behramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 5196 posts, RR: 47
Reply 4, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 16715 times:
so this means MXP to be increased to 4 daily flights and JFK to triple daily.
The timings are within an hour of EK 93/94 service and it seems like EK is on a mission to get 1 carrier to suspend its own MXP services (in order to boost its own market share) which in all likely hood could end up being TG from the Asia side and DL on the MXP-JFK sector (it can instead offer code share on AZ's own service). AZ suspending PEK will definitely help EK too out of the Italian market place.
Interesting to see how MXP is being expanded to 4 daily whilst FCO is still stuck with double daily only.
On the trans-atlantic sector, they will be going after the J and F class pax big time along with cargo to boost yields.
Now lets wait and see if QR will follow suit as per their earlier statements and launch DOH ATH JFK.
HB-IWC From Indonesia, joined Sep 2000, 4591 posts, RR: 70
Reply 5, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 16597 times:
A third daily JFK via Europe had been in the making for quite a while, but it was earlier rumored that this service would pass through MAN instead.
Quoting behramjee (Reply 4): so this means MXP to be increased to 4 daily flights and JFK to triple daily
I do not believe MXP will go 4 daily. At least one of the current services will be stopped to allow for this new service. I personally believe that the EK093/094 service will no longer be operated and that EK will ultimately aim to operate the new EK205/206 with A388.
behramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 5196 posts, RR: 47
Reply 6, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 16553 times:
Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 5): I do not believe MXP will go 4 daily. At least one of the current services will be stopped to allow for this new service. I personally believe that the EK093/094 service will no longer be operated and that EK will ultimately aim to operate the new EK205/206 with A388.
i hope so too as that would make perfect sense as 4 daily MXP would be way too much capacity...A380 trans-atlantic will definitely help woo the premium pax towards EK as well
mesaflyguy From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 3780 posts, RR: 8
Reply 8, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 16218 times:
I personally hope they go with the T7 instead of the whalejet for a few reasons:
1. They are going up against three other airlines, so I don't know how large the market actually is to handle that many seats, especially if they put a 380 on the route.
2. I was just thinking to myself last week how I'll miss seeing the most elegant livery on a T7 coming over my home into JFK as I leave the house in the morning. Hopefully we will still get it, just in the afternoon this time.
Against popular belief, my username has nothing to do with the airline. \______(---)______/
ipodguy7 From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 539 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 16106 times:
Is this a preemptive strike to keep SQ off of MXP-NYC (an often brought-up rumor here on anet to replace their soon ending SIN-EWR non-stop)? Either way, very interesting to see a second Middle East carrier start Europe-NYC flights (after QR announced DOH-ATH-JFK).
migair54 From Spain, joined Jun 2007, 2550 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 16062 times:
Why did they get the 5th freedom rights if the route is already serve by multiple operators?? I can understand a route like BCN-GRU or HAM-JFK because nobody operates the route before, but I don´t understand this one...
leftyboarder From Turkey, joined Apr 2008, 740 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 15699 times:
This is indeed the Italian gov't shooting their own foot. With AZ in financial trouble, the last thing they need is EK taking over traffic from them on the North Atlantic. I could understand BEG-JFK or BUD-JFK on EK as there is no current direct service or a home carrier able to start one, but MXP-JFK on EK seems absurd with all the direct service already. And it's not as if EK can't fly this direct and need a stop en route.
Thomas_Jaeger From Switzerland, joined Apr 2002, 2452 posts, RR: 26
Reply 14, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 15694 times:
Quoting LH422 (Reply 11): I was wondering about the HAM-JFK flight, too. Does anyone know why it was allowed and why it was from HAM and not FRA or MUC? Would they be allowed to restart it again?
The UAE were granted these traffic rights from Germany before Emirates even had any such ambitions. I believe they still hold the traffic rights to operate via Germany to any other country that allows them to.
Quoting FCAFLYBOY (Reply 12):
I'm all for enterprise don't get me wrong, bud sad to think I will probably by flying LGW-TFS on an EK A380 soon ( no doubt at least 10 x daily too)
Highly unlikely will operate many intra-EU services in addition to MLA-LCA.
Swiss aviation news junkie living all over the place
FSDan From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 1010 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 14745 times:
Quoting behramjee (Reply 4): DL on the MXP-JFK sector (it can instead offer code share on AZ's own service).
I would actually expect AZ to drop MXP-JFK rather than DL. AZ has so few long haul flights from MXP, while DL has a massive TATL hub at JFK. DL also uses their more premium-heavy 764 on the JFK-MXP route. I'm not sure if AZ has a decent alternative.
SEA SFO SJC LAX SNA ONT SAN PHX SLC DEN IAH DFW OMA FSD MSP MSN MKE ORD DTW CLE CVG MEM BNA JAN BHM RSW SAV ATL CLT BWI
727forever From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 798 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 14313 times:
Quoting FCAFLYBOY (Reply 12): God I'm bored of EK now. Sometimes something becomes so vast it's no longer interesting and no doubt
in about 10 years there will be no national airlines, just EK.
This is capacity dumping, pure and simple. The middle east countries and their subsidized airlines are realizing that the oil bubble is about to burst and they must find new industry to continue funding their lavish lifestyles in a land that is good for nothing but oil. They are also realizing that people aren't going to go to the Arabian peninsula in mass for tourism. They are using their airlines to kill thriving national airlines of other countries to build up an industry that is a fiat for their countries. By the time the World realizes what is going on, it will be too late and the only airlines left, outside of China, will be EK, QR, and TK.
This is obviously targeted mainly towards MXP-JFK local traffic. If someone wants to fly between Dubai and New York EK would gladly sell them a ticket on one of their nonstop flights. Only (well, mostly) people too cheap to to purchase those will fly JFK-MXP-DXB.
panamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5193 posts, RR: 24
Reply 21, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 13838 times:
Quoting behramjee (Reply 4): EK is on a mission to get 1 carrier to suspend its own MXP services (in order to boost its own market share) which in all likely hood could end up being TG from the Asia side and DL on the MXP-JFK sector (it can instead offer code share on AZ's own service).
It won't be that easy. Fifth freedom flights such as these are difficult by nature, even if it's Emirates. There are very few viable fifth freedom routes left in the world (SQ's SFO-HKG is a notable exception, but even SQ has to discount from time to time on its LAX-NRT and FRA-JFK services). No matter how superior people think EK's product may be, the other carriers on the route (AZ, DL, AA, UA) all have the natural 'home field' advantage on either or both sides of this route in terms of point-of-sale, passenger base, etc.
JEKY From Italy, joined Mar 2005, 37 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 13723 times:
Any chances to see the mighty A380 on the route? when will tickets go on sell from?
Hope very soon as I am flying to the big apple in November this year.
Meanwhile watching the 380 fly over my house daily would be just coooooooool!!!
FoxBravo From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 3063 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (2 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 13314 times:
Quoting panamair (Reply 21): It won't be that easy. Fifth freedom flights such as these are difficult by nature, even if it's Emirates. There are very few viable fifth freedom routes left in the world (SQ's SFO-HKG is a notable exception, but even SQ has to discount from time to time on its LAX-NRT and FRA-JFK services). No matter how superior people think EK's product may be, the other carriers on the route (AZ, DL, AA, UA) all have the natural 'home field' advantage on either or both sides of this route in terms of point-of-sale, passenger base, etc.
As much as I welcome any new service at JFK, I would agree with this--at least from a passenger yield perspective. SQ often has very low fares, including in premium classes, on FRA-JFK. Same with CX on JFK-YVR.
However, I remember hearing that the primary reason for EK's previous HAM flight was cargo, specifically the additional amounts that can be carried with a fuel stop. And the 773ER holds a massive amount of belly cargo. If that's what is driving this flight, then maybe the passenger traffic is just the icing on the cake. Then again, the HAM service didn't last very long, so who knows...
It's only capacity dumping if you can prove they are selling tickets at a loss. Pursuing market share with lower prices (resulting from bigger airplanes and a more efficient operation), if profitable, is hardly capacity dumping.
Quoting 727forever (Reply 18): The middle east countries and their subsidized airlines are realizing that the oil bubble is about to burst and they must find new industry to continue funding their lavish lifestyles in a land that is good for nothing but oil. They are also realizing that people aren't going to go to the Arabian peninsula in mass for tourism. They are using their airlines to kill thriving national airlines of other countries to build up an industry that is a fiat for their countries. By the time the World realizes what is going on, it will be too late and the only airlines left, outside of China, will be EK, QR, and TK.
Oh please. It's only Westerners who are panicking. If you had grown up in Dubai for example, before EK really became big, it was not uncommon to take SQ to India. People in the rest of the world are used to the idea of fifth freedom.
Moreover, these places all have natural geographic advantages which they are leveraging. It's no different than my country selling our key advantage (resources) or Hong Kong selling its key advantage: a free market on the doorstep of China. The US and Germany are industrial powerhouses and that has come from certain key advantages: society and government structures that promote free enterprise, a highly educated workforce, free capital markets, etc. Do the US and Germany not promote those principles because it suits them?
Now I will agree with you that the Arabian peninsula doesn't have much to offer beyond oil. Their rather restrictive culture makes tourism rather difficult. And there really isn't much in places like Dubai beyond shopping, save the odd novelty (artificial ski hill). That said, think of where the UAE is, and what is around the UAE. India, though economically booming, is still a hole for most of the middle class. Iran is ultra-conservative. Ditto for Saudi. The UAE and Dubai, in particular, is a light in a dark region. Though, I will say, if India ever gets its act together, the Gulf countries will be seriously diminished.
Lastly, what's with the complaints about TK? Turkey is most certainly unlike the Gulf countries. It is a strong tourist destination. It's far more moderate and liberal. And is economically rising, without oil. Grouping the Turks in with the Arabs shows serious ignorance.
: Or via STN as it has been mentioned on another thread that STM would make it to (MAN airport managed) STN.
: Italy transatlantic is practically 'seasonal' at this point--I'm not sure what local traffic there is to have. I think people way-over estimate how g
: This is true. Perhaps their A380 J class is a cut above, but I don't think their 77W J class offers much more than DL or AZ's new products. Even SQ,
: Are you comparing Dubai to Saudi Arabia/Kuwaitt etc? Dubai has very little oil. Um, yes they are. Dubai is the 8th most visited city in the world by
: While I don't think U.S. airlines have any thing to fear from EK on this route I do wonder why are they adding this route so late in the season? By th
: I think the only other long haul fifth freedom flights that EK operate are BNE and MEL-SIN, SYD-BKK and MEL-KUL. These are similar to the possible MXP
: I don't think DL (or UA) will end their NYC-MXP services. They both have feed in NYC and DL has a partner in MXP. AA might just keep PHL-MXP and drop
: I think it's a stretch to say DL has a partner on the MXP end. AZ offers very few connections.
: Well, I don't think both AZ and DL need to serve that route now with the JV. What other long-haul routes does AZ operate from MXP? Just NRT?
: It may not have the connections but it probably has a lot of AZ frequent fliers in MIL who want to stick to Skyteam for travel to NYC and beyond. EK
: Italy is a very hit and miss market, although I've heard Milan does better than other destinations. I'd be curious to see how traffic to Italy was af
: If a 3rd daily JFK service was launched, I would suggest it to be as follows: EK XXX Dep DXB 1445 Arr JFK 2030 EK XXX Dep JFK 1630 Arr DXB 1330...will
: Also SYD-AKL, SYD-CHC, BNE-AKL & MEL-AKL The SYD/MEL/BNE - stop - DXB - Europe are all, from my experience, low yield traffic, up to several hund
: Your proposal certainly makes a lot of sense, yet as you state yourself, this third nonstop flight would need to operate with A388 as well, and that
: I think one of the reasons for this is that you can book the flight only to JFK and not any of the codeshares within the States beyond JFK. If I try
: It absolutely helps! The Italian Consulate in Detroit was slated for closure but they have decided to keep it open because there are Italians moving
: According to various sources, Dubai nor UAE is in the top 10 for most traveled to destinations. http://travel.cnn.com/what-were-most...ar-travel-dest
: What source are you referring to? In all the sources I can find DXB or the UAE doesn't come close to the top 10 of the world's most popular tourist d
: Say the MXP flight does eventually get upguaged to an a380, will there be an availible gate at T4 for it? If it has an evening departure there will be
: What do you mean by this, particularly in relation to Qantas? To me QF has met the "Middle East" threat quite head on. It's changed its 70 year old s
: QF has established this new relationship with EK as a stop gap measure to stop the bleeding on the international side. Jetstar was started to stop th
: US does not fly PHLMXP. AA does surprisingly very well in Milan - it launched during Alitalia's most troubled times and AA took advantage of that - a
: Stop gap? What is your evidence for that? It is a 10 year agreement. Of course it remains to be seen how successful it is, but early hear say evidenc
: Fact check. Jetstar was started by QF in 2003 as a direct response to Virgin Blue which was started in 2000 and was digging into the QF network with
: Fact check: Jetstar was NOT started in 2003! Impulse, which QF purchased in 2001/2 was renamed Jetstar in 2003. Jetstar was an expansion of Impulse b
: The "bleeding international side" is recovering, and will return to profitability within 2 years. This "stop gap measure" will be run for 10 (yes 10)
: Thank you. Combined with your stats, that makes much more sense for EK. I wonder how the MXP-JFK-MXP segment will do on its own... if there is enough
: Just to make your comment more balanced it would be fair to say the above airlines keep plane makers both in Europe and across the pond going. Never
: I'd harken a guess that if EK would like to offload some of the lower yielding traffic on the evening direct to Dubai, then the Manchester stop might
: I could have sworn I saw US in MXP! Must have been FCO (or VCE). I wouldn't be surprised if they started PHL-MXP. MIA-MXP would do well too. There is
: I would. It makes no sense to fly PHLMXP and JFKMXP alongside each other. US did fly PHLMXP a few years ago. I believe it operated around 2006-2008.
: Wouldn't they need special government approval for such flights? Or have they already received it?
: Your first link is just people sharing where they are visiting, the second link is countries, not cities. See below for my source. My original post s
: Why not fly DXB-LED-JFK? Saint Petersburg is one of the largest cities in the world without a non-stop service to NYC.
: The only hangup I would find is a potential issue with LED transfers. While MXP is not perfect for transfers, there is potential. I'm surprised there
: The schedule indicates that the two aircraft meet eachother briefly at MXP every day. EK205 Dubai 0910 – 1350 Milan Malpensa 1600 – New York JFK 1
: When do we expect to get a announcement that this route will start?