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DL Enhancing US Transcon Product  
User currently offlinewrldtvlr From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 38 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 7 months 22 hours ago) and read 17350 times:

What really struck me is that they're adding widebody service. Reading this article it looks as if Delta is going after American's premium cross country traffic.

Quote:
New offerings include:
Sparkling wine in BusinessElite®
Copies of The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal and USA Today for BusinessElite customers, beginning later this spring
BusinessElite express meals beginning this fall
Complimentary headsets for all customers seated in Economy Comfort™ and Economy
Complimentary beer, wine, spirits and premium snacks in Economy Comfort in April
Complimentary movies and on-demand TV shows in Economy, plus free HBO® selections and new release movies for customers seated in Economy Comfort starting this summer
375 ml bottles of Hess Select Chardonnay and Meiomi by Belle Glos Pinot Noir available for purchase in Economy Class beginning in March
Starbucks coffee for all transcon customers, beginning this summer
Expanded movie and on-demand TV library, with up to 100 movies to choose from
Upgraded food for purchase menu including more kid-friendly and healthy options beginning this fall
All transcon flights out of New York's JFK will depart from T4, Delta's new international terminal, opening in May


Full article: Delta to Make Investments in the Customer Experience on Transcontinental Flights

120 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25406 posts, RR: 49
Reply 1, posted (1 year 7 months 22 hours ago) and read 17356 times:

Is this not a rehash of the press release from last November ?

Delta Goes Wide-body On JFK-LAX Again (by g500 Nov 5 2012 in Civil Aviation)

http://news.delta.com/index.php?s=43&item=1757

=



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineg500 From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 969 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 7 months 22 hours ago) and read 17297 times:
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Quoting wrldtvlr (Thread starter):
What really struck me is that they're adding widebody service. Reading this article it looks as if Delta is going after American's premium cross country traffic

I firmly believe JFK-LAX and SFO are the most important doemstic routes. Delta is right to invest in those routes

Even XOJet (a CL300 & Citation-X charter operator) is offering on-schedule flights from New York to L.A

let's see what American comes up with. Do they even care since they will be shifting most trans-cons to PHL


User currently offlineluv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 12110 posts, RR: 48
Reply 3, posted (1 year 7 months 22 hours ago) and read 17246 times:
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Quoting g500 (Reply 2):
let's see what American comes up with. Do they even care since they will be shifting most trans-cons to PHL

Why would they be doing that? That makes no sense at all.



You can cut the irony with a knife
User currently offlineLDVAviation From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 1069 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (1 year 7 months 22 hours ago) and read 17237 times:

Quoting g500 (Reply 2):
let's see what American comes up with. Do they even care since they will be shifting most trans-cons to PHL

American already came up with "something". See the link...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20zshmYxhLw

First 5 A321's arrive in the last quarter of this year.


User currently offlinepanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4910 posts, RR: 24
Reply 5, posted (1 year 7 months 22 hours ago) and read 17205 times:
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Quoting LAXintl (Reply 1):
Is this not a rehash of the press release from last November ?

No, the November press release focused on the flat-beds in J, whereas today's announcement concerns other soft product enhancements, not just to BusinessElite, but also to Economy Comfort as well as to regular Economy.


User currently offlinejfklganyc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3481 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (1 year 7 months 22 hours ago) and read 17203 times:

Delta has been enhancing lax and sfo transcons from jfk for 20 years. I have a sky magazine article about it from a high school band trip lga mco in 1996.

Things get refreshwd from time to time...but basically this is an opportunity for a fresh press release

The best thing delta has done for this route in the last decade is smaller planes and more frequency

Lax used to be 4 767 300 business elite a day. Sfo less.

The key to the business traveller is frequency and f product. They have both


User currently offlineJosh32121 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 369 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (1 year 7 months 22 hours ago) and read 17186 times:

Quoting g500 (Reply 2):
let's see what American comes up with. Do they even care since they will be shifting most trans-cons to PHL

What do you mean? AA has already announced their new transcon product to be offered on A321's. Big buzz about it on here. The DL product enhancements were largely thought to be a response to that announcement.

And I think your assumption that all transcon flying will be shifted to PHL is a multitude of adjectives including but not limited to crazy, clueless, bizarre, naive, etc. AA has a huge FF base in the LA and NYC markets, and JFK-LAX is arguably (as another poster suggested) the most lucrative domestic route in the U.S., and AA is the leader on it. They are not giving that up. Hollywood doesn't want to fly to PHL. They want to fly to NYC.

[Edited 2013-02-22 09:00:51]

[Edited 2013-02-22 09:03:06]

User currently offlineLDVAviation From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 1069 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (1 year 7 months 22 hours ago) and read 17182 times:

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 6):
The key to the business traveller is frequency and f product. They have both

The key is corporate contracts. Delta continues chasing what AA and UA have owned for years.


User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2924 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (1 year 7 months 22 hours ago) and read 17165 times:

Quoting g500 (Reply 2):
let's see what American comes up with. Do they even care since they will be shifting most trans-cons to PHL

The most ridiculous thing I've read on a.net for awhile. AA will most certainly do what it takes to be competitive in the transcon market, most notably LAX/SFO-JFK.


User currently offlineDL WIDGET HEAD From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 2094 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (1 year 7 months 21 hours ago) and read 17045 times:

Surprised to see Starbucks coffee in the offing. Thought DL had a thing with Seattle's Best. Nonetheless, I like the enhancements. Shouldn't be limited to NYC transcons though.

User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17511 posts, RR: 45
Reply 11, posted (1 year 7 months 21 hours ago) and read 16956 times:

Did I miss lie flats on 757s at DL? When/where/how?

Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 8):

The key is corporate contracts. Delta continues chasing what AA and UA have owned for years.

   I wish the business chased the improved product, but if it did, AA/UA wouldn't be the market leaders in transcons. On the bright side passengers have never had so many improved/ing products to choose from transcon.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlinepanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4910 posts, RR: 24
Reply 12, posted (1 year 7 months 21 hours ago) and read 16913 times:
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Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 11):
Did I miss lie flats on 757s at DL? When/where/how?
http://news.delta.com/index.php?s=43&item=1757

"....Sixteen full flat-bed seats on the updated transcontinental 757 fleet will be arranged in a 2-2 configuration and offer a 20-inch wide seat and an average bed length of 79 inches. Each BusinessElite seat will feature a high definition 16-inch video monitor. This fleet modification will also include changes to the Economy cabin, with 44 Economy Comfort seats offering 35 inches of pitch and 50 percent more recline, in addition to 108 Economy seats. All seats in the Economy cabin will feature a nine-inch video monitor, with standard 110v and USB power ports available at every seat...."


User currently offlinedavescj From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 2307 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (1 year 7 months 21 hours ago) and read 16915 times:

Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 8):
The key is corporate contracts. Delta continues chasing what AA and UA have owned for years.

And we have a winner!

This has to be designed to go head/head with United PS service.

Quoting DL WIDGET HEAD (Reply 10):
Surprised to see Starbucks coffee in the offing. Thought DL had a thing with Seattle's Best. Nonetheless, I like the enhancements. Shouldn't be limited to NYC transcons though.

I agree about the coffee. I wonder what that was about.

NYC is the prime biz destination. But I do wonder if PHL/BOS for example could support similar premium traffic. It would seem to make some sense.

Bravo for the enhancements.

Dave



Can I have a mojito on this flight?
User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2924 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (1 year 7 months 21 hours ago) and read 16762 times:

Quoting DL WIDGET HEAD (Reply 10):
Thought DL had a thing with Seattle's Best.

Seattle's Best is owned by Starbucks, however my guess us that there was some behind the scenes negotiating with corporate contracts to position DL more favorably with the green giant.

Oy maybe Starbucks is buying DL. Let's the rumors begin.

(that was a joke)

[Edited 2013-02-22 09:39:53]

User currently onlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17511 posts, RR: 45
Reply 15, posted (1 year 7 months 21 hours ago) and read 16747 times:

Quoting panamair (Reply 12):
"....Sixteen full flat-bed seats on the updated transcontinental 757 fleet will be arranged in a 2-2 configuration and offer a 20-inch wide seat and an average bed length of 79 inches.

Which seat is this? Any pics?



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlinebobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1725 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (1 year 7 months 21 hours ago) and read 16683 times:

Quoting wrldtvlr (Thread starter):
What really struck me is that they're adding widebody service. Reading this article it looks as if Delta is going after American's premium cross country traffic.

Their enhancements are a big "So What???"

You mean to tell me they didnt offer newspapers to travellers in C class previously????

Quoting g500 (Reply 2):
let's see what American comes up with. Do they even care since they will be shifting most trans-cons to PHL

AA will not be shifting most of their transcons to PHL...sheesh. We know what AA is going to comeup with PS style A321s.

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 9):
The most ridiculous thing I've read on a.net for awhile. AA will most certainly do what it takes to be competitive in the transcon market, most notably LAX/SFO-JFK.

There have been fat too many ridiculous thins said on this site in the past few months


User currently offlinepanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4910 posts, RR: 24
Reply 17, posted (1 year 7 months 21 hours ago) and read 16604 times:
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Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 15):
Which seat is this? Any pics?

No pics yet...believe it will be the BE Aerospace Diamond seat with some DL customization...IIRC, seat is similar to the flat-bed seats CO was installing (and will be on the new UA transcon 757s)


User currently offlineredzeppelin From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 598 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (1 year 7 months 21 hours ago) and read 16543 times:

Just did a check for April, and DL is charging $169 for one-way economy fares on LAX-JFK. Amazing. I don't know what the mark-up is for economy comfort, but the enhanced entertainment and catering make that a very attractive option. Medallions with free EC seating are getting spoiled with that. But the business fare are a lot higher on the same day: $1919 on the 752, $1973 in the 763 with flat beds. A one-stop via ATL in regular domestic first can be had for as little as $871.
Not sure how the fares compare to AA/UA... don't have time to look right now.

Edit: just checked--on the same day, AA charges $164/$1915, UA $169/$1920, and B6 $169. So they are all in the same ballpark, with B6 likely driving the low economy fares. I live in a market with no LCCs, and one-way fares like that still surprise me, especially for t-cons. I don't shop those routes very much.

[Edited 2013-02-22 10:07:08]


Flown: DL,OS,NZ,UN,VV,NW,AA,UA,HP,TZ,AS,AF,KL,SK,WS,AZ,OK; op by OO,MQ,XJ,9E,G7,EV,QX,RP
User currently offlineDeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9425 posts, RR: 14
Reply 19, posted (1 year 7 months 20 hours ago) and read 16525 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 15):
Which seat is this? Any pics?

IIRC its base model will be like the CO C seat. DL will have some minor tweaks to it.



yep.
User currently offlinePIEAvantiP180 From United States of America, joined Sep 2009, 539 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (1 year 7 months 20 hours ago) and read 16247 times:
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Quoting redzeppelin (Reply 18):

JFK-LAX, SFO have seen a lot of competition lately and its driving the prices down, and its not helping to see UA go to almost 15x daily on LAX, SFO-EWR so they can stick it to VX. At this point i can't see how any carrier is making any money on these transcon flights.


User currently offlineCODC10 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2412 posts, RR: 6
Reply 21, posted (1 year 7 months 19 hours ago) and read 16211 times:

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 19):
IIRC its base model will be like the CO C seat. DL will have some minor tweaks to it.

So the business class products on the JFK premium transcons will have the same hard products... interesting. The only thing left to compete on is soft product, which Delta 'gets'.


User currently offlineslcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3469 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 7 months 19 hours ago) and read 16194 times:

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 14):
Oy maybe Starbucks is buying DL.

No everyone thinks delta will takeover everyone/everything/every city. It would be delta is buying starbucks.


User currently offlineAeroflot777 From Russia, joined Mar 2004, 3008 posts, RR: 26
Reply 23, posted (1 year 7 months 19 hours ago) and read 15786 times:

Delta has always been my carrier of choice (whenever SU is unavailable), and I travel the SFO-JFK sector back and forth quite a few times a year. While the service is always great - never have any complaints, I was always surprised by the lack of proper IFE on the flights. The seat-back TV/movie selection on the SFO/LAX-JFK sectors is ridiculous, especially when compared to the offerings of B6 and VX on the same routes. Free selection is super limited and overall bleak. Back when Song was in existence, things were good and I made it a point to always fly with them, once the re-brand happened things went downhill in that particular department.

In any case, glad to hear that DL is finally sprucing up that much needed aspect of those trans-con flights. It's about time.

Aeroflot777


User currently offlineg500 From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 969 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 7 months 19 hours ago) and read 15529 times:
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Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 9):
The most ridiculous thing I've read on a.net for awhile. AA will most certainly do what it takes to be competitive in the transcon market, most notably LAX/SFO-JFK.

Easy tiger, easy... i admit that wasn't my best post ever but take it easy


User currently offlineAirAfreak From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 716 posts, RR: 0
Reply 25, posted (1 year 7 months 18 hours ago) and read 16158 times:
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DL needs to fix it's DineUp Program. Twice I have ordered meals from DineUp and twice nothing was loaded onto the aircraft. The F/A's response were something regarding to the time of day or lack of snack service, however, the DineUp Service is available on the website for the 11p red-eye LAXJFK and the 9p JFKLAX.

Headsets are already free in all cabins as of now in case anyone cares.

Glad to hear the return of widebody flights and TRUE Businesselite U.S.!!!!

Bon Voyage,

AirAfreak



Do you lead an Intercontinental life?
User currently offlineLDVAviation From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 1069 posts, RR: 4
Reply 26, posted (1 year 7 months 18 hours ago) and read 15929 times:

Quoting CODC10 (Reply 21):
So the business class products on the JFK premium transcons will have the same hard products... interesting. The only thing left to compete on is soft product, which Delta 'gets'.

AA will still offer a true "F" product in a 1 by 1 arrangement with aisle access.


User currently offlinemanny From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 473 posts, RR: 0
Reply 27, posted (1 year 7 months 18 hours ago) and read 16377 times:

From what i see DL is just getting to 90% of what major European carriers offer. So no big deal. Its like you take away a lot and then offer some back after almost half a decade.

On another note i do not see the benefit of offering newspapers in this day and age. At some point airlines have to think of providing news via some interface that stores the news at time of departure in the inflight entertainment system for everyone to access. Would save a lot of trees.


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32789 posts, RR: 72
Reply 28, posted (1 year 7 months 18 hours ago) and read 16282 times:

Quoting redzeppelin (Reply 18):
Edit: just checked--on the same day, AA charges $164/$1915, UA $169/$1920, and B6 $169. So they are all in the same ballpark, with B6 likely driving the low economy fares. I live in a market with no LCCs, and one-way fares like that still surprise me, especially for t-cons. I don't shop those routes very much.

UA has the highest average fares in the market, followed by AA.

Then VX, then B6 and last place, DL, despite having an F cabin while B6 does not.

And I doubt anybody makes a dime on these routes, but they are important in the grand scheme of things, especially in luring lucrative corporate contracts.



a.
User currently offlinecloudboy From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 828 posts, RR: 0
Reply 29, posted (1 year 7 months 17 hours ago) and read 15533 times:

I think this also has to do with the upcoming changes to Skymiles. As fewer passengers are going to be getting upgraded on this flight (and it is already hard enough), they are starting to look elsewhere for East Cost/West Coast flights, and the fact is other airlines do provide better products. So, throw in free movies and headsets and hope you get a few of those customers back.


"Six becoming three doesn't create more Americans that want to fly." -Adam Pilarski
User currently offlineklkla From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 933 posts, RR: 0
Reply 30, posted (1 year 7 months 17 hours ago) and read 15364 times:

Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 26):
AA will still offer a true "F" product in a 1 by 1 arrangement with aisle access.

This is what was announced but I have a feeling Doug Parker will change this plan. The planned configuration for the transcon A321's is not practical and a waste of space. I would be willing to bet the configuration of the A321's will end up being closer to what UA and DL are doing on their 757's with lie-flats in business and more economy seats.


User currently offlineRoseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9643 posts, RR: 52
Reply 31, posted (1 year 7 months 17 hours ago) and read 15096 times:

The one thing I find of note is that SEA-JFK is a premium market route now. Not much is changing for SFO and LAX. Previously LAX-JFK and SFO-JFK have received premium treatment. SEA has been the standard 737NG domestic product. DL is going after SEA, and will be the only one offering anything above the generic domestic F from SEA.


If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlinebrilondon From Canada, joined Aug 2005, 4229 posts, RR: 1
Reply 32, posted (1 year 7 months 17 hours ago) and read 14988 times:

I like the upgrades. They could do away with the "free newspapers'; first of all they are not free, second newspapers are really just good for people like my dad who like to rehash what he saw on the news the previous night and second it is an antiquated medium from the 16th century. I think that those newspapers that they are supplying are out of date and really just a repeat of the news I did not care about the previous day. I do like express meals as well as the nice wine available for consumption in Y+. Shows that not all US airlines are in a race to reach the bottom.


Rush for ever; Yankees all the way!!
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32789 posts, RR: 72
Reply 33, posted (1 year 7 months 16 hours ago) and read 14849 times:

Quoting klkla (Reply 30):
Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 26):
AA will still offer a true "F" product in a 1 by 1 arrangement with aisle access.

This is what was announced but I have a feeling Doug Parker will change this plan. The planned configuration for the transcon A321's is not practical and a waste of space. I would be willing to bet the configuration of the A321's will end up being closer to what UA and DL are doing on their 757's with lie-flats in business and more economy seats.

AA already re-confirmed the 3-class configuration with the merger announcement and the first batch of seats have been manufactured.

AA was very strongly considering switching to a 2-class configuration, until it spoke with a large number of studio clients who promised AA more travel if they stayed with 3-class. It is practical when you want to lock in the most profitable LAXJFK travellers.

I realize you really, really want AA service to degrade to US levels, but there are no signs of that happening.

If 3-class doesn't work out, then maybe a few years down the line, AA will switch to 2-class. But 3-class A321s are happening and are being delivered. And the A321 fleet is expected to number 20-22 frames (as opposed to 15 762s), as AA will be upping JFK-California frequency, and is evalutating how the product can be used effectively on MIALAX, which is the second most important route for studios.



a.
User currently offline2cn From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 648 posts, RR: 0
Reply 34, posted (1 year 7 months 16 hours ago) and read 14226 times:

Quoting DL WIDGET HEAD (Reply 10):
Surprised to see Starbucks coffee in the offing. Thought DL had a thing with Seattle's Best.

Probably has something to do with Starbucks owning Seatles Best and the reputation the Starbucks brand has over Seattle's Best (When I see Seattle's Best I think of Burger King/Subway...while Starbucks with premium brands/locations)


User currently offlineAA94 From United States of America, joined Aug 2011, 600 posts, RR: 2
Reply 35, posted (1 year 7 months 15 hours ago) and read 14157 times:

Quoting klkla (Reply 30):
This is what was announced but I have a feeling Doug Parker will change this plan. The planned configuration for the transcon A321's is not practical and a waste of space. I would be willing to bet the configuration of the A321's will end up being closer to what UA and DL are doing on their 757's with lie-flats in business and more economy seats.

... then Doug Parker would be even more of a moron than we originally thought. AA hasn't become the Hollywood "go-to" on this route by offering a subpar product (*cough US *cough*). The types of people who fly LAX-JFK-LAX route want a dedicated, lie-flat premium product and are willing to pay enough to make that a reality.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 33):
If 3-class doesn't work out, then maybe a few years down the line, AA will switch to 2-class. But 3-class A321s are happening and are being delivered. And the A321 fleet is expected to number 20-22 frames (as opposed to 15 762s), as AA will be upping JFK-California frequency, and is evalutating how the product can be used effectively on MIALAX, which is the second most important route for studios.

  

There's a reason the 3-class product has stuck around on that route for so many years; it's a moneymaker that gives AA a slight advantage on that route.



Choose a challenge over competence / Eleanor Roosevelt
User currently offlinejetlanta From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 3297 posts, RR: 35
Reply 36, posted (1 year 7 months 14 hours ago) and read 13221 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 28):
UA has the highest average fares in the market, followed by AA.

Then VX, then B6 and last place, DL, despite having an F cabin while B6 does not.

Simply not true. While DL is behind AA, UA and VX, it beats B6. This is true in 3Q12 and for the year ended 3Q12.

I'd also mention that Delta has, by far, the largest ratio of economy versus premium seats in the market compared to AA and UA. Its average fare SHOULD be lower.

That lower average fare has been buying Delta improved market share. In 3Q12, Delta carried 23% of the market which was second only to AA's 24.9%. That is a huge improvement versus where they have been. I'll also add, as I have many times before, Delta has been significantly handicapped by their JFK facility for years. That will change soon enough.

I don't expect that Delta is going to match AA in this market in the near term, but your constant characterization of Delta as a hapless wannabe in this market is not only tired, its inaccurate.


User currently offlineklkla From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 933 posts, RR: 0
Reply 37, posted (1 year 7 months 14 hours ago) and read 13161 times:

Quoting AA94 (Reply 35):
AA hasn't become the Hollywood "go-to" on this route by offering a subpar product

Have you flown AA on this route? It's not a "go-to" route it's a "going back to the 80's" retro disaster. The 762's on this route are in awful shape with an antiquated hard product & mediocre soft product and both DL and UA will have completely upgraded their competing product before AA even starts.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 33):
I realize you really, really want AA service to degrade to US levels, but there are no signs of that happening.

I don't really, really want anything. I'm just being realistic. A lot of people on here until recently said United's yields were so amazing with their three class product on this route and yet we see where that's going. I think AA is going to go the same route (and that doesn't mean they can't have a great two class product if they really try).


User currently offlineATL From United States of America, joined Nov 2011, 68 posts, RR: 0
Reply 38, posted (1 year 7 months 13 hours ago) and read 12837 times:

Quoting g500 (Reply 24):
Easy tiger, easy... i admit that wasn't my best post ever but take it easy

some people on A.net are very petty and take any chance they get to feel superior to others... Everybody makes wrong judgements, don't worry about it


User currently offlinecaptainstefan From United States of America, joined May 2007, 429 posts, RR: 0
Reply 39, posted (1 year 7 months 13 hours ago) and read 12755 times:

Quoting panamair (Reply 12):
with 44 Economy Comfort seats offering 35 inches of pitch and 50 percent more recline, in addition to 108 Economy seats.

Isn't this almost double what the normal fleet of 757s carry in EC? This seems like they've decided to match the amount of seats UA offers in Economy Plus.



Long Live the Tulip!
User currently offlineLDVAviation From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 1069 posts, RR: 4
Reply 40, posted (1 year 7 months 12 hours ago) and read 12150 times:

Quoting klkla (Reply 37):
Have you flown AA on this route? It's not a "go-to" route it's a "going back to the 80's" retro disaster. The 762's on this route are in awful shape with an antiquated hard product & mediocre soft product and both DL and UA will have completely upgraded their competing product before AA even starts.

I flew the route last year. It is not a retro disaster. The hard product was upgraded about 4 to 5 years ago. (Seats in F are not lie-flat, but only UA was getting those 4 to 5 years ago.)

In domestic F (J), AA's meal service is better than anything UA and DL currently offer.


User currently offlinePRAirbus From Puerto Rico, joined Apr 2005, 1139 posts, RR: 1
Reply 41, posted (1 year 7 months 11 hours ago) and read 11752 times:

AA has been offering similar amenities in its Premium Cabins on JFK transcons for quite a while...  

User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32789 posts, RR: 72
Reply 42, posted (1 year 7 months 9 hours ago) and read 11077 times:

Quoting klkla (Reply 37):
Have you flown AA on this route? It's not a "go-to" route it's a "going back to the 80's" retro disaster. The 762's on this route are in awful shape with an antiquated hard product & mediocre soft product and both DL and UA will have completely upgraded their competing product before AA even starts.

Clearly you haven't flown AA on this route, as the interiors of the 762 fleet were entirely stripped and rebuilt in 2008-10.

The J seats are wide angle recliners just like UA and DL.

And I didn't realize the 175 degree flat seats in F existed in the 1980s. Interesting.

AA's soft product - from check in to on board to arrival - is bar none the best on the route, which is why it continues to win premium passengers and corporate travelers on trans-cons. But soft product is matter of opinion, so many will disagree, but people speak loud with their wallets.

It's new A321 product - which disappoints many such as yourself in the fact it's actually going to launch - will be absolutely class leading, and will also include a brand new soft product. Part of the new soft product launched in November with new food options.

Quoting klkla (Reply 37):
I don't really, really want anything. I'm just being realistic.

Saying that AA won't take delivery of an announced and highhly toutd product that is a few months away from launching, and in which the interiors have already been ordered, is not being realistic. It's expressing a desire to not want to see AA improve its already market leading product.

If you want to claim that in 5-7 years, AA feels that 2-class is the way to go, then, sure, maybe that will happen.

[Edited 2013-02-22 21:20:26]


a.
User currently offlinecrAAzy From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 787 posts, RR: 0
Reply 43, posted (1 year 7 months 9 hours ago) and read 10966 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting klkla (Reply 30):

This is what was announced but I have a feeling Doug Parker will change this plan. The planned configuration for the transcon A321's is not practical and a waste of space. I would be willing to bet the configuration of the A321's will end up being closer to what UA and DL are doing on their 757's with lie-flats in business and more economy seats.

You really need to pull your head out of the sand when you comment about AA - especially when you have no clue and no insight at all.

Quoting klkla (Reply 37):

Have you flown AA on this route? It's not a "go-to" route it's a "going back to the 80's" retro disaster. The 762's on this route are in awful shape with an antiquated hard product & mediocre soft product and both DL and UA will have completely upgraded their competing product before AA even starts.

Yes - and from drop off, airport services, lounge services, premium inflight products, and arrival services AA on both ends still is the "go-to" carrier for the majority. Just look at the number of F seats they are planning for their A321s and that says it all.


User currently offlinequestions From Australia, joined Sep 2011, 782 posts, RR: 1
Reply 44, posted (1 year 7 months 8 hours ago) and read 10659 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 42):
AA's soft product - from check in to on board to arrival - is bar none the best on the route, which is why it continues to win premium passengers and corporate travelers on trans-cons.

Is DL considered a flying mobile home?


User currently offlineusa330300 From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 73 posts, RR: 0
Reply 45, posted (1 year 7 months 2 hours ago) and read 9542 times:

Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 4):
. Do they even care since they will be shifting most trans-cons to PHL

Clearly you are uninformed. They, the new AA, will not be shifting any transcon to PHL. It is possible they may add transcon, at the same time of continuing ops at JFK.


User currently offlinetoobz From Finland, joined Jan 2010, 785 posts, RR: 0
Reply 46, posted (1 year 7 months 1 hour ago) and read 9411 times:

Awesome to see DL continuing the push to better its products on offer. Of course the usual suspects are downplaying this. But since they fly AA anyway, I guess this is more intended for the DL cust that will appreciate these upgrades in service.

User currently offlineEricR From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 1904 posts, RR: 1
Reply 47, posted (1 year 7 months ago) and read 9197 times:



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 33):

This is what was announced but I have a feeling Doug Parker will change this plan. The planned configuration for the transcon A321's is not practical and a waste of space. I would be willing to bet the configuration of the A321's will end up being closer to what UA and DL are doing on their 757's with lie-flats in business and more economy seats.

AA already re-confirmed the 3-class configuration with the merger announcement and the first batch of seats have been manufactured.

AA was very strongly considering switching to a 2-class configuration, until it spoke with a large number of studio clients who promised AA more travel if they stayed with 3-class. It is practical when you want to lock in the most profitable LAXJFK travellers.

I realize you really, really want AA service to degrade to US levels, but there are no signs of that happening.

If 3-class doesn't work out, then maybe a few years down the line, AA will switch to 2-class. But 3-class A321s are happening and are being delivered. And the A321 fleet is expected to number 20-22 frames (as opposed to 15 762s), as AA will be upping JFK-California frequency, and is evalutating how the product can be used effectively on MIALAX, which is the second most important route for studios.
.




Airlines are a business and need to make money. While you like to tout the premium fares that AA gets on the transcon's, you seem to totally disregard the costs that AA has to incur to support a 3 class product.

While AA's premium 3 class strategy has allowed them to capture the Hollywood crowd / studios (more about hype than profitability), it is clear that it is extremely costly to support this strategy and has NOT proved to be a gold mine for AA. AA uses the 3 class layout to distinguish its product from other carriers, but in this day and age, it is not a highly or even marginally profitable approach.

Also, most corporate customers do not allow F class travel domestically, so the F offering benefits few outside of the studios.


User currently offlinejfklganyc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3481 posts, RR: 5
Reply 48, posted (1 year 7 months ago) and read 9082 times:

Quoting klkla (Reply 37):

Have you flown AA on this route? It's not a "go-to" route it's a "going back to the 80's" retro disaster. The 762's on this route are in awful shape with an antiquated hard product & mediocre soft product and both DL and UA will have completely upgraded their competing product before AA even starts.

Dude, turn on TMZ at 630. They're not outside the Delta or United terminals at LAX or JFK. And certainly not at EWR at all.

AA...That's where the stars are.


User currently offlineSkyTeamTriStar From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 392 posts, RR: 0
Reply 49, posted (1 year 7 months ago) and read 8979 times:

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 31):
DL is going after SEA, and will be the only one offering anything above the generic domestic F from SEA.

Yes, DL is totally going after SEA in a big way. RA has said it again, on his latest code-a-phone message....SEA is DLs permanent, full-fledged, largest....."forever and ever".....West Coast HUB for Trans-Pac flying. So, this also comfirms your statement, too.


User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 50, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 8898 times:

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 48):

Funny because whenever I'm watching TMZ I see the Delta bag belt a lot. At least more so than you're claiming.



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlinebobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1725 posts, RR: 1
Reply 51, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 8787 times:

Quoting jetlanta (Reply 36):
Simply not true. While DL is behind AA, UA and VX, it beats B6. This is true in 3Q12 and for the year ended 3Q12.

B6 isn't chasing the same traffic as everyone else. In fact I'd bet that only B6 makes any money on this route. They have the lowest costs in a over crowded market.

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 31):
The one thing I find of note is that SEA-JFK is a premium market route now

How so? Are there now lots of C class bookings?


User currently offlineLDVAviation From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 1069 posts, RR: 4
Reply 52, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 8335 times:

Quoting EricR (Reply 47):
Also, most corporate customers do not allow F class travel domestically, so the F offering benefits few outside of the studios.

It is also about inventory flexibility at the higher end, rather than the lower end.

In other words, it means you can overbook J class or sell an extra J class seat when there is no actual availability because you have the option of upgrading a J-class/EXP to First.

With only two classes, the likelihood is that in an oversold situation, especially at popular flight times, you will be upgrading an economy passenger to your best product.

One more thing, though AA doesn't promote the conduct. AA has corporate contracts in the LA area that allow J class on flights connecting to an international flight. It is possible to book such connections over JFK, via a transcon. However, these are not connections which AA promotes because AA tends to isolate JFK for O&D passengers.


User currently offlineEricR From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 1904 posts, RR: 1
Reply 53, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 8145 times:

Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 52):
It is also about inventory flexibility at the higher end, rather than the lower end.

In other words, it means you can overbook J class or sell an extra J class seat when there is no actual availability because you have the option of upgrading a J-class/EXP to First.
.



So now you are filling an extremely costly class of service (F class) with upgrades. This is not the most efficient way to run an airline.

Also, check out the percentage a premium class seats that are actually sold versus upgrades. There are plenty of J class seats available to purchase. What you are referring to is that there are not enough J class seats to meet the demand of those who want J class for the price of Y (ie. upgrades).

I am not a fan of one airline or another, but DL has found the correct revenue/cost mix by offering a sold J class and higher capacity planes than AA/UA have by offering a lower capacity premium product in hopes that they can sell (not upgrade) a decent number of F & J seats.

[Edited 2013-02-23 09:46:51]

User currently offlineklkla From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 933 posts, RR: 0
Reply 54, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 8094 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 42):
Clearly you haven't flown AA on this route, as the interiors of the 762 fleet were entirely stripped and rebuilt in 2008-10.

I have. You can put lipstick on a pig but it's still a pig. The food in first was about on par with DL for this route while looking back at business what they got was clearly not as good as DL.

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 48):
Dude, turn on TMZ at 630. They're not outside the Delta or United terminals at LAX or JFK. And certainly not at EWR at all.

AA...That's where the stars are.

Dude I've seen plenty of celebrities flying DL on this route.

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 50):
Funny because whenever I'm watching TMZ I see the Delta bag belt a lot. At least more so than you're claiming.

  


User currently offlineVC10er From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 2898 posts, RR: 9
Reply 55, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 8025 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

I always fly United PS since they launched PS, and at the time it was an astounding leap forward. The only mistake they made was using the old Singapore international business angled lie flat for the F cabin. Each time I flew to or from LAX, the F cabin was star studded. I once met both Paula Abdul and Michael Phelps. I have been in the F cabin with Segourney Weaver, Dustin Hoffmann, and Phillis Diller (may she rest in peace). I don't know if those same people will fly United once it's just 2 class, even though the new seat is a vast improvement over current, as the movie stars won't have a private little cabin. But the rest of the business masses will pay for such a great seat for only a 4.5 or 6 hour flight. United's duvets and pillows are great. The food started out great and is now bla airplane food that sounds awesome on the menu card!

But, if all 3 offer seats and service that is about the same; who cares about the details? Geeez, how much do people need if you're in a lie flat seat etc. Or if you are in an enhanced economy, that isn't torture either for that long a flight.

So, I toast American, Delta and United PS, it sure beats the 1980's which was great too for those days. We just didn't know how good it could get.

The one thing that United did do well was to brand the service as PS. It added extra lure. IMHO, they should add a few flights a day from EWR too.



The world is missing love, let's use our flights to spread it!
User currently offlinebastew From Australia, joined Sep 2006, 1028 posts, RR: 2
Reply 56, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 7959 times:

Am I right in thinking that AA is the only airline with a three class F/J/Y service between JFK and LAX? Or does UA offer F & J also?

I guess the big deal here is fully flat. Even the F seats on AA's transcon 767-200's are not fully flat. Although both their F & J seats will be flat on the new A321 aircraft.

How does AA's current F transcon product stack up against the new DL transcon improvements?

Do they currently offer sparking wine, newspapers etc? TBH I would have taken it as a given that any F product on such a prime route would offer these items. Access to the Flagship Lounge is a nice perk though.


User currently onlineSligo From United States of America, joined Jan 2013, 142 posts, RR: 0
Reply 57, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 7909 times:

1. I thought SAG had a contract change last year where F was no longer a requirement when certain ppl flew; J instead. Im not an expert on Hollywood's labor contracts or anything...that's what I heard and that was supposed to mean fewer F seats on JFK-LAX. But AA hasnt done it. Anyone have insight?

2. On the Starbucks vs Seattle Best thing- yes, SBUX tries to be protective of SBUX and tries to push Seattle on what they conosider are non-premium licensed locations. Their success of making that differentiation of the years is mixed at best

3. Indeed this route (LAX esp) is all about corporate contracts; DL wants them and AA/UA dont want to let them go to DL. But DL has them both severly out-flanked now schedule-wise except with the Holland Tunnell and NJ crowd.


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32789 posts, RR: 72
Reply 58, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 7893 times:

Quoting EricR (Reply 53):
So now you are filling an extremely costly class of service (F class) with upgrades. This is not the most efficient way to run an airline.

At AA? No. The only way to upgrade into F is if you already paid for a J ticket and want to use miles or one of your valuable SWUs.

Quoting klkla (Reply 54):
I have. You can put lipstick on a pig but it's still a pig. The food in first was about on par with DL for this route while looking back at business what they got was clearly not as good as DL.

You do you realize they get the same food in smaller portions and with one less menu option, right? So try again.

Quoting Sligo (Reply 57):
Reply 57, posted Sat Feb 23 2013 10:28:47 your local time (4 minutes ago) and read 14 times:

1. I thought SAG had a contract change last year where F was no longer a requirement when certain ppl flew; J instead. Im not an expert on Hollywood's labor contracts or anything...that's what I heard and that was supposed to mean fewer F seats on JFK-LAX. But AA hasnt done it. Anyone have insight?

3. Indeed this route (LAX esp) is all about corporate contracts; DL wants them and AA/UA dont want to let them go to DL. But DL has them both severly out-flanked now schedule-wise except with the Holland Tunnell and NJ crowd.

1. Yes, but that is irrelevant. High profile AFTRA members are going to fly F anyway. Further, so are studio execs. AA just recently got a carve out at a major studio giving them all JFK/MIA-LAX and putting the execs in 3-class F. And it happened not long after the A321 announcement, not coincidentally.

3) Not sure about UA, but AA offers the most frequent LAXJFK service, and I've heard will be going to 12x daily with the A321s.



a.
User currently onlineSligo From United States of America, joined Jan 2013, 142 posts, RR: 0
Reply 59, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 7853 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 58):
3) Not sure about UA, but AA offers the most frequent LAXJFK service, and I've heard will be going to 12x daily with the A321s.

Right. I should have been more clear. Not JFK-LAX schedule-wise, but NYC in general. And soon they'll have the facilties to not be universally superior...but at least out of the gutter in JFK; and excellent in some areas. All good news for consumers.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 58):
1. Yes, but that is irrelevant. High profile AFTRA members are going to fly F anyway. Further, so are studio execs. AA just recently got a carve out at a major studio giving them all JFK/MIA-LAX and putting the execs in 3-class F. And it happened not long after the A321 announcement, not coincidentally.

Interesting. I wouldnt have guessed it would be "irrelvant"; maybe irrelevant to AA, but relevant to UA?


User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20640 posts, RR: 62
Reply 60, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 7852 times:

Quoting bastew (Reply 56):
Or does UA offer F & J also?

For the time being, yes. According to United, the first p.s. 757 is already being modified from 3-class to 2-class with 28 seats in Business, 48 seats in Economy Plus, and 66 seats in regular Economy.

As of June 6, 2013, all p.s. flights will be sold as 2-class regardless of the actual configuration of the plane.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32789 posts, RR: 72
Reply 61, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 7889 times:

Quoting Sligo (Reply 59):
Interesting. I wouldnt have guessed it would be "irrelvant"; maybe irrelevant to AA, but relevant to UA?

AA is stronger than UA in Hollywood traffic. Studios and VIPs are a far more important part of their core business than at UA, and AA does more to cater to it. AA has a dedicated check in operation for F passengers at LAX, where the entire process, even walking the customer through security, is personally delivered. JFK and MIA are similar. And if you transfer at DFW, there is a lounge for VIP clients only.



a.
User currently offlineCentre From Canada, joined Mar 2010, 490 posts, RR: 0
Reply 62, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 7794 times:

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 6):
Delta has been enhancing lax and sfo transcons from jfk for 20 years.

They are just bringing back most of what they took out from the travelling public, in terms of service...How is this a continuous enhancement over 20 years?
Most of what carriers have been doing in the last 10-15 years is cutting the onboard service, and turning the flying experience as no more than taking a trip from A-B, if you want more than that, you have to shed more top dollar to get what used to be part of the "ordinary". Up to the point where they legacies are no different than LCCs.



I have cut 4 times, and it's still short.
User currently offlineLDVAviation From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 1069 posts, RR: 4
Reply 63, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 7737 times:

Quoting EricR (Reply 53):
So now you are filling an extremely costly class of service (F class) with upgrades. This is not the most efficient way to run an airline.

Not exactly. The upgrades are not going to passengers on cheap fares; they are going to HVC's on J class fares and the seats opening up in business are also being sold at least at J-class fares. And, that is only if you can't sell the first class seat for a first class fare. Therein lies the flexibility. You could have higher demand for walk-up J-class fares than F class on any given day and you can meet that demand with upgrades only to your best customers who have already paid a J-Class fare to be in business class.

Quoting EricR (Reply 53):
I am not a fan of one airline or another, but DL has found the correct revenue/cost mix by offering a sold J class and higher capacity planes than AA/UA have by offering a lower capacity premium product in hopes that they can sell (not upgrade) a decent number of F & J seats.

The numbers are on AA/UA's side, not Delta's


User currently offlinebobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1725 posts, RR: 1
Reply 64, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 7117 times:

Quoting EricR (Reply 53):
So now you are filling an extremely costly class of service (F class) with upgrades. This is not the most efficient way to run an airline.

Outside of premium markets, that is what F class is for. No one buys an F class ticket on say ATL-BOS. JFK-LAX is one of the only markets with true F class demand.


User currently offlineRayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 8018 posts, RR: 5
Reply 65, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 7082 times:

It'll be very interesting to see if the new DL product enhancements on the JFK-LAX route--perhaps the busiest route for high-value passengers working in the entertainment and financial industries in the USA--will be able to fully compete against AA's well-established operations and UA's p.s. operations on this route.

User currently offlinePROSA From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5644 posts, RR: 4
Reply 66, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 7060 times:

I firmly believe JFK-LAX and SFO are the most important doemstic routes. Delta is right to invest in those routes

Wouldn't ATL - LAX/SFO be much more important transcon routes for DL (assuming they are considered transcon)?



"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
User currently offlinequestions From Australia, joined Sep 2011, 782 posts, RR: 1
Reply 67, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 6989 times:

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 65):
on the JFK-LAX route--perhaps the busiest route for high-value passengers working in the entertainment and financial industries in the USA

With JFK-LAX/SFO such an important US transom route and JFK-LHR such an important TATL route, is there now a VS effect given DL's 49% ownership that will make DL more competitive against AA and UA?

Quoting PROSA (Reply 66):
Wouldn't ATL - LAX/SFO be much more important transcon routes for DL (assuming they are considered transcon)?

ATL simply does not have the high value premium customers that JFK-LAX/SFO does.


User currently offlinebobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1725 posts, RR: 1
Reply 68, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 6977 times:

Quoting questions (Reply 67):
With JFK-LAX/SFO such an important US transom route and JFK-LHR such an important TATL route, is there now a VS effect given DL's 49% ownership that will make DL more competitive against AA and UA?

If there are corporations that do business in LAX/SFO and LHR sure. It helps DL.


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16872 posts, RR: 51
Reply 69, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 6960 times:

This Summer UA will have 20 daily nonstops to LAX from EWR/JFK, and 16 daily EWR/JFK-SFO.


Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlinebrilondon From Canada, joined Aug 2005, 4229 posts, RR: 1
Reply 70, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 6934 times:

What ever happened to that low price initiative that DL was reported to be starting some time this year for the budget minded traveler?


Rush for ever; Yankees all the way!!
User currently offlinequestions From Australia, joined Sep 2011, 782 posts, RR: 1
Reply 71, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 6877 times:

Quoting brilondon (Reply 70):
What ever happened to that low price initiative that DL was reported to be starting some time this year for the budget minded traveler?

Was this related to the E class fares -- non-changeable, no pre-assigned seating, etc?


User currently offlinecokepopper From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1184 posts, RR: 9
Reply 72, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 6339 times:

Add Westin's Heavenly Beds to the mix.
"Delta Air Lines, in the latest move, plans to announce on Tuesday that a partnership with Westin Hotels and Resorts will give business-class passengers on international and transcontinental flights “Westin Heavenly In-Flight Bedding,” starting this summer."


http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/26/bu...menities.html?pagewanted=all&_r=2&


User currently offlineFoxBravo From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2998 posts, RR: 4
Reply 73, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 6240 times:

Quoting cokepopper (Reply 72):
Add Westin's Heavenly Beds to the mix.

Press release here: http://finance.yahoo.com/news/delta-...-lines-offer-westin-145700144.html

The bedding sounds nice, but to me the biggest improvement is the "Express Meal" on flights leaving after 9pm and flights to LHR, and eventually on transcons. One reason I prefer BA transatlantic is that I can eat dinner in the lounge and maximize my sleep time on a fairly short flight. I hate it when I get on a late flight and they keep the cabin lights on and clatter around for 2 hours while they serve a leisurely meal. So this is a step in the right direction.



Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
User currently offlineLDVAviation From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 1069 posts, RR: 4
Reply 74, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 6087 times:

Quoting cokepopper (Reply 72):
Add Westin's Heavenly Beds to the mix.
"Delta Air Lines, in the latest move, plans to announce on Tuesday that a partnership with Westin Hotels and Resorts will give business-class passengers on international and transcontinental flights “Westin Heavenly In-Flight Bedding,” starting this summer."

Didn't United have a product tie-in with Westin at one point as well? After the hype, it didn't last long.


User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20640 posts, RR: 62
Reply 75, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 6088 times:

Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 74):
Didn't United have a product tie-in with Westin at one point as well?

Yes, back in 2008. Not only blankets and pillows onboard p.s. flights, but there was also the Westin Renewal Lounges inside some Red Carpet Clubs.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16872 posts, RR: 51
Reply 76, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 5991 times:

Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 74):
Didn't United have a product tie-in with Westin at one point as well? After the hype, it didn't last long.

Yup,

Quote:
Westin Partners with United Airlines to Send Heavenly Beds Into the Skies (and Airports)
Quote:
Westin Hotels & Resorts and United Airlines Team Up to Offer a Heavenly Experience in the Sky
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-relea...xperience-in-the-sky-57021537.html

And..

Quote:
United and Westin Open New Lounges
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/17/travel/17COMwestin.html



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlinecv880 From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 1132 posts, RR: 2
Reply 77, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 5910 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 75):
Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 74):
Didn't United have a product tie-in with Westin at one point as well?

Yes, back in 2008. Not only blankets and pillows onboard p.s. flights, but there was also the Westin Renewal Lounges inside some Red Carpet Clubs.

UAL used to OWN Westin (Western Int'l Hotels) before it was acquired by Starwood.

[Edited 2013-02-26 09:54:52]

User currently offlineLDVAviation From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 1069 posts, RR: 4
Reply 78, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 5837 times:

Quoting cv880 (Reply 77):
UAL used to OWN Westin (Western Int'l Hotels) before it was acquired by Starwood.

UAL technically never owned Westin Hotels. Allegis did. Allegis was the holding company that owned both UAL and Westin Hotels. That was years before there was anything like a "heavenly bed".


User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20640 posts, RR: 62
Reply 79, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 5816 times:

Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 78):
UAL technically never owned Westin Hotels.

UAL acquired Western International Hotels in 1970. Its name was changed to Westin in 1980, then amalgamated into Allegis in 1987, but sold off to a Japanese company the following year.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 80, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 5563 times:

Quoting questions (Reply 67):
ATL simply does not have the high value premium customers that JFK-LAX/SFO does.

That's not really the reason. Looking at all the major carriers, who else but AA on MIA-LAX offers C on a "hub to LAX-SFO" run. As far as I know, P.S. is only on JFK-LAX/SFO. The premium passengers are there. Trust me. There's just not as much hype because it's essentially a hub-spoke route. There's nothing "sexy" about ATL-LAX and there isn't near as much competition. On any given ATL-LAX run there may be as many as 40-50 FFs standing by for an upgrade. On DL1655 this morning there were about 12 diamond medallions and 23! platinum medallions trying to get an upgrade. That's nothing to sneeze about and that's not counting those that paid for a seat up front or got the upgrade a day or two before departure.

And believe it or not, ATL-MSP/MSP-ATL sees the HIGHEST number of HVC in the entire domestic network on any given route pair. Yes, even more that LAX/SFO-JFK, LAX-ATL, SFO-ATL etc. Not talking the local market just bodies in the seat on that segment. It's so bad that positive space F booking is not allowed for anyone. Even directors and officers.

[Edited 2013-02-26 16:40:50]


What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlinetommy767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6584 posts, RR: 8
Reply 81, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 5519 times:

I flew DL in J on LAX-JFK in 11/09 right after they redid the transcon service. It was one of the best flights I have been on. I can't remember what the appetizer was (not nearly as grand as they are now) but the main course was a very nice filet complete with sundae and cookie service. Also had AVOD, huge blankets, pillows, and noise cancelling headphones as well. This was back when I was a silver on a comp upgrade.

Of course these offerings should make UA step in up on PS. While the product is good, these new offerings within itself will take it ahead of UA and arguably AA. Although AA typically does first class right so it's a toss up.

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 80):
And believe it or not, ATL-MSP/MSP-ATL sees the HIGHEST number of HVC in the entire domestic network on any given route pair.

Amen. There is a reason why MSP-LAX is multiple 763s a day -- like ATL.



"Folks that's the news and I'm outta here!" -- Dennis Miller
User currently offlineAA94 From United States of America, joined Aug 2011, 600 posts, RR: 2
Reply 82, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 5277 times:

Quoting klkla (Reply 54):
I have. You can put lipstick on a pig but it's still a pig. The food in first was about on par with DL for this route while looking back at business what they got was clearly not as good as DL.

... and you can try and pretend away the fact that you're hating on AA, but we all still know you're hating on AA.

AA gets the corporate contracts and HVCs on this route because of dedicated F service. There's really no other way to put it more clearly.

Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 63):
The upgrades are not going to passengers on cheap fares; they are going to HVC's on J class fares and the seats opening up in business are also being sold at least at J-class fares. And, that is only if you can't sell the first class seat for a first class fare. Therein lies the flexibility. You could have higher demand for walk-up J-class fares than F class on any given day and you can meet that demand with upgrades only to your best customers who have already paid a J-Class fare to be in business class.

  

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 64):
Outside of premium markets, that is what F class is for. No one buys an F class ticket on say ATL-BOS. JFK-LAX is one of the only markets with true F class demand.

  



Choose a challenge over competence / Eleanor Roosevelt
User currently offlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10431 posts, RR: 14
Reply 83, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 5206 times:

Quoting AA94 (Reply 82):
... and you can try and pretend away the fact that you're hating on AA, but we all still know you're hating on AA.

And you agreeing, mostly, with those that are clearly biased against DL (don't be surprised....we can see it) doesn't mean that most of us can't see that you're biased against them, also. There is a pattern, here.  



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlinequestions From Australia, joined Sep 2011, 782 posts, RR: 1
Reply 84, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 5172 times:

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 80):
And believe it or not, ATL-MSP/MSP-ATL sees the HIGHEST number of HVC in the entire domestic network on any given route pair. Yes, even more that LAX/SFO-JFK, LAX-ATL, SFO-ATL etc. Not talking the local market

That's interesting. I would have thought JFK-LAX/SFO and LGA/JFK-South Florida would have a lot of HVCs. If it's not local market, then what do we know about who these customers are? Are they J customers coming from or connecting to International flights?


User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 85, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 5156 times:

Quoting questions (Reply 84):
That's interesting. I would have thought JFK-LAX/SFO and LGA/JFK-South Florida would have a lot of HVCs. If it's not local market, then what do we know about who these customers are? Are they J customers coming from or connecting to International flights?

A million combinations I guess. Whether they're doing MOT-MSP-ATL-JAN or YVR-MSP-ATL or just MSP-ATL; The ATL-MSP/MSP-ATL segment sees the highest concentration of HVCs for Delta in their domestic system.

It's funny because there was a time when Delta was running nothing more than CR7s and MD88s to MSP prior to the merger. DTW was even worse. Quite a few CR2s heading up there.



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlinequestions From Australia, joined Sep 2011, 782 posts, RR: 1
Reply 86, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 5140 times:

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 85):
The ATL-MSP/MSP-ATL segment sees the highest concentration of HVCs for Delta in their domestic system.

And by HVCs do you mean full fare paying F passengers... or elite Medallion passengers?


User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2924 posts, RR: 6
Reply 87, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 5122 times:

Quoting questions (Reply 86):
And by HVCs do you mean full fare paying F passengers... or elite Medallion passengers?

My question too. Most certainly there is some full fare premium passengers, but between two hubs (applicable to any airline) you'll see a significant amount of elites trying to get upgraded on discounted fares. I find it hard to believe that there is more premium traffic ATLMSP than LAXJFK, SFOJFK.

[Edited 2013-02-26 21:55:45]

User currently offlinedavescj From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 2307 posts, RR: 0
Reply 88, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 4912 times:

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 87):
I find it hard to believe that there is more premium traffic ATLMSP

I find this difficult to believe if only because I usually get upgraded on this route as a PM on a cheap fare.

Dave



Can I have a mojito on this flight?
User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 89, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 4821 times:

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 87):
My question too. Most certainly there is some full fare premium passengers, but between two hubs (applicable to any airline) you'll see a significant amount of elites trying to get upgraded on discounted fares. I find it hard to believe that there is more premium traffic ATLMSP than LAXJFK, SFOJFK.
Quoting davescj (Reply 88):
I find this difficult to believe if only because I usually get upgraded on this route as a PM on a cheap fare.

Funny how this site works where the whole background or original meaning of a responce can change by simple wording. I never mentioned anything about "full fare premium passengers".

The poster said..

Quoting questions (Reply 67):
ATL simply does not have the high value premium customers that JFK-LAX/SFO does.

and that's simply not true. Here is the true answer..

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 65):
JFK-LAX route--perhaps the busiest route for high-value passengers working in the entertainment and financial industries in the USA

Like I originally said. There's nothing "sexy" about ATL-LAX or ORD-LAX for that matter. Competition is everything.

Now,

Quoting questions (Reply 86):
And by HVCs do you mean full fare paying F passengers... or elite Medallion passengers?

I'm talking about high tier elites. PMs, DMs. I don't know where this full fare thing came from. I was just stating a well known fact from within (whether you guys believe it or not) that ATL-MSP/MSP-ATL sees the most HVCs system-wide(domestic).

Maybe I should ask, what is your definition of a "premium customer"



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlinedavescj From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 2307 posts, RR: 0
Reply 90, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 4802 times:

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 89):
Maybe I should ask, what is your definition of a "premium customer"

This is a good point. What is "premium"?

I would separate it into two categories:

DM/PM - the frequent traveler

High fare bucket - (purchased M, B, Y, F fare buckets), corporate contracts.

I would consider the later to be "premium." I make PM, but usually on a majority of LUT fares, which is simply not the fare buckets that are the real money makers.

Dave



Can I have a mojito on this flight?
User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2924 posts, RR: 6
Reply 91, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 4733 times:

Thanks for the clarification.

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 89):
Maybe I should ask, what is your definition of a "premium customer"

An elite flyer or one who pays an F or C fare.


User currently offlinequestions From Australia, joined Sep 2011, 782 posts, RR: 1
Reply 92, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 4712 times:

So... MSP-ATL-MSP is elite heavy. I was just curious how Delta defines HVC, if they do.

It seems we've already established that JFK-LAX/SFO is one of the few US domestic routes on which a high number of passengers actually pay for First/Business class.

Back to the topic...


User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 93, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 4721 times:

Quoting davescj (Reply 90):
I would consider the later to be "premium." I make PM, but usually on a majority of LUT fares, which is simply not the fare buckets that are the real money makers.

Don't worry Dave, Delta still considers you to be a premium customer   . You have the ability to get comped J on a sector such as ATL-DXB. You don't pay for bags. Heck, you get 3 bags for free now. You can standby for an earlier flight if you wish and not have to pay and even be cleared before an passenger who missed a flight due to wx or mtc. You even get a cool yellow tag on your bag! LOL

Seriously, don't sell yourself so short.



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlinerwy04lga From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 3176 posts, RR: 8
Reply 94, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 4500 times:

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 93):
You have the ability to get comped J on a sector such as ATL-DXB.

I'm not sure that HVC's get upgraded on international flights. I heard that they only get that perq on domestic flights.



Just accept that some days, you're the pigeon, and other days the statue
User currently offlinedavescj From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 2307 posts, RR: 0
Reply 95, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 4393 times:

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 94):
I'm not sure that HVC's get upgraded on international flights.

The upgrade comes only if Y is oversold. NW had "phantom" upgrades (as I understand it, the 5 top elites would get J if space was available). DL does not comp J unless Y is oversold for BE product cabins.

Dave



Can I have a mojito on this flight?
User currently offlineJano From Slovakia, joined Jan 2004, 827 posts, RR: 4
Reply 96, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 4334 times:

Quoting davescj (Reply 95):
NW had "phantom" upgrades (as I understand it, the 5 top elites would get J if space was available)

Really? That might explain my experience. A few years back, between 2003 and 2005, I got 3 TATL upgrades that made no sense to this at that time silver elite. When boarding the airplane my BP was scanned, the machine beeped, I got a new BP with an upgrade. Yet, in flight when I checked the economy cabin, it was definitely not full.



The Widget Air Line :)
User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 97, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 4137 times:

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 94):
I'm not sure that HVC's get upgraded on international flights. I heard that they only get that perq on domestic flights.
Quoting davescj (Reply 95):
The upgrade comes only if Y is oversold. NW had "phantom" upgrades (as I understand it, the 5 top elites would get J if space was available). DL does not comp J unless Y is oversold for BE product cabins.

I'm talking about using a system-wide upgrade which is only available to PMs and DMs. I don't know how the proram works or how many they get a calender year but they are available to them to be used on any route; domestic and international. You don't see them too often but there is a standby code for it.



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlineDeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9425 posts, RR: 14
Reply 98, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 4080 times:

Quoting rwy04lga (Reply 94):
I'm not sure that HVC's get upgraded on international flights.

They don't. BE is going to go to us before HVCs most of the time.

funny how this thread became DL/AA brought on by the typical AA fan boys.  



yep.
User currently offlinealitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4750 posts, RR: 44
Reply 99, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 4059 times:

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 98):
They don't. BE is going to go to us before HVCs most of the time.

Which is unfortunate considering the amount some of us HVCs give to Delta an a annual basis. One of my biggest gripes with DL is their international upgrade program.

Nonrevs should fill the front only after HVCs have had an op to buy-up or SWU/Miles up.



Some see lines, others see between the lines.
User currently offlinedavescj From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 2307 posts, RR: 0
Reply 100, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 3984 times:

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 97):
I'm talking about using a system-wide upgrade which is only available to PMs and DMs. I don't know how the proram works or how many they get a calender year but they are available to them to be used on any route; domestic and international. You don't see them too often but there is a standby code for it.

As a PM or DM you get a set number a year, plus you can get them as your "bonus" gift. However, they are only good for very high Y fare buckets (M, B, Y). So in that sense, they aren't that great.

Quoting alitalia744 (Reply 99):
Nonrevs should fill the front only after HVCs have had an op to buy-up or SWU/Miles up.

I totally agree. Treat them as oversold Y and bump up the paying customers.

Dave



Can I have a mojito on this flight?
User currently offlinealitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4750 posts, RR: 44
Reply 101, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 3956 times:

Quoting davescj (Reply 100):
As a PM or DM you get a set number a year, plus you can get them as your "bonus" gift. However, they are only good for very high Y fare buckets (M, B, Y). So in that sense, they aren't that great.


Fares at which REV MGT often prices higher than promotional OAL (and even DL) business fares.

Unfortunately the best use of the SWU was taken away - the "O" upgrade from W on AF...Better intl J service than DL (at least IMHO).



Some see lines, others see between the lines.
User currently offlinemplsjefe From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 107 posts, RR: 0
Reply 102, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 4002 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting davescj (Reply 100):
As a PM or DM you get a set number a year, plus you can get them as your "bonus" gift. However, they are only good for very high Y fare buckets (M, B, Y). So in that sense, they aren't that great.

As a PL medallion for the last 3 years, I've learned the hard way that the 'upgrade' certificates on DL are basically worthless: better to take the miles. The many forums in regards to medallion benefits that are related to this issue on FlyerTalk agree with this assessment. I was a slow learner, unfortunately. Live and learn.


User currently offlineOA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5276 posts, RR: 24
Reply 103, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 3981 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 28):
UA has the highest average fares in the market, followed by AA.

Then VX, then B6 and last place, DL, despite having an F cabin while B6 does not.

This is not true, and has not been true for some time. People have posted the numbers on numerous occasions indicating that DL is no longer trailing B6. Funny, but for someone who claims to only post facts and to have access to MIDT data, you should already know that. Especially since you're so quick to claim that others are "misusing" data. Unless, of course, the data you claim to have access to is horribly outdated...

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 33):
I realize you really, really want AA service to degrade to US levels, but there are no signs of that happening.

Oh lord, let's leave aside the dramatics.  
Quoting jetlanta (Reply 36):
I'd also mention that Delta has, by far, the largest ratio of economy versus premium seats in the market compared to AA and UA. Its average fare SHOULD be lower.

Precisely, plus AA and UA have a true 3 class product on the route while DL does not. I'd be surprised if they didn't have better average fares than DL on this route.

Quoting jetlanta (Reply 36):
I don't expect that Delta is going to match AA in this market in the near term, but your constant characterization of Delta as a hapless wannabe in this market is not only tired, its inaccurate.

Tired, inaccurate, and apparently based upon old data if the above claim that DL lags B6 is anything to go by. I fully agree with you here, the characterization is ridiculously old, and incredibly short-sighted. It's funny how he is quick to point out how strong AA is at LAX, or how much higher their average fare is in the JFK-LAX market (as though that's the be all, end all), but you so rarely hear about how strong AA is relative to UA at ORD and how much of a premium AA gets there. Wonder why that is.  
Quoting klkla (Reply 37):
I don't really, really want anything. I'm just being realistic. A lot of people on here until recently said United's yields were so amazing with their three class product on this route and yet we see where that's going. I think AA is going to go the same route (and that doesn't mean they can't have a great two class product if they really try).

Precisely.

Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 63):
The numbers are on AA/UA's side, not Delta's

And the numbers are just one part of the equation. They don't actually tell us who is profitable on this route, or better yet, who is losing the least amount of money. Average fare data is but one part of the equation, not the be all end all of it. Besides, as I pointed out above, I'd be shocked if AA and UA weren't garnering better average fares than DL given their 3-class products and their historical advantage in the market. That should be obvious to anyone with even the slightest knowledge of the market. This ridiculous DL is an also-ran in the LAX-JFK market that resurfaces every few months is petty, childish, and simply untrue.



Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
User currently offlineDeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9425 posts, RR: 14
Reply 104, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 3891 times:

Quoting alitalia744 (Reply 99):
Which is unfortunate considering the amount some of us HVCs give to Delta an a annual basis.

..... not to get to into it, but If they want to say drop the health care cost employees are responsible for by ~15%, add 3 weeks of vacation and a week of PPT, 2000 wage levels plus inflation plus a cost of living increase and a rise raise(+/-5%), the old pension plan, and go back to pre-BK outsourcing levels and put all the cost on the PAX (easily 3-5B) Then maybe we can talk.
(note, not complaining at all about pay/bens...just saying, The employees have done a ton for the HVCs. With out them giving what they gave you would have very few airlines left(thus much higher fares) or a bunch of airlines with higher fares. Instead of trying to find the cheapest way possible to get into BE how about the HVCs, for once, actually pay for the service they want?)

not trying to get into a pissing match, I'm just saying think abut it from the other side of the fence....

Quoting OA412 (Reply 103):
Precisely, plus AA and UA have a true 3 class product on the route while DL does not. I'd be surprised if they didn't have better average fares than DL on this route.

UA/AA has a to more F/C class on the route than Delta....When Delta tops them in AVG fare then UA/AA are in deeeeeeeep sh*t. The only carrier that it is kind of shocking to have higher AVG fare is VX...and even then, they are going to have a smaller plane and thus higher CASM(but should have higher fares). UA/AA should have the higher numbers, but its just one more thing for those way to obsessed with AA to brag about.



yep.
User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 105, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 3831 times:

Quoting davescj (Reply 100):

Okay thanks. Like I admitted, I wasn't sure how the program actually worked I just knew it was there and that's about the only way to get comped J (other than miles) on long haul international and US-Hawaii (of course you can also pay for the standby upgrade like a regular passenger in the case of Hawaiian flights).



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlinebobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1725 posts, RR: 1
Reply 106, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 3790 times:

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 104):

I am not sure what you're saying in your post since it is hard to read but I don't think DL has a higher avg rev/pax than AA or UA. I think UA us now the highest.


User currently offlineAA94 From United States of America, joined Aug 2011, 600 posts, RR: 2
Reply 107, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 3794 times:

Quoting mayor (Reply 83):
And you agreeing, mostly, with those that are clearly biased against DL (don't be surprised....we can see it) doesn't mean that most of us can't see that you're biased against them, also. There is a pattern, here.  

Try again. Having an opinion doesn't mean I'm biased.



Choose a challenge over competence / Eleanor Roosevelt
User currently offlinealitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4750 posts, RR: 44
Reply 108, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 3779 times:

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 104):
..... not to get to into it, but If they want to say drop the health care cost employees are responsible for by ~15%, add 3 weeks of vacation and a week of PPT, 2000 wage levels plus inflation plus a cost of living increase and a rise raise(+/-5%), the old pension plan, and go back to pre-BK outsourcing levels and put all the cost on the PAX (easily 3-5B) Then maybe we can talk.
(note, not complaining at all about pay/bens...just saying, The employees have done a ton for the HVCs. With out them giving what they gave you would have very few airlines left(thus much higher fares) or a bunch of airlines with higher fares. Instead of trying to find the cheapest way possible to get into BE how about the HVCs, for once, actually pay for the service they want?)

not trying to get into a pissing match, I'm just saying think abut it from the other side of the fence....

But you did get into a pissing match. How about you think about it from the perspective of 2013. The industry I work in is just as fickle, cyclical and reliant on the economy as the airlines. My job is replaceable any day of the week as is yours. I don't have a pension. I pay healthcare and am not guaranteed a yearly raise nor is my COLA adjusted annualy and I live in cities that are exponentially more expensive from a COL perspective than Hapeville. Expectation of a pension in 2013? Give me a break. This is the new reality adapt or move on to something you think will actually give the benefits you believe you are entitled to.

Employees have done a ton for HVCs but to be clear, that is their job. Their job is to deliver a safe, reliable airline that customers enjoy flying. Without customers, your airline doesn't exist. Without clients, my industry doesn't exist. I always remember that and it would be wise for you too. And also remember to be careful how you judge. Not all Diamond's or Plat's are created equal. Some of us actually only buy M/B/Y/A/P/J/F/I/D/S/Z fares. You know, the revenue accretive, premium fares where the cost to transport us is significantly less than the cost we pay to get the service we pay for. Some have the type of CVS scores that makes Delta want to keep their business.

You would be wise to understand that, instead of posting constantly about the entitlement you believe Delta owes you. And from the sound of it, you believe the customer (or at least this HVC) owes you as well.



Some see lines, others see between the lines.
User currently offlineBDL757 From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 152 posts, RR: 0
Reply 109, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 3716 times:

Regardless of who has first class, gets the highest fares or has the highest load factors; it's nice to see some improvement in the transcon experience and especially nice are improvements to the economy experience.

User currently offlineDeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9425 posts, RR: 14
Reply 110, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 3725 times:

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 106):
I am not sure what you're saying in your post since it is hard to read but I don't think DL has a higher avg rev/pax than AA or UA. I think UA us now the highest.

Yeah not what I said. I'm saying UA/AA should have higher avg fare then DL. Both have much more F/C seats than DL.

Quoting alitalia744 (Reply 108):
Employees have done a ton for HVCs but to be clear, that is their job. Their job is to deliver a safe, reliable airline that customers enjoy flying

....hmmm I don't recall the employees should take 50% cuts for the customer. I would much rather see 50% increases in ticket prices. I'm not saying they shouldn't do their job....I understand what employees are for....

Quoting alitalia744 (Reply 108):
Without customers, your airline doesn't exist.

With out customers/employees the airline doesn't exist. This isn't chicken or the egg. Like it or not, you need employees just as much as employees need you.

Quoting alitalia744 (Reply 108):
Some of us actually only buy M/B/Y/A/P/J/F/I/D/S/Z fares. You know, the revenue accretive, premium fares where the cost to transport us is significantly less than the cost we pay to get the service we pay for

And thats nice, but even if you paid for the highest bucket F fare every single time you fly, your still going to be out numbered by the people who pay the smallest amount they can. I want fares to cover cost, no extra fees, not having to depend on TechOps to add nearly 1 Billion to keep the lights on. That money should be gravy on top of solid profit.

Quoting alitalia744 (Reply 108):
And from the sound of it, you believe the customer (or at least this HVC) owes you as well.

No. I just want the customer to A) shut up, and deal with what they get or B) get this great amazing service, get all the upgrades, etc etc....but pay for it.

When a CEO is about to do back flips because 85% of the airline fuel cost is covered by ticket prices....its a problem. A big one. Who do you think picks up the tab for that kind of stuff? Then you want to take even more for them?


Quoting alitalia744 (Reply 108):
How about you think about it from the perspective of 2013.

How about we do look at it that way. You expect to be treated like a king as a PAX....but don't expect to pay the real price for it. Remember, all that money Delta has been making? If you take away the fees and other rev. (ie TechOps) Delta is just above water or in the red. That means passengers are still not paying for a ticket. Delta is trying to find ways to keep the lights on without putting the cost on service it provides. So now the company is having to go outside of the box to find ways to cover cost. You think Richard woke up one day and said "man, I'd like to get into the fuel business"?

Quoting alitalia744 (Reply 108):
But you did get into a pissing match.

Not at all, All I'm saying is look at it from the other side. Calm down.  
Quoting alitalia744 (Reply 108):
I live in cities that are exponentially more expensive from a COL perspective than Hapeville.

whoa... lets calm the hapeville stuff down.  
Quoting alitalia744 (Reply 108):
This is the new reality adapt or move on to something you think will actually give the benefits you believe you are entitled to.

did you miss the part that said I'm not complaining? Vacation and outsourcing are a much bigger target for me(Meh Id rather hand my own retirement than the company....wouldn't mind them putting more in, but i'll handle the management of it) I am just saying that if we are doing a wish list, I don't think you should expect to take one of the few things that separates Delta from the others(and helps makes Delta what it is) with out giving the employees something back. So If your going to make me pay for C class so you can upgrade for free then I expect to be compensated by the company(and thus the paying PAX) to be able to afford something that is currently free. I don't think taking another cut, that could cost employees thousands of dollars depending on much they fly, because the flying public still doesn't want to pay for a ticket is a good thing at all.

anyways, sorry for going OT. Just get tired of hearing how those damn dirty evil non-revs should be in the back....or in the bag bins.      



yep.
User currently offlineklkla From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 933 posts, RR: 0
Reply 111, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3349 times:

Quoting mplsjefe (Reply 102):
As a PL medallion for the last 3 years, I've learned the hard way that the 'upgrade' certificates on DL are basically worthless: better to take the miles. The many forums in regards to medallion benefits that are related to this issue on FlyerTalk agree with this assessment. I was a slow learner, unfortunately. Live and learn.

I think that's why they offer options now because what is good for one person isn't for someone else. I know I use all my upgrades certificates every year. They never go to waste. On the LAX-JFK route they're a particularly good value because you can generally use them on a $450-$500 fare. Although you will generally be waitlisted until an hour or so before the flight you clear before other medallions that are trying to upgrade without a certificate.


User currently offlinemplsjefe From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 107 posts, RR: 0
Reply 112, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 3333 times:
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Quoting klkla (Reply 111):
I think that's why they offer options now because what is good for one person isn't for someone else. I know I use all my upgrades certificates every year. They never go to waste. On the LAX-JFK route they're a particularly good value because you can generally use them on a $450-$500 fare. Although you will generally be waitlisted until an hour or so before the flight you clear before other medallions that are trying to upgrade without a certificate.

I guess I should have clarified, sorry. I only have ever tried to use them on trans-Atlantic or Pacific flights on DL and AF and had dreadful luck with availability and cost.


User currently offlinetoobz From Finland, joined Jan 2010, 785 posts, RR: 0
Reply 113, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 3243 times:

well...not that it really matters to paying HVCs...but DL has very good flight benefits for their employees. Actually the best in the industry. Hands down. That's why you hear a lot of times that DL has the best employees..flight crew etc. They treat their employees very well. And it shows.

User currently offlinerwy04lga From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 3176 posts, RR: 8
Reply 114, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 3242 times:

Quoting toobz (Reply 113):
DL has very good flight benefits for their employees. Actually the best in the industry. Hands down. That's why you hear a lot of times that DL has the best employees..flight crew etc. They treat their employees very well. And it shows.

There's a reason why Delta's employees bought 'Spirit of Delta' back in the 80s. It's the same reason why the IAM was unsuccesful a couple of years ago.



Just accept that some days, you're the pigeon, and other days the statue
User currently offlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10431 posts, RR: 14
Reply 115, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 3058 times:

Quoting AA94 (Reply 107):
Try again. Having an opinion doesn't mean I'm biased.

Every post you've put on this thread, shows that you are.....hell, even your screen name shows it. I can look at these threads and, even if I couldn't see the screen names, I would know what the content of the posts were and who wrote them.

Quoting alitalia744 (Reply 108):
You would be wise to understand that, instead of posting constantly about the entitlement you believe Delta owes you. And from the sound of it, you believe the customer (or at least this HVC) owes you as well.

I think what he is saying is that there is no reason for the customers to look upon their relationship with the employees as a master/slave relationship, but you know that there are plenty of customers that do, just that, everyday.



Happy, fulfilled employees work better and treat the customers better than those that are not.



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlinelaca773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 4018 posts, RR: 2
Reply 116, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2932 times:
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Hats off to DL for enhancing their transcon products! They are committed to the market and are investing in it accordingly.
Their J cabin offers a markedly better service than UA or AA, imo. They have obviously invested in improving their soft product. It shows from many of the reviews and those I've known who have taken their service, even in the main cabin.
From what I know, it's very difficult to get an upgrade at all on LAX/SFO-JFK no matter what status someone holds. People are paying for these seats.

UA had a good thing when they started their p.s. service, but that started to decline after a couple of years.
While AA may offer better catering in F on the domestic front, the catering and products offered on their transcon service are really not remarkable. To serve a Ruben Sandwich to a J class passenger for lunch on a JFK-LAX/SFO flight is laughable. UA used to serve these on their SFO-PHX, and on many other nonstops back in the late 80s, early 90s. JFK is an entirely different market and should be treated as such.

IMO, I feel DL flight crews have always offered consistently better service across the board which is important, while @ AA and UA, it's a luck of the draw on which senior crew is on, who don't care much about the service they provide (their jobs are very safe until it's time to start collecting social security).


User currently offlineGSPSPOT From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3037 posts, RR: 2
Reply 117, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 2782 times:

I have to say, DL is making it harder & harder to decide to switch to Aadvantage since we moved to Dallas...


Finally made it to an airline mecca!
User currently offlinetoobz From Finland, joined Jan 2010, 785 posts, RR: 0
Reply 118, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 2643 times:

GSP..we would love to have u onboard   don't switch

User currently offlinebaw716 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2028 posts, RR: 27
Reply 119, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 2336 times:

Quoting DL WIDGET HEAD (Reply 10):
Surprised to see Starbucks coffee in the offing. Thought DL had a thing with Seattle's Best. Nonetheless, I like the enhancements. Shouldn't be limited to NYC transcons though.

Seattle's Best is owned by Starbucks....so just up-branding the coffee product. Great coffee plus bad airplane water = airplane coffee. I don't get excited about it too much....being from Seattle and all.

baw716



David L. Lamb, fmr Area Mgr Alitalia SFO 1998-2002, fmr Regional Analyst SFO-UAL 1992-1998
User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 120, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 2295 times:

Quoting baw716 (Reply 119):
Seattle's Best is owned by Starbucks....so just up-branding the coffee product. Great coffee plus bad airplane water = airplane coffee. I don't get excited about it too much....being from Seattle and all.

Exactly.

All tastes the same to me on a/c.



What gets measured gets done.
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