SJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 4128 posts, RR: 5 Posted (3 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 9785 times:
THE CENTRAL AMERICAN AVIATION THREAD
PART LII
"Tribute to Air Florida in Central America"
Welcome to the 52th consecutive edition in this series !
Perhaps few people on this board remembered Air Florida touching our regional airports during the early 80s.
I found references about Air Florida flying from Miami to Belize City, Guatemala City, San Salvador, Tegucigalpa, San Pedro Sula and San Jose. Equipments: 727, 737 and DC-10, sometimes.
viaggiare From Costa Rica, joined Jan 2007, 2053 posts, RR: 9 Reply 1, posted (3 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 9740 times:
According to a story in today's La Nación, IB has named "Costa Rica" the second (EC–LUK) of its five A333s entering service this year.. earlier this month her predecessor (EC–LUB) was named "Tikal" after the magnificent archaeological site in northern Guatemala.
Quoting SJOtoLIR (Thread starter): Perhaps few people on this board remember Air Florida touching our regional airports
Late 80's wasn't really an attractive time for a U.S. airlines to open routes to PTY (and MGA). Pretty sure that was why Air Florida never made to PTY.
yellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 5276 posts, RR: 2 Reply 3, posted (3 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 9614 times:
Quoting viaggiare (Reply 1): I sure do.. also Eastern and the original PanAm.
I do too....flew them a few times....including one time BZE-MIA-LGW
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
SJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 4128 posts, RR: 5 Reply 4, posted (3 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 9453 times:
Recovered from the 51th edition: the possible service of LH in Panama makes sense in the mid-term considering the vast network offered by CM and Star Alliance at Tocumen International Airport.
CM currently code-shares with IB [OneWorld] and KL [SkyTeam], in order to feed their inter-contentinental flights. Things may dramatically change in the forthcoming year trying to open a new niche for the German airline.
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Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 2): Late 80's wasn't really an attractive time for a U.S. airlines to open routes to PTY (and MGA).
According to some sources on the web, Air Florida operated in Central America from 1981 till 1984.
I don't think any US airline flew to Nicaragua in such filter period.
AeroNica didn't fly to Miami as LaNica did it prior to 1979.
I did a quick research at amadeus.net and DL LAX-SJO 7x weekly is due to start on July 01st.
Thus, DL has moved forward their intended plans in such route. The first flight was previously dated on December 19th.
yellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 5276 posts, RR: 2 Reply 7, posted (3 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 9181 times:
Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 6): I did a quick research at amadeus.net and DL LAX-SJO 7x weekly is due to start on July 01st.
Thus, DL has moved forward their intended plans in such route. The first flight was previously dated on December 19th.
DL is going to be aggressive this time round.....with better sales teams in place, we are going to see a big push in C America from DL. They want to try to nail down some market before WN enters.
We already see them moving up LAX SJO start date, adding more service to GUA.
within the next 18 months I predict we will see DL from LAX to PTY/BZE/SAL/SAP and additional frequencies on most of the major routes from ATL...even RTB might see some new ATL frequencies. The only wild card is TGU...it has struggled badly, but they might stick it out there in order to keep a full complement of flights to the region.
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
2travel2know2 From Panama, joined Apr 2010, 2076 posts, RR: 1 Reply 8, posted (3 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 9116 times:
Quoting yellowtail (Reply 7): within the next 18 months I predict we will see DL from LAX to PTY/BZE/SAL/SAP and additional frequencies on most of the major routes from ATL.
DL LAX-PTY when CM is flying PTY-LAX thrice daily?
Extra ATL-PTY frequencies may be possible and profitable, but DL LAX-PTY is a disaster about to happen.
If DL wants to be creative, DL should try SLC-PTY instead of LAX-PTY. SLC being a DL hub may consolidate enough passengers from the western U.S. to support a 3-4 per week service to PTY.
If SLC too far west, MSP may be interesting as an alternate for DL Western U.S.-Panama.
yellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 5276 posts, RR: 2 Reply 9, posted (3 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 9105 times:
Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 8): DL LAX-PTY when CM is flying PTY-LAX thrice daily?
So? That means the market may now be big enough to support a non Star carrier.
Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 8): SLC being a DL hub may consolidate enough passengers from the western U.S. to support a 3-4 per week service to PTY.
LAX is almost a hub now, have you seen all the additions recently. And LAX has much more O&D to PTY than SLC. If LAX can't work, there is no way in hell SLC will work.
Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 8): MSP may be interesting as an alternate for DL Western U.S.-Panama.
Not going to happen. It is too far north and PTY is much less leisure than say SJO.
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
2travel2know2 From Panama, joined Apr 2010, 2076 posts, RR: 1 Reply 10, posted (3 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 9090 times:
Quoting yellowtail (Reply 9): So? That means the market may now be big enough to support a non Star carrier.
Good luck to DL in the LAX-PTY route.
There are no LAX-PTY arrivals early morning and no PTY-LAX red-eyes departures.. So the same DL aircraft flying ATL-PTY could take-off to LAX a couple of hours later; depart early evening LAX-PTY and continue to ATL early next morning.
yellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 5276 posts, RR: 2 Reply 11, posted (3 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 9063 times:
Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 10): There are no LAX-PTY arrivals early morning and no PTY-LAX red-eyes departures.. So the same DL aircraft flying ATL-PTY could take-off to LAX a couple of hours later; depart early evening LAX-PTY and continue to ATL early next morning.
Ahhh ..now you are beginning to think like an airline person. Its about asset allocation and utilisation.
Instead of the aircraft RONing at PTY....it gets a fresh crew and turns to LAX...essentially passing another DL aircraft (LAX-PTY) in the air. That south bound aircraft is on the ground in PTY in time for the morning ATL flight.
As long as they can break even on the route itself it is an overall win for the company.
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
SJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 4128 posts, RR: 5 Reply 12, posted (3 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 8937 times:
Quoting yellowtail (Reply 7): DL is going to be aggressive this time round.....with better sales teams in place, we are going to see a big push in C America from DL.
I'm still a little bit skeptical concerning to a huge expansion of Delta Air Lines in Central America.
The Atlanta - Central America sector has suffered few changes during the last five years, in terms of weekly frequencies as well as new equipment. On the other hand, their competitors have been more aggressive in our region: UA [IAH - Central America] and AA [MIA - Central America].
I don't want to talk again about the catastrophic [JFK - Latin America] experiment in 2008, where DL JFK-BOG is the sole survivor. Needless to say that all their Central American routes were rapidly retired.
We'll follow carefully the progress on DL LAX-SJO 7x weekly from July 01st. Everything seems to be all right now !
2travel2know2 From Panama, joined Apr 2010, 2076 posts, RR: 1 Reply 14, posted (3 months 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 8736 times:
Quoting viaggiare (Reply 13): Speaking of asset optimization, Air Panamá (7P) has found a niche doing vip charters on the side.. here is HP–1764PST upon arrival last week in CCS.
Last year I saw it on CUR.
7P also flew the Panamanian national football team to Dominica for a match there.
Don't really know what those 7P people have on their minds.. The airline could be more creative with its use of its fleet, 7P still have some room to grow.
yellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 5276 posts, RR: 2 Reply 15, posted (3 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 8700 times:
Quoting viaggiare (Reply 13): Speaking of asset optimization, Air Panamá (7P) has found a niche doing vip charters on the side.. here is HP–1764PST upon arrival last week in CCS.
Don't they have sort of relationship with CM now too?
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
2travel2know2 From Panama, joined Apr 2010, 2076 posts, RR: 1 Reply 16, posted (3 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 8686 times:
Quoting yellowtail (Reply 15): Don't they have sort of relationship with CM now too?
Yes flying domestic passengers between PTY and BOC.
Not sure if 7P would operate flights on behalf of CM when CM hasn't gotten equipment available due to maintenance or other reasons.
yellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 5276 posts, RR: 2 Reply 17, posted (3 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 8628 times:
Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 12): We'll follow carefully the progress on DL LAX-SJO 7x weekly from July 01st. Everything seems to be all right now !
Lots of us will and we might have more than just LAX SJO to follow. I would be really surprised if DL did not put in SAL-LAX for a Dec start.
Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 12): The Atlanta - Central America sector has suffered few changes during the last five years, in terms of weekly frequencies as well as new equipment.
Well they have moved around aircraft in the region 75s, 73s, 319s Md88s. All the CR9 seem to be gone permanently. GUA has seen frequency upgrades as recently as the last OAG update. BZE keeps growing and growing for them. RTB seems to be growing slowly as well. LIR is supposedly the stellar performer in the region for them. So it is not stagnant. The only weak place seems to be TGU, but then again UA is hardly minting it there as well.
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
SJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 4128 posts, RR: 5 Reply 18, posted (3 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 8590 times:
Quoting yellowtail (Reply 17): I would be really surprised if DL did not put in SAL-LAX for a Dec start.
Agreed, the market is indeed there. The SAL-LAX sector is operated by TA up to 21x weekly sometimes; it is 18x weekly for the time being. AA LAX-SAL and the former CO also flew that segment before.
I'm not worried about the predominance of TA in such route. Let's take a look about the commented situation on TA GUA-MEX which is no longer in service.
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Quoting yellowtail (Reply 17): Well they have moved around aircraft in the region 75s, 73s, 319s Md88s. All the CR9 seem to be gone permanently. GUA has seen frequency upgrades as recently as the last OAG update. BZE keeps growing and growing for them. RTB seems to be growing slowly as well. LIR is supposedly the stellar performer in the region for them. So it is not stagnant. The only weak place seems to be TGU, but then again UA is hardly minting it there as well.
If we make an analysis about the progress of DL in Central America in the past ten years, it cannot be fairly compared with UA:
United Airlines in Central America. 2013
UA EWR-BZE: 2x weekly
UA IAH-BZE: 16x weekly
UA EWR-GUA: 1x weekly
UA IAH-GUA: 19x weekly
UA IAH-RTB: 8x weekly
UA EWR-SAP: 1x weekly
UA IAH-SAP: 9x weekly
UA IAH-TGU: 7x weekly
UA EWR-SAL: 1x weekly
UA IAH-SAL: 22x weekly
UA IAH-MGA: 14x weekly
UA ORD-LIR: 3x weekly
UA EWR-LIR: 7x weekly
UA IAH-LIR: 17x weekly
UA EWR-SJO: 14x weekly
UA IAH-SJO: 28x weekly
UA EWR-PTY: 9x weekly
UA IAH-PTY: 14x weekly
viaggiare From Costa Rica, joined Jan 2007, 2053 posts, RR: 9 Reply 19, posted (3 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 8571 times:
Quoting yellowtail (Reply 17): LIR is supposedly the stellar performer in the region for them
I'm happy for Delta.. Liberia remained largely stagnant for over a quarter century until it took off with their arrival in 2002.. gotta thank Alan Kelso (Four Seasons) and Hoover Gordon–Patillo (Hacienda Pinilla) for persuading Leo Mullin (former DL CEO) with the help of US$3M in revenue guarantees.. although CO and AA soon followed, it was DL along with the Four Seasons (which gave Guanacaste the credibility to attract other luxury developers) that drove the construction boom which soon followed.
SJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 4128 posts, RR: 5 Reply 20, posted (3 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 8565 times:
Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 18): United Airlines in Central America. 2013
UA EWR-BZE: 2x weekly
UA IAH-BZE: 16x weekly
UA EWR-GUA: 1x weekly
UA IAH-GUA: 19x weekly
UA IAH-RTB: 8x weekly
UA EWR-SAP: 1x weekly
UA IAH-SAP: 9x weekly
UA IAH-TGU: 7x weekly
UA EWR-SAL: 1x weekly
UA IAH-SAL: 22x weekly
UA IAH-MGA: 14x weekly
UA ORD-LIR: 3x weekly
UA EWR-LIR: 7x weekly
UA IAH-LIR: 17x weekly
UA EWR-SJO: 14x weekly
UA IAH-SJO: 28x weekly
UA EWR-PTY: 9x weekly
UA IAH-PTY: 14x weekly
I missed UA IAD-SAL 7x weekly which is available since December 2012.
Four stations out of the USA towards Central America completing 199 weekly frequencies !
2travel2know2 From Panama, joined Apr 2010, 2076 posts, RR: 1 Reply 23, posted (3 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 8483 times:
Quoting yellowtail (Reply 22): IMHO they are trying to tell AS and DL to not even consider this market.
IMHO, LAX-GUA/SAL traffic could well support another airline.
If DL already has a presence @ GUA and SAL and it's adding more operations @ LAX, that's the most likely candidate for those routes from U.S: side.
If AS or NK wants into the California - GUA/SAL market.. maybe it's time for them to study ONT (or SNA) -GUA/SAL and OAK (or SJC )-SAL before WN makes a move into those markets.
SAL may even be able to support some frequency of SAN-SAL, SMF-SAL and LAS-SAL.
TA served the SAL-OAK sector in 2007 and it didn't last too much.
If I remember correctly, the service called SAL-SFO was suspended in favor to SAL-OAK.
viaggiare From Costa Rica, joined Jan 2007, 2053 posts, RR: 9 Reply 26, posted (3 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 8430 times:
Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 25): TA served the SAL-OAK sector in 2007 and it didn't last too much
The route was 3x weekly (sooo TACA) from the start until it was quietly dropped.. coincidentally there was a Salvadoran national sitting on the Oakland Board of Port Commissioners at the time.
sfjeff From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 42 posts, RR: 0 Reply 28, posted (3 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 8257 times:
Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 25): If I remember correctly, the service called SAL-SFO was suspended in favor to SAL-OAK.
This is not correct. TACA never suspended SFO in favor of OAK. IRC, there was a reduction at SFO from 10 or so flights a week to 7 during the period the OAK service operated.
SJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 4128 posts, RR: 5 Reply 29, posted (3 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 8215 times:
Quoting troest (Reply 27): What German airline do you mean? Lufthansa, Condor ?
We were speaking in the last Cent Am thread about the possibility of any LH FRA-PTY.
Having IB from OneWorld and KL from SkyTeam, the possibility of any Star Alliance carrier from Europe makes sense at PTY, being that airport widely dominated by CM.
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Quoting sfjeff (Reply 28): TACA never suspended SFO in favor of OAK
Thanks for the clarification. I didn't remember that.
yellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 5276 posts, RR: 2 Reply 30, posted (3 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 8131 times:
Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 29): Thanks for the clarification. I didn't remember that.
TA has served SFO for many many years. I once flew it on their 733 where we stopped in MZT for fuel both ways. I Was always surprised that they managed to keep the fact they that a fuels stop was required so quiet.
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
SJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 4128 posts, RR: 5 Reply 31, posted (3 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 8076 times:
Quoting yellowtail (Reply 30): TA has served SFO for many many years. I once flew it on their 733 where we stopped in MZT for fuel both ways.
If I recall correctly, TA SAL-SFO was served even during the 80s when the former TA had the 762 equipment. Hence, some stations such as IAD, LAX, SFO and JFK were flown as non-stop services with 762. I don't remember how were them routed; perhaps TA SAL-IAD-JFK or so.
Disclaimer: this information was based on my older thoughts without reliable source to prove them.
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Quoting yellowtail (Reply 30): I Was always surprised that they managed to keep the fact they that a fuels stop was required so quiet.
These routes originated in Central America were flown in the past with 733:
RG PTY-MAO with 733: 1365nm
UC SJO-ARI with 733: 1882nm.
San Francisco lies 2294nm from San Salvador following purely a straight line.
When the "73G Next generation" equipment came into force, CM started some routes that weren't served in the past: PTY-GRU, PTY-SCL, PTY-EZE and so on.
yellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 5276 posts, RR: 2 Reply 35, posted (3 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 7939 times:
Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 31): If I recall correctly, TA SAL-SFO was served even during the 80s when the former TA had the 762 equipment. Hence, some stations such as IAD, LAX, SFO and JFK were flown as non-stop services with 762. I don't remember how were them routed; perhaps TA SAL-IAD-JFK or so.
I took the SFO flight many times.....an never ever had a 762. Was always a 733 packed to the gills with a tech stop in MZT. I once asked a senior official in TA "why MZT". He told me "because it was easier to spend the pesos they made in MEX in mexico than try to convert it to US $ to repatriate" ...remember those were the days that the peso value was swinging wildly.
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
yellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 5276 posts, RR: 2 Reply 41, posted (3 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 7683 times:
Quoting juanchito (Reply 40): If i remember correctly the first ATR72-600 will be going to Central America so it basically going to Guatemala or Honduras.
So the most probable routes would be GUA-FRS or SAP-RTB?
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
viaggiare From Costa Rica, joined Jan 2007, 2053 posts, RR: 9 Reply 43, posted (2 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 7544 times:
CM has inaugurated its newest Copa Club (membership airport lounge program jointly operated with UA) in SJO.. six thousand square feet.. seating for over 160 passengers.. located in the main concourse next to the airport’s food court.. Costa Rica becomes the fourth country with a vip lounge for the Panamanian airline’s passengers (the other three being Panamá, Guatemala, and the Dominican Republic).
Costa Rican government officials and local business executives attended the opening ceremony, along with airline boss Pedro Heilbron..
“Las operaciones de Copa Airlines se han incrementado consistentemente en Costa Rica, convirtiéndonos en la aerolínea preferida para sus conexiones con Latinoamérica (...) Esta sala VIP consolida nuestra presencia en Costa Rica y nos permite contribuir, si cabe aún más, con el desarrollo económico y turístico del país”. — (Copa Airlines operations have increased consistently in Costa Rica, and we are now the preferred airline for connections throughout Latin America (...) This VIP lounge enhances Copa’s presence in Costa Rica and contributes to the country’s economic and tourism development).
The new Copa Club is designated exclusively for passengers with club membership, those traveling in Clase Ejecutiva or first class on a Star Alliance member airline, or hold Star Alliance Gold status.
2travel2know2 From Panama, joined Apr 2010, 2076 posts, RR: 1 Reply 46, posted (2 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 7459 times:
AV got rid of its TA surname from Revista Summa in Spanish.
During Avianca Taca Holding S.A. (Inc,) stock holders meeting in Panama (of all places) the board of the holding of the airline group decided to drop the Taca to Avianca-Taca and thus have all of its 150 aircraft on fleet to have Avianca livery and bear its name.
The news piece from Revista Summa also mentions Mr Efranovich efforts to get TP in his airline group.
I still can't believe that having so many other places to meet, AV-TA choose PTY for their stock holders assembly. Perhaps - like many other companies - AV has noticed how convenient is PTY Hub of the Américas.
viaggiare From Costa Rica, joined Jan 2007, 2053 posts, RR: 9 Reply 47, posted (2 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 7418 times:
Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 46): I still can't believe that having so many other places to meet, AV-TA choose PTY for their stock holders assembly. Perhaps - like many other companies - AV has noticed how convenient is PTY Hub of the Américas.
LOL but isn't the holding domiciled in Panama (neutral ground) since its inception?
RCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4290 posts, RR: 13 Reply 48, posted (2 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 7421 times:
Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 46): I still can't believe that having so many other places to meet, AV-TA choose PTY for their stock holders assembly. Perhaps - like many other companies - AV has noticed how convenient is PTY Hub of the Américas.
No, it's because the holding company has it's domicile in Panama due to tax reasons. Legally, at least in Colombia, you can't celebrate the board meetings or the stockholder assembly in a place different than the company's domicile. That's why Avianca's board of directors always met in Barranquilla before the merger with TA.
Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 46): During Avianca Taca Holding S.A. (Inc,) stock holders meeting in Panama (of all places) the board of the holding of the airline group decided to drop the Taca to Avianca-Taca and thus have all of its 150 aircraft on fleet to have Avianca livery and bear its name.
2travel2know2 From Panama, joined Apr 2010, 2076 posts, RR: 1 Reply 49, posted (2 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 7398 times:
Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 48): That's why Avianca's board of directors always met in Barranquilla before the merger with TA.
That'd have been a source of lots of Costeño pride that after so many years of AV incorporation and being BOG its major base/hub the meetings were still held in BAQ.
yellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 5276 posts, RR: 2 Reply 50, posted (2 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 7338 times:
Does anyone hav any clue when we will see the next round of CMs route announcement...a couple were due in March....but March is about to end and with Santa Semana upon us I doubt we will see anything this week.
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
2travel2know2 From Panama, joined Apr 2010, 2076 posts, RR: 1 Reply 51, posted (2 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 7268 times:
Quoting yellowtail (Reply 50): Does anyone hav any clue when we will see the next round of CMs route announcement
i've no clue when CM would make the new destination announcements, but since I could guess CM wants to cash on the FIFA world cup Brazil 2014, SSA could be among those new destinations. CWB could be another possibility but it does have runway issues for a CWB-PTY non-stop.
Lets hope CM does return to DAV now that the airport has a new terminal.
Could be. Especially is the Panamanian government offers money incentives, such as it does to other European airlines.
BA is receiving new long haul airplanes this year (A380s and 787s), so there will be some capacity for growth. I guess that if it happens it would be an LGW flight with a 777.
Let's wait and see...
2travel2know2 From Panama, joined Apr 2010, 2076 posts, RR: 1 Reply 54, posted (2 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 7187 times:
Quoting summa767 (Reply 53): BA is receiving new long haul airplanes this year (A380s and 787s), so there will be some capacity for growth. I guess that if it happens it would be an LGW flight with a 777.
A BA LGW-PTY is what The Panama Tourist Authority have been trying to get from BA for quite some time.
They knew the chances of getting something out of LGW were far greater than of a LHR flight.
I'd not doubt for a moment that the future BA LGW-PTY flight will bear a CM code-share as CM does on IB MAD-PTY.
copa330200 From Panama, joined Jan 2011, 148 posts, RR: 0 Reply 55, posted (2 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 7171 times:
Quoting summa767 (Reply 53): Could be. Especially is the Panamanian government offers money incentives, such as it does to other European airlines.
100% agree
I´ll love to see BA and other airlines ( LH) coming to PTY in the near future !!! that will be awason !!! but BA within this year since I bit stretch though doable !! let's hope for the best !
SJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 4128 posts, RR: 5 Reply 56, posted (2 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 7154 times:
Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 51): CWB could be another possibility but it does have runway issues for a CWB-PTY non-stop.
Perhaps any triangular route is a valid choice for Copa Airlines in the future.
For illustrative purposes, AA MIA-CWB-POA-MIA will begin on December 19th.
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Quoting copa330200 (Reply 52): according to Panama Prensa British Airways will land in PTY by the end of 2013
I expect IB MAD-PTY 5x weekly becoming daily prior to any BA LON-PTY.
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Quoting summa767 (Reply 53): Especially is the Panamanian government offers money incentives, such as it does to other European airlines.
We're still waiting for LH in Panama which is valid for the objectives followed by Star Alliance.
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Quoting summa767 (Reply 53): BA is receiving new long haul airplanes this year (A380s and 787s), so there will be some capacity for growth.
As far as I know, the new north pier at PTY is capable to handle the 380. I'm not implying that this is the suitable plane for any BA LON-PTY in the future.
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Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 54): I'd not doubt for a moment that the future BA LGW-PTY flight will bear a CM code-share as CM does on IB MAD-PTY.
CM sustains code-share agreements with IB MAD-PTY and KL AMS-PTY.
In other words, if LH would land at PTY some day, it won't be easy the establishment of a new code-share cooperation with other European airline.
viaggiare From Costa Rica, joined Jan 2007, 2053 posts, RR: 9 Reply 57, posted (2 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 7139 times:
Saw KX bird VP-CKY sitting on the apron at SJO yesterday 3/23 at 1630Z by the main pax terminal nowhere near the COOPESA hangar. Wonder what she was up to.
2travel2know2 From Panama, joined Apr 2010, 2076 posts, RR: 1 Reply 58, posted (2 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 7139 times:
Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 56): Perhaps any triangular route is a valid choice for Copa Airlines in the future.
For illustrative purposes, AA MIA-CWB-POA-MIA will begin on December 19th.
For CM both POA and CWB are markets which could sustain non-stop on their own.
A CM PTY-CWB-POA-PTY route would only make less attractive CM in both CWB and POA. AA could well fly that MIA-CWB-POA-MIA because it's a MIA service and for MIA alone Brazilians would endure such a route.
If CM is to launch a triangular in Brazil it'd most likely be adding FOR stop to the west-bound REC-PTY. only if REC loads continue to not meet CM expectations.
And in the mean-while, those former Malev B737-600 (able to take-off from CWB runway non-stop to PTY) haven found a home yet.
Quote: I expect IB MAD-PTY 5x weekly becoming daily prior to any BA LON-PTY.
PTY (I'd rather say CM) went to great lengths to keep IB MAD-PTY flying when IB suspended a huge number of flights due to strike.
CM wants LON feed to its PTY hub and right-now both CM and BA realise that IB MAD-PTY can't provide that.
SJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 4128 posts, RR: 5 Reply 59, posted (2 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 7142 times:
Speaking about Copa Airlines, the 738 is the exclusive aircraft in their high density routes.
No more 73Gs on the following segments lately: CM PTY-GRU, CM PTY-GIG, CM PTY-MEX, CM PTY-EZE, CM PTY-SCL, CM PTY-CUN, CM PTY-LAX, CM PTY-JFK, CM PTY-MIA, CM PTY-COR, CM PTY-CCS, CM PTY-CNF and CM PTY-BSB, among others.
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Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 58): A CM PTY-CWB-POA-PTY route would only make less attractive CM in both CWB and POA. AA could well fly that MIA-CWB-POA-MIA because it's a MIA service and for MIA alone Brazilians would endure such a route.
It's rather a technical issue for any plane fully packed on the way back either to Miami or Panama City out of the short runway at CWB.
CM doesn't tend to operate tag-on segments, besides their inner Central American routes and the airline had asked for SSA instead as a possible candidate for their expansión plans.
In my view, Curitiba is a viable station for CM and TA/AV in the future. However, I have my technical doubts about any 73G completely loaded operating the north-bound sector into CWB-PTY as non-stop.
yellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 5276 posts, RR: 2 Reply 60, posted (2 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 6874 times:
Tropic Air commenced service to Cancun on Monday from BZE. This flight markes the resumption of air links between the two countries.
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
2travel2know2 From Panama, joined Apr 2010, 2076 posts, RR: 1 Reply 62, posted (2 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 6787 times:
Quoting copa330200 (Reply 61): based on the article,
1- PTY is expecting to land 2 new airline by the end of the current year.
2- CM is looking for options to start Montreal
Add to those the bilateral agreements with Israel, Egypt, Turkey, Jordan and Qatar. Not sure what'd they be good for right-now but they'd have some value in the near future.
But the bad news, as it was expected: Argentina still refuses to talk about increased frequencies to that country, thus CM adding MDZ, ROS, SLA to its destinations network are to be put on hold indefinitely.
Could CM be able to add a couple of frequencies if its aircraft used for Argentina-PTY flights was an Argentine registered?
Interesting note is that Panamanian Aviation authorities keep saying we've open skies with Perú, yet CM had to open IQT in order to get an extra daily frequency to LIM.
When Perú says open skies it means "free to fly but not to LIM"? Still waiting for PTY.-AQP here.
If Panama has open skies with U.S.A., Guatemala, Nicaragua and Peru, would it mean that CM is in theory allowed to fly between MGA/GUA and points in the U.S.A.? How about between Peru and U.S.A.?
Lets see how the new AV performs in MGA/GUA-U.S.A. non-stop routes to check if Nicaragua and Guatemala knock on CM door asking for MGA/GUA-U.S.A. flights.
SJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 4128 posts, RR: 5 Reply 63, posted (2 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 6680 times:
As of April 15th, Avianca is implementing its AV code in selected flights operated by TA/LR nowadays. The current operations will keep the schedule, frequencies and equipment. The first stage is considering the following flights:
LR 693 SJO-PTY-MDE
LR 692 MDE-PTY-SJO
TA 146 LIM-MDE
TA 157 MDE-LIM
TA 369 SAL-MDE
TA 370 MDE-SAL
TA 422 SAL-MCO
TA 423 MCO-SAL
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Quoting copa330200 (Reply 61): CM is looking for options to start Montreal
I don't visualize any CM PTY-YUL prior to CM PTY-YYZ 4x weekly becoming on a daily basis.
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Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 62): CM is in theory allowed to fly between MGA/GUA and points in the U.S.A.?
I remind the possibility of GUA as a possible hub for Copa Airlines, in order to exploit better the new terminal.
This topic was discussed five years ago. Nothing happened.
2travel2know2 From Panama, joined Apr 2010, 2076 posts, RR: 1 Reply 64, posted (2 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 6540 times:
Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 63): I don't visualize any CM PTY-YUL prior to CM PTY-YYZ 4x weekly becoming on a daily basis.
It's all up to what else the Canadians are willing to allow CM.
For CM, Canada-Latin America demand is so critical that the airline just can't be crying-out for not been able to fly daily to YYZ; if what Canada gives it is access to YUL, CM will take it and start PTY-YUL.
Quote: Both Lan Peru and Avianca wouldn't allow any chance on CM [Peru-USA] as non-stop flights.
So much for "real" open-skies.
January 16% traffic increase @ PTY compared to January 2012 From www.prensa.com in Spanish
PTY got a 16% passenger increase figure for this past January when compared to last years.
Transit passengers went up 23% compared to same period last year.
It's believed PTY will handle 7.5million passengers this year.
According to La Prensa, when the new South Terminal will be completed, PTY may have capacity to handle 15million passengers per year.
That new terminal and airport expansion have a tremendous price tag of USD680million.
SJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 4128 posts, RR: 5 Reply 65, posted (2 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 6480 times:
From the above press release in Spanish:
"Una vez esté habilitada la nueva terminal sur, el aeropuerto tendrá la capacidad para manejar 15 millones de pasajeros. La primera etapa de la nueva ampliación deberá estar operativa a mediados de 2014."
PTY is already handling some flights from the remote platform which is located in the area where the south pier will be built.
Based on the current diagram of the airport, the "remote area B" is capable to hold six positions and numbered from 34 till 39.
avi8 From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 505 posts, RR: 0 Reply 66, posted (2 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 6472 times:
I wonder when we will here about expansion at GUA. The airport had a 6% increase in passengers for 2012. GUA handled almost the same as SAL if not more without a hub.
Anyways, that is great news for PTY! Both Panama and CM have done an excellent job at building PTY, no doubt they will one day be as big as a US airport!
2travel2know2 From Panama, joined Apr 2010, 2076 posts, RR: 1 Reply 67, posted (2 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 6446 times:
Quoting avi8 (Reply 66): Anyways, that is great news for PTY! Both Panama and CM have done an excellent job at building PTY, no doubt they will one day be as big as a US airport!
Right now I don't know about that, I've not seen where the future 3rd and 4th runways would go and the area around the "newest" runway is going to be building-up fast.
SJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 4128 posts, RR: 5 Reply 68, posted (2 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 6426 times:
I foresee PTY as one of the most successful Latin American airports by 2025.
In terms of the Central American landscape, it has by far surpassed the level of service of their regional competitors: GUA, SAL and SJO. The point is clearly released just counting their amount of jet-bridges, destinations and frequencies.
The challenge for the Panamanian authorities consists also to attract new inter-continental airlines, in order to exploit better the international agreements related to civil aviation.
yellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 5276 posts, RR: 2 Reply 69, posted (2 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 6263 times:
I am hearing rumblings once again that both AV and CM are being solicited heavily by the Skyteam partners to leave Star. Lots of promises about new long haul service to PTY being used as sweetners.
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
2travel2know2 From Panama, joined Apr 2010, 2076 posts, RR: 1 Reply 70, posted (2 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 6168 times:
Quoting yellowtail (Reply 69): Lots of promises about new long haul service to PTY being used as sweetners.
Star Alliance Far East airlines haven't been that much receptive to CM (and Panama in general) wish for a PTY-Asia direct flight.
So Sky trying to woo CM back to Sky with KE ICN-PTY (stop en-route somewhere not requiring U.S./Canada visas) may be the sweetener?
But then, wouldn't be a quite erratic behaviour from CM's part to have been an Sky associate member, left Sky, joined Star and then go back to Sky?
We know CM marriage was with Sky-team CO not with Star-Alliance UA and I could bet the new UA relation with CM isn't quite the same as former CO was, specially now when both CM and the new AV are in Star.
Guess if CM leaves Star-Alliance for Sky-team, CM would start PTY-IAH and PTY-SFO.
SJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 4128 posts, RR: 5 Reply 71, posted (2 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 6016 times:
Quoting yellowtail (Reply 69): both AV and CM are being solicited heavily by the Skyteam partners to leave Star
It won't be easy for SkyTeam grouping as AV-TA are promoting its commercial relation with Star Alliance as follows:
"Avianca and Taca are proud of being a member of the world’s leading alliance of airlines, the Star Alliance. It has the highest number of member airlines, daily flights, destinations and countries where they fly."
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Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 70): wouldn't be a quite erratic behaviour from CM's part to have been an Sky associate member, left Sky, joined Star and then go back to Sky?
Agreed.
CM has always acted as a follower of the former CO.
Once the merger UA-CO took place and regarding its new status into Star Alliance as well, CM rapidly suspended its membership as "SkyTeam associated airline."
Authorities of the Panamanian airline preferred to remain as a "non-aligned" airline whilst they pursued an active membership within Star Alliance.
By the way, both CM and [AV-TA] entered into Star Alliance on June 21st 2012.
yellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 5276 posts, RR: 2 Reply 75, posted (2 months 4 hours ago) and read 5631 times:
Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 74): Pretty sure lots of seats on those AV SAL-MCO are sold as Orlando holiday programmes from BOG or LIM and beyond.
Maybe, but from those markets would be better on CM. there is sizeable SJO/GUA/SAL family traffic to MCO during the school holiday period.....but flying it with a E-jet is just a token effort and probably reflects the intense competition for those travellers from CM, B6, AA and even DL.
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
RCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4290 posts, RR: 13 Reply 76, posted (2 months 1 hour ago) and read 5629 times:
Quoting yellowtail (Reply 75): Maybe, but from those markets would be better on CM
Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 74): Pretty sure lots of seats on those AV SAL-MCO are sold as Orlando holiday programmes from BOG or LIM
BOG has daily flights to MCO on both AV and B6...the only reason people would take a connecting flight through SAL or PTY would be a much lower fare than available on the non-stops, and I don't think AV or CM can compete with B6 on that.
viaggiare From Costa Rica, joined Jan 2007, 2053 posts, RR: 9 Reply 77, posted (1 month 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 5427 times:
Quoting yellowtail (Reply 75): there is sizeable SJO/GUA/SAL family traffic to MCO during the school holiday period.....but flying it with a E-jet is just a token effort and probably reflects the intense competition
At what point does pulling the plug altogether on certain routes —especially those where their weaknesses become more apparent— make more sense than offering such limited service?
yellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 5276 posts, RR: 2 Reply 78, posted (1 month 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 5375 times:
Quoting viaggiare (Reply 77): At what point does pulling the plug altogether on certain routes —especially those where their weaknesses become more apparent— make more sense than offering such limited service?
You know we are taking about AV/TA right?
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
yellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 5276 posts, RR: 2 Reply 80, posted (1 month 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 5188 times:
Tropic Air will further increase its SAP-BZE to daily effective May 1. The added 2 days will see evening (RON) service vs the current late morning flights....and will allow for same day connections at BZE from the CUN flight. This will allow SAP pax to get to CUN 7 days a week and return 2 days a week without overnighting in BZE.
San Pedro Sula, Honduras (SAP)
Flt # Route Dep Service Days
2200 BZE > SAP 0800 Sun, Mon, Wed, Thur, Fri
2202 BZE > SAP 1630 Mon, Fri
2201 SAP > BZE 0930 Sun, Mon, Tue, Wed, Thur, Fri
2205 SAP > BZE 0700 Sat
So effective May 1st...PM will be serving FRS and SAP 7Xweekly and CUN 6Xweek from BZE.
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
AV SAL-MCO is barely served as 4x weekly with the 100-seater E90 whilst CM PTY-MCO is flown as 21x weekly and it's grabbing the biggest chunk of the Central and South American passengers heading to Orlando.
Avianca is also serving Orlando by means of AV BOG-MCO 7x weekly.
I didn't say TA/LR SAL-MCO 4x weekly because the flight unification process just began on April 22nd.
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Quoting yellowtail (Reply 80): Tropic Air will further increase its SAP-BZE to daily
I think you mentioned the BZE-SAP segment operated with Let L-410 by any Honduran airline before.
Are these flights still available?
yellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 5276 posts, RR: 2 Reply 83, posted (1 month 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 5103 times:
Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 82): I think you mentioned the BZE-SAP segment operated with Let L-410 by any Honduran airline before.
Are these flights still available?
No...long gone...along with the airline.
Quoting viaggiare (Reply 81): How much time are we talking about, including layover?
2hrs.55min from SAP to CUN Heck of a lot better than driving!
Quoting viaggiare (Reply 81):
First time BZE plays the role of international hub?
The next hub of the Americas! Actually pax from FRS to the USA have been using BZE to connect for the last 2-3 years instead of going via GUA.
The CUN flight on PM now connects internationally (same day) with its FRS and SAP
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
aer From Guatemala, joined Mar 2004, 1015 posts, RR: 4 Reply 84, posted (1 month 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 5072 times:
Quoting yellowtail (Reply 83): The next hub of the Americas! Actually pax from FRS to the USA have been using BZE to connect for the last 2-3 years instead of going via GUA.
Considering how high fares are on GUA-FRS (yes I'm looking at you TA) I'm not surprised.
nice and spacious airports in need of new airlines and flights... GUA or FRS anyone?... anyone at all?
avi8 From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 505 posts, RR: 0 Reply 86, posted (1 month 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 4908 times:
I would like to comment that this is a good year for SJO. DL is adding its daily to LAX and JetBlue is adding its daily flight to FLL. TA has been kind of silent for a while there. I hope other airports in Central America get the healthy growth SJO has been seeing lately. GUA ahas been silent for a while along with MGA, TGU, and SAP.
yellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 5276 posts, RR: 2 Reply 87, posted (1 month 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 4801 times:
Quoting avi8 (Reply 86): I would like to comment that this is a good year for SJO. DL is adding its daily to LAX and JetBlue is adding its daily flight to FLL. TA has been kind of silent for a while there. I hope other airports in Central America get the healthy growth SJO has been seeing lately. GUA ahas been silent for a while along with MGA, TGU, and SAP.
Big Announcements for BZE coming ...and I am not counting Tropic starting CUN and their announcement next week.
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
SJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 4128 posts, RR: 5 Reply 88, posted (1 month 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 4696 times:
Quoting avi8 (Reply 86): I would like to comment that this is a good year for SJO. DL is adding its daily to LAX and JetBlue is adding its daily flight to FLL.
Both UA IAD-SJO 1x weekly with 738 and UA ORD-SJO 1x weekly with 738 just began on April 13th.
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Quoting avi8 (Reply 86): TA has been kind of silent for a while there
Correct.
Almost one year has passed since TA opened the last route out of San Jose: TA/LR SJO-MTY 3x weekly.
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Quoting avi8 (Reply 86): GUA ahas been silent for a while
UA IAD-GUA 1x weekly with 738 started on April 13th.
mabadia71 From Costa Rica, joined Nov 2008, 75 posts, RR: 0 Reply 90, posted (1 month 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 4629 times:
Quoting carmenlu15 (Reply 89): Speaking of which, TA is getting rid of some of the ATR-42... wonder if they'll use some of the ATR-72 on order to fly GUA-FRS?
Right now the plan is for some of the ATR-72 to go to Central America, 7 IIRC, and the rest to BOG. I believe there is a big chance that AV will convert the options they have into orders, and in that case, most if not all of the "extra" ATRs will go to Central America.
yellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 5276 posts, RR: 2 Reply 91, posted (1 month 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 4634 times:
Well if CM starts BZE, we might see TA move to a ATR on SAL-BZE because CM will take all the traffic away heading from about SJO southward.
TA will be left with Northern C. America and the LAX consolidator traffic from BZE.
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
yellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 5276 posts, RR: 2 Reply 93, posted (1 month 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 4522 times:
Tropic Air Announces BZE-RTB
Press Release
San Pedro, Ambergris Caye, Belize, April 29, 2013
TROPIC AIR ANNOUNCES SERVICE TO ROATAN, HONDURAS
Tropic Air announced today that it will inaugurate non-stop service to Roatan, Honduras on November 20, 2013. With the launching of this service, Tropic will be the only airline to operate non-stop scheduled flights between Belize and the Bay Islands. Initially, Tropic will fly between Belize City's Phillip Goldson International Airport (BZE) and Roatan Honduras (RTB) 3 times weekly, and tickets are now available for sale.
This new service will not only serve to make travel to Roatan easier, but will allow for the expansion of trade and tourism between the two countries and serve to further grow the historical ties between Belize and the Bay Islands.
Roatan is Tropic's second destination in Honduras and its fourth international route. In March, Tropic added Cancun service to complement its existing San Pedro Sula, Honduras and Flores, Guatemala routes. This is in addition to its 11 domestic destinations within Belize.
"Our customers have been asking for it, and we are thrilled to announce it!" said John Greif III, President of Tropic Air. “We expect the market for this service to grow rapidly and we plan to add additional service as that happens. Not only will Belizeans finally be able to get to Roatan easily, but this opens up many new opportunities for the dive tourism market, and we have taken that into consideration with our schedule.”
Tropic's schedule between Belize City International and Roatan:
DEPARTS TIME ARRIVES TIME Days
Belize City Int'l (BZE) 4:15PM Roatan (RTB) 5:15PM Wed, Fri, Sun
Roatan (RTB) 7:00AM Belize City Int'l (BZE) 8:00AM Thur, Sat, Mon
ALL TIMES LOCAL
With the addition of Roatan, Tropic Air will serve 15 destinations in Belize, Guatemala, Honduras and Mexico.
The new service bookable via the web at www.tropicair.com, via e-mail at reservations@tropicair.com, by phone at (501) 226-2012, by contacting any of our
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
yellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 5276 posts, RR: 2 Reply 96, posted (1 month 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 4429 times:
Quoting viaggiare (Reply 95): This would've been unthinkable five years ago.. the cartel's collapse has brought with it an unexpected surprise.
And there is probably more to come....
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
SJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 4128 posts, RR: 5 Reply 97, posted (1 month 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 4411 times:
Quoting yellowtail (Reply 91): Well if CM starts BZE, we might see TA move to a ATR on SAL-BZE because CM will take all the traffic away heading from about SJO southward
Any CM PTY-BZE on a daily basis as non-stop sounds too much for this possible new route.
San Pedro Sula and Tegucigalpa were small markets for Copa Airlines from the beginning. At this time, they are experiencing the following services:
Tegucigalpa:
CM PTY-SJO-TGU 7x weekly
CM PTY-TGU 7x weekly
San Pedro Sula:
CM PTY-SJO-SAP 7x weekly
CM PTY-SAP 5x weekly
We have previously commented about how CM PTY-LIR 2x weekly and CM PTY-REC 4x weekly are not demonstrating progress lately. Thus, the airline must be cautious with the opening of new stations.
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Quoting yellowtail (Reply 93): With the addition of Roatan, Tropic Air will serve 15 destinations in Belize, Guatemala, Honduras and Mexico.
Tropic Air is now aiming for the international expansion !
AA767LOVER From Hong Kong, joined Aug 2007, 554 posts, RR: 0 Reply 98, posted (1 month 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 4405 times:
People wanting to fly from HK to Latin America are paying anywhere from $10000 HKD (base price) to $17000 HKD to Central and South America. It's crazy. My buddy spent almost $17000 HKD. I once spent $17000 from HKG-YYZ on AC!!! Bloody AC ripping off its own Canadians and bleeding us dry. We already pay taxes out of the crack of our asses. My friend got a better deal. It's cheaper for me to fly to Latin America from HK then to Canada! Crud!
J.I. Tsui, American Advantage Member, United Mileage Plus (Premier)
yellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 5276 posts, RR: 2 Reply 99, posted (1 month 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 4395 times:
Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 97): Any CM PTY-BZE on a daily basis as non-stop sounds too much for this possible new route.
Apples to Oranges. TGU and SAP do not have near the tourism market that BZE does. The PDEW is sizable between PTY and BZE alone. and the yields incredible. and you have many NGOs like Unicef willing to gaurantee J seats.. I haven't even gotten into cargo. Its not the business case holding CM back on this route....it is something else.
Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 97): We have previously commented about how CM PTY-LIR 2x weekly and CM PTY-REC 4x weekly are not demonstrating progress lately.
see above. LIR as a tourist destination is very hard to sell to CMs core tourism demographics. On a simplistic level, Why would a Brazilian want to go see the rainforest, when they have the biggest rainforest in the world in their back yard....for example. N. Americans want to go to LIR, S. American's want to go to the white sandy beach.
Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 97): Tropic Air is now aiming for the international expansion !
It already is international. 4 destinations and counting.
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
2travel2know2 From Panama, joined Apr 2010, 2076 posts, RR: 1 Reply 100, posted (1 month 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 4394 times:
Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 97): We have previously commented about how CM PTY-LIR 2x weekly and CM PTY-REC 4x weekly are not demonstrating progress lately. Thus, the airline must be cautious with the opening of new stations.
Rumour is: add IQT to those new CM under-performing destinations.
yellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 5276 posts, RR: 2 Reply 101, posted (1 month 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 4342 times:
Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 100): Rumour is: add IQT to those new CM under-performing destinations.
I have heard that REC, LIR and IQT are all underperforming...with LIR and REC running a close race for Stinker.
Here is tropic's latest updated route map (out today) from their website.
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
2travel2know2 From Panama, joined Apr 2010, 2076 posts, RR: 1 Reply 103, posted (1 month 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 4134 times:
Quoting yellowtail (Reply 101): I have heard that REC, LIR and IQT are all underperforming...with LIR and REC running a close race for Stinker.
IMHO, winner hands down: LIR.
I don't know of an Star Alliance airline flying LIR-MIA, so if CM wants to try something daring, how about twice weekly PTY-LIR-MIA and see what happens.
What CM REC needs is some kind of cooperation with G3 on REC-FOR/SSA like CM has w/G3 on GRU-GIG.
At least, it's what is still shown on CM magazine.
Since CM is already allowed to fly to SSA, not sure how the passengers (not to mention CM crews) would take a possible PTY-REC-SSA-PTY or PTY-SSA-REC-PTY.
SJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 4128 posts, RR: 5 Reply 104, posted (1 month 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 4029 times:
Quoting yellowtail (Reply 99): Apples to Oranges. TGU and SAP do not have near the tourism market that BZE does
The tourism market is centralized from the USA and it wouldn't magically come from South America and the Caribbean through PTY. Ask it to CM PTY-LIR 2x weekly.
In my view, the dimension of the whole market named CM PTY-TGU and CM PTY-SAP could be comparable to the fictitious CM PTY-BZE.
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Quoting yellowtail (Reply 99): Its not the business case holding CM back on this route....it is something else.
I don't get this statement.
Please, explain.
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Quoting yellowtail (Reply 99): for example. N. Americans want to go to LIR, S. American's want to go to the white sandy beach.
The average of the Deep South Americans travelers are not even thinking in both Liberia and Belize City.
They're rather considering Punta Cana, Havana, Santo Domingo, Aruba, Cancun, St. Maarten and so forth which are available through PTY.
.
Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 100): Rumour is: add IQT to those new CM under-performing destinations.
Give it some time. Based on the amount of weekly frequencies, CM PTY-REC, CM PTY-IQT and CM PTY-LIR are even low density routes. All these routes were inaugurated last year.
I can almost remember when CM PTY-PUJ started in 2007 as the shy 2x weekly service. Today, it's 21x weekly !
Perhaps Copa Airlines is not considering the massive opening of new destination in 2013 and it's not far away the day when the airline may double their daily flights heading to Port of Spain, Valencia, Maracaibo, Chicago, Las Vegas, Cordoba, Brasilia and Belo Horizonte, among others.
On the other hand, the US destinations seems to fit perfectly within its business model analyzing how CM PTY-ORD, CM PTY-LAS and even the upcoming CM PTY-BOS started flying solidly there on a daily basis. My hypothesis is that the wealthier new candidates on CM may be focused in the United States.
2travel2know2 From Panama, joined Apr 2010, 2076 posts, RR: 1 Reply 105, posted (1 month 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 3946 times:
Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 104): Perhaps Copa Airlines is not considering the massive opening of new destination in 2013 and it's not far away the day when the airline may double their daily flights heading to Port of Spain, Valencia, Maracaibo, Chicago, Las Vegas, Cordoba, Brasilia and Belo Horizonte, among others.
POS is almost twice daily right-now.
We won't see a frequency increase on PTY-MAR/VLN. Only chances for CM increasing frequencies to MAR/VLN would be if P5 is to fly from BOG, on the other side, CM could try to apply for twice/thrice weekly PTY-PMV/PZO and see how the Venezuelan authorities react.
Both ORD and LAS could go double-daily, LAS probably this same year may get extra flights some days.
Chances for increased frequencies to Argentina or starting ROS, MDZ or SLA, very remote. IMHO, only SLA may stand a greater chance of getting a PTY flight soon given its distance away from EZE and regional pressure for better international connectivity.
BSB, CNF, POA I'd guess could get and support an extra flight a couple of days per week in the meantime before going full double-daily.
yellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 5276 posts, RR: 2 Reply 106, posted (1 month 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 3933 times:
Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 104): The average of the Deep South Americans travelers are not even thinking in both Liberia and Belize City.
Doesn't need the average ...only about 100 a day need to buy a ticket.
SJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 4128 posts, RR: 5 Reply 107, posted (1 month 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3860 times:
Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 105): Chances for increased frequencies to Argentina or starting ROS, MDZ or SLA, very remote. IMHO, only SLA may stand a greater chance of getting a PTY flight soon given its distance away from EZE and regional pressure for better international connectivity.
The civil aviation authorities from Argentina have pursued the protectionism of its own market and I highly doubt about the opening of new stations.
Just remember what happened with TA LIM-MDZ 3x weekly in 2011. They never launched the first flight !
Venezuela is experiencing a similar behavior that could work against the commercial interests of the Panamanian airline.
I'm still skeptical about this behavior in the short-term.
CM for years served both San Pedro Sula and Tegucigalpa via San Jose and it wasn't easy for these Honduran stations.
This is the allocate schedule nowadays:
Tegucigalpa
CM PTY-SJO-TGU: 7x weekly
CM PTY-TGU: 7x weekly
San Pedro Sula
CM PTY-SJO-SAP: 7x weekly
CM PTY-SAP: 5x weekly
In my view, Belize City has the potential to become a new station for Copa Airlines in the future. Same with BGI, PVR, SJD or PMV. BZE is not alone on this purpose.
All the mentioned stations might have a similar dimension related to the demand of passengers through PTY.
avi8 From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 505 posts, RR: 0 Reply 108, posted (1 month 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 3838 times:
I wonder when CM will expand in other places that is not PTY. PTY can only grow so much and they can't and shouldn't put all of their eggs in one basket. I know the have Copa Colombia put right now I'm referring more to the Central American Copa. What are y'all's thoughts?
yellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 5276 posts, RR: 2 Reply 109, posted (1 month 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 3780 times:
Quoting avi8 (Reply 108): I wonder when CM will expand in other places that is not PTY. PTY can only grow so much and they can't and shouldn't put all of their eggs in one basket. I know the have Copa Colombia put right now I'm referring more to the Central American Copa. What are y'all's thoughts?
a) buy BW and open a second hub there at POS
b) open a second hub at GUA
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
2travel2know2 From Panama, joined Apr 2010, 2076 posts, RR: 1 Reply 111, posted (1 month 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 3742 times:
Quoting yellowtail (Reply 109): a) buy BW and open a second hub there at POS
There's fleet commonality between BW and CM but other than that just need to remember how Jamaica reacted to the Trini take-over of Air Jamaica to see what would happen on Trinidad (and on Jamaica for whatever BW has left overthere) if the Panamanians are to take-over BW. And that was Caribbean to "fellow Caribbean", CM getting into BW would be Latinamerican to Caribbean as Panama most of the time isn't perceived as "Caribbean" by many West Indians.
Quote: b) open a second hub at GUA
More than a hub, I'd guess a focus operation @ GUA and MGA, since both Guatemala and Nicaragua may allow CM non-stop 5th freedom to some of its major markets no question asked.
yellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 5276 posts, RR: 2 Reply 112, posted (1 month 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3722 times:
Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 111): There's fleet commonality between BW and CM but other than that just need to remember how Jamaica reacted to the Trini take-over of Air Jamaica to see what would happen on Trinidad (and on Jamaica for whatever BW has left overthere) if the Panamanians are to take-over BW. And that was Caribbean to "fellow Caribbean", CM getting into BW would be Latinamerican to Caribbean as Panama most of the time isn't perceived as "Caribbean" by many West Indians.
I perceive the Trini's to be a bit more pragmatic on investments subjects than the Jamaicans.
Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 111): since both Guatemala and Nicaragua may allow CM non-stop 5th freedom to some of its major markets no question asked.
BZE already offers 5th freedoms....hell CM should just open the hub there! BZE could be the next DXB. From dust to boom town in 20years. Guatemala would really want to invade them then!
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
SJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 4128 posts, RR: 5 Reply 113, posted (1 month 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 3679 times:
Quoting avi8 (Reply 108): Copa Colombia put right now I'm referring more to the Central American Copa. What are y'all's thoughts?
Copa Airlines has already built a focus city in San Jose:
Guatemala City: 1x CM + 1x Copa Colombia
San Pedro Sula: 1x
Tegucigalpa: 1x
Managua: 2x
Panama City: 6x CM + 1x Copa Colombia
Bogota: 1x Copa Colombia, via PTY
SJO doesn't have the official status of focus city on CM, but you can find at least one plane parked there at all times.
The airline recently inaugurated its newest Copa Club in Latin America, located in the Juan Santamaria International Airport.
The attached press releases states that the airline may move their maintenance services from SJO in the mid-term:
GUA has te potential: it was recently expanded, a nice environment, the VIP lounge and so on.
However, CM doesn't seem to follow the multi-hub concept like LAN or Avianca.
For example, the international operations supplied by Copa Airlines Colombia cannot be fairly compared with the flights offered by the mainline: [CM PTY-HAV 42x weekly against CM BOG-HAV 2x weekly] or [CM PTY-CUN 35x weekly against CM BOG-CUN 1x weekly].
aer From Guatemala, joined Mar 2004, 1015 posts, RR: 4 Reply 114, posted (1 month 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 3633 times:
I posted this question in another thread, but I also wanted to post it here.
I'm wondering is how are AV gonna manage the flags on the new livery; will all aircraft be painted with the Colombian flag, or will some keep the other flags?
nice and spacious airports in need of new airlines and flights... GUA or FRS anyone?... anyone at all?
SJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 4128 posts, RR: 5 Reply 115, posted (1 month 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3498 times:
Quoting aer (Reply 114): I'm wondering is how are AV gonna manage the flags on the new livery; will all aircraft be painted with the Colombian flag, or will some keep the other flags?
It's a good question.
The different national flags painted into the fuselage has been a practice followed by GRUPO TACA.
One more point: GRUPO TACA has promoted the "Centroamerica" logo in their engines. I've seen a stylized condor instead, speaking about the new color-scheme adopted by AV.
No more parrots -guaras- as well.
And the thing about the flags is that not all the countries give all the freedoms to foreign carriers, so that's where my question comes from; because of this I started wondering about it.
Nationality is sometimes a big thing when it comes to aircraft because of open sky agreements that have designated carriers (i.e. Canada and (fill in the blank) or internal workings of a country that are picky with foreign carriers that are not part of a nation group or so.
nice and spacious airports in need of new airlines and flights... GUA or FRS anyone?... anyone at all?
SJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 4128 posts, RR: 5 Reply 117, posted (1 month 1 week 1 day ago) and read 3438 times:
Quoting aer (Reply 116): the thing about the flags is that not all the countries give all the freedoms to foreign carriers
AV didn't purchase TA.
The merger AV-TA is being unified into the AV brand solely where the former Avianca is getting the 2/3 of the capital.
The traffic rights are considered part of the assets of one airline and they can be sold or transferred in the future.
Analyzing the case of the planes involved within GRUPO TACA, some of them belong to say LACSA and they clearly bear the Costa Rican flag for the meantime. I ignore further details about how will AV manage this situation later.
For example, the planes involved with LAN Argentina bear the LV-designator and they're featuring the Argentinean flag as well. I cannot find another difference analyzing the paint-scheme belonging to the Chilean division: LAN.
Same with Copa Airlines Colombia and Copa Airlines mainline.
.
One more sample about the unification process on AV-TA:
2travel2know2 From Panama, joined Apr 2010, 2076 posts, RR: 1 Reply 121, posted (1 month 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 3063 times:
Airlines interested in MPRH Rio Hato Airport from www.prensa.com in Spanish
According to Panama Civil Aviation Authority boss, 4 airlines (all Canadian and for charters) follow the developments of MPRH Rio Hato Scarlett Martínez Airport.
Seems like there'll be charters from Canada to MPRH this coming season.
Well 261 people were axed from the SJO base today. Feel sorry for those folks...38 pilots, the rest was a split between cabin crew, counter and ops. Also some routes were axed today, mostly Airbus routes...JFK LAX HAV GYE are no longer operated friom SJO...massive changes it seems...
summa767 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 2388 posts, RR: 7 Reply 126, posted (1 month 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 2889 times:
Quoting juanchito (Reply 123): According to this article Avianca-Taca will discontinue the following flights from SJO
SJO-LAX
SJO-HAV
SJO-JFK
SJO-UIO
SJO-GYE
Also SJO-PTY and SJO PTY-MDE
Quoting mingocr83 (Reply 124): Well 261 people were axed from the SJO base today. Feel sorry for those folks...38 pilots, the rest was a split between cabin crew, counter and ops. Also some routes were axed today, mostly Airbus routes...JFK LAX HAV GYE are no longer operated friom SJO...massive changes it seems...
Bad news indeed for the staff who have lost their jobs.
As for the way that Avianca-Taca handled the cancelation of these routes, only announced on the same day of the event is absolutely appalling.
Shame on Avianca.
Those routes were not mentioned in the article. Heck, SJO is now only slightly larger than GUA before these cuts were made. GUA serves SAP, TGU, ORD, MIA, LAX, FRS, SAL, and SJO. The only routes not served that SJO does are MGA, BOG and Mexico City.
yellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 5276 posts, RR: 2 Reply 128, posted (1 month 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2889 times:
Quoting mingocr83 (Reply 124): mostly Airbus routes...JFK LAX HAV GYE are no longer operated friom SJO...massive changes it seems...
Well DL will pick up the LAX slack at SJO.
Quoting mingocr83 (Reply 124): Well 261 people were axed from the SJO base today. Feel sorry for those folks...38 pilots, the rest was a split between cabin crew, counter and ops. Also some routes were axed today, mostly Airbus routes...JFK LAX HAV GYE are no longer operated friom SJO...massive changes it seems...
That was not the announcment(s) I was referring to. A few more days before it is made.
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
yellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 5276 posts, RR: 2 Reply 129, posted (1 month 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2879 times:
Quoting avi8 (Reply 125):
Sad to see so many routes being axed. What does this mean for SJO? Will AV/TA focus on having one hub at Central America rather than two?
I believe this is only the first tranche. we probably will see some more P2P dissappear in the coming months.IMHO
CM will benefit from these cuts more than AV.
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
Some things don't make sense, such as they state that flights to LIM, PTY among others remain, but are then listed in the discontinued lists. In the case of PTY there are only 2 daily flights (both chopped), one of which used to continue to MDE. In the case of LIM it looks like it goes from 13 to 7 weekly.
It really strikes of haphazardness in their communications, and general unprofessionalism.
Really quite disgustingly handled.
avi8 From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 505 posts, RR: 0 Reply 132, posted (1 month 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 2862 times:
So is SJO still a hub or is it a focus city like GUA now? Also, what are the service increases from SAL? Where are all these extra planes going? I never thought this would happen. I'm astonished.
aer From Guatemala, joined Mar 2004, 1015 posts, RR: 4 Reply 134, posted (1 month 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2815 times:
Quoting avi8 (Reply 125): Sad to see so many routes being axed. What does this mean for SJO? Will AV/TA focus on having one hub at Central America rather than two?
Wow so they are really GUA-ing SJO, but how are they gonna supplement it if AV doesn't fly to all of CentAm from BOG?
nice and spacious airports in need of new airlines and flights... GUA or FRS anyone?... anyone at all?
CRFLY From Costa Rica, joined Jan 2004, 193 posts, RR: 1 Reply 137, posted (1 month 17 hours ago) and read 2718 times:
This is one of the most horrendous HR move I've seen in LACSA since the pilot strike back in the 90s. Most of my friends at LR are gone now, and the situation was handled in the most unprofessional way they say. According to one of my ex Fight Attendant's friend, today they continue to fire people during the day, and the total workforce fired is now over 300. She said in the meeting the person in charge explained the SJO hub was posting losses on most of its flights, so they have decided to cancel the unprofitable flights and that means an important reduction in the workforce!
A really sad day for the aviation industry in Costa Rica and another hard hit for what its left from LACSA.
On a separate note, it seems like this news also took by surprise the people working on the call centers, as most of the operators today we shocking and experiencing high calls volume, and still don't know what to do or where to rebook these passengers, as many of the remaining flights were full, especially the ones to JFK, LAX and PTY! Sad sad day...
2travel2know2 From Panama, joined Apr 2010, 2076 posts, RR: 1 Reply 139, posted (4 weeks 1 day 22 hours 39 minutes ago) and read 2557 times:
One could have expected a bit flight cancellations advance notice, but how AV/TA has behaved with SJO and those flights passengers is unprofessional and unacceptable.
Now you really are.
In the meanwhile, a talk with Cayman Airways could get BZE linked with both GCM and PTY w/ twice weekly CM code-share GCM-BZE-PTY.
Quoting carmenlu15 (Reply 136): Yet CM is able to sustain 7 daily flights on the SJO-PTY route...
Thanks to PTY CM Hub of the Americas, without the hub frequencies will be down to 2 or 3 per day (among the airlines flying the route).
Hope that CM is able to think on the PTY-SJO O/D market and offer an early morning PTY-SJO (0530h PTY departure) and late evening SJO-PTY (2230 PTY arrival) - both times off the PTY hub bank hours.
aer From Guatemala, joined Mar 2004, 1015 posts, RR: 4 Reply 140, posted (4 weeks 1 day 20 hours 54 minutes ago) and read 2520 times:
Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 139):
One could have expected a bit flight cancellations advance notice, but how AV/TA has behaved with SJO and those flights passengers is unprofessional and unacceptable.
Seriously I would've expected this from an airline like NK but AV/TA just threw their brand down the drain.
I guess the playing field may become friendly for new local entrants finally.
nice and spacious airports in need of new airlines and flights... GUA or FRS anyone?... anyone at all?
carmenlu15 From Guatemala, joined Dec 2004, 4701 posts, RR: 34 Reply 141, posted (4 weeks 1 day 20 hours 39 minutes ago) and read 2506 times:
Quoting CRFLY (Reply 137): On a separate note, it seems like this news also took by surprise the people working on the call centers,
Why am I not that surprised? They had a knack for sending cancellation notices late on a Sunday afternoon -- not an easy task to try to contact passengers out of business hours...
Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 139): Thanks to PTY CM Hub of the Americas, without the hub frequencies will be down to 2 or 3 per day (among the airlines flying the route).
Yeah, figured most of it would be connecting traffic, but there has to be some O/D...
Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 139): Hope that CM is able to think on the PTY-SJO O/D market and offer an early morning PTY-SJO (0530h PTY departure) and late evening SJO-PTY (2230 PTY arrival) - both times off the PTY hub bank hours.
I wish they would do the same with GUA (early morning PTY-GUA / evening GUA-PTY), but I guess there's not that much demand for that...
Being a pioneer in any field is not by itself a guarantee of continued success - Pan Am, anyone?
mt99 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 6363 posts, RR: 7 Reply 143, posted (4 weeks 1 day 20 hours 11 minutes ago) and read 2503 times:
Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 139): One could have expected a bit flight cancellations advance notice, but how AV/TA has behaved with SJO and those flights passengers is unprofessional and unacceptable.
Agreed. TA/AV needed to cut their losses with SJO - but there are proper ways to do things and this is not one of them. Shame indeed
copa330200 From Panama, joined Jan 2011, 148 posts, RR: 0 Reply 144, posted (4 weeks 1 day 17 hours 24 minutes ago) and read 2459 times:
Quoting MGASJO (Reply 142): It seems CM is not wasting any time. They are in big need of pilots and will go to SJO to do some recruiting. Monday and Tuesday!
that's great news for the people who lost their jobs
now, there is clearly an opportunity for the Embraer pilots however I'm not sure how it works for the ex AV/TA pilots who are qualified in Airbus since CM has 73x /embraer... how "easy" and costly is to "migrate " from 319/320 to 737 /738 ??
mingocr83 From Costa Rica, joined Dec 2007, 44 posts, RR: 0 Reply 145, posted (4 weeks 1 day 15 hours 59 minutes ago) and read 2436 times:
Not only that, even Skymark has sent job offers to several pilots for A330 with several benefits.. QR sent a hiring crew for both pilots and cabin crew from DOH. Also LAN has offered the chance to hire ALL the pilots fired for their base in LIM. And last but not least...there is a rumor that CM will get an open skies agreement to poke AV in the nuts and is pushing for a base in SJO...with local pilots...let's see how it goes, certainly is gonna be a busy week for these folks.
The advantage of the majority of old pilots in LR is that they flew 737 as well...so they just need recurrent and they will be ready to go...
Also the situation is going to be worse in a few months, these layoffs are the start. SJO will stop being a hub for AV...I guess that Kriete was grabbed on the nuts by the Salvadorian government to not sacrifice SAL as as hub...Pilots that are currently working are also getting job offers...CM is including E90 pilots for their recruitment process.
SCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8316 posts, RR: 5 Reply 146, posted (4 weeks 1 day 15 hours 42 minutes ago) and read 2432 times:
Quoting mingocr83 (Reply 145): Also LAN has offered the chance to hire ALL the pilots fired for their base in LIM.
Indeed, LAN wants to hire all the redundant TACA pilots on contract for both the LIM and BOG bases. LAN is also offering contracts to TACA A320 pilots that have not been dismissed by AV as yet...
CRFLY From Costa Rica, joined Jan 2004, 193 posts, RR: 1 Reply 147, posted (4 weeks 1 day 12 hours 8 minutes ago) and read 2389 times:
What a big mess! According to my friends that were fired, and some others who stayed in AV/TA, they continue to fire people Saturday and Sunday! And the SJO Airport has been a total mess these days, and we are just starting the business week today, and because this happened Friday, I guess our Monday and Tuesday is going to be like Hell... I called the Call Center as one of my passengers was on the LR661 from JFK to SJO who was canceled, and after 1 hour waiting on the phone, they said "sorry we are very busy right now, can't protect your passenger at this time as he is flying until June. We haven't been able to protect all passengers for this week and we are still dealing with them, so we suggest you call in the next weeks..." Really unprofessional management... Now everything can be expected from AV... Just remembering ACES and the end of its history out lound...
2travel2know2 From Panama, joined Apr 2010, 2076 posts, RR: 1 Reply 148, posted (4 weeks 1 day 7 hours 30 minutes ago) and read 2338 times:
Quoting carmenlu15 (Reply 141): Yeah, figured most of it would be connecting traffic, but there has to be some O/D...
2-4 daily bus runs between Panama and San José may be a proof of that.
Quote: I wish they would do the same with GUA (early morning PTY-GUA / evening GUA-PTY),but I guess there's not that much demand for that...
IMHO, the only routes which may support CM off-hub banks departures/arrivals are for daily flights: SJO, MIA, MGA, CCS and LIM; for less than daily frequencies: MEX, JFK, GRU, GUA, HAV and SDQ. Off-hub times flights to/from BOG have the advantage of connections @ BOG w/P5 so they can't be classified the same as others.
Quoting MGASJO (Reply 142): It seems CM is not wasting any time. They are in big need of pilots and will go to SJO to do some recruiting. Monday and Tuesday!
Great move!
Good news for Tico pilots. CM still has some lack on how many foreign pilots it could hire without breaking Panamanian laws re: number of Panamanian pilots flying for CM.
Quoting copa330200 (Reply 144): now, there is clearly an opportunity for the Embraer pilots however I'm not sure how it works for the ex AV/TA pilots who are qualified in Airbus since CM has 73x /embraer... how "easy" and costly is to "migrate " from 319/320 to 737 /738 ??
Be reminded that there might be Airbus pilots who were B737-300 pilots when Lacsa (TA) were flying those. The migration from B737-300 to B737-700/800 may be a very swift and quick one.
Quoting mingocr83 (Reply 145): And last but not least...there is a rumor that CM will get an open skies agreement to poke AV in the nuts and is pushing for a base in SJO...with local pilots...let's see how it goes, certainly is gonna be a busy week for these folks.
Right now, Panama bilateral w/Costa Rica is a very unrestricted one.
I believe CM could already offer flights between SJO (or LIR for that matter) and most major SJO destinations but there's just a minor issue for CM if they would want to fly DAV-SJO as the current operator of the route is 7P Air Panama.
Quoting mingocr83 (Reply 145): Also the situation is going to be worse in a few months, these lay-offs are the start. SJO will stop being a hub for AV...I guess that Kriete was grabbed on the nuts by the Salvadorian government to not sacrifice SAL as as hub...
I don't doubt the Salvadoran government hand in all of this but SAL does have a point on their favour over SJO. SAL wins over SAL when it comes to climate conditions and land available for expansion.
Talking about why AV de-hubbed SJO,
I'd like now to take an opportunity to throw some blame to Costa Rica's Coopesa for their stubbornness to remain @ SJO not moving to LIR and using so precious land for a hub airport expansion, thus making it less attractive for AV to remain there.
carmenlu15 From Guatemala, joined Dec 2004, 4701 posts, RR: 34 Reply 149, posted (4 weeks 1 day 6 hours 38 minutes ago) and read 2315 times:
Quoting CRFLY (Reply 147): I called the Call Center as one of my passengers was on the LR661 from JFK to SJO who was canceled, and after 1 hour waiting on the phone, they said "sorry we are very busy right now, can't protect your passenger at this time as he is flying until June. We haven't been able to protect all passengers for this week and we are still dealing with them, so we suggest you call in the next weeks..."
I feel for them. Been there, done that, not fun at all. Though in my case, the airport (and the whole city) was covered by volcanic ash and airspace was closed... at least the cancellations were not the airline's fault.
yellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 5276 posts, RR: 2 Reply 151, posted (4 weeks 1 day 2 hours 53 minutes ago) and read 2236 times:
Quoting carmenlu15 (Reply 150): Lovely. One of the GUA-SJO daily flights is no longer showing in Amadeus after June 16, even though it's not on the list...
As I said...more cancellations are coming.
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
SJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 4128 posts, RR: 5 Reply 152, posted (4 weeks 17 hours 8 minutes ago) and read 2148 times:
I'm still in shock due to the recent announcements.
My conclusion is that SJO was not running profitable and the headquarters in Bogota decided to drop most of their unhealthy operations.
LACSA had a strong position within GRUPO TACA allowing many flights out of SJO, in spite of the dual service experienced at SAL. AV didn't believe in this model anymore.
We previously commented on this board about how inconvenient was this pattern: TA-LR [SJO-HAV] 3x weekly + TA SAL-HAV 4x weekly + TA LIM-HAV 4x weekly. In my view, AV dislikes the dual hub-system in Central America and SJO is suddenly reduced from its former status.
Noticed that many of the routes dropped even didn't operate on a daily basis: TA/LR [SJO-HAV], TA/LR [SJO-MTY], TA/LR [SJO-JFK], TA/LR [SJO-LAX]. TA/LR [SJO-SDQ] was dropped many weeks ago.
The triangular TA/LR [SJO-UIO-GYE-SJO] also disappeared from its network and the only chance is connecting through BOG.
Both LACSA and the former TACA flew the classic route into [SJO-PTY] for years. I cannot believe it.
AV/TA cannot ignore how PTY is doing nowadays concentrating all their flights in just one modern and expanded hub.
DL SJO-LAX is due to start on July 01st with 757 allowing very early departures from SJO. A new model in Costa Rica !
.
Quoting summa767 (Reply 131): In the case of PTY there are only 2 daily flights (both chopped),
Incredible. Well, CM PTY-SJO is 7x daily nowadays.
.
Quoting avi8 (Reply 132): So is SJO still a hub or is it a focus city like GUA now? Also, what are the service increases from SAL?
We don't have an official announcement yet.
.
Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 139): Hope that CM is able to think on the PTY-SJO O/D market and offer an early morning PTY-SJO (0530h PTY departure) and late evening SJO-PTY (2230 PTY arrival)
Both TACA and LACSA did operate in Panama City following this schedule allocation before.
2travel2know2 From Panama, joined Apr 2010, 2076 posts, RR: 1 Reply 155, posted (4 weeks 6 hours 37 minutes ago) and read 2049 times:
Quoting yellowtail (Reply 154): Air Canada and Westjet are not charter companies (although I guess one could charter from them).
Perhaps the idea with MPRH Rio Hato airport is that AC and WS will fly there like some airlines fly into LIR, with contracted for X amount seats by wholesalers and travel agents.
I can visualize Mr Salo Shama, Panama Tourists Authority "minister" enticing UA and AA to fly to Rio Hato too.
mingocr83 From Costa Rica, joined Dec 2007, 44 posts, RR: 0 Reply 158, posted (3 weeks 6 days 14 hours 26 minutes ago) and read 1881 times:
Rumor says that MEX and MIA will be axed as well in December....that should set the fate for SJO as hub. That should allow AMX to launch a late flight from SJO and early morning arrival to SJO...
2travel2know2 From Panama, joined Apr 2010, 2076 posts, RR: 1 Reply 159, posted (3 weeks 6 days 7 hours 40 minutes ago) and read 1824 times:
CM aircraft skids off PTY runway from www.prensa.com in Spanish
CM301 arriving from GYE skided off PTY runway yesterday evening while landing under a very heavy tropical rain-storm.
Passengers were quite scared but no injuries.
Rumours are that the cutting of the mangroves going on south of the "new" runway may have played a part in the poor drainage of the runway.
Quoting mingocr83 (Reply 158): Rumour says that MEX and MIA will be axed as well in December....that should set the fate for SJO as hub.
Both MEX and MIA are SJO P2P routes which may be sustainable by O/D traffic alone.
Clearly AV @ BOG isn't looking at SJO O/D and P2P traffic figures, but has other priorities where to deploy their aircraft.
In this scenario, would we see the day CM gets to fly P2P between MIA and GUA/MGA/SJO, P5 MIA-BOG?
I believe according to bilaterals with the countries involved, CM could do it.
aer From Guatemala, joined Mar 2004, 1015 posts, RR: 4 Reply 160, posted (3 weeks 5 days 22 hours 33 minutes ago) and read 1728 times:
Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 159): In this scenario, would we see the day CM gets to fly P2P between MIA and GUA/MGA/SJO, P5 MIA-BOG?
I believe according to bilaterals with the countries involved, CM could do it.
With GUA yes, since it has given most freedoms, except for internal flights.
nice and spacious airports in need of new airlines and flights... GUA or FRS anyone?... anyone at all?
SJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 4128 posts, RR: 5 Reply 161, posted (3 weeks 5 days 18 hours 42 minutes ago) and read 1663 times:
Quoting viaggiare (Reply 157): their sources hint at a second round of axed flights/jobs next month
As per June 16th, these are the confirmed withdrawals:
TA/LR [SJO-LIM] 13x to 7x weekly
TA [SAL-TGU-MIA] 7x weekly
TA [SJO-GUA] 14x to 7x weekly
.
Quoting mingocr83 (Reply 158): AMX to launch a late flight from SJO and early morning arrival to SJO
AM MEX-SJO was temporary increased last year from 7x to 14x until InterJet [40 MEX-SJO] 7x weekly started in June 2012.
AM CUN-SJO 7x weekly is no longer in service as well.
yellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 5276 posts, RR: 2 Reply 168, posted (3 weeks 4 days 23 hours 43 minutes ago) and read 1435 times:
Quoting carmenlu15 (Reply 167): No kidding!
And as Juanchito rightly points out, it's next Tuesday...
I recognize that AV wants to streamline the operation but they could have done it with a bit more class that doesn't bring ill will to their customers.....
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
SJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 4128 posts, RR: 5 Reply 170, posted (3 weeks 4 days 19 hours 1 minute ago) and read 1355 times:
Quoting SCL767 (Reply 165): At least Santiago de Chile will still have a daily direct service to San José de Costa Rica via LIM for now
TA/LR [SJO-LIM-SCL] 7x weekly will be the only flight connecting San Jose and Lima.
I don't think the authorities of Avianca would definitely drop the connectivity between two hubs of the airline.
Just a moment: SJO isn't likely a hub for AV anymore.
copa330200 From Panama, joined Jan 2011, 148 posts, RR: 0 Reply 171, posted (3 weeks 4 days 18 hours 47 minutes ago) and read 1348 times:
Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 164): San Jose is already the third destination for Copa Airlines, in terms of the demand of passengers yearly.
CM PTY-SJO is 42x weekly nowadays.
based on AV-TA changes that might improve very fast, I really hope CM pick some of the routes like SJO - MIA and SJO -MEX thought not sure CM has spare aircraft at this poin
SJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 4128 posts, RR: 5 Reply 172, posted (3 weeks 4 days 18 hours 23 minutes ago) and read 1341 times:
Quoting carmenlu15 (Reply 167): And as Juanchito rightly points out, it's next Tuesday
2012: Panama AeroPerlas left.
2013: SJO is dismantled.
What's next?
.
I fortunately still haven't read about massive stranded passengers due to the recent movements at SJO.
I'd hope all the tickets will be honored and the air transportation would be possible when the airline endorses tickets through other carriers.
carmenlu15 From Guatemala, joined Dec 2004, 4701 posts, RR: 34 Reply 173, posted (3 weeks 4 days 17 hours 35 minutes ago) and read 1307 times:
Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 172): I'd hope all the tickets will be honored and the air transportation would be possible when the airline endorses tickets through other carriers.
They are doing that in some cases... the passenger we had coming in on Monday was rerouted with CM.
Being a pioneer in any field is not by itself a guarantee of continued success - Pan Am, anyone?
2travel2know2 From Panama, joined Apr 2010, 2076 posts, RR: 1 Reply 174, posted (3 weeks 4 days 8 hours 1 minute ago) and read 1244 times:
Quoting copa330200 (Reply 171): based on AV-TA changes that might improve very fast, I really hope CM pick some of the routes like SJO - MIA and SJO -MEX thought not sure CM has spare aircraft at this point
I'd bet some people @ CM are studying right now (or perhaps again?) CM flying SJO/MGA/GUA-MIA.
CM may not be allowed to fly PTY-SJO-MEX due to Panama-Mexico bilateral and Costa Rica may not give 5th rights; similar situation if P5 applies for BOG-PTY-SJO-MEX due to Colombia-Mexico bilateral.
IMHO, If CM is able to match the unemployed former AV/TA staff (those B737 certified pilots) to available B737-800/-700/-600 in the market, CM could be able to make an effort and launch routes like SJO/MGA/GUA-MIA rather quickly.
And some pressure (incentives) for that from Costa Rica, Nicaragua and Guatemala might help.
Not sure if CM would go for SJO/MGA/GUA-FLL and/or only a daily non-stop at peak times and/or want to fly Embraer, but what ever CM is willing to offer SJO/MGA/GUA, best for them to take it.
avi8 From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 505 posts, RR: 0 Reply 175, posted (3 weeks 4 days 7 hours 31 minutes ago) and read 1242 times:
I could see CM adding a third daily SJO-GUA given that TA is reducing frequency. I fear that the TA p2p routes will vanish. Who will take over remains a mistery to me.
yellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 5276 posts, RR: 2 Reply 177, posted (3 weeks 4 days 4 hours 41 minutes ago) and read 1251 times:
Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 172): 2012: Panama AeroPerlas left.
2013: SJO is dismantled.
2012: Isleña?
Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 176): For Central American routes those would be King Quality, Vianna, Panaline and Tica Bus.
Or in our part of the isthmus, Linea Dorada and ADO
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
yellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 5276 posts, RR: 2 Reply 178, posted (3 weeks 4 days 3 hours 37 minutes ago) and read 1228 times:
I just noticed that RTB-ATL is a a 752 for the summer. Nice little upgrade for our friends from the Bay Islands.
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
SJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 4128 posts, RR: 5 Reply 181, posted (3 weeks 3 days 18 hours 35 minutes ago) and read 1122 times:
Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 174): CM may not be allowed to fly PTY-SJO-MEX due to Panama-Mexico bilateral and Costa Rica may not give 5th rights; similar situation if P5 applies for BOG-PTY-SJO-MEX due to Colombia-Mexico bilateral.
I don't visualize that the "de-hubbing" process equates to a huge spread of Copa Airlines at SJO.
Most of the extinct routes corresponds to destinations served with less than four weekly flights out of San Jose: Havana, Monterrey, New York JFK, Los Angeles non-stop and Medellín. Three in average.
The demise of TA/LR [SJO-PTY] 14x weekly is quite sensitive as well as the triangular TA/LR [SJO-UIO-GYE-SJO] 7x weekly. The connectivity between Ecuador and North and Central America seems to be more limited through BOG.
yellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 5276 posts, RR: 2 Reply 182, posted (3 weeks 3 days 18 hours 22 minutes ago) and read 1111 times:
Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 181):
I didn't understand why is Isleña questioned if it operates normally ?
Well it was asked which was next. It has long been rumored that Islena loses money. The OLD TA tried to sell it a few times. As a non core asset (like Aero Perlas) it might be shed sooner than later.
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
yellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 5276 posts, RR: 2 Reply 183, posted (3 weeks 3 days 8 hours 46 minutes ago) and read 1041 times:
Now Bookable......
Start dates vary.......BZE LAX is Dec 21 for example
yellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 5276 posts, RR: 2 Reply 185, posted (3 weeks 3 days 8 hours 26 minutes ago) and read 1026 times:
Quoting juanchito (Reply 184): Also the Arrival time into JFK from GUA seems odd.
Early morning typo!
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
SJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 4128 posts, RR: 5 Reply 186, posted (3 weeks 3 days 7 hours 47 minutes ago) and read 1009 times:
Quoting juanchito (Reply 184): Excellent do you know frequency for each flight.
Interesting news !
I've already check the frequencies at amadeus.net and found nothing. Thus, these operations are not confirmed yet.
DL JFK-GUA was in service for a little while back in 2008. TA GUA-JFK is not available anymore and jetBlue hasn't demonstrated interest to operate that segment.
DL LAX-BZE was also active some years ago.
DL and the former NW served Costa Rica through [Minneapolis / St.Paul - Liberia] on a weekly basis seasonally.
Both UA and AA flies to Central America from at least two US hubs. This scenario has been more complicated for Delta Air Lines. Good luck !
yellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 5276 posts, RR: 2 Reply 187, posted (3 weeks 3 days 7 hours 32 minutes ago) and read 1001 times:
Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 186): I've already check the frequencies at amadeus.net and found nothing. Thus, these operations are not confirmed yet.
Its bookable on Delta.com...probably hasn't propagated out as yet.
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
yellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 5276 posts, RR: 2 Reply 189, posted (3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 972 times:
Quoting avi8 (Reply 188): When is Dl making the official announcement? I'm curious about the frequencies.
Playing around with Delta.com they look to be Sat only. Press Releases are usually done on weekdays but with the holiday monday, guess we might not see one until Tuesday maybe.
In the end these are jsut some incremental flying so we may not see one at all.
Nevertheless I am excited...I have to go to LAX from BZE in Jan and I am going to work my schedule to take advantage of it.....
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
yellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 5276 posts, RR: 2 Reply 190, posted (3 weeks 3 days 6 hours 57 minutes ago) and read 965 times:
Now they all seem to be gone from delta.com......hmmmmmm
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
yellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 5276 posts, RR: 2 Reply 193, posted (3 weeks 3 days 4 hours 9 minutes ago) and read 923 times:
Quoting carmenlu15 (Reply 191): I see the flights loaded in Amadeus but they're not showing availability yet...
I see it.....they had inventory available this morning....but disappeared about 2 hours later......maybe they are adjusting something.
Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 192): The attachment in Spanish language states about how TA didn't notify with authorities the withdrawal of the discussed flights through SJO.
I smell a fine coming!
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
viaggiare From Costa Rica, joined Jan 2007, 2053 posts, RR: 9 Reply 194, posted (3 weeks 2 days 20 hours 19 minutes ago) and read 845 times:
Quoting yellowtail (Reply 193): Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 192):
The attachment in Spanish language states about how TA didn't notify with authorities the withdrawal of the discussed flights through SJO.
I smell a fine coming!
Their disregard for mandatory (formal) procedures might seem appalling, but the spinmeister extraordinaire sees no issue in failing to officially inform the DGAC as required by law..
"La comunicación la hizo nuestro CEO, Fabio Villegas, en reunión con la presidenta de la República y de manera simultánea, altos ejecutivos de la empresa le informaron a la Dirección de Aviación Civil."
And btw she's not talking about cancellations anymore.. turns out the axed flights have merely been "suspended" now.
Hope they are fined for behaving as if the DGAC was anything like that Salvadoran kangaroo court that granted the injunction against Copa back in 2005.
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...and I am not counting Tropic starting CUN and their announcement next week.
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I am totally on board with that idea!
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