Gonzalo From Chile, joined Aug 2005, 1676 posts, RR: 0 Posted (3 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 11860 times:
I have a couple of questions about this. A QR A321 flying from Doha to Budapest diverted to Teheran after an engine failure. Why is this flight taking a route so far to the North ? Are they trying to avoid Iraqi Airspace ? And what happens to the passengers without the right papers to enter into Iran if the diversion causes a cancellation of the flight ? Can a citizen of Israel or U.S. enter into Iran in a situation like this ?
9MMPQ From Netherlands, joined Nov 2011, 243 posts, RR: 0 Reply 1, posted (3 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 11686 times:
A fair share of international traffic seems to route through Iranian airspace. I've read (but am not sure how true it still is) that the ATC infrastructure is still being brought up to standard & at least up until 2011 the USAF still was controlling parts of Iraqi airspace on their behalf. If that's still actual then sticking to what has worked for such a long time (Iranian airspace) doensn't seem so strange.
Most nationalities can get visas at the bigger airports, certainly in Teheran, and as US citizens can apply for Iranian visa too i would assume they can get that arranged upon arrival. Not sure about Israeli citizens but once they arrived on a diversion what could you do except perhaps keep them in the airport ? As the airline would certainly take action to get it's passengers out i'd suppose the worst that could happen is you'd be stuck in the airport for a day, maybe two.
I believe in coincidences. Coincidences happen every day. But I don't trust coincidences.
RyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 2525 posts, RR: 2 Reply 3, posted (3 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 11480 times:
Quoting Gonzalo (Thread starter): Why is this flight taking a route so far to the North ? Are they trying to avoid Iraqi Airspace ?
This is something of a "normal" route between the Gulf and Europe. Whenever I've flown DXB-LON/MAN we have gone over Iran and then banked over into Turkey once we were north of Iraqi airspace. I understand that some flights route over Saudi airspace and then Jordan/Israel but I've never done that.
AeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 18864 posts, RR: 64 Reply 4, posted (3 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 11470 times:
Quoting jbmitt (Reply 2): NW had a flight divert to Tehran and by all accounts the Iranians were very helpful
It was NW flight 41, a DC-10 from BOM to AMS in June 2005. It wouldn't make any sense for the government of Iran to give anyone problems in what is a safety and humanitarian situation.
Every day there has got to be a few dozen if not hundreds of Western passengers, who have have Israeli stamps on their passports on the various flights to and from DXB, DOH, AUH, BAH, KWI...I am sure airline officials would route flights differently if this was an issue.
Gonzalo From Chile, joined Aug 2005, 1676 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (3 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 11339 times:
Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 4): It was NW flight 41, a DC-10 from BOM to AMS in June 2005. It wouldn't make any sense for the government of Iran to give anyone problems in what is a safety and humanitarian situation.
I hope that will be always the case. Honestly I don't want to go into politics, nor offend to anyone since I'm sure the Iranian common people, as the majority of the people of all over the world, are good and friendly people, and I know there are certain international conventions about this cases, but with the same transparency, I recognize that I had my doubts about what could happen to a couple of citizens of Israel when his flight lands in a place who's authorities claim their home country shouldn't exist...
KC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 11708 posts, RR: 52 Reply 8, posted (3 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 11184 times:
I wonder what the Israelis and Iranians would do if an LY airplane had to emergency divert into IKA? I know, I know, LY doesn't have any flights that go anywhere near Iran, but maybe it would for a charter.
Or how about an IR flight emergency diverting into TLV?
I would guess the country receiving the emergency aircraft would escort it using their respective Air Forces, both into and out of the country.
gr8circle From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 2987 posts, RR: 4 Reply 10, posted (3 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 11087 times:
I would think if a country gives over flying rights through their airspace to any airline, it would know that there could be some possible emergency involving that airline, some time in future, and they may have to host passengers of different nationalities who happen to be on board......it's not that you start thinking about what stand to take when an emergency situation happens.....you also have your own national carrier(s) to think about and should be worried about the repurcussions if you mistreat or refuse to admit any of the stranded passengers.....your own airline could be in the same situation tomorrow.....
Of course, that's idealistic thinking......never know what may happen in reality because it all depends on the officials on the spot at that moment....
That thread is from 2005. Lot of things are different ( not precisely better ) in the relations between Iran and certain countries like U.S. or Israel.
Quoting gr8circle (Reply 10): you also have your own national carrier(s) to think about and should be worried about the repurcussions if you mistreat or refuse to admit any of the stranded passengers.....your own airline could be in the same situation tomorrow.....
We are talking about a country where the authorities are defying the international community with nuclear tests and threats despite a long time under hard economic and politic sanctions and isolation... I doubt that authorities will care too much about their national airline, but obviously I could be veeeery very wrong.
In any case, like I said before, I'm not trying to turn this into a political discussion, my original question ( " Can a citizen of Israel or U.S. enter into Iran in a situation like this ? " ) has been answered at some degree in earlier replies.
KC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 11708 posts, RR: 52 Reply 13, posted (3 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 11015 times:
Quoting liftsifter (Reply 9): Ask yourself what an Israeli citizen is doing in Doha anyways..
Ask the Israelis and Qataries. You would be surprised at how much business Israelis do in Arab countries, under the surface of the press and average citizens.
flyboy_se From Switzerland, joined Feb 2000, 745 posts, RR: 6 Reply 14, posted (3 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 11005 times:
Quoting 9MMPQ (Reply 1): As the airline would certainly take action to get it's passengers out i'd suppose the worst that could happen is you'd be stuck in the airport for a day, maybe two.
The article mentiones that a replacement A321 arrived in BUD with a delay of 7 hours.
As DOH is only 2 hours from IKA, it is not a big issue to send a replacement aircraft. However if the aircraft was in GRU or MEL, it would take little more time.
solarflyer22 From US Minor Outlying Islands, joined Nov 2009, 395 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (3 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 10928 times:
Quoting turjo101 (Reply 6): This topic of Israelis being forced to land in Iran has been thoroughly discussed and was found to be a non issue.
This is a non-issue and there have been several aircraft that have diverted to Iran, including for medical reasons.
Quoting Gonzalo (Reply 7): recognize that I had my doubts about what could happen to a couple of citizens of Israel when his flight lands in a place who's authorities claim their home country shouldn't exist...
As a Farsi speaker, which I am guessing you are not, they are saying its a political entity that should not exist. They are not saying kill every Israeli. They are saying there should be an Islamic Government run by Palestinians in other words. Its frequently incorrectly translated in the West or exaggerated.
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 8): Or how about an IR flight emergency diverting into TLV?
I would imagine TLV would abide by the same treaties Iran and the US are part of.
Quoting Gonzalo (Reply 11): We are talking about a country where the authorities are defying the international community with nuclear tests and threats despite a long time under hard economic and politic sanctions and isolation..
Perhaps you are confusing them with North Korea. There has not been a Nuclear Test in Iran nor do they threaten nations the way North Korea does. I have never actually heard any of their leaders threaten invasion of anywhere.
I would imagine due to the sanctions, Iran might "impound" an aircraft one day. If its a BA, UA or AA flight. They might take an airframe since sanctions prevent purchasing planes for civilian purposes. They would in essence foreclose on it in response to sanctions. They UK impounded a Mahan Air 747 so its not far fetched.
FreshSide3 From United States of America, joined Nov 2012, 204 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (3 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 10882 times:
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 8): Or how about an IR flight emergency diverting into TLV?
There was an Iranian plane that was flying over Israel, a few years back, that had to make an emergency landing of some sort. Don't remember all the details....but I think it ended up landing at an Israeli military base, instead of at TLV. Anyone else remember this? Anyone have any details?
delawareusa From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 101 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (3 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 10505 times:
When Iran gives rights to foreign airliners to overfly Iran, they have to expect diversions and facilitate a diversion without an international incident. If not, Iran's flight will not be allowed to overfly other countries.
Only time I know of this was not immediately honored was an Air Canada flight that was coming from Cuba, and had to divert to mid west US (Ohio?) The US administration back then (Bush II) was trying to find evil Americans traveling to Cuba illegally, Caused quite a fuss until Bush II let another Air Canada plane land and take the passengers out without a passport check.
ushermittwoch From Germany, joined Jan 2004, 2888 posts, RR: 18 Reply 18, posted (3 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 10476 times:
Quoting Gonzalo (Reply 11): We are talking about a country where the authorities are defying the international community with nuclear tests and threats despite a long time under hard economic and politic sanctions and isolation... I doubt that authorities will care too much about their national airline, but obviously I could be veeeery very wrong.
In any case, like I said before, I'm not trying to turn this into a political discussion, my original question ( " Can a citizen of Israel or U.S. enter into Iran in a situation like this ? " ) has been answered at some degree in earlier replies.
Obviously you are trying to politicize the issue since you are making up asanine claims about a country you obviously know less than nothing about.
delta747tlv From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 22 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (3 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 10317 times:
Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 8): I wonder what the Israelis and Iranians would do if an LY airplane had to emergency divert into IKA? I know, I know, LY doesn't have any flights that go anywhere near Iran, but maybe it would for a charter.
LY takes outrageous routes as to not fly over any countries such as Iran where they have hostile relations. It was discussed on some thread at some point that LY TLV-BOM was at least 2hrs longer block time than RJ AMM-BOM due to the routing to avoid flying over Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, etc.
flyenthu From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 58 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (3 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 9654 times:
Whenever I fly from DXB-IAH, we fly over Iran for a long time. It is always bumpy during winter bc of the mountains. This time I took some pics of what looked similar to Grand Canyon-esque terrain (check my trip report, click to enlarge pics). It was really pretty. I, too, have wondered about an emergency landing in Iran. From the responses, it appears not to be an issue.
rfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 6150 posts, RR: 25 Reply 21, posted (3 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 9643 times:
Quoting Gonzalo (Reply 11): Lot of things are different ( not precisely better ) in the relations between Iran and certain countries like U.S. or Israel.
Yes, it was several years ago. And the political situation has changed in some respects,
However, Iran has absolutely NOTHING to gain by not treating unexpected passengers or stranded passengers with anything but courtesy and helping them get on their way. They have a great deal to lose if there were to be any issues with passengers of such an emergency landing aircraft.
Iran makes a lot of money from transit aircraft ATC fees. Hard currency which cannot be interdicted by any embargos.
777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5200 posts, RR: 4 Reply 23, posted (3 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 9239 times:
Quoting delta747tlv (Reply 19): LY takes outrageous routes as to not fly over any countries such as Iran where they have hostile relations. It was discussed on some thread at some point that LY TLV-BOM was at least 2hrs longer block time than RJ AMM-BOM due to the routing to avoid flying over Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, etc.
Partly incorrect El Al are banned from flying over ME, Afghan, Pak, Bangla, Malay, Indonese airspace, they do not avoid the airspace on their own choosing.
Quoting FreshSide3 (Reply 16): There was an Iranian plane that was flying over Israel, a few years back, that had to make an emergency landing of some sort. Don't remember all the details....but I think it ended up landing at an Israeli military base, instead of at TLV. Anyone else remember this? Anyone have any details?
impossible, unless it was that hijacking incident involving an Iranian spy for israel who took the plane there some twenty years or more ago, it landed at a military base
esdex From Australia, joined Jan 2011, 49 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (3 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 8428 times:
Israel, Iran and the US are all signatories to the Chicago Convention 1944 but not uniformly of the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) which relevantly defines the concept of 'innocent passage' for ships and aircraft in distress while in another State's territorial airspace over territorial seas. A couple of key provisions of the Chicago Convention summarised:
Article 5: Each contracting State agrees that all civil aircraft of other contracting States, subject to all the terms of the Convention, shall have the right to make flights into or in transit non-stop across its territory and to make stops for non traffic purposes without obtaining prior permission, subject to the right of the State flown over to require landing.
(Note that scheduled international air services are regulated under Article 6 but a technical/emergency diversion is an Article 25 issue)
Article 13: Entry and clearance regulations- The laws and regulations of a contracting State as to the admission to or departure from its territory of passengers, crew or cargo of aircraft, such as regulations relating to entry, clearance, immigration, passports, customs, and quarantine shall be complied with by or on behalf of such passengers, crew or cargo upon entrance into or departure from, or while within the territory of that State.
Article 25: Each contracting State undertakes to provide such measures of assistance to aircraft in distress in its territory as it may find practicable and subject to control by its own authorities, the owners of the aircraft or authorities in the State in which the aircraft is registered as may be necessitated by the circumstances.
In short, an aircraft in distress needs to be provided necessary assistance, but persons not permitted to enter a State for some local reason may find themselves confined airside if they have to deplane following a technical diversion.
[Edited 2013-02-20 23:18:07]
25 AR385: I really do not appreciate it when I mention something in the threads here and then I get the SOURCE? or the THAT CAN´T BE TRUE reprimand. So forgiv
26 flyhigh@tom: Almost all of the ME carriers transit thru Iranian airspace when flying to destinations in the northern hemisphere. Plus add to the fact that IKA actu
27 aloges: And that is that. Very few people in the positions to do so are interested in aggravating the already difficult circumstances of an emergency diversi
28 ly7e7: Iranian pax 707 was hijacked to Israel in 1995. http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1...er-iranian-woman-israeli-officials
29 jfk787nyc: Qatar and the UAE are the two largest trade partners for the ordinary Israeli citizens - Diamonds Anyone??
30 777way: But Qatar had shut down Israeli trade mission office after Gaza raid, Oman was the ither place that was in the process of befriending Israel, never he
31 Gonzalo: No I don't. I'm doing legitimate questions about how some citizens of certain nationalities could be treated in a place where the authorities are ope
32 802flyguy: This thread remind of the story from a couple of years back of an NW (maybe DL) flight on the BOM-AMS route on 24 Dec; the controller in THR wished th
33 jumpjets: i don't recall any 747s being impounded in the UK but certainly an A310 was impounded in Birmingham, but I think that was as a result of action taken
34 rfields5421: No matter what their views or relationships with a particular nation - leaders worldwide recognize the downside of taking action against anyone on an
35 777way: ^ These people? it applies to any one in the wolrd not just Iranians or people from that region, do not try the them vs us (west) crap attitude, becau
36 ushermittwoch: Not buying it. You have been here long enough to have noticed that this question comes up every few months. With the same results. Level headed poste
37 aloges: Oh please, that's exactly what he was saying:
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