chinese prefer to buy or use a product with the number '8' in its name (because the word for '8' and 'wealth' are the same) and some manufacturers respond by producing a product that includes '8' in its name, this is very little different to producing a red car. If there is a group of potential buyers who would prefer to buy a red car to one of any other colour, why should Ford or any other company not manufacture red cars? After all preferring red cars is little more than a cultural trait. So the reason for making a red car is little different to making a product with '8' in its name.


User currently offlineneutrino From Singapore, joined May 2012, 588 posts, RR: 0
Reply 55, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 3614 times:

Quoting VV701 (Reply 54):
(because the word for '8' and 'wealth' are the same)


Correction: they are homophones, not synonyms.
The sounds are similar but not the words.



Potestatem obscuri lateris nescitis
User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7254 posts, RR: 17
Reply 56, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 3505 times:

Quoting neutrino (Reply 55):
Correction: they are homophones, not synonyms.
The sounds are similar but not the words.

Thanks. I cannot read Chinese, But I guess that the reason the spelling in Latin script, "pinyin", is the same is simply because they are homophones.

Funnily enough there is also a homophone for "eight" in the English language. "Ait" is a small island, usually in a river.


User currently offlineSemaex From Germany, joined Nov 2009, 806 posts, RR: 2
Reply 57, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 3288 times:

Quoting VV701 (Reply 56):
Funnily enough there is also a homophone for "eight" in the English language. "Ait" is a small island, usually in a river.

Another homophone:

Why is Seven afraid of Eight? ...

If you don't know then your children will  

In all seriousness. If Airbus, Boeing, BMW or Motorola find a way to make just a tiny percentage of costumers (who may be superstitious) happy and wanting to buy their toys then they will do so, unless it hurts the sales for other costumers. But since there doesn't seem to be a culture that has a massive antiphathy agains the Number 8, the case seems clear.

If I have two car makers, both only offering one car and both cars are exactly what I need, then I will go for the one which can offer me a green coloured car. Not because everybody is supposed to like green cars. But because I like the colour.
If both manufacturers cannot offer me a green car that doesn't mean though that I will not buy a car at all when in reality I simply need for wheels to drive to work.
Logical?



// You know you're an aviation enthusiast when you look at your neighbour's cars and think about fleet commonality.
User currently offlineneutrino From Singapore, joined May 2012, 588 posts, RR: 0
Reply 58, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 3214 times:

Quoting VV701 (Reply 56):
Thanks. I cannot read Chinese, But I guess that the reason the spelling in Latin script, "pinyin", is the same is simply because they are homophones.


My pleasure.
Still, further correction is in order: Their pinyin is also different: eight is "ba" whilst the lucky sound is "fa".
And while I am at it, "fa" is actually not wealth (which is "cai") but to the effect of prosper.
Mandarin structure is completely different from English and without going too deep into it (which I am incapable of anyway), characters can be paired or strung together with interesting combinations.
"fa" & "cai" when put side by side means to get rich, hence some misunderstanding about the word "fa".

Anyway, we need not lose sleep over it as each word could have different meanings altogether.  



Potestatem obscuri lateris nescitis
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20322 posts, RR: 63
Reply 59, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 3084 times:

And in this vein, HA has just announced its flight schedule for its new service to Taiwan. The TPE-HNL flight number is: 808.  

HA Announces Taipei Flight Schedule (by HALFA Feb 26 2013 in Civil Aviation)



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 60, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 2938 times:

Quoting Semaex (Reply 57):

What happened to the BMW 8 series?

I dont think Chinese are falling for this as far as the 787 cancelled order shows, also Hong Kong airlines A380 might go too and not confirm the 768 MoU either.

I think 8 is designated for asia fights? I know PIA far east flights start with 8.


User currently offlineSemaex From Germany, joined Nov 2009, 806 posts, RR: 2
Reply 61, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 2757 times:

Quoting 777way (Reply 60):
What happened to the BMW 8 series?

Replaced by the 6-Series Coupé and 7-Series.

Quoting 777way (Reply 60):
and not confirm the 768 MoU either.

Oh lala now Boeing is going crazy on the number!
  Typo I guess.

Quoting 777way (Reply 60):
I think 8 is designated for asia fights? I know PIA far east flights start with 8.

Still surprised?



// You know you're an aviation enthusiast when you look at your neighbour's cars and think about fleet commonality.
User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7254 posts, RR: 17
Reply 62, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 2655 times:

Quoting 777way (Reply 60):
I think 8 is designated for asia fights?

No. Here are some of BA's flights to Asia:

BA5/6: to/from NRT
BA7/8: to/from HND
BA9/10: to/from BKK
BA11/12: to/from SIN
BA15/16: to/from SIN
BA25/26: to/from HKG
BA27/28: to/from HKG
BA35/36: to/from MAA
BA38/39: to/from PEK

Amongst others, flights to and from India and PVG are in the BA1xx series. There are absolutely no BA operated flights to Asia that start with the number '8'.

Quoting 777way (Reply 60):
I know PIA far east flights start with 8.

Well, what a surprise! But how could they exploit Chinese culture in that way? BA do not. They simply run numerically on a geographic basis.

BA8x flights are to Canada, not to Asia.

BA8xx flights are short haul flights to Denmark, Poland, the Czech Republic, Hungary, the Russian Federation, Romania and Bulgaria and not to Asia.

None of the BA flights coded BA8xxx are operated by BA main line. However all domestic and European flights operatedout of LCY by their subsidiary, BA CityFlyer, are in this series. So are those operated by BA's two short-haul franchise partners, Sun-Air of Scandinavia out of BLL and Comair out of JNB. Most of the flights operated by BA's code share partners, predominantly those within in the USA operated by AA, are also in this series. Certainly they do include code share flights operated by CX out of HKG and cargo code share flights operated by KE to and from ICN. But these CX and KE flights are clearly in the BA8xxx series because they are code share flights, not because HKG and ICN are in Asia.

Each airline decides independently how to number their flights. Many, including PK, look to take the small advantage of numbering flights to areas with large ethnic Chinese populations using the number '8'. Others do not.


User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 63, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 2583 times:

Quoting Semaex (Reply 61):
Quoting 777way (Reply 60):What happened to the BMW 8 series?
Replaced by the 6-Series Coupé and 7-Series.

no i'm asking was it hit in China? why didnt they continue it for that region should have been a hot seller to keep the line active and bring in newer versions?

Quoting VV701 (Reply 62):
Quoting 777way (Reply 60): I know PIA far east flights start with 8.
Well, what a surprise! But how could they exploit Chinese culture in that way?

Shame on them if true, I thought ICAO were to blame, anyways PK 888 to Urumqi flopped in five months, so much for lucky 8 attracting customers.

[Edited 2013-02-28 11:34:48]

User currently offlineSpeedbird128 From Pitcairn Islands, joined Oct 2003, 1648 posts, RR: 2
Reply 64, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 2546 times:

Wow the concept of marketing is really lost on some people...   

I wonder why the 777 next version is slated as an -8X.



A306, A313, A319, A320, A321, A332, A343, A345, A346 A388, AC90, B06, B722, B732, B733, B735, B738, B744, B762, B772, B7
User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 65, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 2527 times:

I expect the Chinese to be wiser and order the aircraft for its worthiness and not some gimmik, just as they did the 777-200/300 and prior to that the 707, 747SP/200/400, 757-200, 767-200/300 and 737-200/300/400/500/600/700 and even 800 as it was a natural progression of the number / variants and not linked to any belief system or culture or tradition, plus all the Airbus products without 8 in them.

User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20322 posts, RR: 63
Reply 66, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 2513 times:

Quoting 777way (Reply 65):
I expect the Chinese to be wiser and order the aircraft for its worthiness and not some gimmik

And that's all it is, a gimmick. It's not anything to make an international incident over.

Quoting 777way (Reply 65):
and prior to that the 707, 747SP/200/400, 757-200, 767-200/300

You do realize the fallacy in your statement, yes? China was a closed market for decades. It has only opened to major outside investment, and its native companies allowed to purchase foreign goods on a commercial scale, within the past 20 or so years. China is now a huge economy dependent upon its international ties. It's only natural that the major manufacturers are lining up to sell China everything possible, using every trick in the book to help influence their sales.

Quoting Speedbird128 (Reply 64):
Wow the concept of marketing is really lost on some people..

  



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 67, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 2473 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 66):
Quoting 777way (Reply 65):and prior to that the 707, 747SP/200/400, 757-200, 767-200/300
You do realize the fallacy in your statement, yes? China was a closed market for decades. It has only opened to major outside investment, and its native companies allowed to purchase foreign goods on a commercial scale, within the past 20 or so years. China is now a huge economy dependent upon its international ties. It's only natural that the major manufacturers are lining up to sell China everything possible, using every trick in the book to help influence their sales.

Hunh? thats what I said, when they opened up they started buying Boeing and from the 80s Airbus, neither of the two lured them with such gimmiks, China hasnt risen overnight that they are resorting to this, like luring some people who arent aware or bakward that this might work on them, its current status is what it was last decade and in better part of the 90s, I dont recall China being anything else than what it is now in those past 17 years more years, they placed huge orders then as well without the obvious patronising.

If I were Chinese I would think these companies to be stupid playing this game and find it insulting that they think us to be gullible all of a sudden, are the Chinese not getting it whats happening? its hilarious 40 years later after China started rising 30 since the 80s when it actually began, they now begin this silly game, when the chinese are fullyaware of the happenings in the world, its not 1970s, that this might have pleased simple minds that were just opening up to non-communist societies.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 66):
It's not anything to make an international incident over.

it might be appearing to you that way, I'm just pointing out the stupidity of it all,, would be interesting though if it were to happen, I mean if they had never bought B and A i could understand, but whats being done now is amazing, a certain culture still chosing to treat others like fools.just as they did in colonial times.


User currently offlineSpeedbird128 From Pitcairn Islands, joined Oct 2003, 1648 posts, RR: 2
Reply 68, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 2434 times:

Quoting 777way (Reply 67):
If I were Chinese
Quoting 777way (Reply 67):
I'm just pointing out the stupidity
Quoting 777way (Reply 67):
a certain culture still chosing to treat others like fools
Quoting 777way (Reply 67):
just as they did in colonial times.

Chip off the old block?

I have *never* heard a chinese person rant like you have about a culture to which you don't belong.



A306, A313, A319, A320, A321, A332, A343, A345, A346 A388, AC90, B06, B722, B732, B733, B735, B738, B744, B762, B772, B7
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20322 posts, RR: 63
Reply 69, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 2429 times:

Quoting 777way (Reply 67):
they placed huge orders then as well without the obvious patronising

Companies go out of their way to make sure that their products aren't offensive to other cultures, so would you say that that's patronizing as well?

It might be what you consider to be 'huge initial orders' which raised the profiles of Asian customers, to the point where companies felt it would be worthwhile to make sure their products were as appealing as possible to them, in a manner which wasn't offensive to their other customers.

Quoting 777way (Reply 67):
I'm just pointing out the stupidity of it all

Stupid to make one's product or service appealing? I would say you don't have a fairly large understanding of how marketing works.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 70, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 2409 times:

Quoting Speedbird128 (Reply 68):
I have *never* heard a chinese person rant like you have about a culture to which you don't belong.

I'm just talking common sense based on looking back from the 1980s and their earlier dealigns with these two companies, I also have no chips, my ancestors were European colonisers themselves from one side of the family, despicable fact.


User currently offlineRara From Germany, joined Jan 2007, 2009 posts, RR: 2
Reply 71, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 2291 times:

Quoting Speedbird128 (Reply 68):
I have *never* heard a chinese person rant like you have about a culture to which you don't belong.

Perhaps they're too polite.   But I can confirm that the sentiment exists. The Chinese are quite amused that Westerners now fall over themselves in delivering one number-8 combination after the other.



Samson was a biblical tough guy, but his dad Samsonite was even more of a hard case.
User currently offlinetravelavnut From Netherlands, joined May 2010, 1535 posts, RR: 7
Reply 72, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 2286 times:

Djeez, are we still debating if it is offensive using the number 8 marketing wise? Really 777way, give it a rest man, or take some marketing courses and educate yourself.

Quoting Rara (Reply 71):
The Chinese are quite amused that Westerners now fall over themselves in delivering one number-8 combination after the other.

At least they are amused and not offended  



Live From Amsterdam!
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7257 posts, RR: 52
Reply 73, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2186 times:

Quoting travelavnut (Reply 72):

Djeez, are we still debating if it is offensive using the number 8 marketing wise?

   Really, it's a gimmick... just like having the multiple flags or airline logos on the side, or making concept liveries of potential airlines. Had the flags/logos/concept art not been included, I'm sure the world would be the same. But it's marketing and overall image... maybe subliminally, changing it from the 787-4 to the 787-8 may for some reason be better. Maybe on the very off chance there actually is a Chinese CEO that is that superstitious and actually favors the 787 over the A350. I mean, didn't GWB say he went to Iraq after "God told him to?"

In the end, making it -8 instead of -1 is FREE, and it MAY help a teeny tiny bit, so why not?



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 74, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2041 times:

Quoting travelavnut (Reply 72):
Djeez, are we still debating if it is offensive using the number 8 marketing wise? Really 777way, give it a rest man, or take some marketing courses and educate yourself.
Quoting travelavnut (Reply 72):
Djeez, are we still debating if it is offensive using the number 8 marketing wise? Really 777way, give it a rest man, or take some marketing courses and educate yourself.

Quoting Rara (Reply 71):The Chinese are quite amused that Westerners now fall over themselves in delivering one number-8 combination after the other.
At least they are amused and not offended

Marketeing courses that are meant to fool people in this manner and make fools of the companies using these ploys?

Are you still not getting it?

. the China they are pulling this stupid marketing gimmik on, is the same China that bought their products since the past 30 years without them using any good luck charms as a lure.

. China hasnt opened up last year or even in the last decade, they are not buying B & A for the first time, B is selling them since 1970s and A since 1980s.

. China was as progressive and prosperous in 1990s as it is today, that they're pulling this stunt on them now 30 years later is hilarious, China is fully worldly wise.

What B & A are doing now should have been done in the 70s or 80s at best maybe the 90s latest, as they say that ship or boat has sailed a long time back, and its not like B & A lost out to other manufacturers nor are there any competitors that threaten their sales because they were confident in their offerings, so whats the issue now?

Airline liveries and branding being compared to this situation is nothing short of foolish, yes there are bad liveries out there that are a turn off for av-enthusiats thats about it.


User currently offlinegrimey From Ireland, joined Jun 2005, 449 posts, RR: 5
Reply 75, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1962 times:

Quoting cha747 (Reply 41):
Wikipedia has an interesting entry for those of you interested in WHY certain numbers are lucky and unlucky. Decide for yourselves why an airline may or may not place an order or assign certain flight numbers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numbers_in_Chinese_culture

and no one here noticed this about the number 748

"748: "七四八" In mandarin this number is pronounced "qī sì bā". If these numbers are stated in certain tones, it has a meaning which roughly translates into: "Why don't you go die?" "去死吧" This combination is more commonly used as an insult to others, or rather, an indirect death threat. Youngsters can jokingly tease each other by saying "你去死吧!". Depending on the mood, place and way of saying this sentence it can confer meanings ranging from joking to insulting or provoking."

It wouldn't surprise me if Airbus or Boeing had put in the 8 in certain models in order to try to get customers in Asia, just look at certain products around you and see what different names they are called in different countries in order to get customers.

Opel cars are called Vauxhall in the UK
Burger King is called Hungry Jacks in Australia (I think this could be a legal naming rights thing)
Air Crash Investigation is called Mayday in Ireland (I don't know why) but we would get ACI on the National Geographic channel and Mayday on the Irish national broadcaster RTE

As for the flight numbers being 8 well I say the airlines took a gamble at putting their numbers at 8 in order to try and get a Chinese market, its sort of like how the flight number 1 would be the flagship flight of the airline.


User currently offlineSpeedbird128 From Pitcairn Islands, joined Oct 2003, 1648 posts, RR: 2
Reply 76, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1915 times:

Quoting 777way (Reply 74):
Are you still not getting it?

Quite the contrary   



A306, A313, A319, A320, A321, A332, A343, A345, A346 A388, AC90, B06, B722, B732, B733, B735, B738, B744, B762, B772, B7
User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 77, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1894 times:

Read again.

Quoting 777way (Reply 74):
Are you still not getting it?

. the China they are pulling this stupid marketing gimmik on, is the same China that bought their products since the past 30 years without them using any good luck charms as a lure.

. China hasnt opened up last year or even in the last decade, they are not buying B & A for the first time, B is selling them since 1970s and A since 1980s.

. China was as progressive and prosperous in 1990s as it is today, that they're pulling this stunt on them now 30 years later is hilarious, China is fully worldly wise.

What B & A are doing now should have been done in the 70s or 80s at best maybe the 90s latest, as they say that ship or boat has sailed a long time back, and its not like B & A lost out to other manufacturers nor are there any competitors that threaten their sales because they were confident in their offerings, so whats the issue now?


User currently offlineSpeedbird128 From Pitcairn Islands, joined Oct 2003, 1648 posts, RR: 2
Reply 78, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1879 times:

Quoting 777way (Reply 77):
Read again.

I read it. So what?

Reading it again most certainly isn't going to make me suddenly "get" your hatred of marketing practices. Quite the contrary, it wold probably just make me post something I will regret.

Marketing is exactly that. Marketing. Its to make the concept of something appeal to another.
If it works, then great - something gained. If it doesn't, nothing lost. If it was offensive to those involved parties, rest assured it would't be a secret.

But its tiring about hearing about how YOU think another culture should feel, calling every marketing department a fool or foolish.

Bye-bye now.



A306, A313, A319, A320, A321, A332, A343, A345, A346 A388, AC90, B06, B722, B732, B733, B735, B738, B744, B762, B772, B7
User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 79, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1873 times:

Bye??? but I'm not adressing you exclusively here and this isnt even you thread.

Didnt you also say you wouldnt be posting in this topic a few posts ago, that post has been deleted so cant confirm its number, what brought you back? to have the last word as you thought i wouldnt repond after your reply in which you said you were through with this discussion, yet you have posted atleast four times since.

And why is it bothering you if I am speaking out on behalf of another culture, isnt that my perogative? maybe some chinese members here will realise the folly of this wonderful marketing thats come to them 30 years late.

[Edited 2013-03-02 08:55:18]

User currently offlinetravelavnut From Netherlands, joined May 2010, 1535 posts, RR: 7
Reply 80, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1848 times:

777way, do yourself a favor and let this rest. You're not convincing anybody and you're making a bit of a fool of yourself. We get it, you don't like these marketing practices, but the majority here sees no problem. So instead of just running around in circles, please, give it a rest...


Live From Amsterdam!
User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7254 posts, RR: 17
Reply 81, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 1789 times:

Quoting 777way (Reply 74):
Are you still not getting it?

Well you are certainly not getting it.

Boeing manufactured the 377 Stratocruiser and then the 707, the 727, the 737, the 747, the 757, the 767, the 777 and finally the 787. Indeed you have to go back to the before World War 2 over 70 years ago to find a new Boeing commercial airliner without a '7' in its designation. That was the Boeing 314 Clipper of 1938. And excepting the 720, a derivative of the 707, all post war types have at least two '7's in their name.

Why?

Well '7' has always been regarded as a 'lucky' number in the western world ever since the days of Pythagoras over 2,500 years ago! But I am sure that this never entered anybody at Boeing's head, or did it? Similarly the missing row '13' in many airlines' aircraft and the use of '8' by PK and so many other airlines for flights to Chinese destinations must be purely coincidence. It certainly has nothing to do with either the ICAO or IATA.

Even today many passengers are nervous of flying. One can point out to them exactly how safe air travel is, but to little avail.. Be sure that airlines like BA do not provide what BA call "Flying with Confidence" courses for nervous passengers for no reason. Note that the last such BA course was on 9 February, the one previous to it on 10 November last. So there is clearly quite a demand with an A319 being used for the flights that are part of the course. But I guess you would equate such courses as an effort "to fool people", that potential passengers should all "be confident in [the airlines'] offerings" and that the likes of BA are "stupid playing this game" to borrow just a few of your own phrases. The relevance of such courses is that, like the numbers "7" and "8" in both aircraft designations and airline flight numbers, they are all attempts to address potential end customers' needs and, more importantly, their fears.


User currently offlinejbmitt From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 543 posts, RR: 2
Reply 82, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 1721 times:

I seem to recall DL flying flight#s 717, 727, 737, 747, 757, 767, 777 to and from SEA. I just checked and it doesn't appear these numbers are in service anymore. I can understand the confusion of the flight number and aircraft type.

Can anyone confirm this?


User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20322 posts, RR: 63
Reply 83, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 1706 times:

DL737 flew JFK-SEA, but the last one was 2 years ago, operated by a 757.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL737



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineTWA772LR From United States of America, joined Nov 2011, 1137 posts, RR: 1
Reply 84, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 1686 times:

Quoting VV701 (Reply 81):
Boeing manufactured the 377 Stratocruiser and then the 707, the 727, the 737, the 747, the 757, the 767, the 777 and finally the 787. Indeed you have to go back to the before World War 2 over 70 years ago to find a new Boeing commercial airliner without a '7' in its designation. That was the Boeing 314 Clipper of 1938. And excepting the 720, a derivative of the 707, all post war types have at least two '7's in their name.

Weren't Boeings 7-series because the prop passenger planes were 3xx, and missles, space craft, and other applications were designated with a 5xx or 6xx?



Я говорю по-русский. :)
User currently offlineVV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 7254 posts, RR: 17
Reply 85, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 1635 times:

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 84):
Weren't Boeings 7-series because the prop passenger planes were 3xx, and missles, space craft, and other applications were designated with a 5xx or 6xx?

But which is the horse, which the cart? Or, put anoher way, why did Boeing use "7" as first number in its designation for jet airliners as opposed to any alternative digit?

Also why did their last piston engined airliner, the Stratocruiser, have a double-seven in its "377" designation?

And why is the last number of every post World War 2 Boeing airliner a "7"?

And going back to the (Chinese) "8", why didn't Boeing start their 787 sub designation with a "1" instead of an "8". What happened to "1" through "7"?


User currently offlineSpeedbird128 From Pitcairn Islands, joined Oct 2003, 1648 posts, RR: 2
Reply 86, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 1474 times:

Quoting VV701 (Reply 85):
And going back to the (Chinese) "8", why didn't Boeing start their 787 sub designation with a "1" instead of an "8". What happened to "1" through "7"?

Because an -8 designation is 8 times more awesome than a -1 LOL
Or maybe its marketing?



A306, A313, A319, A320, A321, A332, A343, A345, A346 A388, AC90, B06, B722, B732, B733, B735, B738, B744, B762, B772, B7
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24061 posts, RR: 23
Reply 87, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 1374 times:

Quoting jbmitt (Reply 82):
seem to recall DL flying flight#s 717, 727, 737, 747, 757, 767, 777 to and from SEA. I just checked and it doesn't appear these numbers are in service anymore.

AC's current "Boeing" flight numbers and aircraft type:

AC707 LGA-YYZ E-175
AC717 LGA-YYZ E-190
AC720 YYZ-LGA E-190
AC727 LGA-YYZ E-175
AC737 YYZ-SFO A319/320
AC747 LGA-YUL E-175
AC757 YYZ-SFO A319/320
AC767 EWR-YYZ E-175
AC777 YYZ-SAN A319
AC787 YYZ-LAX A320

Reminds me that AC's DC-9s had fleet identification numbers ("FIN") in the 700-series, so their DC-9-32 fleet included aircraft bearing the numbers 707, 717, 720, 727, 737 and 747.


User currently offlinelonghauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 4755 posts, RR: 43
Reply 88, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 1362 times:

When AC first flew to Asia, it was their LHR-BOM-SIN flight. And it was originally AC858. This made sense, as AC856 was the earlier YYZ-LHR flight, and this new flight was occasionally an extension of the later YYZ-LHR flight AC858.

Apparently there was some resistance to the 5 in the flight number. So ... the flights were renumbered as AC888 and AC889. In fact marketing even wanted some notice of the change, and this aircraft was so titled:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Marc Hasenbein



Just to make sure everyone knew the "unlucky" 5 was gone, and there were lots of 8s!!



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
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