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VS Likely Joining SkyTeam  
User currently offlineGonzalo From Chile, joined Aug 2005, 1988 posts, RR: 2
Posted (1 year 7 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 11357 times:

Virgin Atlantic COO Julie Southern has given the clearest indication yet that the two airlines could also become alliance partners. “I suspect in due course you may see us joining SkyTeam,” Southern said in an interview to the Financial Times.


http://atwonline.com/airline-finance...m-membership-after-delta-deal-0218

Rgds.
G.


80 Knots...V1...Rotate...Gear Up...DC-3 / EMB-110 / Fairchild-227 / Ab318-19-20 / B732 / B763
30 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8376 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (1 year 7 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 11319 times:
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Is this really a surprise ? With Delta buying 49% this is just one more step in Virgin Integration into Delta's world.

User currently offlineual777uk From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2005, 3356 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (1 year 7 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 11199 times:

No real surprises here..........if VS turned around and went with Star, then i would be staggered.....as would i suspect be DL.

User currently offlineBongodog1964 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 3591 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (1 year 7 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 11078 times:

Reading the linked article,with references to "doing whats best for the business" and "keeping options open" it comes down to what I said on another thread, SRB controls 51% and VS will head in the direction he wants it to go in. All DL can do is strap themselves in and enjoy the ride !

User currently offlinetoobz From Finland, joined Jan 2010, 785 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 7 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 10952 times:

Well yes obviously he controls majority stake. But SRB is not a stupid man. I think he realizes at this point that he needs DL as much as DL needs VS. With the powerhouse that BA/AA are in the London market, I believe he can't run this alone anymore. I think joining ST is the way to go.

User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13134 posts, RR: 100
Reply 5, posted (1 year 7 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 9705 times:
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I suspect DL had a few talks with the executives of VS, including SRB, before buying the stake.

Quoting toobz (Reply 4):
Well yes obviously he controls majority stake. But SRB is not a stupid man. I think he realizes at this point that he needs DL as much as DL needs VS.

   VS will not survive on its own. The Virgin airlines are more than VS too.

With the AA/US merger, the time a "Virgin Alliance" would be enough has come and gone. With VS very unlikely to join OW, that really leaves Skyteam as *A is not a good fit (too diluted). I suspect SRB was pushing for Skyteam for a bit and the US/AA merger was the last straw.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlinepeanuts From Netherlands, joined Dec 2009, 1438 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (1 year 7 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 8857 times:

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 3):
All DL can do is strap themselves in and enjoy the ride !

Don't think so. That "ride" is more and more thought out of for Virgin, as opposed to by Virgin...



Question Conventional Wisdom. While not all commonly held beliefs are wrong…all should be questioned.
User currently offlinedcajet From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 432 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (1 year 7 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 8621 times:

What a joke... of course they will be joining SkyTeam.

Quote:
In an official statement, Virgin said: “Joining SkyTeam is not a condition of the joint venture with Delta, although Virgin Atlantic is evaluating its options in this regard. The airline has always kept alliance membership under review but has been clear that it needs to be in the best interests of the business.”

Seeing that being a stand alone airline has not yielded the desired results, and with DL controlling 49% of Virgin Atlantic, as well as being the singing voice @ ST... This is a marriage of convenience.

And for its own sake, I hope that Virgin America can join ST as well. Being a San Franciscan, we love our hometown airline, but without some form of Delta intervention I am not sure how much longer can Virgin America keep plugging along. It has been hemorrhaging cash since day one and continues to pick the low hanging fruit - without a clear strategy other than an awesome customer experience. Clearly the latter has not been enough - after a few years since launch, its market share @ SFO is stagnant at 9% while the United juggernaut controls 5 times that figure - 46% to be precise - FY 2012 figures, source San Francisco International Airport.



"Unattended children will be given espresso and a free kitten"
User currently offlineASA From Bangladesh, joined Dec 2010, 733 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (1 year 7 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 7646 times:

Would the other Virgin brand airlines ... esp. Virgin America ... follow suit?

If yes, that could a lot of interesting code-share options, especially in SEA with AS on the ground.


User currently offlinevhtje From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2009, 373 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 7 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 7439 times:
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Quoting ASA (Reply 8):
Would the other Virgin brand airlines ...

What about Virgin Australia? They seem much, much cosier with *A, with their links to NZ and SQ, who between them I understand own about 25% of VA.

Interesting times...


User currently offlinejumpjets From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2012, 825 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 7 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 7241 times:

Doesn't V Australia have links with Etihad who in turn seem to be cosying up with AF/KL, so another possible little link between the Virgin brand and Skyteam.

User currently offlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10432 posts, RR: 14
Reply 11, posted (1 year 7 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 7098 times:

Quoting jumpjets (Reply 10):
Doesn't V Australia have links with Etihad who in turn seem to be cosying up with AF/KL, so another possible little link between the Virgin brand and Skyteam.

Am I wrong or doesn't Virgin Australia have a JV with DL, already?



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineBA0197 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2011, 313 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (1 year 7 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 7033 times:

WelI, what a surprise  

Although, I truly don't know what the alliance is to gain from this. This is to more or less help Virgin gain some connecting pax in other Skyteam hubs. That's about it I'm afraid. Virgin is really just to small to make a significant impact to the alliance (someone quoted 3% of LHR slots). People will still be routed via CDG for connections for example, and their LGW and MAN ops won't even see almost traciable differences in people's flying patterns (given DL/AF/KL? does not fly to LGW)

Do tell me if I'm missing anything.


User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5582 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (1 year 7 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 6933 times:

Quoting mayor (Reply 11):
Am I wrong or doesn't Virgin Australia have a JV with DL, already?

Yes they do. VA have 4 JVs: DL (SkyT), NZ (Star), SQ (Star), EY (unaligned)

Realistically, I think that VA are more interested in being the "AS of the South" than tying themselves down with anyone in particular.

That said, Star would make more sense than Sky, as UA could relatively easily replace DL in the VA network, while NZ and SQ would be harder to replace in SkyT.



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlineBongodog1964 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 3591 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (1 year 7 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 6818 times:

Quoting BA0197 (Reply 12):
Do tell me if I'm missing anything.

Personally I think you've summed up the impact very well, others however will not agree.


User currently offlineBestWestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7152 posts, RR: 57
Reply 15, posted (1 year 7 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 6725 times:

Quoting BA0197 (Reply 12):
Although, I truly don't know what the alliance is to gain from this. This is to more or less help Virgin gain some connecting pax in other Skyteam hubs. That's about it I'm afraid. Virgin is really just to small to make a significant impact to the alliance (someone quoted 3% of LHR slots). People will still be routed via CDG for connections for example, and their LGW and MAN ops won't even see almost traciable differences in people's flying patterns (given DL/AF/KL? does not fly to LGW)

BA0197 - you forgot the other end of these routes. VS is strong in London, but probably lacks traffic and yield on the other end of the route system - if DL feeds MCO or MIA for example with twenty five pax a day - that incremental revenue is significant. This will help VS in Asia for example - where Skyteam is strengthening.

DL can also feed the US network of VS in a meaningful way.

It makes Skyteam the second alliance in London
It establishes a presence on the London to Asia route map



The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently offlinerwsea From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 3105 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (1 year 7 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 4258 times:

Quoting BA0197 (Reply 12):

WelI, what a surprise  

Although, I truly don't know what the alliance is to gain from this. This is to more or less help Virgin gain some connecting pax in other Skyteam hubs. That's about it I'm afraid. Virgin is really just to small to make a significant impact to the alliance (someone quoted 3% of LHR slots). People will still be routed via CDG for connections for example, and their LGW and MAN ops won't even see almost traciable differences in people's flying patterns (given DL/AF/KL? does not fly to LGW)

Do tell me if I'm missing anything.

I don't think you're missing anything at all. All this really does is give Delta passengers more options to get to London, and possibly allow London-based passengers more connecting options within the US to smaller cities. Really no benefit for the alliance as all of the available connections are already possible via AMS, CDG, JFK, ATL, MXP, etc.

I think VS would have made more sense for Star, simply given the fact that Star has so many more European partners that serve LHR. Since VS doesn't have any shorthaul ops, the flights to FRA/MUC/HAM/OSL/CPH/ARN/ZRH/VIE/LIS/WAW/IST/ZAG/ATH/TXL/DUS, etc. on Star carriers could almost serve as a defacto shorthaul hub. Only a few key holes are missing there - primarily AMS, MAD, BRU, CDG, and BCN.

SkyTeam really only offers connections to CDG/AMS/FCO/LIN/SVO.


User currently offlineDeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9435 posts, RR: 14
Reply 17, posted (1 year 7 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 4005 times:

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 3):
All DL can do is strap themselves in and enjoy the ride !

  It so funny how some of yall think that they are acting like kids. This is a company, they talk about things and want to do whats best for the investors. SRB doesn't just wake up and do things.

Quoting ual777uk (Reply 2):
as would i suspect be DL.

nope. If Star was even possible then SQ would still own 49%. Its pretty amazing, Delta got its deal put int place, in writing, before they bought 49%. Amazingly, SRB didn't wake up yesterday and go "eh well I guess I'll join SkyTeam"

Quoting mayor (Reply 11):

Am I wrong or doesn't Virgin Australia have a JV with DL, already?

Yes.



yep.
User currently offlinenickofatlanta From Australia, joined May 2000, 1488 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (1 year 7 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 3838 times:

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 13):

I don't believe The EY and SQ relationships are JVs.


User currently offlineGCT64 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2007, 1398 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (1 year 7 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3726 times:

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 15):
if DL feeds MCO or MIA for example with twenty five pax a day - that incremental revenue is significant.
DL can also feed the US network of VS in a meaningful way.

But this all happens already with interlining agreements ... a few years ago, I flew VS LHR-JFK, DL JFK-MCO on a VS ticket. Very recently I flew VS LHR-JFK, AA JFK-BOS on a VS ticket (despite the AA-BA JV etc., and worth noting that this was substantially cheaper than any BA/AA option) and I wasn't the only person at LHR checking in for a VS-AA connection in JFK.

I know that the perception here on a.net is that being a member of an alliance generates more connecting traffic, but does it REALLY generate that much more traffic than existing interline agreements?



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User currently offlineBongodog1964 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 3591 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (1 year 7 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3715 times:

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 17):
Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 3):
All DL can do is strap themselves in and enjoy the ride !

It so funny how some of yall think that they are acting like kids. This is a company, they talk about things and want to do whats best for the investors. SRB doesn't just wake up and do things.

Ever had any involvement with business tycoons such as SRB ?

I once had the misfortune, their involvement in the most trivial matters can at times seem bewhildering, meanwhile vital matters can drift for months as they are presently engrossed in other parts of their empire.

Virgin doesn't have any outside investors, SRB and Virgin are one and the same. No chance of decisons being voted down by shareholders, no embarassing questions at the company AGM, no Warren Buffets pulling strings. Its SRB's to do what he wants with


User currently offlineDeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9435 posts, RR: 14
Reply 21, posted (1 year 7 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 3129 times:

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 20):

Virgin doesn't have any outside investors, SRB and Virgin are one and the same. No chance of decisons being voted down by shareholders, no embarassing questions at the company AGM, no Warren Buffets pulling strings. Its SRB's to do what he wants with

To a point. What happens if Delta dumps its investment?
and Im not saying SRB doesn't have control, I'm saying he isn't a child. He wants to make money and he is going to do what he has to do to make money. Delta wants him to make money. They are going to do what they have to do to get VS making money. Its a business, not playing house in the back yard.



yep.
User currently offlineBongodog1964 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 3591 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (1 year 7 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 3031 times:

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 21):
To a point. What happens if Delta dumps its investment?
and Im not saying SRB doesn't have control, I'm saying he isn't a child. He wants to make money and he is going to do what he has to do to make money. Delta wants him to make money. They are going to do what they have to do to get VS making money. Its a business, not playing house in the back yard.

I'm sure SQ thought this way 10 years ago, then what happened ?

With the money SRB made last week from selling his stake in Virgin Media, he could probably send them a cheque today. He's in all probability reached the stage where money isn't the only consideration any more, so rich that he can do whatever he wants within reason.


User currently offlineanstar From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2003, 5244 posts, RR: 6
Reply 23, posted (1 year 7 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 2974 times:

[/quote]

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 22):
I'm sure SQ thought this way 10 years ago, then what happened ?

SQ basically lost interest the moment they bought their 49% stake. The market has also changed alot in those years.

DL is going to be a far more active shareholder than SQ ever was - the JV is proof of that from the get go.


User currently offlinetoobz From Finland, joined Jan 2010, 785 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 7 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 2862 times:

Bongo...the world and aviation industry is a lot more different than it was 10yrs ago, i.e. Joint ventures with BA/AA. Add to that, that SQ doesn't cooperate much with anyone. They are very much a go alone airline. DL is not. That's why this is so different. As you can see..VS is talking about joining an alliance. Very different situation at hand here.

25 BestWestern : Yes it does. Look at the DL - KL feed in AMS and the DL - AF feed in CDG. It also generates a higher quality, rather than lowest cost feed due to the
26 Hooverman : I agree with the way you're thinking. An eccentric entrepreneur like SRB has his own agenda from time to time.
27 EddieDude : People on this forum seem to think that DL is buying the SQ stake without Branson being on board. Firstly, it is likely that he had preemptive rights
28 Post contains links delta2ual : I don't think DL is looking for connections (they have those at AMS & CDG). With VS, they are looking for more access to the "single most importan
29 tullamarine : DL is weaker than SQ, NZ and EY at VA because the latter three are all significant shareholders in the company. DL holds no equity in VA.
30 delta2ual : I don't think that matters nowadays. There are many airlines in one alliance who are forging partnerships with airlines of other alliances or who are
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