Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
UA/CO And AA/US At ATL  
User currently offlineckfred From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 5067 posts, RR: 1
Posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 6115 times:

With the merger of AA and US, it appears that either AA or UA has to move at ATL. AA and UA were on Concourse T before their respective mergers (AA 9-12 and UA 13-15). CO was on D, along with US.

Since the UA/CO merger, UA has a split operation. Flights to PMUA hubs depart out of T. Flights to PMCO hubs depart out of D.

I think that US and UA each has 3 gates on D.

So, who winds up moving? It's been a while since I've been to ATL, but it seemed that AA was was running a very full operation out of its gates. Trying to run a full AA/US operation out of 6 gates on D might be problematic, if the weather starts to throw flights off schedule.

Obviously, no one wants to leave T. It's a pain to go through the main security checkpoint and ride the train to D. And Delta isn't about to give up gates on T and let it's two legacy rivals have the close gates.

30 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinedavescj From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 2292 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 6015 times:

AA has a decent number of gates at ATL. They do a mix of AA and AE. I think it will come down to usage. I don't thinke US has much of an operation. Since the AAdmiral Lounge is at T-10, I suspect they would prefer to keep the gates in T and keep the Lounge where is is.

Dave



Can I have a mojito on this flight?
User currently offlineFriendlySkies From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 4091 posts, RR: 5
Reply 2, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 5917 times:

The other hangup in any potential move is AA's dedicated baggage claim. Sadly, I think UA is going to end up back in D when it's all said and done. Too bad the airport authority can't muscle DL out of 3 gates on T, considering they own the rest of the airport...

User currently offlinedavescj From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 2292 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 5881 times:

I doubt DL is willing to give up anything in ATL. They want it all......I think when the Soutwest and Airtran merger goes through a couple gates could open up. Maybe the "new" United will move there? And AA could take over the gates in T that UA currently has.

Dave



Can I have a mojito on this flight?
User currently offlineckfred From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 5067 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 5785 times:

Quoting davescj (Reply 3):
And AA could take over the gates in T that UA currently has.

The irony is that when AA moved from D to T, shortly after Concourse E opened before the 1996 Summer Olympics, it had gates 9 through 14. At some point, HP had a gate or two on the end. Then, United moved in, replacing HP on the concourse, and added another jet bridge to create gate 15.

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 2):
The other hangup in any potential move is AA's dedicated baggage claim.

I would assume that whichever carrier gets the north end of T gets the dedicated baggage claim.


User currently offlinejporterfi From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 425 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 5706 times:

Quoting davescj (Reply 3):

I can't see WN giving up any gates at the moment. If enough FL routes are dropped and not replaced with WN service, maybe. I foresee UA and US basically swapping gates at T and D, though I agree that, if the flights are timed well, US/AA might be fine with AA's existing 3-gate operation.

Quoting ckfred (Reply 4):

AA will probably fight tooth and nail to keep its baggage claim and T gate operation.

Quoting davescj (Reply 1):

US has about 18 flights per day out of ATL, and has 3 gates in D.


User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7276 posts, RR: 52
Reply 6, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 5673 times:

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 2):
Too bad the airport authority can't muscle DL out of 3 gates on T, considering they own the rest of the airport...

Why don't they give UA gates in D? Why should UA get T? DL does practically own the airport which is why I think ATL would be nicer to DL. In the end, I don't think anyone is going to get muscled by the airport, either UA will keep T and a split operation or DL will give them D gates and let them be in one place... I highly highly doubt DL would give up T gates



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineCODC10 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2356 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 5632 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 6):
Why don't they give UA gates in D? Why should UA get T? DL does practically own the airport which is why I think ATL would be nicer to DL. In the end, I don't think anyone is going to get muscled by the airport, either UA will keep T and a split operation or DL will give them D gates and let them be in one place... I highly highly doubt DL would give up T gates

I think the issue is whether AA gives up its gates and lounge on T and moves to D while UA(CO) gives up its gates and lounge on D and moves to T, or AA(US) gives up its gates on D and moves to T while UA gives up its gates on T and moves to D.

I too doubt DL would need to relinquish T gates, but it is a bit of an oddball operation given how much contiguous real estate Delta has elsewhere in the terminal.


User currently offlineNorthStarDC4M From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 2951 posts, RR: 37
Reply 8, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 5538 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
CHAT OPERATOR

I don't think UA or AA will move out of T... UA has managed a split op just fine so far, and truth be told it's not a connection point for UA or AA so the split operation is of minimal passenger impact. Now IF US and AA can find some way of shoehorning themselves into the existing 4 T gates for AA they might do that and give up D, but I doubt it, UA certainly can't get all their flights out of 3 gates on T.
I think AA might be able to shoehorn in one more RJ sized stand on T?



Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7276 posts, RR: 52
Reply 9, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 5527 times:

Quoting CODC10 (Reply 7):
but it is a bit of an oddball operation given how much contiguous real estate Delta has elsewhere in the terminal.

They are very convenient gates and, IIRC, a lot of business flights go out of T. Plus, part of it is undoubtedly trying to prevent competitors from having something better and convenient for them. And one more thing, D is IMO the worst concourse there, very narrow and still seems rundown (even after the remodeling) so that probably fuels the decision.



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineDualQual From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 732 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 5479 times:

You all are waaayyyyy overthinking this. UA will go to whatever gates cost the least. That will likely be D. UA seems to be all about cost these days.

User currently offlineFriendlySkies From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 4091 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 5447 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 9):
Plus, part of it is undoubtedly trying to prevent competitors from having something better and convenient for them.

Given the absurdly huge presence of DL in ATL, I highly doubt moving out of T would have any impact whatsoever on their business travel. I don't expect DL to give up anything, or AA, or UA. Something's going to give though, it's ridiculous that AA and UA would continue to have split operations.

The end result will involve money changing hands. It's anyone's guess who is willing to pay more for those gates though, given UA/CO's cheap nature post-merger and the incoming US management team's history of penny pinching.


User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6386 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 5421 times:

Also, DL's T gates are capable of handling widebodies, and can be used when needed for departing international flights when there is no space available at Concourse E or F.


The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently offlineJONC777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 125 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 5383 times:

Quoting jporterfi (Reply 5):
I can't see WN giving up any gates at the moment. If enough FL routes are dropped and not replaced with WN service, maybe. I foresee UA and US basically swapping gates at T and D, though I agree that, if the flights are timed well, US/AA might be fine with AA's existing 3-gate operation.

Leases for wn's atl gates come up in 2014 and theres a high chance wn will simply be in the 1/2 of of the c gates. Lots of time between now and then .. . but thats what the rumor mill is saying these days.


User currently offlinecokepopper From United States of America, joined May 2008, 1167 posts, RR: 10
Reply 14, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 5372 times:

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 2):
Too bad the airport authority can't muscle DL out of 3 gates on T, considering they own the rest of the airport...

Or better yet, Delta gives up gates in D and take over all of T....simple


User currently offlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6579 posts, RR: 32
Reply 15, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 5265 times:

Quoting NorthStarDC4M (Reply 8):
UA has managed a split op just fine so far, and truth be told it's not a connection point for UA or AA so the split operation is of minimal passenger impact.

There is some impact in that the United Club is the former CO Presidents Club on the D concourse, so the club ends up being of little use to anyone headed to the pmUA hubs. Similarly, the Admirals Club on T won't be conveniently located to the US gates on D.

Quoting CODC10 (Reply 7):
I too doubt DL would need to relinquish T gates, but it is a bit of an oddball operation given how much contiguous real estate Delta has elsewhere in the terminal.

The T gates held by DL are valuable for their location as well as their ability to handle widebodies. It's no more odd than DL's gates on D.


User currently offlinestrfyr51 From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 792 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 5206 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting DualQual (Reply 10):

I don't know if any of you remember BUT UA was already on the D concourse before Delta closed the Dallas Hub and moved Hundreds of flights to ATL. It would make PERFECT sense for United to move back to 'D' to be alongside of the CO gates and for USAIR to move to T to be with American. BUT !! that all depends on the Airport And The 800 lb Gorrilla at ATL, DELTA. Y'think??


User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7276 posts, RR: 52
Reply 17, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 5193 times:

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 11):
Given the absurdly huge presence of DL in ATL, I highly doubt moving out of T would have any impact whatsoever on their business travel.

...which means DL should give T gates to UA? Why would they do that? What's in it for DL? To be nice?

What's in it for the airport? To piss off DL? Make UA's small operation better and to interfere with the normal gate exchanges carriers have made in the past? Why don't they force consolidate WN's operation while they're at it.

This same ATL that wouldn't just "muscle a few gates" out of DL and incentivize WN to start service, pre-merger

Quoting cokepopper (Reply 14):
Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 2):
Too bad the airport authority can't muscle DL out of 3 gates on T, considering they own the rest of the airport...

Or better yet, Delta gives up gates in D and take over all of T....simple

Yeah, for real, makes just as much sense one way or the other. Of course, DL would prefer the T gates and UA would also prefer the T gates, aka conflict and the reason why no exchange has happened. Simple.

DL and ATL have a healthy relationship, understandably. I doubt ATL is gonna do something nice for UA and (even remotely) bad for DL just to make United smile a bit and to calm some people's OCD. UA pax travelling from D to T is no where near as bad (or in the same volumes) as DL pax going from T to C to F to B etc



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 18, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 5134 times:

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 2):

United will be consolidating on T. That's already written in the new gating contract.



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlinejmc1975 From Israel, joined Sep 2000, 3242 posts, RR: 15
Reply 19, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 5119 times:

Quoting jporterfi (Reply 5):
though I agree that, if the flights are timed well, US/AA might be fine with AA's existing 3-gate operation.

What?!?!?!?!? So, are you making the assumption that delays and irregular operations will NEVER happen? Are you assuming the combined airline will be spreading out their schedule evenly over a 24-hour day? From ATL, the combined airline will have fifty (50) daily flights to DFW, CLT, MIA, PHL, LGA, ORD & PHX.

Quoting CODC10 (Reply 7):
I think the issue is whether AA gives up its gates and lounge on T and moves to D while UA(CO) gives up its gates and lounge on D and moves to T, or AA(US) gives up its gates on D and moves to T while UA gives up its gates on T and moves to D.

Would it not be more cost-effective for both carriers to swap gates and consolidate their operations and resources rather than to change the locations of their lounges and front the costs of renovation among other expenditures that come with it? With the given sceanrio, AA/US consolidating at T, while UA/CO consolidating in D seem to be a no-brainer.

Quoting NorthStarDC4M (Reply 8):
UA has managed a split op just fine so far, and truth be told it's not a connection point for UA or AA so the split operation is of minimal passenger impact.

Keep in mind that "just fine so far" is by no means a successful long-term strategy. It will ultimately be of utmost importance to have an operation where each carrier can optimize their own efficiencies.



.......
User currently offlineFriendlySkies From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 4091 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4987 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 17):
...which means DL should give T gates to UA? Why would they do that? What's in it for DL? To be nice?

Nothing's in it for DL. Just like nothing's in it for UA or AA to give up their gates. But somebody is going to have to.

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 18):
United will be consolidating on T. That's already written in the new gating contract.

Do you have more details? Seems this might answer the original thread question, unless UA is somehow consolidating all flights into 3 gates (considering all of their flights are RJs these days, might be possible...)


User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7276 posts, RR: 52
Reply 21, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4934 times:

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 20):
Nothing's in it for DL. Just like nothing's in it for UA or AA to give up their gates. But somebody is going to have to.

They do? Who says they do? Split operations are not impossible, and if both sides can't agree to something, the status quo will stay

Though I think our debate may be moot, I would also like to see what FlyASAGuy2005 says



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineAADC10 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2016 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4884 times:

Quoting ScottB (Reply 15):
There is some impact in that the United Club is the former CO Presidents Club on the D concourse, so the club ends up being of little use to anyone headed to the pmUA hubs.

UA used to have a small Red Carpet Club in T that closed several years ago. The last time I went by, the space was still empty, so if that is still the case, UA could consolidate in T and reopen the old RCC space as a United Club, although it might be too small.


User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 23, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 4830 times:

Quoting davescj (Reply 1):
I don't thinke US has much of an operation.

Actually, you'd be surprised. US is fairly busy out of Atlanta and usually have 5 or 6 a/c that RON that require them to park on E.

Quoting jmc1975 (Reply 19):
From ATL, the combined airline will have fifty (50) daily flights to DFW, CLT, MIA, PHL, LGA, ORD & PHX.
DL manages about the same level of flights out of RDU with 4 gates however Terminal 2 is CUTE. BUT, they use the same gates every day.

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 20):
Do you have more details? Seems this might answer the original thread question, unless UA is somehow consolidating all flights into 3 gates (considering all of their flights are RJs these days, might be possible...)

There's a project that was already approved to add 2 (smaller) gates to T North at which time United will surrender their 3 gates on D south. Those gates will become city gates.

[Edited 2013-02-26 16:13:11]


What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5815 posts, RR: 9
Reply 24, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 4790 times:

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 23):
Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 20):
Do you have more details? Seems this might answer the original thread question, unless UA is somehow consolidating all flights into 3 gates (considering all of their flights are RJs these days, might be possible...)

There's a project that was already approved to add 2 (smaller) gates to T North at which time United will surrender their 3 gates on D south. Those gates will become city gates.

Makes sense as most of UAs flights out of ATL are on RJs at this point....any word if they plan on reopening the United Club on T?



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
25 FlyASAGuy2005 : They would be at a competitive disadvantage if they didn't. (i'm only assuming they will I haven't see something on paper that said they would or wou
26 HPRamper : It's interesting to me that with all the consolidation, we are at a point now where almost every major airport (not just hubs or focus cities) could
27 jporterfi : I said might. I actually had some doubt about that when posting the reply, and did not think about potential for delays. I also did not know what the
28 FlyASAGuy2005 : All the 900 gates are striped for 170s although not one has ever been parked over there as far as I know. Those would be C32, C33, C38, C39 C44, C45,
29 vgnatl747 : I asked this very question in ATL yesterday. It sounded like UA's intent is to move all operations to T and open a United Club in T. While that remai
30 davescj : I suspect pmUA it was more than enough space. Remember, CO was not in star long before the merger. While CO was in ST, members could have gone to Cro
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
AA, DL, UA, CO And NW's Future Fleets posted Wed Jun 20 2001 20:53:13 by Boeing747-400
AA 763 At ATL posted Mon Jan 23 2012 11:54:58 by captainstefan
UA/CO And NH Get Final DOT ATI Clearance. posted Wed Nov 10 2010 17:28:30 by United1
The New United (UA+CO) And Latin America posted Fri May 7 2010 13:03:11 by eastern023
UA CO And NH Seek To Form A Pacific JV posted Wed Oct 28 2009 00:34:34 by United1
Why No CO Or AA 757s At DCA? posted Sun Jul 19 2009 15:27:15 by LHCVG
DL+NW & UA+CO And Latin America posted Fri Nov 21 2008 18:58:31 by Eastern023
AA Jets At ATL posted Thu Apr 10 2008 07:47:04 by EXAAUADL
UA 733 & AA 763 At Las Vegas 5APR08 posted Sat Apr 5 2008 21:16:52 by LASOctoberB6
CO And AA 707-720 Experiences posted Sun Feb 17 2008 17:26:37 by FlyCMHjets