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Booted Off A UA Flight For Taking A Photo  
User currently offlinepsa188 From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 650 posts, RR: 15
Posted (3 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 35562 times:

I just read a blog where the writer got booted off a UA flight for taking a photo of his seat, which apparently violates some lame photo policy UA has in its inflight magazine.

I didn't know UA has a photo policy.

The story is here:

It's an outrage that the FA got all pissy about taking a harmless photo on a plane. Unfortunately the use of the t-word probably ruined the situation, but the FA's initial behaviour was out of line. The guy should try filling out the complaint at http://www.untied.com/

269 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 19418 posts, RR: 50
Reply 1, posted (3 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 35514 times:

Quoting psa188 (Thread starter):
The guy should try filling out the complaint at http://www.untied.com/

This person is in the running with the Middle East and many senior AA crew for longest running grudge ever.

Quoting psa188 (Thread starter):

It's an outrage that the FA got all pissy about taking a harmless photo on a plane.

I'm surprised the captain not only cared but doubled down.

[Edited 2013-02-20 20:34:24]

E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20822 posts, RR: 60
Reply 2, posted (3 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 35452 times:

Quoting psa188 (Thread starter):
It's an outrage that the FA got all pissy about taking a harmless photo on a plane.

In my opinion, he really pushed it using the t-word when attempting to offer his business card and explanation to the FA later. Sometimes you need to know when to drop it, and realize you aren't going to make a bad situation any better.

I haven't been all that impressed with the blogger in question anyway, so I'll leave my comments there. There's a rather long thread on FT about the blog post, too.

International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineFlyDeltaJets From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1989 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (3 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 35366 times:

Sad that people are petty sometimes. Especially over something so menial. I take that particular photo constantly whenever I fly up front. Never had any make an issue of it.

The only valid opinions are those based in facts
User currently offlinejayeshrulz From India, joined Apr 2007, 1041 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (3 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 35093 times:

UA crews do have a little attitude. Ive noticed it too fairly well when I used to work in BOM airport. Its a hit or miss. Sometimes you get extreme good crew, sometimes you get husbands who fought with their wives and have come onboard  

Nevertheless, UA owes him a big apology, and I guess UA can be sued for that? 

Keep flying, because the sky is no limit!
User currently offlinecatiii From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 3949 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (3 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 34743 times:

The UA policy is contradictory and, thusly, stupid. UA maintains a Facebook, Instagram, and twitter page in which customers are encouraged to share photos of their UA travel experience. Now how does that square with thei posted policy in their magazine, which by the way no,one ever reads. If this were such an important policy, then why aren't any announcements ever made reminding pax about the no photo rule?

User currently offlineOB1504 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 3898 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (3 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 34588 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 2):
In my opinion, he really pushed it using the t-word when attempting to offer his business card and explanation to the FA later. Sometimes you need to know when to drop it, and realize you aren't going to make a bad situation any better.

The flight attendant was definitely overreacting (especially considering the negative publicity that this will get for UA), but the passenger ended up digging his own grave by blurting out "terrorist" on a flight to the Middle East area.

User currently offlineLufthansa From Christmas Island, joined May 1999, 3290 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (3 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 34433 times:

I'm with the blogger. He's an elite status high value customer.
This FA is probably just shitty he called her out on her actions, then embarrassed (obviously by running away,
if she firmly believed she was in the right she wouldn't have felt the need to hide) by her obvious over reaction.

This kind of thing shouldn't be tolerated. This is the exact kind of customer any company wants to retain. A
high value one that is also a high repeat customer. Now after this experience, lets say the guy decides to fly
on a long flight up the front on a carrier like Etihad, Emirates, singapore or even Thai? It ain't rocket science to
know what happens next. United permanently loses the customer where there is a choice. It's staff like this, who have forgotten that these people pay their wages ultimately, that are the dead wood in the system.

User currently offlineba319-131 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 8743 posts, RR: 53
Reply 8, posted (3 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 34261 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Now he should not have used the T word, that was a stupid move, that aside, it just shows how Americans have become scared of their own shadow, it's really quite sad this once great nation now views every move by others as something potentially dangerous.

I could not live like that.

User currently offlineAS739BSI From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 148 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (3 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 34252 times:

As soon as you mention the word terrorist and the Captain will probably trust his flight crew more than a frequent flier, he kind of dug his own grave as soon as he mentioned that. A flight attendant on UA responded to his posting and mentioned how pre-flight that the crew is strained due to preparation for departure. It probably would have been best to deal with the incident after arrival in Istanbul. Just my 2 cents.

User currently offlinePlaneHunter From Germany, joined Mar 2006, 7100 posts, RR: 75
Reply 10, posted (3 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 34176 times:

That ridiculous photo policy - no matter how they may interprete it - and the behavior of these crew members are two reasons why I will not consider flying UA again. What a shame.


Nothing's worse than flying the same reg twice!
User currently offlineHarmonium From Denmark, joined Feb 2012, 90 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (3 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 33921 times:

Isn't it ridiculous that you cannot even mention the word 'terrorist' anymore? I certainly think so. Come on, it's not like(according to his statement) he was yelling about terrorism and bombs throughout the aircraft. From what I can read he quietly explained the situation and his reasons for taking photos on board. I don't think I would've even cared about the use of that particular word in that context. Given, we only have his side of the story right now. Would be interesting to hear from fellow passengers or crew - the latter which is highly unlikely.

User currently offlineQuokkas From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (3 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 33833 times:

Quoting AS739BSI (Reply 9):
that the crew is strained due to preparation for departure.

They're strained simply by doing the job that they are trained and paid for? What a pathetic excuse. The FA could simply have said, "I'll come back after take off and we can talk about it then." If the blogger's version of events are correct and the FA did lie, that can not be justified by being a bit flustered because you have to check the overhead lockers are shut and someone's iPhone is off.

And even if he did use the word terrorist, does your average terrorist say, "I am a terrorist: here is my business card."? Simply training crew to react to certain words taken out of context is stupid. Listen to the whole sentence and it becomes clear that a person isn't a threat. No, if the blogger's version is true, this is yet another example of the abuse of power by someone who doesn't like to be questioned.

Someone once remarked that the problem with common sense is that it isn't all that common. The blogger showed a lack of sense in choosing to discuss the matter at that point pre departure. The FA showed it by choosing to escalate rather than defuse.

User currently offlinetoobz From Finland, joined Jan 2010, 888 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (3 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 33753 times:

After living in the US for over 20 years I've come to realize and accept that there is a huge book of words one should not use. Ironic being the land of the free and freedom of speech. Far from. This is another example of a senior dinosaur FA using pity power holding techniques.

User currently offlineRIXrat From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 804 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (3 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 33585 times:

Even eliminating the word "terrorist," don't many of us when going through the airport and security and then putting up with half-read edicts by the airlines, feel like we are being terrorised?

User currently offlinefca767 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2006, 1809 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (3 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 33444 times:

Quoting toobz (Reply 13):

After living in the US for over 20 years I've come to realize and accept that there is a huge book of words one should not use. Ironic being the land of the free and freedom of speech. Far from. This is another example of a senior dinosaur FA using pity power holding techniques.

Russia is land of the free

User currently offlineFlyDeltaJets From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1989 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (3 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 33385 times:

I thought about it, so what if he used the word terrorist. He didn't make a joke he was explaining himself. I think that he went out of his way to ensure that his actions WOULD'T be misconstrued by pulling her to the side after the initial confrontation.

The only valid opinions are those based in facts
User currently offlinetype-rated From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (3 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 33346 times:

Flight Attendants don't want to dance with you or have conversations with you, they want you to sit down, shut up and do what they tell you to do. It's been like this since 9/11. AA can be just as brutal as UA is in this regard.

User currently offlinevfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 4524 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (3 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 33342 times:

Fascinating how many fellow passengers have come forward in the comments' section of his blog, including the other guy who got a dressing down for taking a picture. While I took the report by the guy himself with a pinch of salt, the comments by fellow passengers seem to corroborate the story.

Honestly, FAs who feel that their main task is policing the aircraft by citing non-existing regulation and overinterpreting the company's T&C hidden somemwhere in the small print of the in-flight magazine (how about non-English speaking passengers, by the way?) have missed their job and they should consider working as a deputy with the local sheriff rather than in a customer service function. Yes, they are there for the safety of the plane, but this task should be understood as part of their job as a customer service representative. All too often nowadays rude and unprofessional behavior and the lack of common sense is excused with the "security" / "9/11" mantra. Quite honestly, if FAs are still so traumatized about 9/11 that they kick into full SWAT mode when the t-word is used in a completely inncoent context, they should better do a desk job on the ground.

User currently offlinerwsea From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 3286 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (3 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 33222 times:

Completely unacceptable. It doesn't matter if any "buzzword" was used by the passenger. He was trying to explain himself and establish a rapport with the crew. Busy or not with pre-take off activities, the FAs are first and foremost in a service position and need to conduct themselves with professionalism and honesty.

Personally, my view is that once they knew about the photos and the blog, they just didn't want to deal with the guy anymore. When you know that your lazy and apathetic service is going to be documented for the world to see, wouldn't you want to get rid of the "problem" too?!

User currently offlinefca767 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2006, 1809 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (3 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 33062 times:

Quoting type-rated (Reply 17):
Flight Attendants don't want to dance with you or have conversations with you, they want you to sit down, shut up and do what they tell you to do. It's been like this since 9/11. AA can be just as brutal as UA is in this regard.

Then they lose their customers...i want a dance with f/a's and i'll go to singapore, thai for that

User currently offlineCrimsonNL From Netherlands, joined Dec 2007, 2155 posts, RR: 26
Reply 21, posted (3 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 32868 times:

Indeed, the terrorists have won when 11.5 years after the attacks U.S. citizens are scared of a camera onboard an airplane.

I think this is pretty much the moral of this story.


Always comparing your flown types list with mine
User currently offlineltbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 13863 posts, RR: 17
Reply 22, posted (3 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 32347 times:

I could understand not allowing pictures without permission of anywhere near the cockpit area or of crew members for security reasons (UA lost 2 planes in 9/11) and not taking pictures when electronic items cannot be used during flight. F/A's and other crew may want no pictures for personal security and privacy reasons. UA may also have this ban to prevent the collection of proprietary information for use by competitors in the way they have their planes set up and as to security procedures. Also banning pictures prevents 'evidence' of alleged bad service, annoying other pax with camera flashes and those that want privacy, not wanting their picture taken without their permission.

Yes, it may be a stupid rule and could use some reasonable revision, I am quite sure many take pictures without any hassle or discipline by the F/A's, but some may see the policy as so absolute and their job to be strict as to it to keep their jobs, looking like a hero to their bosses.

User currently offlineIMissPiedmont From United States of America, joined May 2001, 6544 posts, RR: 29
Reply 23, posted (3 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 32358 times:

Quoting CrimsonNL (Reply 22):


Probably United has the no picture policy so no competitor can take a picture and make a better seat. Oh wait, it's too late.

The day you stop learning is the day you should die.
User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 10952 posts, RR: 33
Reply 24, posted (3 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 31417 times:

They can make rules as much as they like, these rules have to hold up with common law. There was a similar issue in Traons Magazine a couple of months ago about cops approaching train watchers and trying to forbid them making pictures. They have no legal reason, all it needs is politely (and stay polite) ask the officer "what have I done wrong".

Of course no one can take pictures of other persons but a simple seat? Totally unreasonable even to mention.

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25 bobnwa : In the US, anyone can sue any company or person for any reason.
26 Pellegrine : The FA was extremely rude and power-tripping. (Probably had a bad attitude too.) I'll agree that saying the word "terrorist" in any context won't go o
27 Post contains images EWRCabincrew : Just remember there are three sides to any story. Your side, their side and the truth. Please keep in mind I am defending no one with that statement (
28 vfw614 : I would say technically they can as it is their property and you are inside their aircraft, so they are exercising property rights (different story i
29 PanHAM : the difference to a chemical plant for instance is, that they are a common carrier and you have paid for a ticket and are legally on board. Taking a
30 A330 : As a current Widebody Captain, I feel compelled to participate in this topic. 1) There is NO SUCH THING as words that are forbidden to be told inside
31 avek00 : 1. Tier 8 law school students and young graduates tend to be socially inept and forever feel the need to "prove" themselves and win every argument. 2.
32 p201055r : So here we go again! The decision was made by the aircraft captain - that's what he's paid to do - but seems to have been made having denied the compl
33 DTWPurserBoy : You surrender certain "rights" when you board the airplane. You have agreed to follow all instructions given by the flight crew, no matter how silly o
34 kellmark : If an airline is going to have a policy like this it should be plainly worded and understandable and not conflict with itself (you can photograph a "p
35 Rising : Ignorantia juris non excusat- it is the general rule in the United States and most countries in Europe. Indeed, in this case, this is not a legal iss
36 Post contains images Polot : But you have to be careful with that. All of those commentators seemed to be friends (I don't find it to be a coincidence that all the commentators w
37 Post contains links tp1040 : You had better move. EasyJet And The "Bomb" Word - Overreaction? (by GilesDavies Feb 18 2013 in Civil Aviation)
38 cambridgeflyer1 : Don't AA have some silly policy like this? I was at T3 Heathrow taking photos and an AA staff member came and told me to delete all the photos of AA p
39 vfw614 : You are mixing up things here - "Ignorantia juris non excusat" or "nemo censetur ignorare legem" as a legal principle dealing with the ignorance of t
40 iFlyLOTs : Okay, here's my issue with the whole use of the word terrorist. No one that actually is what X organization or Y government considers a terrorist is g
41 SkyTeamTriStar : Funny thing is that on other airlines, once you get above 10,000ft you can operate a video camera. Delta's in-flight magazine, SKY.
42 awacsooner : I almost got booted off an AA A300 in 2002 at JFK for the same thing...and THEY used the t word towards me...a WHITE, skinny 19-year old college stude
43 PanHAM : taking pictures of people, regardless if crew or passengers, can be with their consent only. This here was taking pictures of a seat. I love this #1
44 Lufthansa : Right, so this justifies bad service, and attitude to premium passengers who are the backbone of the company's revenue and ultimately pay your wages.
45 Rising : I would encourage you to read my full post. In regard to: Respectfully, again, I would encourage you to read my full post.
46 Post contains images Lufthansa : Spot on! this attitude stinks! it forgets these people are CUSTOMERS and they are PAYING for a product!
47 jfklganyc : Guys, you are not in the land of the free on an airplane. You guys are aviation experts on here...you know what aviation has been through in the last
48 vfw614 : I did. Please explain someone who holds a law degree and is licenced to practice law what the legal principle of "ignorantia juris non excusat" has t
49 bueb0g : Well they can't make a rule that is flat out illegal but they certainly don't have to allow constitutional rights, or apply rules that specifically r
50 DTW2HYD : It is a norm in USA nowadays. Corporations are above everyone else. I know you refered a case from 1957, those were different times, if the same case
51 afterburner33 : My question is, what if all this had happened after the flight had departed? Would they have made a diversionary landing? Somehow I think not. I wonde
52 Lufthansa : Once again the attitude stinks. Nowhere did it say this guy was causing trouble. quite the opposite this guy is worth hundreds of thousands of dollar
53 Deltal1011man : He lost me when he dropped the t-word. A few things you just don't say on/near/around/about an airplane.....thats one of them.
54 CODC10 : Yes, the flight attendant's reaction was probably not in proportion to the infraction committed (if any) or the threat posed. Regardless, most Captain
55 PanHAM : Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin That was around
56 Post contains images vfw614 : Maybe it was an elaborate set-up to get rid of him for good then if this guy is costing UA money and exposing them to unwanted publicity in his blog
57 BC77008 : It seemed very, very odd to me that his fellow passengers found his blog and then left comments corroborating his side of the story. This definitely
58 Post contains images pacifique75 : Personally, as a F/A, I will only ask a passenger to stop taking photos if it is clear obvious will be in the picture or video or if their behaviour i
59 A330 : Some Cabin Crew and some flightcrew on US airlines are not only paranoia, they lack common sense, so much needed in this profession. this is one case
60 vfw614 : I would not read too much into this. There is also one fellow traveller who is criticizing the guy for not shutting up. In all fairness, if you keep
61 Post contains images CODC10 : These EWR-IST were on sale a few weeks ago in the ~$400 range and may have even been promoted by the blogger at issue, and they attracted a lot of at
62 sankaps : Well said. Everytime I hear someone (usually US airline employees) say "flying is a privilege, not a a right", it really irritates me. Do they even k
63 PanHAM : You see, I can't help it, we were taught at school, based on our history, exactly NOT to do that. We were also taught to question rules. I am aware o
64 CODC10 : There is a forum to question the propriety of rules, but it is generally not before a person who is merely attempting to enforce rules (even that is
65 brilondon : This blogger has to be either very naive or very stupid. If he is who he says he is, he would know the policy which is common to all U.S. carriers, yo
66 ScottB : I don't find this story to be outrageous. It seems like normal customer service at United.
67 silentbob : While you may not like, or agree with, some of the more obscure airline policies and regulations, flight attendants have no choice. They are required
68 Post contains images hoons90 : I will go out of my way to avoid United Airlines for all of my future travels.
69 Post contains images MaverickM11 : Every second, of every day, everyone sacrifices liberty in exchange for safety. Life would cease to function if we didn't.
70 Post contains images peanuts : And the sad part, most don't even realize it. They think it's perfectly normal. Terrorist, terrorist, terrorist...there, I said it, now what? It's si
71 MaverickM11 : You're going to find a nutso FA on a power trip on every airline.
72 MIAspotter : Total overreaction by the crew, but as many have pointed, it´s sadly the world we live in today. I also had a bit of a nasty experience on CO back in
73 Unflug : He fully obeyed the instructions he was given. Unfurtunately talking to the crew and informing them of his intentions is what brought him into troubl
74 vfw614 : He took a picture (which as per United's own rules is not prohibited, but allowed to "record personal events"). He was told not to do. He complied (a
75 135mech : Also, it's pathetic that the journalist that has spent an amazing amount of time on UA was thrown off, but NOT the idiot that was arguing with her and
76 CalebWilliams : I too found that strange, but we have no idea as to why those customers knew where to go. For all we know this guy is very out going and engaged some
77 avek00 : Matthew Klint has now gone to the press with his story. I hope he (and more importantly, his travel behaviors) will be prepared to undergo the scrutin
78 jayunited : United isn't the only U.S. airline with this policy and had this flight been going to a European or South American destination I pretty sure the FA wo
79 Post contains links vfw614 : So what's the point of accommodating the off-loaded passenger straight-away for free (including his complimentary upgrade), certainly at a much higher
80 ScottB : Simply untrue. If you instructed a passenger to strip naked in the aisle, do you expect that he/she agreed to comply with that instruction? But then
81 twincessna340a : Not the word I first thought he used. ICAO disagrees with you, as PanHAM explains: I can't believe nobody has referenced the airplane scene from "Mee
82 AA777 : Ugh. That story made my blood boil. I would have made sure that I got the names of all of the associated crew and told them that while I will step off
83 hrc773 : I understand you used the word "some" in an attempt to avoid making a generalization on US crews. Your comment is still worthless; there's good crews
84 sankaps : Of course there are good crew and bad crews everywhere. But much more of these kinds of incidents occur in the US, and I have no qualms in saying tha
85 B727FA : American "prevents" people from taking pictures on board. Now, do pics get taken? Yes, but if they say "no" you gotta stop. It's in their AmericanWay
86 1stfl94 : I think it's concerning just how little common sense the crew displayed on this flight. Maybe some retraining required...
87 jayunited : AS a passenger you have a right to complain about the service you receive while onboard an aircraft. That is not what happened here. The FA left and
88 vfw614 : Well, in any legal system I am aware of you are only bound by contractual obligations that you have had the chance to become aware of. Hence the need
89 hrc773 : I completely agree that the crew showed little common sense. But why throw in that they were Americans? Is this something that only an American crew
90 1stfl94 : To be honest I couldn't see it happening in other countries, most would have probably asked politely for a passenger to stop photographing rather tha
91 falstaff : I take pictures of stuff like that on DL all the time. I have taken photos all over the aircraft and nobody has said anything. I have even had FAs ta
92 Rising : Anyone surprised he went to the media? This is clearly a publicity stunt on the part of a 26 year old blogger, that has riled up people on here into
93 Post contains links sankaps : This thread reminds me of the 2011 incident, also on United, where an aircraft was brought back to the gate and a passenger questioned because he happ
94 ER757 : I'd agree with your comments except that the contradictory nature of UA's policy is well noted in reply #5. You can't tell people not to take photos
95 B727FA : But therein lies the rub: you're not trapped. You had the opportunity/obligation to read the Contract of Carriage before you * voluntarily* boarded.
96 vfw614 : Apparently United is already in damage control mode as their comment to NBC was rather defensive and they have reached out to the blogger (he says in
97 sankaps : The contract of carriage includes the warning on photography then?
98 Post contains images jayunited : If you believe that you are right and that there is nothing wrong with using the word "terrorist" onboard a plane while talking to a FA why don't you
99 vfw614 : Please explain - how can I learn of my legal obligation not to take pictures on board (and, for that matter, all other obligations laid out in the in
100 drgmobile : This is ridiculous. People were born with brains so that they could evaluate situations with common sense. Would it be acceptable to kick somebody of
101 Post contains links DTW2HYD : I wonder what to happened to all those policies on this United revenue flight. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c317nBY1uSc
102 Post contains links and images EWRCabincrew : Where do I start... As for the blogger...he writes with a huge slant, albeit his own, on life and his perception of things (case in point this: http:/
103 Alias1024 : Let's look at this from the flight attendant's point of view instead of the passenger's. The FA has asked him to stop taking photographs, he appears t
104 IrishAyes : It is basically a given here in the US. The instant you mention the word "bomb" or "terrorist" on an airplane, at an airport, or basically within ear
105 manny : Its unfortunate that a stupid FA on a power trip ended up ruining this person's journey. Just unacceptable. Such FA's who defy common sense have no jo
106 JAAlbert : The stated UAL policy expressly permits the sort of photos we take. I have often been in the position of wondering if I can snap a picture - some FAs
107 catiii : So the to further add to the hypocrisy of an airline that encourages its customers, through its offal social media outlets, to post photos of their t
108 ozark1 : I have mixed feelings about this one. I have no idea what the personality is of the blogger, but perhaps that combined with a particular personality o
109 meister808 : No, it doesn't justify anything. The fact is, you buy a ticket, the company you buy that ticket from has an obligation to honor that ticket and provi
110 sankaps : 9/11 was terrible, but I'm sorry to say that if 12 years on one blames that for poor customer handling and power trips today, then I suggest perhaps
111 planesntrains : It seems very rude to do that. We see a lot of things everyday but it's usually a few people that are the bad ones. Most people could take a picture
112 Unflug : Where did you read that he became disrupted and disorderly?
113 Post contains images B727FA : Not at all; but sarcastically suggesting a flight should be delayed to see "...what further contractual obligations" can be gleaned from the inflight
114 type-rated : If an airline doesn't want people taking photos, then put it in the contract of carriage. Don't hide it in some magazine that someone may never look a
115 sankaps : I have never had problems taking photos on AA flights. Don't fly UA much though, and perhaps it is a good thing as I enjoy taking photos when I fly.
116 Post contains images MaverickM11 : Did you intend to make this statement as ridiculous as it sounds? And they're at every carrier, but in some places you can reprimand that behavior--j
117 jayunited : The Contract of Carriage is available in its entirety on United.com just like it is for all airlines. It is your responsibility to read this before y
118 sankaps : So saying "I am not a terrorist" is worse than disobeying crew instructions? Because clearly that's what actual terrorists do, call FAs over and tell
119 AADC10 : I believe there is a video rights issue when photographing a video screen. It is akin to recording in a theater. Obviously the image was only the star
120 sankaps : He followed the crewmember's instructions anddid not take any more photos. Therefore as per your logic above, he should not have been booted off the
121 tp1040 : The whole thing comes down to this. They haven't even pushed back and this guy is not going to "let go" of being told what to do by the F/A. He just h
122 richierich : If you live in the UK, you do live like that. Maybe not as much as we do across the pond though. Back to topic The guy used the word "terrorist". Of
123 type-rated : It's not ridiculous. How many people do YOU know that read UA's inflight magazine cover to cover each time they fly? If they won't put it in the cont
124 n92r03 : Honestly, the author sounds like a little bitch. If he is a 1k member how come he has never flown in the biz/first seat? Dropping the terrorist refere
125 motif1 : The FA should not have escalated the issue! I think that the author thought it would put the FA at ease by explaining himself. I blame the whole thing
126 Post contains images AeroWesty : By telling the FA that he regularly blogs about United and that the folks in Chicago are aware of him? What was she to think? That the episode would
127 vfw614 : OK, I will put it differently: Please show me the section in the contract of carriage that makes it my contractual obligation not to take pictures (so
128 brilondon : Do you think that there is more to the story than just his side from his blog? Although I can say that I am surprised it was UA that had the crappy se
129 catiii : So does the contract of carriage for UA go into prohibitions on photography in the cabin and prohibitions on usage of certain words, and also stipula
130 flyfree727 : I am sure UA would disagree with you.. FA's, are FIRST and foremost in a SAFETY position. If asked at ANY interview with any major carrier what your
131 kann123air : Yes. Just ask Alex Baldwin.
132 TheRedBaron : Since 2001 the real terrorists have won. The REAL ones wont use the T word...good grief!!! by their driving indeed they are !!!!! I used to laugh abo
133 strfyr51 : the Captain and the cabin crew are there to enforce Policy, either you follow the policy or you fly someone ELSE! If the policy is in PLACE? it's the
134 Post contains images hoons90 : For the umpteenth time, he did comply with the flight attendants' instructions. The guy who didn't was allowed to stay on the plane.
135 lychemsa : You are young. When you get to my age you learn that it's better to stop the discussion. 1. You should not have started again the discussion with her.
136 cosyr : On my recent trip back from London, I was excited to be on ship 001 Gordon M Bethune, and the FA's encouraged me to take pictures of the plaque, them
137 catiii : She started the discussion with him when she decided she wanted to play Air Marshal over him taking a photo of the AVOD screen. Age has nothing to do
138 KAUSpilot : This is the problem with many US carriers today, especially, UA/AA/US. F/A's get the idea in their head that they're ONLY there for "safety" and tota
139 motif1 : She could have just said that she didn't need more explanation and that as long as the passenger was complying with instructions everything was fine.
140 BN747dfwhnl : Furthering this view: If taking a photo on board the aircraft is such an important issue, then why is it not addressed directly during pre-boarding a
141 AA87 : all comes down to personality of the crew. Some hate their jobs and/or people, and instead of being a "customer service rep" with 50-300 strangers eac
142 Post contains links Quokkas : Here is the relevent document (updated as at February 7, 2013) http://www.united.com/web/format/pdf/Contract_of_Carriage.pdf Can you show me where it
143 spacecadet : Two points: 1) This is the problem with US airlines. If FA's are first and foremost there for safety reasons, then they are highly overpaid because t
144 YYZAMS : So who are the famous pilot and flight attendant so can start taking pictures from the the jetbridge to seat?
145 gasman : Very well put. I fly internally in the US about once or twice a year, and on overseas legacy carriers about 8 times a year. In my experience, this ar
146 Post contains images hoons90 : x1000 Bravo. Brilliant post. People keep forgetting that the passenger in question did stop taking photographs after being asked to do so. It appears
147 flyenthu : This is why they lose business....
148 EWRCabincrew : Some or few do, not as a whole.
149 enginebird : This has "power trip", paranoia and lack of common sense written all over it. It is also why many people, including myself, avoid US-based airlines l
150 Post contains links jreuschl : http://www.airlinereporter.com/2012/...nes-flight-from-denver-to-burbank/ Can only imagine how that FA would have responded to that request!
151 Alias1024 : That's the thing, we don't really know in what way the flight attendant percieved his manner when he approached her. He may have been trying to be re
152 Post contains images hoons90 : Having a threatening demeanor while handing out a business card? "Do you know who I am?!? I'm a TRAVEL BLOG WRITER!" Please.
153 Capt.Fantastic : It seems many here are assuming what this guy wrote is completely accurate. You're only seeing one side which I highly doubt is unbiased. For all we k
154 hoons90 : Perhaps he thought he got off on the wrong foot and wanted to make amends and build some rapport with the cabin crew on what is a long flight in the
155 BLRAviation : I left this comment on the site.
156 TheCommodore : They lost me years ago with the shitty service and ratty old F/A's How was he to know it was in the "magazine" ? I very rarely even bother reading th
157 type-rated : When I had an incident on an AA 777 a few years ago I had an incident with a few FA's because I wanted to walk around the 777 and have a look during t
158 PanHAM : That was my thinking as well. I suggest that the last super merger should take place in the US and the emerging airline called either Ameriflot or ,
159 AndyEastMids : Sheesh, I had a really lucky escape... I flew on a UA 787 late last year and I took pictures of the cabin, the IFE, the BF seats, the electronic windo
160 flyglobal : Would like to hear your opinion on a scenario situation: What would have happened if the blogger would have informed gate agents / Police/ UA ground s
161 777STL : There's no excuse for the way the FA acted, but as someone commented on the blog, he should have chose his battles more carefully. The second exchange
162 DTWPurserBoy : Common civility is gone from US air travel. People do not even say "please", "thank you" or even acknowledge you when you say "hi, welcome aboard." Th
163 DTW2HYD : A Travel Blogger with almost Million miles who walked in with an expectation celebrity treatment met his match of a FA who got up wrong side of the be
164 CalebWilliams : I hate to break it to you, but every generation says that about the generation that follows them, not realizing they that generation was in fact rais
165 flyglobal : Again, Would like to hear peoples opinion on a scenario situation: What would have happened if the blogger would have informed gate agents / Police/ U
166 bennett123 : So far, there is no evidence of him complaining to UA or any statement by UA.. Or did I miss it?.
167 motif1 : I read somewhere that United is aware of the blog and they are in contact with him. Just checked Matthew's blog. He updated it today: "United has rea
168 sankaps : I quite agree, L410. Obviously any disciplinary action would follow an investigation of on-job performance, and one cannot be fired for anonymously b
169 hoons90 : I'm quite sure that most other DL F/As don't share the same attitude as him. I've had good experiences with them. However, he's certainly not doing h
170 B727FA : Wow. Paranoid much?
171 Post contains links psa188 : I hope this story goes viral like that “United breaks guitars” thing a while ago. UA deserves all the bad publicity for allowing something like th
172 AeroWesty : Of course not, that's the new way to get attention. He admits as much at the end of his blog post, "United has not been contacted yet, but I will sen
173 psa188 : The updates that I linked to above indicate that UA is aware of the issue and they have been in contact. Thank you.
174 hoons90 : What happened to him was beyond outrageous, and I don't blame him for putting it up on the blogosphere. Who says you only have to write about good ex
175 psa188 : Thank you. This cuts through all the bull. UA needs to admit that their crew overreacted in this case. They also need to get rid of that gawdawful ph
176 ckfred : Most policies I've read say no taking pictures of the flight crew, as well as other passengers without their permission. But the rest of UA' policy se
177 AeroWesty : He admitted to waiting for 3 days before going to press about his experience. In that timeframe, he could have reached out to his contacts at UA, or
178 sankaps : I don't think there is any set rule in a supposedly free country, not even in the inflight magazine, outlining how long one must wait before blogging
179 AeroWesty : Have you ever read an article in the normal press where the author will write something like "so-and-so was contacted for their response" yadda, yadd
180 catiii : Funny, sounds like the demeanor of some of the flight attendants on any number of my recent flights. This little soliloquy of yours sounds like a fee
181 Post contains images EWRCabincrew : I have read more about this and saddened by the way things were handled. It could have been dealt with so much better than this. Too bad that the old
182 vfw614 : It's a personal blog this guy writes for, not the Wahington Post. And he is not after the Pulitzer price either. He is telling a personal experience,
183 sankaps : A blog is not the normal press. It is a platform for expressing personal views and experiences. Such as one's experience when travelling. And as for
184 hoons90 : I applaud you for your brilliant post and would feel honored to be on one of your flights. You're right, there are good and bad apples everywhere. Pe
185 AeroWesty : LOL, a what? A personal blog? No, it's not a personal blog, like you or I would type up in our spare time. We're talking about a commercial venture h
186 AA777 : Its amazing to me how many people here are so complacent and fearful. People actually believe this F/A was in the right when she and the captain were
187 hoons90 : I don't think it really matters, because whatever happened, happened. United's response to the situation won't really change what had already transpi
188 sankaps : It does not matter. A blog is a blog, it is for people to post their personal views. Just like you are posting your views here. On a site that also h
189 EWRCabincrew : Thank you, very much! This industry already does have many people like me. We are there every day, every flight. We just don't get blogged about, or
190 AeroWesty : You and I are simply going to have to view the definition of sandbagging, and how Matthew used his trump card, differently. He had three days and a G
191 Post contains images MadameConcorde : My answer to this whole story is BOYCOTT. I am a former pre-merger United Million Miler and many years 1K the only thing I can say is I have lost int
192 brilondon : But they are right. I agree with you completely. I only hope that the F/A's on US based carriers would experience what real customer service is all a
193 sankaps : Unfortunately there is only one correct, accepted definition of sandbagging, and it is not the one you are using. But as you say, we digress.
194 BN747 : Excellent post..and simply affirming what's been known for the last 15-20 years, US carriers adopted 'a must make a profit above all else' attitude b
195 jreuschl : Ladies and gentlemen. We have 2 exhibits for you. A. EWRCabincrew B. DTWPurserBoy In this thread. There are also opposite examples in the comments sec
196 vegas005 : Well said Captain!!!!!
197 brilondon : If you are asked to do something just do it. What is the big deal here? I can see not having a camera out for take off and landing, during turbulence
198 sankaps : So did you even read the original blog or this thread? The pax did what he was asked to do. He stopped taking photos. Please at least have some grasp
199 Post contains links vfw614 : I am quoting myself as I have just become aware of this really interesting post by an UA customer who indeed confirms my concerns - check it out: htt
200 PanAmPaul : I would like to second the motion. In contrast to some of the more bizarre statements made by cabin crew here, the post you referenced just makes sen
201 AeroWesty : Did you also read comment #18, where the writer suggests he gets an authorization to take photos in flight "as part of your blogging duties (member o
202 flyfree727 : Well, according to the PAX he did what he was asked to do. You believe him.. the fa said he didn't. Some belive her. Why is everyone so quick to beli
203 Quokkas : If the blogger's version is correct then their PR department have contacted him, not someone from Customer Relations or in any position to provide re
204 Post contains links AeroWesty : The blogger in question isn't expecting one. See his post on FT: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/20295430-post270.html
205 aklrno : After reading 218 posts on this topic, I just had to jump in. Maybe we all (and I include UA) need to think about why photos would not be permitted on
206 Post contains images Rising : This has to be on of the most frustrating topics discussed on here in a long time as it, while popular and certainly stirred interest, has hurt the r
207 billreid : This whole argument sickens me. It defines the absolute destruction of America. It is sick, ill, insanity. America sells fear. Where is fiduciary res
208 Unflug : Several other passengers have given their side of the story, and they all supported the bloggers view. Is it the bloggers fault that UA does not offe
209 Rising : We have no way to verify that these "other passengers" are neutral observers and were party to the entire conversation with all parties involved. So
210 Unflug : You can't blame the blogger for the airline (as most corporations) not having a clue how to deal with changing realities. The world has changed. Toda
211 BLRAviation : Understandable. But are you fair in your implementation? i.e. have you ever kicked out a crew member for being rude to a passenger?
212 LoneStarMike : What about the guy who had his guitar destroyed by United? He went through all the normal channels and got absolutely nowhere. If was only after his
213 AeroWesty : What about him? I really don't see the comparison you're trying to make here. Matthew (the blogger) admits to having insider contacts at United. But
214 Post contains images TheCommodore : Very Good Question
215 RIXrat : I don't think that the blogger had a dog in the fight. Reading some of his previous blogs, he seems pretty friendly toward UA and it would seem rather
216 LoneStarMike : Did he blog about it so his site would get more hits? Or did he blog about it because he didn't want to see the same thing happen to someone else? (o
217 Post contains images BLRAviation : I think that is the crux of this discussion. Yes, there is a need for security. I think every forum member including the writer of the article acknow
218 okAY : We only know the side of the guy who wrote this article. On his own blog, as far as I understood. I'd like to hear the other side of the story, as wel
219 Maverick623 : In the US, one does not have an explicit right to privacy in a public setting. If you are on the street, at the mall, in an airport, or on an airplan
220 okAY : This is so in many countries. However, publishing photos with other people in it is controlled and one needs to be careful not to break other person'
221 mjoelnir : Nobody seems to mention the following: you booting somebody of the plane you have to find his luggage and remove it from the plane. What does it take,
222 AeroWesty : I feel sorry for you that you feel so unvalued by the companies you patronize that you feel in order to receive an acceptable level of respect as a c
223 BLRAviation : From the story it appears Mr. Klint did follow the "no photography" rule as soon as he was informed of it. He appears to suffered a momentary lapse o
224 Post contains images BLRAviation : Let's see if we get a response to that.
225 LoneStarMike : Go back and re-read my post. I said if I were ever in a situation where I felt I was right and the crew (or an employee of any company) were wrong, I
226 BN747 : ..a related headline link from 'the source' article above... Delta Offers Gold Status To Victims Of Psychotic American Airlines Stewardess I have rea
227 mjoelnir : I am flying to a lot to out of the way places and have to use many different airlines so even if I fly a lot it is only Icelandair I have a preferred
228 PanHAM : sorry, but you are only guilty when proven guilty. This can happen only in a court and only a judge can rule that. until proven guilty, you are assum
229 Maverick623 : I'd have the whole thing on video and audio, unless of course the CoC I agreed to when I bought my ticket (little notes in the onboard magazine are N
230 LoneStarMike : I'm not sure about video recordings, but as far as audio recordings go, it doesn't matter whether or not the airline's CoC permits it or not. What ma
231 okAY : Granted I am not a lawyer and not familiar with the US laws, I find it difficult to believe that any company policy would be considered higher than t
232 sankaps : Yup, the blogger and ALL of the witnesses are not to be trusted, because we ALL know that on US airlines, FAs NEVER go on a power trip and these kind
233 mjoelnir : In Europe it is one of the safety issues. When you boot somebody of the aeroplane because he uses the word terrorist and you raise safety issues, you
234 sankaps : Excellent point, mjoelnir. Further dismantles the phony "safety" argument used to justify such actions.
235 okAY : How many bombs did the terrorists carry on 911?
236 mjoelnir : So no air plane has been downed by a bomb? And they do not look for bombs? And the luggage, but no passenger trick has not been used? The only terror
237 LoneStarMike : But the blogger was on an international flight from Newark to Istanbul, so if he had checked luggage, wouldn't it have to be removed? LoneStarMike
238 okAY : You missed my point. I used 911 as an example of a terrorist attack executed without bombs. Of course there are unfortunate examples of terrorist att
239 okAY : Yes, if the passenger is booted, so is his/her checked in luggage.
240 AeroWesty : From the reports, the plane was already running late. The captain taking extra time to resolve a situation, which the cabin crew should have been cap
241 PanHAM : to answer your question, very few. The one I can remember, besides Lockerbie, is a UTA DC10 that exploded over Africa, I believe it was in Tchad airs
242 okAY : I think Air India Flight 182 had more influence on this rule being imposed.
243 mjoelnir : The point I made, all the same if the luggage had to go because this was an international flight or by principle, by booting this guy of the plane the
244 Post contains links BLRAviation : Lets be honest here. What do you believe would take more time? Resolution or booting? Booting Klint of the plane mandatorily requires removal of his
245 PanHAM : definately in FRA, since Fraport was directly involved, the luggage was transferred from a KM flight ex MLA to a PA 727 feedre flight to LHR. The AI
246 Post contains links sankaps : I fully agree. Bombs in luggage is still a huge threat, and throwing someone off the flight for saying "I am not a terrorist" without removing his ba
247 sankaps : See above. 26 incidents in all, including a whole lot in the modern jet age.
248 okAY : I did write earlier this:
249 sankaps : And in this specific case, how would it have helped the Captain and his goal to get the flight out without further delay? The Captain is quoted as sa
250 okAY : Well, how I see it is that the Captain had decided to offload the pax. What had influenced him to do so, only he knows, I guess. The fact that the fl
251 vfw614 : Just to add to your thought, I would assume that with a large airline such as UA there is a good chance that the flight attendant is as much a strang
252 sankaps : Sure, but that does not explain the overall "safety is why we are doing this" logic. I believe the crew knew / found out in advance he did not have c
253 Post contains images okAY : We start to assume a lot here, but that is what this forum is for Safety is not the only reason why pax get booted. Disruptive behavior is enough. Wh
254 sankaps : One can and should only be booted for disuptive behaviour if it is a safety or security risk, or if the behaviour is negatively impacting other passe
255 okAY : We only have one side to this story. Thus such assumption is not legitimate, in my eyes anyway.
256 sankaps : If United had any clue about how to represent itself on social networks (other than have silly Q&A sessions and quizzes on Twitter), we would hav
257 PanHAM : even if you count in the early insurance fraud cases 26 incidents in 60 years is nothing compared to the number of flights. I say again, after Locker
258 AeroWesty : To come out of the cockpit, get fully up on the situation from each side, which would of course have involved the witnesses, we're talking a lot more
259 PanAmPaul : Blogs are almost always personal to some extent, if merely by definition. Bloggers are typically not afforded the same rights and protections as jour
260 Post contains links AeroWesty : And there is a whole commercial side to the blogosphere as well. Would you say that Randy's Journal at Boeing was a personal blog or a commercial blo
261 sankaps : And this is completely irrelevant to the issue at hand.
262 sankaps : Don't disagree, Pan HAM. Was only correcting that statement that there were only 3 inflight bomb incidents in the history of commercial flight. Havin
263 AeroWesty : Again, you and I will have to agree to disagree, especially since you're not giving any reason for your opinion. Any further discussion on this, base
264 sankaps : Based on comments such as the one quoted above on US to IST airfares, I have to say I violently agree with you on this.
265 Post contains links AeroWesty : You may disagree all day, but fact is fact. Here's just one of many examples of fares in that price range from U.S. points to IST which have been ava
266 Post contains links DTW2HYD : Even a well known Avilation Journalist with press credentials would not have made that joke aboard a plane. If that is his openening line to break the
267 sankaps : There was no joke made; the the rest of your assessment is therefore based on a false assumption.
268 PanHAM : it may be off topic or not, the topic is aviation security and I mentioned that, as long as the policy that luggage does not fly when the passenger i
269 iowaman : Greetings fellow members, After deleting numerous posts I feel this thread has ran its' course. This thread will be archived. Kevin/iowaman
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