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AS Ends Another Mexico Flight; Whats Latin Future?  
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24813 posts, RR: 46
Posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 10891 times:

I noticed in DOT filings that Alaska seeming has dropped another Mexico service.

They filed to inform the DOT that Horizon Air service between LAX and La Paz would be ending on April 6th freeing up the designation for other airlines potentially.

By my estimates this makes over 10 routes which have been dropped over the years.

While we certainly know Hawaii now plays a major part of AS operations, their Mexico flying at one time represented nearly 20% of ASM (peaked in mid 2000's) while in 2012 it down to 7%.

So where does Mexico sit in the AS network future? They entered into a codeshare with AeroMexico in recent times, will they use this as quasi presence instead?


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
96 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently onlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 2973 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 10689 times:

That's a bit of an overreaction. It was posted months ago in an OAG thread that AS/QX is pulling out of LAP (unfortunately, because I far prefer LAP to SJD as a place to be and hoped they'd keep LAP).

Apparently, AS is electing to focus on SJD and there is a new fast freeway between LAP and SJD.

AS has adjusted frequencies to Mexico in recent years as the tourist trade slowed down, and discontinued CUN and a few SFO flights, but it's not like AS is engaging in a massive Mexico pulldown. They still even maintain service to secondary destinations such as LTO, ZLO and ZIH and have added SJC-SJD, SJC-GDL and SAN-PVR in the past few years.

Actually AS has been in and out of LAP several times over the past 15 years, so maybe it will come back.

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
By my estimates this makes over 10 routes which have been dropped over the years.

Let's see if I can do this....

SJC-PVR
LAX-LAP
LAX-CUN
SFO-CUN
SEA-CUN
SFO-MZT
SFO-ZIH
ONT-MEX
SMF-GDL (which didn't last long)
PHX-SJD
ACA service (not sure of the routing)
PDX-SJD (didn't last long)
PDX-PVR (didn't last long)
SEA-MZT (not sure if this one is coming back)

So I get more like 15.

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
their Mexico flying at one time represented nearly 20% of ASM (peaked in mid 2000's) while in 2012 it down to 7%.

That's partially just due to AS's ASM being much greater now than in the mid-2000s also. AS still has a healthy Mexico route network.

[Edited 2013-02-28 15:42:02]

[Edited 2013-02-28 15:42:59]

[Edited 2013-02-28 15:43:31]

User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12876 posts, RR: 100
Reply 2, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 10538 times:
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I see the LAX-PVR flight still exists (with steep fares a month out). So that is the one I care about.  
Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 1):
Apparently, AS is electing to focus on SJD and there is a new fast freeway between LAP and SJD.

Interesting!

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5347 posts, RR: 15
Reply 3, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 10416 times:

I would hope to see possibly a bit of growth from SAN to Mexico as part of the (apparently continuing) growth by AS in our fair city. SAN-SJD is going daily double starting in a couple of weeks and SAN-PVR seems to have found a viable year-round niche at 3x weekly.

I'd love to see AS try SAN-GDL. Y4 seems to be having issues from here (and other places to be honest) and to the best of my recollection, we have never had an American carrier try to serve the SAN-GDL market. (DL has had the authority in that market for many years -- I don't think they have retained it recently -- but it was never served.) There have been a few attempts at SAN-GDL by Mexican cx but the competition of lots of cheaper (domestic) service from nearby TIJ airport has undermined the service from Lindbergh. I think AS would stand the best possible chance to do well with local (American) traffic from SAN, as well as some connecting traffic from some of the other new routes in and out of SAN.

SAN-MEX has had successful US-carrier service in the past (mainly from WA for years plus a couple of short-lived attempts by CO.) I think DL could have continued the route but like many of their inherited WA routes, didn't. There is obviously competition from TIJ in this market as well but again, I think AS could make this route work from SAN as well.

AS has obviously done well with the leisure resort traffic from SAN and I don't see why they couldn't get a solid hold on the more business-oriented markets from here as well. I'm sure there is lots of daily traffic between SAN and MEX and a reliable, popular American carrier such as AS should certainly be able to capture enough of the north-of-the-border travelers to operate a daily round trip out of Lindbergh Field.

I could also see SAN-MZT and maybe even a couple of sub-daily QX routes as well on the AS route map. It seems that the issues with Mexican travel are starting to quiet down a bit (as far as news headlines anyway) so I'm hopeful that there may be a slow appearance of new service in some of these SAN-Mexico routes over the next year or two.

bb


User currently offlineTomassjc From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 842 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 10145 times:
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A few of the weekly frequencies dropped by LAX-LAP will be added to LTO in April.

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
They entered into a codeshare with AeroMexico in recent times, will they use this as quasi presence instead?

AM will add their flight number to AS metal only....Not the other way around.

Tomas SJC



When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth with your eyes turned skyward -Leonardo DaVinci
User currently onlinesonomaflyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 1695 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 10071 times:
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To the O.P. - you have to keep in mind that the drug violence is Mexico has devastated their tourism industry. Tourism from the U.S. is way down from times past. The AS service pull-down could be another casualty of the drug war.

You can see a parallel in the cruise industry. Not too long ago, there were several cruise lines serving Mexico from California which included San Pedro, Long Beach and San Diego as home ports. In this coming year, there will be months when San Diego doesn't see a single cruise ship. This is after money was invested in improved facilities for cruise ships and despite the fact the ships dock next door to the airport and several major tourist destinations.

Mazatlan for example won't see a cruise ship according to cruisett.com until November 2013. Even Cabo is only getting a handful of ships per month in the peak periods.

If and when the violence subsides and Mexico can demonstrate its safe to go back, hordes of tourists will return. I'd love to spend time in places like Acapulco and the areas inland but I'd be insane to take my family there given its on a drug trade corridor.


User currently offlineDeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9289 posts, RR: 14
Reply 6, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 10030 times:

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 1):
SJC-PVR
LAX-LAP
LAX-CUN
SFO-CUN
SEA-CUN
SFO-MZT
SFO-ZIH
ONT-MEX
SMF-GDL (which didn't last long)
PHX-SJD
ACA service (not sure of the routing)
PDX-SJD (didn't last long)
PDX-PVR (didn't last long)
SEA-MZT (not sure if this one is coming back)

did they fly SEA-MEX at one point?



yep.
User currently offlineas739x From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6088 posts, RR: 24
Reply 7, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 9999 times:

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 6):

Nope

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 1):
ACA service (not sure of the routing)

How many years you covering? I started with AS in '98 and ACA had been dropped already



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlinejonathanxxxx From United States of America, joined Feb 2011, 673 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 9901 times:

Quoting sonomaflyer (Reply 5):

It's interesting to note though that this is mainly the Pacific coast as CZM and CUN are still doing great as cruise ports.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24813 posts, RR: 46
Reply 9, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 9718 times:

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 1):
That's partially just due to AS's ASM being much greater now than in the mid-2000s also.

True AS has grown, however it certainly has not maintained the same presence to Latin markets as it has in other regions. For example California/West Coast has historically been in the 30% range of ASMs for a long time. Alaska service about 20%. They are about the same today.

Mexico has shrunk, as aptly displayed by your long list of markets which they have exited.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 2):
I see the LAX-PVR flight still exists (with steep fares a month out). So that is the one I care about.

I hear the CalJet shutdown left people high and dry so there is a rush to get seats to the Pacific Coast.

Quoting sonomaflyer (Reply 5):
To the O.P. - you have to keep in mind that the drug violence is Mexico has devastated their tourism industry.

Actually big misnomer

Tourism figures have never been higher.

Mexico sets tourism record despite drug violence
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/worl.../mexico-tourism-drug-violence.html

Travel from US has only seen a 3% decline through the years of violence.

Same thing with capacity to Mexico. Outside the big hit following the Mexicana shutdown, capacity has also bounced back and even grown as others grew their Mexico presence. Alaska on the other hand has shrunk.

On a macro scale, Latin America is the hottest and most profitable region for US airlines. Even Southwest is coming out of its shell with new services to Mexico.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineadamh8297 From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 827 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 9685 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 9):
Same thing with capacity to Mexico. Outside the big hit following the Mexicana shutdown, capacity has also bounced back and even grown as others grew their Mexico presence. Alaska on the other hand has shrunk.

Except for MZT and ACA


User currently offlineas739x From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6088 posts, RR: 24
Reply 11, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 9664 times:

One of the things that led to some withdraw by AS before I left was the taxes. I don't have any figures, but one number I remember was a $200 charge just for the fuelers to hook up. We were tankering on SFO-SJD-SFO flights if the passenger load was light enough.


"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently onlinesonomaflyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 1695 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 9633 times:
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Quoting LAXintl (Reply 9):
Actually big misnomer

Tell that to the Pacific resorts cities outside of Cabo. When our cruise ship stopped in PVD for eight hours, every vendor and service provider asked us to tell folks in the U.S. that the Pacific Coast is safe. Mexican Marines screened off the cruise terminal area and a tour from the same cruise ship was robbed at gun point outside of PVD a couple of weeks earlier. Check out what's been going down in Acapulco.

Mexico is doing well in Cancun and Cozemel. It's doing fine in Baja but the rest of the Pacific Coast is struggling big time. The airlines may be insulated somewhat but the cruise industry certainly isn't.


User currently offlineTomassjc From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 842 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 9605 times:
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Quoting sonomaflyer (Reply 5):
The AS service pull-down could be another casualty of the drug war


C'mon....we are talking Baja California Sur here. Not Ciudad Juarez or Culiacan.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 9):
Travel from US has only seen a 3% decline through the years of violence.

I believe Cabo and Loreto saw even a smaller decline, even in the worst of times. Baja Sur is considered by some as a safe little bubble, being away from the main arteries to the north. Same can be said for the CUN and CZM.

Tomas SJC



When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth with your eyes turned skyward -Leonardo DaVinci
User currently offlineTomassjc From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 842 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 9570 times:
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Quoting as739x (Reply 11):
We were tankering on SFO-SJD-SFO flights if the passenger load was light enough.

We still do. Given it's location, fuel is expensive in SJD.



When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth with your eyes turned skyward -Leonardo DaVinci
User currently offlineas739x From United States of America, joined Apr 2003, 6088 posts, RR: 24
Reply 15, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 9534 times:

Quoting Tomassjc (Reply 14):

I bet. Let's hope the loads stay heavy enough that AS's isn't doing it much.



"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24813 posts, RR: 46
Reply 16, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 9506 times:

Quoting sonomaflyer (Reply 12):
Mexico is doing well in Cancun and Cozemel. It's doing fine in Baja but the rest of the Pacific Coast is struggling big time. The airlines may be insulated somewhat but the cruise industry certainly isn't.

Bottom line is tourism numbers are setting records in Mexico still, and air travel remains strong between the US and Mexico.
According to the DOT for the 12-months ending June 2012 air traffic enplanements were up 4.6% between the nations.

Many airlines are taking advantage of this, while Alaska has let its presence shrink. Point of my thread.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17330 posts, RR: 46
Reply 17, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 9428 times:

West CoastMexico can be brutally cheap, and AS' network outside of SEA/PDX is surprisingly limited--for instance SFO/LAX have very little AS service that is worth connecting to Mexico. If they can't make money on the local, they're out of the market, which is what I think happened in LAXLAP

Quoting SANFan (Reply 3):
I'd love to see AS try SAN-GDL.

SAN-ethnic Mexico is just not going to happen. There's just no reason when TIJ is $100 roundtrip cheaper and right next door.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13508 posts, RR: 62
Reply 18, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 9086 times:
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Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
I noticed in DOT filings that Alaska seeming has dropped another Mexico service.

They filed to inform the DOT that Horizon Air service between LAX and La Paz would be ending on April 6th freeing up the designation for other airlines potentially.

By my estimates this makes over 10 routes which have been dropped over the years.

While we certainly know Hawaii now plays a major part of AS operations, their Mexico flying at one time represented nearly 20% of ASM (peaked in mid 2000's) while in 2012 it down to 7%.

Keep in mind that Mexico service was used primarily to offset the seasonality of the flying to/from the state of Alaska; Hawaii doesn't suffer from such seasonality so extra capacity in wintertime is easily deployed there. Also, U.S. touists are still wary of Mexico following the outbreak of H1N1 there in 2009 coupled with the news stories of violence toward tourists on the rise.

Quoting as739x (Reply 7):
Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 1):ACA service (not sure of the routing)
How many years you covering? I started with AS in '98 and ACA had been dropped already

I've been with AS since 1992, and ACA wasn't served then either.



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlinelaca773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 4002 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 8743 times:
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Quoting SANFan (Reply 3):

I'd love to see AS try SAN-GDL. Y4 seems to be having issues from here (and other places to be honest) and to the best of my recollection, we have never had an American carrier try to serve the SAN-GDL market. (DL has had the authority in that market for many years -- I don't think they have retained it recently -- but it was never served.) There have been a few attempts at SAN-GDL by Mexican cx but the competition of lots of cheaper (domestic) service from nearby TIJ airport has undermined the service from Lindbergh. I think AS would stand the best possible chance to do well with local (American) traffic from SAN, as well as some connecting traffic from some of the other new routes in and out of SAN.

Actually AS has been smart to stay out of SAN-GDL/MEX. It's not worth the effort. I feel Y4 will not last in SAN forever. As you mention, they seem to be having issues with their service. I don't see why they offer flghts from SAN when they are a low cost carrier and have a sizable operation @ TIJ. The costs of operating @ SAN are definitely markedly higher than TIJ. Perhaps they are still there for incentives given to them by SAN airport authority? Further, Y4 has yet to build a remarkable presence @ LAX. Four flights a day on the average is nothing when many thought they would add additonal service since MX's demise.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 6):

did they fly SEA-MEX at one point?

No,. AM did.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 17):
SAN-ethnic Mexico is just not going to happen. There's just no reason when TIJ is $100 roundtrip cheaper and right next door.

  


User currently offlineTomassjc From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 842 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 7993 times:
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Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 18):
I've been with AS since 1992, and ACA wasn't served then either.

If my fuzzy memory serves, AS's first two routes to Mexico were in the mid 80s between SFO-GDL and SFO-ACA with MD80s. I was working for the competition at SFO at the time. As I recall we carried all the leftover bags from the AS GDL flight on our DC-10s. I also remember when AS started SFO-MZT/PVR, they literally stole the market from MX.

I'll have to do a little research when I have time.....

Tomas SJC



When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth with your eyes turned skyward -Leonardo DaVinci
User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12876 posts, RR: 100
Reply 21, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 7959 times:
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Quoting LAXintl (Reply 9):
I hear the CalJet shutdown left people high and dry so there is a rush to get seats to the Pacific Coast.

Thank you. I hadn't paid attention to CalJet. (oops, I should have...)

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 16):
According to the DOT for the 12-months ending June 2012 air traffic enplanements were up 4.6% between the nations.

That is very interesting. Do you know how they are relative to the peak?


Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineDesertAir From Mexico, joined Jan 2006, 1457 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 7876 times:

La Paz is servied by Volaris daily from Tijuana and Aerocalifia has twice weekly service. The economic situations has lowered traffic into Baja. AS once had mainline to Loreto then changed to Horizon.

SAN-ethnic Mexico is just not going to happen. There's just no reason when TIJ is $100 roundtrip cheaper and right next door.

When a flight crosses an international boarder, the taxes are higher. SAN are international flights for Volaris while TIJ flights are domestic. Volaris runs a lot of TIJ-ethnic Mexico flights.


User currently offline737-990 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 365 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 7585 times:

Horizon only serves LAX-LAP 3x weekly, I think that capacity goes to LAX-LTO which goes daily (currently 5x weekly) so really it's a transfer of capacity to another Mexican route.

I think the late 90s/early 200s was the real hayday of AS Mexico service. I remember back in 1997 LAX-SJD was 4x daily and PVR was 2x every day. Now SJD is 2x and PVR just once daily with a second flight on Saturday. Back then the only competition, if there was any was from Mexicana. Slowly U.S. airlines started flying to Mexico and AS Market share began to shrink.



Happiest is a man who has his vocation as a hobby
User currently onlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 2973 posts, RR: 7
Reply 24, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 7555 times:

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 1):
So I get more like 15.

I forgot PHX-PVR too. AS did both SJD and PVR from PHX at time.

AS did ACA according to an older timetable. I don't have it handy, but according to the route map it stopped somewhere else in Mexico - something like LAX-PVR-ACA or something like that.

Wasn't AS planning to serve Oaxaca a few years ago before the drug violence hit?


25 LAXintl : So now that we all agree AS has reduced its Mexico presence and dropped maybe 20 odd routes over the years what is the reason for all this? 1) Did AS
26 EddieDude : That is frankly a huge load of bull. Drug violence on the one hand is localized in very specific areas near the border and in certain other regions.
27 28L28L : Looks like the AS operation at ACA was brief. SFO-GDL-ACA began April, 1989 and ceased October, 1990. Cheers.
28 sonomaflyer : I appreciate the insight Eddie. I shouldn't have implied the entire country is unsafe. There are certainly areas which are fine and largely untouched
29 EA CO AS : The reduction of ASMs to Mexico is twofold: 1. Demand to Mexico began falling like a rock in 2009 2. At the same time, demand - and yields - to Hawai
30 Wingtips56 : But the problem, Eddie, is that at least here on the West Coast, the only news we've been getting is all bad. Average people aren't necessarily disti
31 LAXintl : Well you are right H1N1 pandemic certainly scared people away, and traffic did fall in 2009 by 12%, but this quickly rebounded in 2010 and 2011. Also
32 sonomaflyer : I wouldn't go that far. They made a calculation to put their 738s into ETOP status and fly them to Hawai'i and have made out very well in the process
33 boeing773ER : I've certainly noticed a slow down of cruise ships in Cabo, I stay at a resort where the ships are only a couple hundred meters away. I was there for
34 EA CO AS : AS has instead tried making some headway in the non-beach Mexico markets since the yields are better than the resorts, but Mexico is still a dream co
35 Tomassjc : Actually Wingtips, the ethnic market on AS is going just fine. Besides the obvious GDL and MEX routes, I've seen quite a bit of VFR traffic through r
36 MaverickM11 : It's surprisingly the other way around; by all accounts--other than internal data obviously--GDL/MEX fares are far worse from LAX than SJD for exampl
37 LAXintl : The ethnic market as you mention is often not direct sale - its controlled by consolidators. To succeed in the long run one needs to get into bed wit
38 HiFlyerAS : MEX and GDL are doing just fine...flights are always near capacity. I wouldn't be surprised to see AS someday start service via RJ or mainline to citi
39 MaverickM11 : I'm not sure that's true anymore for the major LAX trunk routes like GDL or MEX. They are so hypercompetive on both sides of the border, and the fare
40 Post contains links LAXintl : Actually the ethnic agents have never been more important. Now with ever more people travelling their business is booming. Amadeus put out an interest
41 MaverickM11 : They are in other areas, but in the LA area to GDL/MEX the fares are so low and the populace is cotinuously conditioned to book more and more travel
42 LAXintl : I am confused. Who do you say is not making money on a $350 GDL ticket? If its the airline, the revenue per mile is over $0.10. That's higher then som
43 EA CO AS : $110.00 of which are taxes.
44 LAXintl : $240 for the airline is almost $0.10/mile on LAX-GDL. Like I said better then what JetBlue or Delta garner on LAX-JFK. Total PRASM in Latin markets -
45 MaverickM11 : A 350 all in roundtrip ticket ends up being about 8.5 cents/mile...the airline needs every last cent they can get from that. Well, DL/B6 transcon far
46 LAXintl : Sure airlines would like every penny/peso they can get, but even the discount Mexico ticket is not as bad as some of the domestic yields in the US. I
47 sxf24 : In 2010, the Mexican market had no major LCCs. It is a completely irrelevant data point compared to today.
48 Post contains links LAXintl : Both Volaris and Interjet have been around since 2005. Plus there has always been a string of other LCCs over the years in Mexico. But still does not
49 DL747400 : That may or may not be true, but this American will not cross the border into your country, nor will I spend my $ there until there is clear reason t
50 sxf24 : What was Volaris and Interjet's share of US-Mexico traffic in 2010? Both airlines have grown exponentially since Mexicana shut down, making compariso
51 Post contains links LAXintl : Who says consolidators are not profitable avenue for airlines serving the region? Having almost 30-years experience (going back to early 1980s) with
52 sxf24 : No one has said consolidators are necessarily unprofitable; however, direct bookings - especially through the airline's website - are more profitable
53 Post contains images MaverickM11 : From LAX? Then either they were traveling at Christmas, in first, or they got scammed. Look at the average fares for US carriers between LAX and GDL
54 LAXintl : Sure, but when direct bookings only make up a sliver of the market, unless if you want to ignore a huge chunk of potential passengers you opt to go w
55 sxf24 : Are you advocating AS chase a huge chunk of less profitable passengers in order to maintain its historic Mexican network? I guess most people would a
56 mercure1 : Yes Mexico is like many other place in Latin America or developing world where travel agents are still very much key link to reach consumers. Certainl
57 LAXintl : At one time AS was the 2nd largest US airline to Mexico and clearly had a good game going. In the years since the market has not shrunk, its actually
58 mercure1 : Sounds like Alaska was not ready to service the market when competition got high. Maybe it was easy for them to be big when there was more a duopoly,
59 Viscount724 : Hasn't the US-Mexico tourist market suffered significantly due to the high crime rate in Mexico and several incidents of murders and other major crim
60 doug_Or : The total market for passengers between the US and Mexico may have grown, but Alaska's Mexican network was very narrowly focused on on taking US citi
61 Post contains images hatbutton : Forgive me if you posted above, but where is this information that you're referring to? I can tell you that the Mexico flying is nowhere near AS's mo
62 BoeingGuy : Great insightful post. I think I read that AM is going to start LAX-LAP. How come AS dropped SEA-CUN too? At first when they announced discontinuing
63 sxf24 : I think LAXintil is - illogically - applying the Latin American yields for U.S. carriers to AS' LAX-Mexico network. The problem is that Latin America
64 MaverickM11 : SEACUN fares are worse than LAXCUN, and SEA is about 25% farther. GDL to anywhere on the West Coast is pretty challenging, but SJD seems to be workin
65 Post contains links LAXintl : Unfortunately the media portrays a story that is not always what the end result is. In reality US - Mexico traffic continues to grow, while Mexico is
66 EA CO AS : Hold on a second; your thread title implies that Mexico flying is reduced overall by AS and when compared to 2008 levels you'd be correct, but this "
67 LAXintl : AS has dropped what 20 - odd city-pairs ? (BoeingGuy put a list together) That's pretty significant pull back both on ASM basis and actual activity ba
68 sxf24 : Why do people portray this as a bad thing? Are you saying AS should keep flying unprofitable routes for the sake of maintaining a certain network?
69 EA CO AS : Read this again. And then before you reply, read it again. And again once more. I'm hoping the numbers sink in and you'll realize how silly it is to
70 mercure1 : Interesting discussion to see how carrier that is once near top of market fall and become smaller presence. So what make so many routes Mexico "unprof
71 hatbutton : Ahh thanks. I couldn't find it. So I read the article and it doesn't tell me much about Mexico. Latin America yes. B6 for instance is mentioned in th
72 BoeingGuy : Thanks. Those were pairs I could think of off the top of my AS-fanboy A.net nerd head. Put it in perspective. During the time that AS dropped those 2
73 Tomassjc : Small correction, both AeroMexico and Volaris fly SMF-GDL
74 Post contains images hatbutton : My bad. You are right. I got keystroke happy
75 Viscount724 : It's hard for legacy carriers to make money on routes with very little premium business traffic and almost all traffic price-sensitive leisure and VF
76 sonomaflyer : Many of the city pairs dropped were leisure focused destinations from the U.S. west coast to the Mexican west coast. I accept that some in this thread
77 mercure1 : Thank you. Interesting how things shift and how once powerful player loses its edge in market. It seems Alaska to be worse off abandoning so many Mex
78 Post contains images PlanesNTrains : and... ...display a general lack of understanding of Alaska and their success. Much of these losses happened due to the economy, gang violence, and H
79 LAXintl : I've said companies are free to utilize their assets as they see fit, but I certainly interesting for me to a company that had such long and well dev
80 sxf24 : Running a network with a longer term perspective is generally a recipe for disaster. I know it is sexy and fun to discuss strategic network decisions
81 hatbutton : I want to put this thread to rest so here is the cold hard truth in numbers. You keep saying demand to Mexico is growing rapidly. However, the number
82 EA CO AS : Paraphrasing a quote from former CEO Bill Ayer, AS used to do silly things like staying in wildly unprofitable markets and calling them "strategic".
83 LAXintl : Yes a number I mentioned in a previously - that's off a record high and because H1N1 caused a 13.2% hit in 2009/2010. However if you look at the last
84 hatbutton : I just don't see how AS is not doing this? It would appear to me putting all their eggs in the Mexico basket is thinking short term strategy no? Nobo
85 hatbutton : I'll throw in some more numbers. Where would AS be most likely to add service to Mexico? From the West Coast. So here's the numbers for WA, OR, CA, NV
86 BoeingGuy : Let's not forget that AS still operates a lot of Mexico flights and routes. While they've right-sized some capacity, it certainly doesn't seem like AS
87 sonomaflyer : Thanks for taking the time to dig up these numbers. I just didn't have the time to track them down and folks on these boards boil at anecdotal eviden
88 hatbutton : I agree. I don't think AS will lead the pack either. But they certainly won't let themselves be left in the dust. Regarding UA, they already compete
89 sonomaflyer : I don't know if there is a three airline limit on service to Mexico destinations. Something tells me the NAFTA agreement made this more of an open ski
90 aaway : No, scheduled and charter air services between the U.S. and Mexico are still governed by bilateral. Off the top of my head, routes involving MEX are
91 Viscount724 : Air transportation was specifically excluded from NAFTA as far as I recall. I find it ironic that U.S.-Mexico, two immediate neighbors that otherwise
92 sonomaflyer : That seems odd given existing services. So from the U.S. to SJD for example we have UA, VX, AS, AA, DL, Frontier, Spirit and US all serving sunny Cab
93 aaway : Perhaps I've mislead you here. SJD is limited to 3 carriers (both sides) for a single route (i.e., LAX - SJD (U.S. designations AA, AS and UA, or LAX
94 PlanesNTrains : I have no affiliation with AS (or any airline) but in my opinion I seriously doubt that Alaska thinks that the Hawaii bubble cannot burst. This happe
95 EA CO AS : Certainly not, and that's why AS is doing their level best to build their franchise in Hawaii while the opportunity still exists to have limited LCC
96 sonomaflyer : Ok that makes sense, thanks for clearing up my confusion!
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