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OAG Changes 3/1/2013: DL Adds SEA Markets/UA/Y4  
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7689 posts, RR: 15
Posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 10694 times:

INSTRUCTIONS

WHAT IS THIS REPORT?
This compares what is for sale THIS WEEK for the stated period versus what was for sale LAST WEEK...It does NOT compare to last year or now (UNLESS OTHERWISE STATED).

HOW DO I READ IT?
XXX-YYY DEC 4>5 JAN 4>5 ; means that the listed airline changed the frequency between the two airports to add from 4 to 5 roundtrips in December and January. No other months were changed. I only list one direction, although it is possible the listed change is only one way. It is too difficult to average the two directions. I assume the change is roundtrip and that is most often the case.

HOW ARE THE DAILY DEPARTURES CALCULATED?
This report uses total operations for the month listed, divided over the days in the month.

WHAT ARE THE FRACTIONAL FLIGHTS?
Non-daily operations create fractional weekly service. In most cases flights are rounded, but in the case of international service or markets with low frequency, fractions are shown. If a flight operated 5 days out of 7, it would show 0.8 flights.

WHY ARE THERE WEIRD FREQUENCIES IN FAR AWAY MONTHS FOR LCCs?
Most airlines publish schedules 11 months in advance. This report covers the next 9 months. That avoids seeing schedules as they are loaded. Several LCCs load their schedules less than 9 months into the future. Their schedules may also end mid-month. If B6 loads their schedule until Jan15, all flights in Janaury will show half frequency because of the way the report is created.

WHY IS A WHOLE AIRLINE'S SCHEDULE SHOWN AS CHANGING FOR A FUTURE MONTH?
Similarly to the previous question, some airlines load their schedule from nothing inside the 9 month window of this report. When their schedule is extended it will show as new service because there was no previous schedule to compare to. In some instances I will show a more valid comparison against another period.

THOSE FLIGHTS AREN'T DELTA, THEY ARE PINNACLE
This report only shows the marketing code. It is too complicated to show all the operators.

THE FREQUENCIES MAY HAVE CHANGED AS YOU SHOW, BUT THE SEATS DIDNT CHANGE BECAUSE OF EQUIPMENT SWAPS
That is a natural weakness of a frequency based report, but it provides something to discuss below.

THE FREQUENCY DOESN'T SHOW A CHANGE, E.G. 4>4
This happens as a result of rounding. There is a change in service that is large enough to be listed, but through rounding it does not appear.

I marked some of the ones I thought were interesting with an "*".

AA MIA-PLS JUN 2>3 JUL 2>3 AUG 2>3

AC ALB-YYZ APR 1.7>1.6
AC GRR-YYZ APR 1.7>1.6
AC MDT-YYZ APR 1.9>1.6

AM JFK-MEX MAY 5>4
AM LAS-MEX APR 1.4>1.9 MAY 2>1.8 JUN 3>1.9 JUL 3>1.8 AUG 3>1.9 SEP 3>1.9 OCT 3>1.9

BB SPB-SSB JUN 0>12 JUL 0>12 AUG 0>12 SEP 0>12 OCT 0>12
BB STX-SJU MAR 1.9>1.7
BR SEA-TPE OCT 0.6>0.7

BW FLL-KIN MAR 1.9>1.2 APR 2>1.0 MAY 2>1.0 JUN 2>1.0 JUL 2>1.0 AUG 2>1.0 SEP 2>1.0 OCT 2>1.0
BW FLL-MBJ MAR 1.0>0.3 APR 1.0>0 MAY 1.0>0 JUN 1.0>0 JUL 1.0>0 AUG 1.0>0 SEP 1.0>0 OCT 1.0>0

DL ALB-MSP JUN 1.0>1.7 JUL 1.0>2.0 AUG 1.0>2
Now I think they really are upset with AS.
**DL ANC-SEA JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>1.0
DL ATL-BNA JUN 11>10 JUL 11>10
DL ATL-LAS JUL 7>8
DL ATL-NAS JUN 3>4 JUL 3>4
DL ATL-SFO JUN 8>9 JUL 8>9 AUG 8>9
*DL CVG-GSO JUN 0.8>0.2 JUL 0.8>0 AUG 0.8>0 SEP 0.9>0 OCT 0.9>0
*DL DIK-MSP JUN 0>1.4 JUL 0>2 AUG 0>2 SEP 0>2 OCT 0>2
*DL DTW-YQB JUN 0>0.8 JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>1.0
DL JFK-MVY JUN 1.0>1.7 JUL 1.0>2 AUG 1.0>2
DL JFK-SDQ OCT 2>3
DL JFK-SJU OCT 3>4
DL JFK-STI OCT 2>3
DL JFK-YQB MAY 0.5>0 JUN 2>1.5
And another SEA route...
*DL LAS-SEA JUN 0>0.7 JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>1.0 SEP 0>1.0 OCT 0>1.0
DL LAX-ATL JUL 11>12 AUG 11>12
DL LAX-CVG JUL 3>1.8 AUG 3>1.8 SEP 3>1.9 OCT 3>1.9
DL LAX-MSY SEP 1.7>3 OCT 1.9>3
DL LAX-SAN JUL 6>5
DL LGA-CHS SEP 5>4 OCT 5>4
DL LGA-MCO JUL 7>8 AUG 7>8 SEP 6>7 OCT 6>7
DL MEM-LAS JUN 1.8>1.2 JUL 1.9>1.0 AUG 1.8>1.0 SEP 1.9>1.0 OCT 1.9>1.0
DL MIA-LGA JUL 6>5 AUG 6>5 SEP 6>5 OCT 5>4
DL MSP-ORD JUL 9>8 AUG 9>8 SEP 9>8 OCT 9>8
DL SLC-COD JUN 1.9>1.3
DL SLC-EKO JUN 3>4 JUL 3>4 AUG 3>4
DL SLC-ONT JUN 4>5 JUL 4>5
DL SLC-SGU JUN 5>4 JUL 5>4 AUG 5>4 SEP 5>4 OCT 5>4
DL SLC-SUN JUN 5>6 JUL 6>8 AUG 6>7
DL SLC-TWF JUN 3>4 JUL 3>4 AUG 3>4 SEP 3>4 OCT 3>4

FJ LAX-NAN OCT 0.9>0.7

G4 AZA-OAK JUL 0.6>0.4 SEP 0.6>0.4

Weird...
IS ACK-HYA MAR 14>0 APR 14>0 MAY 14>0 JUN 14>0 JUL 14>0 AUG 14>0 SEP 14>0 OCT 14>0
ISA ACK-HYA MAR 0>14 APR 0>14 MAY 0>14 JUN 0>14 JUL 0>14 AUG 0>14 SEP 0>14 OCT 0>14

JL BOS-NRT MAR 1.0>0.8
JL SAN-NRT MAR 1.0>0.5

KX DFW-GCM APR 0.2>0 MAY 0.3>0.1
KX MIA-GCM MAR 2>3 JUN 2>3 AUG 2.0>3 OCT 2>3

LA MHC-PMC AUG 0>0.6

*NK DFW-TLC APR 0.2>0 MAY 1.0>0 JUN 1.0>0.6

OS IAD-VIE APR 1.0>0.9

OZ ROR-ICN SEP 0.3>0.6 OCT 0.3>0.5
OZ SPN-KIX APR 0.1>0.2 MAY 0>0.2 JUL 0>0.6 AUG 0>1.0

PK JFK-LHE APR 0.3>0.4 MAY 0.3>0.4 JUN 0.3>0.4 JUL 0.3>0.4 AUG 0.3>0.5 SEP 0.3>0.4
Do they really fly this?
*PK ORD-BCN JUN 0>0.3 JUL 0>0.3 AUG 0>0.3 SEP 0>0.3 OCT 0>0.3

*SE MIA-CDG JUL 0>0.4 AUG 0>0.5

SQ EWR-SIN APR 1.0>0.8 MAY 1.0>0.9 JUN 1.0>0.9 JUL 1.0>0.8 AUG 1.0>0.9 SEP 1.0>0.9 OCT 1.0>0.8

SY DCA-LAN MAY 0>0.9 JUN 0>1.0
SY DFW-CUN MAY 0.8>0.9
SY LAN-MSP MAY 0.0>0.9 JUN 0>1.0

TA JFK-SAP JUN 0.3>0.4
TA LAX-GUA JUN 0.0>0.2

Looks like a trade. PHX was year round before? Wonder if it will come back.
*UA CLE-PDX JUN 0>0.8 JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>0.8
*UA CLE-PHX JUN 1.0>0.2 JUL 1.0>0 AUG 1.0>0.2
UA DEN-BZN JUL 5>6 AUG 5>6
UA DEN-FAT JUL 3>4 AUG 3>4
*UA DEN-FLL AUG 0.9>0.3 SEP 1.0>0 OCT 1.0>0
UA DEN-HSV JUL 1.0>2 AUG 1.1>2.0
UA DEN-ICT JUN 5>6 JUL 5>6 AUG 5>6
UA DEN-MFR JUL 2>3 AUG 1.9>3
UA DEN-MSO JUL 4>5 AUG 4>5
UA DEN-NRT APR 1.0>0 MAY 1.0>0.6
UA DEN-RDM JUL 1.0>1.9 AUG 1.0>1.7
UA DEN-SEA JUL 5>6 AUG 5>6
UA DEN-TVC JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>0.8
UA EWR-PWM JUN 4>5
UA EWR-YQB JUN 3>4
UA LAX-IAH SEP 12>13 OCT 12>13
UA LAX-IPL APR 0.4>1.9
UA ORD-PIT JUN 6>7 JUL 6>7 AUG 6>7
UA ORD-SYR JUN 6>5 JUL 6>5 AUG 6>5
UA SFO-CDG APR 0.7>0.2
UA SFO-PVR JUL 0.5>0.4 AUG 0.6>0.5
*UA SFO-TPE APR 0.7>0 MAY 1.0>0 JUN 1.0>0.8

VX FLL-SFO AUG 1.4>1.0 SEP 2>1.0 OCT 2>1.5

WP HNL-LNY APR 4>3 MAY 4>3 JUN 4>3 JUL 4>3 AUG 4>3 SEP 4>3 OCT 4>3
WP LNY-HNL APR 6>5 MAY 6>5 JUN 6>5 JUL 6>5 AUG 6>5 SEP 6>5 OCT 6>5

*Y4 DEN-MEX MAY 0.3>0 JUN 0.3>0 JUL 0.3>0 AUG 0.3>0 SEP 0.3>0 OCT 0.3>0
Y4 LAS-GDL APR 1.3>1.1 MAY 1.3>1.0 JUN 1.3>1.0 JUL 1.3>1.0 AUG 1.3>1.0 SEP 1.3>1.0 OCT 1.3>1.0
Y4 LAS-MEX APR 2>1.5 MAY 2>1.0 JUN 2>1.0 JUL 2>1.0 AUG 2>1.0 SEP 2>1.0 OCT 2>1.0
Y4 LAX-MEX APR 1.0>0.8 MAY 1.0>0.5 JUN 1.0>0.6 JUL 1.0>0.5 AUG 1.0>0.6 SEP 1.0>0.6 OCT 1.0>0.5
Y4 LAX-MLM APR 1.0>0.8 MAY 1.0>0.7 JUN 1.0>0.7 JUL 1.0>0.7 AUG 1.0>0.7 SEP 1.0>0.7 OCT 1.0>0.7
Y4 MCO-MEX APR 0.4>0.2 MAY 0.4>0.2 JUN 0.5>0.3 JUL 0.4>0.3 AUG 0.5>0.3 SEP 0.4>0.3 OCT 0.4>0.3
*Y4 OAK-MEX APR 0.6>0.2 MAY 0.5>0 JUN 0.6>0 JUL 0.5>0 AUG 0.6>0 SEP 0.6>0 OCT 0.5>0
*Y4 SAN-GDL APR 0.5>0.1 MAY 0.6>0 JUN 0.6>0 JUL 0.5>0 AUG 0.6>0 SEP 0.6>0 OCT 0.5>0
Y4 SAN-MEX MAY 0.9>0.5 JUN 0.9>0.6 JUL 0.8>0.5 AUG 0.9>0.6 SEP 0.8>0.6 OCT 0.9>0.5
Y4 SMF-GDL APR 0.1>0.4 MAY 0.2>0.4 JUN 0.1>0.4 JUL 0.1>0.4 AUG 0.2>0.5 SEP 0.1>0.4 OCT 0.1>0.5

*YJ MWA-HOX MAR 0.2>0 APR 0.1>0 MAY 0.1>0 JUN 0.2>0 JUL 0.1>0 AUG 0.2>0 SEP 0.1>0 OCT 0.1>0

*ZK ELY-LAS APR 0.9>0 MAY 0.9>0 JUN 0.8>0 JUL 0.9>0 AUG 0.8>0 SEP 0.9>0 OCT 0.9>0
*ZK FMN-PGA APR 1.0>0 MAY 1.0>0 JUN 1.0>0 JUL 1.0>0 AUG 1.0>0 SEP 1.0>0 OCT 1.0>0
*ZK LAS-PGA APR 1.0>0 MAY 1.0>0 JUN 1.0>0 JUL 1.0>0 AUG 1.0>0 SEP 1.0>0 OCT 1.0>0

87 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineusairways85 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 3473 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 10534 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
**DL ANC-SEA JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>1.0

So that makes AS, UA, B6, DL all on this route...anyone else?


User currently onlineevanbu From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 379 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 10429 times:

It's great to see the expansion at DIK. Business is booming!

User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7768 posts, RR: 27
Reply 3, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 10402 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*DL DTW-YQB JUN 0>0.8 JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>1.0

This was a late re-instatement of a route that they were not initially planning to operate thus summer.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
DL LAX-CVG JUL 3>1.8 AUG 3>1.8 SEP 3>1.9 OCT 3>1.9

This is a reduction from past years, where it was typically been 3x/day in the summer.


User currently offlineslcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3638 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 10359 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
DL SLC-ONT JUN 4>5 JUL 4>5

even a frequecny increase is good news for ONT these days. Anyone know if they downsized some planes to do this or is this a true add?


User currently offlinepoint2point From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 2766 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 10297 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*Y4 DEN-MEX MAY 0.3>0 JUN 0.3>0 JUL 0.3>0 AUG 0.3>0 SEP 0.3>0 OCT 0.3>0
Y4 LAS-GDL APR 1.3>1.1 MAY 1.3>1.0 JUN 1.3>1.0 JUL 1.3>1.0 AUG 1.3>1.0 SEP 1.3>1.0 OCT 1.3>1.0
Y4 LAS-MEX APR 2>1.5 MAY 2>1.0 JUN 2>1.0 JUL 2>1.0 AUG 2>1.0 SEP 2>1.0 OCT 2>1.0
Y4 LAX-MEX APR 1.0>0.8 MAY 1.0>0.5 JUN 1.0>0.6 JUL 1.0>0.5 AUG 1.0>0.6 SEP 1.0>0.6 OCT 1.0>0.5
Y4 LAX-MLM APR 1.0>0.8 MAY 1.0>0.7 JUN 1.0>0.7 JUL 1.0>0.7 AUG 1.0>0.7 SEP 1.0>0.7 OCT 1.0>0.7
Y4 MCO-MEX APR 0.4>0.2 MAY 0.4>0.2 JUN 0.5>0.3 JUL 0.4>0.3 AUG 0.5>0.3 SEP 0.4>0.3 OCT 0.4>0.3
*Y4 OAK-MEX APR 0.6>0.2 MAY 0.5>0 JUN 0.6>0 JUL 0.5>0 AUG 0.6>0 SEP 0.6>0 OCT 0.5>0
*Y4 SAN-GDL APR 0.5>0.1 MAY 0.6>0 JUN 0.6>0 JUL 0.5>0 AUG 0.6>0 SEP 0.6>0 OCT 0.5>0
Y4 SAN-MEX MAY 0.9>0.5 JUN 0.9>0.6 JUL 0.8>0.5 AUG 0.9>0.6 SEP 0.8>0.6 OCT 0.9>0.5
Y4 SMF-GDL APR 0.1>0.4 MAY 0.2>0.4 JUN 0.1>0.4 JUL 0.1>0.4 AUG 0.2>0.5 SEP 0.1>0.4 OCT 0.1>0.5

Are these numbers something that may be reversed next week (or two) as we've seen in some cases? All routes/frequencies reduced except for SMF-GDL, and DEN-MEX, OAK-MEX, and SAN-GDL cancelled for season.... or for good? And a bit puzzling with the DEN-MEX route..... they couldn't fill a couple of flights a week here..... were the Sat/Sun frequencies bad scheduling....?

 


User currently offlineredzeppelin From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 638 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 10271 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
DL SLC-SGU JUN 5>4 JUL 5>4 AUG 5>4 SEP 5>4 OCT 5>4

Is this related to OO adding a UAX CRJ on SGU-DEN? If they are flying to SGU at their own risk, I suppose that they can decide which livery they fly it with...



Flown: DL,OS,NZ,UN,VV,NW,AA,UA,HP,TZ,AS,AF,KL,SK,WS,AZ,OK; op by OO,MQ,XJ,9E,G7,EV,QX,RP
User currently offlinerbgso From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 599 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 10125 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*DL CVG-GSO JUN 0.8>0.2 JUL 0.8>0 AUG 0.8>0 SEP 0.9>0 OCT 0.9>0

That really stinks, but not completely unexpected......


User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 7
Reply 8, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 10023 times:

Quoting rbgso (Reply 7):
That really stinks, but not completely unexpected......

That one was a staple for OH for the longest. When their flying wound down in ATL, pretty much the only destinations you'd see were CVG and GSO. It would usually be a CR7 and the a/c would be routed CVG-ATL-GSO-CVG.



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7689 posts, RR: 15
Reply 9, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 9870 times:

Quoting usairways85 (Reply 1):
So that makes AS, UA, B6, DL all on this route...anyone else?

It's interesting that DL is really attacking AS now.

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 3):
This was a late re-instatement of a route that they were not initially planning to operate thus summer.

Interesting that in May the whole station closes. This is not a leisure market is it? Sounds like the move to JFK has failed like SNA did. YQB is probably writing a check to keep it alive for Summer.

Quoting point2point (Reply 5):
Are these numbers something that may be reversed next week (or two) as we've seen in some cases?

Of course...that is their modus operandi it appears.

Quoting point2point (Reply 5):
And a bit puzzling with the DEN-MEX route

That route has been a challenge for everybody who has tried it. There are a lot of Hispanics in DEN, but not from MEX area.

Quoting rbgso (Reply 7):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*DL CVG-GSO JUN 0.8>0.2 JUL 0.8>0 AUG 0.8>0 SEP 0.9>0 OCT 0.9>0
That really stinks, but not completely unexpected......
Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 8):
That one was a staple for OH for the longest.

Everything that isn't NYC/LAX/etc. is going to fall one by one.


User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7978 posts, RR: 51
Reply 10, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 9795 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 9):
It's interesting that DL is really attacking AS now.

I'm very very unconvinced DL is attacking AS, especially after that unity party or whatever a few months ago at SEA. And what, 1 DL SEA-ANC vs how many AS SEA-ANC? Now if AS starts trying to crush the single DL flights out of SEA or DL attacks AS' SEA-SLC by adding a bunch of capacity, you may be on to something.

But a few DL flights in an expanding SEA operation ain't the end of the world. It's not as if cities are purely O&D either... DL putting a flight through SEA isn't sucking a 757 worth of passengers away from AS. Some will be O&D but most will be connecting.

TL;DR I think people are freaking out about this. Could be wrong, but I remain unconvinced



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlinebobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1725 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 9713 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
DL MSP-ORD JUL 9>8 AUG 9>8 SEP 9>8 OCT 9>8

I remember when NW/UA/AA all ran hourly mainline in this market.

Quoting redzeppelin (Reply 6):
Is this related to OO adding a UAX CRJ on SGU-DEN? If they are flying to SGU at their own risk, I suppose that they can decide which livery they fly it with...

Not unless SLC-SGU is at risk also. DL tells OO where to fly unless it is at risk.

Quoting enilria (Reply 9):
It's interesting that DL is really attacking AS now.

I think youre over-reading. You have a tendency to do that. But I appreciate your weekly report.


User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20822 posts, RR: 62
Reply 12, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 9608 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 10):
I'm very very unconvinced DL is attacking AS, especially after that unity party or whatever a few months ago at SEA.

I said the same thing in the SEA-LAS announcement thread, and was laughed at by another member who asked if I remembered high school and trying to get the attention of the pretty girl by throwing attention grabbers her way. Truly bizarre (especially if you read my signature line   ).



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineslcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3638 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 9581 times:

Quoting redzeppelin (Reply 6):

Is this related to OO adding a UAX CRJ on SGU-DEN? If they are flying to SGU at their own risk, I suppose that they can decide which livery they fly it with...

SGU is now all CRJ-200s so more seats. They use to fly much smaller planes into SGU so i think that might also be a large part of it. Even when they first introduced the CRJ to the new airport i dont think all the flights were . I think DEN is a natural though probably a good amount of demand if a non-stop exists and great connections East and on the way.


User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17823 posts, RR: 46
Reply 14, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 9569 times:

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 11):

I think youre over-reading. You have a tendency to do that. But I appreciate your weekly report.

I disagree. DL is sending a not so subtle message that AS needs to choose DL or AA, or this SEA amuse bouche of DL capacity will become a full on onslaught.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineEWRandMDW From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 417 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 9534 times:

SQ EWR-SIN APR 1.0>0.8 MAY 1.0>0.9 JUN 1.0>0.9 JUL 1.0>0.8 AUG 1.0>0.9 SEP 1.0>0.9 OCT 1.0>0.8

I thought this was going away! Did SQ have a change of heart?


User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20822 posts, RR: 62
Reply 16, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 9501 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 14):
I disagree. DL is sending a not so subtle message that AS needs to choose DL or AA, or this SEA amuse bouche of DL capacity will become a full on onslaught.

Does Sea-Tac have the gate space for DL's appetizer and entrée, let alone dessert?



International Homo of Mystery
User currently onlinePolot From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 2359 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 9479 times:

Quoting EWRandMDW (Reply 15):
I thought this was going away! Did SQ have a change of heart?

They are scheduled to end at the end of November.


User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5792 posts, RR: 28
Reply 18, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 9466 times:

[quote=usairways85,reply=1]So that makes AS, UA, B6, DL all on this route...anyone else?[/quote

Shouldn't that read:

ASASASASASASASASASASASASASASASASASASASAS, UAUA, B6, and DL?  

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7389 posts, RR: 16
Reply 19, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 9328 times:

The FJ frequencies and types will be quite variable until all the 332s arrive and the 744s go.

Quoting evanbu (Reply 2):
It's great to see the expansion at DIK. Business is booming!

Can't wait for flights to Big Delta Field,AK BIG-DIK..


User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7959 posts, RR: 19
Reply 20, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 9294 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*DL CVG-GSO JUN 0.8>0.2 JUL 0.8>0 AUG 0.8>0 SEP 0.9>0 OCT 0.9>0
Quoting rbgso (Reply 7):
That really stinks, but not completely unexpected......

Well, there goes another    but yeah totally not unexpected.... its sad, such a large airfield is now a ghost town.

BUT with 748's  
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*UA CLE-PHX JUN 1.0>0.2 JUL 1.0>0 AUG 1.0>0.2

Doesn't US have a good handle on this route too?



Follow me on twitter: www.twitter.com/phx787
User currently offlineseatback From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 780 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 9235 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 14):
I disagree. DL is sending a not so subtle message that AS needs to choose DL or AA, or this SEA amuse bouche of DL capacity will become a full on onslaught.

I'm not sure what's going on, but if DL's picking a fight, AS could pull out of a partnership with DL and convince AA to build up SEA>Asia.

That would not bode well for DL, as most SEA flyers would pick their hometown airline and their partner.

Delta is sunk in SEA without AS.

[Edited 2013-02-27 10:18:25]

User currently offlinethreeifbyair From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 709 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 9221 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 16):
Does Sea-Tac have the gate space for DL's appetizer and entrée, let alone dessert?

On the other thread that was talking about this when it first came up, someone with knowledge of SEA operations said that DL will have access to several gates on B concourse that are being freed up with the movement of the legacy CO operations to A (to be consolidated with UA, which is moving from N). The South Satellite is pretty much jammed up at peak times.

The big markets out of SEA are all covered by AS. DL, even with these new flights, only hits a few of the largest domestic markets: LAX, LAS, ANC, NYC (JFK), and MSP. DTW is somewhat smaller, but it is now actually the only DL domestic monopoly route out of SEA except when MEM and CVG are operating.


User currently offlinemah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33278 posts, RR: 71
Reply 23, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 8915 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 9):
Quoting point2point (Reply 5):
And a bit puzzling with the DEN-MEX route

That route has been a challenge for everybody who has tried it. There are a lot of Hispanics in DEN, but not from MEX area.

Mexicans love skiing, especially in Colorado. It's a winter route. For example, MEX is the single largest feeder onto AA's MIAEGE flights. Likely nothing to do with Hispanics in Denver.



a.
User currently offlinejporterfi From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 447 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 8738 times:

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
UA LAX-IPL APR 0.4>1.9

I'm intrigued by this increase. Any idea why UA is ramping up service to IPL? It seems strange, especially for an airport 120 miles (2 hours) from SAN, where UA has a decent operation.


25 mpdpilot : I have said it in other threads and I will say it again. The way partnerships between domestic airlines work is that they operate on their own and if
26 enilria : I said last week I was unconvinced unless they started adding routes from SEA against AS...and a week later they do that. I now believe. There is no
27 yellowtail : Enliria you missed the new LAX-SJO flight from Dec.
28 mah4546 : They are not ramping up per se. UA is ending service to Imperial. Originally service was ending in March. However, the replacement carrier (I believe
29 mah4546 : There are no options. After US/AA is done, so are mergers. DOT/DOJ won't allow it, IMO.
30 HPRamper : They are playing with fire aren't they? AS has someone else to go to, and without the AS feed, SEA withers away for DL. DL doesn't have the planes to
31 knope2001 : Here's a little more detail on this.... Ely ends as of 3/31...perhaps the most lightly-used EAS city is being dropped. Ely is really remote at about
32 Post contains links FATFlyer : The Merced and Visalia to LAS has been cancelled. ZK claims the loss of revenue from ELY-LAS is causing the drop of the other flights also. http://ww
33 rbgso : I don't disagree, however I think HA and AS would make an interesting combination. Don't know if it would get DOT approval, though.
34 Post contains images DeltaMD90 : Yes and we could be completely wrong for all I know, but I see a.net going down the slippery slope like they always do and speculate for a few days a
35 knope2001 : Thanks...I should have been clearer that MCE and VIS were not being dropped...just the handful of Vegas flights per week.
36 freakyrat : DL also returns the morning flight from SBN-MSP.
37 Post contains images AeroWesty : I don't understand why folks think that adding a few strategic flights—as DL did when they ran the Asian hub at PDX, to add feed where they believe
38 bobloblaw : I don't think that is what is happening. Actually the message is quite subtle. A not so subtle message would be flying SEA-BOS/ORD or DFW.
39 EricR : Keep in mind that big things can be accomplished without a merger or buyout of another carrier.
40 Post contains images DeltaMD90 : We also need to keep in mind that being the biggest doesn't matter. I don't see WN, AS, or even G4 plotting to become the largest. I think DL would b
41 panamair : Pan Am was never the largest US airline - United, American, and Delta were the Top 3 for the longest time...Pan Am was something like #5 or #6...
42 TWA902fly : While the oil boom is causing a boom in all kinds of business, I can't help but think DL is being reactionary in these markets. a year ago ISN and DI
43 bobloblaw : I think Delta had these on their radar. Delta's Planning dept isn't that reactive but more proactive. They probably had these markets planned and mig
44 STT757 : I agree, save smaller deals like if someone wanted to takeover VX (unlikely) or if say B6 wanted to merge with NK. Eastern was the largest US airline
45 Post contains links MIflyer12 : There's been discussion about EA as the largest U.S. airline. In the early 70s that didn't appear to be so. In 1970 Who Was The Top 4 Largest Airlines
46 prost : Regarding rhe AS/DL codeshare relationship, and whether it has devolved into a spat, I ask only this: Most airlines in the US are operating very lean,
47 Post contains links AeroWesty : Perhaps any further discussion of DL messing with AS could be continued in this still open thread where this issue was hashed over just recently: Rum
48 MaverickM11 : I'm not so sure. DL has at least two hubs worth of capacity (CVG/MEM) that could appear in SEA quickly, and covering the major trunk routes wouldn't
49 tys777 : The thing to remember with ISN is that they needed a waiver to operate a CRJ into the airport as the ramp wasn't designed to handle that kind of weig
50 DeltaMD90 : Yeah I'm sure DL could, and I'm sure DL would bleed money faster than Virgin America. Why don't hubs just appear out of the blue? Do you even know th
51 PlanesNTrains : Why? DL feeds a variety of carriers in their alliance that compete with one another. This is really quite similar in that AA does little with AS in S
52 Deltal1011man : unlikely. That was annouced the same day(or around abouts) as the last lovely PR from DL/AS. Starting in June now per the timetable. Edit, July 1 sta
53 Post contains images RWA380 : For what it is worth, I have been saying the exact same thing as well, I have no reason to believe that the CEO's of both AS & DL show up in Seat
54 PSU.DTW.SCE : Which is completely unfeasible and would not enable them to rebalance their core network out of ATL, DTW, MSP with the pending reduction of 50 seat f
55 enilria : If it starts in December it is outside the report window. If it is this Summer I can only assume it will show up at some point as long as it has enou
56 Post contains images md3 : The problem with Delta sending their customers on any of those 16 AS dailies is, Delta then has to pay out AS for those seats they sold. This isn't a
57 Post contains images MaverickM11 : I think the loyalty is a little over stated--it's probably more due to AS' network from SEA and that they're somewhat low cost and run an excellent o
58 LHCVG : I'm glad someone finally pointed that out! We always see talk of their "dartboard" strategy and the like, but they clearly have a plan they work from
59 DeltaMD90 : Well you are right, I do not know if DL could be successful growing a hub basically overnight against a carrier already there, loved by the populatio
60 BoeingGuy : AS picking one partner will weaken AS. I'm sure DL knows that. Part of AS's success is their lucrative code sharing with both AA and DL and their res
61 enilria : Well, they have to prorate the ticket if that is what you mean, but this assumes DL can make a profit flying SEA-ANC as a red-eye. It won't. Nobody h
62 FWAERJ : FWA-MSP resumes on the same day (3/2) as well after a seasonal suspension, replacing one of the five FWA-DTW flights. FWA-ATL remains 3x.
63 N766UA : That makes no sense to me. It's always been year-round and they're the only airline flying the route. Why drop it for a seasonal trip to PDX?
64 PlanesNTrains : I'm not clear on why you think AA+AS at LAX is a no-go but DL+AS is fine. If anything, I'd think the latter would have a far larger hub marketshare t
65 FlyASAGuy2005 : I was going to stay out of this but I can't help myself. Riddle me this... -Was AS "attacking" Delta when they started direct service to ATL? Now, the
66 Deltal1011man : And just what are they going to do? cry? they darn sure aren't going to complain about consolidation. You won't find may in airline management that t
67 Post contains images PlanesNTrains : Sigh. You're right. It's retaliation. -Dave
68 flyiguy : WN and Y4 are no longer interlining now that WN has its own international capabilities ala FL. All the locations that were largely interlining points
69 enilria : Nope. DL has less share than AA or AA/US. Or they could park it like all the other RONs in SEA. BOS-MSY, BOS-FLL, LAX-ORD, Look at their numbers in D
70 BoeingGuy : Again, I don't get why it's in DL's best interest to greatly weaken a code-share partner. If AS drops their relationship with AA (and thus, BA, CX, a
71 PlanesNTrains : I'm referring to DL+AS in SEA vs AA+AS in LAX. Or not. We can do this all day..... Again, I was referring to SEA, which is what we were discussing. Y
72 yellowtail : the Oil "thru traffic" from IAH helps UA(CO) on this route. It is good yielding. Any extra empty seats they fill in SEA is jsut gravy. You have to ke
73 DeltaMD90 : Is this a serious question? I'm sure there are ways to prevent a merger and if AA tried to move on AS, I think DL would do something other than "cry"
74 BoeingGuy : Sure. I can see your point, but I'm not sure that AS's shareholders, leadership, employees, or customers (of which I'm a regular one) would like to s
75 DeltaMD90 : Well that is business, some acquisitions go through, some fail like US+DL. Sometimes carriers can be enticed, sometimes they can't. I think AS' best
76 enilria : That's the easiest question to answer. One stone, many birds... 1) Lowers the price of AS to be purchased 2) Hurts AA if they separate AS and AA 3) H
77 b757capt : Yes ZK is closing the LAS station.
78 PlanesNTrains : Point being, there are reasons that carriers fly ANC-SEA that don't involve retaliating against Alaska. Through traffic, idle aircraft, lack of RON s
79 FlyASAGuy2005 : I'm also convinved that i'm not in the vey least convinced that Delta is "attacking" AS in any way. Others may have a different view but this is all
80 enilria : I'm talking about LAX. AA has little interest in SEA. I don't know how you got the impression I'm talking about that. This whole situation revolves a
81 Prost : If I'm not mistaken, AS and DL also code share in LAX, and AA and AS code share in SEA. It isn't as if AS has 'fenced' these cities from their other c
82 PlanesNTrains : Look , you started with referencing AA/US+AS at LAX and suggested it was a no-go. I replied (see below) that DL+AS in SEA would have 3 TIMES the mark
83 PlanesNTrains : Enilria, I had posted this previously, but I'd like to clarify it because it is inaccurate. Below is the best I could pull for 2012 at LAX. "Current"
84 as739x : Yes, CLE-PHX will return. It's in our system to re-start at least. Just now enough demand to the 100 degree desert during the summer when traffic can
85 RWA380 : I totally get that, and of course my example was far fetched to prove my point. Indeed DL is not trying to take AS on in SEA, if they were, like I sa
86 freakyrat : The waiver to operate at ISN deals with aircraft weight in regards to runway length and width not so much as with ramp weight. Original waiver was giv
87 commavia : I believe the OO split at LAX between UA and DL branded flying is more than 50/50 for UA, but the UA portion should be coming down over the next few
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