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Central American Aviation Thread. Part 52  
User currently offlineSJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 4615 posts, RR: 4
Posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 13721 times:



THE CENTRAL AMERICAN AVIATION THREAD
PART LII

"Tribute to Air Florida in Central America"

Welcome to the 52th consecutive edition in this series !
Perhaps few people on this board remembered Air Florida touching our regional airports during the early 80s.
I found references about Air Florida flying from Miami to Belize City, Guatemala City, San Salvador, Tegucigalpa, San Pedro Sula and San Jose. Equipments: 727, 737 and DC-10, sometimes.





Edited on February 28th, 2013.


"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
200 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineviaggiare From Costa Rica, joined Jan 2007, 2143 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 13676 times:

According to a story in today's La Nación, IB has named "Costa Rica" the second (EC–LUK) of its five A333s entering service this year.. earlier this month her predecessor (EC–LUB) was named "Tikal" after the magnificent archaeological site in northern Guatemala.

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Thread starter):
Perhaps few people on this board remember Air Florida touching our regional airports

I sure do.. also Eastern and the original PanAm.     



Entre le fort et le faible c’est la liberté qui opprime et la loi qui affranchit.
User currently offline2travel2know2 From Panama, joined Apr 2010, 2705 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 13575 times:

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Thread starter):
"Tribute to Air Florida in Central America"

Late 80's wasn't really an attractive time for a U.S. airlines to open routes to PTY (and MGA). Pretty sure that was why Air Florida never made to PTY.



I'm not on CM's payroll.
User currently offlineyellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6347 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 13550 times:

Quoting viaggiare (Reply 1):
I sure do.. also Eastern and the original PanAm.     

I do too....flew them a few times....including one time BZE-MIA-LGW



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlineSJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 4615 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 13389 times:

Recovered from the 51th edition: the possible service of LH in Panama makes sense in the mid-term considering the vast network offered by CM and Star Alliance at Tocumen International Airport.
CM currently code-shares with IB [OneWorld] and KL [SkyTeam], in order to feed their inter-contentinental flights. Things may dramatically change in the forthcoming year trying to open a new niche for the German airline.




.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 2):
Late 80's wasn't really an attractive time for a U.S. airlines to open routes to PTY (and MGA).


According to some sources on the web, Air Florida operated in Central America from 1981 till 1984.
I don't think any US airline flew to Nicaragua in such filter period.
AeroNica didn't fly to Miami as LaNica did it prior to 1979.

Regards.



"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
User currently offlineyellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6347 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 13198 times:

From the OAG thread....

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*DL LAX-SJO JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>1.0 SEP 0>1.0 OCT 0>1.0 NOV 0>1.0

DL moved up the start date? Were advance bookings that good? or did they find a free aircraft sooner?



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlineSJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 4615 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 13125 times:

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 5):
DL moved up the start date?


I did a quick research at amadeus.net and DL LAX-SJO 7x weekly is due to start on July 01st.
Thus, DL has moved forward their intended plans in such route. The first flight was previously dated on December 19th.

Regards.



"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
User currently offlineyellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6347 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 13117 times:

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 6):
I did a quick research at amadeus.net and DL LAX-SJO 7x weekly is due to start on July 01st.
Thus, DL has moved forward their intended plans in such route. The first flight was previously dated on December 19th.

DL is going to be aggressive this time round.....with better sales teams in place, we are going to see a big push in C America from DL. They want to try to nail down some market before WN enters.

We already see them moving up LAX SJO start date, adding more service to GUA.

within the next 18 months I predict we will see DL from LAX to PTY/BZE/SAL/SAP and additional frequencies on most of the major routes from ATL...even RTB might see some new ATL frequencies. The only wild card is TGU...it has struggled badly, but they might stick it out there in order to keep a full complement of flights to the region.



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offline2travel2know2 From Panama, joined Apr 2010, 2705 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 13052 times:

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 7):
within the next 18 months I predict we will see DL from LAX to PTY/BZE/SAL/SAP and additional frequencies on most of the major routes from ATL.

DL LAX-PTY when CM is flying PTY-LAX thrice daily?
Extra ATL-PTY frequencies may be possible and profitable, but DL LAX-PTY is a disaster about to happen.
If DL wants to be creative, DL should try SLC-PTY instead of LAX-PTY. SLC being a DL hub may consolidate enough passengers from the western U.S. to support a 3-4 per week service to PTY.
If SLC too far west, MSP may be interesting as an alternate for DL Western U.S.-Panama.



I'm not on CM's payroll.
User currently offlineyellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6347 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 13041 times:

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 8):
DL LAX-PTY when CM is flying PTY-LAX thrice daily?

So? That means the market may now be big enough to support a non Star carrier.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 8):
SLC being a DL hub may consolidate enough passengers from the western U.S. to support a 3-4 per week service to PTY.

LAX is almost a hub now, have you seen all the additions recently. And LAX has much more O&D to PTY than SLC. If LAX can't work, there is no way in hell SLC will work.

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 8):
MSP may be interesting as an alternate for DL Western U.S.-Panama.

Not going to happen. It is too far north and PTY is much less leisure than say SJO.



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offline2travel2know2 From Panama, joined Apr 2010, 2705 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 13026 times:

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 9):
So? That means the market may now be big enough to support a non Star carrier.

Good luck to DL in the LAX-PTY route.
There are no LAX-PTY arrivals early morning and no PTY-LAX red-eyes departures.. So the same DL aircraft flying ATL-PTY could take-off to LAX a couple of hours later; depart early evening LAX-PTY and continue to ATL early next morning.



I'm not on CM's payroll.
User currently offlineyellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6347 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 12999 times:

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 10):
There are no LAX-PTY arrivals early morning and no PTY-LAX red-eyes departures.. So the same DL aircraft flying ATL-PTY could take-off to LAX a couple of hours later; depart early evening LAX-PTY and continue to ATL early next morning.

Ahhh ..now you are beginning to think like an airline person. Its about asset allocation and utilisation.

Instead of the aircraft RONing at PTY....it gets a fresh crew and turns to LAX...essentially passing another DL aircraft (LAX-PTY) in the air. That south bound aircraft is on the ground in PTY in time for the morning ATL flight.

As long as they can break even on the route itself it is an overall win for the company.



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlineSJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 4615 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 12873 times:

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 7):
DL is going to be aggressive this time round.....with better sales teams in place, we are going to see a big push in C America from DL.


I'm still a little bit skeptical concerning to a huge expansion of Delta Air Lines in Central America.
The Atlanta - Central America sector has suffered few changes during the last five years, in terms of weekly frequencies as well as new equipment. On the other hand, their competitors have been more aggressive in our region: UA [IAH - Central America] and AA [MIA - Central America].
I don't want to talk again about the catastrophic [JFK - Latin America] experiment in 2008, where DL JFK-BOG is the sole survivor. Needless to say that all their Central American routes were rapidly retired.
We'll follow carefully the progress on DL LAX-SJO 7x weekly from July 01st. Everything seems to be all right now !

Regards.



"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
User currently offlineviaggiare From Costa Rica, joined Jan 2007, 2143 posts, RR: 7
Reply 13, posted (1 year 9 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 12746 times:

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 11):
Its about asset allocation and utilisation

Speaking of asset optimization, Air Panamá (7P) has found a niche doing vip charters on the side.. here is HP–1764PST upon arrival last week in CCS.



Entre le fort et le faible c’est la liberté qui opprime et la loi qui affranchit.
User currently offline2travel2know2 From Panama, joined Apr 2010, 2705 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 12672 times:

Quoting viaggiare (Reply 13):
Speaking of asset optimization, Air Panamá (7P) has found a niche doing vip charters on the side.. here is HP–1764PST upon arrival last week in CCS.

Last year I saw it on CUR.
7P also flew the Panamanian national football team to Dominica for a match there.
Don't really know what those 7P people have on their minds.. The airline could be more creative with its use of its fleet, 7P still have some room to grow.



I'm not on CM's payroll.
User currently offlineyellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6347 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 12636 times:

Quoting viaggiare (Reply 13):
Speaking of asset optimization, Air Panamá (7P) has found a niche doing vip charters on the side.. here is HP–1764PST upon arrival last week in CCS.

Don't they have sort of relationship with CM now too?



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offline2travel2know2 From Panama, joined Apr 2010, 2705 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 12622 times:

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 15):
Don't they have sort of relationship with CM now too?

Yes flying domestic passengers between PTY and BOC.
Not sure if 7P would operate flights on behalf of CM when CM hasn't gotten equipment available due to maintenance or other reasons.



I'm not on CM's payroll.
User currently offlineyellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6347 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 12564 times:

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 12):
We'll follow carefully the progress on DL LAX-SJO 7x weekly from July 01st. Everything seems to be all right now !

Lots of us will and we might have more than just LAX SJO to follow. I would be really surprised if DL did not put in SAL-LAX for a Dec start.

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 12):
The Atlanta - Central America sector has suffered few changes during the last five years, in terms of weekly frequencies as well as new equipment.

Well they have moved around aircraft in the region 75s, 73s, 319s Md88s. All the CR9 seem to be gone permanently. GUA has seen frequency upgrades as recently as the last OAG update. BZE keeps growing and growing for them. RTB seems to be growing slowly as well. LIR is supposedly the stellar performer in the region for them. So it is not stagnant. The only weak place seems to be TGU, but then again UA is hardly minting it there as well.



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlineSJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 4615 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 12526 times:

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 17):
I would be really surprised if DL did not put in SAL-LAX for a Dec start.


Agreed, the market is indeed there. The SAL-LAX sector is operated by TA up to 21x weekly sometimes; it is 18x weekly for the time being. AA LAX-SAL and the former CO also flew that segment before.
I'm not worried about the predominance of TA in such route. Let's take a look about the commented situation on TA GUA-MEX which is no longer in service.




.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 17):
Well they have moved around aircraft in the region 75s, 73s, 319s Md88s. All the CR9 seem to be gone permanently. GUA has seen frequency upgrades as recently as the last OAG update. BZE keeps growing and growing for them. RTB seems to be growing slowly as well. LIR is supposedly the stellar performer in the region for them. So it is not stagnant. The only weak place seems to be TGU, but then again UA is hardly minting it there as well.


If we make an analysis about the progress of DL in Central America in the past ten years, it cannot be fairly compared with UA:

United Airlines in Central America. 2013

UA EWR-BZE: 2x weekly
UA IAH-BZE: 16x weekly
UA EWR-GUA: 1x weekly
UA IAH-GUA: 19x weekly
UA IAH-RTB: 8x weekly
UA EWR-SAP: 1x weekly
UA IAH-SAP: 9x weekly
UA IAH-TGU: 7x weekly
UA EWR-SAL: 1x weekly
UA IAH-SAL: 22x weekly
UA IAH-MGA: 14x weekly
UA ORD-LIR: 3x weekly
UA EWR-LIR: 7x weekly
UA IAH-LIR: 17x weekly
UA EWR-SJO: 14x weekly
UA IAH-SJO: 28x weekly
UA EWR-PTY: 9x weekly
UA IAH-PTY: 14x weekly

My point is clearly identified by itself.


Regards.



"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
User currently offlineviaggiare From Costa Rica, joined Jan 2007, 2143 posts, RR: 7
Reply 19, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 12507 times:

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 17):
LIR is supposedly the stellar performer in the region for them

I'm happy for Delta.. Liberia remained largely stagnant for over a quarter century until it took off with their arrival in 2002.. gotta thank Alan Kelso (Four Seasons) and Hoover Gordon–Patillo (Hacienda Pinilla) for persuading Leo Mullin (former DL CEO) with the help of US$3M in revenue guarantees.. although CO and AA soon followed, it was DL along with the Four Seasons (which gave Guanacaste the credibility to attract other luxury developers) that drove the construction boom which soon followed.



Entre le fort et le faible c’est la liberté qui opprime et la loi qui affranchit.
User currently offlineSJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 4615 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 12501 times:

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 18):
United Airlines in Central America. 2013

UA EWR-BZE: 2x weekly
UA IAH-BZE: 16x weekly
UA EWR-GUA: 1x weekly
UA IAH-GUA: 19x weekly
UA IAH-RTB: 8x weekly
UA EWR-SAP: 1x weekly
UA IAH-SAP: 9x weekly
UA IAH-TGU: 7x weekly
UA EWR-SAL: 1x weekly
UA IAH-SAL: 22x weekly
UA IAH-MGA: 14x weekly
UA ORD-LIR: 3x weekly
UA EWR-LIR: 7x weekly
UA IAH-LIR: 17x weekly
UA EWR-SJO: 14x weekly
UA IAH-SJO: 28x weekly
UA EWR-PTY: 9x weekly
UA IAH-PTY: 14x weekly

I missed UA IAD-SAL 7x weekly which is available since December 2012.
Four stations out of the USA towards Central America completing 199 weekly frequencies !

Regards.



"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
User currently offlineyellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6347 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 12456 times:

As per OAG thread .....DL ATL-BZE NOV 1.0>1.2..the also upgraded GUA. DL is finally up to more than 1Xdaily on ATL-BZE.


When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlineyellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6347 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 12434 times:

Also

TA LAX-SAL APR 1.6>3 MAY 1.6>3 JUN 1.5>3 JUL 2>3 AUG 2>3 SEP 1.6>3 OCT 1.6>3 NOV 1.6>3

IMHO they are trying to tell AS and DL to not even consider this market.



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offline2travel2know2 From Panama, joined Apr 2010, 2705 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 12419 times:

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 22):
IMHO they are trying to tell AS and DL to not even consider this market.

IMHO, LAX-GUA/SAL traffic could well support another airline.
If DL already has a presence @ GUA and SAL and it's adding more operations @ LAX, that's the most likely candidate for those routes from U.S: side.
If AS or NK wants into the California - GUA/SAL market.. maybe it's time for them to study ONT (or SNA) -GUA/SAL and OAK (or SJC )-SAL before WN makes a move into those markets.
SAL may even be able to support some frequency of SAN-SAL, SMF-SAL and LAS-SAL.



I'm not on CM's payroll.
User currently offlineaer From Guatemala, joined Mar 2004, 1048 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (1 year 9 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 12413 times:

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 21):
the also upgraded GUA.

DL's GUA upgrade is seasonal, then it's back to the terrible schedule we have.



nice and spacious airports in need of new airlines and flights... GUA or FRS anyone?... anyone at all?
25 SJOtoLIR : TA served the SAL-OAK sector in 2007 and it didn't last too much. If I remember correctly, the service called SAL-SFO was suspended in favor to SAL-O
26 viaggiare : The route was 3x weekly (sooo TACA) from the start until it was quietly dropped.. coincidentally there was a Salvadoran national sitting on the Oakla
27 troest : What German airline do you mean? Lufthansa, Condor ?
28 sfjeff : This is not correct. TACA never suspended SFO in favor of OAK. IRC, there was a reduction at SFO from 10 or so flights a week to 7 during the period
29 SJOtoLIR : We were speaking in the last Cent Am thread about the possibility of any LH FRA-PTY. Having IB from OneWorld and KL from SkyTeam, the possibility of
30 yellowtail : TA has served SFO for many many years. I once flew it on their 733 where we stopped in MZT for fuel both ways. I Was always surprised that they manag
31 Post contains images SJOtoLIR : If I recall correctly, TA SAL-SFO was served even during the 80s when the former TA had the 762 equipment. Hence, some stations such as IAD, LAX, SFO
32 juanchito : If I remember correctly Aviateca served GUA-ORD with 733 Juanchito
33 Post contains images B747_A340 : Those flights had a tech stop in MSY
34 juanchito : Thanks for the info Juanchito
35 yellowtail : I took the SFO flight many times.....an never ever had a 762. Was always a 733 packed to the gills with a tech stop in MZT. I once asked a senior off
36 viasa : Which airline of the AviancaTaca Group will get the first ATR72-600? Is it Avianca Colombia (Fokker 50 replacement), La Costeña, Islena Airlines or A
37 Post contains images 2travel2know2 : Panama Aeroperlas?
38 SJOtoLIR : It's a good point. The 762 seems too much for SAL-SFO as non-stop and 25 years backward.
39 Post contains links viasa : Afaik they had suspendet its operation about a year ago: http://www.ch-aviation.ch/portal/news/8518 So I don't think that they get ATR72-600s...
40 juanchito : I think it was sarcasm. If i remember correctly the first ATR72-600 will be going to Central America so it basically going to Guatemala or Honduras.
41 yellowtail : So the most probable routes would be GUA-FRS or SAP-RTB?
42 juanchito : This flights como to mind. GUA-FRS GUA-TGU GUA-SAP SAP-RTB SAP-SJO TGU-SJO TGU-SAL Juanchito
43 viaggiare : CM has inaugurated its newest Copa Club (membership airport lounge program jointly operated with UA) in SJO.. six thousand square feet.. seating for o
44 2travel2know2 : I predict CM Clubs in MGA and HAV soon. If they could find some room @ MIA for it, that'll be another good airport to open one.
45 Post contains images viaggiare : So who's turf is SJO now, señor Kriete? Cuánto diera viejo amor, tenerte de nuevo en mí aunque sea por un instante, sé muy bien que te perdí y qu
46 Post contains links 2travel2know2 : AV got rid of its TA surname from Revista Summa in Spanish. During Avianca Taca Holding S.A. (Inc,) stock holders meeting in Panama (of all places) th
47 viaggiare : LOL but isn't the holding domiciled in Panama (neutral ground) since its inception?
48 RCS763AV : No, it's because the holding company has it's domicile in Panama due to tax reasons. Legally, at least in Colombia, you can't celebrate the board mee
49 2travel2know2 : That'd have been a source of lots of Costeño pride that after so many years of AV incorporation and being BOG its major base/hub the meetings were s
50 yellowtail : Does anyone hav any clue when we will see the next round of CMs route announcement...a couple were due in March....but March is about to end and with
51 2travel2know2 : i've no clue when CM would make the new destination announcements, but since I could guess CM wants to cash on the FIFA world cup Brazil 2014, SSA co
52 Post contains links copa330200 : according to Panama Prensa British Airways will land in PTY by the end of 2013. http://www.prensa.com/impreso/economia/negocios-la-hora-del-te/165392
53 summa767 : Could be. Especially is the Panamanian government offers money incentives, such as it does to other European airlines. BA is receiving new long haul
54 2travel2know2 : A BA LGW-PTY is what The Panama Tourist Authority have been trying to get from BA for quite some time. They knew the chances of getting something out
55 Post contains images copa330200 : 100% agree I´ll love to see BA and other airlines ( LH) coming to PTY in the near future !!! that will be awason !!! but BA within this year since I
56 SJOtoLIR : Perhaps any triangular route is a valid choice for Copa Airlines in the future. For illustrative purposes, AA MIA-CWB-POA-MIA will begin on December
57 viaggiare : Saw KX bird VP-CKY sitting on the apron at SJO yesterday 3/23 at 1630Z by the main pax terminal nowhere near the COOPESA hangar. Wonder what she was u
58 2travel2know2 : For CM both POA and CWB are markets which could sustain non-stop on their own. A CM PTY-CWB-POA-PTY route would only make less attractive CM in both
59 SJOtoLIR : Speaking about Copa Airlines, the 738 is the exclusive aircraft in their high density routes. No more 73Gs on the following segments lately: CM PTY-GR
60 yellowtail : Tropic Air commenced service to Cancun on Monday from BZE. This flight markes the resumption of air links between the two countries.
61 Post contains links copa330200 : http://www.prensa.com/impreso/econom...ama-negocia-acuerdos-aereos/166737 based on the article, 1- PTY is expecting to land 2 new airline by the end o
62 2travel2know2 : Add to those the bilateral agreements with Israel, Egypt, Turkey, Jordan and Qatar. Not sure what'd they be good for right-now but they'd have some v
63 SJOtoLIR : As of April 15th, Avianca is implementing its AV code in selected flights operated by TA/LR nowadays. The current operations will keep the schedule, f
64 Post contains links 2travel2know2 : It's all up to what else the Canadians are willing to allow CM. For CM, Canada-Latin America demand is so critical that the airline just can't be cry
65 SJOtoLIR : From the above press release in Spanish: "Una vez esté habilitada la nueva terminal sur, el aeropuerto tendrá la capacidad para manejar 15 millones
66 avi8 : I wonder when we will here about expansion at GUA. The airport had a 6% increase in passengers for 2012. GUA handled almost the same as SAL if not mor
67 2travel2know2 : Right now I don't know about that, I've not seen where the future 3rd and 4th runways would go and the area around the "newest" runway is going to be
68 SJOtoLIR : I foresee PTY as one of the most successful Latin American airports by 2025. In terms of the Central American landscape, it has by far surpassed the l
69 yellowtail : I am hearing rumblings once again that both AV and CM are being solicited heavily by the Skyteam partners to leave Star. Lots of promises about new lo
70 2travel2know2 : Star Alliance Far East airlines haven't been that much receptive to CM (and Panama in general) wish for a PTY-Asia direct flight. So Sky trying to wo
71 SJOtoLIR : It won't be easy for SkyTeam grouping as AV-TA are promoting its commercial relation with Star Alliance as follows: "Avianca and Taca are proud of be
72 SJOtoLIR : TA SAL-MCO 4x weekly with E90 will also experience the AV code from April 22nd as follows: AV 422 SAL-MCO AV 423 MCO-SAL This will be the first flight
73 avi8 : I wonder if TA/AV will re-start GUA-MCO again for the summer season. Any rumors on prospective routes?
74 2travel2know2 : Pretty sure lots of seats on those AV SAL-MCO are sold as Orlando holiday programmes from BOG or LIM and beyond.
75 yellowtail : Maybe, but from those markets would be better on CM. there is sizeable SJO/GUA/SAL family traffic to MCO during the school holiday period.....but fly
76 RCS763AV : BOG has daily flights to MCO on both AV and B6...the only reason people would take a connecting flight through SAL or PTY would be a much lower fare
77 viaggiare : At what point does pulling the plug altogether on certain routes —especially those where their weaknesses become more apparent— make more sense t
78 Post contains images yellowtail : You know we are taking about AV/TA right?
79 viaggiare : Thrice-weekly Airlines, you said?
80 yellowtail : Tropic Air will further increase its SAP-BZE to daily effective May 1. The added 2 days will see evening (RON) service vs the current late morning fli
81 viaggiare : First time BZE plays the role of international hub? How much time are we talking about, including layover?
82 Post contains images SJOtoLIR : AV SAL-MCO is barely served as 4x weekly with the 100-seater E90 whilst CM PTY-MCO is flown as 21x weekly and it's grabbing the biggest chunk of the
83 yellowtail : No...long gone...along with the airline. 2hrs.55min from SAP to CUN Heck of a lot better than driving! The next hub of the Americas! Actually pax fro
84 aer : Considering how high fares are on GUA-FRS (yes I'm looking at you TA) I'm not surprised.
85 yellowtail : Another big announcement expected from Tropic next week.....there is a teaser on their FB page https://www.facebook.com/pages/Tropic-Air-Belize/340653
86 avi8 : I would like to comment that this is a good year for SJO. DL is adding its daily to LAX and JetBlue is adding its daily flight to FLL. TA has been kin
87 Post contains images yellowtail : Big Announcements for BZE coming ...and I am not counting Tropic starting CUN and their announcement next week.
88 SJOtoLIR : Both UA IAD-SJO 1x weekly with 738 and UA ORD-SJO 1x weekly with 738 just began on April 13th. . Correct. Almost one year has passed since TA opened
89 Post contains links and images carmenlu15 : Those tickets are usually cheaper if you buy them through a tour operator... not that I disagree with you that they're too high, mind you! Speaking o
90 mabadia71 : Right now the plan is for some of the ATR-72 to go to Central America, 7 IIRC, and the rest to BOG. I believe there is a big chance that AV will conv
91 yellowtail : Well if CM starts BZE, we might see TA move to a ATR on SAL-BZE because CM will take all the traffic away heading from about SJO southward. TA will be
92 carmenlu15 : Hopefully some of them will go to the GUA-TGU route... those flights are always full!
93 Post contains links yellowtail : Tropic Air Announces BZE-RTB Press Release San Pedro, Ambergris Caye, Belize, April 29, 2013 TROPIC AIR ANNOUNCES SERVICE TO ROATAN, HONDURAS Tropic A
94 juanchito : And they are charging and average of $500.00 USD on an ATR42 on a 1 hour flight. Juanchito[Edited 2013-04-29 18:19:20]
95 viaggiare : This would've been unthinkable five years ago.. the cartel's collapse has brought with it an unexpected surprise.
96 yellowtail : And there is probably more to come....
97 Post contains images SJOtoLIR : Any CM PTY-BZE on a daily basis as non-stop sounds too much for this possible new route. San Pedro Sula and Tegucigalpa were small markets for Copa A
98 AA767LOVER : People wanting to fly from HK to Latin America are paying anywhere from $10000 HKD (base price) to $17000 HKD to Central and South America. It's crazy
99 yellowtail : Apples to Oranges. TGU and SAP do not have near the tourism market that BZE does. The PDEW is sizable between PTY and BZE alone. and the yields incre
100 2travel2know2 : Rumour is: add IQT to those new CM under-performing destinations.
101 Post contains images yellowtail : I have heard that REC, LIR and IQT are all underperforming...with LIR and REC running a close race for Stinker. Here is tropic's latest updated route
102 juanchito : I remember correctly that in June 2013 AviancaTaca will receive the first ATR72. Are those plane still on schedule to arrive in that date. Who will re
103 2travel2know2 : IMHO, winner hands down: LIR. I don't know of an Star Alliance airline flying LIR-MIA, so if CM wants to try something daring, how about twice weekly
104 SJOtoLIR : The tourism market is centralized from the USA and it wouldn't magically come from South America and the Caribbean through PTY. Ask it to CM PTY-LIR
105 2travel2know2 : POS is almost twice daily right-now. We won't see a frequency increase on PTY-MAR/VLN. Only chances for CM increasing frequencies to MAR/VLN would be
106 yellowtail : Doesn't need the average ...only about 100 a day need to buy a ticket. I wish I could explain. There a few lurkers around her that know exactly what
107 SJOtoLIR : The civil aviation authorities from Argentina have pursued the protectionism of its own market and I highly doubt about the opening of new stations.
108 avi8 : I wonder when CM will expand in other places that is not PTY. PTY can only grow so much and they can't and shouldn't put all of their eggs in one bask
109 yellowtail : a) buy BW and open a second hub there at POS b) open a second hub at GUA
110 Post contains images carmenlu15 : I am totally on board with that idea!
111 2travel2know2 : There's fleet commonality between BW and CM but other than that just need to remember how Jamaica reacted to the Trini take-over of Air Jamaica to se
112 Post contains images yellowtail : I perceive the Trini's to be a bit more pragmatic on investments subjects than the Jamaicans. BZE already offers 5th freedoms....hell CM should just
113 Post contains links and images SJOtoLIR : Copa Airlines has already built a focus city in San Jose: Guatemala City: 1x CM + 1x Copa Colombia San Pedro Sula: 1x Tegucigalpa: 1x Managua: 2x Pan
114 aer : I posted this question in another thread, but I also wanted to post it here. I'm wondering is how are AV gonna manage the flags on the new livery; wil
115 SJOtoLIR : It's a good question. The different national flags painted into the fuselage has been a practice followed by GRUPO TACA. One more point: GRUPO TACA h
116 aer : And the thing about the flags is that not all the countries give all the freedoms to foreign carriers, so that's where my question comes from; becaus
117 Post contains images SJOtoLIR : AV didn't purchase TA. The merger AV-TA is being unified into the AV brand solely where the former Avianca is getting the 2/3 of the capital. The tra
118 aer : Thanks for the explanation, I get it now, the brand is changing, not the a/c reg or nationality.
119 Post contains images carmenlu15 : I guess it's much like the TG- or HR- registered ATRs both bearing the TACA Regional titles (but having their respective flags painted). Gonna miss '
120 yellowtail : Multiple Dickie birds are chirping loudly about some surprise announcements for our Central American fans in a few weeks.
121 Post contains links 2travel2know2 : Airlines interested in MPRH Rio Hato Airport from www.prensa.com in Spanish According to Panama Civil Aviation Authority boss, 4 airlines (all Canadia
122 yellowtail : Are there even 4 Canadian charter companies....I know of Sunwing, Air Transat.....
123 Post contains links juanchito : According to this article Avianca-Taca will discontinue the following flights from SJO SJO-LAX SJO-HAV SJO-JFK SJO-UIO SJO-GYE http://www.nacion.com/2
124 mingocr83 : Well 261 people were axed from the SJO base today. Feel sorry for those folks...38 pilots, the rest was a split between cabin crew, counter and ops.
125 avi8 : Sad to see so many routes being axed. What does this mean for SJO? Will AV/TA focus on having one hub at Central America rather than two?
126 summa767 : Also SJO-PTY and SJO PTY-MDE Bad news indeed for the staff who have lost their jobs. As for the way that Avianca-Taca handled the cancelation of thes
127 avi8 : Those routes were not mentioned in the article. Heck, SJO is now only slightly larger than GUA before these cuts were made. GUA serves SAP, TGU, ORD,
128 yellowtail : Well DL will pick up the LAX slack at SJO. That was not the announcment(s) I was referring to. A few more days before it is made.
129 yellowtail : I believe this is only the first tranche. we probably will see some more P2P dissappear in the coming months.IMHO CM will benefit from these cuts mor
130 Post contains images copa330200 : 100% aligned, hope CM expands it's operation so they can hire them
131 Post contains links summa767 : MGA gets the chop too! And next month SJO-LIM, as well as TGU-MIA Full statement here, which only came late in the day yesterday, the day that the cu
132 avi8 : So is SJO still a hub or is it a focus city like GUA now? Also, what are the service increases from SAL? Where are all these extra planes going? I nev
133 juanchito : Does it have to do with Jetblue plans in FLL? Juanchito
134 aer : Wow so they are really GUA-ing SJO, but how are they gonna supplement it if AV doesn't fly to all of CentAm from BOG?
135 yellowtail : No more lechero BZE-SAL-SJO-PTY for me I guess. Dear CM, we are desperate in BZE now!
136 Post contains images carmenlu15 : Seriously?! What in the world is AV/TA thinking?! A little advance notice wouldn't have hurt -- I have a couple of passengers coming from PTY on Monda
137 CRFLY : This is one of the most horrendous HR move I've seen in LACSA since the pilot strike back in the 90s. Most of my friends at LR are gone now, and the s
138 mingocr83 : Oficial List of Axed routes https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/268815_10200607672986562_250453604_n.jpg
139 2travel2know2 : One could have expected a bit flight cancellations advance notice, but how AV/TA has behaved with SJO and those flights passengers is unprofessional a
140 aer : Seriously I would've expected this from an airline like NK but AV/TA just threw their brand down the drain. I guess the playing field may become frie
141 carmenlu15 : Why am I not that surprised? They had a knack for sending cancellation notices late on a Sunday afternoon -- not an easy task to try to contact passe
142 MGASJO : It seems CM is not wasting any time. They are in big need of pilots and will go to SJO to do some recruiting. Monday and Tuesday! Great move!
143 mt99 : Agreed. TA/AV needed to cut their losses with SJO - but there are proper ways to do things and this is not one of them. Shame indeed So what happenin
144 Post contains images copa330200 : that's great news for the people who lost their jobs now, there is clearly an opportunity for the Embraer pilots however I'm not sure how it works fo
145 mingocr83 : Not only that, even Skymark has sent job offers to several pilots for A330 with several benefits.. QR sent a hiring crew for both pilots and cabin cre
146 SCL767 : Indeed, LAN wants to hire all the redundant TACA pilots on contract for both the LIM and BOG bases. LAN is also offering contracts to TACA A320 pilot
147 CRFLY : What a big mess! According to my friends that were fired, and some others who stayed in AV/TA, they continue to fire people Saturday and Sunday! And t
148 Post contains images 2travel2know2 : 2-4 daily bus runs between Panama and San José may be a proof of that. IMHO, the only routes which may support CM off-hub banks departures/arrivals
149 Post contains images carmenlu15 : I feel for them. Been there, done that, not fun at all. Though in my case, the airport (and the whole city) was covered by volcanic ash and airspace
150 Post contains images carmenlu15 : Lovely. One of the GUA-SJO daily flights is no longer showing in Amadeus after June 16, even though it's not on the list...
151 yellowtail : As I said...more cancellations are coming.
152 SJOtoLIR : I'm still in shock due to the recent announcements. My conclusion is that SJO was not running profitable and the headquarters in Bogota decided to dro
153 2travel2know2 : You mean Westjet WS? Yes CM has 7 daily flights between PTY and SJO, none of those with a PTY departure before 0700h and PTY arrival after 2100h that
154 yellowtail : Air Canada and Westjet are not charter companies (although I guess one could charter from them). So we have Air Transat, Can Jet and Sunwing......mis
155 2travel2know2 : Perhaps the idea with MPRH Rio Hato airport is that AC and WS will fly there like some airlines fly into LIR, with contracted for X amount seats by w
156 SJOtoLIR : I recently watched the news on TV and SJO is promoting the routes abandoned by AV-TA to several airlines. "We kindly announce the first replacement fo
157 Post contains images viaggiare : Such massive outpour of disapproval.. even the staunchest cheerleaders are in agreement. I believe this had little if any bearing on recent events, b
158 mingocr83 : Rumor says that MEX and MIA will be axed as well in December....that should set the fate for SJO as hub. That should allow AMX to launch a late flight
159 Post contains links 2travel2know2 : CM aircraft skids off PTY runway from www.prensa.com in Spanish CM301 arriving from GYE skided off PTY runway yesterday evening while landing under a
160 aer : With GUA yes, since it has given most freedoms, except for internal flights.
161 SJOtoLIR : As per June 16th, these are the confirmed withdrawals: TA/LR [SJO-LIM] 13x to 7x weekly TA [SAL-TGU-MIA] 7x weekly TA [SJO-GUA] 14x to 7x weekly . AM
162 aer : Wasn't AV-TA gonna release the new image two days ago?
163 avi8 : Si is are the remaining SJO flights still banked? CM Needs to seize this opportunity.
164 SJOtoLIR : San Jose is already the third destination for Copa Airlines, in terms of the demand of passengers yearly. CM PTY-SJO is 42x weekly nowadays. . And we
165 SCL767 : At least Santiago de Chile will still have a daily direct service to San José de Costa Rica via LIM for now...
166 juanchito : May 28 is the day.
167 Post contains images carmenlu15 : No kidding! And as Juanchito rightly points out, it's next Tuesday...
168 yellowtail : I recognize that AV wants to streamline the operation but they could have done it with a bit more class that doesn't bring ill will to their customer
169 Post contains images aer : Some one in BOG thought, why not trash our image when we're introducing a new one...
170 Post contains images SJOtoLIR : TA/LR [SJO-LIM-SCL] 7x weekly will be the only flight connecting San Jose and Lima. I don't think the authorities of Avianca would definitely drop th
171 Post contains images copa330200 : based on AV-TA changes that might improve very fast, I really hope CM pick some of the routes like SJO - MIA and SJO -MEX thought not sure CM has spa
172 SJOtoLIR : 2012: Panama AeroPerlas left. 2013: SJO is dismantled. What's next? . I fortunately still haven't read about massive stranded passengers due to the r
173 carmenlu15 : They are doing that in some cases... the passenger we had coming in on Monday was rerouted with CM.
174 2travel2know2 : I'd bet some people @ CM are studying right now (or perhaps again?) CM flying SJO/MGA/GUA-MIA. CM may not be allowed to fly PTY-SJO-MEX due to Panama
175 avi8 : I could see CM adding a third daily SJO-GUA given that TA is reducing frequency. I fear that the TA p2p routes will vanish. Who will take over remains
176 Post contains images 2travel2know2 : For Central American routes those would be King Quality, Vianna, Panaline and Tica Bus.
177 yellowtail : 2012: Isleña? Or in our part of the isthmus, Linea Dorada and ADO
178 yellowtail : I just noticed that RTB-ATL is a a 752 for the summer. Nice little upgrade for our friends from the Bay Islands.
179 Post contains images copa330200 : agree but not sure they have spare aircraft
180 2travel2know2 : f the loads on PTY-SJO-SAP aren't that great maybe a tag-on to GUA from SAP may look interesting, thus a 3rd SJO-GUA.
181 Post contains images SJOtoLIR : I don't visualize that the "de-hubbing" process equates to a huge spread of Copa Airlines at SJO. Most of the extinct routes corresponds to destinati
182 yellowtail : Well it was asked which was next. It has long been rumored that Islena loses money. The OLD TA tried to sell it a few times. As a non core asset (lik
183 yellowtail : Now Bookable...... Start dates vary.......BZE LAX is Dec 21 for example JFKGUA 0830 1300 // GUAJFK 1400 1945 (737-700) LAXBZE 0020 0700 // BZELAX 1030
184 juanchito : Excellent do you know frequency for each flight. Also the Arrival time into JFK from GUA seems odd. Juanchito
185 yellowtail : Early morning typo!
186 SJOtoLIR : Interesting news ! I've already check the frequencies at amadeus.net and found nothing. Thus, these operations are not confirmed yet. DL JFK-GUA was
187 yellowtail : Its bookable on Delta.com...probably hasn't propagated out as yet.
188 avi8 : When is Dl making the official announcement? I'm curious about the frequencies.
189 yellowtail : Playing around with Delta.com they look to be Sat only. Press Releases are usually done on weekdays but with the holiday monday, guess we might not s
190 yellowtail : Now they all seem to be gone from delta.com......hmmmmmm
191 carmenlu15 : I see the flights loaded in Amadeus but they're not showing availability yet...
192 Post contains links SJOtoLIR : The attachment in Spanish language states about how TA didn't notify with authorities the withdrawal of the discussed flights through SJO. http://www.
193 yellowtail : I see it.....they had inventory available this morning....but disappeared about 2 hours later......maybe they are adjusting something. I smell a fine
194 viaggiare : Their disregard for mandatory (formal) procedures might seem appalling, but the spinmeister extraordinaire sees no issue in failing to officially inf
195 aer : Doña Arenas is using excessive semantics here... but then again she's done her job since the Aviateca days and that's why they've (AV-TA) kept her.
196 SJOtoLIR : I did a new research at amadeus.net and all the intended flights are loaded: DL LAX-BZE; 1x weekly on Saturdays DL JFK-GUA; 1x weekly on Saturdays DL
197 aer : I would've loved a bit more originality on the day though, UA already has its EWR flight on Saturdays.
198 SJOtoLIR : Same with UA EWR-SAL, UA EWR-BZE, UA IAD-GUA, UA ORD-SJO and UA IAD-SJO. Regards.
199 aer : True; I also find a little weird the start date, it's far after the holiday/shopping travel dates.
200 Post contains links SJOtoLIR : The new edition is already running. Follow up ! Central American Aviation Thread. Part 53 (by SJOtoLIR May 27 2013 in Civil Aviation) Moderators, plea
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