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LOT Long Haul Service With 3 767s?  
User currently offlineBOAC911 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 453 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 12542 times:
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According to various websites and sources, LOT has three 767-300 in its fleet. Could someone on here explain to me how they can run the current intercontinental schedule with just 3 767s? New York (more than 1x daily), Chicago more that 1x daily, Toronto more than 7x weekly, and Peking (3x weekly) Do they have more some leased equipment? Any info is greatly appreciated.

30 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineB6JFKH81 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2891 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 12512 times:

Airfleets shows 4 B763's active for LO

MSN LN Type Delivery date Registration Remark
24843 314 767-341ERF 06/07/2005 SP-LPE
24865 322 767-35DER 29/03/2000 SP-LPA Named Warszawa
26263 592 767-306ER 10/01/2010 SP-LPG lsd from ILFC - Named "city Of Vancouver"
27902 577 767-35DER 25/11/2005 SP-LPB Named Gdansk

Wasn't some of the service suspended until the B788's come back online?



"If you do not learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it"
User currently offlinemke717spotter From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 2458 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 12440 times:

Quoting BOAC911 (Thread starter):
Could someone on here explain to me how they can run the current intercontinental schedule with just 3 767s? New York (more than 1x daily), Chicago more that 1x daily, Toronto more than 7x weekly, and Peking (3x weekly)


Are you sure those are the frequencies for right now? Because what you posted would seem to be more in line with their usual summer schedule.

Quoting B6JFKH81 (Reply 1):
Wasn't some of the service suspended until the B788's come back online?


I believe they announced that the 787s are being held out of the schedule until October, though you'd have to think that if Boeing can get the issue resolved by the summer time then they'd probably insert them back in ASAP.



Will you watch the Cleveland Browns and the Detroit Lions on Sunday? Only if coach Eric Mangini resigned after a loss.
User currently onlineThomas_Jaeger From Switzerland, joined Apr 2002, 2388 posts, RR: 28
Reply 3, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 12252 times:

SP-LPA had been temporarily on the ground and it was expected it would not fly again but obviously everything has changed now. They would have needed five B787-8s this summer if I interpret their schedule correctly, so with four B767-300ERs have a problem already. As of now their schedule has the following long-haul frequencies in July for example:
PEK: 5x weekly
ORD: 11x weekly
JFK: 11x weekly
YYZ: 8x weekly

Total of 35 weekly flights of 5 per day.



Swiss aviation news junkie living all over the place
User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8376 posts, RR: 7
Reply 4, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 12220 times:
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With the 787 being grounded it sounds like LOT has made leasing arrangements for extra airplanes this summer.

User currently offlineWROORD From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 956 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 12086 times:

Their new CEO has said that they cannot afford to operate on a month to month basis and so they are assuming that 787s will not fly till October. With that said they are leasing 5 frames to cover their schedule. He did say that should 787 become available sooner they will make the schedule adjustments.

User currently onlineSXDFC From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 2352 posts, RR: 21
Reply 6, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 11987 times:

Despite having the lack of $$$, is there anyway for LO to cancel their 788 order, get some sort of compensation from Boeing and put that $$$ towards A330s or another A/C that could help LO.


ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlinePolot From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 2190 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 11953 times:

Quoting SXDFC (Reply 6):
Despite having the lack of $$$, is there anyway for LO to cancel their 788 order, get some sort of compensation from Boeing and put that $$$ towards A330s or another A/C that could help LO.

Doesn't really help LOT all that much. For starters they don't need to cancel the 787 to get compensation. The 787 issues will probably be sorted well before LOT could get any new A330s (Airbus doesn't really have those lying around), and then they just put themselves completely behind the competition in terms of having next generation aircraft (and LOT needs all the help they can get on their intercontinental routes). Also between the 787 and the A350 the 787 is a better fit sizewise for LOT.


User currently offlineAsiaflyer From Singapore, joined May 2007, 1136 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 11953 times:

Quoting Thomas_Jaeger (Reply 3):
As of now their schedule has the following long-haul frequencies in July for example:


There is an updated schedule for LOT here: http://airlineroute.net/2013/02/25/lo-787-s13cxld/
It shows the increase from 3 to 5 weekly to PEK being cancelled.

[Edited 2013-02-25 19:23:32]


SQ,MI,MH,CX,KA,CA,CZ,MU,KE,OZ,QF,NZ,FD,JQ,3K,5J,IT,AI,IC,QR,SK,LF,KL,AF,LH,LX,OS,SR,BA,SN,FR,WF,1I,5T,VZ,VX,AC,NW,UA,US,
User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8376 posts, RR: 7
Reply 9, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 11301 times:
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Quoting SXDFC (Reply 6):
Despite having the lack of $$$, is there anyway for LO to cancel their 788 order, get some sort of compensation from Boeing and put that $$$ towards A330s or another A/C that could help LO.

You don't make a 20 year purchasing decision because the "new" plane has a development problem. The A330 is not the panacea to all 787 ills, as somewant to believe.


User currently offlineAzure From France, joined Dec 2012, 626 posts, RR: 16
Reply 10, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 11115 times:

The 787 fiasco led LOT to extend the lease agreement for 3 767s and to lease 2 more for the summer season.
The remaining 3 787s out of the 6 ordered were expected to join the fleet before the summer...
Bad news for LOT which will announce a bailout plan in march...



I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things - A. de Saint Exupery
User currently offlineBOAC911 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 453 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 8981 times:
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Thanks for all the info. I suspected it had to be more than three 767s

User currently offlinewinstonlegthigh From United States of America, joined Nov 2012, 119 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 7909 times:

On the topic of LOT, something has been bothering me for quite a while: Sometime in the '90's we flew ORD to either WAW or KRK (pretty sure it was Warsaw though) - and I could have sworn that our plane had some sort of special livery. IIRC the navy/dark blue aspects of the standard livery were colorful. The white remained white. I've scoured Google for anything, but have had no luck. Any help?

A fond childhood memory of mine was being invited into the cockpit as we cruised over the Atlantic. Time has changed so much since then...



Never has gravity been so uplifting.
User currently offlineLO231 From Belgium, joined Sep 2004, 2392 posts, RR: 22
Reply 13, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 5332 times:

Quoting winstonlegthigh (Reply 12):

I believe LO had leased 767s from NZ during summer seasons, it was winter and low season in New Zealand...

I remember seeing kinda LO tail while the cheatline was from NZ... So you might have seen some light "greenish" colours of NZ livery at that time..

Regards,
LO231



Got both LO 788 frames already, next LO E95 and 734 BRU-WAW-BRU
User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4921 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 5281 times:

Quoting Polot (Reply 7):
The 787 issues will probably be sorted well before LOT could get any new A330s (Airbus doesn't really have those lying around)

Perhaps they can get their hands on the engineless ex-Kingfisher A332's which are sitting around @ ZRH...

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 9):
You don't make a 20 year purchasing decision because the "new" plane has a development problem. The A330 is not the panacea to all 787 ills, as somewant to believe.

Certainly solved the issue @ JQ but on the other hand now QF are probably going to be stuck with the B763 fleet for a while longer if the B787 grounding isn't resolved...

EK413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlinewinstonlegthigh From United States of America, joined Nov 2012, 119 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 4970 times:

Quoting LO231 (Reply 13):
I remember seeing kinda LO tail while the cheatline was from NZ... So you might have seen some light "greenish" colours of NZ livery at that time..

Regards,
LO231

That would make perfect sense, I'm glad I wasn't hallucinating. Thanks.



Never has gravity been so uplifting.
User currently offlinePolot From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 2190 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 4946 times:

Quoting EK413 (Reply 14):
Perhaps they can get their hands on the engineless ex-Kingfisher A332's which are sitting around @ ZRH...

Some of those are/were destined to go to Arik Air, but the deal may have fallen through. There is also the issue that LOT doesn't have trained A330 pilots or anything, so immediately adding A330s to the fleet (only to get rid of them when the 787 problems clear up) is not the best long term strategy.

Quoting winstonlegthigh (Reply 15):
That would make perfect sense, I'm glad I wasn't hallucinating. Thanks.

Was this it?:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Alastair T. Gardiner - WorldAirImages



Interestingly enough LOT ended up leasing one of their 767s to NZ around the turn of the century.


User currently offlinedtfg From China, joined Jan 2013, 75 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 4534 times:

Quoting Thomas_Jaeger (Reply 3):
SP-LPA had been temporarily on the ground and it was expected it would not fly again but obviously everything has changed now. They would have needed five B787-8s this summer if I interpret their schedule correctly, so with four B767-300ERs have a problem already. As of now their schedule has the following long-haul frequencies in July for example:
PEK: 5x weekly
ORD: 11x weekly
JFK: 11x weekly
YYZ: 8x weekly

Total of 35 weekly flights of 5 per day.

Originally they planned to add PEK to 5 weekly with new 787 but due to the delay of the aircraft they have cancelled the plan, and this route will still be operated by 767 on the 3 weekly basis before the arrival of their 787s.


User currently offlineLO231 From Belgium, joined Sep 2004, 2392 posts, RR: 22
Reply 18, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 4151 times:

Quoting EK413 (Reply 14):
Quoting winstonlegthigh (Reply 15):
Quoting Polot (Reply 16):

You are welcome, one of our friends posted picture of LO NZ 762, they used to exchange planes summer/winter seasons betwen Poland/New Zealand...



Got both LO 788 frames already, next LO E95 and 734 BRU-WAW-BRU
User currently offlineLO231 From Belgium, joined Sep 2004, 2392 posts, RR: 22
Reply 19, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 3945 times:

Please tell me they're not going bust........,


Got both LO 788 frames already, next LO E95 and 734 BRU-WAW-BRU
User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8816 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 3874 times:
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Quoting SXDFC (Reply 6):
Despite having the lack of $$$, is there anyway for LO to cancel their 788 order

Isn't LOT suspending 787 services until October?

Quoting PanAmPaul (Reply 17):
To the point of the 787 grounding on schedules, ANA, which launched multiple new routes including Seattle and San Jose with the Dreamliner, is cancelling them at least until the end of May completely.

LAN has cancelled all 787 services until July! It's unfortunate that the grounding of the 787s has caused numerous airlines to cancel new routes and has forced certain airlines to reduce frequencies on existing routes. However, certain airline(s) made the decision to rapidly phase out their B763s as soon as they received or planned to receive their 787s. These airline(s) knew that there would be "teething problems" with the 787s during the first few months as well. Luckily certain airline(s) had contingency plans in place before they even received their 787s and decided to use a conservative approach during their first year of 787 operations. Regardless, these airlines deserve and will most likely receive compensation for the grounding of the 787s. I would imagine that LOT will receive compensation for the grounding of their 787s; as well as for the delayed deliveries of the 787s that are sitting idle at KPAE.


User currently offlineBlueSky1976 From Poland, joined Jul 2004, 1885 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 3825 times:

Quoting LO231 (Reply 20):
Please tell me they're not going bust........,

If you are not mentally prepared for it yet, it's time to do it.



STOP TERRORRUSSIA!!!
User currently offlinekonrad From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 528 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 3823 times:

LOT took large risks as they put all their chicken in one basket.

To turn around the company they advertised their long-haul fleet renewal a lot. It was supposed to bring new quality and new, higher-yielding passengers to their services. Their fleet replacement plan was nothing but most ambitious. With the first dreamliner delivered in November and first european training flights starting in December they planned to have an all-dreamliner fleet of 5 aircraft operating from April on. The 767s were supposed to be gone by the end of March. No other airline introducing the dreamliner was planning on getting rid of all other long-haul planes in the process.

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 21):
I would imagine that LOT will receive compensation for the grounding of their 787s; as well as for the delayed deliveries of the 787s that are sitting idle at KPAE.

Perhaps, if they live long enough.

For now they are stuck with high leasing fees for the grounded dreamliners, plus parking fees for having one of them at ORD. Apart from that, they had to extend the leases for 20 year old 767s by 6 months being more or less at the mercy of the leasing companies. The 767 fleet is in no great shape since those aircraft were supposed to be gone and no investment has been made to keep them modern. No one wants to fly them apart from those who care about the low fare and nothing else. Also, the marketing effect of the european dreamtour of LOT is all gone.


User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8816 posts, RR: 5
Reply 23, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 3724 times:
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Quoting konrad (Reply 23):
No other airline introducing the dreamliner was planning on getting rid of all other long-haul planes in the process.

Indeed. LOT had the smallest wide-body fleet compared to the other 787 carriers, i.e. AI, ANA, JAL, LAN, UA, QR, and ET.

Quoting konrad (Reply 23):
Perhaps, if they live long enough.

Perhaps they will; if they don't I wonder which carrier(s) will receive their 6 787s?


User currently offlinePolot From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 2190 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 3618 times:

Quoting konrad (Reply 23):

LOT has gotten burned by the 787 pretty badly compared to other airlines, but even if things with the 787 went smoothly they probably would still be in rough shape. Unfortunately LOT is just a tiny intercontinental airline that has been squeezed out by growing competition in a weak global environment. Its tough to make that work, no matter what planes you are flying. LOT has been the airline "no one wants to fly ... apart from those who care about the low fare and nothing else" for a long time. The 787 might have helped a little, but it alone is never going to be the answer to LOT's issues.


25 LO231 : Ok, heartattack. I have to fly to WAW in July and Wizz and Ryanair are more expensive.....
26 BlueSky1976 : LO is having big promotion between 6th and 8th of March for tickets on all of their routes. If you are not afraid of being stranded in case they go un
27 mke717spotter : Realistically, what are the chances of this happening? At least it sounds like we may get some good news by the end of this week in regard to the 787
28 Post contains images LO231 : Hi, Just checked LOs website, no promotion, just regular fares
29 BlueSky1976 : Check again, the sale is taking place between 6th and 8th of March. Oh, and make sure you set the lot.com page to "Poland", I'm afraid it isn't availa
30 Post contains images LO231 : I know you're my favourite on LO news, but if I choose Poland, they don't give me prices from BRU....
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