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Daily Mail: 'Ryanair, You Just Screwed Everything'  
User currently offlinemusapapaya From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2004, 1054 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 19634 times:

Dear all

Not to start any wars, but I saw a piece of news on UK's daily mail.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ane-forced-jets-abort-landing.html

musapapaya


Lufthansa Group of Airlines
43 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineRussianJet From Kyrgyzstan, joined Jul 2007, 7636 posts, RR: 21
Reply 1, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 19613 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

It's a pain, and it's potentially a serious mistake. But, they're hardly the first airline to have messed up on the ground.


✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently onlineRevelation From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 11932 posts, RR: 25
Reply 2, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 18914 times:

Such dreck:

Quote:

The Aer Lingus plane – about to land on Runway 28, where FR-227 was now taxiing the wrong way – aborted its landing and flew around the airport to come in for another approach. While Aer Lingus flight EI-249 had not been cleared to land, the flight was less than a minute from touchdown when the crew was forced to abort.

In other words, another day at the office...



Inspiration, move me brightly!
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7276 posts, RR: 52
Reply 3, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 18287 times:

Wow I could only read 1/2 of the article before clicking out. Not a Ryanair fan, but wow, this article is soooooo overhyped. The Ryanair flight missed his exit and had to back taxi, causing a flight to go around. The controller was kinda unhappy. Calm down people, I don't think the world is over yet


Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 29690 posts, RR: 84
Reply 4, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 18056 times:
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If I am reading the article correctly, FR227 was not cleared by the tower to perform the 180° turn and back-track, which is why the tower had to instruct approaching traffic for that runway to go-around.

That being said, the article does not say if the tower gave specific instructions on how FR227 should have exited the runway or if they just said "expedite vacating the runway", I guess with the assumption they would do so at the end of the runway and not perform a back-track.


User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7276 posts, RR: 52
Reply 5, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 18026 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 5):
If I am reading the article correctly, FR227 was not cleared by the tower to perform the 180° turn and back-track, which is why the tower had to instruct approaching traffic for that runway to go-around.

Yeah, FR227 was wrong, but it's hardly earth shattering



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlinelonghauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 4764 posts, RR: 43
Reply 6, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 17983 times:

I guess these guys have never been to LaGuardia ... everybody gets yelled at by ATC. (Just part of its charm).


Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offlineairbuseric From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 4207 posts, RR: 51
Reply 7, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 17713 times:

Ah again, Ryanair bashing! What a load of BS.
This is daily practise around the world. These 'mistakes' happen, everywhere, and with any airline.

But in question is Ryanair, so it must be widely reported about in the newspaper.
Safety was granted all time, nothing happened, the ATC did just their work apart from the communication towards the other aircraft, which sounds quite unprofessional to me.



"The whole world steps aside for the man who knows where he is going"
User currently offlineytz From Canada, joined Jun 2009, 1832 posts, RR: 23
Reply 8, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 17462 times:

A concerning incident from a flight safety perspective (only because it's unclear if the crew and ATC were in sync). That said, the Daily Mail piece is very much over-dramatized.

User currently offlineflyingbird From Sweden, joined Mar 2005, 162 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 17294 times:

Anyone know when this incident took place?

User currently offlineabrown532 From UK - Northern Ireland, joined Feb 2008, 151 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 17224 times:

Even though it is Ryanair, the article is by The Daily Mail, so forgive me if I take any facts in this article with a dump truck full of salt...

User currently offlinecopter808 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 993 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 17059 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 5):
That being said, the article does not say if the tower gave specific instructions on how FR227 should have exited the runway or if they just said "expedite vacating the runway", I guess with the assumption they would do so at the end of the runway and not perform a back-track.

Exactly! More of an error in communications

Quoting airbuseric (Reply 8):
Ah again, Ryanair bashing! What a load of BS.

I'm not a Ryanair fan, but what did they do wrong????? The PILOT was the one who made the back taxi.


User currently offlineZkpilot From New Zealand, joined Mar 2006, 4773 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 16017 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 4):
Wow I could only read 1/2 of the article before clicking out. Not a Ryanair fan, but wow, this article is soooooo overhyped. The Ryanair flight missed his exit and had to back taxi, causing a flight to go around. The controller was kinda unhappy. Calm down people, I don't think the world is over yet

Missed his exit and instead of continuing on to the next exit (at the end of the runway) he made an unauthorised 180 degree turn and back track. That is what the issue is. Aircraft land long all the time and miss the expected exit that is not the issue.



54 types. 38 countries. 24 airlines.
User currently onlineshamrock604 From Ireland, joined Sep 2007, 4117 posts, RR: 13
Reply 13, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 15868 times:

Quoting airbuseric (Reply 8):
Safety was granted all time, nothing happened, the ATC did just their work apart from the communication towards the other aircraft, which sounds quite unprofessional to me.

Indeed, I think the ATCO could have explained the situation to the other crews without identifying the operator of the aircraft. This would have been a more professional approach.

The rest of it is the usual Daily Mail hype. A few aircraft had to conduct a second approach - hardly a reason for a full page spread.



Flown EI,FR,RE,EIR,VE,SI,TLA,BA,BE,BD,VX,MON,AF,YS,WX,KL,SK,LH,OK,OS,LX,IB,LTU,HLX,4U,SU,CO,DL,UA,AC,PR,MH,SQ,QF, EY, EK
User currently offlineCrimsonNL From Netherlands, joined Dec 2007, 1801 posts, RR: 42
Reply 14, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 14564 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
CHAT OPERATOR

I just died a little on the inside reading this article. I don't even know why I keep clicking these Daily Mail links. This "newspaper" is a good example of the dark side of the freedom of the press.

Martijn



Fly DC-Jets!
User currently offlineEagleBoy From Niue, joined Dec 2009, 1745 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 13844 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Revelation (Reply 3):
In other words, another day at the office...
Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 4):
The controller was kinda unhappy. Calm down people, I don't think the world is over yet
Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 6):
eah, FR227 was wrong, but it's hardly earth shattering

While the 180 turn questionable....well, everyone sets up for TOGA on the approach.

Quoting abrown532 (Reply 11):

Even though it is Ryanair, the article is by The Daily Mail, so forgive me if I take any facts in this article with a dump truck full of salt...
Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 4):
but wow, this article is soooooo overhyped.

Welcome to the Daily mail guys.......you should read the story of PPL holder seeing a 'gaping hole' in the door of an A380 and EK did not even divert......

Quoting CrimsonNL (Reply 18):

I just died a little on the inside reading this article. I don't even know why I keep clicking these Daily Mail links.

Love it.


User currently offlineDavecFlyer From Ireland, joined Dec 2007, 369 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 13611 times:

Quoting flyingbird (Reply 10):
Anyone know when this incident took place?

Happened at about 21:40Z on Friday 15th February last.



ei,sf,fr,amm,cc,wx,bd,ba,ok,ua,ma,ay,re,cx,qf,fj,as,ac,az,adh,fua,ib,aww,km,aa,vs,nw,skb,cli,ne,kl,sa,ek,fi,lh,sn,af,qi,
User currently offlineairbuseric From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 4207 posts, RR: 51
Reply 17, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 13117 times:

Quoting copter808 (Reply 14):
I'm not a Ryanair fan, but what did they do wrong????? The PILOT was the one who made the back taxi.

So what?!

ATC is there to recover these mistakes.
Can be done by any other airline, and is done by any other airline.
But because it is done by Ryanair, it ends up in the media again...
and because it is Ryanair, the ATC controller was mentioning it so clearly to other approaching flights? Quite unprofessional, he surely needs to receive a reprimand.



"The whole world steps aside for the man who knows where he is going"
User currently offlineEIDL From Ireland, joined Apr 2012, 367 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 12901 times:

That chart is absolutely ancient, pretty sure that nothing changed that'd affect what FR did but its showing one more runway than is operational and one less terminal...

User currently onlineshamrock604 From Ireland, joined Sep 2007, 4117 posts, RR: 13
Reply 19, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 12819 times:

Quoting EIDL (Reply 23):
That chart is absolutely ancient, pretty sure that nothing changed that'd affect what FR did but its showing one more runway than is operational and one less terminal...

Pier D isnt there either, nor Taxiway M2, or the western apron. I hope nobody is using that chart for navigation purposes!  



Flown EI,FR,RE,EIR,VE,SI,TLA,BA,BE,BD,VX,MON,AF,YS,WX,KL,SK,LH,OK,OS,LX,IB,LTU,HLX,4U,SU,CO,DL,UA,AC,PR,MH,SQ,QF, EY, EK
User currently offlinejetmech From Australia, joined Mar 2006, 2637 posts, RR: 53
Reply 20, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 13014 times:

Quoting EIDL (Reply 23):
That chart is absolutely ancient,

Fair enough. Google maps does show runway 11-29 with big, white "X's" over it, but as you say, the configuration of the taxiways at the end of runway 28 (B7,E7,E6) appears to be correct.

Regards, JetMech



JetMech split the back of his pants. He can feel the wind in his hair.
User currently offlineVS239 From Hong Kong, joined Jul 2006, 74 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 12823 times:

Another version of the chart is online at ......

http://www.iaa.ie/safe_reg/iaip/Publ...iles/EIDW/EI_AD_2_EIDW_24-1_en.pdf



Who...me??
User currently offline71Zulu From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 3049 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 12956 times:

Google Earth shows about the same as the chart and Piers and other taxiways irrelevant to this incident. So what will happen to this Captain? It seems pretty outrageous what he did, I would love to hear his reasoning. Something like this in the US you would probably looking for a job and a license, I mean to make a u-turn on your own and then taxi against landing traffic when you have two high speeds and a turn off at the end? Almost impossible to believe an airline crew would do this.


The good old days: Delta L-1011s at MSY
User currently offlineairbuseric From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 4207 posts, RR: 51
Reply 23, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 12756 times:

Quoting 71Zulu (Reply 27):
It seems pretty outrageous what he did, I would love to hear his reasoning. Something like this in the US you would probably looking for a job and a license, I mean to make a u-turn on your own and then taxi against landing traffic when you have two high speeds and a turn off at the end?

Until the runway is not cleared of the traffic (the FR B738 in question), the runway is not available to any other traffic. So what is the problem safety wise? ATC has the job to secure a safe operation, so they can order go-arounds as per procedures for such happenings.

If there was a mis-understanding, well, that can happen.
Maybe the FR flightcrew had another reason to turn 180º
We just don't know. But we cannot judge... taking away licenses or non-active from flying is a bit much right, or maybe typical the 'American way' to do things?

Like we say in Netherlands, storm in a glass of water. A minor incident happened in DUB, with no further irregularities jeopardizing safety.



"The whole world steps aside for the man who knows where he is going"
User currently offlinelonghauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 4764 posts, RR: 43
Reply 24, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 12682 times:

Quoting jetmech (Reply 22):
It does seem weird that the aircraft in question could easily have used exit B7 at the end of runway 28, but for some reason, decided to do a 180 and backtrack on the runway to exit E7! I can understand the incredulity of ATC.

The only thing I can think of, is that the aircraft may have misunderstood a statement from ATC.

ATC may have said, "exit on E7, or by E7", meaning (to ATC) that an aircraft was on final behind them and to hurry exiting. However, the aircraft may have interpreted that to mean that B7 was not available, and that E7 was the only exit or the last exit. (This happens sometimes).

That being the case therefore, the aircraft if having passed E7, would do a 180 to exit on E7.



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
25 shamrock604 : The "standard exit" at DUB for RWY28 ops is E6, which is a high speed exit. The vast majority of arrivals on that runway exit at E6. The standard phr
26 Post contains links EagleBoy : Well the statement from the ATCo was directly in response to a query from a Ryanair aircraft that had been held due to the disruption caused by a 'co
27 shamrock604 : That's the thing - you just do not do that in Dublin, as a based operator should know. It's a single runway operation, which for an airport handling
28 Post contains images L410Turbolet : It's free publicity for Ryanair not only in the press but on the airwaves as well. Win-win, is it not? I see... So here we have a Ryanair pilot doing
29 Post contains images jerseyguy : There's a perfectly good explanation to why the Ryanair plane took a 180. They only loaded enough fuel to make it via E5 as to not put anymore weight
30 Bongodog1964 : It seems quite bizarre, that some people on here have such an ingrained hate of the daily mail, that a pilot performing a 180 turn on a busy runway co
31 Speedbird128 : UMMM. Pilots have eyes and ears... Some pilots even have situational awareness knowing who is landing ahead and why they are next to *not* receive a
32 sankaps : Agree completely. It was not just a routine misunderstanding of instructions, it was a fairly serious error or lack of judgment / situational awarene
33 AndyEastMids : If that is the standard phraseology, IMHO (as a pilot) it's very poor phraseology to use, especially with aircrew not familiar with the airport and t
34 airproxx : Thanks! A least there's one person with the same question than I have. After reading the story, I just checked on my company's computer the Dublin ai
35 Boeing77W : No matter what you might think of Ryanair and their pilots, please show a scrap of respect for the professionals doing a job. Yes, questionable decis
36 jbetlach : It has been a very poor decision, based crew or not. They were listening to radio and had info about landing traffic behind them. It takes longer time
37 airproxx : Get off your high horse please! This is maybe a trouble spot, but as a professional (thanks, indeed, I AM too), I see this event as I treat those in
38 AndyEastMids : I simply do not believe that (as is being suggested above) any professional aviator would backtrack just to thwart a competitor - this isn't just comp
39 musapapaya : Ok I am not a pilot and i only started this threat when i was showed this piece of news. A few things came to my mind: 1. Will the ATC not give specif
40 eicvd : Could easily have been a STN based crew not very familiar with DUB.
41 VV701 : From the linked article: "A statement from the IAA revealed that the incident was being treated seriously. "‘The Irish Aviation Authority is invest
42 Post contains images mandala499 : What I don't get is... why did the tower ask the aircraft to exit at E5 after the 180turn? The plane wanted to exit at E7, Tower said no, and told the
43 zippyjet : Sh*t happens. And this is a prime example.
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