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Rumor:New Dash 8-300  
User currently offlineacws777 From Canada, joined Oct 2010, 95 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 10 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 16826 times:

This is only a rumor, but I heard bombardier is looking to build or do a NG version for the dash 8-300. Anyone have any more information about this??

56 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLimaFoxTango From Antigua and Barbuda, joined Jun 2004, 808 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (1 year 10 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 16622 times:

Kinda late is that is true. Should've done that years ago.


You are said to be a good pilot when your take-off's equal your landings.
User currently offlinecrownvic From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1957 posts, RR: 5
Reply 2, posted (1 year 10 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 16469 times:

I never understood why Bombardier discontinued their entire Dash 8 line (aside from the Q400). With high fuel prices and limited airframe availability in this market, it never made sense to me. Not being involved internally at Bombardier, it is easy to not understand, but perhaps they just were not profiting enough to sustain the lines and preferred to focus on Q400 and CRJ production. Maybe they now realize with the discontinuation of smaller CRJ jets, there maybe an opportunity to turn back the clock.

User currently offlineCrj 900 From Canada, joined Mar 2001, 595 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (1 year 10 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 16377 times:

Well I have heard around our company (jazz) that our management has asked them to re-open the production line a few times...If they do, the aircraft needs to be more Of a Q400 shrink than the old 300. Actually a 40 seater would be better.

User currently offlineas739x From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6200 posts, RR: 24
Reply 4, posted (1 year 10 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 16273 times:

Quoting LimaFoxTango (Reply 1):
Kinda late is that is true. Should've done that years ago.

100% agree. I'd think it would get Skywest's attention to replace the EMB. From SFO there are many markets that just are to small for the RJ's.



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlinemesaflyguy From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 3353 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (1 year 10 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 16104 times:
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Quoting Crj 900 (Reply 3):

So, perhaps a Q-250? A -200 with an extra row of seating and better fuel efficiency?



\________(---)________/ :) World's most beautiful aircraft: 757-200, MD-88/90, E-190, A321
User currently offlineCrj 900 From Canada, joined Mar 2001, 595 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (1 year 10 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 16041 times:

40 ish seats, same cockpit cabin systems as the Q400, 5 or six blades, and a big wish would be drop down o2 and a service ceiling of 30k or so...... We operate the Q4 from yyz-yqm. In the winter with bad winds westbound can be a 3 hr flight....summer 2.5 hr. the ability to fly higher and get out of the crap would be great. Streaming media n wifi wud be awesome too...no need for tvs.ya a Q250 or maybe a Q500?

User currently offlineyyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16371 posts, RR: 56
Reply 7, posted (1 year 10 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 15884 times:

Quoting crownvic (Reply 2):
I never understood why Bombardier discontinued their entire Dash 8 line (aside from the Q400).

Lack of sales on the Q200/Q300.



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently online817Dreamliiner From Montserrat, joined Jul 2008, 2614 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (1 year 10 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 15629 times:

Quoting LimaFoxTango (Reply 1):
Kinda late is that is true. Should've done that years ago.

Agreed... Theyve pertty much lost that Market to ATR now...



Reality be Rent. Synapse, break! Vanishment, This World!
User currently offlineclydenairways From Ireland, joined Jan 2007, 1296 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 10 months 5 days ago) and read 15391 times:

They should have done this years ago, they have totally missed the boat in the last few years. The ending of the 50 seat regional jet boom was signaled years ago and it was clear that there was going to be a resurgence in turboprop aircraft.
ATR have had this market on a plate for years.


User currently offlinevfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 4062 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (1 year 10 months 5 days ago) and read 15274 times:

Wouldn't a Q400 shrink be much to much aircraft in the 40-50 seater category? Part of the success of the ATR72 is that a lot of customers do not need what the Q400 offers and are happy to settle with a much cheaper alternative. Wouldn't a Q400 shrink to 50 seats face the same problem when competing with the ATR42-600?

Anyway, the ATR42-600 isn't selling that well, so I am not sure if there is really big demand in the 50seater category (yet) that would make an offering by Bombardier viable. Almost all ATR sales are for the ATR72.


User currently offlineDash8Driver16 From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 95 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (1 year 10 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 12784 times:

i know there are a few airlines in the US that would be interested mainly PDT and Commut Air

User currently offlineacws777 From Canada, joined Oct 2010, 95 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 10 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 12693 times:

Quoting Crj 900 (Reply 3):

I just started at jazz and I was talking to someone about the dash 8 and he mentioned the same thing. They want to remain a Canadian supporter, so they are putting alot of pressure on bombardier.


User currently offlinewilliam From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 1355 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (1 year 10 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 12658 times:

Whats to prevent Embraer from restarting the EMB 120 line? A NG version.

User currently offlineLuftyMatt From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2009, 448 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 10 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 12578 times:

Makes sense to me. It could compete with the ATR 42, whilst the Q400 competes with ATR 72's.
As has been said already, I don't know why it's taken them this long.



chase the sun
User currently offlinevfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 4062 posts, RR: 5
Reply 15, posted (1 year 10 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 12103 times:

Quoting LuftyMatt (Reply 14):
It could compete with the ATR 42, whilst the Q400 competes with ATR 72's

I don't think that the Q400 and the ATR72 compete as much as many seem to believe. Isn't the Q400 approx. 50 per cent more expensive than the ATR72 and more attractive for airlines operating longer legs, whereas the ATR72 is more of a tradtional regional aircraft.

Quoting william (Reply 13):
Whats to prevent Embraer from restarting the EMB 120 line? A NG version.

Given that the ERJ135/140/145 are based on the EMB120, it would be interesting if a 40seat strecht would be feasible, given that there is no new aircraft on the market in the 20-40 seat category.


User currently offlinemesaflyguy From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 3353 posts, RR: 6
Reply 16, posted (1 year 10 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 11967 times:
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Quoting Dash8Driver16 (Reply 11):

Yes, especially with the -100s starting (continuing) to age. Would love tp see the little Dashes stay around. So much fun flying them from ISP to PHL.



\________(---)________/ :) World's most beautiful aircraft: 757-200, MD-88/90, E-190, A321
User currently offlineJBo From Sweden, joined Jan 2005, 2381 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 10 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 11885 times:

Quoting william (Reply 13):
Whats to prevent Embraer from restarting the EMB 120 line? A NG version.
Quoting vfw614 (Reply 15):
Given that the ERJ135/140/145 are based on the EMB120, it would be interesting if a 40seat strecht would be feasible, given that there is no new aircraft on the market in the 20-40 seat category.

The EMB-120 line has never technically been closed; they just aren't regularly producing airframes. The EMB-120 shares the same production line as the ERJs as they share a number of common components (i.e. fuselage). Embraer has produced a few one-off orders for the 120, mainly for military clients, after regular production of the aircraft ended.

It wouldn't be terribly difficult for Embraer to develop and upgraded Brasilia, though I don't know how easy it would be to stretch the airframe.



I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day.
User currently offlinekonrad From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 542 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (1 year 10 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 11885 times:

Quoting william (Reply 13):
Whats to prevent Embraer from restarting the EMB 120 line? A NG version.

I'd rather like to see the Saab 2000 line restarted with the original Saab 2000 50 seater and a 340NG in the 30pax category.


User currently offlinevfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 4062 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (1 year 10 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 11762 times:

Same problem I guess as with the Q400 - the Saab 2000 is too much of an aircraft for many potential customers who are looking for a 50 seater. While twenty years ago many 30-50 seaters were bought by subsidiaries of legacy carriers, nowadays it is more a market for true third level carriers.

User currently offlineAesma From Reunion, joined Nov 2009, 6963 posts, RR: 12
Reply 20, posted (1 year 10 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 11626 times:

Like many proposed aircraft, the question is : what engine ?


New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlinewingnutmn From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 653 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 10 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 11510 times:

50 seat prop with a comparable speed to a Q400 would be a good sell I would think with oil still at $90+ a barrel. The only way BBD could make this work though is to price it comparable to the ATR42. I think that carriers that fly the Q could all be interested in this plane. I definitely think speed though is the key to this planes success.

Wingnut



Any landing you can walk away from is a good landing! It's a bonus if you can fly the plane again!!
User currently offlinePolot From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 2374 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (1 year 10 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 11326 times:

Quoting 817Dreamliiner (Reply 8):
Agreed... Theyve pertty much lost that Market to ATR now...
Quoting clydenairways (Reply 9):
They should have done this years ago, they have totally missed the boat in the last few years. The ending of the 50 seat regional jet boom was signaled years ago and it was clear that there was going to be a resurgence in turboprop aircraft.

ATR42 sales in 2012: 3
ATR72 sales in 2012: 71

The turboprop aircraft are increasing. Not in the 40-50 seat market though. I'm not sure how a Q300NG would have more success than the ATR42 when the Q400 struggles to compete for orders with the ATR72.


User currently offlineplanemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 6456 posts, RR: 34
Reply 23, posted (1 year 10 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 10989 times:

Quoting yyz717 (Reply 7):
Lack of sales on the Q200/Q300.

The ERJ's "killed" them off (coupled with the fact that the smaller Dash were almost entirely built at Downsview.... unlike the Q400 which is only assembled there).

Quoting Crj 900 (Reply 3):
Well I have heard around our company (jazz) that our management has asked them to re-open the production line a few times...

They can't re-open the production line as it (and tooling) no longer physically exists.

Quoting konrad (Reply 18):
I'd rather like to see the Saab 2000 line restarted with the original Saab 2000 50 seater and a 340NG in the 30pax category.

Just as the ERJ's "killed" the Q300, the CRJ200 "killed" the Saab 2000.

Quoting clydenairways (Reply 9):
They should have done this years ago, they have totally missed the boat in the last few years.

There were several design studies 14 years ago of the Q500 based on the Q400 but the RJ market momentum "killed" the project.



Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
User currently offlineelbandgeek From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 759 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 10 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 10667 times:

I think with the rush to get rid of 50 seat RJs, a new 50 seat prop could do well. I wouldn't expect them to be ordered in as great of a number since the bulk of capacity is being taken over by 70-90 seaters but there's still plenty of markets that won't fill a CR7 and a Q300NG could be just the plane for those.

25 NorthStarDC4M : Bombardier said when they shut down the Q200/300 that the unique jigs and tooling (as in the ones not still used for Q400 production) would be disass
26 planemaker : With used RJ's selling for only $1-3.5 million with plentiful parts availability, and the availability of the 50-seat ATR there would be a limited ma
27 vfw614 : I guess the core question is when there will be sufficient demand in the 20 to 60-seat turboprop market again, demand that last existed in the 1980/19
28 SSTeve : Interesting. So any new 200/300 would truly be a Q400 shrink. I have to imagine the big question is whether they can get the price and operating cost
29 apruzesse13 : I think there is no Bombardier plan to produce a Q300NG, just a SB to retrofit a Q400-like cockpit on existing airframes
30 william : Embraer still has the tooling for the EMB120, it is techically still in the product catalog. SAAB? I am sure the production jigs were destroyed along
31 silentbob : This is why. The 200/300 was no longer profitable. Any new 50 seat model would have to be built using the same import and assemble methodology as the
32 acws777 : Would a combi dash 8-400 be feasible, especially for airlines looking to replace their 50 seaters.
33 silentbob : Maybe in the islands, where more cargo space can always be put to use, but not in the US.
34 Post contains images PC12Fan : You and me both. Something about the 2000 that I just find sexy, don't know why.
35 NorthStarDC4M : Depends on the airline... Not for Jazz for sure. Jazz needs (badly needs) a -100/-300 replacement... some of theirs are flipping ancient.
36 mjoelnir : The Dash 8 300 is used for maritime surveillance. Perhaps a few military or coastguard orders could reopen the production.
37 freeze3192 : I think you're right. CommutAir would definitely be interested even it's just for more second-hand frames that will be on the market if other airline
38 mjoelnir : I think it was the other way round. The 300 was the next version after the 100. A few years later they stuck the 300 engines on the 100 to make the 2
39 brilondon : There was no market, that is why they discontinued it. I don't know if there is a market now. There have always been aircraft in that niche, but obvi
40 Mainliner : I was told several times by PDT managers and instructors that a "shrunken" Q400 would not work because the costs of operating a smaller aircraft with
41 DeltaB717 : I don't know about other parts of the world but I know a shrink of the Q400 would be difficult for the likes of QF because some of the airports it ope
42 acws777 : definitely. On take offs I always worry they are going to fall apart
43 Dash8Driver16 : If you think the -300 is a dog you have never flown a -100. I love flying the -300 as it can take like you said a full boat I guess bigger engines can
44 m1m2 : The engines on the Dash 8-100 (PW120) each produce 2000 shp. The engines on the -300 (PW123) are each producing 2380 shp. I guess that extra horsepowe
45 bkircher : I still think that a Crj200ng would work the best. Just re-engine the 200 and upgrade a few things and right there you have a brand new aircraft that
46 ZKSUJ : More power is always good however it can struggle in the summer as you say. I think current Q300s just need slightly up-rated power plants and the Q4
47 vfw614 : Difficult to imagine airlines like Wideroe, LIAT or Air Niugini replacing their DHC8-100 with a CRJ200NG....Unlike US regionals, many airlines requir
48 LimaFoxTango : Unfortunately, LI went ATR. I say unfortunately because the Dash 8 is one sweet airplane.
49 silentbob : You're talking about the company that said that they got rid of the 200s because "they burned too much fuel" That said, a new 300 would need to have
50 multimark : Bombardier has left themsleves vulnerable by opening the door for ATR to place the 42 with customers like Jazz who can't make Q400's work for every r
51 Post contains images PlymSpotter : There is a huge upcoming market for a replacement aircraft in the 20-50 seat range, as existing types (J41, S340/2000, Dash 8-100/200/300, early ATR 4
52 Crj 900 : To be honest I was really hoping that Jazz would buy the ATR 600, both 42/72...... The Q is noisy and about 50% of the time, the NVS system is inop, i
53 silentbob : That will not happen in the US. With retirements, duty time/rest changes and higher minimums for hiring new first officers, I think you will see a ma
54 NorthStarDC4M : There will also be a return of more Part 135 operators in some markets. But yes that will be the end result. The jump will be Caravan/C402 to 70 seat
55 Post contains images PlymSpotter : It doesn't need to. With one or two exceptions the US market isn't remotely key for such an aircraft. Dan
56 flyinryan99 : I think you're already seeing it. A lot of my clients are bursting at the seems with Charter / Part 135 work right now. Lack of flying to small/midsi
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