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Who Will Fly The Pope If AZ Goes Belly Up?  
User currently offlineGonzalo From Chile, joined Aug 2005, 1950 posts, RR: 2
Posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 8083 times:

Although I'm fully aware about how minimal are the chances that AZ could effectively disappear ( I think that chances are minimal even in the current political and economical situation in Italy ), I'm curious about how could a situation like that will be handled by the Vatican. According to all the experts, the next Pope will be much younger than Ratzinger, and one could expect he will be more active and probably a FF, but who will carry him if AZ finally can't survive the crisis ?

Rgds.
G.


80 Knots...V1...Rotate...Gear Up...DC-3 / EMB-110 / Fairchild-227 / Ab318-19-20 / B732 / B763
47 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineKL911 From Ireland, joined Jul 2003, 5084 posts, RR: 12
Reply 1, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 7994 times:

Well, I just checked, and there is no pope anymore for the moment. Maybe they will first check out Alitalia before appointing another one.  


Next trip : DUB-AUH-CGK-DPS-KUL-AUH-CDG-ORK :-)
User currently offlineAustrianZRH From Austria, joined Aug 2007, 1340 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 7952 times:

Quoting KL911 (Reply 1):
Well, I just checked, and there is no pope anymore for the moment. Maybe they will first check out Alitalia before appointing another one.

You are one hour too early with that statement  . His resignation is effective 2000 hours Z+0100, 28FEB13  .



WARNING! The post above should be taken with a grain of salt! Furthermore, it may be slightly biased towards A.
User currently offlinegr8circle From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 3070 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 7942 times:

Quoting Gonzalo (Thread starter):
but who will carry him if AZ finally can't survive the crisis ?

The new entity that will inevitable emerge from the ashes if AZ goes down......think Swissair >> Swiss


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 29688 posts, RR: 84
Reply 4, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 7942 times:
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Maybe LH will bring back Lufthansa Italia and name one of the airframes "Vatican City".   

User currently offlineaudidudi From United States of America, joined Oct 2007, 410 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 7876 times:

Quoting gr8circle (Reply 3):

The Papal Swiss Guards are Swiss soldiers also......think Swissair >> Swiss!


User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3639 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 7852 times:

At one time, PA, TW and AA flew the Pope to the US, not AZ.

I'd say that in the event of an AZ collapse, he would fly the flag carrier of the country that he is going to, much like how it used to be.



I don't work for FWA, their tenants, or their ad agency. But I still love FWA.
User currently offlinen729pa From UK - England, joined Jan 2011, 367 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 7840 times:

Emirates! They go pretty much anywhere and everywhere!

User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 6944 posts, RR: 18
Reply 8, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 7758 times:

Could they just buy a private aircraft? and like, supersize the security on it?

Or buy Prince Waleed's A380 that's purportedly on sale    (talk about interfaith dialogue    )

Quoting n729pa (Reply 7):
Emirates! They go pretty much anywhere and everywhere!

I doubt they'd sell a jet a catholic   



One of the FB admins for PHX Spotters. "Zach the Expat!"
User currently offlineEIDL From Ireland, joined Apr 2012, 366 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 7747 times:

EI always made a (likely completely spurious) claim about being the first airline to carry the Pope that wasn't AZ. They're getting in to a lot of contract flying again now...

User currently offlinealfa164 From United States of America, joined Oct 2012, 304 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 7693 times:

Just put wings on the Pope-mobile...

User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3639 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 7647 times:

Quoting n729pa (Reply 7):
Emirates! They go pretty much anywhere and everywhere!

I don't think that's an option for TLV...  



I don't work for FWA, their tenants, or their ad agency. But I still love FWA.
User currently offlinevfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 3905 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 7635 times:

Ryanair.

They serve the better suited Rome airport anyway.

More seriously, maybe he would have access to the Italian government's fleet? Noted this afternoom that he used a Repubblica Italia helicopter for his farewell flight.


User currently offlineJoePatroni707 From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 444 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 7603 times:
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The pope flew AA once from DEN to FCO I think it was around 1991 or so.

User currently offlinevfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 3905 posts, RR: 5
Reply 14, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 7588 times:

Quoting JoePatroni707 (Reply 13):
The pope flew AA once from DEN to FCO I think it was around 1991 or so.

The return flight from a country visited by the Pope is traditionally carried out by a carrier from that country (if there is a flag carrier, that carrier), whereas the inbound flight is on Alitalia.


User currently offlineJoePatroni707 From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 444 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 7568 times:
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Quoting vfw614 (Reply 14):
The return flight from a country visited by the Pope is traditionally carried out by a carrier from that country (if there is a flag carrier, that carrier), whereas the inbound flight is on Alitalia.

Interesting did not know that, thanks for the tip. Perhaps the Pope can buy a Ferrari and just drive real fast instead of fly.


User currently offlineKL911 From Ireland, joined Jul 2003, 5084 posts, RR: 12
Reply 16, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 7425 times:

Quoting vfw614 (Reply 14):
The return flight from a country visited by the Pope is traditionally carried out by a carrier from that country (if there is a flag carrier, that carrier), whereas the inbound flight is on Alitalia.

Wouldn't that be very expensive, having two empty ferry flights ?



Next trip : DUB-AUH-CGK-DPS-KUL-AUH-CDG-ORK :-)
User currently offlinevfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 3905 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 7408 times:

You would have two emtpy ferry flights anyway as most papal visits last a couple of days (or even longer if it is a tour) which make it rhater unlikely that an aircraft would stay with the pope for the duration of the trip.

Anyway, afaik, the costs are covered by the rather hefty ticket prices journos have to pay to travel on board Papa Force 1.


User currently offlinemastermis From Cayman Islands, joined Apr 2008, 139 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 7373 times:

VIRGIN seems appropriate!  

User currently offlinevfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 3905 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 7278 times:

Or he will go for this one:

http://www.italylogue.com/about-ital...er-airline-takes-to-the-skies.html


User currently offlineN14AZ From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2607 posts, RR: 25
Reply 20, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 7176 times:

Here are my proposals:


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User currently offlinePaolo92 From Italy, joined Oct 2007, 252 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 7145 times:

Well... Ryanair:
http://www.breakingnews.ie/discover/...the-pope-thing-covered-584467.html
 



Each evening, stars come out their daylight hiding places... But one of those, will be my wingtip, passing over...
User currently offlineGonzalo From Chile, joined Aug 2005, 1950 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 7133 times:

Quoting N14AZ (Reply 20):
Here are my proposals:

I swear I was expecting a picture of the beloved "Hooters Air "....  

G.



80 Knots...V1...Rotate...Gear Up...DC-3 / EMB-110 / Fairchild-227 / Ab318-19-20 / B732 / B763
User currently offlineAZA330 From Italy, joined Feb 2004, 289 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 7037 times:

I guess it will depend on what frequent flyer program he will sign up for  

User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24075 posts, RR: 22
Reply 24, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 6641 times:

Quoting vfw614 (Reply 14):
Quoting JoePatroni707 (Reply 13):
The pope flew AA once from DEN to FCO I think it was around 1991 or so.

The return flight from a country visited by the Pope is traditionally carried out by a carrier from that country (if there is a flag carrier, that carrier), whereas the inbound flight is on Alitalia.

Prior to their demise, TWA was the most frequently-used US carrier on papal visits to the U.S. TW carried the Pope on at least 5 different trips between 1965 and 1999.

Story and photo from a 1995 trip from BWI to FCO (on TWA's first 767-200, N601TW). More photos with the story.
http://www.twaflightattendants.com/papalcharter.html



User currently offlineGonzalo From Chile, joined Aug 2005, 1950 posts, RR: 2
Reply 25, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 6712 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 24):
Story and photo from a 1995 trip from BWI to FCO

Wow... what a wonderful experience.... thanks for sharing that photo too, combines my passion for aviation with the image of a man that, regardless all his mistakes as a human, was in my opinion sincerely worried for the people around the world, specially the less fortunate.


Rgds.
G.



80 Knots...V1...Rotate...Gear Up...DC-3 / EMB-110 / Fairchild-227 / Ab318-19-20 / B732 / B763
User currently offlineRatypus From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2004, 176 posts, RR: 0
Reply 26, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 6258 times:

"The return flight from a country visited by the Pope is traditionally carried out by a carrier from that country (if there is a flag carrier, that carrier), whereas the inbound flight is on Alitalia."

So the pope will be visiting Singapore a lot, and Zimbabwe rather less then?


User currently offlinevfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 3905 posts, RR: 5
Reply 27, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 6237 times:

Interesting reference in one of the clippings on the TWA Flight Attendant's website that on an earlier flight, TWA served Pope John Paul II a meat dish on a Friday, apparently not being aware of the fact the he would not touch meat on a Friday.

User currently offlineEGPH From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2006, 233 posts, RR: 0
Reply 28, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 5378 times:

I'm sure that for all but long-haul flights to North/South America and the Far East/ Oceania the Aeronautica Militare (Italian Air Force) could give him use for on of the A319CJ or Dassault Falcon's they have if there was nothing better on offer. Otherwise I'm sure a trip down to CIA would keep FR happy  Smile

[Edited 2013-03-01 06:34:34]

User currently offlineQuokkas From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 29, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 5261 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 11):
Quoting n729pa (Reply 7):Emirates! They go pretty much anywhere and everywhere!
I don't think that's an option for TLV...

It would be a no go for Berlin as well. And he'd have to be careful what day he wanted to visit Toronto. At least if he wanted to go to Israel he could go via Amman and visit Mount Nebo, near Madaba (where Moses viewed the Promised Land) along the way, as a previous Pope did.  
Quoting EGPH (Reply 28):
Otherwise I'm sure a trip down to CIA would keep FR happy

Well, if a donkey was good enough for Jesus when he rode into Jerusalem, then the Pope should be perfectly happy with FR. I hope he remembers to print his boarding pass.  


User currently offlinebraynfeeble From Canada, joined Aug 2005, 70 posts, RR: 0
Reply 30, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 3647 times:

Pope John Paul II flew on us (5T) the plane still has a plaque near the entry door.


♥☆•*¨*•.¸¸¸.•*¨* •☆•*¨* je voudrais voler / comme un oiseau d'aile d'aile ♥☆•*¨*•.¸¸¸.•*¨* •☆•*¨*
User currently offlineDCAJet From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 397 posts, RR: 4
Reply 31, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 3496 times:

I am certain that the Vatican will have no problem procuring an airline that will gladly fly His Holiness. All flights ex-Rome are the responsibility of Alitalia, a remainder from the days when Alitalia was state owned. The Republic of Italy and the Holy See coexistence is defined by the Treaty of Lateran.

Airlines bid for the return flight to Italy and they are approved by the Holy See on a number of criteria, not the least of them being historical ties - TWA was a key example of that.

Now, is it me but I struggle with the opening question and I find the idea of speculating if and when an airline disappears a bit in bad taste. No airline is eternal, even the best managed ones, so sooner or later all of them will face transformation or extinction. But to assume that Alitalia's days are numbered, I don't know... Why keep harping on it? Rumors of Alitalia's death have been greatly exaggerated.

Back in 1844, the Spanish writer José Zorrilla wrote in his "Don Juan Tenorio" the following phrase: "Los muertos que vos matais gozan de buena salud" (the dead you kill enjoy good health") - AZ may not be in good health but it ain't dying either...



"Unattended children will be given espresso and a free kitten"
User currently offlinen729pa From UK - England, joined Jan 2011, 367 posts, RR: 0
Reply 32, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 3412 times:

I heard a rumour that the Pope was scared stiff of flying.......

Well how many passengers do you see come off a plane and the first thing they do is kiss the ground!


User currently offlinelonghauler From Canada, joined Mar 2004, 4760 posts, RR: 43
Reply 33, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 3350 times:

Quoting n729pa (Reply 32):
Well how many passengers do you see come off a plane and the first thing they do is kiss the ground!

Its funny you should say that. I remember when the Pope visited Canada, and watching his arrival on television from the Alitalia airplane.

After kissing the ground, one of the commentators asked why he would do that. The other said "Oh, have you never flown Alitalia?" I roared!



Never gonna grow up, never gonna slow down .... Barefoot Blue Jean Night
User currently offlinealfa164 From United States of America, joined Oct 2012, 304 posts, RR: 0
Reply 34, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 3339 times:

Quoting n729pa (Reply 32):

In all probablitiy, you shouldn't use the term "stiff" and "Pope" in the same sentence...  


User currently offlinebx737 From Ireland, joined Sep 2001, 669 posts, RR: 3
Reply 35, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 3239 times:

Quoting EIDL (Reply 9):

In 1979 Pope John Paul II flew from Rome to Dublin and then onwards to Boston with Aer Lingus. I think it was one of the first times the Pope flew with an airline other than Alitalia.

[Edited 2013-03-01 12:19:59]

User currently offlinealfa164 From United States of America, joined Oct 2012, 304 posts, RR: 0
Reply 36, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 3203 times:

I would thing Virgin would be a natural...  

User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8091 posts, RR: 7
Reply 37, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 3130 times:
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Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 6):
one time, PA, TW and AA flew the Pope to the US, not AZ.

FROM the USA to Rome, but Alitalia few the Popes to America. Its the airline of the country where the flight originates that carries the Pope. The only time this has not happenend is when John Paul went to Havana in 1998 and Benedict in 2012, AZ did it boh ways. When JP went to Poland AZ flew both legs too. TWA was the Pope's favorite US airline but then it was the one with long ties to Itally too.


User currently offlineEGPH From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2006, 233 posts, RR: 0
Reply 38, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 3003 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 37):
When JP went to Poland AZ flew both legs too.

Surprising really, I thought LOT would have been only too happy to oblige in that circumstance. Even both ways if need be.


User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8091 posts, RR: 7
Reply 39, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 2937 times:
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Quoting EGPH (Reply 38):
Surprising really, I thought LOT would have been only too happy to oblige in that circumstance. Even both ways if need be.

The vatican approving his holiness fly a russian plane, I don't think so. Some of those trips to Poland were during Iron Curtain times. Since when is LOT an airline of Papal standards ? Today with 787 it could be but before joining the Star Alliance I doubt it.


User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8091 posts, RR: 7
Reply 40, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 2916 times:
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Quoting EGPH (Reply 38):
Surprising really, I thought LOT would have been only too happy to oblige in that circumstance. Even both ways if need be.

The vatican approving his holiness fly a russian plane, I don't think so. Some of those trips to Poland were during Iron Curtain times. Since when is LOT an airline of Papal standards ? Today with 787 it could be but before joining the Star Alliance I doubt it.


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24075 posts, RR: 22
Reply 41, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 2899 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 37):
and Benedict in 2012, AZ did it both ways.

The AZ 777 also carried the Pope on one U.S. domestic sector on that trip, IAD-JFK if memory correct.


User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6109 posts, RR: 9
Reply 42, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 2897 times:

No mention of the Pope flying Concorde, and the one that ultimately crashed to boot ?




New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlineWROORD From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 915 posts, RR: 0
Reply 43, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 2715 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 40):
The vatican approving his holiness fly a russian plane, I don't think so. Some of those trips to Poland were during Iron Curtain times. Since when is LOT an airline of Papal standards ? Today with 787 it could be but before joining the Star Alliance I doubt it.

That was on his first trip. Indeed AZ did it both way. However, all other trips he flew to Poland on AZ and back on LO 737-400, which at that time was a new plane.


User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 6838 posts, RR: 14
Reply 44, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 2694 times:

If all else fails he can be ferried around by the Flying Nun. I'm sure there is a Super-Guppy Model...

User currently offlineDevilfish From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4696 posts, RR: 1
Reply 45, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2534 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 6):
I'd say that in the event of an AZ collapse, he would fly the flag carrier of the country that he is going to, much like how it used to be.

Would that remove PR from the blacklist and allow it to fly to Rome in case the elected Pope decides to visit RP?   


Quoting EGPH (Reply 28):
I'm sure that for all but long-haul flights to North/South America and the Far East/ Oceania the Aeronautica Militare (Italian Air Force) could give him use for on of the A319CJ or Dassault Falcon's they have if there was nothing better on offer.

Well, HH flew on MM81806 before.....

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.....but given the ongoing financial crisis, they might invoke "separation of Church and State" and bill the Vatican for the use of these   .....

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"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
User currently offlinebaw716 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2026 posts, RR: 27
Reply 46, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 2065 times:

I think we are putting the cart before the metaphorical horse.

We need a Pope first.

Then we can talk about who he will fly (and yes, as long as AZ is around, it will be AZ).

baw716



David L. Lamb, fmr Area Mgr Alitalia SFO 1998-2002, fmr Regional Analyst SFO-UAL 1992-1998
User currently offlinecaptainstefan From United States of America, joined May 2007, 416 posts, RR: 0
Reply 47, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 2048 times:

Quoting mastermis (Reply 18):
VIRGIN seems appropriate!
Quoting alfa164 (Reply 36):
I would thing Virgin would be a natural...

I don't want to be one to perpetuate rumors - but with some of the scandals bubbling up lately I'd leave Sir Richard's entity out of the discussion   

In jest, of course. I am personally surprised His Holiness hasn't switched to all private flying in recent years.



Long Live the Tulip!
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