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WN/FL March 4, 2013 Schedule Extension Predictions  
User currently offlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1278 posts, RR: 1
Posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 12247 times:

The schedule will be extended to November 3, 2013.

WIth expanded codeshare, will we see ATL transferring?
More International flights?
There are 3 more domestic cities without WN service, MEM, PNS and RIC. What do you think?


You will either love or hate the airline industry. If you love it, it will get in your blood and it will never leave.
131 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinebobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1446 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 12209 times:

No predictions here but with the codeshare Id like to see WN begin ATL-STL on their own metal.

User currently offlinemesaflyguy From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 2461 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 12187 times:
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Maybe ATL-ISP now that the codeshare could help with connections?


\________(---)________/ :) World's most beautiful aircraft: 757-200, MD-88/90, E-190, A321
User currently offlinesdoyon From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 231 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 12138 times:

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 1):
No predictions here but with the codeshare Id like to see WN begin ATL-STL on their own metal.

To be honest, I expected this AGES ago. Especially since WN flies to 7 of their other top-10 cities from ATL (the exceptions being DAL [because of the Wright Amendment] and OAK [served through SFO I suppose]).

As for predictions, I would love to see LGA and DCA converted to all-WN; with the codeshare coming 100% online by April, I think it's only a matter of time.

I'd also like to see MHT (got to rep your hometown) get some additional Florida service back as well as a connection to either BNA or STL. I think both of these cities offer a wide range of connections that are too circuitous when routed through either BWI or MDW. One can dream, right?  


User currently offlinewnflyguy From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2011, 451 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 12129 times:

I think if you look at what they did with FL and MEM service last time.
Maybe will see some FL 717 flying added to PNS and RIC.
2 PNS-HOU, 1 PNS-MDW and 1 PNS-BWI.
2 RIC-MDW, 2 RIC-HOU maybe 1 RIC-MCO.
ADD 2 MEM-HOU or 2 MEM-DEN.
At DAY FL could ADD some 717 flying with 3 MDW flights connecting to the WN network.
Wnfg

  



my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
User currently offlinewnflyguy From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2011, 451 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 12074 times:

I think since they added back DEN-BUR service with a line of flying.
Instead of having the A/C with a long RON in DEN they could tag on DSM,DAY or ROC with another RON.
wnfg  

[Edited 2013-02-24 16:25:08]


my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
User currently offlinewnflyguy From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2011, 451 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 12023 times:

With SNA now that the code share is in place for MEX and SJD via SNA.
Maybe they could Drop the FL SFO flight add a Red eye turn to MEX.
Also I'm still hoping for the FL LAS flight being dropped and redeploy it for a ATL n/s.
wnfg 



my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
User currently offlineAllegiantFlyer From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 162 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 11998 times:

I think WN needs to wake up from this long line of keeping PHX idle....

User currently offlineChrisNH From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 4011 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 11997 times:

Quoting sdoyon (Reply 3):
I'd also like to see MHT (got to rep your hometown) get some additional Florida service back as well as a connection to either BNA or STL. I think both of these cities offer a wide range of connections that are too circuitous when routed through either BWI or MDW. One can dream, right?

Fellow MHT alum, too. The one route that would be absolutely mint: MHT-ATL. DL runs a couple MD-88s a day in the high season but none in the low season...and that's an awfully long run for an RJ. No wonder people 'flee' to Logan.

But aside from that, it has been a LONG time since WN outright added a route at MHT. The norm has been a reinstatement of routes previously suspended, and that's been it. We already lose MHT-LAS this summer, making the only 'far-west' flight MHT-DEN. It used to be MHT-PHX and MHT-LAS; now it will be neither of them.

If you're heading west out of MHT, you would like to connect in some city that is NOT at risk of snow, which is why the PHX and LAS routes were so welcome. Now, your connection choices are Midway and Denver...two cities that can be snowbound on any given day.


User currently offlinebobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1446 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 11794 times:

Quoting mesaflyguy (Reply 2):
Maybe ATL-ISP now that the codeshare could help with connections?

ISP is a dying airport

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 4):
2 PNS-HOU, 1 PNS-MDW and 1 PNS-BWI.

I think youll see PNS-STL before MDW. JAN-MDW does poorly


Im not expecting any real ATL growth.


User currently offlinemesaflyguy From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 2461 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 11647 times:
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Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 9):

I'd hardly call it a dying airport. Recently, we've had WN return it's seasonal RSW-ISP flight that wasn't here last year, US adding DCA-ISP AND upping it from 2-3 daily roundtrips fairly quickly (within a year of starting the service).

Plus, with the fairly new airport commisioner, we have high hopes for the airport, including B6 in the future and maybe some changes in service with the US/AA merger.

Granted ISP isn't what it once was, it's far from dying.



\________(---)________/ :) World's most beautiful aircraft: 757-200, MD-88/90, E-190, A321
User currently offlinephxa340 From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 832 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 11638 times:

Maybe some additions at PHX in anticipation of a US draw down ? Might be a little premature but ya never know.

User currently onlineflyiguy From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1022 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 11472 times:

[quote=wnflyguy,reply=6]With SNA now that the code share is in place for MEX and SJD via SNA.
Maybe they could Drop the FL SFO flight add a Red eye turn to MEX.

The only problem I see with that is that now there will be no FL crew to operate the MEX and SJD sectors as FL has no west coast base to pull crews from. I though the reason for the FL SFO flights was to rotate crews to the SNA INT'L flights operated by FL. With out those crews the SNA to MEX and SJD can not operate. Correct me if I am wrong?

FLY



The opinions I post are of mine and mine alone, not of the airline I work for.
User currently offlinewnflyguy From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2011, 451 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 11210 times:

Quoting flyiguy (Reply 12):

Ya that's why I think a SNA-ATL n/s would work out great.
Crew 3 or 4 days of flying rotations would cover weekly flying.
I would only run the extra SNA-MEX n/s Sunday thru Friday.
CREW 3 day line day 1 ATL-SAT-MEX-SNA day 2 SNA-MEX-SNA day 3 SNA-ATL.
CREW 4 day line day 1 ATL-SNA day 2 SNA-SJD-DEN day 3 DEN-SJD-SNA day 4 SNA-MEX-SAT-ATL.
Wnfg  



my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 6837 posts, RR: 14
Reply 14, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 11122 times:

With the code share now appearing to be functional, I think we will see pretty massive change. I expect more FL cities to lose ATL service and I think you will finally see round two of new routes from ATL on WN metal finally supported by the code share. Maybe stuff like LIT or JAN.

User currently offlinePhilly65 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 57 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 11110 times:

Southwest schedule and new route/city predictions are no longer exciting nor worthy of much commentary. The airline is a typical legacy airline with legacy costs, and the airline is transforming itself to adjust to the new reality it operates in. The good old days of Southwest being a short haul, high frequency airline are past. The integration with AirTran is nothing more than connecting the dots and seeing what sticks. However, it will be interesting to see what they do in the Caribbean/Mexico and potentially Hawaii.

User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22299 posts, RR: 20
Reply 16, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 11056 times:

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 9):
I think youll see PNS-STL before MDW. JAN-MDW does poorly

Do you think JAN-STL would do better? The problems with JAN are that it is small and that it lacks many connections to the midwest. There's some VFR, but not many business connections.

JAN-STL is shorter, but the local market is also likely to be much smaller.

Quoting Philly65 (Reply 15):
The good old days of Southwest being a short haul, high frequency airline are past.

They passed a decade or more ago. I'm not sure what's different now versus ten years ago other than that a few of the not very useful, super-short routes (MCO-RSW, BHM-BNA) are finally gone.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineevanbu From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 376 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 10953 times:

I've given up hope for DSM. It seems WN is completely happy with 2X MDW.

User currently offlineFlytravel From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 873 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 10943 times:

Quoting mesaflyguy (Reply 10):
US adding DCA-ISP AND upping it from 2-3 daily roundtrips fairly quickly (within a year of starting the service).

I wonder if AA/US will keep ISP with the JFK hub within an hour for most that might use ISP. If it left, it would be good for WN's ISP-BWI. Pax that might have switched to ISP-DCA for DC travel, won't have that option. However, AA will likely launch GRR-DCA which will take pax from WN's GRR-BWI.

I'd say ISP-ATL could be done or maybe offered seasonally, because DL isn't at ISP, and WN would own the route, like NK on ACY-ATL and F9 now on TTN-ATL. Anyways, WN inherited an ATL crew base and wants to make ATL work. Part of that is keeping feed into ATL where possible. With WN pricing PHL-ATL at $191 lowest WGA, but PHL-ATL-JAX at $131 lowest WGA, it seems it wants to keep ATL active with connections, in the east coast or on north-south travel.


User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3635 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 10926 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 16):
I'm not sure what's different now versus ten years ago other than that a few of the not very useful, super-short routes (MCO-RSW, BHM-BNA) are finally gone.

Besides gutting a lot of the short-haul routes, I can think of at least eight ways that WN has changed compared to ten years ago.

WN has:

1) built up connecting complexes at airports like MDW and BWI as opposed to the traditional point-to-point WN focus
2) moved into airports that Herb vowed to never serve like LGA, DEN, and ATL (more on the last one next)
3) acquired FL to gain access to ATL and international markets, both of which were nevers at old WN
4) ditched the eight-flight rule by allowing smaller stations to be opened with contract ground handling as opposed to higher-cost WN employees (more on that toward the end)
5) expanded their market share in flights to Florida while gutting Florida intrastate flying, which was part organic growth and partly due to the FL acquisition
6) offered more business-traveler friendly products like Business Select fares, and charging higher fares for many business markets
7) started experimenting with smaller cities like PWM, DSM, ICT, and GRR at 2-6x/daily schedules, a change from Herb's "we're not in the small city business, we're in the leakage business" mantra, and made possible in part by ditching the eight-flight rule
8) abandoned the "passionately neutral" stance on the Wright Amendment, pushed for a repeal, and got a phased repeal

[Edited 2013-02-25 11:47:35]


I don't work for FWA, their tenants, or their ad agency. But I still love FWA.
User currently offlinebobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1446 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 10879 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 16):

All airlines have struggled flying from Chicago to Mississippi, Alabama, Louisiana and the Florida panhandle. There just isn't much traffic via air to the Midwest from these states. There is lots of road traffic down I-55 but not air. ORD is not a good hub for these states. Traffic goes via DFW or ATL mostly. UA, AA and WN have all done poorly in these places to Chicago.

I don't think PNS to STL is likely but neither is MDW.


User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3635 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 10824 times:

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 20):
All airlines have struggled flying from Chicago to Mississippi, Alabama, Louisiana and the Florida panhandle. There just isn't much traffic via air to the Midwest from these states. There is lots of road traffic down I-55 but not air.

I used to live in a Chicago suburb, and I went to high school there about a decade ago. Destin was THE place to go for spring break at my high school, and everyone drove down there for that week in March.

No one flew to VPS or PNS, and higher cost plus family traditions were often cited as reasons, even though Destin was a 14+ hour drive on I-65 each way from the suburb in question. These families would get up at 5 AM for a full-day drive there and do the same on the way back. However, they could just drive to ORD in an hour, arrive two hours before departure for parking and security, and be at VPS or PNS in about five to seven hours total (depending on if the flight is a nonstop or not).

Oh, and I never understood the appeal of Destin. My spring breaks in high school were to LHR, LAS, and CUN - the last one senior year was a college searching road trip.

[Edited 2013-02-25 12:37:41]


I don't work for FWA, their tenants, or their ad agency. But I still love FWA.
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 6837 posts, RR: 14
Reply 22, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 10734 times:

Quoting Philly65 (Reply 15):
The airline is a typical legacy airline with legacy costs, and the airline is transforming itself to adjust to the new reality it operates in.

Can't argue that...

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 16):
Quoting Philly65 (Reply 15):
The good old days of Southwest being a short haul, high frequency airline are past.

They passed a decade or more ago. I'm not sure what's different now versus ten years ago other than that a few of the not very useful, super-short routes (MCO-RSW, BHM-BNA) are finally gone

They may have started that mutation 10 years ago, but it is nearing completion now.

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 19):
Besides gutting a lot of the short-haul routes, I can think of at least eight ways that WN has changed compared to ten years ago.

Agreed. They are turning into a hubbed legacy. They are mostly there already. The Wright Amendment ending will probably be the final gasp of the old model as they retrieve airplanes to add service from their newest nationwide hub.


User currently offlinepvd757 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3406 posts, RR: 17
Reply 23, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 10692 times:

No predictions but a wish-list for PVD that includes reinstatement of LAS, PHX, or HOU. Probably unlikely at this point, but thats why they call it a wish list!

User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22299 posts, RR: 20
Reply 24, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 10693 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 22):
Agreed. They are turning into a hubbed legacy. They are mostly there already.

Which UA or DL stations resemble WN stations like MCI, AUS, SAT or BNA?



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3635 posts, RR: 2
Reply 25, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 10886 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 24):
Which UA or DL stations resemble WN stations like MCI, AUS, SAT or BNA?

For DL, CVG and MEM. For UA, CLE.

Though to be fair, the WN stations are all mainline and CVG/CLE/MEM are mostly RJs.



I don't work for FWA, their tenants, or their ad agency. But I still love FWA.
User currently offlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1278 posts, RR: 1
Reply 26, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 10823 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 25):
For DL, CVG and MEM. For UA, CLE.

Those are dying hubs, its different.



You will either love or hate the airline industry. If you love it, it will get in your blood and it will never leave.
User currently offlineWNCrew From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 1414 posts, RR: 9
Reply 27, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 10999 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 25):
Though to be fair, the WN stations are all mainline and CVG/CLE/MEM are mostly RJs.

People DO often forget that WN's thousands of flights per day are ALL mainline and WN-operated. Thanks for stating that.



ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3635 posts, RR: 2
Reply 28, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 10964 times:

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 26):
Those are dying hubs, its different.

CVG has been right-sized to profitability, and CLE has seen several new routes as of late - neither are dying at this point.

Though I think we can all agree that MEM won't be a hub for much longer.



I don't work for FWA, their tenants, or their ad agency. But I still love FWA.
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22299 posts, RR: 20
Reply 29, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 10784 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 28):
CVG has been right-sized to profitability, and CLE has seen several new routes as of late - neither are dying at this point.

Regardless, I'm not sure how a 200 flight/day operation that is predominantly RJ and heavily connecting can be compared to a 50 or 60 flight/day all mainline operation that is predominantly local.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlinewnflyguy From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2011, 451 posts, RR: 0
Reply 30, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 10781 times:

With every small schedule update from now until Dec 2015 will be the elimination of FL flying into WN.
Along with this merger at the end of 2014 will start the Small Texas cities reshuffle with new N/S markets added from DAL.
For the arm chair network planners/nerds like my self it's fun to see what stays, get's added and what gets axed.
Not all changes are happy like SNA-MDW being Axed.
But still it is fun trying to understand WN's madness behind the every shifting schedule updates.
The computer age makes this Merger fun because Friends and Nerds get to talk,speculate and guess what's coming.
I think the new WN less than 8 day rule gives WN a whole new chapter to gain market share and add new cities once forbidden under the old WN.
Example if DSM works out and turns a profit for WN it gives future cities like FAT,ANC,BIL and Hawaiian markets hope.
Now that the code share is rolling out I would like to see WN add more international flying with FL until WN's ready.
Wnfg 



my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
User currently offlineJBAirwaysFan From United States of America, joined May 2009, 907 posts, RR: 0
Reply 31, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 10739 times:

Quoting Flytravel (Reply 18):
I'd say ISP-ATL could be done or maybe offered seasonally, because DL isn't at ISP, and WN would own the route,

Who's to say DL won't jump back on it though? Their old gate is still there (and their old ticket counter still has the DL designation as of 2011). They jumped back on SWF-ATL when AirTran started it.



In Loving Memory of Casey Edward Falconer; May 16, 1992-May 9, 2012
User currently offlinemesaflyguy From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 2461 posts, RR: 4
Reply 32, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 10570 times:
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Quoting JBAirwaysFan (Reply 31):

They could, per say, but DL has shown zero interest in anything in th NYC area other than JFK and LGA, so I can't see how 1 737 a day from ATL-ISP would really interest DL.



\________(---)________/ :) World's most beautiful aircraft: 757-200, MD-88/90, E-190, A321
User currently offlineOzarkD9S From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4877 posts, RR: 22
Reply 33, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 10445 times:

I hope they'll finally integrate RIC into either WN metal or added to the codeshare. I was hoping to book FL from STL to RIC for travel in May, then transfer the A+ Rewards over to RR. The schedules sucked for me so I went with UA.

I'm probably not the only customer WN/FL have lost with this prolonged integration process, even if it's this one trip. It's obvious WN is willing to sacrifice some revenue for fewer integration headaches, and they're still profitable so hats off to them for that.

But still....my $400 went to UA. (Based on 4th quarter earnings, they needed it more anyway   )



Next Up: STL-TPA-BWI-PWM-BWI-STL
User currently offlineJONC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 125 posts, RR: 0
Reply 34, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 10373 times:

With the codeshare in place now, I think theres a decent chance there will be some changes to ATL at this point. As for other changes, I wouldnt expect much of anything. Just my two cents.

User currently offlineJBAirwaysFan From United States of America, joined May 2009, 907 posts, RR: 0
Reply 35, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 10072 times:

Quoting mesaflyguy (Reply 32):
They could, per say, but DL has shown zero interest in anything in th NYC area other than JFK and LGA, so I can't see how 1 737 a day from ATL-ISP would really interest DL.

I won't disagree. However that wasn't my point. What I meant is that WN starting a new route from ATL is at risk for the backlash from Delta. Granted DL is very focused right now with JFK and LGA also keep in mind DL did previously serve the ATL-ISP market. I believe it only took 2x ATL-SWF flights on FL to spark Delta to add 4x CRJs on the route as well. Honestly I could see this being a 717 route at some point in time.



In Loving Memory of Casey Edward Falconer; May 16, 1992-May 9, 2012
User currently offlinemesaflyguy From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 2461 posts, RR: 4
Reply 36, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 9990 times:
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Quoting JBAirwaysFan (Reply 35):

Gotcha, didn't realize you were talking about the ATL end of it.

Also, I neve realized DL had ever served ISP-ATL. I knew they served CVG-ISP



\________(---)________/ :) World's most beautiful aircraft: 757-200, MD-88/90, E-190, A321
User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 37, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 9894 times:

Quoting JBAirwaysFan (Reply 31):
They jumped back on SWF-ATL when AirTran started it.

And have since exited the market. Was 2x CR7s (1x on certain week days and on Sat) to the recent end.

Quoting JBAirwaysFan (Reply 35):
Honestly I could see this being a 717 route at some point in time.

We have to be a little realistic here. You think they're going to go from zero service to 717s? At a minimum, the route would have to be operated by a CR7 due to the 750 rule but o go from nothing to even a single daily 717 would be a leap. There are far more high frequency routes that could use the capacity.

Delta seems to be happy with their "outside the city" service to HPN. A combination of CR7s and CR9s up to 7x. If they could fly an 88 in there they would.

[Edited 2013-02-26 21:18:37]


What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlineCIDFlyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2221 posts, RR: 3
Reply 38, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 9745 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 21):

I used to live in a Chicago suburb, and I went to high school there about a decade ago. Destin was THE place to go for spring break at my high school, and everyone drove down there for that week in March.

No one flew to VPS or PNS, and higher cost plus family traditions were often cited as reasons, even though Destin was a 14+ hour drive on I-65 each way from the suburb in question. These families would get up at 5 AM for a full-day drive there and do the same on the way back. However, they could just drive to ORD in an hour, arrive two hours before departure for parking and security, and be at VPS or PNS in about five to seven hours total (depending on if the flight is a nonstop or not).

Oh, and I never understood the appeal of Destin. My spring breaks in high school were to LHR, LAS, and CUN - the last one senior year was a college searching road trip.[Edited 2013-02-25 12:37:41]


The Florida Panhandle is a beautiful area! I think the reason flights to the midwest havent been as successful here (I am currently on vacation here) is because the airports are smaller and lack low fare carriers making flights expensive. Probably also a factor is that there probably arent as many northerners tranplanted here as there are in other parts of Florida. I've been coming here since 1997 and can tell you though PNS has grown alot. Lots of midwesterners winter in this area, its not as far to go to like the Tampa, Fort Myers area is, its in the central time zone which is a plus, and it has a bit more southern flavor than peninsular Florida does, which has all but been run over by northerners and foreigners. I love all of Florida but I will have to say I do love the Panhandle, its has some of the most beautiful beaches in the state and seems to have more of a laid back pace to it. SWA seems to be doing well on STL-Panama City bringing it back for another summer season. I could see them trying STL from PNS. TWA was going to start this before the merger with AA. With PNS you get a gateway to the Northwest Florida Beaches area from Destin/Fort Walton to the Alabama Beaches of Orange Beach and Gulf Shores. You also can get some business and government traffic with the large naval base. Perhaps if the prices were right MDW could work but I would see STL before MDW. For some reason people either seem content on driving to this area or making their connections in DFW, ATL or CLT to get here. Would be nice if this region could maintain a successful link to ORD or maybe DTW. AA has had PNS-ORD off and on. UA seems to be holding in there on PNS-ORD with less than daily service but still flies it. Maybe SWA could develop more of an air travel market to this region??


User currently offlineATLgaUSA From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 143 posts, RR: 0
Reply 39, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 9742 times:

Another reason that flights to the panhandle haven't worked is that none of the towns on the panhandle are equipped to handle large numbers of tourists that don't have cars. Many families find it easier to drive than buying plane tickets for everyone in the family and having to pay for a rental car for a week.

User currently offlineJBAirwaysFan From United States of America, joined May 2009, 907 posts, RR: 0
Reply 40, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 9756 times:

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 37):
And have since exited the market. Was 2x CR7s (1x on certain week days and on Sat) to the recent end

Just recently they did. They maintained the route for 4 years after AirTran left.

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 37):
We have to be a little realistic here. You think they're going to go from zero service to 717s? At a minimum, the route would have to be operated by a CR7 due to the 750 rule but o go from nothing to even a single daily 717 would be a leap. There are far more high frequency routes that could use the capacity.

Delta seems to be happy with their "outside the city" service to HPN. A combination of CR7s and CR9s up to 7x. If they could fly an 88 in there they would.

At SOME POINT IN TIME. Meaning not right away, but if DL and WN begin to compete on this route (ISP-ATL) I would say it's a possibility. That route never saw any competition when DL was on it before.

As for HPN, they can't fit an 88 in there because of the ramp size from what I've heard. Plus they're extremely noisy and that is a noise sensitive airport.

[Edited 2013-02-27 06:47:05]


In Loving Memory of Casey Edward Falconer; May 16, 1992-May 9, 2012
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22299 posts, RR: 20
Reply 41, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 9478 times:

Quoting CIDFlyer (Reply 38):
SWA seems to be doing well on STL-Panama City bringing it back for another summer season. I could see them trying STL from PNS. TWA was going to start this before the merger with AA. With PNS you get a gateway to the Northwest Florida Beaches area from Destin/Fort Walton to the Alabama Beaches of Orange Beach and Gulf Shores. You also can get some business and government traffic with the large naval base. Perhaps if the prices were right MDW could work but I would see STL before MDW.

Having lived in both, I can assure you that Saint Louis is far more of a Destin town than Chicago is. VPS is the best airport for Destin, but as far as WN stations I think ECP is actually a bit closer than PNS. The drive from PNS isn't bad once you get down on 98, but getting there involves a fair number of city streets.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineBD338 From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 697 posts, RR: 0
Reply 42, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 9298 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 16):
BHM-BNA

my very first WN flight back in 1996. Had the seats in the middle of the aircraft that faced each other...thought that was brilliant!


I dream of more WN service in SLC....but it ain't going to happen  


User currently offlineCIDFlyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2221 posts, RR: 3
Reply 43, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 9214 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 41):
Having lived in both, I can assure you that Saint Louis is far more of a Destin town than Chicago is. VPS is the best airport for Destin, but as far as WN stations I think ECP is actually a bit closer than PNS. The drive from PNS isn't bad once you get down on 98, but getting there involves a fair number of city streets.

yeah 98 isnt too bad but can get busy. Too bad there isnt some sort of expressway from PNS to Ft Walton/Destin, 98 from Pensacola to Destin is about 40 miles of strip malls, subdivisions, fast food joints and wal-marts!


User currently offlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2921 posts, RR: 1
Reply 44, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 9061 times:

Quoting sdoyon (Reply 3):
I'd also like to see MHT (got to rep your hometown) get some additional Florida service back as well as a connection to either BNA

Because WN operates a focus city in BNA it would makes since. I'm not real familiar with the STL operations other than what I've read on A.net I understand WN offers a lot of lift out of STL but I don't think the airport holds the moniker of a focus city.

WN started flying BOS-BNA non-stop last August. WN BOS-BNA route must be holding its own in that I not seen one offer on DING for the city pair as of yet.

[Edited 2013-02-28 07:53:37]


Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlineouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4481 posts, RR: 22
Reply 45, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 9068 times:

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 44):
Because WN operates a focus city in BNA it would makes since. I'm not real familiar with the STL operations other than what I've read on A.net I understand WN offers a lot of lift out of STL but I don't think the airport is hold the moniker of a focus city.

As of last month, STL is the 10th largest station for WN with 82 flights to 33 cities. It is actually a larger operation than Nashville.



Any opinion/comment posted is that of my own and not that of Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlinewnflyguy From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2011, 451 posts, RR: 0
Reply 46, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks ago) and read 8726 times:

Well looks like the FL schedule loaded.
The only change I see so far is FLL-SJU service going over to WN.
LAS losing the ATL red eye..
wnfg 



my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
User currently onlineknope2001 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2817 posts, RR: 30
Reply 47, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 8602 times:

I didn't find anything yet very notable in the new FL load, neither additions nor subtractions.

User currently offlinekkephart13 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 48, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 8433 times:

It looks like SNA is going back to 1x SJD and up to 2x SFO.

User currently onlineflyiguy From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1022 posts, RR: 0
Reply 49, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 8115 times:

Hot off the Press

Today, we opened the Southwest and AirTran schedules out for sale through November 1, giving us 242 days of bookable inventory. No full city conversions this time, but we continue the gradual conversion of AirTran’s San Juan service by eliminating AirTran’s daily nonstop roundtrips between San Juan and Ft. Lauderdale, replacing them with TWO daily roundtrips on Southwest. We’ve got several other market changes to tell you about, both permanent and seasonal, so please read on!

On September 29, Southwest will add new daily nonstop roundtrip service between Atlanta and San Diego, between Nashville and Pittsburgh, between Jacksonville, Florida and Chicago/Midway. And we’ll also add our first service from Des Moines to the West with the addition of daily nonstop roundtrips to Las Vegas! The new Des Moines-Las Vegas service is timed for hotel checkin and checkout at your favorite Vegas mega-resort as well as for excellent connections at McCarran International for travelers to or from Iowa’s capital. Other markets be added on a seasonal basis are nonstops between Orlando and both Indianapolis and Minneapolis/St. Paul. Nonstop service will be discontinued in five seasonal markets—Seattle/Tacoma to Atlanta, Nashville, and Seattle, between Cleveland and Las Vegas, and between Chicago/Midway and Reno. Nonstops will be permanently eliminated in the El Paso-San Diego market. However, all six of the discontinued markets will continue to have direct or connecting Southwest service.

The AirTran route network continues to evolve as well with the addition of new seasonal service between Columbus and Ft. Myers, and between Ft. Lauderdale and Pittsburgh. We’ll also add seasonal service between Orlando and both Houston/Hobby and New Orleans, which will supplement long-existing Southwest nonstop service in those markets. We’ll discontinue seasonal AirTran service between Orlando and Kansas City and between Pittsburgh and Tampa Bay, but we’ll continue to offer connecting service in those markets on both AirTran and Southwest.

FLY

[Edited 2013-03-04 02:46:20]


The opinions I post are of mine and mine alone, not of the airline I work for.
User currently offlineJONC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 125 posts, RR: 0
Reply 50, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 7958 times:

wonder if ATL-SAN will be an -800 ??

User currently offlinejporterfi From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 424 posts, RR: 0
Reply 51, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 7970 times:

Quoting flyiguy (Reply 49):
On September 29, Southwest will add new daily nonstop roundtrip service between Atlanta and San Diego

IIRC, FL operated this route for a time and discontinued it a few years ago. I guess WN feels like it can sucessfully compete with DL on the route. I'm glad they brought it back!  


User currently onlineflyiguy From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1022 posts, RR: 0
Reply 52, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 8041 times:

Quoting jporterfi (Reply 51):
IIRC, FL operated this route for a time and discontinued it a few years ago. I guess WN feels like it can sucessfully compete with DL on the route. I'm glad they brought it back!

WN operates close to 90 flights a day in SAN so there are chances for connections and feed to ATL from passengers connecting in SAN. This will not just be an O&D market.

FLY



The opinions I post are of mine and mine alone, not of the airline I work for.
User currently offlinedbo861 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 860 posts, RR: 1
Reply 53, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 7853 times:

Quoting evanbu (Reply 17):
I've given up hope for DSM. It seems WN is completely happy with 2X MDW.
Quoting flyiguy (Reply 49):
And we’ll also add our first service from Des Moines to the West with the addition of daily nonstop roundtrips to Las Vegas! The new Des Moines-Las Vegas service is timed for hotel checkin and checkout at your favorite Vegas mega-resort as well as for excellent connections at McCarran International for travelers to or from Iowa’s capital.

You just needed to be patient. This route begins exactly one year after Southwest started flying to DSM. I'm curious how soon before Allegiant drops DSM-LAS.


User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6476 posts, RR: 24
Reply 54, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 7801 times:

Quoting jporterfi (Reply 51):
IIRC, FL operated this route for a time and discontinued it a few years ago. I guess WN feels like it can sucessfully compete with DL on the route.

FL had no customer base in SAN, whereas WN does. Between WN's strong base in SAN, plus the hub in ATL, they should be able to make the route work, though it won't be easy. However, this once again goes against those who say WN is going to throw the towel in at ATL.


User currently offlineawacsooner From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1800 posts, RR: 1
Reply 55, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 7813 times:

Man...ELP and ABQ have been getting royally screwed over by WN in the past few years...they're losing N/S flights left and right.

User currently onlineknope2001 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2817 posts, RR: 30
Reply 56, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 7737 times:

Quoting flyiguy (Reply 49):
Nonstop service will be discontinued in five seasonal markets—Seattle/Tacoma to Atlanta, Nashville, and Seattle, between Cleveland and Las Vegas, and between Chicago/Midway and Reno.

Assuming the seasonal drop of service between Seattle/Tacoma and Seattle is a typo, anyone catch what the 3rd SEA seasonal drop is?


User currently offlineWNCrew From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 1414 posts, RR: 9
Reply 57, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 7701 times:

Quoting knope2001 (Reply 56):
Quoting flyiguy (Reply 49):
Nonstop service will be discontinued in five seasonal markets—Seattle/Tacoma to Atlanta, Nashville, and Seattle, between Cleveland and Las Vegas, and between Chicago/Midway and Reno.

Assuming the seasonal drop of service between Seattle/Tacoma and Seattle is a typo, anyone catch what the 3rd SEA seasonal drop is?

That WHOLE section of the post was not worded properly IMO. Is it service ending between Seattle-ATL/BNA and then SEPARATELY CLE-LAS and MDW-RNO.....



ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5221 posts, RR: 14
Reply 58, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 7661 times:

I'm glad to see SAN-ATL added. As mentioned, FL offered flights in this market (as many as 3x daily at the height of AirTran's SAN-experiment which lasted from May 2007 to Jan '09. This time, as a WN route, I'm sure it will do very well with both local and connecting traffic.

At the same time, I'm sorry to see SAN-ELP go but that route has seen only a single nonstop for years now. That means we will stay even as far as number of nonstop destinations -- 19. SAN doesn't lose routes very often...

bb


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22299 posts, RR: 20
Reply 59, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 7657 times:

Quoting flyiguy (Reply 49):
between Nashville and Pittsburgh, between Jacksonville, Florida and Chicago/Midway.

As a somewhat frequent traveler to PIT with no good option at present, I'm excited by BNA-PIT. MDW-JAX has been a long time coming, but with the recent elimination of one-stop/connecting options in IND and BHM it's not a huge surprise. With only one daily nonstop, I expect WN will continue to carry a lot of CHI-JAX traffic through BNA, however.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5211 posts, RR: 7
Reply 60, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 7577 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 29):
Regardless, I'm not sure how a 200 flight/day operation that is predominantly RJ and heavily connecting can be compared to a 50 or 60 flight/day all mainline operation that is predominantly local.

CLE and CVG, with their current size and high yield fares, are about 60% O&D, and represent a good use for RJ's that the airlines can't get rid of at the moment. Once UA and DL can each park another 100 50-seaters without paying a huge penalty, we'll see what happens - whether the airlines decide to assign these hubs bigger RJ's or not.



Consilivm: Cave ne nothi te vexant
User currently offlineJONC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 125 posts, RR: 0
Reply 61, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 7536 times:

Quoting awacsooner (Reply 55):

Its just a business. . .if its not making money it doesnt work end of story.Unless those cities are somehow paying SWA's bills another way. . . no one is getting screwed.


User currently offlineMSPNWA From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 1824 posts, RR: 2
Reply 62, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 7494 times:

No surprise at all for ATL-SAN. Been waiting for that one.

User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5221 posts, RR: 14
Reply 63, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 7474 times:

Quoting knope2001 (Reply 56):
Assuming the seasonal drop of service between Seattle/Tacoma and Seattle is a typo, anyone catch what the 3rd SEA seasonal drop is?
Quoting WNCrew (Reply 57):
That WHOLE section of the post was not worded properly IMO. Is it service ending between Seattle-ATL/BNA and then SEPARATELY CLE-LAS and MDW-RNO.....

I don't think so, WN'. I agree with knope', where's the 5th seasonal cancellation?

Quoting flyiguy (Reply 49):
Nonstop service will be discontinued in five seasonal markets...

There are lots of schedules to weed through to try to figure this out but hopefully there will be some sort of clarification from Bill or someone at WN about this.

bb


User currently onlineknope2001 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2817 posts, RR: 30
Reply 64, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 7456 times:

Quoting WNCrew (Reply 57):
That WHOLE section of the post was not worded properly IMO. Is it service ending between Seattle-ATL/BNA and then SEPARATELY CLE-LAS and MDW-RNO.....

Agreed, it was confusing. But I do think there's one more because it says five seasonal markets are being discontinued, and then it lists these:

SEA-ATL
SEA-BNA
SEA-SEA
CLE-LAS
MDW-RNO

If they had not specifically said five seasonal markets are being dropped, I would have summed it was just those four.


User currently onlineknope2001 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2817 posts, RR: 30
Reply 65, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 7392 times:

Quoting knope2001 (Reply 64):

SEA-ATL
SEA-BNA
SEA-SEA
CLE-LAS
MDW-RNO

If they had not specifically said five seasonal markets are being dropped, I would have summed it was just those four.

It appears SEA-STL is the other seasonal drop in this new schedule.


User currently offlineusflyguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 790 posts, RR: 0
Reply 66, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 7355 times:

LGA-STL is getting an additional frequency, anyone see where that slot came from? An FL LGA-MKE flight?


My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
User currently onlineknope2001 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2817 posts, RR: 30
Reply 67, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 6 days ago) and read 7259 times:

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 66):
LGA-STL is getting an additional frequency, anyone see where that slot came from? An FL LGA-MKE flight?

Looks like AirTran LGA-CAK is dropping from 3x to 2x to fund that added STL flight. MKE-LGA is all Southwest (as of this weekend) and remains a steady 4x/day.


User currently offlineQANTAS747-438 From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 1886 posts, RR: 2
Reply 68, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 6 days ago) and read 7161 times:

Quoting JONC777 (Reply 50):
wonder if ATL-SAN will be an -800 ??

Nope, it'll be a -700.



My posts/replies are strictly my opinion and not that of any company, organization, or Southwest Airlines.
User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5221 posts, RR: 14
Reply 69, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 6 days ago) and read 7150 times:

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 62):
No surprise at all for ATL-SAN. Been waiting for that one

The surprise (to me) was that it took so long to be added. Personally, I'd given up on seeing it anytime soon.

Quoting knope2001 (Reply 65):
It appears SEA-STL is the other seasonal drop in this new schedule.

Good work Sherlock. Has that been seasonal in the past? IIRC, that route has had a variable past with WN, going away, then returning after AS entered the market, but I'm not sure if it's been seasonal for a while now. I'll have to check it out.

bb


User currently offlineawacsooner From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1800 posts, RR: 1
Reply 70, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 7039 times:

Quoting JONC777 (Reply 61):

Its just a business. . .if its not making money it doesnt work end of story.Unless those cities are somehow paying SWA's bills another way. . . no one is getting screwed.

I know...figure of speech man.


User currently offlinesteex From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 1564 posts, RR: 9
Reply 71, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 7087 times:

Quoting SANFan (Reply 69):
Good work Sherlock. Has that been seasonal in the past? IIRC, that route has had a variable past with WN, going away, then returning after AS entered the market, but I'm not sure if it's been seasonal for a while now. I'll have to check it out.

It has indeed been seasonal. I would naturally assume that AS has wrapped up the O&D from the SEA end and probably also benefits from capturing some of the AA/DL folks on the STL end, and thus has a stronger ability to fill the plane with decent yield off-season compared to WN (which is mostly going to be capturing from the STL end, plus STL connections).


User currently offlinePhilly65 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 57 posts, RR: 0
Reply 72, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 7073 times:

Somewhat predictable news. It will get more interesting when we see new routes to Caribbean, Mexico or Hawaii.

User currently offlineiowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4312 posts, RR: 6
Reply 73, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 6914 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting mesaflyguy (Reply 10):
Granted ISP isn't what it once was, it's far from dying.

As a WN station it certainly has over the past several years. A look at a summer 2003 schedule out of ISP shows 21 daily flights. At the end of this summer they are only running 11 daily departures.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 54):
However, this once again goes against those who say WN is going to throw the towel in at ATL.

I think WN realizes if they are going to be serious about serving the ATL O&D and competiting with DL they are going to have to serve most of the top 20 markets or so.

Quoting steex (Reply 71):
It has indeed been seasonal. I would naturally assume that AS has wrapped up the O&D from the SEA end and probably also benefits from capturing some of the AA/DL folks on the STL end, and thus has a stronger ability to fill the plane with decent yield off-season compared to WN (which is mostly going to be capturing from the STL end, plus STL connections).

These seasonal cuts out of SEA as well as the CLE-LAS are nothing new. SEA in particular does much healthier during cruise season.

Quoting flyiguy (Reply 49):
And we’ll also add our first service from Des Moines to the West with the addition of daily nonstop roundtrips to Las Vegas!

Wow, this one is very nice and the flight times are excellent as stated for both O&D and LAS connections. The aircraft do a SJC-LAS-DSM-MDW- and MSP-MDW-DSM-LAS-BOI routing.

Schedule out of DSM Sept 30:
0800-0910 DSM-MDW
1015-1125 MDW-DSM
1155-1305 DSM-LAS
1225-1720 LAS-DSM
1750-1900 DSM-MDW
2110-2220 MDW-DSM

This opens up the following connecting markets in both directions (some like SEA were only offered published in one-direction prior to LAS being added):

ABQ
BOI
BUR
ELP (these Texas stations are quite a bit of backtracking)
MAF
OAK
SNA
PDX
RNO
SMF
SLC
SFO
SJC
SEA

Also worth noting is the additional connecting opportunities offered to markets like LAX and SAN.

Quoting dbo861 (Reply 53):
You just needed to be patient. This route begins exactly one year after Southwest started flying to DSM. I'm curious how soon before Allegiant drops DSM-LAS.

Looking on October, the off-peak fares for Southwest on DSM-LAS are $116 on the new flight. Even though these are probably introductory fares, they are about half of what STL-LAS runs ($229 each-way). DSM is only about 150 miles shorter than STL from LAS. Looking at G4 for August (they aren't opened through October yet) they are running DSM-LAS 4x weekly and charging $129 for their lowest fares, which doesn't include free bags and snacks as well as other things.

When checking O&D, it appears DSM-LAS is around 240 passengers (fairly old numbers), comperable to what BHM, ALB, and ICT send to LAS. Another thing to consider though is Allegiant is holding their own on IWA-DSM against US on PHX-DSM, which was mainline for a while this winter on one of the daily flights.


User currently offlineevanbu From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 376 posts, RR: 0
Reply 74, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 6713 times:

With the new WN service to LAS from DSM, G4 is running out of options from DSM. WN will DOMINATE G4 on that route and its only a matter of time before PHX gets added to the schedule out of DSM. Come to think of it, does G4 fly DSM-IWA? I don't think they do. I'm probably wrong.

User currently offlinedbo861 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 860 posts, RR: 1
Reply 75, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 6516 times:

Quoting iowaman (Reply 73):
Schedule out of DSM Sept 30:
0800-0910 DSM-MDW
1015-1125 MDW-DSM
1155-1305 DSM-LAS
1225-1720 LAS-DSM
1750-1900 DSM-MDW
2110-2220 MDW-DSM

I'm kind of surprised the first flight out of DSM is such a late departure. You'd think they'd want to get the aircraft back in the system..by 0800, the aircraft could have flown back to MDW and already taken off to its next city.

Quoting evanbu (Reply 74):
With the new WN service to LAS from DSM, G4 is running out of options from DSM. WN will DOMINATE G4 on that route and its only a matter of time before PHX gets added to the schedule out of DSM. Come to think of it, does G4 fly DSM-IWA? I don't think they do. I'm probably wrong.

You're correct, G4 has never flown DSM-IWA. I'm curious how this flight will affect F9 as well. I could see it siphon away several of their western connections.

As for G4 to LAS, I could see them continue to operate this route seasonally like they do to LAX. There's enough room for two carriers during spring break and other holidays during the year. They'll still have SFB, PIE, and LAX out of DSM. They might even continue to operate year round. They were able to hold their own the last time an airline challenged them on DSM-LAS. NW operated the route with an A319 soon after Allegiant started flying. NW didn't last very long..but they also didn't offer connections in LAS like WN.


User currently offlineiowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4312 posts, RR: 6
Reply 76, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 6346 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting evanbu (Reply 74):
Come to think of it, does G4 fly DSM-IWA? I don't think they do. I'm probably wrong.
Quoting dbo861 (Reply 75):

You're correct, G4 has never flown DSM-IWA. I'm curious how this flight will affect F9 as well. I could see it siphon away several of their western connections.

Oops my apologizes, I stand corrected.

Quoting dbo861 (Reply 75):
NW operated the route with an A319 soon after Allegiant started flying. NW didn't last very long..but they also didn't offer connections in LAS like WN.

IIRC NW wasn't daily where as WN will be.


User currently onlineknope2001 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2817 posts, RR: 30
Reply 77, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 6150 times:

Quoting awacsooner (Reply 55):
Man...ELP and ABQ have been getting royally screwed over by WN in the past few years...they're losing N/S flights left and right.

Looks like this fall, ELP total flights will be 6609 seats on 56 daily departures to 12 nonstop cities, half of which are in Texas. Southwest itself is 26 flights to 7 nonstop cities.

Just for curiosity I pulled October 1993, and ELP had 10,556 seats on 82 daily departures to 15 cities. That's 37% fewer seats. Certainly some of that is the loss of short hops like LBB, but capacity to most destinations is down.


User currently offlinedadoftyler From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 325 posts, RR: 11
Reply 78, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 6077 times:

Quoting WNCrew (Reply 57):
That WHOLE section of the post was not worded properly IMO. Is it service ending between Seattle-ATL/BNA and then SEPARATELY CLE-LAS and MDW-RNO.....

Mea culpa, guys. Sorry, I typed Seattle instead of St. Louis in the post--it will be corrected tommrrow. WNCrew--it would have been worded properly if I had got my cities right!!! Apologies to everyone. And in the interest of condensing the posts--I always try to combine additions or deletions where I can--so I SHOULD have talked about deletion of SEA-ATL/BNA/STL, then CLE-LAS and MDW-RNO. I think all I missed was the STL instead of SEA thing. Sorry to confuse everyone (but of course, that's what a good Network Planner is supposed to do---BWAAAAHAHAHAHAH)

Bill


User currently offlinenwcoflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2003, 687 posts, RR: 14
Reply 79, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 5833 times:

Quoting awacsooner (Reply 55):
Man...ELP and ABQ have been getting royally screwed over by WN in the past few years...they're losing N/S flights left and right.

No... they are finding more profitable markets to fly. Just like US dumped the LAS hub, and DL downsized MEM... ABQ/ELP (though no where near as comparable to the previously mentioned hubs) just don't make sense anymore. Airlines operate for profit. We are not subsidized, if theres no money there.... we run.



The New American is arriving.
User currently offlinewnflyguy From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2011, 451 posts, RR: 0
Reply 80, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 5849 times:

Quoting nwcoflyer (Reply 79):

Just wait until Fall 2014 once WN can open up non stops from DAL to all of the WN network.
Cites like ELP and ABQ will scale down even more with one stop markets now becoming new WA free N/S.
I see a lot 737-800's in DAL future.
wnfg
  



my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
User currently offlinebobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1446 posts, RR: 1
Reply 81, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 5733 times:

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 80):

When DAL opens up the cities that will really scale down will be MCI and STL probably by 50%. I am not expecting a huge change in DAL.

Quoting dbo861 (Reply 75):

I don't think the 0800 DSM departure matters. The whole schedule uses a full aircraft day no matter what time it leaves DSM.


User currently offlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1278 posts, RR: 1
Reply 82, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 5675 times:

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 81):
When DAL opens up the cities that will really scale down will be MCI and STL probably by 50%. I am not expecting a huge change in DAL.

I highly doubt they would build STL to the 10th larget city and make that temporary. STL also serves as a releaver to MDW. And if your not expecting a huge change why would you suggest cutting about 60 flights at other airports? This simply won't happen.



You will either love or hate the airline industry. If you love it, it will get in your blood and it will never leave.
User currently offlinebobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1446 posts, RR: 1
Reply 83, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 5638 times:

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 82):

I mean DAL-STL will be cut by 50%. Not STL itself. Same with MCI.


User currently offlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1278 posts, RR: 1
Reply 84, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 5589 times:

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 83):

Gotcha. Makes more sense.



You will either love or hate the airline industry. If you love it, it will get in your blood and it will never leave.
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22299 posts, RR: 20
Reply 85, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 5579 times:

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 81):
When DAL opens up the cities that will really scale down will be MCI and STL probably by 50%. I am not expecting a huge change in DAL.

I expect we'll see other cuts too, including but not limited to BHM, OKC and intra-Texas.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently onlineknope2001 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2817 posts, RR: 30
Reply 86, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 5510 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 85):
Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 81):
When DAL opens up the cities that will really scale down will be MCI and STL probably by 50%. I am not expecting a huge change in DAL.

I expect we'll see other cuts too, including but not limited to BHM, OKC and intra-Texas.


Really, that makes perfect sense. If they add DAL-MDW nonstop, a lot less traffic will flow from Dallas to Chicago over places like St Louis and Kansas City. So there may be less demand for DAL-MCI and DAL-STL and thus perhaps fewer trips. it also could mean fewer trips on MCI-MDW and STL-MDW. And when you think about it, neither MDW nor DAL are exactly overflowing with vacant real estate for scores of additional flights, so it would make some sense that shorter markets see frequency cuts.

If we're *specifically* talking about Kansas City and St Louis, Even if a few frequenzies are trimmed I would still expect pretty frequent flights to both Dallas and Chicago because of the size of the local market and because both cities are WN de facto hubs where traffic flows in many directions. Other 1-stop midpoints where there's somewhat less demand and fewer connecting options might see a more severe cut. But it really depends on the specifics of each market.

I wonder how much DAL-HOU-xxx traffic flow there is and if the end of Wright will put any dent whatsoever in DAL-HOU frequencies. Certainly this is a huge local market for Southwest with massive capacity. One wonders how much traffic in markets like DAL-HOU-MCO or DAL-HOU-LAX there is, and if moving that flow to nonstop flights will make a blip of any sort in the DAL-HOU total onboard demand.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22299 posts, RR: 20
Reply 87, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 5454 times:

Quoting knope2001 (Reply 86):
I wonder how much DAL-HOU-xxx traffic flow there is and if the end of Wright will put any dent whatsoever in DAL-HOU frequencies. Certainly this is a huge local market for Southwest with massive capacity. One wonders how much traffic in markets like DAL-HOU-MCO or DAL-HOU-LAX there is, and if moving that flow to nonstop flights will make a blip of any sort in the DAL-HOU total onboard demand.

I can tell you anecdotally that DAL-BHM carries a lot of thru traffic, though perhaps less now that BHM-BNA is cut. It was not uncommon for DAL-BHM-BNA flights to have 50-60 thrus on them.

To your point, DAL-SAT might also see a blip in demand.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently onlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6573 posts, RR: 32
Reply 88, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 5314 times:

Quoting dbo861 (Reply 75):
I'm kind of surprised the first flight out of DSM is such a late departure. You'd think they'd want to get the aircraft back in the system..by 0800, the aircraft could have flown back to MDW and already taken off to its next city.

I'd expect that they're trying to give themselves some leeway with respect to crew rest since the terminator arrives at 2220 the previous night. The crew overnighting in DSM can't legally depart until 0620, and delays are common enough at MDW that they don't want a delay of an hour or so to disrupt the next day's schedule.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 87):
To your point, DAL-SAT might also see a blip in demand.

DAL-AUS as well since there are a fair number of connections from DAL published over AUS.

Quoting knope2001 (Reply 77):
Just for curiosity I pulled October 1993, and ELP had 10,556 seats on 82 daily departures to 15 cities. That's 37% fewer seats. Certainly some of that is the loss of short hops like LBB, but capacity to most destinations is down.

ELP was in the doghouse with WN for quite a while after building an expensive new terminal which WN didn't want. There are certain other factors at play as well -- the end of the DL hub at DFW (which offered at least three daily mainline departures from ELP in 1993 IIRC), the shrinking of UA's DEN hub (all UA ELP-DEN service is now on 50-seat RJ's instead of mainline), the general proliferation of RJ's in the industry (IAH-ELP has gone from all-mainline to all-RJ; ORD-ELP was a mainline route in the past, HP's mainline PHX-ELP is now RJ's, etc.)

Quoting iowaman (Reply 73):
As a WN station it certainly has over the past several years. A look at a summer 2003 schedule out of ISP shows 21 daily flights. At the end of this summer they are only running 11 daily departures.

B6's growth at JFK has had a big impact on ISP.


User currently offlinebobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1446 posts, RR: 1
Reply 89, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 5 days ago) and read 5281 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 87):

I can tell you anecdotally that DAL-BHM carries a lot of thru traffic, though perhaps less now that BHM-BNA is cut. It was not uncommon for DAL-BHM-BNA flights to have 50-60 thrus on them.

I think all current DAL service will see some reductions come 2014.

I am only guessing but I think the DAL adds will be:
ATL 3 flights
MDW 3-4 flights
BWI 2 flights
BNA 2 flights
DEN 3 flights
PHX 3 flights
LAS 2 flights
LAX 2-3 flights
MCO 1 flight

This will result in cuts to nearly all service from DAL today. Obviously there will be some stimulation in these new markets but probably not price stimulation. I cant see DAL-STL or MCI at 8-10. More like 4-5.


User currently offlineusflyguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 790 posts, RR: 0
Reply 90, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 5 days ago) and read 5239 times:

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 89):

You're missing SAN, LGA/EWR, FLL, TPA, OAK/SFO...



My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
User currently offlineQANTAS747-438 From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 1886 posts, RR: 2
Reply 91, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 5118 times:

Quoting knope2001 (Reply 86):
One wonders how much traffic in markets like DAL-HOU-MCO or DAL-HOU-LAX there is,

A ton. Our LAX-ELP-DAL flights are often full with at least half, 60, being thru paxs in ELP. Same is true for our LAX-ABQ-DAL and LAX-SAT-DAL flights. Majority are going to DAL. I predict 5 daily LAX-DAL flts in 2014.



My posts/replies are strictly my opinion and not that of any company, organization, or Southwest Airlines.
User currently offlinebobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1446 posts, RR: 1
Reply 92, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 5065 times:

My understanding is about 50% of the traffic on ATL-AUS is going to DAL

User currently offlinechrisair From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1998 posts, RR: 3
Reply 93, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 5082 times:

Quoting QANTAS747-438 (Reply 91):
Our LAX-ELP-DAL flights are often full with at least half, 60, being thru paxs in ELP.

I've done the PHX-ELP run several times and whenever the plane continued to DAL, it'd have 80+ thrus. Many of whom are employees going to visit the mothership.


User currently offline737tanker From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 257 posts, RR: 0
Reply 94, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 4866 times:

Quoting ScottB (Reply 88):
I'd expect that they're trying to give themselves some leeway with respect to crew rest since the terminator arrives at 2220 the previous night. The crew overnighting in DSM can't legally depart until 0620,

I don' think the time is due to crew rest requirements. In order to meet the SWA pilot's contract with a 2220 arrival they couldn't leave until 0820. For this reason, among others, SWA crews with AM/PM crews. This way it doesn't matter what time the PM crew terminates because the AM crew is already off duty and sleeping at the hotel.


User currently onlineknope2001 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2817 posts, RR: 30
Reply 95, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 4687 times:

Regarding guessing how DAL longer-haul traffic migrating to nonstops might affect the short-haul hops those passengers now transit, I did some playing with Q3 stats. From the DoT stats I found how many people flew locallly between DAL and cities like MSY, MCI, HOU, etc. And then from the T100's I found out how many people were onboard the nonstop segments between DAL and those same cities. Doing this allows us to get an idea of the % of onboard passengers who are actually locals.

Southwest DAL nonstop markets ranked by % of onboard passengers which were locals, Q3 2012

The passenger counts listed are total both directions combined per day.

% locals...daily locals...N/S onboard...city
47.5% ……. 601 ....….. 1265 ...……. MSY
46.1% ….. 2054 ....….. 4451 ...……. HOU
44.2% ….. 1016 ....….. 2299 ...……. SAT
43.5% ……. 469 ....….. 1078 …...…. LBB
40.5% ……. 466 ....….. 1153 …...…. ELP
38.7% ……. 404 ....….. 1042 …...…. AMA
36.7% ……. 364 ....……. 994 …….... MAF
33.7% ……. 308 ....……. 913 ...……. LIT
33.5% ……. 603 ....….. 1802 ...……. MCI
32.8% ……. 192 ....……. 585 ...……. BHM
31.7% ……. 712 ....….. 2244 …...…. AUS
29.1% ……. 269 ....……. 926 …...…. TUL
27.8% ……. 482 ....….. 1736 …..…. STL
26.9% ……. 432 ....….. 1606 …...…. ABQ
17.7% ……. 133 ...……. 751 …….... OKC

Every market is more than half non-local passengers. But it's important that not only are some of these non-locals people who might find they way to DAL nonstops (like the DAL-MCI passenger who is actually flying DAL-MCI-MDW and might instead take a DAL-MDW nonstop) but many others (as ScottB pointed out) are connections served over Dallas, like AUS-DAL-MCI. Those passengers won't be affected by DAL-MDW nonstops and will stil llikely transit Dallas.

So while I do suspect some reductions will be seen in a market like DAL-ABQ when there are DAL nonstops to LAX, PHX, LAS, etc, don't expect all the connecting and thru passengers currently fortifying DAL-ABQ to disappear.


User currently offlinebobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1446 posts, RR: 1
Reply 96, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 4560 times:

Quoting knope2001 (Reply 95):

OKC-DAL might be on the elimination list. Short flight less than 20% local. Eliminating DAL but keeping HOU would seem to be a possibility.


User currently onlineknope2001 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2817 posts, RR: 30
Reply 97, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 4455 times:

For what it's worth, here are the approximate driving distances from the generic "Dallas TX" to each city

3.00 OKC
3.00 AUS
3.50 HOU
4.00 SAT
4.00 TUL
4.75 MAF
4.75 LIT
5.00 LBB
5.75 AMA
7.50 MSY
7.75 MCI
8.75 ELP
9.50 ABQ
9.75 STL

The car is the obvious competitor to the short haul air trip. And depending on where you are in these sprawling metro areas, you might have a significant drive to your own airport and another significant drive after you touch down in your destination city. But there's a certain amount of flying culture that Southwest cultivated over many years with resonable fares and frequent flights which may not exist in some other places which keeps more people airborne than might be expected.


User currently offlineouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4481 posts, RR: 22
Reply 98, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 4 days ago) and read 4331 times:

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 96):
OKC-DAL might be on the elimination list. Short flight less than 20% local. Eliminating DAL but keeping HOU would seem to be a possibility.

I don't think we'll see an outright elimination of the route, but might go down to 3 daily flights instead of 5. It's hard to say though. DAL is going to see a lot of reworking. I can't see any routes really getting outright eliminated, but definitely frequency reductions for sure. If I were to guess, I could see the DAL network expanded to include:

3 or more daily flights: DEN, LAS, PHX, MDW, ATL

2 daily flights: BWI, OAK, LAX, MEM, BNA, MCO, FLL, CLT, EWR, BOS

1 daily flight: SEA, SAN, TPA, JAX, RDU, IND, PIT, DCA, PHL, LGA

Give or take 35 additional flights a day. With WN having 16 dates at LUV when all said and done, and on average doing right around 10 flights a day per gate, this would put them right on target. Right now there are roughly 126 flights a day from the airport, add in the 35 above, and the are just a flight over.

Currently they are looking at...
ABQ - 8, AMA - 6, AUS - 12, BHM - 3, BKG - 1, ELP - 7, HRL - 2, HOU - 25, MCI - 9, LIT - 6, MAF - 5, MSY - 7, OKC - 5, STL - 8, SAT - 14, TUL - 6.

Looking at the table above you could argue a decrease in most of these. HOU won't get touched because that shuttle service is a huge attraction to local business pax.

ABQ obviously won't need 8 daily flights so they could get hit hard - down to 4 to 5 daily.
STL won't need to provide as much connection feed so down to 5 to 6 flights.
TUL probably match OKC's frequency of around 4 to 5.
AUS could easily get by on no more 10 flights, but intra-Texas politics may play a role.
BHM could see a flight cut.
MCI could easily go down to 6 flights.
LIT probably see a cut back to 4 to 5 flights.
MAF, AMA, ELP, LBB probably all escape any real cuts.
SAT likely survives.
MSY probably about the same as well since it is the strongest O&D market based on Knope's figures. So that frees up another 18 flights (based on their max usage of gates) which would likely move to my "3+" markets above. Pushing DEN to maybe 6 daily, LAS to 5 daily, PHX to 5 daily, MDW to 6 daily, ATL to 5 daily, and then the remaining 6 "slots" would probably fall in to place over BWI, LAX, and OAK.

It'll be pretty impressive when its all said and done in my opinion. Going from 16 markets to probably over 40.



Any opinion/comment posted is that of my own and not that of Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlineawacsooner From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1800 posts, RR: 1
Reply 99, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 4276 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 85):

I expect we'll see other cuts too, including but not limited to BHM, OKC and intra-Texas.

I want to know why so many people are so quick to think that DAL-OKC is going to be chopped as soon as WA goes away next year. Do you guys even do any research on the sheer amount of O/D traffic there is between OKC and the Metroplex? If you did, you'd note that DAL/DFW is the largest O/D from OKC...with HOU/IAH being second.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22299 posts, RR: 20
Reply 100, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 4248 times:

Quoting awacsooner (Reply 99):
Do you guys even do any research on the sheer amount of O/D traffic there is between OKC and the Metroplex?

DAL-OKC O&D is not even enough to fill a single daily 737. It's around 70 PDEW. Total O&D to the Metroplex is around 120 PDEW.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineawacsooner From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1800 posts, RR: 1
Reply 101, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 4130 times:

Incorrect. The numbers the WN station manager showed me in January reflected a 180 pax per day AVERAGE have O/D OKC-DAL. AA, with their increasing flights, I bet is even more.

User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22299 posts, RR: 20
Reply 102, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 4185 times:

Quoting awacsooner (Reply 101):
Incorrect. The numbers the WN station manager showed me in January reflected a 180 pax per day AVERAGE have O/D OKC-DAL.

Unless WN is lying to the government, I can't help you. You sure they weren't counting thru passengers?

In any event, it's a small fraction of the number of seats WN offers in the market.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlinesteex From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 1564 posts, RR: 9
Reply 103, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 4173 times:

Quoting awacsooner (Reply 101):

Incorrect. The numbers the WN station manager showed me in January reflected a 180 pax per day AVERAGE have O/D OKC-DAL. AA, with their increasing flights, I bet is even more.

The speculation is driven not by the idea that there is zero traffic between Dallas and Oklahoma City, but rather that the route is similar in terms of both O&D traffic and stage length to routes like MDW-IND, which WN also chose to cut. They have been loathe to operate short flights of late, and this is a very short flight.


User currently offlineouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4481 posts, RR: 22
Reply 104, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 4127 times:

Quoting steex (Reply 103):
The speculation is driven not by the idea that there is zero traffic between Dallas and Oklahoma City, but rather that the route is similar in terms of both O&D traffic and stage length to routes like MDW-IND, which WN also chose to cut. They have been loathe to operate short flights of late, and this is a very short flight.

We'll just have to see how it all plays out. Will the route go completely away? Doubt it. It'll get reduced as they move things around.



Any opinion/comment posted is that of my own and not that of Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlinesteex From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 1564 posts, RR: 9
Reply 105, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 4121 times:

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 104):
We'll just have to see how it all plays out. Will the route go completely away? Doubt it. It'll get reduced as they move things around.

I certainly don't know either way, just clarifying the basis for speculation. If you'd told me five years ago that WN would cut MDW-IND, though, I'd think that was ridiculous as well. I think nearly anything is fair game at this point.


User currently offlineawacsooner From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1800 posts, RR: 1
Reply 106, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 4110 times:

Quoting steex (Reply 103):
The speculation is driven not by the idea that there is zero traffic between Dallas and Oklahoma City, but rather that the route is similar in terms of both O&D traffic and stage length to routes like MDW-IND, which WN also chose to cut. They have been loathe to operate short flights of late, and this is a very short flight.

So, using that logic, why does WN keep all those short flights from HOU?

My point is: everyone is predicting doom and gloom for all these markets when WA gets lifted...how about we just wait and see? I think we'll be surprised that most of the existing routes from DAL will stand on their own post-WA.


User currently offlinealggag From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 98 posts, RR: 0
Reply 107, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 4057 times:

It's the forgotten station on the WN route map but I've wondered about the possibility of CRP being converted into a DAL spoke in 2014 (as in all CRP-HOU flights be discontinued and replaced with CRP-DAL). At 400 miles / 6 hours driving, there might be more O/D demand for DAL-CRP versus HOU-CRP at 200 miles / 3 hours. Anybody have numbers on DAL-CRP demand vs. HOU-CRP?

User currently offlineouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4481 posts, RR: 22
Reply 108, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 3969 times:

Quoting alggag (Reply 107):
Anybody have numbers on DAL-CRP demand vs. HOU-CRP?

DAL - 275 ppd
HOU - 183 ppd

Seems like an opportunity to bring a flight or two in from DAL, unless they like routing over HOU. Considering the 25 daily flights to HOU won't go away (more than likely) it might make more sense to route pax through there to fill seats.



Any opinion/comment posted is that of my own and not that of Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22299 posts, RR: 20
Reply 109, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 3822 times:

Quoting awacsooner (Reply 106):
My point is: everyone is predicting doom and gloom for all these markets when WA gets lifted...how about we just wait and see?

Not at all, but the additions at DAL have to get funded somehow.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineFlytravel From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 873 posts, RR: 0
Reply 110, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 3769 times:

I'm not sure WN would offer so much in DAL- east coast spoke flights given that it'd want connection traffic supporting BWI, ATL, BNA and/or STL. It'd need more slots at EWR or discontinuing or downsizing another route. BOS-Dallas is long, something WN avoids esp when there are already other carriers. It still hasnt launched BOS- HOU. For Dallas-BOS there is already: AA and B6. DCA-BNA will probably happen before DCA-DAL if more slots are attained at DCA. BUt LGA and DCA maybe exceptions in general over other east spokes that will get DAL nonstop.

PHL-Dallas will have just AA assuming the merger of AA and US proceeds. A one daily NK flight doesn't count as real competition as it isn't used by corporate travel sites . That would seem to give incentive for WN, but WN might want volume thru low fare 1 stops instead in this case. It also pulled out of other PHL-Texas nonstop activity in favor of pax 1 stopping somewhere mid distance in BNA, STL and maybe ATL on WN metal that is assuming it keeps PHL-ATL. Somebody has to support a WN PHLATL, but PHL pax supported US on other business routes, ATL pax might support DL first. WN might have to ramp up on connections via ATL to Texas, MSY, Southeast, N. Florida. Similarly with RDU. RDU-DAL might not happen if RDU-ATL is fought for and thus RDU-ATL-DAL will be the typical itinerary between RDU and DAL. WN pulled out of RDU-FLL ceding RDU-S.Florida to AA and B6. AA is strong in RDU as well atleast with business pax and WN hasn't grown at RDU lately.


User currently offlineKLAXAirport From United States of America, joined Nov 2011, 139 posts, RR: 0
Reply 111, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 3747 times:

We want Hawaii!!!!!            

Cheers,
KLAXAirport   


User currently offlinealggag From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 98 posts, RR: 0
Reply 112, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 3631 times:

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 108):

DAL - 275 ppd
HOU - 183 ppd

Seems like an opportunity to bring a flight or two in from DAL, unless they like routing over HOU. Considering the 25 daily flights to HOU won't go away (more than likely) it might make more sense to route pax through there to fill seats.

Yeah, I was going to add that maybe 2x DAL and 3x HOU to possibly get some slightly better numbers out of the CRP station. As for HOU-DAL, I could see them dropping a couple of off peak flights if they have really aggressive plans for DAL and start to become pressed for gate space. I live in Houston and am well aware that HOU-DAL is an excellent example of "it's about yields, not loads!"   but think they could cut a couple at the less desirable times if need be.

Quoting Flytravel (Reply 110):
I'm not sure WN would offer so much in DAL- east coast spoke flights given that it'd want connection traffic supporting BWI, ATL, BNA and/or STL. It'd need more slots at EWR or discontinuing or downsizing another route. BOS-Dallas is long, something WN avoids esp when there are already other carriers. It still hasnt launched BOS- HOU. For Dallas-BOS there is already: AA and B6. DCA-BNA will probably happen before DCA-DAL if more slots are attained at DCA. BUt LGA and DCA maybe exceptions in general over other east spokes that will get DAL nonstop.

Generally speaking, I really can't see them flying anywhere that's not currently served out of HOU with the exceptions of SFO, DCA, or BOS. That said, WN has already applied for DCA-HOU and I could see SFO being added. As for BOS, as you point out they have yet to add BOS-HOU so possibly the least likely of the maybes.


User currently offlineouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4481 posts, RR: 22
Reply 113, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 3 days ago) and read 3519 times:

Quoting steex (Reply 105):
I certainly don't know either way, just clarifying the basis for speculation. If you'd told me five years ago that WN would cut MDW-IND, though, I'd think that was ridiculous as well. I think nearly anything is fair game at this point.

Completely agree, I just see DAL-OKC pretty important still when it comes to a connection point. There is still a lot of OKC-Texas traffic that will route over DAL (1 stop or connection) instead of going to HOU. As DAL increases on its importance for a connecting point, that will help keep the route around. Heck AA is adding 2 more flights to DFW from OKC (while retaining the existing 7 mainline)...so the route isn't completely hopeless. However, that MDW-IND thing throws a snag in things.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 109):
Not at all, but the additions at DAL have to get funded somehow.

A short hop to OKC isn't going to provide enough aircraft to do a run to the coast. However when looking at gate space, I kept that in mind when brain storming the numbers and figuring out frequencies that would loosely make sense. Though I'm sure Bill is glancing over this thread holding his head in his hands feeling sorry for my...sorry skills.  
Quoting Flytravel (Reply 110):
I'm not sure WN would offer so much in DAL- east coast spoke flights given that it'd want connection traffic supporting BWI, ATL, BNA and/or STL. It'd need more slots at EWR or discontinuing or downsizing another route. BOS-Dallas is long, something WN avoids esp when there are already other carriers. It still hasnt launched BOS- HOU. For Dallas-BOS there is already: AA and B6. DCA-BNA will probably happen before DCA-DAL if more slots are attained at DCA. BUt LGA and DCA maybe exceptions in general over other east spokes that will get DAL nonstop.

I think you have to take into consideration this is their home. They have wanted DAL to be able to go anywhere in their network. They have a massive local O&D following that would absolutely make it worth it to offer at least 1 nonstop a day in many markets. I absolutely think we'll see some pull down in a couple markets to allow for this (CAK's LGA service is probably going to be gone in a couple years IMO). A lot of this comes down to service WN's pax in DAL...if AA, B6, US, etc are already in the market it isn't that big of an issue unless their own following isn't big enough as they think. Much like with all this Hawaii talk. WN customers are forced to book on others, and even though the market is saturated now, many of those will come back if WN starts it up.

Quoting Flytravel (Reply 110):
PHL-Dallas will have just AA assuming the merger of AA and US proceeds. A one daily NK flight doesn't count as real competition as it isn't used by corporate travel sites . That would seem to give incentive for WN, but WN might want volume thru low fare 1 stops instead in this case. It also pulled out of other PHL-Texas nonstop activity in favor of pax 1 stopping somewhere mid distance in BNA, STL and maybe ATL on WN metal that is assuming it keeps PHL-ATL. Somebody has to support a WN PHLATL, but PHL pax supported US on other business routes, ATL pax might support DL first. WN might have to ramp up on connections via ATL to Texas, MSY, Southeast, N. Florida. Similarly with RDU. RDU-DAL might not happen if RDU-ATL is fought for and thus RDU-ATL-DAL will be the typical itinerary between RDU and DAL. WN pulled out of RDU-FLL ceding RDU-S.Florida to AA and B6. AA is strong in RDU as well atleast with business pax and WN hasn't grown at RDU lately.

WN doesn't want everything on low fare 1 stops. Higher yielding O&D nonstops will always be king and if they can make it work on a flight or two, I feel the company will.

Quoting alggag (Reply 112):
Yeah, I was going to add that maybe 2x DAL and 3x HOU to possibly get some slightly better numbers out of the CRP station. As for HOU-DAL, I could see them dropping a couple of off peak flights if they have really aggressive plans for DAL and start to become pressed for gate space. I live in Houston and am well aware that HOU-DAL is an excellent example of "it's about yields, not loads!"   but think they could cut a couple at the less desirable times if need be.

Changing HOU-DAL is a slippery slope. Everyone knows there is a flight that leaves every half hour. If they miss a flight, they can just get on the next with usually no issue. Cutting it back any could raise some issues.

Quoting alggag (Reply 112):
Generally speaking, I really can't see them flying anywhere that's not currently served out of HOU with the exceptions of SFO, DCA, or BOS. That said, WN has already applied for DCA-HOU and I could see SFO being added. As for BOS, as you point out they have yet to add BOS-HOU so possibly the least likely of the maybes.

When I was guessing at routes looking at the HOU operation was one of the methods. If there wasn't any service near the state of Texas, I didn't really put it on there - unless it made some weird sense. It's all a guessing game, no right or wrong answer (in my head), so we'll see how it all plays out.



Any opinion/comment posted is that of my own and not that of Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlineusflyguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 790 posts, RR: 0
Reply 114, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 3 days ago) and read 3473 times:

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 113):
Changing HOU-DAL is a slippery slope. Everyone knows there is a flight that leaves every half hour. If they miss a flight, they can just get on the next with usually no issue. Cutting it back any could raise some issues.

Take another look at the schedule. As it stands, they don't leave every half hour.



My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
User currently offlineouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4481 posts, RR: 22
Reply 115, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 3431 times:

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 114):
Take another look at the schedule. As it stands, they don't leave every half hour.

Dear god...picky aren't we? I guess 0615 and 0630 aren't thirty minutes apart. Then the 2PM only runs on Saturday...same with the 6PM. Of course it slows down in the evening, just like any shuttle tends to. Yawn.



Any opinion/comment posted is that of my own and not that of Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22299 posts, RR: 20
Reply 116, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3164 times:

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 113):
A short hop to OKC isn't going to provide enough aircraft to do a run to the coast.

No, but I tend to think that a lot of the aircraft for DAL are going to come from short-ish routes without a lot of O&D, sort of the tier above MDW-IND and MCO-RSW. Of course, 3 or 4 of those flights will need to be cut to fund DAL-LAX.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlinesouthwest737500 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 117, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 2997 times:

I would love to see DAL-CLT!

User currently offlineouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4481 posts, RR: 22
Reply 118, posted (1 year 1 month 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 2976 times:

Quoting southwest737500 (Reply 117):
I would love to see DAL-CLT!

Of course you would. :-P LOL

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 116):
No, but I tend to think that a lot of the aircraft for DAL are going to come from short-ish routes without a lot of O&D, sort of the tier above MDW-IND and MCO-RSW. Of course, 3 or 4 of those flights will need to be cut to fund DAL-LAX.

I see what you are saying. We'll just have to see how things work out. I'm sure Bill's fingers will start to hurt from typing up all the changes next year.  



Any opinion/comment posted is that of my own and not that of Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlinesouthwest737500 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 119, posted (1 year 1 month 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2689 times:

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 118):

No offensive but whats wrong with me saying that.


User currently onlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6729 posts, RR: 18
Reply 120, posted (1 year 1 month 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2681 times:

Wait! Southwest dropped FLL? When did this happen? I know it was given to Airtran as a seasonal flight, but I thought it was supposed to revert back to Southwest after that. Is it gone?


Aiming High and going far..
User currently offlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1278 posts, RR: 1
Reply 121, posted (1 year 1 month 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2584 times:

Quoting southwest737500 (Reply 119):

I don't think he indicated anything was wrong with that but just poking fun with you. I think everyone knows you would like any city to CLT so he was just poking fun. Thats my take on it anyway.



You will either love or hate the airline industry. If you love it, it will get in your blood and it will never leave.
User currently offlineouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4481 posts, RR: 22
Reply 122, posted (1 year 1 month 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 2524 times:

Quoting southwest737500 (Reply 119):
No offensive but whats wrong with me saying that.
Quoting airliner371 (Reply 121):
I don't think he indicated anything was wrong with that but just poking fun with you. I think everyone knows you would like any city to CLT so he was just poking fun. Thats my take on it anyway.

This.   Nothing wrong with it at all. I love that people support their hometowns like you do. I'm just glad you don't take it to the extreme and troll websites/cities that are apparently at war with your home airport like some Indiana folks do.



Any opinion/comment posted is that of my own and not that of Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlinesouthwest737500 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 123, posted (1 year 1 month 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 2432 times:

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 122):

Hehe thank you! I've lived here for 10 years so CLT has come a long way from 22 million to 41 million! I just love SWA and hope they do well here  


User currently offlineJetBlue1058 From United States of America, joined Mar 2013, 104 posts, RR: 0
Reply 124, posted (1 year 1 month 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 2239 times:

Well firstly I have no idea what they are talking about when they say the AirTran PIT-FLL is NEW.
We have had that route for may years now and it's performed well!



JetBlue E190 seats, 5D and 16A= no better place in the world
User currently offlinesouthwest737500 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 125, posted (1 year 1 month 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 2137 times:

Quoting JetBlue1058 (Reply 124):

Any proof that it has performed well?


User currently offlinesdoyon From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 231 posts, RR: 0
Reply 126, posted (1 year 1 month 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 2067 times:

Somewhat related (and I'm mostly putting this here because we don't have a catch-all WN thread), it looks like BWI has updated their terminal map as of last month and WN/FL are now listed under Concourse C tenants.

http://www.bwiairport.com/files/pdfs/bwi_maps/UL_2-22-2013.pdf

Does anyone know how many gates are going to be for WN/FL, AA/MQ, and NK?

I also heard a rumor that Concourse C would also have int'l capacity on a few (2) gates. Any info on that would also be appreciated!


User currently offlineouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4481 posts, RR: 22
Reply 127, posted (1 year 1 month 2 hours ago) and read 1807 times:

Next phase of the codeshare is now live on both Southwest.com and AirTran.com.

[Edited 2013-03-17 08:28:21]


Any opinion/comment posted is that of my own and not that of Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlineWNCrew From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 1414 posts, RR: 9
Reply 128, posted (1 year 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1665 times:

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 127):

Next phase of the codeshare is now live on both Southwest.com and AirTran.com.

Maybe I'm not understanding this all, but when I try to book say, CLT-SNA it still tries to throw me over to the Airtran.com website... so... which routes ARE code-shares that can be booked solely at Southwest.com to avoid baggage fees?



ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1278 posts, RR: 1
Reply 129, posted (1 year 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1637 times:

Quoting WNCrew (Reply 128):

The full codeshare is now bookable for flights on & after April 14, 2013.



You will either love or hate the airline industry. If you love it, it will get in your blood and it will never leave.
User currently offlineWNCrew From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 1414 posts, RR: 9
Reply 130, posted (1 year 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1609 times:

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 129):

The full codeshare is now bookable for flights on & after April 14, 2013.

..but it's still only domestic right? What's left domestically that we codeshare on at that point? I'm curious... thanks!



ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlineAtrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5686 posts, RR: 52
Reply 131, posted (1 year 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 1500 times:

Quoting WNCrew (Reply 130):

..but it's still only domestic right? What's left domestically that we codeshare on at that point? I'm curious... thanks!

For starters STL-ATL!  

For months even with the code share starting, STL-ATL was not code shared at all nor flown by WN Metal (odd to me considering but oh well). April 18th, we can finally book STL-ATL on southwest.com and be booked onto Air Tran Metal as well as any STL-ATL-FL City.

Alex



Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
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