Gonzalo From Chile, joined Aug 2005, 1676 posts, RR: 0 Posted (2 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 6904 times:
Although I'm fully aware about how minimal are the chances that AZ could effectively disappear ( I think that chances are minimal even in the current political and economical situation in Italy ), I'm curious about how could a situation like that will be handled by the Vatican. According to all the experts, the next Pope will be much younger than Ratzinger, and one could expect he will be more active and probably a FF, but who will carry him if AZ finally can't survive the crisis ?
AustrianZRH From Austria, joined Aug 2007, 1264 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (2 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 6773 times:
Quoting KL911 (Reply 1): Well, I just checked, and there is no pope anymore for the moment. Maybe they will first check out Alitalia before appointing another one.
You are one hour too early with that statement . His resignation is effective 2000 hours Z+0100, 28FEB13 .
WARNING! The post above should be taken with a grain of salt! Furthermore, it may be slightly biased towards A.
EIDL From Ireland, joined Apr 2012, 209 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (2 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 6568 times:
EI always made a (likely completely spurious) claim about being the first airline to carry the Pope that wasn't AZ. They're getting in to a lot of contract flying again now...
vfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 3593 posts, RR: 5 Reply 12, posted (2 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 6456 times:
Ryanair.
They serve the better suited Rome airport anyway.
More seriously, maybe he would have access to the Italian government's fleet? Noted this afternoom that he used a Repubblica Italia helicopter for his farewell flight.
JoePatroni707 From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 197 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (2 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 6424 times:
The pope flew AA once from DEN to FCO I think it was around 1991 or so.
vfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 3593 posts, RR: 5 Reply 14, posted (2 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 6409 times:
Quoting JoePatroni707 (Reply 13): The pope flew AA once from DEN to FCO I think it was around 1991 or so.
The return flight from a country visited by the Pope is traditionally carried out by a carrier from that country (if there is a flag carrier, that carrier), whereas the inbound flight is on Alitalia.
JoePatroni707 From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 197 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (2 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 6389 times:
Quoting vfw614 (Reply 14): The return flight from a country visited by the Pope is traditionally carried out by a carrier from that country (if there is a flag carrier, that carrier), whereas the inbound flight is on Alitalia.
Interesting did not know that, thanks for the tip. Perhaps the Pope can buy a Ferrari and just drive real fast instead of fly.
KL911 From Ireland, joined Jul 2003, 4977 posts, RR: 14 Reply 16, posted (2 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 6246 times:
Quoting vfw614 (Reply 14): The return flight from a country visited by the Pope is traditionally carried out by a carrier from that country (if there is a flag carrier, that carrier), whereas the inbound flight is on Alitalia.
Wouldn't that be very expensive, having two empty ferry flights ?
" The European consumer would crawl naked over broken glass to get low fares." Michael O'Leary
vfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 3593 posts, RR: 5 Reply 17, posted (2 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 6229 times:
You would have two emtpy ferry flights anyway as most papal visits last a couple of days (or even longer if it is a tour) which make it rhater unlikely that an aircraft would stay with the pope for the duration of the trip.
Anyway, afaik, the costs are covered by the rather hefty ticket prices journos have to pay to travel on board Papa Force 1.
Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 21495 posts, RR: 24 Reply 24, posted (2 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 5462 times:
Quoting vfw614 (Reply 14): Quoting JoePatroni707 (Reply 13):
The pope flew AA once from DEN to FCO I think it was around 1991 or so.
The return flight from a country visited by the Pope is traditionally carried out by a carrier from that country (if there is a flag carrier, that carrier), whereas the inbound flight is on Alitalia.
Prior to their demise, TWA was the most frequently-used US carrier on papal visits to the U.S. TW carried the Pope on at least 5 different trips between 1965 and 1999.
Gonzalo From Chile, joined Aug 2005, 1676 posts, RR: 0 Reply 25, posted (2 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 5531 times:
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 24): Story and photo from a 1995 trip from BWI to FCO
Wow... what a wonderful experience.... thanks for sharing that photo too, combines my passion for aviation with the image of a man that, regardless all his mistakes as a human, was in my opinion sincerely worried for the people around the world, specially the less fortunate.
Ratypus From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2004, 176 posts, RR: 0 Reply 26, posted (2 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 5076 times:
"The return flight from a country visited by the Pope is traditionally carried out by a carrier from that country (if there is a flag carrier, that carrier), whereas the inbound flight is on Alitalia."
So the pope will be visiting Singapore a lot, and Zimbabwe rather less then?
vfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 3593 posts, RR: 5 Reply 27, posted (2 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 5054 times:
Interesting reference in one of the clippings on the TWA Flight Attendant's website that on an earlier flight, TWA served Pope John Paul II a meat dish on a Friday, apparently not being aware of the fact the he would not touch meat on a Friday.
EGPH From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2006, 205 posts, RR: 0 Reply 28, posted (2 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 4193 times:
I'm sure that for all but long-haul flights to North/South America and the Far East/ Oceania the Aeronautica Militare (Italian Air Force) could give him use for on of the A319CJ or Dassault Falcon's they have if there was nothing better on offer. Otherwise I'm sure a trip down to CIA would keep FR happy
Quokkas From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 29, posted (2 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 4077 times:
Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 11): Quoting n729pa (Reply 7):Emirates! They go pretty much anywhere and everywhere!
I don't think that's an option for TLV...
It would be a no go for Berlin as well. And he'd have to be careful what day he wanted to visit Toronto. At least if he wanted to go to Israel he could go via Amman and visit Mount Nebo, near Madaba (where Moses viewed the Promised Land) along the way, as a previous Pope did.
Quoting EGPH (Reply 28): Otherwise I'm sure a trip down to CIA would keep FR happy
Well, if a donkey was good enough for Jesus when he rode into Jerusalem, then the Pope should be perfectly happy with FR. I hope he remembers to print his boarding pass.
DCAJet From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 367 posts, RR: 5 Reply 31, posted (2 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 2312 times:
I am certain that the Vatican will have no problem procuring an airline that will gladly fly His Holiness. All flights ex-Rome are the responsibility of Alitalia, a remainder from the days when Alitalia was state owned. The Republic of Italy and the Holy See coexistence is defined by the Treaty of Lateran.
Airlines bid for the return flight to Italy and they are approved by the Holy See on a number of criteria, not the least of them being historical ties - TWA was a key example of that.
Now, is it me but I struggle with the opening question and I find the idea of speculating if and when an airline disappears a bit in bad taste. No airline is eternal, even the best managed ones, so sooner or later all of them will face transformation or extinction. But to assume that Alitalia's days are numbered, I don't know... Why keep harping on it? Rumors of Alitalia's death have been greatly exaggerated.
Back in 1844, the Spanish writer José Zorrilla wrote in his "Don Juan Tenorio" the following phrase: "Los muertos que vos matais gozan de buena salud" (the dead you kill enjoy good health") - AZ may not be in good health but it ain't dying either...
"Unattended children will be given espresso and a free kitten"
In 1979 Pope John Paul II flew from Rome to Dublin and then onwards to Boston with Aer Lingus. I think it was one of the first times the Pope flew with an airline other than Alitalia.
jfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 7348 posts, RR: 7 Reply 37, posted (2 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 1946 times:
Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 6): one time, PA, TW and AA flew the Pope to the US, not AZ.
FROM the USA to Rome, but Alitalia few the Popes to America. Its the airline of the country where the flight originates that carries the Pope. The only time this has not happenend is when John Paul went to Havana in 1998 and Benedict in 2012, AZ did it boh ways. When JP went to Poland AZ flew both legs too. TWA was the Pope's favorite US airline but then it was the one with long ties to Itally too.
jfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 7348 posts, RR: 7 Reply 39, posted (2 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 1754 times:
Quoting EGPH (Reply 38): Surprising really, I thought LOT would have been only too happy to oblige in that circumstance. Even both ways if need be.
The vatican approving his holiness fly a russian plane, I don't think so. Some of those trips to Poland were during Iron Curtain times. Since when is LOT an airline of Papal standards ? Today with 787 it could be but before joining the Star Alliance I doubt it.
jfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 7348 posts, RR: 7 Reply 40, posted (2 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 1734 times:
Quoting EGPH (Reply 38): Surprising really, I thought LOT would have been only too happy to oblige in that circumstance. Even both ways if need be.
The vatican approving his holiness fly a russian plane, I don't think so. Some of those trips to Poland were during Iron Curtain times. Since when is LOT an airline of Papal standards ? Today with 787 it could be but before joining the Star Alliance I doubt it.
WROORD From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 811 posts, RR: 0 Reply 43, posted (2 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 1532 times:
Quoting jfk777 (Reply 40): The vatican approving his holiness fly a russian plane, I don't think so. Some of those trips to Poland were during Iron Curtain times. Since when is LOT an airline of Papal standards ? Today with 787 it could be but before joining the Star Alliance I doubt it.
That was on his first trip. Indeed AZ did it both way. However, all other trips he flew to Poland on AZ and back on LO 737-400, which at that time was a new plane.
Devilfish From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4429 posts, RR: 1 Reply 45, posted (2 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 1349 times:
Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 6): I'd say that in the event of an AZ collapse, he would fly the flag carrier of the country that he is going to, much like how it used to be.
Would that remove PR from the blacklist and allow it to fly to Rome in case the elected Pope decides to visit RP?
Quoting EGPH (Reply 28): I'm sure that for all but long-haul flights to North/South America and the Far East/ Oceania the Aeronautica Militare (Italian Air Force) could give him use for on of the A319CJ or Dassault Falcon's they have if there was nothing better on offer.
captainstefan From United States of America, joined May 2007, 338 posts, RR: 0 Reply 47, posted (2 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 862 times:
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