aacun From Mexico, joined Jan 2004, 434 posts, RR: 2 Posted (2 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 9950 times:
I read an inside newsletter today that states AA's Miami new upcoming service to be
MIA-FDF B738
MIA-PTP B738
(Which were already announced)
MIA-CWB-POA-MIA B763
(We finally know equipment and routing)
MIA-GEO B738
MIA-PBM B738
Once this is confirmed, will AA be the first Airline to serve every country in North, Central and South America? If we throw in the Caribbean, of course Cuba is left out ( charters dont count). Aside from Cuba, which Islands that are currently receiving some sort of airline service are not served by AA or Eagle? Or Seaborn/Cape Air for that matter since they will be code sharing with AA soon.
IrishAyes From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1731 posts, RR: 5 Reply 3, posted (2 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 9602 times:
[quote=LAXdude1023,reply=1 Did they say anything about DFW-BOG and what equipment and schedule would be?[/quote]
Ditto. I want to know concrete information about this route, before we de-rail into topics about LAN/TAM/LATAM codeshares/routes until the DFW-BOG and new MIA routes are addressed. Thx.
mah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 31118 posts, RR: 73 Reply 5, posted (2 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 9350 times:
Suppoesdly 3x weekly each to Paramaribo and Georgetown starting in the fall. But not quite official just yet. I had heard AA was considering serving them in a triangle.
MIAGEO and MIAPBM are both about 40 PDEW, but the majority of Georgetown demand comes from Broward. MIA-PBM has no non-stop service, as Surinam Airways has always opted to serve it via a third point. Currently Surinam Airways flies MIA-AUA-PBM 3w and MIA-GEO-PBM 2w. The fares are sky high to Surinam, though. Could be a goldmine. Guyana, not as easy.
As it is part of France, it is still technically correct that AA will serve every country in South America (and Latin America for that matter; as Cuba is served with scheduled charters to Havana, Cienfuegos, Santiago and Holguin).
Quoting aacun (Thread starter): Aside from Cuba, which Islands that are currently receiving some sort of airline service are not served by AA or Eagle? Or Seaborn/Cape Air for that matter since they will be code sharing with AA soon.
Among independent countries, just Dominica (which will have Seabourne take over) and St. Vincent & The Grenadines.
However, AA is studying service to DOM with its own planes from Miami, and the new airport in St. Vincent, which I believe opens late this year, has a runway long enough for (and designed to attract) non-stops to Miami.
2travel2know2 From Panama, joined Apr 2010, 2012 posts, RR: 1 Reply 8, posted (2 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 8926 times:
If AA is to start GEO and PBM, then the only South American countries not served by AA will be French Guiana and Falkland Islands (Islas Malvinas).
Now that DL has left JFK-GEO maybe AA could do a JFK-GEO-MIA-GEO-JFK rotation w/B737-800 3-4 days per week.
DCAJet From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 367 posts, RR: 5 Reply 10, posted (2 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 8629 times:
Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 8): If AA is to start GEO and PBM, then the only South American countries not served by AA will be French Guiana and Falkland Islands (Islas Malvinas).
.
The Falkland Islands are not a country. They are a British Overseas Territory.
"Unattended children will be given espresso and a free kitten"
rwsea From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 3017 posts, RR: 2 Reply 11, posted (2 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 8568 times:
Quoting SFOJFK (Reply 9): PBM and all of Suriname have links to the Netherlands. Wonder if this could spark an AA flight to AMS from MIA.
PMB is already served daily from AMS on both KLM and Suriname Airways. I suppose AA could pick up some traffic, but the market already has plenty of nonstop service. I doubt anyone would go through the hassle of transferring at MIA (or getting a US visa) unless the cost savings were substantial (and thus meaning AA's yields aren't good).
Nostromopilot From Mexico, joined Feb 2013, 11 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (2 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 8300 times:
This appears to be unprecedented and quite an achievement for a singular airline to fly (if rumors prove truthful) to every country on a continent/region. Are we still hearing Cordoba, Argentina at some point?
The only other historical examples of an airline coming remotely close to this would possibly be (soviet) Aeroflot flying to literally everywhere in its area (USSR) and/or TWA and Pan Am flying to about every country in Europe in the 1970s or Sabena flying to just about everywhere in Africa.
Is SA really the only place where this is even feasible?
HPRamper From United States of America, joined May 2005, 3664 posts, RR: 8 Reply 13, posted (2 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 8172 times:
Quoting Nostromopilot (Reply 12): Is SA really the only place where this is even feasible?
Flying to every country in Europe seems like it shouldn't be too difficult given the relatively small distances involved although small countries like Andorra and Monaco could complicate the attempt. South America seems like even more of a feat because it's a carrier from North America flying from distant hubs.
yellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 5164 posts, RR: 2 Reply 15, posted (2 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 7237 times:
MIA-GEO B738
MIA-PBM B738
All good unless BW decides to start GEO - MIA with a Gov't fuel subsidy
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
Byrdluvs747 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2148 posts, RR: 1 Reply 19, posted (2 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 4758 times:
Quoting Max Q (Reply 14): The Falklands are not part of South America, that was assured in 1982.
Thats like saying that the former British Honduras(Belize) wasnt part of central america simply due to English rule.
British governance is irrelevant, the Falklands sit on the South American tectonic plate so they are geologically part of South America.
The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
qf002 From Australia, joined Jul 2011, 2557 posts, RR: 1 Reply 20, posted (2 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 4638 times:
Quoting Nostromopilot (Reply 12): This appears to be unprecedented and quite an achievement for a singular airline to fly (if rumors prove truthful) to every country on a continent/region. Are we still hearing Cordoba, Argentina at some point?
The only other historical examples of an airline coming remotely close to this would possibly be (soviet) Aeroflot flying to literally everywhere in its area (USSR) and/or TWA and Pan Am flying to about every country in Europe in the 1970s or Sabena flying to just about everywhere in Africa.
Is SA really the only place where this is even feasible?
Depending in how you define the continent, it would be easy to argue that any airline that flies down here serves every country on the Australian continent.
jumpjets From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2012, 471 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (2 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 4382 times:
The Falklands are an interesting case given the forthcoming referendum on March 10/11 concerning the islands future 'ownership'. The UK ownership is disputed by Argentina, so two possible sovereignties to consider going forward.
If British sovereignty continues then the islands are covered as part of the UK via the AA flights to mainland GB.
If, unlikely as it seems, the Falklanders vote against being British and presumably would then join Argentina then the islands are covered by AAs flight to mainline Argentina, eg EZE.
If the Falklanders decide to be totally independent of any other country then the route planners at AA better get their globes out, find out where the islands are, and send a 757 down there pronto - and if they really wanted to be sneaky they could put Mount Pleasant on as an add on to their flights to EZE....
PS At the moment international flights comprise, I believe, a weekly flight A320 by LAN from Santiago and ad hoc flights from RAF Brize Norton [England] operated by the UK Ministry of defence and open to civilian travellers.
A388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9077 posts, RR: 13 Reply 24, posted (2 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3138 times:
Quoting mah4546 (Reply 5): Suppoesdly 3x weekly each to Paramaribo and Georgetown starting in the fall. But not quite official just yet. I had heard AA was considering serving them in a triangle.
Interesting, is this the first route in the region that AA wants to serve in a triangle? To my knowledge all their flights in the region are nonstop flights, is that correct?
Meanwhile, I'm still hoping AA will increase capacity to CUR as they have been flying full on both daily flights for a long time now and their fares aren't the cheapest. Even if AA can't introduce a third daily 738 flight, maybe replace one of the flights with a 757 on a daily basis or 3 times a week? I think they can fill the extra capacity.
mah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 31118 posts, RR: 73 Reply 25, posted (2 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3288 times:
Quoting A388 (Reply 24): Interesting, is this the first route in the region that AA wants to serve in a triangle? To my knowledge all their flights in the region are nonstop flights, is that correct?
Don't think it will be a triangle. Independent flights to each; but honestly a triangle routing would not shock me.
As for triangles in the region, MIA-LPB-VVI-MIA is a triangle, but La Paz simply can't handle a non-stop flight to Miami, so the plane needs to stop somewhere.
SSA and REC were served MIA-SSA-REC-MIA until this past November, when they got independent non-stops.
New service to CWB and POA, launching in November, will be a triangle MIA-CWB-POA-MIA.
BW will not likely do GEO MIA nonstop. If AA does this they definitely will not be stupid enough to try it.
Dont know if you know this but Guyana does NOT provide BW with a fuel subsidy so should not be held responsible for this.
Note that AA does quite well with 2xDaily MIA POS service so clearly the fuel subsidy isnt a factor. So why should it be for GEO service? This fuel subsidy excuse is way over rated.
AA is a strong brand, and MIA is a fortress hub, and so can easily take on BW so the fuel subsidy issue is irrelevant.
In any case as I understand it BW has to pay full price for fuel and then gets reimbursed when the Govt of T&T sees fit. I am fairly sure that BW does NOT get good credit terms from its suppliers given its financial problems.
Given the way govts work I am sure that BW cannot predict when such payments will be received, and will have to cover all their costs in the interim.
You will be on stronger ground if yoiu claim that BW is allowed to pay landing and other govt related fees when they feel like and now owe millions in travel taxes and airport fees to the T&T govt and related authorities.
Very unlikely a BW MIA GEO as this is very light compared to JFK and even YYZ. This is definitely not a route for two carriers and AA wins hands down with this as they can offer connection to people traveling to/from cities like ATL and DC which have decent sized Guyanese populations.
ANy case you know full well that many ex colonial people will always swear on the bible that anything out of North America or Europe will always be better than some "inferior nonsense" from the Caribbean. Basically the global carriers almost fully control their passengers and then battle with the Caribbean carriers for our folks. Just note theiur usually docile acceptance of AA when they offer service that can be every bit as painful as that of BWIA and Air Jam in their days.
Dont see how a triangle will work as AAs best advantage to GEO and PBM ex MIA will be its connections from other parts of the USA, and even Canada. The traffic isnt that heavy to begin with so it will depend highly on feeder traffic.
A rule of thumb is that any route which doesnt work intop POS will not into GEO. So if AA doesnt want to challenge BW on the JFK POS then they definitely will not on the JFK GEO. In any case they have been dropping service to the Caribbean freom JFK in recent years, with even the lucrative JFK Dom Rep routes now gone from April.
OB1504 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2967 posts, RR: 8 Reply 28, posted (2 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 2949 times:
Quoting guyanam (Reply 27): In any case they have been dropping service to the Caribbean freom JFK in recent years, with even the lucrative JFK Dom Rep routes now gone from April.
Are they really that lucrative if AA is dropping them?
Lucrative as defined by volume though not necessarily yield as B6 is killing them.
Islands with nonstop AA service from JFK are PAP,SJU,STT,SKB,ANU and BGI, with SXM getting seasonal service. Aside from SJU and BGI (and arguably STT) , the markets with year round service are relatively small, or problematic as the case with PAP.
Do not know what AAs plans are for the JFK BGI, given that they compete against B6 on that route.
ikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21029 posts, RR: 60 Reply 30, posted (2 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 2885 times:
Quoting jumpjets (Reply 22): The Falklands are an interesting case given the forthcoming referendum on March 10/11 concerning the islands future 'ownership'. The UK ownership is disputed by Argentina, so two possible sovereignties to consider going forward.
If British sovereignty continues then the islands are covered as part of the UK via the AA flights to mainland GB.
If, unlikely as it seems, the Falklanders vote against being British and presumably would then join Argentina then the islands are covered by AAs flight to mainline Argentina, eg EZE.
If the Falklanders decide to be totally independent of any other country then the route planners at AA better get their globes out, find out where the islands are, and send a 757 down there pronto - and if they really wanted to be sneaky they could put Mount Pleasant on as an add on to their flights to EZE....
PS At the moment international flights comprise, I believe, a weekly flight A320 by LAN from Santiago and ad hoc flights from RAF Brize Norton [England] operated by the UK Ministry of defence and open to civilian travellers.
All very interesting, but they are not currently a country, just a place. AA never claims to fly to every place in South America, but every country. They don't fly to every region, county, city, etc. in South America either.
If they were to vote for independence, then maybe, but even then, one has to wonder whether a group of 3000 people calling themselves a nation makes it so in the 21st century.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
mah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 31118 posts, RR: 73 Reply 31, posted (2 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 2815 times:
Quoting guyanam (Reply 29): Aside from SJU and BGI (and arguably STT) , the markets with year round service are relatively small, or problematic as the case with PAP.
Small? No. NYCSXM, NYCPAP and NYCSTT are all larger than NYCBGI, but even NYCBGI is a very large local market.
Problematic? You fly a plane to PAP and fly it out. AA does it seven times a day to three cities at sky high fares. Simple and not problematic.
Quoting guyanam (Reply 29): o not know what AAs plans are for the JFK BGI, given that they compete against B6 on that route.
Pretty sure the plan is simple: continue flying JFKBGI. Two daily flights and 230 daily passengers each way? Huge market, underserved, profitable and great J class demand that B6 does not cater to.
Max Q From United States of America, joined May 2001, 3290 posts, RR: 19 Reply 32, posted (2 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 2590 times:
Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 19):
British governance is irrelevant, the Falklands sit on the South American tectonic plate so they are geologically part of South America.
Er, being on the same tectonic plate does not mean you are politically part of an adjacent continent !
And believe me, British Government is extremely relevant, as is the pro British democratic falkland island population.
Many lives were lost upholding that legitimacy.
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
A388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9077 posts, RR: 13 Reply 33, posted (2 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 2303 times:
Quoting guyanam (Reply 27): Dont see how a triangle will work as AAs best advantage to GEO and PBM ex MIA will be its connections from other parts of the USA, and even Canada. The traffic isnt that heavy to begin with so it will depend highly on feeder traffic.
Just to clarify, I didn't say that AA will do a triangular routing, but mah4546 did and he already said that such a routing is unlikely to happen.
Regarding the new MIA-FDF and MIA-PTP routes, will these be profitable? Is demand to these destinations big or bigger than MIA-PBM and MIA-GEO or do they more potential then PBM and GEO?
mah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 31118 posts, RR: 73 Reply 34, posted (2 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 2162 times:
Quoting A388 (Reply 33): Regarding the new MIA-FDF and MIA-PTP routes, will these be profitable? Is demand to these destinations big or bigger than MIA-PBM and MIA-GEO or do they more potential then PBM and GEO?
FDF/PTP are Small markets (around 15 PDEW each to Miami, the largest mainland local market from both), but outstanding yield.
2travel2know2 From Panama, joined Apr 2010, 2012 posts, RR: 1 Reply 35, posted (2 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 2081 times:
Quoting mah4546 (Reply 34): FDF/PTP are Small markets (around 15 PDEW each to Miami, the largest mainland local market from both), but outstanding yield.
Mainland as mainland U.S.A.?
I'd think numbers between FDF/PTP and YUL; FDF/PTP and CAY (mainland Americas) are higher.
A388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9077 posts, RR: 13 Reply 36, posted (2 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 2021 times:
Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 35): Quoting mah4546 (Reply 34):
FDF/PTP are Small markets (around 15 PDEW each to Miami, the largest mainland local market from both), but outstanding yield.
Mainland as mainland U.S.A.?
I'd think numbers between FDF/PTP and YUL; FDF/PTP and CAY (mainland Americas) are higher.
Thanks for the replies mah4546 and 2travel2know2. AA can indeed be an option for traffic between Canada and these islands but I think AC already flies to these islands already. I just don't know how frequently and whether it is seasonal or year round.
FoxBravo From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2806 posts, RR: 5 Reply 37, posted (2 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 1995 times:
Quoting mah4546 (Reply 34):
FDF/PTP are Small markets (around 15 PDEW each to Miami, the largest mainland local market from both), but outstanding yield.
Just curious, what drives the high yields to these islands? There isn't much high-end tourism from the US and I can't imagine there is much business traffic either.
A388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9077 posts, RR: 13 Reply 38, posted (2 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 1968 times:
Quoting FoxBravo (Reply 37): Just curious, what drives the high yields to these islands? There isn't much high-end tourism from the US and I can't imagine there is much business traffic either.
Maybe the fact that they use the Euro as their local currency, being a French overseas territory.
BoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 2312 posts, RR: 7 Reply 39, posted (2 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 1973 times:
So SA)">AA is applying for ORD-GRU and LAX-GRU. What's next? When does COR come? What other secondary SA markets could support SA)">AA service? Sounds like CUZ won't come back on SA)">AA metal.
My money is on COR next. What about MDZ or SLA with an SA)">AA 757?
MIA PTP and MIA FDF are quite likely to be booked out by the Club Med and other package deals. The same folks who currentky use AE out of SJU. I would wonder about how profitable the Seaborne service from SJU will be once these passengers are routed through MIA.
AAs MIA GEO can work, but it will require feed from interior points in the USA. Quite a few Guyanese live in the DC and ATL areas and will definitely use this service. In fact I suspect that PY will be squeezed out as it lacks the feed.
Indeed I suspect that those Guyanese who use DL, because they hate BW, might even endure the great inconvenience of using AA via MIA, especially if the fares are competitive.
So I do believe that MIA GEO will work for AA as they squeeze PY out, and snatch business from BW (even the folks who live close to FLL and who currently use their services via POS).
I believe that I said ASIDE from STT, PAP and SJU. JFK SXM is seasonal. I specifically referenced YEAR round service. AA has no interest in batting B6 into JFK SXM in non peak periods.
The fact that AA has the PAP market almost to themselves is because others are afraid of the security, political and other challenges of operating in Haiti. Its not just the plan but setting up local operations, even if its is merely managers to oversee local contractors. B6 would be a candidate with their well developed FLL and JFK markets, both packed with Haitians. So why doesnt B6 seem to be looking at Haiti? They are doing very well into MBJ/KIN, an into many Dom Rep airports, even their new Samana route.
NYC BGI and NYC STT have similar capacity. Both daily AA with BGI getting daily B6 and STT getting virtually daily UA. They seem to be similar sized markets, just that BGI has more of the VFR which is usually less price sensitive than the leisure, even if less lucrative than the business market. But I do know that in soft periods B6 cuts their fares quite low and that AA must match them. Hence my query as to how long AA will tolerta ethis, given that they havent in the considerably larger DR market.
Byrdluvs747 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2148 posts, RR: 1 Reply 41, posted (2 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1754 times:
Quoting Max Q (Reply 32): And believe me, British Government is extremely relevant, as is the pro British democratic falkland island population.
Still doesn't remove the fact that the Falklands are part of South America. Just as British Honduras is was part of central america. The british flag doesn't change geography or geology.
Quoting Max Q (Reply 32): Many lives were lost upholding that legitimacy.
Many British lives were lost in the Boer Wars as well, yet South Africa is still part of Africa.
The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
Here is the difference between S Africa and Falklands. Most of the people who live in the latter are of British extraction, and desire to remain a British territory. Argentine claims to the Falklands are as valid as exclusive claims by Native Americans to North America.
Byrdluvs747 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2148 posts, RR: 1 Reply 44, posted (2 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 1205 times:
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