Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Delta Starting SEA-LAS/ANC  
User currently offlineDeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9672 posts, RR: 14
Posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 13571 times:

starts June 10th
SEA-LAS
DL2431 2030-2252 738 D

LAS-SEA
DL2430 1730-1945 757 D

SEA-ANC
DL1579 2045-2330 757 D

ANC-SEA
DL0822 0030-500 757 D *starts June 11*

         this could get interesting      


*note, in Delta timetable, should hit Delta.com Saturday.


yep.
96 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11837 posts, RR: 62
Reply 1, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 13571 times:

Quoting Deltal1011man (Thread starter):
this could get interesting

Wow.

Yep - this is going to get interesting. I suppose this could be simply a way to get some utilization flying in, and boost connectivity for some of the Asia flights. But it doesn't seem like it. Rumors to date notwithstanding, this seems to me to be a strong signal from Delta, and I think we can all take a pretty good guess who the intended recipient is.

Long-term, Alaska can respond to this in one of three ways:

(1) they can ignore it continue with business as usual (including continuing to pursue their dual-track AA/DL partnership strategy

(2) they can succumb to the pressure Delta is obviously mounting (and appears likely to continue to mount) and drop AA

(3) they can go the other extreme, reactive strongly in response, and dump Delta

There are pros and cons to each of those paths. It will be fascinating to see which Delta pursues.


User currently offlineDeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9672 posts, RR: 14
Reply 2, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 13545 times:

Quoting commavia (Reply 1):
(1) they can ignore it continue with business as usual (including continuing to pursue their dual-track AA/DL partnership strategy

Interestingly enough If i try to find a flight on AS for these two the timetable routes me over Portland or Los Angeles



yep.
User currently offlinedavescj From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 2307 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 13527 times:

I have to wonder about SEA - LAS as a "competitive" route against AS. LAS is a recreation city. I suspect this is a seasonal route. Even if it is perm, can it be a serious problem? Why not slap an AS code on the flight if there is room for another flight?

I am of the same mind about SEA - ANC. How much daily traffic is there to ANC year round? Part of how AS manages to fly is that AS code share (therefore fills planes) as much as possible.

If there is sufficient traffic, again, why not add a route?

And let's not forget how short a life some DL flights have lived.

Dave



Can I have a mojito on this flight?
User currently offlineseatback From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 778 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 13516 times:

Quoting commavia (Reply 1):
(1) they can ignore it continue with business as usual (including continuing to pursue their dual-track AA/DL partnership strategy

(2) they can succumb to the pressure Delta is obviously mounting (and appears likely to continue to mount) and drop AA

(3) they can go the other extreme, reactive strongly in response, and dump Delta



I think there's definitely something going on behind the scenes at AS. They can't be happy about DL's slow build up. This could be positioning AA better. I'm sure the new AA would appreciate being AS' sole partner.

Should AS and DL divorce, could/would we see some AA Asia build up out of SEA?


User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2940 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 13481 times:

Quoting Deltal1011man (Thread starter):
starts June 10th
SEA-LAS
DL2431 2030-2252 738 D

LAS-SEA
DL2430 1730-1945 757 D

I'm surprised it's not scheduled to feed the TPAC operation.

[Edited 2013-02-21 05:37:16]

User currently offlineDeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9672 posts, RR: 14
Reply 6, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 13451 times:

Quoting seatback (Reply 4):
Should AS and DL divorce, could/would we see some AA Asia build up out of SEA?

I guess its possible but even with a divorce, Delta would add some feed for its Asian network on its own. Market isn't big enough for two.



yep.
User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11837 posts, RR: 62
Reply 7, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 13431 times:

Quoting seatback (Reply 4):
They can't be happy about DL's slow build up. This could be positioning AA better. I'm sure the new AA would appreciate being AS' sole partner.

I agree - AS would likely prefer to not have competition from its "competimate" in several of its largest markets (ANC, LAX, LAS) out of its largest hub. This could - theoretically - push AS into AA's open and willing arms. But I don't know if that is realistic, either.

Quoting seatback (Reply 4):
Should AS and DL divorce, could/would we see some AA Asia build up out of SEA?

Possible, I suppose, but hard to imagine. The only SEA-Asia market I think AA can and should be in is SEA-NRT, either with an AA 777 or JL 787 - if I'm not mistaken, SEA is by far the largest U.S.-NRT market the AA/JL is not presently represented in.

However, these things don't happen in a vacuum. If - hypothetically - AS were to entirely sever ties with DL, and AA were to try and build an Asia hub in SEA based on the AS partnership, they would almost certainly then find themselves fighting against DL who would then no doubt be building its own SEA "hub" (with nothing - vis a vis AS - to lose).

All that being said, again, though - I don't see AA building up a large Asia gateway out of SEA.

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 5):
I'm surprised it's not scheduled to feed the TPAC operation.

Based on the scheduling it looks like this is clearly utilization flying. Based on the schedule, it is probably a aircraft coming in from the east coast that would just have parked on the west coast (LAS and SEA) for long sits and are now just doing additional flying before coming back to LAS/SEA to head back east again.


User currently offlineDeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9672 posts, RR: 14
Reply 8, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 13422 times:

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 5):
I'm surprised it's not scheduled to feed the TPAC operation.

Yeah, It looks like its kinda timed up to HND but most of the other TPAC flying leaves in the early afternoon


Oh course, it could change. A little odd to have a 738 one way and 757 the other.



yep.
User currently offlineDeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9672 posts, RR: 14
Reply 9, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 13390 times:

Quoting commavia (Reply 7):
This could - theoretically - push AS into AA's open and willing arms. But I don't know if that is realistic, either.

not two flights. IMO its just DL showing they will do their own thing if they have too....

Quoting commavia (Reply 7):
if I'm not mistaken, SEA is by far the largest U.S.-NRT market the AA/JL is not presently represented in.

But has a ton of capacity from DL (744-NRT 76W-HND) and Star (ANA NRT-787 errr 777? and UA NRT 777) I don't think Oneworld wants any part of that blood bath. (and doesn't JL fly to YVR?)

Quoting commavia (Reply 7):
they would almost certainly then find themselves fighting against DL who would then no doubt be building its own SEA "hub" (with nothing - vis a vis AS - to lose).

Right. Delta isn't going to just dump the SEA flying. They will simply add some limited feed ie the old PDX hub.



yep.
User currently offlineJoePatroni707 From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 493 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 13362 times:

Let the DL is buying AS rumours begin.......   

User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11837 posts, RR: 62
Reply 11, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 13343 times:

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 9):
But has a ton of capacity from DL (744-NRT 76W-HND) and Star (ANA NRT-787 errr 777? and UA NRT 777) I don't think Oneworld wants any part of that blood bath.

True, the market right now is a bloodbath. NH has entered while UA has stuck around, and DL is dumping a ton of additional capacity into the market. Nonetheless, I'm not sure how long that will last for. And I still contend that, long-term, strategically, SEA-NRT (and really more broadly SEA-Asia) is a market oneworld needs to have a presence in.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 9):
(and doesn't JL fly to YVR?)

Yes, but YVR is not the same market as SEA.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 9):
Right. Delta isn't going to just dump the SEA flying. They will simply add some limited feed ie the old PDX hub.

I do question how long that would be sustainable, though. (Frankly, I question even how long this present situation is really sustainable.)


User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2940 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 13308 times:

Quoting commavia (Reply 11):
And I still contend that, long-term, strategically, SEA-NRT (and really more broadly SEA-Asia) is a market oneworld needs to have a presence in.

Probably a 787 market, once they get back in the air.

My guess would be DL jumping into SFO-SEA next.


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16892 posts, RR: 51
Reply 13, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 13279 times:

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 12):
My guess would be DL jumping into SFO-SEA next.

I think they want to concentrate this against AS, and not draw in UA which might lead to a larger issue for DL. So I would say SAN might be next.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7708 posts, RR: 27
Reply 14, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 13241 times:

Quoting commavia (Reply 7):
Based on the scheduling it looks like this is clearly utilization flying. Based on the schedule, it is probably a aircraft coming in from the east coast that would just have parked on the west coast (LAS and SEA) for long sits and are now just doing additional flying before coming back to LAS/SEA to head back east again.

The schedule indicates as said its clearly utilization flying.

LAS-SEA-LAS positions aircraft in the evening that can be used then for a red-eye back east.

SEA-ANC-SEA is overnight red-eye flying


User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2940 posts, RR: 6
Reply 15, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 13231 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 13):
I think they want to concentrate this against AS, and not draw in UA which might lead to a larger issue for DL. So I would say SAN might be next.

Perhaps, but then I guess it depends on what their strategy actually is. Conspiracy theory about leveraging AS aside, if their intent is to build a larger operation to develop a more higher yielding, elite passenger base then Northern California will be key to that strategy (tech traffic etc). I can most definitely see SAN and SNA coming soon too.


User currently offlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6784 posts, RR: 17
Reply 16, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 13144 times:

Quoting Deltal1011man (Thread starter):
starts June 10th
SEA-LAS
DL2431 2030-2252 738 D

LAS-SEA
DL2430 1730-1945 757 D

SEA-ANC
DL1579 2045-2330 757 D

ANC-SEA
DL0822 0030-500 757 D *starts June 11*

Are these competitive or complimentary time? To me, that would make it look like either an aggression or a supportive move...



Aiming High and going far..
User currently offlinerwsea From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 3118 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 13133 times:

I know there's the usual a.net tendency to add emotion and drama into any situation, but let's focus on facts here. DL has added a single daily frequency in two important AS markets. Each market has multiple daily flights by AS (in case of ANC, something like 15x daily in the summer, maybe even more). DL's flights are at inconvenient times that suggest nothing but repositioning. If they can pick up some pax in those flights, then all the better for it. At the same time, in the last couple of years AS has added flights, again limited to 1-2 daily frequencies, to important Delta markets like SLC, MSP, and ATL. I fail to see how DL adding a few reposition flights signals an all-out war with AS, anymore than AS adding a daily flight to MSP signalled an all-out war with DL.

Yes DL added SEA-LAX, but they've also added many other destinations from LAX. LAX is an important international gateway for DL, as is SEA. It makes sense to offer some of their own connections between the two.

Yes, AS is strengthening ties with AA... but again how does this hurt the all-important AS feed to DL's SEA gateway? The extent of the AS/AA partnership is pretty much the connections available at LAX. Other than SEA, PDX, and some Mexican holiday destinations, the AS network at LAX has never lent itself to supporting a massive international gateway, as may be the case in SEA.

I take this at face value - DL getting some extra utilization, while taking advantage of its increasing FF base in SEA and it's increased number of aircraft overnighting there due to a general increase in service (such as the increase of SEA-JFK from 3 to 5 daily this summer). Anything about a "war" is utter nonsense.


User currently offlineDeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9672 posts, RR: 14
Reply 18, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 13105 times:

Quoting commavia (Reply 11):
I do question how long that would be sustainable, though. (Frankly, I question even how long this present situation is really sustainable.)

I have said before, I don't think this is the way to go. The only sustainable thing I see it the big M word. IMO SEA isn't be enough, nor does it have the space for two hubs. (plus a large WN operation)

regardless, Delta has to have a place(s) to start overflying Japan. DTW has become the nice gateway to the east coast (ala ORD for UA). SEA and LAX to a point will, IMO, become Delta's place from the west coast. I just don't see Delta being able to rely on AS the way they are now for long term stability.

Quoting commavia (Reply 11):
SEA-NRT (and really more broadly SEA-Asia) is a market oneworld needs to have a presence in.

I agree. Give it time, I personally think UA's days a numbered. (and I also think DL will be going back to a 333 once the fleet finishes mods.)

Quoting STT757 (Reply 13):
and not draw in UA which might lead to a larger issue for DL.

I honestly don't think UA would blink that much. IMO UA would just hope that DL would add enough capacity to get VX to blink(Or does VS only fly to SEA from LAX?). I think UA knows as much as we do that this is just some kind of pissing match between AS and DL. IMHO it wont last long.

SFO would be my bet for any extra SEA flying(also say SAN/PHX wouldn't shock me though). I wouldn't be shocked at all to LAX-PDX happen.



yep.
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16892 posts, RR: 51
Reply 19, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 12884 times:

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 18):
I honestly don't think UA would blink that much.

I disagree, I think UA would retaliate and I think DL knows this which is why they have have added everything but SFO. After LAX SFO has to be the most important West Coast market from SEA, if DL's plans were not retaliatory towards AS then why not add SFO sooner? Las Vegas before San Francisco, really?



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineSocalApproach From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 123 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 12829 times:

I don't understand what DL is doing and why. Granted its just 1 flight SEA-ANC. I cant expect DL to put anything significant on SEA-SFO and they wouldn't be dumb enough to through an RJ on the route but There is enough capacity on that route as it is AS/UA/VX and then WN/AS with service to OAK. I look forward to when we know what this is all about if anything is under lying. But it may be nothing. Its not like AS doesnt have routes overlaping DL anywhere. Dont they fly SEA-ATL SEA-MSP and I recall it getting a little roudy here when AS announced SEA-SLC.

User currently offlineDeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9672 posts, RR: 14
Reply 21, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 12816 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 19):
I disagree, I think UA would retaliate and I think DL knows this which is why they have have added everything but SFO. After LAX SFO has to be the most important West Coast market from SEA, if DL's plans were not retaliatory towards AS then why not add SFO sooner? Las Vegas before San Francisco, really?

They did the same thing in LAX. LAX and even SAN came before SFO. Delta is bigger in LAX and LAS then they are in SFO. Plus LAS is pretty big for Asians.

Also if the SEA-SFO schedule is as big of a joke as LAS is I don't think it will even be a dot on UAs radar. At most it will get a few laughs from the guys in UAs Network dept. 1x flight a day that connects to nearly nothing for Delta..... They are digging their own grave.



yep.
User currently offlinemcogator From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 185 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 12776 times:

SEA-HKG next? How about a SEA-BKK NS flight? Can the 777 make it?

User currently offlinepanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4955 posts, RR: 25
Reply 23, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 12737 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 5):

I'm surprised it's not scheduled to feed the TPAC operation.

The SEA-LAS is timed for the arrival from HND. The LAS-SEA flight can feed both HND and PEK as both leave SEA in the late evening.


User currently offlineslcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3607 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 12720 times:

SEA-ANC is the most interesting and telling IMHO. Its not to feed asia flights clearly so that is interesting

User currently offlineDeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9672 posts, RR: 14
Reply 25, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 13118 times:

Quoting mcogator (Reply 22):
How about a SEA-BKK NS flight? Can the 777 make it?

777 can do it, but it wouldn't work. to long and low yielding.

Quoting mcogator (Reply 22):
SEA-HKG next?

I think SEA-HKG, SEA-NGO or SEA-ICN would be the three looked at. NGO/ICN can be hit with a 767. HKG i think would have to be a 330 or T7. At ~5600nm that at the very edge of the 767-300ER ranger(without winglets I show 5900nm) So maybe the 76T fleet could do it and still take a meaning payload.

Also an outside shot for TPE with the CI hub.



yep.
User currently offlinepsa1011 From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 316 posts, RR: 0
Reply 26, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 13043 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Does anyone know why UA cancelled SFO-NGO? Would it have been too costly to replace the 777 with a 763?

User currently offlinesteex From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 1735 posts, RR: 9
Reply 27, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 13298 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 19):
I disagree, I think UA would retaliate and I think DL knows this which is why they have have added everything but SFO. After LAX SFO has to be the most important West Coast market from SEA, if DL's plans were not retaliatory towards AS then why not add SFO sooner? Las Vegas before San Francisco, really?

I'm not sure I follow you in the "everything but SFO" statement - they haven't added all that much to SEA. I guess you can argue that SEA-MEM is a route that is out of left field, but it is still route to a hub (however small). LAX-SEA was added at least as much to build LAX as to build SEA.

So that leaves us these current adds, SEA-ANC/LAS, with schedules clearly based on utilization that are likely to capture overflow traffic (which will largely be leisure travelers on both routes). That type of move wouldn't suffice for SFO, they'd need to enter with a competitive schedule for the business traveler (at least 3x daily), requiring planes to be allocated from elsewhere since it wouldn't be just utilization flying. Perhaps DL does prefer to avoid UA/SFO, but I don't think the moves they've made thus far actually provide useful evidence to that.


User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17784 posts, RR: 46
Reply 28, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 13317 times:

Wow it is *on*. I would not want to be DL or AS right now as it has the potential to get really ugly really quickly.

Quoting commavia (Reply 11):
I do question how long that would be sustainable, though.

I don't think it is sustainable without a fundamental change to one of the carrier's SEA operations. One way or another DL needs to control its flow at SEA, either with or without AS



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlinemesaflyguy From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 3286 posts, RR: 6
Reply 29, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 13260 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

I'd say the SEA-ANC route is just utilization flying. Isn't B6's ANC route the same thing?

As for LAS, that is clearly a utilization flight, as each way is a different type of aircraft.



\________(---)________/ :) World's most beautiful aircraft: 757-200, MD-88/90, E-190, A321
User currently offlineSonomaFlyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 1872 posts, RR: 0
Reply 30, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 13203 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting mcogator (Reply 22):

SEA-HKG next? How about a SEA-BKK NS flight? Can the 777 make it?

That's quite a leap from a couple of positioning flights to long haul flights to Asia. SEA-BKK is 6481 nm which would mean the 77L would be the only a/c that should be used in the DL fleet. There is not much of a market so don't expect a route like this one.


User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11837 posts, RR: 62
Reply 31, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 13197 times:

Quoting mcogator (Reply 22):
SEA-HKG next? How about a SEA-BKK NS flight? Can the 777 make it?

I could definitely see NRT-HKG being replaced by SEA-HKG. Seems like a market that could work with a 777. SEA-BKK? Don't think so - way to long and low-yielding a route. Better to keep that one flowing over NRT.


User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20784 posts, RR: 62
Reply 32, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 12996 times:

Quoting rwsea (Reply 17):
I take this at face value - DL getting some extra utilization, while taking advantage of its increasing FF base in SEA and it's increased number of aircraft overnighting there due to a general increase in service (such as the increase of SEA-JFK from 3 to 5 daily this summer). Anything about a "war" is utter nonsense.

Thank goodness, some level-headed realism. This isn't about DL trying to disrupt the business plans of one of their most important domestic partners.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlinepeanuts From Netherlands, joined Dec 2009, 1442 posts, RR: 4
Reply 33, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 12858 times:

Quoting SocalApproach (Reply 20):
I don't understand what DL is doing and why.

Funny

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 32):
This isn't about DL trying to disrupt the business plans of one of their most important domestic partners.

Funnier.


Remember High School? Ever try to draw the attention from a pretty girl? Maybe you throw some "innocent" (=utilization flying) attention grabbers?
DL means it. It wants to know if AS is here to play ball or not.



Question Conventional Wisdom. While not all commonly held beliefs are wrong…all should be questioned.
User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2940 posts, RR: 6
Reply 34, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 12767 times:

Quoting commavia (Reply 31):
I could definitely see NRT-HKG being replaced by SEA-HKG.

Agreed. UA few this route before they acquired PA's system I believe. I can see DL adding it.

Quoting mesaflyguy (Reply 29):
As for LAS, that is clearly a utilization flight, as each way is a different type of aircraft.

Also, as mentioned above, it feeds HND and PEK, two markets that are popular with Las Vegas. Two birds, one stone as they say.

The Seattle market can handle this extra capacity but then it depends on what DL's long term strategy is. I don't think an acquisition is an option - AS is far too expensive for what DL would be getting.


User currently offlineRoseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9697 posts, RR: 52
Reply 35, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 12783 times:

These new routes are not about connections. DL is stepping into high O/D markets out of SEA. Other than MSP & LAX, none of DL’s domestic hubs out of SEA are high (top 10) O/D markets from SEA. This results in most people from SEA remaining loyal to AS’ mileage program since they mostly fly AS. DL likely is trying to capture some of the elite flyers and get them using their Delta Skymiles account rather than just earning AS miles while flying on DL.

If they want to grow their elite ranks and help fill up the premium cabins on those international flights out of SEA, they have to have a reasonable domestic network. People loyal to AS, can choose other airlines for their long haul services, so DL needs to grow some of its domestic routes a bit. This are high O/D markets, so there is room for DL on them, although SEA-ANC will be a bloodbath this summer with AS, UA, DL and B6.

Quoting commavia (Reply 7):
Quoting seatback (Reply 4):
Should AS and DL divorce, could/would we see some AA Asia build up out of SEA?

Possible, I suppose, but hard to imagine. The only SEA-Asia market I think AA can and should be in is SEA-NRT, either with an AA 777 or JL 787 - if I'm not mistaken, SEA is by far the largest U.S.-NRT market the AA/JL is not presently represented in.

I doubt we’ll see AA growing SEA-Asia. DL has taken the market. There is much more competition now than when AA dropped SEA-NRT a decade ago. The SEA-NRT route is going to be oversaturated since we are looking at 4 daily flights (DL NRT, DL HND, UA NRT & NH NRT). I think AA would be wise to stay out of international flying from SEA.

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 12):

My guess would be DL jumping into SFO-SEA next.

I absolutely agree. SEA-SFO is the top O/D route out of SEA. UA tends to be the capacity leader on that route, unlike AS leading capacity on every other route, so the yields are not going to be good with 4 airlines on the route and WN to OAK & SJC.

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 16):
Are these competitive or complimentary time? To me, that would make it look like either an aggression or a supportive move...

Times should help with fleet utilization. There are plenty of idle planes on the west coast in the evening hours before the redeyes. The SEA-ANC flight is for connections to the rest of the country. The majority of ANC traffic leaves SEA in the evening and has a midnight redeye return to SEA.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7972 posts, RR: 51
Reply 36, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 12793 times:

Slow down guys... I initially thought of something shady when I saw this, but don't forget a couple months ago DL flew a 744 into SEA and had a big orgy with AS employees talking about an expanded partnership... now I guess it's possible DL all of the sudden just decided that was a bad idea and wanted to lash out against one of their strongest partners at their very developed hub...

or maybe the execs talked things out and okayed the AS flying routes like SEA-SLC and DL on SEA-ANC. I know we love speculating but let's stop being so cynical and remember events that have just happened.

I think we can agree that codesharing is NOT merging. Maybe there are more passengers that want to fly SEA-ANC than AS can fly with it's current schedule and DL just so happens to have a 757 lying around not doing anything... "hey, AS, cancel that up-gauge of SEA-ANC, we got it, we have this 757 lying around, our guys are already working on the codeshare. Oh by the way, glad to see you on the SEA-SLC route. Our codesharing can only do so much for our passengers."

I could be completely wrong, but I think that makes more sense than DL all of the sudden backstabbing their closest US ally out of the blue because the party up in SEA didn't excite the DL execs enough...



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17784 posts, RR: 46
Reply 37, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 12735 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 36):
maybe the execs talked things out and okayed the AS flying routes like SEA-SLC and DL on SEA-ANC.

That is illegal

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 36):
forget a couple months ago DL flew a 744 into SEA and had a big orgy with AS employees talking about an expanded partnership

And since then, AS announced a major upgrade to its AA partnership, hence DL adding anything and everything to SEA



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineDeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9672 posts, RR: 14
Reply 38, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 12680 times:

Quoting psa1011 (Reply 26):
Does anyone know why UA cancelled SFO-NGO? Would it have been too costly to replace the 777 with a 763?

I haven't figured out why UA doesn't run this with a 767.

Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 30):
That's quite a leap from a couple of positioning flights to long haul flights to Asia. SEA-BKK is 6481 nm which would mean the 77L would be the only a/c that should be used in the DL fleet. There is not much of a market so don't expect a route like this one.

....uh its not a leap for a carrier that already has SEA-NRT/KIX/HND/PEK/PVG.

Quoting commavia (Reply 31):
I could definitely see NRT-HKG being replaced by SEA-HKG.

I don't think they will replace NRT-HKG(or PEK/PVG) just yet. If they didn't pull NRT-HKG for DTW-HKG I don't think they will do so for SEA-HKG.

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 34):
AS is far too expensive for what DL would be getting.

.....uhhh What? AS's Market cap is right at 3B.... thats not to expensive for a merger that would be mostly stock.



yep.
User currently offlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 6099 posts, RR: 9
Reply 39, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 12486 times:

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 18):
I honestly don't think UA would blink that much. IMO UA would just hope that DL would add enough capacity to get VX to blink(Or does VS only fly to SEA from LAX?). I think UA knows as much as we do that this is just some kind of pissing match between AS and DL. IMHO it wont last long.

What makes no sense to me is why DL would do anything to risk their partnership with AS....without it all of those flights they have to Asia from SEA are at risk.

Quoting psa1011 (Reply 26):
Does anyone know why UA cancelled SFO-NGO? Would it have been too costly to replace the 777 with a 763?

UA had the NUMMI contract on the route...when NUMMI shut down the route ceased to be viable. It may return with the 788s...

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 38):
...uh its not a leap for a carrier that already has SEA-NRT/KIX/HND/PEK/PVG.

BKK tends to be a high volume lower yields market....they can certainly get enough passengers to justify a non-stop but I'm not sure they would be able to charge enough to make it profitable.



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16892 posts, RR: 51
Reply 40, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 12477 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 36):
I initially thought of something shady when I saw this, but don't forget a couple months ago DL flew a 744 into SEA and had a big orgy with AS employees talking about an expanded partnership... now I guess it's possible DL all of the sudden just decided that was a bad idea and wanted to lash out against one of their strongest partners at their very developed hub...



If this were planned all along why wouldn't DL make one big announcement about expanding SEA, instead they are drip drip dripping a new route every couple days. It's got the feel of something that was not long in planning, otherwise as you pointed out about previous instances where is the big announcement. This is retaliatory.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 38):
I haven't figured out why UA doesn't run this with a 767.



It will most likely return as a 787.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlinejporterfi From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 446 posts, RR: 0
Reply 41, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 12430 times:

Quoting Deltal1011man (Thread starter):
SEA-LAS
DL2431 2030-2252 738 D

LAS-SEA
DL2430 1730-1945 757 D

Interesting that it is a 738 in one direction and a 757 in the other direction. Based on that, is it safe to assume that the a/c are heading back east after these flights each night? Or maybe in the case of the 738, it can be used for an LAS-SLC flight?


User currently offlineiowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4431 posts, RR: 6
Reply 42, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 12369 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Very interesting. Nice use of aircraft that are probably otherwise sitting around. I doubt they will have any problem filling these aircraft in the summer with all the cruise traffic on SEA-ANC and SEA-LAS is also a substantial market. AS has an impressive amount of seats on both the SEA-ANC and LAS markets:

Daily schedules for June:

SEA-ANC:

AS:

0600-0840 734
0800-1042 734
0900-1138 734
1000-1240 734
1100-1335 734
1130-1404 734
1210-1438 739
1400-1630 734
1500-1747 734
1600-1840 734
1700-1935 734
1800-2044 734
1830-2058 734
1900-2137 734
1930-2204 734
1955-2223 739
2015-2245 739
2100-2337 738
2240-0120 734
2345-0230 734

B6:

2015-2249 320

UA:

1330-1600 739
2055-2325 752

DL (the new flight):

0030-0500 752

SEA-LAS:

AS:

0600-0818 738
0730-0947 738
0835-1055 738
0935-1154 738
1115-1336 738
1230-1452 738
1420-1640 738
1840-2058 738
2045-2303 737

WN:

0600-0805 733
1140-1410 737
1530-1800 733
1855-2120 737
2125-2345 733

DL (the new flight):

2030-2252 738

Also indirect competition is AS and G4 on BLI-LAS.


User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5554 posts, RR: 12
Reply 43, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 12290 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 13):
So I would say SAN might be next.

I would agree, thinking we will probably see the announcement before March (with a June start-up.)

And this would be AS's first competition on the route since B6 tried it in 2008-09. As I mentioned in another thread just a day or 2 ago, this could very well explain AS adding service (~1 1/2 flts/day) to their summer offerings in the SAN-SEA market...

bb


User currently offlineslcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3607 posts, RR: 0
Reply 44, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 12002 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 37):
forget a couple months ago DL flew a 744 into SEA and had a big orgy with AS employees talking about an expanded partnership
And since then, AS announced a major upgrade to its AA partnership, hence DL adding anything and everything to SEA

Delta might just be trying to accelerate AS decision on partners. The delta execs may have decided it makes more sense to push alaska to make a decision and accelerate it now before they spend too much on developing SEA and buiiding the market. I don't think they plan on going solo in SEA without AS they just want to know they have AS there as a partner not one that will leave them two years down the road after they have spent all this money on SEA. I could see this as forcing them to choose a side they might feel a little nervous after AS just announced a major partnership upgrade with AA and they are about to invest all this money in SEA


User currently offlinesyncmaster From United States of America, joined Jul 2002, 2039 posts, RR: 10
Reply 45, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 11953 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 37):
And since then, AS announced a major upgrade to its AA partnership, hence DL adding anything and everything to SEA

What's the long-term viability (both for corporate reasons and potentially DOJ reasons) of this enhanced partnership with AA anyways?

Arguably DL needs to position themselves better on the west coast if/when the AA/US merger is completed. Not to mention that when the most recent AS/DL announcement occurred DL made no secret of the fact that SEA was on their radar and that they were building up their presence there.


User currently offlinediverdave From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 344 posts, RR: 0
Reply 46, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 11876 times:

Quoting commavia (Reply 7):
This could - theoretically - push AS into AA's open and willing arms

AA's open and willing arms will be quite well occupied for the next couple of years executing its merger with Doug Parker Enterprises dba US Air.

 

David


User currently offlineMIflyer12 From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 1185 posts, RR: 0
Reply 47, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 11833 times:

Quoting syncmaster (Reply 45):
Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 37):
And since then, AS announced a major upgrade to its AA partnership, hence DL adding anything and everything to SEA

What's the long-term viability (both for corporate reasons and potentially DOJ reasons) of this enhanced partnership with AA anyways?

IMHO, US fixes few of AA's West Coast weaknesses - AA needs AS support whether or not it merges with US.

So the flight schedules show DL's single flight is the 24th flight of the day in SEA-ANC? That's not a big increment and I'm not going to read too much into it. 6x 753s daily would be a big 'Up yours!'


User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 3208 posts, RR: 7
Reply 48, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 11779 times:

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 44):
Delta might just be trying to accelerate AS decision on partners. The delta execs may have decided it makes more sense to push alaska to make a decision and accelerate it now before they spend too much on developing SEA and buiiding the market. I don't think they plan on going solo in SEA without AS they just want to know they have AS there as a partner not one that will leave them two years down the road after they have spent all this money on SEA. I could see this as forcing them to choose a side they might feel a little nervous after AS just announced a major partnership upgrade with AA and they are about to invest all this money in SEA

Why would AS want to choose a side? They apparently get significant revenue from each partnership. That's part of their highly successful business model. What would AS benefit by choosing sides and giving up their substantial code-share revenue with AA?

If I were AS, I'd tell DL to be satisfied with the business benefit that DL gets from their partnership with AS, and quit being greedy and expecting AS to give up their also lucrative partnership with AA (if this were in fact what DL is intending).


User currently offlineRoseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9697 posts, RR: 52
Reply 49, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 11785 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 36):

or maybe the execs talked things out and okayed the AS flying routes like SEA-SLC and DL on SEA-ANC. I know we love speculating but let's stop being so cynical and remember events that have just happened.

I think we can agree that codesharing is NOT merging. Maybe there are more passengers that want to fly SEA-ANC than AS can fly with it's current schedule and DL just so happens to have a 757 lying around not doing anything... "hey, AS, cancel that up-gauge of SEA-ANC, we got it, we have this 757 lying around, our guys are already working on the codeshare. Oh by the way, glad to see you on the SEA-SLC route. Our codesharing can only do so much for our passengers."

I could be completely wrong, but I think that makes more sense than DL all of the sudden backstabbing their closest US ally out of the blue because the party up in SEA didn't excite the DL execs enough...

Delta and Alaska do not have anti-trust immunity. So far I don’t believe any domestic airlines have anti-trust immunity to coordinate schedules. That means that they may not collaborate or coordinate schedules. Even though they codeshare, they cannot technically coordinate schedules between them or make any attempt to jointly manage capacity.

For example DL and KL do have anti-trust immunity. They can coordinate transatlantic schedules. DL and KL management do come together to manage capacity and trade routes back and forth and can revenue share. DL and AS cannot do that. They must act independently. If DL wants to time their international departures from SEA to match up with AS arrival & departure banks, they can do that. However they cannot request that AS operates a flight to city XXX at time YYY in order to connect with their international arrivals from PVG/PEK/KIX/etc.



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlinegreggariouspdx From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 66 posts, RR: 0
Reply 50, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 11609 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

I am glad to see DL flying the SEA-ANC route again. Does anyone think DL might start up the SEA-JNU-FAI route that they inherited in the merger with WA ? Would love to see some competition in Juneau again.

User currently offlinepsa1011 From United States of America, joined Jan 2011, 316 posts, RR: 0
Reply 51, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 11478 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 49):
However they cannot request that AS operates a flight to city XXX at time YYY in order to connect with their international arrivals from PVG/PEK/KIX/etc.

It seems, though, that DL was awarded SEA-HND partially based on the implied cooperation of AS in terms of scheduling on the domestic side.


User currently offlineprost From United States of America, joined Oct 2012, 1118 posts, RR: 1
Reply 52, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 10992 times:

Quoting greggariouspdx (Reply 50):

I am glad to see DL flying the SEA-ANC route again. Does anyone think DL might start up the SEA-JNU-FAI route that they inherited in the merger with WA ? Would love to see some competition in Juneau again.


Any US carrier could start that route. There isn't a CAB that doles out domestic routes.


User currently offlinesurfdog75 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 335 posts, RR: 0
Reply 53, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 10957 times:

The big 3 are so big now I would expect them to connect most of the big markets on their own metal eventually. The only real hole in DL's network is the West Coast. They are smart IMO to be working in the direction of filling it with their own aircraft.

User currently offlinehatbutton From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1500 posts, RR: 14
Reply 54, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 10656 times:

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 49):
Delta and Alaska do not have anti-trust immunity. So far I don’t believe any domestic airlines have anti-trust immunity to coordinate schedules. That means that they may not collaborate or coordinate schedules. Even though they codeshare, they cannot technically coordinate schedules between them or make any attempt to jointly manage capacity.

I don't think this is totally true. You can't coordinate pricing for sure. I'm sure you also can't directly tell someone you want them to fly at XXX time on XXX days. But when airlines place codes on each others flights, how do you think they choose which flights to do so on? It's not like they just choose to a time to fly and hope it works out for the best connections. They know what they're doing. When AS and AA recently expanded their codeshare they placed codes on flights that timed Bay Area-Hawaii flights with East Coast connections. If AS were to change the departure times of some of those flights, I'm sure AA would follow suit if they felt it was going to cost them any feed passengers. It's not directly coordinating with each other on schedule changes, but it basically is a backhanded way of doing it. You can't maximize your codeshare benefits on particular flights if you don't talk at least in generalities about schedule timing.


User currently offlinehatbutton From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1500 posts, RR: 14
Reply 55, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 10544 times:

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 38):
.....uhhh What? AS's Market cap is right at 3B.... thats not to expensive for a merger that would be mostly stock.

Today it's $3.5B. It's not expensive from a total dollar standpoint, but the point I think is that $3.5B is a pretty rich price for an airline that is as small as AS. Would the price be worth it and would the value still be there if DL bought them? DL's market cap is $11.5B so about 3 to 3.5 times bigger than AS. However from an ASM standpoint DL is 7 times bigger than AS. So that's the only reason you might not want to go after AS. Because to please the shareholders you'll have to pay a premium on that stock so the final deal will end up being much more than $3.5B, which is already a rich price by itself for what you're getting.


User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 3208 posts, RR: 7
Reply 56, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 10496 times:

Quoting hatbutton (Reply 54):
Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 49):
Delta and Alaska do not have anti-trust immunity. So far I don’t believe any domestic airlines have anti-trust immunity to coordinate schedules. That means that they may not collaborate or coordinate schedules. Even though they codeshare, they cannot technically coordinate schedules between them or make any attempt to jointly manage capacity.

I don't think this is totally true. You can't coordinate pricing for sure. I'm sure you also can't directly tell someone you want them to fly at XXX time on XXX days. But when airlines place codes on each others flights, how do you think they choose which flights to do so on? It's not like they just choose to a time to fly and hope it works out for the best connections. They know what they're doing. When AS and AA recently expanded their codeshare they placed codes on flights that timed Bay Area-Hawaii flights with East Coast connections. If AS were to change the departure times of some of those flights, I'm sure AA would follow suit if they felt it was going to cost them any feed passengers. It's not directly coordinating with each other on schedule changes, but it basically is a backhanded way of doing it. You can't maximize your codeshare benefits on particular flights if you don't talk at least in generalities about schedule timing.

I agree. I didn't think that lack of anti-trust immunity precludes partners from coordinating connecting flights. What would be illegal would be, say, for AS to call up DL and coordinate and add flights with the intent of squeezing another competitor out of the market. ("Hey, if you add a few more SEA-ANC flights, it might help put VX out of business) That would be illegal. I didn't think that it would be illegal to call up and say, "Could you move that 10am code share flight up 30 minutes to better connect with the HND flight?"


User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20784 posts, RR: 62
Reply 57, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 10362 times:

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 56):
I didn't think that it would be illegal to call up and say, "Could you move that 10am code share flight up 30 minutes to better connect with the HND flight?"

That would be coordinating flights and schedules, which I do believe would be illegal without antitrust immunity.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineplanesntrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5703 posts, RR: 29
Reply 58, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 10313 times:

Quoting rwsea (Reply 17):
Anything about a "war" is utter nonsense.

It may or may not be nonsense.

Quoting iowaman (Reply 42):
DL (the new flight):

0030-0500 752

I think SEA-ANC is:

Quoting Deltal1011man (Thread starter):
SEA-ANC
DL1579 2045-2330 757 D

Pretty standard airline SEA-ANC schedule for decades.

Quoting prost (Reply 52):
Quoting greggariouspdx (Reply 50):
I am glad to see DL flying the SEA-ANC route again. Does anyone think DL might start up the SEA-JNU-FAI route that they inherited in the merger with WA ? Would love to see some competition in Juneau again.


Any US carrier could start that route. There isn't a CAB that doles out domestic routes.

I don't think he was implying that. By "inherited" I think he meant "got as part of the route map at Western".

Quoting hatbutton (Reply 55):
Today it's $3.5B. It's not expensive from a total dollar standpoint, but the point I think is that $3.5B is a pretty rich price for an airline that is as small as AS. Would the price be worth it and would the value still be there if DL bought them? DL's market cap is $11.5B so about 3 to 3.5 times bigger than AS. However from an ASM standpoint DL is 7 times bigger than AS. So that's the only reason you might not want to go after AS. Because to please the shareholders you'll have to pay a premium on that stock so the final deal will end up being much more than $3.5B, which is already a rich price by itself for what you're getting.

While I don't disagree out of hand, were I Delta and interested in a deal, I might start by driving that price down a little. One big way to do that would be to take a shot across the bow of AS by adding metal in some of their tradional markets. Losing DL feed would certainly have a financial impact on AS, and the mere threat of that (such as we are seeing now, intentionally or otherwise) might be enough to give the market jitters.

We'll see. Personally, I hope DL doesn't keep it up because I don't see a good outcome for AS. Either DL gets it's way with them or they continue to do to Alaska what UA did to ACA - slowly marginalize them until they were no longer needed.

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offlinesteex From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 1735 posts, RR: 9
Reply 59, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 6 hours ago) and read 10075 times:

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 56):
I didn't think that lack of anti-trust immunity precludes partners from coordinating connecting flights.
-----
I didn't think that it would be illegal to call up and say, "Could you move that 10am code share flight up 30 minutes to better connect with the HND flight?"

Codeshare decisions are reactionary only. AS and DL both have to determine and publish their own flight schedules independently. Now, if AS wants to, it can look at DL's independently determined schedule and decide to move its flight for better connectivity. Similarly, DL can see AS's published schedule and decide to re-time its flights for better connectivity. However, it is illegal for either airline to request schedule changes from the other airline.

As airlines generally leave flights in important markets on fairly consistent schedules, its often not very difficult for DL to have a reasonable expectation of when AS flights will be scheduled in advance (and vice versa). But they can't actually coordinate with one another to make their schedules fit together.


User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 3208 posts, RR: 7
Reply 60, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 9452 times:

Quoting planesntrains (Reply 58):
We'll see. Personally, I hope DL doesn't keep it up because I don't see a good outcome for AS. Either DL gets it's way with them or they continue to do to Alaska what UA did to ACA - slowly marginalize them until they were no longer needed.

Personally, I don't think AS has to worry. They have much stronger brand recognition on the West Coast, and somewhat of a cult following at times. I don't think they are going to be in danger of loosing lots of business to DL, such that they are "marginalized". Also, they have a very healthy code share relationship with AA (which DL would lose the benefit of if they bought out AS, incidentally, thus making a non-independent AS less valuable).

AS is not ACA.

Quoting planesntrains (Reply 58):
Because to please the shareholders you'll have to pay a premium on that stock so the final deal will end up being much more than $3.5B, which is already a rich price by itself for what you're getting.

I'm not a stock expert but I still question the LONG TERM value to AS's shareholders if, say, a DL bought them out. There might be a short-term premium price increase, but no guarantee that the long-term stock growth would be as great with DL as it would have been with an independent AS. I thought some others have said that AS's major shareholders have so far been interested in a short-term sell-it-and-get-out premium, but rather long-term growth.

DL may offer a premium for AS, but that doesn't mean that AS's leadership or shareholders has to consider it in the long-term shareholder best interest and accept it.


User currently offlinehatbutton From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1500 posts, RR: 14
Reply 61, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 9331 times:

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 60):
DL may offer a premium for AS, but that doesn't mean that AS's leadership or shareholders has to consider it in the long-term shareholder best interest and accept it.

Good point. A deal doesn't have to be accepted. I remember when FL went after YX really hard. FL tried a few times unsuccessfully to buy them out and offered a premium share price to do so. However, YX would have been better off taking FL's offer than what ultimately happened, but just shows you that you can still reject an offer.


User currently offlineyellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6301 posts, RR: 2
Reply 62, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 9229 times:

The next OAG update should be interesting


When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlinetommy767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6843 posts, RR: 9
Reply 63, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 9237 times:

Can I ask why SEA-LAS? A bit random, IMHO. SEA-ANC should do well for them though.

It would be ballsy for DL to go against AS on focus city to focus city routes like:
BOS-SEA
FLL-SEA
RDU-SEA
PDX-HNL
SEA-PDX



"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
User currently offlineslcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3607 posts, RR: 0
Reply 64, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 8928 times:

[
They dont and wont. Its delta that wants them to.

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 63):
Can I ask why SEA-LAS? A bit random, IMHO. SEA-ANC should do well for them though.

LAS is to feed the Asian flights they have from SEA.


User currently offlineplanesntrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5703 posts, RR: 29
Reply 65, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 8929 times:

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 60):
AS is not ACA.

Of course not, but my point is that if DL gradually pulls its feed away from AS and replaces much of it with it's own strategic SEA adds, Alaska isn't exactly going to be immune to those effects. It won't kill them, but I don't want to underestimate the value of the feed agreement with DL in SEA. It's pretty big.

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 60):
I'm not a stock expert but I still question the LONG TERM value to AS's shareholders if, say, a DL bought them out.

Sure, but all it takes is a one-time gain and those shareholders can cash out and move on to their next investment.

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 63):
Can I ask why SEA-LAS?

Someone pointed out that it feeds the Tokyo routes, but LAS-SEA seems to continue on to ANC as a one-stop from what I can tell.

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2940 posts, RR: 6
Reply 66, posted (1 year 9 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 7596 times:

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 60):
DL may offer a premium for AS, but that doesn't mean that AS's leadership or shareholders has to consider it in the long-term shareholder best interest and accept it.

Indeed, and in the end, if this what DL's shareholders wants them spending their capital on? Maybe, maybe not. Besides, I don't think this would pass regulatory scrutiny. There comes a point when big three just can't keep getting bigger through mergers and acquisitions, and I think we have reached that point. Growth will probably have to come organically from this point forward.


User currently offlineRWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3431 posts, RR: 5
Reply 67, posted (1 year 9 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 7353 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 37):

And since then, AS announced a major upgrade to its AA partnership, hence DL adding anything and everything to SEA

Don't these type of agreements have clauses about competition? For example DL knew AS was in bed with AA, when DL did their thing in Seattle with a 744 and AS employees as the backdrop, with a new closer relationship being touted. If that was such an issue for DL, would DL have not insisted upon a non-compete clause with AA in mind?

Only thing I can reckon, is AS said something along the lines of, "Oh AA, he's just someone I see casually on the side, you are my main squeeze DL".

Quite frankly, if DL had just kept the routes going they inherited from WA, this would not be any big deal.

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 63):
PDX-HNL
SEA-PDX

These two routes are no stranger to DL. I think, DL may do in SEA, what they had in PDX during the Asia hub days, with non-stops to LAX, LAS, SFO, PDX, BOI, DFW, CVG, JFK, ATL, BOS



AA AC AQ AS BD BN CO CS DL EA EZ HA HP KL KN MP MW NK NW OO OZ PA PS QX RC RH RW SA TG TW UA US VS WA WC WN
User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5554 posts, RR: 12
Reply 68, posted (1 year 9 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 6629 times:

Has anyone else noticed that DL has not issued any press releases about any of these new routes over the last week or two? Maybe this is a (another?) clue as to what the main motivation is for adding these flights -- simply new connecting opportunities for their SEA and LAX ops with little desire to attract local traffic?

I don't know but to add this many new routes (I'm trying to make a complete list) with not a single official announcement seems odd for any carrier in today's world...

bb


User currently offlineplanesntrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5703 posts, RR: 29
Reply 69, posted (1 year 9 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 6597 times:

Quoting SANFan (Reply 68):
I don't know but to add this many new routes (I'm trying to make a complete list) with not a single official announcement seems odd for any carrier in today's world...

I think it's odd if they do it without announcing it, if for no other reason than it has a purpose. It isn't about them adding a frequency between ATL and somewhere, but rather about a true build-up or "focus" of sorts in SEA. That in and of itself deserves to be mentioned, though they have talked about it previously.

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offlineDeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9672 posts, RR: 14
Reply 70, posted (1 year 9 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 6549 times:

Quoting United1 (Reply 39):

BKK tends to be a high volume lower yields market....they can certainly get enough passengers to justify a non-stop but I'm not sure they would be able to charge enough to make it profitable.

I was talking about HKG, BKK/SIN wont be seeing much not stop from the US.

Quoting United1 (Reply 39):
What makes no sense to me is why DL would do anything to risk their partnership with AS....without it all of those flights they have to Asia from SEA are at risk.

good question

Quoting syncmaster (Reply 45):
Arguably DL needs to position themselves better on the west coast if/when the AA/US merger is completed.

....why? Not like US bring anything to AA on the west coast

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 60):
I still question the LONG TERM value to AS's shareholders if, say, a DL bought them out.

Of course you do. Just like the NW fan boys saw no way DL could make the offer for the long-term....
The money Delta would make from having a true hub to Asia, the increased presence in LA that would help the corp. contract market and the fact that they would be able to cut some capacity is going to make wall street happy.

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 60):
but no guarantee that the long-term stock growth would be as great with DL as it would have been with an independent AS.

just like there is no guarantee AS is better off alone. Two way street.

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 66):
if this what DL's shareholders wants them spending their capital on? Maybe, maybe not.

Whatever makes money. Highly unlikely much CapEx would be used, as AS has a great balance sheet and likely most of the merger would come via stock swap vs a buyout.

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 66):
Besides, I don't think this would pass regulatory scrutiny

3rd largest airline, with less than 10 routes that over lap (SEA-LAS/ANC/HNL/SLC/ATL/MSP LAX-PVR/SEA).... I don't see the DOT saying no. (also very,very little growth for DL in areas where they hold a ton of slots ie NYC/DCA)

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 66):
There comes a point when big three just can't keep getting bigger through mergers and acquisitions, and I think we have reached that point. Growth will probably have to come organically from this point forward.

Airlines still can't money on fares alone, fuel isn't getting cheaper and cost aren't coming down. One way or another capacity is going to be cut from the market. In a few years with the airlines that are fresh out of BK start getting super high cost again they will either need to raise the price of air travel or fail. Hopefully our government isn't stupid enough to believe that the latest round of consolidation is enough to have some stability in the market.

Anyways, I see no reason why DL/AS would or should be turned down. Again, they have nearly no overlap and its pretty simple to see why its a good idea. (minus the ones that just don't want to see it)



yep.
User currently offlineslcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3607 posts, RR: 0
Reply 71, posted (1 year 9 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 6555 times:

Quoting planesntrains (Reply 69):
think it's odd if they do it without announcing it, if for no other reason than it has a purpose.

SEA is pretty small and they they really are just flying these to feed flights probably temporarily. LAX they didnt issue a press release on either? Given Deltas history at LAX it might be smart they have been extremely inconsistant and cancel happy except the hub flights. These could be just seasonal flying and likely to be cancelled if not real hits maybe also not a reason to issue a press release if they are likely to be pulled.


User currently offlinepanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4955 posts, RR: 25
Reply 72, posted (1 year 9 months 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 6558 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 71):
SEA is pretty small and they they really are just flying these to feed flights probably temporarily. LAX they didnt issue a press release on either?

They issued a press release for the new LAX-SEA service:

http://news.delta.com/index.php?s=43&item=1837


User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13704 posts, RR: 61
Reply 73, posted (1 year 9 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 6384 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 70):
Highly unlikely much CapEx would be used, as AS has a great balance sheet and likely most of the merger would come via stock swap vs a buyout.

A stock swap? You're making the assumption that Alaska Air Group would want to merge, and that's not the case. Unless I'm mistaken, a stock swap cannot take place in a hostile takeover attempt.



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently onlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33194 posts, RR: 71
Reply 74, posted (1 year 9 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 6391 times:

DL/AS could be turned down because the DOT/DOJ might be done approving competition-killing mergers that hurt consumers.

Honestly, if it weren't for the fact that DL/NW and UA/CO were already approved, along with the idiotic WN/FL merger (which was essentially just a way for WN to shut down competition, not actually merge), which created a slippery slope, I don't even think AA/US would have had an easy time.

AS plays a major role in keeping competition in check in the West, similar to B6 in the East. A merger of AS with DL, or AA or UA for that matter, would be terrible for consumers, and I wouldn't be surprised if any such merger was rejected. These mergers are bad for the public, and I bet consolidation ends now.

[Edited 2013-02-22 12:40:22]

[Edited 2013-02-22 12:41:02]


a.
User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2940 posts, RR: 6
Reply 75, posted (1 year 9 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 6329 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 74):
Honestly, if it weren't for the fact that DL/NW and UA/CO were already approved, which created a slippery slope, I don't even think AA/US would have had an easy time.

Also, I think AA being bankruptcy is also factoring into this decision, which even though hasn't been officially approved, is expected to approve. DL and AS, both thriving and solvent, would have a harder time demonstrating to the feds their merger would be in the best interest of the traveling public. Currently, the public is not disadvantaged whatsoever - in fact, DL is providing more choices for consumers with their new flights. Simply offering AS shareholders a boatload of cash for their shares or because they overlap on a few flights isn't enough pass regulatory hurdles.


User currently offlineYukon880 From United States of America, joined Sep 2011, 137 posts, RR: 2
Reply 76, posted (1 year 9 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 6337 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 74):
... along with the idiotic WN/FL merger (which was essentially just a way for WN to shut down competition, not actually merge),...

You are dancing perilously close to the truth here, my friend. And I'm not just talking about the carrier combination you mentioned.
 



Pratt & Whitney, In thrust we trust!
User currently offlinewoodsboy From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 1031 posts, RR: 2
Reply 77, posted (1 year 9 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 6131 times:

DL flew from ANC to SEA and vice versa for 20 years after the Western merger as well as FAI-ANC and the aforementioned FAI-JNU-SLC-DEN which I flew many times on the same 727 all the way from Denver (Stapleton) to Fairbanks in the late 80s and early 90s. One additional SEA-ANC-SEA in the summer says one thing to me- TOURISTS. All those seasonal lower 48 to Alaska flights are for the tourist season both to FAI and ANC. The SEA-ANC corridor is busy both summer and winter but obviously there are not quite as many winter frequencies. DL's presence in Alaska is second only to AS, I wouldnt read much into one SEA-ANC flight, just a few more Princess Tours passengers who need a ride!

User currently offlinewedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5947 posts, RR: 6
Reply 78, posted (1 year 9 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 5920 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

1X daily SEA-LAS and 1X daily SEA-ANC doesn't really constitute a major threat to AS in SEA. SEA only has so much room to accommodate any further expansion by DL. If anything, it supplements Alaska's service to either destination, since they are consistently booked solid.

With DL/AS partnership, they could have to advantage in beating out B6 on the SEA-ANC route or keeping NK out of the SEA market...since they are nearby at PDX.

In any case, it's good to see DL expanding at SEA.


User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5554 posts, RR: 12
Reply 79, posted (1 year 9 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 5784 times:

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 78):
1X daily SEA-LAS and 1X daily SEA-ANC doesn't really constitute a major threat to AS in SEA. SEA only has so much room to accommodate any further expansion by DL. If anything, it supplements Alaska's service to either destination, since they are consistently booked solid.

(Plus 3 x daily mainline LA-SEA.) But I agree to a point. I don't think DL is anywhere near done with their SEA expansion; I would be very surprised if we don't see DL add additional major routes such as SFO, SAN, PHX, and DEN -- and soon. (Most for early summer inaugurals would be my guess.)

We'll have to wait and see the frequencies in the various markets before we can tell for sure whether DL is going after AS's markets to some degree, or if they are just providing their own lift for their own Asian-bound service from SEA.

IMHO, I think this has just begun...

bb


User currently offlineLono From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 1336 posts, RR: 1
Reply 80, posted (1 year 9 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 5333 times:

Quote Woodsboy: "FAI-JNU-SLC-DEN which I flew many times on the same 727 all the way from"

Back in the day we flew:

FAI-JNU-SEA-LAX flight 1708
LAX-SEA-JNU-FAI flight 1705

Never any SLC-JNU or JNU-SLC service.

I as a former WA/DL employee I think the return of DL ANC-SEA service is awesome!
I will be using this flight and using the AS boardroom before I board in ANC.



Wally Bird Ruled the Skys!
User currently offlineslcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3607 posts, RR: 0
Reply 81, posted (1 year 9 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 5292 times:

The whole point of SEA is to use AS for the connection power. I dont see what would be so much better about replicating the entire PDX operation they had in SEA. Sure theres more O&D but theres also tons more competition it balances out they need AS. I could see this being a temporary thing for Delta to have more seats to fill its Asian Flights and they need tons of seats to offer really low prices to fill the Asian flights while they are starting out. That is why i think they didnt issue a press release they are very short just to fill seats and get the routes working. I dont know thats just my guess unless they really are upset about the AS/AA increase in partnership just announced and are trying to make a statement.

User currently offlinewedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5947 posts, RR: 6
Reply 82, posted (1 year 9 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 5017 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting SANFan (Reply 79):
(Plus 3 x daily mainline LA-SEA.) But I agree to a point. I don't think DL is anywhere near done with their SEA expansion; I would be very surprised if we don't see DL add additional major routes such as SFO, SAN, PHX, and DEN -- and soon. (Most for early summer inaugurals would be my guess.)

We'll have to wait and see the frequencies in the various markets before we can tell for sure whether DL is going after AS's markets to some degree, or if they are just providing their own lift for their own Asian-bound service from SEA.

IMHO, I think this has just begun...

Unlike AS who as almost half of the gates at SEA, DL has a limited amount of gates in S-concourse and maybe a couple in A and B concourse. In May, some of the airlines will be moving around including UA completely moving out of N-Concourse and moving to A. I think that corner gate at the south end of Concourse A is 777-capable. B6 and AA are moving to D. AS will partially move out of D and take over all of N. F9 and VX are moving from A to B. All of the airlines are staying put. DL is not getting any new gate resources.

DL really can't make a huge increase in SEA traffic unless they fly in the evenings, like the SEA-ANC or SEA-LAS 1X daily flights. But it doesn't really link up to any of the Asian connections except for SEA-PEK, and maybe SEA-HND and SEA-PVG if they leave late as well.

As you said though, lets see what happens!


User currently offlineUnited777 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1657 posts, RR: 0
Reply 83, posted (1 year 9 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 4714 times:

I flew into SEA from ATL yesterday and we deplaned from Terminal B. I noticed a couple of other DL jets at the terminal as well. DL has always used the South Terminal since moving from Terminal A. Will they be using the B terminal and S terminal now?

User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11153 posts, RR: 59
Reply 84, posted (1 year 9 months 4 days ago) and read 4590 times:

Quoting United777 (Reply 83):
DL has always used the South Terminal since moving from Terminal A. Will they be using the B terminal and S terminal now?

As part of the major realignment occurring at Sea-Tac, a number of gates will become common-use gates, and I see DL as being one of the biggest users of the common-use gates.

Keep in mind that the South Satellite is where all international flights arrive, and with the rapid international expansion Sea-Tac has been experiencing, DL will be forced to use more gates outside of the South Satellite in the future.



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlinewoodsboy From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 1031 posts, RR: 2
Reply 85, posted (1 year 9 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 4467 times:

Quoting Lono (Reply 80):
Back in the day we flew:

FAI-JNU-SEA-LAX flight 1708
LAX-SEA-JNU-FAI flight 1705

Never any SLC-JNU or JNU-SLC service.

I trust you are right about this, but damn if I dont remember being in SLC then off to JNU. Definitely was often the same plane from Denver all the way to Fairbanks, could that have been the case? Different flight # but the same plane? Please dont tell me my memory of 25 years ago is slipping! I was only 18!!  


User currently offlineLono From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 1336 posts, RR: 1
Reply 86, posted (1 year 9 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 4345 times:

Quoting woodsboy (Reply 85):

"I trust you are right about this, but damn if I dont remember being in SLC then off to JNU"

Positive I opened JNU for WA in 1982 and closed the station when DL pulled out.

DL had a SLC-FAI-SLC summer only flight after the JNU station closed. It's purpose was to fly cruise ship PAX.

But never any JNU-SLC-JNU service



Wally Bird Ruled the Skys!
User currently offlineslcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3607 posts, RR: 0
Reply 87, posted (1 year 9 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 4163 times:

Delta did fly SLC-ANC-FAI summer only IIRC

User currently offlineSocalApproach From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 123 posts, RR: 0
Reply 88, posted (1 year 9 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 4107 times:

Quoting United777 (Reply 83):
Will they be using the B terminal and S terminal now?

That is a common use gate they use. They also have used the A terminal as well recently. Over last summer a 757 would routinely arrive at gate A11 around 12pm-1pm ish deplane and then be towed to the S gates. The S concourse is the terminal they use. The only reason DL would use any other gate in my opinion is if there is no gate available in the S concourse for them to use.


User currently offlineUnited777 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1657 posts, RR: 0
Reply 89, posted (1 year 9 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 3788 times:

Thanks for the info! I love DL expanding in SEA. I've always wanted an alt to AS though AS will always be the king in SEA.

User currently offlineOA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5349 posts, RR: 25
Reply 90, posted (1 year 9 months 1 day ago) and read 3469 times:

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 71):
Given Deltas history at LAX it might be smart they have been extremely inconsistant and cancel happy except the hub flights.

This is simply untrue. You really need to look into what DL has going on at LAX because you continue to mischaracterize the situation without providing any actual facts to back up your assertions.



Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
User currently offlineslcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3607 posts, RR: 0
Reply 91, posted (1 year 9 months 1 day ago) and read 3421 times:

Quoting OA412 (Reply 90):
This is simply untrue. You really need to look into what DL has going on at LAX because you continue to mischaracterize the situation without providing any actual facts to back up your assertions.

People said the exact same things everytime and round delta adds at LAX and then pulls back that is history. Lets see Delta call it a hub and have them really commit to the city. If delta were flying three time daily year round BOS-LAX that would be significant if they are gonna fly it once for the summer to test the market that is totally different. Im not saying they wont but Delta has no commitment to LAX still i havnt't seen any major press releases or delta saying they are making a hub at LAX do you? I saw press releases for such major routes as Fort Lauderdale-Mexico City, Dickinson-Minneapolis. Those are facts. I think its another test at good timing and lets see how it goes given AAs merger, VX never improving situation, and UA seeming to prefer SFO. You have no facts to say this time is different than other times delta has done this thats all im saying and nothing i said was wrong even if you didn't like it  


User currently onlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10601 posts, RR: 14
Reply 92, posted (1 year 9 months 23 hours ago) and read 3350 times:

Quoting Lono (Reply 86):
"I trust you are right about this, but damn if I dont remember being in SLC then off to JNU"

Positive I opened JNU for WA in 1982 and closed the station when DL pulled out.

DL had a SLC-FAI-SLC summer only flight after the JNU station closed. It's purpose was to fly cruise ship PAX.

But never any JNU-SLC-JNU service

I seem to remember at some point, that DL was flying SLC-JNU, but it was seasonal and not non-stop. I couldn't give you the time frame, but I do remember it. I'm sort of curious as to how a SLC-FAI-SLC flight would be advantageous to the cruise ship crowd.........kind of out of the way, isn't it?



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineprost From United States of America, joined Oct 2012, 1118 posts, RR: 1
Reply 93, posted (1 year 9 months 23 hours ago) and read 3350 times:

A lot of cruise packages have a tour component that ends up in FAI, either by motorcoach or rail. So lets say you fly to Fairbanks, tour around, train to Anchorage, cruise to Seattle, then home. And vice versa.

User currently offlineYukon880 From United States of America, joined Sep 2011, 137 posts, RR: 2
Reply 94, posted (1 year 9 months 23 hours ago) and read 3353 times:

Quoting mayor (Reply 92):
I'm sort of curious as to how a SLC-FAI-SLC flight would be advantageous to the cruise ship crowd.........kind of out of the way, isn't it?

Out of the way, but makes perfect sense when you consider a great many cruise passengers will include a trip to Denali to see the park, as part of their Alaska vacation. Fairbanks or Anchorage for your flight arrival or departure, with virtually equal ease.

[Edited 2013-02-27 21:09:13]


Pratt & Whitney, In thrust we trust!
User currently offlineLono From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 1336 posts, RR: 1
Reply 95, posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 2954 times:

Quote Mayor: "I seem to remember at some point, that DL was flying SLC-JNU, but it was seasonal and not non-stop. I couldn't give you the time frame, but I do remember it. I'm sort of curious as to how a SLC-FAI-SLC flight would be advantageous to the cruise ship crowd.........kind of out of the way, isn't it?"

Mayor there was never any JNU-SLC service.
FAI is the start or end for thousands of cruise trip itineraries. It is the end of the Alaska railroad. Princess, Holland, Celebrity all have private rail cars and Princess and Holland have large hotels in FAI. So it is not out of the way. It is intrigal to tourism in Alaska.



Wally Bird Ruled the Skys!
User currently offlinebaw716 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2028 posts, RR: 27
Reply 96, posted (1 year 8 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 2722 times:

Folks, let's not get too excited here...

We are talking one flight to ANC and one to LAS? Let's not start talking about AS/DL getting a divorce quite yet. I agree, AS is probably getting pressure to drop AA, but frankly, AS will not succumb to this pressure as it has never gotten into bed with one airline....it's success is predicated on multiple bilateral airline alliances.

I would not be surprised if DL has some extra capacity and/or needs to route aircraft differently and this drives the decision to operate a one leg in each direction kind of service.

One trip a day for DL vs 20 something for AS in the SEA-ANC market is not exactly a huge deal. Same thing for LAS.
The one additional frequency a day will not dilute AS's yields...especially for SEA originating traffic. They own that market.

baw716



David L. Lamb, fmr Area Mgr Alitalia SFO 1998-2002, fmr Regional Analyst SFO-UAL 1992-1998
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Delta Starting LAX-BOS? posted Wed Oct 13 2010 23:33:33 by deltal1011man
OO Starting SEA-MWH posted Thu Feb 19 2009 08:59:20 by Hatbutton
Delta Starting MSP-BOI 01 March? posted Fri Dec 26 2008 09:03:24 by SNCntry32
Delta Starting CVG-GPT/DAB? posted Sun Jan 13 2008 19:27:57 by DLCnxgptjax
Airtran Starting IND-LAS posted Thu Nov 15 2007 19:51:37 by Quickmover
Delta 767 N/C Scheme @ LAS 09SEP07 posted Mon Sep 10 2007 07:20:39 by LASOctoberB6
Delta Starting TTN -BOS/-ATL In Dec! posted Tue Sep 5 2006 12:42:54 by Lrgt
NW Starting FNT-LAS posted Wed Jul 13 2005 15:48:27 by MAH4546
HP Starts LAS-ANC Today posted Sun May 1 2005 21:45:17 by Chugach
HP Adds LAS-ANC, LAS-PIT posted Mon Jan 24 2005 15:02:03 by Cactus739