It's an outrage that the FA got all pissy about taking a harmless photo on a plane. Unfortunately the use of the t-word probably ruined the situation, but the FA's initial behaviour was out of line. The guy should try filling out the complaint at http://www.untied.com/
AeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 18844 posts, RR: 64 Reply 2, posted (3 months 13 hours ago) and read 31642 times:
Quoting psa188 (Thread starter): It's an outrage that the FA got all pissy about taking a harmless photo on a plane.
In my opinion, he really pushed it using the t-word when attempting to offer his business card and explanation to the FA later. Sometimes you need to know when to drop it, and realize you aren't going to make a bad situation any better.
I haven't been all that impressed with the blogger in question anyway, so I'll leave my comments there. There's a rather long thread on FT about the blog post, too.
jayeshrulz From India, joined Apr 2007, 1000 posts, RR: 4 Reply 4, posted (3 months 13 hours ago) and read 31282 times:
UA crews do have a little attitude. Ive noticed it too fairly well when I used to work in BOM airport. Its a hit or miss. Sometimes you get extreme good crew, sometimes you get husbands who fought with their wives and have come onboard
Nevertheless, UA owes him a big apology, and I guess UA can be sued for that?
catiii From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 2277 posts, RR: 3 Reply 5, posted (3 months 12 hours ago) and read 30932 times:
The UA policy is contradictory and, thusly, stupid. UA maintains a Facebook, Instagram, and twitter page in which customers are encouraged to share photos of their UA travel experience. Now how does that square with thei posted policy in their magazine, which by the way no,one ever reads. If this were such an important policy, then why aren't any announcements ever made reminding pax about the no photo rule?
OB1504 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2966 posts, RR: 8 Reply 6, posted (3 months 11 hours ago) and read 30778 times:
Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 2): In my opinion, he really pushed it using the t-word when attempting to offer his business card and explanation to the FA later. Sometimes you need to know when to drop it, and realize you aren't going to make a bad situation any better.
The flight attendant was definitely overreacting (especially considering the negative publicity that this will get for UA), but the passenger ended up digging his own grave by blurting out "terrorist" on a flight to the Middle East area.
Lufthansa From Christmas Island, joined May 1999, 3074 posts, RR: 10 Reply 7, posted (3 months 11 hours ago) and read 30623 times:
I'm with the blogger. He's an elite status high value customer.
This FA is probably just shitty he called her out on her actions, then embarrassed (obviously by running away,
if she firmly believed she was in the right she wouldn't have felt the need to hide) by her obvious over reaction.
This kind of thing shouldn't be tolerated. This is the exact kind of customer any company wants to retain. A
high value one that is also a high repeat customer. Now after this experience, lets say the guy decides to fly
on a long flight up the front on a carrier like Etihad, Emirates, singapore or even Thai? It ain't rocket science to
know what happens next. United permanently loses the customer where there is a choice. It's staff like this, who have forgotten that these people pay their wages ultimately, that are the dead wood in the system.
ba319-131 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 8264 posts, RR: 56 Reply 8, posted (3 months 10 hours ago) and read 30451 times:
Now he should not have used the T word, that was a stupid move, that aside, it just shows how Americans have become scared of their own shadow, it's really quite sad this once great nation now views every move by others as something potentially dangerous.
AS739BSI From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 103 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (3 months 10 hours ago) and read 30443 times:
As soon as you mention the word terrorist and the Captain will probably trust his flight crew more than a frequent flier, he kind of dug his own grave as soon as he mentioned that. A flight attendant on UA responded to his posting and mentioned how pre-flight that the crew is strained due to preparation for departure. It probably would have been best to deal with the incident after arrival in Istanbul. Just my 2 cents.
Harmonium From Denmark, joined Feb 2012, 81 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (3 months 10 hours ago) and read 30111 times:
Isn't it ridiculous that you cannot even mention the word 'terrorist' anymore? I certainly think so. Come on, it's not like(according to his statement) he was yelling about terrorism and bombs throughout the aircraft. From what I can read he quietly explained the situation and his reasons for taking photos on board. I don't think I would've even cared about the use of that particular word in that context. Given, we only have his side of the story right now. Would be interesting to hear from fellow passengers or crew - the latter which is highly unlikely.
Quokkas From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 12, posted (3 months 9 hours ago) and read 30023 times:
Quoting AS739BSI (Reply 9): that the crew is strained due to preparation for departure.
They're strained simply by doing the job that they are trained and paid for? What a pathetic excuse. The FA could simply have said, "I'll come back after take off and we can talk about it then." If the blogger's version of events are correct and the FA did lie, that can not be justified by being a bit flustered because you have to check the overhead lockers are shut and someone's iPhone is off.
And even if he did use the word terrorist, does your average terrorist say, "I am a terrorist: here is my business card."? Simply training crew to react to certain words taken out of context is stupid. Listen to the whole sentence and it becomes clear that a person isn't a threat. No, if the blogger's version is true, this is yet another example of the abuse of power by someone who doesn't like to be questioned.
Someone once remarked that the problem with common sense is that it isn't all that common. The blogger showed a lack of sense in choosing to discuss the matter at that point pre departure. The FA showed it by choosing to escalate rather than defuse.
toobz From Finland, joined Jan 2010, 673 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (3 months 9 hours ago) and read 29944 times:
After living in the US for over 20 years I've come to realize and accept that there is a huge book of words one should not use. Ironic being the land of the free and freedom of speech. Far from. This is another example of a senior dinosaur FA using pity power holding techniques.
fca767 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2006, 1720 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (3 months 8 hours ago) and read 29634 times:
Quoting toobz (Reply 13):
After living in the US for over 20 years I've come to realize and accept that there is a huge book of words one should not use. Ironic being the land of the free and freedom of speech. Far from. This is another example of a senior dinosaur FA using pity power holding techniques.
FlyDeltaJets From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1623 posts, RR: 3 Reply 16, posted (3 months 8 hours ago) and read 29576 times:
I thought about it, so what if he used the word terrorist. He didn't make a joke he was explaining himself. I think that he went out of his way to ensure that his actions WOULD'T be misconstrued by pulling her to the side after the initial confrontation.
type-rated From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 4349 posts, RR: 20 Reply 17, posted (3 months 8 hours ago) and read 29536 times:
Flight Attendants don't want to dance with you or have conversations with you, they want you to sit down, shut up and do what they tell you to do. It's been like this since 9/11. AA can be just as brutal as UA is in this regard.
Fly North Central Airlines..The route of the Northliners!
vfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 3592 posts, RR: 5 Reply 18, posted (3 months 8 hours ago) and read 29533 times:
Fascinating how many fellow passengers have come forward in the comments' section of his blog, including the other guy who got a dressing down for taking a picture. While I took the report by the guy himself with a pinch of salt, the comments by fellow passengers seem to corroborate the story.
Honestly, FAs who feel that their main task is policing the aircraft by citing non-existing regulation and overinterpreting the company's T&C hidden somemwhere in the small print of the in-flight magazine (how about non-English speaking passengers, by the way?) have missed their job and they should consider working as a deputy with the local sheriff rather than in a customer service function. Yes, they are there for the safety of the plane, but this task should be understood as part of their job as a customer service representative. All too often nowadays rude and unprofessional behavior and the lack of common sense is excused with the "security" / "9/11" mantra. Quite honestly, if FAs are still so traumatized about 9/11 that they kick into full SWAT mode when the t-word is used in a completely inncoent context, they should better do a desk job on the ground.
rwsea From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 3014 posts, RR: 2 Reply 19, posted (3 months 7 hours ago) and read 29413 times:
Completely unacceptable. It doesn't matter if any "buzzword" was used by the passenger. He was trying to explain himself and establish a rapport with the crew. Busy or not with pre-take off activities, the FAs are first and foremost in a service position and need to conduct themselves with professionalism and honesty.
Personally, my view is that once they knew about the photos and the blog, they just didn't want to deal with the guy anymore. When you know that your lazy and apathetic service is going to be documented for the world to see, wouldn't you want to get rid of the "problem" too?!
fca767 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2006, 1720 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (3 months 7 hours ago) and read 29253 times:
Quoting type-rated (Reply 17): Flight Attendants don't want to dance with you or have conversations with you, they want you to sit down, shut up and do what they tell you to do. It's been like this since 9/11. AA can be just as brutal as UA is in this regard.
Then they lose their customers...i want a dance with f/a's and i'll go to singapore, thai for that
ltbewr From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 12333 posts, RR: 12 Reply 22, posted (3 months 6 hours ago) and read 28537 times:
I could understand not allowing pictures without permission of anywhere near the cockpit area or of crew members for security reasons (UA lost 2 planes in 9/11) and not taking pictures when electronic items cannot be used during flight. F/A's and other crew may want no pictures for personal security and privacy reasons. UA may also have this ban to prevent the collection of proprietary information for use by competitors in the way they have their planes set up and as to security procedures. Also banning pictures prevents 'evidence' of alleged bad service, annoying other pax with camera flashes and those that want privacy, not wanting their picture taken without their permission.
Yes, it may be a stupid rule and could use some reasonable revision, I am quite sure many take pictures without any hassle or discipline by the F/A's, but some may see the policy as so absolute and their job to be strict as to it to keep their jobs, looking like a hero to their bosses.
PanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 7771 posts, RR: 26 Reply 24, posted (3 months 5 hours ago) and read 27608 times:
They can make rules as much as they like, these rules have to hold up with common law. There was a similar issue in Traons Magazine a couple of months ago about cops approaching train watchers and trying to forbid them making pictures. They have no legal reason, all it needs is politely (and stay polite) ask the officer "what have I done wrong".
Of course no one can take pictures of other persons but a simple seat? Totally unreasonable even to mention.
Buten und binnen, wagen un winnen
25 bobnwa: In the US, anyone can sue any company or person for any reason.
26 Pellegrine: The FA was extremely rude and power-tripping. (Probably had a bad attitude too.) I'll agree that saying the word "terrorist" in any context won't go o
27 EWRCabincrew: Just remember there are three sides to any story. Your side, their side and the truth. Please keep in mind I am defending no one with that statement (
28 vfw614: I would say technically they can as it is their property and you are inside their aircraft, so they are exercising property rights (different story i
29 PanHAM: the difference to a chemical plant for instance is, that they are a common carrier and you have paid for a ticket and are legally on board. Taking a
30 A330: As a current Widebody Captain, I feel compelled to participate in this topic. 1) There is NO SUCH THING as words that are forbidden to be told inside
31 avek00: 1. Tier 8 law school students and young graduates tend to be socially inept and forever feel the need to "prove" themselves and win every argument. 2.
32 p201055r: So here we go again! The decision was made by the aircraft captain - that's what he's paid to do - but seems to have been made having denied the compl
33 DTWPurserBoy: You surrender certain "rights" when you board the airplane. You have agreed to follow all instructions given by the flight crew, no matter how silly o
34 kellmark: If an airline is going to have a policy like this it should be plainly worded and understandable and not conflict with itself (you can photograph a "p
35 Rising: Ignorantia juris non excusat- it is the general rule in the United States and most countries in Europe. Indeed, in this case, this is not a legal iss
36 Polot: But you have to be careful with that. All of those commentators seemed to be friends (I don't find it to be a coincidence that all the commentators w
37 tp1040: You had better move. EasyJet And The "Bomb" Word - Overreaction? (by GilesDavies Feb 18 2013 in Civil Aviation)
38 cambridgeflyer1: Don't AA have some silly policy like this? I was at T3 Heathrow taking photos and an AA staff member came and told me to delete all the photos of AA p
39 vfw614: You are mixing up things here - "Ignorantia juris non excusat" or "nemo censetur ignorare legem" as a legal principle dealing with the ignorance of t
40 iFlyLOTs: Okay, here's my issue with the whole use of the word terrorist. No one that actually is what X organization or Y government considers a terrorist is g
41 SkyTeamTriStar: Funny thing is that on other airlines, once you get above 10,000ft you can operate a video camera. Delta's in-flight magazine, SKY.
42 awacsooner: I almost got booted off an AA A300 in 2002 at JFK for the same thing...and THEY used the t word towards me...a WHITE, skinny 19-year old college stude
43 PanHAM: taking pictures of people, regardless if crew or passengers, can be with their consent only. This here was taking pictures of a seat. I love this #1
44 Lufthansa: Right, so this justifies bad service, and attitude to premium passengers who are the backbone of the company's revenue and ultimately pay your wages.
45 Rising: I would encourage you to read my full post. In regard to: Respectfully, again, I would encourage you to read my full post.
46 Lufthansa: Spot on! this attitude stinks! it forgets these people are CUSTOMERS and they are PAYING for a product!
47 jfklganyc: Guys, you are not in the land of the free on an airplane. You guys are aviation experts on here...you know what aviation has been through in the last
48 vfw614: I did. Please explain someone who holds a law degree and is licenced to practice law what the legal principle of "ignorantia juris non excusat" has t
49 bueb0g: Well they can't make a rule that is flat out illegal but they certainly don't have to allow constitutional rights, or apply rules that specifically r
50 DTW2HYD: It is a norm in USA nowadays. Corporations are above everyone else. I know you refered a case from 1957, those were different times, if the same case
51 afterburner33: My question is, what if all this had happened after the flight had departed? Would they have made a diversionary landing? Somehow I think not. I wonde
52 Lufthansa: Once again the attitude stinks. Nowhere did it say this guy was causing trouble. quite the opposite this guy is worth hundreds of thousands of dollar
53 Deltal1011man: He lost me when he dropped the t-word. A few things you just don't say on/near/around/about an airplane.....thats one of them.
54 CODC10: Yes, the flight attendant's reaction was probably not in proportion to the infraction committed (if any) or the threat posed. Regardless, most Captain
55 PanHAM: Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin That was around
56 vfw614: Maybe it was an elaborate set-up to get rid of him for good then if this guy is costing UA money and exposing them to unwanted publicity in his blog
57 BC77008: It seemed very, very odd to me that his fellow passengers found his blog and then left comments corroborating his side of the story. This definitely
58 pacifique75: Personally, as a F/A, I will only ask a passenger to stop taking photos if it is clear obvious will be in the picture or video or if their behaviour i
59 A330: Some Cabin Crew and some flightcrew on US airlines are not only paranoia, they lack common sense, so much needed in this profession. this is one case
60 vfw614: I would not read too much into this. There is also one fellow traveller who is criticizing the guy for not shutting up. In all fairness, if you keep
61 CODC10: These EWR-IST were on sale a few weeks ago in the ~$400 range and may have even been promoted by the blogger at issue, and they attracted a lot of at
62 sankaps: Well said. Everytime I hear someone (usually US airline employees) say "flying is a privilege, not a a right", it really irritates me. Do they even k
63 PanHAM: You see, I can't help it, we were taught at school, based on our history, exactly NOT to do that. We were also taught to question rules. I am aware o
64 CODC10: There is a forum to question the propriety of rules, but it is generally not before a person who is merely attempting to enforce rules (even that is
65 brilondon: This blogger has to be either very naive or very stupid. If he is who he says he is, he would know the policy which is common to all U.S. carriers, yo
66 ScottB: I don't find this story to be outrageous. It seems like normal customer service at United.
67 silentbob: While you may not like, or agree with, some of the more obscure airline policies and regulations, flight attendants have no choice. They are required
68 hoons90: I will go out of my way to avoid United Airlines for all of my future travels.
69 MaverickM11: Every second, of every day, everyone sacrifices liberty in exchange for safety. Life would cease to function if we didn't.
70 peanuts: And the sad part, most don't even realize it. They think it's perfectly normal. Terrorist, terrorist, terrorist...there, I said it, now what? It's si
71 MaverickM11: You're going to find a nutso FA on a power trip on every airline.
72 MIAspotter: Total overreaction by the crew, but as many have pointed, it´s sadly the world we live in today. I also had a bit of a nasty experience on CO back in
73 Unflug: He fully obeyed the instructions he was given. Unfurtunately talking to the crew and informing them of his intentions is what brought him into troubl
74 vfw614: He took a picture (which as per United's own rules is not prohibited, but allowed to "record personal events"). He was told not to do. He complied (a
75 135mech: Also, it's pathetic that the journalist that has spent an amazing amount of time on UA was thrown off, but NOT the idiot that was arguing with her and
76 CalebWilliams: I too found that strange, but we have no idea as to why those customers knew where to go. For all we know this guy is very out going and engaged some
77 avek00: Matthew Klint has now gone to the press with his story. I hope he (and more importantly, his travel behaviors) will be prepared to undergo the scrutin
78 jayunited: United isn't the only U.S. airline with this policy and had this flight been going to a European or South American destination I pretty sure the FA wo
79 vfw614: So what's the point of accommodating the off-loaded passenger straight-away for free (including his complimentary upgrade), certainly at a much higher
80 ScottB: Simply untrue. If you instructed a passenger to strip naked in the aisle, do you expect that he/she agreed to comply with that instruction? But then
81 twincessna340a: Not the word I first thought he used. ICAO disagrees with you, as PanHAM explains: I can't believe nobody has referenced the airplane scene from "Mee
82 AA777: Ugh. That story made my blood boil. I would have made sure that I got the names of all of the associated crew and told them that while I will step off
83 hrc773: I understand you used the word "some" in an attempt to avoid making a generalization on US crews. Your comment is still worthless; there's good crews
84 sankaps: Of course there are good crew and bad crews everywhere. But much more of these kinds of incidents occur in the US, and I have no qualms in saying tha
85 B727FA: American "prevents" people from taking pictures on board. Now, do pics get taken? Yes, but if they say "no" you gotta stop. It's in their AmericanWay
86 1stfl94: I think it's concerning just how little common sense the crew displayed on this flight. Maybe some retraining required...
87 jayunited: AS a passenger you have a right to complain about the service you receive while onboard an aircraft. That is not what happened here. The FA left and
88 vfw614: Well, in any legal system I am aware of you are only bound by contractual obligations that you have had the chance to become aware of. Hence the need
89 hrc773: I completely agree that the crew showed little common sense. But why throw in that they were Americans? Is this something that only an American crew
90 1stfl94: To be honest I couldn't see it happening in other countries, most would have probably asked politely for a passenger to stop photographing rather tha
91 falstaff: I take pictures of stuff like that on DL all the time. I have taken photos all over the aircraft and nobody has said anything. I have even had FAs ta
92 Rising: Anyone surprised he went to the media? This is clearly a publicity stunt on the part of a 26 year old blogger, that has riled up people on here into
93 sankaps: This thread reminds me of the 2011 incident, also on United, where an aircraft was brought back to the gate and a passenger questioned because he happ
94 ER757: I'd agree with your comments except that the contradictory nature of UA's policy is well noted in reply #5. You can't tell people not to take photos
95 B727FA: But therein lies the rub: you're not trapped. You had the opportunity/obligation to read the Contract of Carriage before you * voluntarily* boarded.
96 vfw614: Apparently United is already in damage control mode as their comment to NBC was rather defensive and they have reached out to the blogger (he says in
97 sankaps: The contract of carriage includes the warning on photography then?
98 jayunited: If you believe that you are right and that there is nothing wrong with using the word "terrorist" onboard a plane while talking to a FA why don't you
99 vfw614: Please explain - how can I learn of my legal obligation not to take pictures on board (and, for that matter, all other obligations laid out in the in
100 drgmobile: This is ridiculous. People were born with brains so that they could evaluate situations with common sense. Would it be acceptable to kick somebody of
101 DTW2HYD: I wonder what to happened to all those policies on this United revenue flight. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c317nBY1uSc
102 EWRCabincrew: Where do I start... As for the blogger...he writes with a huge slant, albeit his own, on life and his perception of things (case in point this: http:/
103 Alias1024: Let's look at this from the flight attendant's point of view instead of the passenger's. The FA has asked him to stop taking photographs, he appears t
104 IrishAyes: It is basically a given here in the US. The instant you mention the word "bomb" or "terrorist" on an airplane, at an airport, or basically within ear
105 manny: Its unfortunate that a stupid FA on a power trip ended up ruining this person's journey. Just unacceptable. Such FA's who defy common sense have no jo
106 JAAlbert: The stated UAL policy expressly permits the sort of photos we take. I have often been in the position of wondering if I can snap a picture - some FAs
107 catiii: So the to further add to the hypocrisy of an airline that encourages its customers, through its offal social media outlets, to post photos of their t
108 ozark1: I have mixed feelings about this one. I have no idea what the personality is of the blogger, but perhaps that combined with a particular personality o
109 meister808: No, it doesn't justify anything. The fact is, you buy a ticket, the company you buy that ticket from has an obligation to honor that ticket and provi
110 sankaps: 9/11 was terrible, but I'm sorry to say that if 12 years on one blames that for poor customer handling and power trips today, then I suggest perhaps
111 planesntrains: It seems very rude to do that. We see a lot of things everyday but it's usually a few people that are the bad ones. Most people could take a picture
112 Unflug: Where did you read that he became disrupted and disorderly?
113 B727FA: Not at all; but sarcastically suggesting a flight should be delayed to see "...what further contractual obligations" can be gleaned from the inflight
114 type-rated: If an airline doesn't want people taking photos, then put it in the contract of carriage. Don't hide it in some magazine that someone may never look a
115 sankaps: I have never had problems taking photos on AA flights. Don't fly UA much though, and perhaps it is a good thing as I enjoy taking photos when I fly.
116 MaverickM11: Did you intend to make this statement as ridiculous as it sounds? And they're at every carrier, but in some places you can reprimand that behavior--j
117 jayunited: The Contract of Carriage is available in its entirety on United.com just like it is for all airlines. It is your responsibility to read this before y
118 sankaps: So saying "I am not a terrorist" is worse than disobeying crew instructions? Because clearly that's what actual terrorists do, call FAs over and tell
119 AADC10: I believe there is a video rights issue when photographing a video screen. It is akin to recording in a theater. Obviously the image was only the star
120 sankaps: He followed the crewmember's instructions anddid not take any more photos. Therefore as per your logic above, he should not have been booted off the
121 tp1040: The whole thing comes down to this. They haven't even pushed back and this guy is not going to "let go" of being told what to do by the F/A. He just h
122 richierich: If you live in the UK, you do live like that. Maybe not as much as we do across the pond though. Back to topic The guy used the word "terrorist". Of
123 type-rated: It's not ridiculous. How many people do YOU know that read UA's inflight magazine cover to cover each time they fly? If they won't put it in the cont
124 n92r03: Honestly, the author sounds like a little bitch. If he is a 1k member how come he has never flown in the biz/first seat? Dropping the terrorist refere
125 motif1: The FA should not have escalated the issue! I think that the author thought it would put the FA at ease by explaining himself. I blame the whole thing
126 AeroWesty: By telling the FA that he regularly blogs about United and that the folks in Chicago are aware of him? What was she to think? That the episode would
127 vfw614: OK, I will put it differently: Please show me the section in the contract of carriage that makes it my contractual obligation not to take pictures (so
128 brilondon: Do you think that there is more to the story than just his side from his blog? Although I can say that I am surprised it was UA that had the crappy se
129 catiii: So does the contract of carriage for UA go into prohibitions on photography in the cabin and prohibitions on usage of certain words, and also stipula
130 flyfree727: I am sure UA would disagree with you.. FA's, are FIRST and foremost in a SAFETY position. If asked at ANY interview with any major carrier what your