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QF First Half Result - AUD$223m Profit  
User currently offlineSydscott From Australia, joined exactly 11 years ago today! , 3126 posts, RR: 20
Posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 5999 times:

QF have reported first half results today. A Statutory net profit of $111 million and an underlying profit of $223 million.

http://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20130221/pdf/42d51vs93fkymf.pdf

Segment results include;

- $91 million loss for QF International, an improvement of $171 million;
- $218 million profit for QF Domestic, down from $328 million if first half of 2012.
- $128 million from Jetstar, down from $147 million in first half of 2012;
- $137 million from QF Loyalty, up from $119 million in first half of 2012
- $22 million from freight, down from $38 millin.

$3.5 billion of cash on hand.

64 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinefiscal From Australia, joined Oct 2009, 334 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 6000 times:

Things seem to be improving then.....

User currently offlineSydscott From Australia, joined exactly 11 years ago today! , 3126 posts, RR: 20
Reply 2, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 6004 times:

http://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/20130221/pdf/42d525lvtqds0y.pdf

QF have also announced a major refurbishment of the A330 fleet and will acquire 5 additional 737-800's for QF Domestic.

That means that all 10 A330-300's and 20 A330-200's will have flat beds in business class. So the A332's coming back from JQ will be significantly upgraded.


User currently offlineZKOKQ From Australia, joined Mar 2012, 478 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 5989 times:

Things are looking good for QF! Lets hope the momentum will continue.

Well done to Alan Joyce and the team at QF.


User currently offlineMikey86 From Australia, joined Jul 2011, 161 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 5971 times:

Sad to see the 767 go   But a much needed retirement for QF.


mikey86 - Greenslopes, Queensland
User currently offlinejetblueguy22 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 2810 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 5873 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD MODERATOR

Glad to see QF is turning things around. It should be interesting to see how much the EK partnership helps. I've only flown them a couple of times but I enjoy their service quite a bit.
Pat



All of the opinions stated above are mine and do not represent Airliners.net or my employer unless otherwise stated.
User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4981 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 5817 times:

Bloody fantastic result considering the position QF was in same time last year...

Well done AJ and QF!!!

Bring on DXB!!!

EK413

[Edited 2013-02-20 15:25:04]


Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlinebobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1725 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 5806 times:

Their improvement is all international. What is happening in the domestic market that has caused a reduction in profits.

User currently offlinejrfspa320 From Australia, joined Sep 2005, 253 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 5805 times:

Will the a330 have the new Y, any chance of putting in Y+?

User currently offlineZKOKQ From Australia, joined Mar 2012, 478 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 5795 times:

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 7):

Maybe the war after the grounding and the switch to another airline? People searching for a better price, ie using Tiger?


User currently onlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5769 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 5783 times:

Quoting Sydscott (Thread starter):
$91 million loss for QF International, an improvement of $171 million;
- $218 million profit for QF Domestic, down from $328 million if first half of 2012.
- $128 million from Jetstar, down from $147 million in first half of 2012;
- $137 million from QF Loyalty, up from $119 million in first half of 2012
- $22 million from freight, down from $38 millin.

Overall very impressive! It's great to see that International is improving, and that Loyalty - the unsung hero of the Group - is still performing strongly. We knew the Domestic was going to take a hit given the fair war that VA unleashed, but hopefully that should stabilise during 2013. Perhaps the biggest concern is freight. Does anyone know why that aspect is performing weaker this year?

Reading the media release in #2, I find it interesting that it looks like the 332s are going to be 100% domestic and the 333s 100% international. I guess that sort of makes sense, but I wonder if 10 A330s is enough for their Asian network? I'm counting BNE-HKG (1), MEL-HKG (1), BNE-SIN (1), MEL-SIN (1), SYD-SIN (1), PER-SIN (1), SYD-CGK (1), SYD-MNL (1), SYD-BKK (1), SYD-PVG(1) = 10, no spares, and this assumes that SYD-NRT remains a 747.

Also I'm saddened to see that the 734s will be gone by the end of this year   As I am CBR based, virtually all of my flying is on 734s (or Q400s if going to SYD). While they are showing their age, they have wormed their way into my heart. I'm going to miss my pet Kookaburra (i.e. VH-TJE)



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlineaussie747 From Australia, joined Aug 2003, 1163 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 5754 times:

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 7):
What is happening in the domestic market that has caused a reduction in profits.

Probably the bloodbath that domestic is at the moment
- Tiger is ramping up
- QF forced to lower yeilds esp in business class to compete with VA
- VA increase its corporate share of the market

All of the above is squeezings QF bottom line.


User currently offlineQFVHOQA From Australia, joined Mar 2012, 481 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 5693 times:

These results seems to bolster Alan Joyce's plans for QF. Though I am questioning that all A332's are going domestic. Might be tough to fill an A333 to all their Asian destinations. And with no slack in the A330 fleet for the refurbishments, perhaps another destination will go - MNL?

It was very interesting that since the EK partnership, bookings to some EU destinations are way up compared to the BA partnership. "We sold 4 times the number of seats to BCN, 13 times more to MUC, 14 times more to CPH and 17 times more to MXP."
Qantas 2012/13 Half-Year Results - CEO's Address


User currently offlinevhebb From Australia, joined Apr 2011, 192 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 5613 times:

I assume the A333 and A332s will be getting the same cabins so they can be interchanged between international and domestic.

User currently offlineSydscott From Australia, joined exactly 11 years ago today! , 3126 posts, RR: 20
Reply 14, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 5538 times:

Quoting vhebb (Reply 13):
I assume the A333 and A332s will be getting the same cabins so they can be interchanged between international and domestic.

I assume that as well. Interestingly enough there is no mention of Skybeds in media release or supplementary materials however they have distinctly said "flat bed". I wonder if this means a totally new seat which is standard for Domestic and Regional flying? That would certainly make sense.

Quoting QFVHOQA (Reply 12):
"We sold 4 times the number of seats to BCN, 13 times more to MUC, 14 times more to CPH and 17 times more to MXP."

And this is only the first initial burst of bookings, there are still alot more destinations and combinations to come which will add to QF's bookings. It's definitely a step in the right direction though!


User currently offlinelegacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2093 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 5520 times:

According to this article, $125m was from compensation from Boeing for the 787 delay.

http://sg.news.yahoo.com/qantas-wins...rofit-rises-222922736--sector.html



John@SFO
User currently offlineSydscott From Australia, joined exactly 11 years ago today! , 3126 posts, RR: 20
Reply 16, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 5389 times:

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 10):
SYD-CGK (1), SYD-MNL (1)

Don't forget that neither of these are daily flights. SYD-CGK and SYD-MNL are both 4 weekly at the moment so you have spare capacity in these two routes.

Not forgetting that with the A332 having lie falts, HNL was finally have a QF mainline aircraft with lie flat seating installed. So that'll be an improvement!


User currently offlinetullamarine From Australia, joined Aug 1999, 1609 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 5338 times:

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 14):
I assume that as well. Interestingly enough there is no mention of Skybeds in media release or supplementary materials however they have distinctly said "flat bed". I wonder if this means a totally new seat which is standard for Domestic and Regional flying? That would certainly make sense.

I believe it will be different seating. As I understand it, the Skybed is heavier and less space efficient than "off-the-shelf" J class seating like the Weber seats used by VA and SQ on their A330s.



717,721/2,732/3/4/5/7/8/9,742/3/4,752/3,762/3,772,W,310,320/1,332/3,388,DC9,DC10,F28,F100,142,143,E90,CR2,D82/3/4,SF3,AT
User currently onlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5769 posts, RR: 5
Reply 18, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 5317 times:

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 14):
I wonder if this means a totally new seat which is standard for Domestic and Regional flying? That would certainly make sense.

Yep, that's what the press release that you linked said: "a new flat seat in business class"

Quoting QFVHOQA (Reply 12):
It was very interesting that since the EK partnership, bookings to some EU destinations are way up compared to the BA partnership. "We sold 4 times the number of seats to BCN, 13 times more to MUC, 14 times more to CPH and 17 times more to MXP."

I can only speak from one personal example: my mother. She takes several business trips per year to the USA, China and the UK.

She has been loyal to CO, and then UA, since 1995 when CO launched MAN-EWR. At the time we lived in the UK, and all her business travel was to the USA so it made sense. But she has stuck with them (and by extension SQ to Asia/UK) until now.

Given that her business in Asia is in China/Hong Kong - and never SE Asia - we had discussed the benefits of moving to OW for CX. Also, given that she lives in BNE, she has to connect in SYD or AKL to go to the USA. Obviously QF15/16 or QF8 are significantly more convenient. After the EK announcement she has finally decided to take the plunge and move over to QF. In the past 6 weeks she has already booked two business trips to the UK, which would have gone to SQ just a few months ago.

She is UA 1K [MileagePlus goes Silver, Gold, Platinum, 1K] so she is a pretty significant passenger to pick up, and QF snagged her because of EK. I'm sure she isn't the only one...



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlineLufthansa From Christmas Island, joined May 1999, 3217 posts, RR: 10
Reply 19, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 5224 times:

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 18):
She is UA 1K [MileagePlus goes Silver, Gold, Platinum, 1K] so she is a pretty significant passenger to pick up, and QF snagged her because of EK. I'm sure she isn't the only one.

Nope I'm hearing the same thing. That this FINALLY gives them the option of enabling them to stay loyal to one scheme for all their travel. I have a friend with family in Scotland that was thrilled. He easy does 100K a year and usually J long haul, sometimes F but never in Y unless it's domestic. I myself have friends in CPH, that split their time between Australia and Denmark. They used to use Thai. Not anymore, its now EK/QF!

Regarding the seat, I wouldn't be surprised to see the thompson vantage suite turn up.
http://www.thompsonaero.com/index.php/products/vantage-suite

It doesn't take up anymore room than lie flat at an angle seats, and has had a lot of success on the A330/A340 at Swiss, Finnair and Delta soon (and they're happy with one offering 1 seat less abreast on the 767). It's pretty much an off the shelf product that will just require some QF styling (shouldn't be too hard swiss tarted it up nicely but Finnair and delta left it looking a tad boring).


User currently offlineQFVHOQA From Australia, joined Mar 2012, 481 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 5156 times:

Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 19):
Regarding the seat, I wouldn't be surprised to see the thompson vantage suite turn up.
http://www.thompsonaero.com/index.php/products/vantage-suite

The EADS Sogerma "Solstys" seat seems to be all the rage at the moment. But maybe QF will go with it's partner AA's new J seat? The one borrowed from CX?


User currently onlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5769 posts, RR: 5
Reply 21, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 5112 times:

Quoting QFVHOQA (Reply 20):
EADS Sogerma "Solstys" seat seems to be all the rage at the moment
Quoting QFVHOQA (Reply 20):
maybe QF will go with it's partner AA's new J seat? The one borrowed from CX?

The "problem" (if you want to call it that) is that those seats are too "different" to the SkyBed. I think that QF would want to keep an element of continuity between their J products.

Delta is one airline that has virtually chosen every design of J seat on the market, meaning that their long haul fleet is a bit of a mixed bag. United is another, although in that case it is because of different seat decisions by PMUA and PMCO*

Singapore Airlines, though, does have a 2 tier long haul/regional product, so I guess QF might go down that route.

Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 19):
Regarding the seat, I wouldn't be surprised to see the thompson vantage suite turn up.

I personally agree. That or the BAE Diamond: http://www.beaerospace.com/products/seating_business_class.htm
(most notably of CO and the new AA flagship product)



*somewhat bizarrely UA and CO actually use the exact same seat (BAE Diamond) but you would never actually know that, for a start UA's are installed omni-directionally.



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25458 posts, RR: 86
Reply 22, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 5050 times:
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Quoting fiscal (Reply 1):

Things seem to be improving then..

You wouldn't know it if you only read Ben Sandilands over at Crikey, but those who are less determined to be a smart-arse than he is think that yes, they are improving.

Although even he, fairly gracelessly in my view, admits that times are (and have been) tough.

mariner

[Edited 2013-02-20 20:49:44]


aeternum nauta
User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4981 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 4978 times:

Quoting QFVHOQA (Reply 12):
And with no slack in the A330 fleet for the refurbishments, perhaps another destination will go - MNL?
Quoting Sydscott (Reply 16):
Don't forget that neither of these are daily flights. SYD-CGK and SYD-MNL are both 4 weekly at the moment so you have spare capacity in these two routes.

Let's not forget the 2 routes mentioned have received from time to time a B763 sub due to low demand so perhaps this is the plan too... I'm sure QF can sacrifice either a International OR Domestic B763 to operate MNL or CGK...

EK413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlineSydscott From Australia, joined exactly 11 years ago today! , 3126 posts, RR: 20
Reply 24, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 4928 times:

Quoting EK413 (Reply 23):
I'm sure QF can sacrifice either a International OR Domestic B763 to operate MNL or CGK...

For relatively short routes, I'm sure the new Domestic A332's will be fine. If it's good enough for HNL at almost 10 hours, MNL and CGK shouldn't be an issue. That would free an A333 frame for something else.


User currently offlineQF15 From Australia, joined Jul 2011, 17 posts, RR: 0
Reply 25, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 5139 times:

BNE-SIN is staying 744 for the forseeable future, so there's 1x free A333.

User currently offlineLufthansa From Christmas Island, joined May 1999, 3217 posts, RR: 10
Reply 26, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 5127 times:

Quoting QF15 (Reply 25):

BNE-SIN is staying 744 for the forseeable future, so there's 1x free A333.

Yep and later in the year QF5 reverts back to 744 according the the current schedule (I checked for August!) so there is another A330 free. (SYD-SIN) Also nobody mentioned Bangkok in the earlier list!


User currently offlineLufthansa From Christmas Island, joined May 1999, 3217 posts, RR: 10
Reply 27, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 5258 times:

PS - well done to QF. this is a good result considering the challenges.

User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4981 posts, RR: 4
Reply 28, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 5209 times:

Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 26):
Also nobody mentioned Bangkok in the earlier list!

TG you better watch your back as QF is coming after you with a 9:30am departure I'm confident QF will steal a few passengers from TG...

EK413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlinesmi0006 From Australia, joined Jan 2008, 1541 posts, RR: 0
Reply 29, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 5157 times:

Good to seem the improvement in both international and domestic products. Although end of 2014 when they will start to be seen is a long log way a way. The flexibility to swap around the A330s would help add huge flexibility.

What seats do QR use in their 787s looks like a product to me. I prefer the look to that if the CX seats.

Hope we see an announcements regarding the refit of new overhead lockers and PTVs to the 738 next.

Concerning to see such a drastic drop in domestic yield, I wonder how VA is fairing.


User currently offlineairnewzealand From New Zealand, joined Oct 2000, 2542 posts, RR: 6
Reply 30, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 5056 times:

Quoting smi0006 (Reply 29):
Hope we see an announcements regarding the refit of new overhead lockers and PTVs to the 738 next.

I know of atleast one aircraft with new 738 interior (without PTV's) but new bulkhead, dividers and overhead lockers. All of the 'old' builds will move to this look at the moment.


User currently offlinesydscott From Australia, joined exactly 11 years ago today! , 3126 posts, RR: 20
Reply 31, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 4687 times:

Quoting smi0006 (Reply 29):
Concerning to see such a drastic drop in domestic yield, I wonder how VA is fairing.

We will find out next week.  
Quoting airnewzealand (Reply 30):
I know of atleast one aircraft with new 738 interior (without PTV's) but new bulkhead, dividers and overhead lockers.

I tend to assume that the older 738's won't be getting PTV's but instead will receive IPAD's in the same way the 763's have. It'll be interesting to see what QF does on the A330 refit because it would be handy to have a consistent in-flight entertainment product throughout the Asia/domestic fleet.


User currently offlineSYDSpotter From Australia, joined exactly 2 years ago today! , 218 posts, RR: 0
Reply 32, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 4241 times:

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 10):
Overall very impressive! It's great to see that International is improving

Is it a case of stemming the losses (through the reduction in routes since last year) or are things actually improving for QF International?

IMO, the real indicator will be the results this time next year when the QF-EK partnership will have contributed 9 months to the P&L.

Also how did QF snag $125m from Boeing a result of them cancelling their order for 787's? Were these actual penalties for the continued delays or did QF get their deposits back from the cancellation?



319_320_321_332_333_388 / 734_737_738_743_744_762_763_772_773_77W
User currently offlineqf002 From Australia, joined Jul 2011, 2990 posts, RR: 2
Reply 33, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 4124 times:

Progress!

QF will have made a remarkable transformation once these initiatives (plus others like the new uniforms, upgrades to J service, new international lounges etc) take force.

Knowing QF though, there will probably still be A330s flying around with a circa-2003 product come 2020...


User currently offlineAuchmithie From UK - England, joined Sep 2010, 145 posts, RR: 0
Reply 34, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 4010 times:

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 18):
"We sold 4 times the number of seats to BCN, 13 times more to MUC, 14 times more to CPH and 17 times more to MXP."

Without figures this statement from Mr Joyce is a nonsense. Could be they've sold 4 and not 1 seat to BCN etc etc.......


User currently offlineairnewzealand From New Zealand, joined Oct 2000, 2542 posts, RR: 6
Reply 35, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 3257 times:

Quoting qf002 (Reply 33):
QF will have made a remarkable transformation once these initiatives (plus others like the new uniforms, upgrades to J service, new international lounges etc) take force.

Qantas is moving in a cycle in regards to cabin upgrades/service 'enhancements'/soft changes.
The Business Service changes are still not complete, and look for more news around dining options later on in the year (around March) Expect more options/less structure around eating, appetisers, glassware, plates...

Perth Cityflyer is currently under review (been like this for 6 months now) and expect something new before years end.

The next cabin to get transformed is First (2013) followed by Main Cabin (2014) then back to Premium Economy. This is the current plan.

'soft' changes = Glassware/blankets/duvets/service structure/amenity kits/pyjamas etc...

Quoting sydscott (Reply 31):
I tend to assume that the older 738's won't be getting PTV's but instead will receive IPAD's in the same way the 763's have. It'll be interesting to see what QF does on the A330 refit because it would be handy to have a consistent in-flight entertainment product throughout the Asia/domestic fleet.

The were talking about moving to a consistent hard product amongst the entire fleet in 2010 (seat covers, PTV's, procedures) however, for whatever reason it was placed on the back burner, most likely due to cost. I can see this is starting to gain motion now, with the honeycomb decor, leather, inflight entertainment and now the announcement of the A330 reconfig, granted it will take years (they really needed the refurb last year).

SO what will the fleet be then?

30 A330 interchangeable between Domestic and International (they are currently doing this now so nothing new)
12+2 (14) A380
9 + ? 747-400 (reconfigured)

Interesting times ahead, look forward to VA's and AirNZ's numbers,


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25458 posts, RR: 86
Reply 36, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 3238 times:
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Quoting Auchmithie (Reply 34):
Without figures this statement from Mr Joyce is a nonsense. Could be they've sold 4 and not 1 seat to BCN etc etc.......

If they have sold four seats instead of one, the statement is still true.

Barcelona is one of my favourite cities in Europe, but I can't imagine there are too many that want to fly from Oz straight through to BCN at the best of times. But every little helps.

mariner

[Edited 2013-02-21 10:52:38]


aeternum nauta
User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13302 posts, RR: 100
Reply 37, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 3055 times:
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Congrats to QF.   

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 5):

Glad to see QF is turning things around. It should be interesting to see how much the EK partnership helps. I've only flown them a couple of times but I enjoy their service quite a bit.
Pat

The EK partnership should boost revenue and cut costs nicely.

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 7):
What is happening in the domestic market that has caused a reduction in profits.

Besides the competition, how is the Australian domestic economy doing?

Quoting aussie747 (Reply 11):
Probably the bloodbath that domestic is at the moment
- Tiger is ramping up
- QF forced to lower yeilds esp in business class to compete with VA
- VA increase its corporate share of the market

Ouch... bloodbath seems right for such a small market.

Quoting QFVHOQA (Reply 12):
It was very interesting that since the EK partnership, bookings to some EU destinations are way up compared to the BA partnership. "We sold 4 times the number of seats to BCN, 13 times more to MUC, 14 times more to CPH and 17 times more to MXP."

I'm not surprised there is a jump. MUC was a decent sized market, so this implies that QF's competitors lost business. I personally wouldn't fly to LHR and backtrack to any of the listed cities... I see no way QF doesn't come out ahead with the EK partnership.


Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlinesydscott From Australia, joined exactly 11 years ago today! , 3126 posts, RR: 20
Reply 38, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 2733 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 36):
If they have sold four seats instead of one, the statement is still true.

Barcelona is one of my favourite cities in Europe, but I can't imagine there are too many that want to fly from Oz straight through to BCN at the best of times. But every little helps.

And I think Alan Joyce was referring to a particular booking week as well when he made that statement. It's an example, and a pretty powerful one, of the benefits that QF can derive from moving its connecting hub from LHR to DXB. More to the point these are pax that were flying other carriers to get there as well.

Quoting airnewzealand (Reply 35):
Perth Cityflyer is currently under review (been like this for 6 months now) and expect something new before years end.

If I could have a rant here, the last time I did SYD-PER, (a couple of weeks ago), I was somewhat surprised that QF had taken the Cheese and Crackers off of the Economy meal plates and had made them a separate service item after they had cleared the meal away instead of an ice cream. I don't know about anyone else, but I always liked the ice cream. LOL


User currently offlineQFVHOQA From Australia, joined Mar 2012, 481 posts, RR: 0
Reply 39, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 2642 times:

Quoting sydscott (Reply 38):
And I think Alan Joyce was referring to a particular booking week as well when he made that statement. It's an example, and a pretty powerful one, of the benefits that QF can derive from moving its connecting hub from LHR to DXB. More to the point these are pax that were flying other carriers to get there as well.

I think it shows that people are willing to book QF for status/points reasons, as all these flights were already available as EK flights. I doubt many would switch from EK to QF coded flights (anecdotal evidence suggests QF prices are higher for the same flights). Might be that SQ was the main target of the QF-EK alliance, but also TG, EY will likely lose these pax.


User currently offlineAuchmithie From UK - England, joined Sep 2010, 145 posts, RR: 0
Reply 40, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 2549 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 36):

Quoting Auchmithie (Reply 34):
Without figures this statement from Mr Joyce is a nonsense. Could be they've sold 4 and not 1 seat to BCN etc etc.......

If they have sold four seats instead of one, the statement is still true.

Yes. However the Qantas revenue share of 1 seat on QF metal to LHR and then a BA codeshare LHR-BCN may well exceed that of 4 seats to BCN if flown entirely on EK metal....


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25458 posts, RR: 86
Reply 41, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 2520 times:
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Quoting Auchmithie (Reply 40):
Yes. However the Qantas revenue share of 1 seat on QF metal to LHR and then a BA codeshare LHR-BCN may well exceed that of 4 seats to BCN if flown entirely on EK metal....

Indeed, and I assume some may fly Emirates all the way. I doubt all of them will.

For myself, I like to swap airlines whenever I can, experience as many as possible on one ticket. You should see some of my itineraries.  

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlinefiscal From Australia, joined Oct 2009, 334 posts, RR: 0
Reply 42, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 2501 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 36):
Barcelona is one of my favourite cities in Europe, but I can't imagine there are too many that want to fly from Oz straight through to BCN

Barcelona is an up and coming cruise port, and Aussies do like a cruise.

Quoting sydscott (Reply 38):
I don't know about anyone else, but I always liked the ice cream. LOL

I second that, and when they are well frozen, all the better, (just have to be careful not to break teeth)


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25458 posts, RR: 86
Reply 43, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 2463 times:
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Quoting fiscal (Reply 42):
Barcelona is an up and coming cruise port, and Aussies do like a cruise.

Sure, and now they can get there. But they can also take cruises from many other ports in the UK and Europe.

Don't get me wrong - Barcelona was a considerable shock to my system when I first went there, I fell in love with the city (although I know others who have had a bad experience there - a bit "Bohemian" - LOL) and it's the gateway to a lovely coast, starting at Sitges.

I know many others, especially the well-heeled crowd, who prefer the Italian Riviera, Rapallo and Portofino (gorgeous but verrrry expensive) or the Amalfi coast, and others, also well-heeled, who prefer the good ol' French Riviera.

I'm not sure why Barcelona has become a bit of a cause. Keep the Aussie cruise ship crowd away, I say.  

mariner

[Edited 2013-02-21 16:31:31]


aeternum nauta
User currently offlinegemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5719 posts, RR: 6
Reply 44, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 2458 times:

Quoting Auchmithie (Reply 40):
may well exceed that of 4 seats to BCN if flown entirely on EK metal....

I read the statement that QF has seen the four fold increase, not EK. To me that means the pax flew QF to DXB then EK, otherwise the new arrangement makes no sense. And that's the point those pax did not fly SQ/TG/MH/CX/KE/ETC instead they flew QF as far as DXB. I'll bet QF sees more of the fare for SYD/MEL-DXB than they ever did via LHR, BECAUSE those extra 3 pax did not fly QF at all.

At least that's my assumption.

Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlinesydscott From Australia, joined exactly 11 years ago today! , 3126 posts, RR: 20
Reply 45, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 2449 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 43):
Keep the Aussie cruise ship crowd away, I say

If only we could get them out of Sydney as well.....................but then that's what we have Jetstar for.  
Quoting Auchmithie (Reply 40):
Yes. However the Qantas revenue share of 1 seat on QF metal to LHR and then a BA codeshare LHR-BCN may well exceed that of 4 seats to BCN if flown entirely on EK metal....

I would seriously doubt that although we have no proof either way. If that was the case QF may as well have stuck with BA.

Quoting QFVHOQA (Reply 39):
I think it shows that people are willing to book QF for status/points reasons, as all these flights were already available as EK flights. I doubt many would switch from EK to QF coded flights (anecdotal evidence suggests QF prices are higher for the same flights). Might be that SQ was the main target of the QF-EK alliance, but also TG, EY will likely lose these pax.

Remember what Tim Clark said about the QF Frequent Flyer progam being a primary motivator for EK to get into bed with QF? Again, this provides some evidence to back his assertion about its power and effectiveness. And I'd say that SQ, TG, EY and every other airline flying between Europe and Australia is a target for QF-EK. For EK, this is all about expanding their DXC hub and mining the QF domestic FF scheme. For QF, this is all about recapturing lost customers through more direct services.


User currently onlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5769 posts, RR: 5
Reply 46, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 2451 times:

Quoting Auchmithie (Reply 40):
However the Qantas revenue share of 1 seat on QF metal to LHR and then a BA codeshare LHR-BCN may well exceed that of 4 seats to BCN if flown entirely on EK metal....

You are missing the point.

Very few people (including loyal QF passengers) were prepared to go through LHR to get to FCO or ZRH, for example. You are overflying your destination by 2 hours, connecting in LHR (which is no-one's favorite pastime), and then flying two hours back again. Therefore people were flying SQ, EK, EY etc.

Let's say that those 4 passengers to BCN previously flew SQ or EY and built up miles/status with KrisFlyer or Etihad Guest. Guess who they are going to fly domestically or to the USA, QF mainline's two profit centres.

QF were, in all likelihood, NEVER going to make a profit flying to Europe, with the possible exception of LHR O&D. Receiving no (or very limited) revenue on an EK ticket is better than negative revenue (!) on a QF/BA one. QF has now cut the 'liability' of flying to Europe, while significantly expanding their European network. In doing so they hope to draw SQ, CX, EK and EY passengers to Qantas (which by some personal accounts are proving successful in) so that they fly QF where the money is.

This is less about flying to Europe than not flying to Europe, while drawing passengers onto the rest of the network. It's an incredibly smart strategy (and I give a lot of credit to Borghetti for pioneering it at VA)


Turning back to aircraft utilisation...

Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 26):
Also nobody mentioned Bangkok in the earlier list!

If you were referring to my list in #10, then I draw you attention to

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 10):
SYD-BKK (1)

 

While BNESIN is staying 747 for the time being, I would expect it to revert back to an A330 at some point, perhaps the beginning of the northern winter. SYDSIN might well remain a 747, so that would free up some slack in the 333 fleet. With MNL and CGK being less-than-daily (I wasn't aware of that) then that would leave 2 spares.


Looking at the 747 fleet, we know that there will be 9 frames staying in the fleet. They would be: BNE-LAX (2), SYD-LAX-JFK (2), SYD-DFW (2), SYD-NRT (1.5), SYD-JNB (1.5) = 9, no spares. Now, the two A380s coming next year will most likely go onto QF7/8, freeing up two 747s. One could do SYD-SIN, leaving one spare.

This would leave them with 2 spare A333s and 1 spare 747. Given that SYD-NRT and SYD-SIN could be subbed with 333s, this could effectively give 1.5 spares per fleet, a realistic number.

The bigger question is what happens during the A330 refurbishment program. The 767s are leaving "by mid-2015", only 6 months after the 330s start to be refurbished "beginning in late 2014". Therefore they obviously aren't planning to cover the lost capacity by keeping HNL on the 76, and possibly backfilling MNL and CGK.

The obvious question therefore becomes, when are they planning to retire the non-remaining 747s by? If that was, say, 2016, that would allow routes such as BNE-SIN and MEL-SIN to be upgauged on the short term so that 330s can be taken out of the system. The other option would be the draw 332s from domestic. Out of interest, could anyone guess how many 332s would be needed for PER + SYD-MEL/BNE? Given the significant increase in capacity over the 767, they would probably use fewer 332s on the East Coast than they do 767s, i.e. 1 x 332 + 1 x 738 = 2 x 767. In light of this, they might be able to spare 332s to cover for 333s going through re-fits.

We shall see...



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlineqf002 From Australia, joined Jul 2011, 2990 posts, RR: 2
Reply 47, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 2418 times:

Quoting airnewzealand (Reply 35):

Cheers! Looking forward to hearing about some more of the changes.

Quoting airnewzealand (Reply 35):
30 A330 interchangeable between Domestic and International (they are currently doing this now so nothing new)

What they're doing at the moment using international aircraft on domestic flights. They're moving towards a fleet where they can do more to respond to changes in demand (ie they could swap 10 A333s for 10 A332s internationally if there's a big drop in regional demand in 5 years).

Quoting Auchmithie (Reply 40):
Yes. However the Qantas revenue share of 1 seat on QF metal to LHR and then a BA codeshare LHR-BCN may well exceed that of 4 seats to BCN if flown entirely on EK metal....

But QF now has an extra seat to sell to LHR, which should generate at least as much revenue/profit as it does today. Whatever they do get from EK (and it won't be much if the trip is EK all the way) is just additional money on top of that.

What I would be interested to see is what the impact on EK bookings has been. It's great if QF is seeing a 17x increase into MXP, but EK won't be happy if that correlates to a 17x decrease in their bookings from Australia to MXP.


User currently offlineAuchmithie From UK - England, joined Sep 2010, 145 posts, RR: 0
Reply 48, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 2381 times:

Quoting qf002 (Reply 47):
Yes. However the Qantas revenue share of 1 seat on QF metal to LHR and then a BA codeshare LHR-BCN may well exceed that of 4 seats to BCN if flown entirely on EK metal....

But QF now has an extra seat to sell to LHR, which should generate at least as much revenue/profit as it does today.

Provided that they sell that seat when they now only have London O&D to do it.

With Mr Joyce's claim that there's now up to 17 x the number of non O&D passengers wishing to get onto the SYD/MEL-DXB sectors in order to connect onto EK metal, Qantas is going to need to find an awful lot of DXB-LHR pax in order not to lose on DXB-LHR what it makes on SYD/MEL-DXB.


User currently offlinesydscott From Australia, joined exactly 11 years ago today! , 3126 posts, RR: 20
Reply 49, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 2267 times:

Quoting Auchmithie (Reply 48):
Qantas is going to need to find an awful lot of DXB-LHR pax in order not to lose on DXB-LHR what it makes on SYD/MEL-DXB.

When this all comes out in the wash, it'll be interesting to see what QF/EK do to maximise the use of the combined LHR slots. It makes no sense for QF to be flying half empty A380's to LHR so I'd say they will rejig the schedule to fill the QF capacity and maybe there will be a temporary reduction in EK service to LHR? If QF is truely picking up additional pax, EK will need additional lift into Europe anyway so this may not be a major issue.


User currently offlineallrite From Australia, joined Aug 2007, 2158 posts, RR: 5
Reply 50, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 2235 times:

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 46):
Looking at the 747 fleet, we know that there will be 9 frames staying in the fleet. They would be: BNE-LAX (2), SYD-LAX-JFK (2), SYD-DFW (2), SYD-NRT (1.5), SYD-JNB (1.5) = 9, no spares. Now, the two A380s coming next year will most likely go onto QF7/8, freeing up two 747s. One could do SYD-SIN, leaving one spare.

What about the 747s used to SCL?



Applying insanity to normality
User currently offlineQFVHOQA From Australia, joined Mar 2012, 481 posts, RR: 0
Reply 51, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 2188 times:

Quoting sydscott (Reply 49):
When this all comes out in the wash, it'll be interesting to see what QF/EK do to maximise the use of the combined LHR slots. It makes no sense for QF to be flying half empty A380's to LHR so I'd say they will rejig the schedule to fill the QF capacity and maybe there will be a temporary reduction in EK service to LHR? If QF is truely picking up additional pax, EK will need additional lift into Europe anyway so this may not be a major issue.

WIth EK maxed out at LHR with 5x daily A380's they may need the QF A380's to carry more pax. There are rumours on another thread that EK is considering STN, so instead of doing that, they can use the extra capacity available on QF.


User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4981 posts, RR: 4
Reply 52, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 2177 times:

Quoting qf002 (Reply 33):
Knowing QF though, there will probably still be A330s flying around with a circa-2003 product come 2020...

Probably under the management of GD yes but not under AJ 
Quoting airnewzealand (Reply 35):
Qantas is moving in a cycle in regards to cabin upgrades/service 'enhancements'/soft changes.
The Business Service changes are still not complete, and look for more news around dining options later on in the year (around March) Expect more options/less structure around eating, appetisers, glassware, plates...

Perth Cityflyer is currently under review (been like this for 6 months now) and expect something new before years end.

The next cabin to get transformed is First (2013) followed by Main Cabin (2014) then back to Premium Economy. This is the current plan.

I'm looking forward to these changes too... Certainly going to be a step up of the current product on offer...

EK413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlineLufthansa From Christmas Island, joined May 1999, 3217 posts, RR: 10
Reply 53, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 2151 times:

Also regarding the A330s, well, I wouldn't be surprised to see MNL dropped for Jetstar. It's a low yielding destination anyway, and a lot of the traffic is VFR, so that's right up jetstar's ally. They could even run one of the Japanese flights through there. Possibly even Jakarta too, but MNL seems an obvious choice for the 787s.

User currently offlinegemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5719 posts, RR: 6
Reply 54, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 2092 times:

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 46):
Now, the two A380s coming next year will most likely go onto QF7/8, freeing up two 747s. One could do SYD-SIN, leaving one spare.

Are you sure they are still coming? I thought they had been deferred too! [I hope you are right!!!]

Gemuser



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User currently offlinelegacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2093 posts, RR: 0
Reply 55, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 2071 times:

Quoting gemuser (Reply 54):
Are you sure they are still coming? I thought they had been deferred too!

You are correct, they are deferred until 2016/17.

http://www.news.com.au/travel/news/q...nding/story-e6frfq80-1226346506848



John@SFO
User currently offlineQFVHOQA From Australia, joined Mar 2012, 481 posts, RR: 0
Reply 56, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 2073 times:

Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 53):
Also regarding the A330s, well, I wouldn't be surprised to see MNL dropped for Jetstar. It's a low yielding destination anyway, and a lot of the traffic is VFR, so that's right up jetstar's ally. They could even run one of the Japanese flights through there. Possibly even Jakarta too, but MNL seems an obvious choice for the 787s.

If JQ take over MNL, SYD-CNS-MNL is within reach of an A320. This could be timed to meet up with the DRW-MNL-NRT flight.


User currently offlineLufthansa From Christmas Island, joined May 1999, 3217 posts, RR: 10
Reply 57, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 2074 times:

Well assuming Boeing gets its act together they will end up with more 787s then the A332s they are replacing. That's rome for more routes/destinations

User currently offlinesydscott From Australia, joined exactly 11 years ago today! , 3126 posts, RR: 20
Reply 58, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 2067 times:

Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 57):
That's rome for more routes/destinations

Rome? That's being a bit ambitious! :P

Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 53):
Also regarding the A330s, well, I wouldn't be surprised to see MNL dropped for Jetstar. It's a low yielding destination anyway, and a lot of the traffic is VFR, so that's right up jetstar's ally.

That's been rumoured for ages and hasn't happened. Personally I wouldn't be surprised to see it, but it has survived thus far.

Quoting QFVHOQA (Reply 51):
There are rumours on another thread that EK is considering STN, so instead of doing that, they can use the extra capacity available on QF.

Not to mention the slot pairs QF currently has on lease to BA. It'll be interesting to see what happens when they come up for renewal and whether QF/EK takes them back and uses them.


User currently offlinefiscal From Australia, joined Oct 2009, 334 posts, RR: 0
Reply 59, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 2057 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 43):
I'm not sure why Barcelona has become a bit of a cause. Keep the Aussie cruise ship crowd away, I say.

If you are referring to the PO Fun cruises, I could not agree more...


User currently onlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5769 posts, RR: 5
Reply 60, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 2020 times:

OK, I didn't realise #13-14 were deferred as well, plus - as noted - I'd forgotten SCL

In that case...

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 46):
BNE-LAX (2), SYD-LAX-JFK (2), SYD-DFW (2), SYD-NRT (1.5), SYD-JNB (1.5) = 9, no spares

Unless something radical happens, they're out of 747s!

The 787s aren't going to be on property until 2016, and none to mainline until the JQ 330s have been replaced.

Let's say that NRT reverts to 333 then the freed up 1.5 frames could cover SCL 4x weekly, but there will be no slack at all in the 333/747 fleet. I guess that 332s will be the spares, as they will have the same product, but that isn't a lot of wriggle room!



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlinegemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5719 posts, RR: 6
Reply 61, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 1936 times:

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 60):
OK, I didn't realise #13-14 were deferred as well,

Damm! I hoped you were right!

Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlinetrent1000 From Japan, joined Jan 2007, 573 posts, RR: 2
Reply 62, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 1759 times:

(Partly) how QF does it - QF kept $200+ of mine towards a future ticket. You have one year to redeem your 'voucher', so Qantas keeps your money & no doubt keeps it in a high interest account in the meantime.

Although the price BNE/SYD appeared as $165, by using my money (voucher) I was only offered the option to pay $239, but to add insult, I had to pay a $65 "re"booking fee. The total paid for a 750km one-way flight BNE/SYD was $304, which is effectively double the usual fare. I think it should be illegal not to refund passenger's money, but to keep it and then charge such a fee. I certainly think it is unethical. It is not a "RE"booking fee - simply a future additional booking. And there is no way that it costs QF $65 for me to make my own reservation online.

So that exemplifies some of the QF profit-making strategies. / fleecing the customer.
I would expect that from Ryanair, but outraged over this from QF, Quite simply, I won't fly QF any time soon.

Does anyone have other QF money grab horrror stories to share?


User currently offlineZkpilot From New Zealand, joined Mar 2006, 4840 posts, RR: 9
Reply 63, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 1732 times:

So with a divisional split its harder for some JQ costs to be shifted to QF (particularly Intl) so Intl is now looking closer to where it should be. It would be better if it had had the investment over the last decade that was sent to JQ instead of course. There is still a lot of cost shifting going on. Most of the rewards get used on Intl yet this is attributed to awards only making Intl look bad for example.


56 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
User currently offlineSYDSpotter From Australia, joined exactly 2 years ago today! , 218 posts, RR: 0
Reply 64, posted (1 year 8 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 1580 times:

Quoting trent1000 (Reply 62):
I think it should be illegal not to refund passenger's money, but to keep it and then charge such a fee. I certainly think it is unethical. It is not a "RE"booking fee - simply a future additional booking. And there is no way that it costs QF $65 for me to make my own reservation online.

Whilst I have some sympathy for you, the no refund policy would've been spelled out for you at the booking stage. If they hadn't informed you of the policy then that's another story. Most airlines will charge a rebooking fees these days not just QF, its a fact of life in today's competitive airline environment.



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