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UA 744's Keep Breaking; Do Delta's Too?  
User currently offlineAA737-823 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 5821 posts, RR: 11
Posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 26684 times:

This question has been rolling around in the back of my mind ever since UA made the initial 747 reorganization announcement.

UA management decided, some weeks ago, that the 747 fleet needs to be kept close to home (with limited exception, like LAX-SYD and ORD-HKG I believe) in San Fran, to maximize the availability of maintenance and spares, in an effort to improve dispatch reliability.
And since Thursday, 179 has been stuck at SYD, and (rumor has it) is FERRYING to SFO on the 27th.
See reply 37 in this thread: United/Cont. Existing Fleet Upgrade Status 15 (by iowaman Feb 19 2013 in Civil Aviation)
Of course, that's just one situation, and ferrying happens to all fleets at all carriers, so we can't conclude much from that one particular instance of ferry.
BUT... the overall theme here is that UA's 747's aren't particularly reliable.
Compare that with Lufthansa, who is now retiring 744's with 120,000 hours on the clocks! We never heard LH announce "Oh, well, these birds are old, we're basing all of them out of MUC to improve reliability."

My question is whether DELTA is experiencing similar issues, with their fleet of ex-NW 744's.
The last time I flew in a NW 744, N665US, it was in appalling condition, in terms of the limited things that a passenger (who happens to also be an airline mechanic) can see in the cabin and out the window.
I didn't have much respect for NW as an airline, except for their DC-9 expertise. Otherwise, I found all their planes to be completely shabby.

So I wonder if DL's 747 fleet is a problem child like UA's seems to be.

Any insights?

121 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25369 posts, RR: 49
Reply 1, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 26672 times:

Simply put the 744 are yesterdays plane.

Besides United, the entire industry experiences lower reliability on the model compared to more contemporary fleets like the 777. (this is a fact and published by Boeing monthly).



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineTC957 From UK - England, joined May 2012, 874 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 26648 times:

Come on Boeing ! You need some good news now - make both UA and DL an offer for 748i's they can't possibly turn down.  

User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3751 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 26651 times:

DL refurbished all of their 744s a while back with new seats and AVOD in both classes.

That said, I don't think DL is having the same issues as UA.



"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlineTriple7Lr From United States of America, joined Sep 2012, 95 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 26530 times:

Just curious when was the last time you were on a DL 47. They're actually pretty nice with the new mods.

User currently offlineFlyHossD From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 890 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 26472 times:

I've heard a recent rumor from the UA Training Department that a 777-300 order will happen this calendar year. The 773s will replace the 744s.

And if that's accurate, I'd guess the L-UAL order for A350s will be cancelled.

Some rumors come true, many don't. Please keep in mind the adage, "You get what you paid for" and this rumor was free!



My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
User currently offlinephxa340 From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 891 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 26352 times:

Quoting FlyHossD (Reply 5):

Unless Boeing can offer UA availability within a year, pay for the 350 cancellations and sell the 77W at practically a loss that rumor makes no sense.

Don't understand so many members obsession to can the A350 order ... It's going to be a great plane for UA. Lets move on ...


User currently offlineJimJupiter From Germany, joined Sep 2011, 247 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 26296 times:

Quoting AA737-823 (Thread starter):
Compare that with Lufthansa, who is now retiring 744's with 120,000 hours on the clocks! We never heard LH announce "Oh, well, these birds are old, we're basing all of them out of MUC to improve reliability."

Well, they're actually all based in FRA.  



One is born, one runs up bills, one dies.
User currently offlineCODC10 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2412 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 26252 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 3):


DL refurbished all of their 744s a while back with new seats and AVOD in both classes.
Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 3):
Just curious when was the last time you were on a DL 47. They're actually pretty nice with the new mods.

The interior and IFE are not the reason why UA's (or any operator's) 744 fleet generally has poorer reliability than its more modern stablemates, though the perception is certainly that United's 747s are bigger 'hangar queens' than Delta's.


User currently offlinekamboi From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 143 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 26188 times:

It's sad that the only 777 one sees at SFO are AF, JAL, SQ, EVA. No UA  

User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13120 posts, RR: 100
Reply 10, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 25948 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

What are the hours on the UA planes? 747s are durable, but when they start to age, it is (purely in my opinion) a steeper 'knee in the curve' than with Douglas products.

The Airbus I've worked on aren't old enough for this discussion.   

Quoting phxa340 (Reply 6):
Unless Boeing can offer UA availability within a year, pay for the 350 cancellations and sell the 77W at practically a loss that rumor makes no sense.

Exactly. UA is going with the A350 which is a great plane for their needs.
So is the 787...   

What is the issue UA is having? I'm not hearing anything engine related... What is the cause?

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineFlyCaledonian From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2003, 2090 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 25941 times:

Isn't DL's 744 fleet quite under utilised, so that slack would surely help them by having more spares? UA seems to use their fleet more intensively, so basing them out of SFO makes more sense.


Let's Go British Caledonian!
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25369 posts, RR: 49
Reply 12, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 25947 times:

Here are some reliability stats for period ending December 2012.

Fleet average was 98.30%

Some airlines -
Air France - 97.32
ANA - 99.25
BA - 97.59
Cathay - 97.94
China - 98.67
Delta - 97.76
El Al - 96.17
EVA - 99.61
Korean - 99.78
Lufthansa - 98.92
KLM - 98.82
Malaysia - 97.52
Qantas - 97.42
United - 97.56
Virgin - 98.46

In comparison the 777 fleet average was 99.32

For those wondering how this is measured, it takes the total cancellations, air turn backs, maintenance diversions, divided by total scheduled departures.

To add some color, that 1.0 variance between the 744 and 777 is huge.
It basically means an average of 3.5 additional cancellations, diversions, or air turnback incidents annually for each aircraft per year. In otherwords the 744 will go AOG significantly more frequently then the 777.

Quoting kamboi (Reply 9):
It's sad that the only 777 one sees at SFO are AF, JAL, SQ, EVA. No UA

I was there the other day. Something like 4-5 UA 777s were around.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinepanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4910 posts, RR: 25
Reply 13, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 25850 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting kamboi (Reply 9):
It's sad that the only 777 one sees at SFO are AF, JAL, SQ, EVA. No UA

Huh? SFO-KIX is currently a 777...the new SFO-TPE starting this summer will also be a 777, as will the second SFO-NRT this summer...


User currently offlinebrilondon From Canada, joined Aug 2005, 4226 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 25860 times:

Quoting phxa340 (Reply 6):
Unless Boeing can offer UA availability within a year, pay for the 350 cancellations and sell the 77W at practically a loss that rumor makes no sense.

Why would they have to basically have to give the planes away for free? Who said they were cancelling the A350 deal? You just spouting wishes or are these statements facts you can back up?

[Edited 2013-02-26 14:51:02]


Rush for ever; Yankees all the way!!
User currently offlineB727FA From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 764 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 25815 times:

Quoting AA737-823 (Thread starter):

I would say the DL dispatch rate is pretty high and is reliable as a fleet. Additionally, as a mechanic, you would know that "shabby" doesn't mean "unreliable" or "bad."



My comments/opinions are my own and are not to be construed as the opinion(s) of my employer.
User currently offlineNorcal773 From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 1447 posts, RR: 11
Reply 16, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 25587 times:

Quoting kamboi (Reply 9):
It's sad that the only 777 one sees at SFO are AF, JAL, SQ, EVA. No UA

You obviously haven't been to SFO lately!



If you're going through hell, keep going
User currently offlinejayunited From United States of America, joined Jan 2013, 935 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 25482 times:

Quoting AA737-823 (Thread starter):
BUT... the overall theme here is that UA's 747's aren't particularly reliable.

I would agree with your post if you had posted this last year, because it would have been true. However ever since UA started moving the 744 to SFO the dispatch reliability of the 744 has greatly improved because that is where the main maintenance base for the 744 is located.

Quoting AA737-823 (Thread starter):
We never heard LH announce "Oh, well, these birds are old, we're basing all of them out of MUC to improve reliability."

Well of course you have never heard of LH doing this because they already are doing this most (not all) of their 744 are based out of FRA so they don't need to announce it. UA back in the day use to have 744 bases at ORD, SFO, LAX, and they use to fly them out of DEN, IAD, and HNL although i'm not sure if those stations were ever 744 bases. So there is nothing strange about UA's announcement and you can't compare UA to LH because LH flies international mostly from FRA, MUC, and DUS. While UA now fly international from EWR, IAD, IAH, ORD, LAX, SFO, HNL, and SEA so the announcement makes sense.


User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7560 posts, RR: 18
Reply 18, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 25196 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 3):
DL refurbished all of their 744s a while back with new seats and AVOD in both classes.

I heard the 747 is going to be staying with DL for at least 10 more years so they seem to have it under control.

Flying her next month DTW-NRT   

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 1):
Simply put the 744 are yesterdays plane.

Besides United, the entire industry experiences lower reliability on the model compared to more contemporary fleets like the 777. (this is a fact and published by Boeing monthly).

It also kinda puts the 748i in perspective....if the 77W or 77L can't handle the capacity that the 744 has, then I'm going to expect UA to eventually order the 748i once they begin retiring their 744s.



次は、渋谷、渋谷。出口は、右側です。電車とホームの間は広く開いておりますので、足元に注意下さい。
User currently offlinephxa340 From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 891 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 25137 times:

Quoting brilondon (Reply 14):

How about you read the statement I was responding to before responding all high and mighty.      


User currently offlinebrilondon From Canada, joined Aug 2005, 4226 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 24974 times:

Quoting phxa340 (Reply 19):

Quoting brilondon (Reply 14):

How about you read the statement I was responding to before responding all high and mighty.      

I was asking for a source for your facts and I find your comments rather rude and I certainly was not being all high and mighty.



Rush for ever; Yankees all the way!!
User currently offline777STL From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 3642 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 24908 times:

Quoting brilondon (Reply 20):
I was asking for a source for your facts and I find your comments rather rude and I certainly was not being all high and mighty.

You're out of line here. Why don't you try reading what he actually wrote before you light him up? You guys basically agree with each other - he was questioning the veracity of that rumor just as you were. Relax.



PHX based
User currently offlineCOSPN From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Oct 2001, 1619 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 24861 times:

Quoting AA737-823 (Thread starter):
(with limited exception, like LAX-SYD and ORD-HKG I believe)

Is ORD-HKG going to be a 744 all summer ? I thought all 744 is moving to SFO and the one SFO-SYD-LAX run ??


User currently offlineflightsimer From United States of America, joined Aug 2009, 556 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 24761 times:

Quoting brilondon (Reply 20):

I'm siding with PHX here. He said nothing that would require a source. Unless Boeing was to offer United a great deal they couldn't refuse, their would be no reason for them to switch is what he said (paraphrasing).

However, let's not forget that the 350's were ordered prior to the merger. Since then, united has gone on the record (last year) as saying the A350-900 will no longer be replacing the 747's and that they were looking at the 777-x, A350-1000 and 747-8i as as replacements now.

However, they did not say they were going to drop the -900's if they ordered something else as the replacement.



Commercial Pilot- SEL, MEL, Instrument
User currently offlineAADC10 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2091 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 25449 times:

I hope the UA 744 dispatch reliability problems are not related to the outsourcing to China of their heavy maintenance.

Quoting FlyHossD (Reply 5):
And if that's accurate, I'd guess the L-UAL order for A350s will be cancelled.

I doubt that UA would order the 773 or cancel the A350. The A350 is at least a half generation ahead of the 773. The A350 order was also connected to an A319/320 order that was cancelled in Ch. 11. Part of the settlement was the A350 order, so it will cost far more than the typical cancellation fee to drop the order.

Quoting kamboi (Reply 9):
It's sad that the only 777 one sees at SFO are AF, JAL, SQ, EVA. No UA

I believe that SFO-KIX and SFO-PVG are usually operated with a 772.


25 jumpjets : I certainly saw one coming into LHR one day within the last week - so not so close to home. Does the reasonable number of UA flights to LHR each day
26 sac : Delta ferried one from TLV-JFK last Saturday.
27 LAXintl : Actually TPE was to be 744 when launched but with 787 delays it got downgauged. But KIX going to 744 in April. But there are certainly other UA SFO 7
28 modesto2 : I can't speak about dispatch reliability, but as far as the cabin is concerned, DL's 747s are great with their recent mods. The 747 flat-bed is the mo
29 United1 : UA is basing the 744s at SFO (which is one of UAs MTC centers) but they continue to fly them to Europe, Asia and Australia. The theory is that by bas
30 Post contains images jayunited : Close to home does not mean that the aircraft doesn't ever leave SFO. And UA does not keep spare 744 in LHR nor any other type. All aircraft that UA
31 Post contains images MaverickM11 : I think anyone flying or trying to fly ORDNRT/HKG in the last couple years would find the moniker quite apt
32 Post contains images United1 : ....I've flown both those routes multiple times in the past few years One MTC delay and three ATC/Weather issues...the other flights were fine.
33 kamboi : I was there yesterday for almost 2 hours and watched all the heavy take offs and landings and non was a UA777
34 kamboi : was there yesterday and on saturday
35 ikramerica : That is exactly what will happen. UA has a large fleet of 767 and 777 needing to be replaced. The 787 and A350 can do that. pmUAs claim that the A359
36 United1 : KIX, PVG and 2 of the HNL flights are on the 777 still...I am not sure if there are any other UA 777 flights out of SFO any longer.
37 LAXintl : You picked a bad time. UA 777 scheduled movements on Monday: 0835 UA858 PVG-SFO 0842 UA663 SFO-HNL 1008 UA201 SFO-HNL 1100 UA886 KIX-SFO 1120 UA885 SF
38 Roseflyer : First off, I appreciate the fact that you are talking about airplane reliability and not the often posted comment of UA's 747s are archaic because the
39 avek00 : Many years of poor utilization, and underinvestment on maintenance during United's decade of hell (2000-2010). 1. Utilization -- until the fleet was
40 YYZAMS : What is the seating plan like for UA's A350? or A350 in general? I know it varies by airline but I like most of the A330s because they have 2 seats n
41 AA737-823 : Wow, everybody, thanks for the replies. Indeed, they are much better NOW; sadly, I'm a Star Alliance captive flyer, so I won't get the chance to sampl
42 jetjack74 : Uhhhhhh, highly unlikely there slim. Yeah I highly doubt they'll be going that long. They're on lease for 5 years, and I think the highest-time airfr
43 9V-SVC : Nonsense, why will UÃ order the 773 when this aircraft is lacking of range and less fuel efficient than the 77W? 77W makes more sense but even so, I
44 jayunited : Really which airlines? BA: all their 744 are based and maintained out of LHR AF: their 744 based and maintained out of CDG LH: most of their 744 base
45 Post contains images anrec80 : I don't believe LH is basing any 744 in MUC or DUS. They are all in FRA ))
46 AA737-823 : I see your point, but you're still missing mine. Other airlines do what they wish with their fleet, meanwhile, United finds it necessary to base the
47 LAXintl : The comment about UA 744 schedules and basing are very accurate. Unlike most 744 operators that have a single home bases, the UA fleet tended to float
48 n7371f : Is it possible that UA's problems with 744 reliability could be related to the Glenn Tilton years? Obviously UA kept up with all mandated maintenance
49 tommy767 : No. That's just a a.net myth. UA had better operational stats than CO post BK right before the merger.
50 Stitch : I am sure they were referring to the 777-300ER. Boeing no longer formally offer the 777-300 for sale.
51 davidho1985 : More or less because these airlines only have one hub or only have one hub which can support 747 flights[Edited 2013-02-26 19:02:23]
52 AA737-823 : Hardly. I've flown on sUA 757-222's; excepting the ones that have been through refresh, they're junk. They may have dispatch numbers that look good,
53 catiii : Mods: the thread title is misleading. UA has dispatch rates on par with the industry. maybe change the title to something along the lines of " compari
54 tommy767 : Um, Your opinion? Last year I flew EWR-MIA, IAH-EWR, LAX-EWR, EWR-LAX, LAX-ORD on PMUA 757 with absolutely no MX delays whatsoever.
55 Norcal773 : That doesn't mean they don;t have any. SFO-KIX departs at around 11:30 daily and it's a 777, as is an SFO-IAD in the morning. There could be more but
56 glbltrvlr : The limiting factor for long haul aircraft is hours, not cycle counts. That's why some airlines add tag on flights for crew proficiency and why they
57 CALTECH : Absolutely, no matter what the uninformed think, it is no myth. The shabbiness of the exteriors and interiors was a sight to see.United maintained th
58 MaverickM11 : It was so little, so late, that it's hardly worth mentioning. Check the DOT stats...they certainly weren't making any numbers look good
59 PSU.DTW.SCE : We can all sit here and debate numbers and perception, but it will be difficult to come anything conclusive to declare the either UA or DL's 744s (or
60 N505FX : Yeah, think about how everyone is in love with their iPhones and marvels over the precision build...the Chinese are capable of engineering, mechanica
61 PHX787 : Yeah I guess you guys are right, what I heard was hearsay. 5 years sounds better, but what will they replace those flights with? Last I heard the 747
62 FlyDeltaJets : We do have stores in LHR As of today there are 3 747s OOS and 1 of those is because of painting and the other due to heavy check.
63 AA737-823 : No, my observation; sidewalls falling off of the airframe, exit door trims missing, malfunctioning galleys... none of these are opinion. Your unyield
64 CALPSAFltSkeds : I don't see the big deal. United decided to move most 744 operations to SFO for ease of maintenance, commonality and probably marketing reasons. Asia/
65 tommy767 : Well, in my experience the only non functioning things I've seen on a PMUA 757 were the wall paper in the bathroom -- and that wouldn't even count it
66 TrijetsRMissed : Knowing DL, it could be more 744s - of the younger/later-build variety. But from an enthusiasts perspective, I sure hope a 748I order is in the cards
67 AA737-823 : No, in all seriousness, I don't. I'm an elite on UA, so I feel like I know first-hand their strengths and weaknesses. Just as CO had things they were
68 SIA747Megatop : Before SQ retired their 744's they were flying around in appalling condition and often went tech, the A380's replacing them haven't faired much better
69 FlyDeltaJets : I don't see evidence that the UA 747 fleet is any less reliable than any other 747 fleet. All maintenance based decisions are made to increase reliab
70 na : The 744 is known as a very reliable airplane. So if UA has issues with it, its bad maintenance. I´ve recently been in the LH 747 maintenance hangar a
71 airproxx : I don't know about the other airlines operating both aircraft at the same time, but @ AF, the 744 average reliability figures are way better than thos
72 na : Again an example of an airline which doesnt take proper care of aircraft soon to be phased out. You wont find LH doing that. I am not too much surpri
73 jumpjets : I did realise they don't keep spare planes here I meant spare parts - though I accept the wording of my comment was open to different interpretations
74 strfyr51 : 8479 sustained GROUND damage to the fuselage @ SYD and had to have interim repairs, Had nothing to DO with reliability! It might have been good that y
75 usa330300 : You have to remember that the NWA mechanics were a very militant group. Their attention to maintaining the aircraft was secondary as compared to them
76 SEPilot : Wilco737 (who is a LH 747 pilot) said in another thread that he has never had one go tech; too bad he hasn't weighed in on this issue. If UA is findi
77 airproxx : Agreed. LH is one of AF biggest competitor, but their aircraft are always flying in close to perfect condition, even when their phasing out time is c
78 Post contains images airproxx : Sorry my last reply is confusing. I wanted to say that despite the fact that AF is my heart company, and that LH is one of its biggest competitor, I m
79 PSU.DTW.SCE : Thank you! I like how we have one incident and before every knows the story, everyone is claiming they are "JUNK" This is an ignorant and uninformed
80 usa330300 : It is what they (the mechanics) did in their job action. How in the world is that uninformed? They threatened other mechanics and their families with
81 PSU.DTW.SCE : While yes it is true the NW AMFA mechanics were a militant group and ultimately mis-lead by their union leaders, there is no indication that over the
82 strfyr51 : Bad MX @ UA?? Do you actually KNIOW what you're talking about?? Do you have Proof or is this just opinion as usual?
83 SQSFO : The Current United Airlines, is a large airline, and I suspect they are going to need more than 50 wide bodies to replace the current fleet. After a l
84 jayunited : So the only airline you could come up with is Delta. Your comparison and statement are completely wrong you originally started talking about the airc
85 TVNWZ : 747 has 4 engines. 777 has two. I would assume that the 747 would have twice the trouble than a 777, just on that fact alone.
86 na : When a type that is among the most reliable anywhere else, should have problems at UA, then its logical that its a UA inhouse issue, and that has mos
87 CODC10 : I don't see what the problem is. UA's 747 operation at SFO will be huge this summer. 2x to FRA, LHR, NRT, ICN, HKG, KIX, SYD, PVG and PEK, plus LAX-S
88 panamair : The DL 744 flying this summer out of NRT should be close though - 9 dailies: HNL (2x), SEA, ATL, DTW, JFK, TPE, MNL, BKK.
89 CODC10 : I seem to have forgotten about DL's NRT interport flying with the 744. Interesting that DL manages as many daily 747 flights as UA despite having a f
90 N505FX : Look at the figures, it is not significantly different at UA than at other airlines, hardly grounds for a "factual" statement like you made. First, I
91 avek00 : And that's precisely what was not occurring during United's most financially difficult period.
92 rocket45 : In NRT NW maintained a 747-400 spare and Delta has falways done the same.. Today there is still a spare for 7 daily arrival and departures of which tw
93 glbltrvlr : I can't speak to what United was or wasn't doing, but I can say there are different strategies that can be used depending on what the objectives of t
94 Post contains images PHX787 : good ol airliners members not looking into the whole story behind things He's stated as well in previous threads that they are quite reliable, actual
95 musapapaya : Some maintenance are outsourced - QF do theirs in MNL, CX in Xiamen, for example.
96 STT757 : I think at this point they are going to go with "proven" vs. newer for a 744 replacement. I think they will announce a new order to replace the 744s
97 Post contains images SEPilot : I'll drink to that (even though I don't drink)!
98 tommy767 : sCO has their share of shabby interiors. A lot of the late 90s delivered 737 seats are truly worn and provide zero back support.
99 planiac787 : I saw the UA 747 in Fra recently in January,..It was in old colors and looked worn out... I think it was on it s way to SFO.... I have also been on th
100 rwy04lga : Nor have they US prices/costs. Top deck windows are slanted inwards slightly, so better viewing from main deck. I'm not touching THAT one. I don't be
101 winstonlegthigh : Based on what we've been seeing, and what we're likely to continue seeing, all will have ample opportunity to observe the relatively plain-looking 77
102 sonomaflyer : The 350 order is too large to account for the 77As. It's 25 planes with the same number of options. UA stated repeatedly that the 359 order is to repl
103 FlyHossD : Ah yes, I was wondering how long it would take you to mention the sCO seats. I do agree that the UA coach seats are more comfortable, though. I can't
104 STT757 : The A350 order, including the options, can replace the entire Pratt powered 777 fleet (A and ERs). That was before the merger, Smisek has said they a
105 LAXintl : Timely, I just ran across this note - As we know in an effort to improve reliability, the 747 operations are being centralized on the west coast. In a
106 United1 : It's 25 on order with 50 options...UA could replace every 777 (PW and GE) in the fleet if they wanted to. UA statistically is getting about the same
107 jayunited : It was announced last year by the CEO that the 359 was not going to be the replacement aircraft for the 744s. Before the merger pmUA made the announc
108 sonomaflyer : Thanks, I stand corrected on the 359 comment. Smisek still isn't cancelling the 359 order given the huge penalties which would be incurred. It puts UA
109 jayunited : If the 77x range and performance comes close to the performance of A350-1000 and if UA decides to wait and go with the 77x does any one think that wit
110 sonomaflyer : According to Airbus, the 359 seats 314 folks in a three class set up. The 77X deliveries won't be before 2019 or so based on what has been mentioned s
111 LAXintl : From a presentation I saw, I believe the proposed configurations on the A359 are 274 in 3-class or 331 in 2-class. Not sure what the final will be, bu
112 STT757 : I don't think UA will wait for the 77X, I think they're looking for something that can start to be delivered around 2016. For UA to order the 748i I t
113 strfyr51 : More than likely the decision will come down to Money and the commonality of the fleet, The actual A350 will come to be not much more than a variation
114 toobz : DL dispatch on the 744 is extremely good. DL maint in general is very good. I believe UA has good maint practices as well..as do airlines in general i
115 ikramerica : I wonder how many years $15 million buys you. If it's for the whole fleet, can't be too many, but if it's per aircraft, that would probably fix a lot
116 fun2fly : ALC now has 20+ 77W's on order. Perhaps ALC's latest purchase of 10 77W's is for UA to lease for 10-12 years to replace half the fleet and get them to
117 malaysia : Flew out of SFO on a UA 747 and was over an hour late and had to return to gate for MX, cause First and Business Class lighting could not be reset or
118 STT757 : How about the possibility of a split order, 15 77W and 15 748i.
119 ikramerica : I can't see a split demand for 748 and 77W
120 avek00 : Tilton (in his time) and Smisek have both made clear that United has a preference for new-generation widebodies. As a general principle, this makes se
121 sonomaflyer : Excellent post. This finance angle is a major reason why the 350 order won't be cancelled along with the major penalties in the contract for cancella
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