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Australian Aviation Thread # 69  
User currently offlineQF175 From Portugal, joined Mar 2007, 677 posts, RR: 2
Posted (1 year 5 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 18943 times:

G'day and welcome to the Australian Aviation Thread # 69. In the previous thread, the following points were discussed/raised:

* Qantas International operations - 787s and A330s
* Perth and Adelaide - International Qantas flights
* Tiger announces it will re-commence services to Alice Springs and Maroochydoore later in 2013
* Garuda Indonesia announces nonstop Perth - Jakarta flights from June
* Sydney Airport - Long term plans
* ACCC's concern over Virgin's plan to acquire 60% stake in Tiger Airways Australia
* Virgin Australia E190 Business Class installation
* Brisbane and Melbourne Airports - New services and capacity increases
* Malaysia Airlines to reportedly increase services to Perth
* Sydney Airport - diversions
* Jetstar announces daily Ayers Rock/Uluru services from June, replacing QF and its 737-800s
* Qantas confirms cancellation of its Canberra - Darwin service
* Virgin Australia - Fleet repainting
* Philippine Airlines reportedly close to announcing Brisbane/Darwin/Perth flights
* Singapore Airlines temporarily decreases BNE/MEL/SYD flights
* Air Pacific reveals A330 schedules, with Brisbane being first Australian port to receive the a/c
* Brisbane International Terminal - Minor redevelopment
* Air Canada signals Brisbane as a possible contender for services to Vancouver
* Increased Jetstar Perth - Singapore services from April
* Qantas/Emirates codeshare update
* Qantas 737-800 VH-VXG and new 'Bring it On' decal
* Virgin Australia confirms A330s for 2 of 3 BNE-PER weekday flights from May
* Virgin Australia announces Brisbane - Moranbah & Bundaberg from APR/MAY respectively
* Virgin Australia profit announcement for 1/2 year period ending 31DEC12
* Emirates confirms a second, daily A380 service for Sydney
* The first Sichuan Airlines Chengdu - Melbourne service touches down

Australian Aviation Thread # 68

201 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineQF175 From Portugal, joined Mar 2007, 677 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (1 year 5 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 18943 times:

Ben175, you will no doubt be pleased that Philippine Airlines has finally confirmed Brisbane, Darwin and Perth services from June 2013.

BRISBANE
All services operate via Darwin with A320s

MNL/BNE 2205/0920+1 PR221 Mon/Wed/Sat
BNE/MNL 1010/1800 PR222 Tue/Thu/Sun

DARWIN
All services operate with A320s

MNL/DRW 2205/0400+1 PR221 Mon/Wed/Sat
MNL/DRW 2225/0420+1 PR219 Tue/Thu/Fri/Sat
DRW/MNL 1500/1800 PR220 Mon/Wed/Fri/Sun
DRW/MNL 1500/1800 PR222 Tue/Thu/Sun

PERTH
All services operate via Darwin with A320s

MNL/PER 2225/0750+1 Tue/Thu/Fri/Sun
PER/MNL 0850/1800 Mon/Wed/Fri/Sat

SOURCE - Philippine Airlines International Timetable

Fares are not yet bookable through Philippineairlines.com, however are available for booking via the likes of Zuji et al.


User currently offlineTruemanQLD From Australia, joined Feb 2007, 1512 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 5 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 18874 times:

Question... who does AeroCare look after at Brisbane airport?

User currently offlineBen175 From Australia, joined Jul 2008, 677 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 5 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 18804 times:

Quoting QF175 (Reply 1):
Ben175, you will no doubt be pleased that Philippine Airlines has finally confirmed Brisbane, Darwin and Perth services from June 2013.

Absolutely fantastic! So great to see yet another addition to PER, bringing an exotic new destination on the line. Hopefully the flights perform well and they can go direct eventually.


User currently offlineCXfirst From Norway, joined Jan 2007, 3039 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (1 year 5 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 18753 times:

Quoting TruemanQLD (Reply 2):

Question... who does AeroCare look after at Brisbane airport?

I believe Tiger Airways Australia, not sure who else (if any).

-CXfirst



From Norway, live in Australia
User currently offlineQuokkas From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (1 year 5 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 18747 times:

Quoting TruemanQLD (Reply 2):
who does AeroCare look after at Brisbane airport?
Quoting CXfirst (Reply 4):
I believe Tiger Airways Australia, not sure who else (if any).

Do they also look after Air Nuigini?


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25013 posts, RR: 85
Reply 6, posted (1 year 5 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 18621 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Having just read an article by Ben Sandilands - why do I do this to myself? - I'd like to pick up on the comments about the second Sydney airport from the previous thread.

The debate has been going on for as long as I have Australian memory - to the point where I've lost track of what the debate is all about.

I understand some of the debate is "political" - but why is it political? Most politicians are agreed it is a good idea (Sandilands says) but some are scared of a backlash. What backlash?

I understand that Sydney has enormous affection for its institutions, but surely Mascot won't close - or will it? And isn't this about financial benefit to massive Sydney? It can't be about money - can it?

I hesitate to invite opinions here because I suspect there may be some conflict, but it boils down to one thing in my mind - does Sydney need (or will it need in the foreseeable future) a second airport?

If it does, then - just do it. if it doesn't - why won't the issue go away?

mariner

[Edited 2013-03-01 14:40:57]


aeternum nauta
User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4872 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (1 year 5 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 18541 times:

Quoting CXfirst (Reply 4):
Quoting TruemanQLD (Reply 2):

Question... who does AeroCare look after at Brisbane airport?

I believe Tiger Airways Australia, not sure who else (if any).

-CXfirst

JQ...?

Quoting mariner (Reply 6):
If it does, then - just do it. if it doesn't - why won't the issue go away?

The way I read the 2nd Sydney Airport discussion would be the fact politicians either win or lose votes...
I really don't see why the residents of western Sydney have a say where it should be built, just build it! Lets not forget people of the west keep on complaining they have no jobs but yet they don't favour a major piece of infrastructure which brings jobs to their door step...

EK413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlinethegeek From Australia, joined Nov 2007, 2638 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 5 months 3 days ago) and read 18493 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 6):
I understand some of the debate is "political" - but why is it political? Most politicians are agreed it is a good idea (Sandilands says) but some are scared of a backlash. What backlash?

Umm, increased noise for people that aren't currently experiencing significant aircraft noise.

There's also a lot of $ involved.


User currently offlinetullamarine From Australia, joined Aug 1999, 1523 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 5 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 18433 times:

Quoting EK413 (Reply 7):

A second airport is a massive political issue in Sydney. The western suburbs of Sydney represent a population base of over 2m people. They are geographically distant from Mascot so the current airport t is not well sighted for them. These suburbs also represent a number of swinging electorates so whilst some will be attracted to the economic benefits attached to a new airport, there are a number who will not want the noise etc associated with a large curfew free airport.

There is also the politics of Mascot to consider. Sydney Airports Corp is wealthy and very well connected to both sides of politics they do not want to see their monopoly power eliminated so will constantly lobby against a second airport. There is also the issues like the curfew, and the fact the the current Minister for Aviation's electorate surrounds Mascot

Further complicating matters are the different cycles of state and federal parliaments . whilst both may agree it is a good idea, either one or other is adverse to risking making such a hot decision within sight of a election

Finally, there are other cities particularly Melbourne and Brisbane, who delight in the prevarication of Sydney. They will work against a large slice of federal funding going to Sydney to support the infrastructure required for a new airport as they know the longer a new airport is delayed, the more economic benefits flow to their cities.



717,721/2,732/3/4/5/7/8/9,742/3/4,752/3,762/3,772,W,A310,320,321,332,333,388,DC9,DC10,F28,F100,142,143,E90,CR2,D82/3/4,S
User currently offlineQF175 From Portugal, joined Mar 2007, 677 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (1 year 5 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 18415 times:

VIRGIN AUSTRALIA

- 777-300ER VH-VOZ returned to Sydney today sporting the new Virgin livery. This aircraft is to be named Palm Beach and joins VH-VPD and VH-VPH which also feature the new livery
- Fares for Virgin Australia's new services to Bundaberg and Moranbah from Brisbane went on sale earlier today, with fares starting at $61 and $102 respectively (for a Saver Lite fare)
- Airline representatives met with the Cloncurry Mayor recently to discuss future mining projects in the region and the possibility of flights to/from Brisbane - Source

SHARP AIRLINES

- South-East Australian regional carrier Sharp Airlines has launched a new customer facing website - Click here to view the new website

TOOWOOMBA AIRPORT

- Flights from Toowoomba to Roma are looking more likely in the next few years with the QLD Government confirming that the route would not fall under the 'regulated air route' scheme - Source
- The construction of the new Wagners Airport at Toowoomba is well under way, with grading works for the 2.8km runway the current focus. Wellcamp Downs Stud is located directly on the site of the new runway and Elders has been tasked to auction the Stud's equipment and facilities, ranging from tractors to stables. The Airport is on track to open in July 2014 and will be capable of handling small to large jet aircraft - Source. The new Airport paves the way for jet services to Sydney and other ports, and will allow larger freighter aircraft to land at the Airport delivering mining and other equipment

KOREAN AIRLINES - MELBOURNE

- The Airline operated its last scheduled flight from Melbourne to Seoul (Incheon) today, with A330-200 HL7552 operating the final service. Korean Airlines commenced thrice-weekly flights to Melbourne on 22 October 2007

PERTH - T2 NOW OPEN

- The new $120 Domestic Terminal (T2) opened today and is home to Alliance Airlines and Skywest. It is the first terminal to be built at Perth Airport for 26 years. Tiger Airways will join Alliance and Skywest when it commences services from the terminal in May. Visit the Airport's dedicated website to view more information about T2.

REGIONAL EXPRESS - DUBBO

- The Airline has announced that it may leave Dubbo Airport after the Council and the REX failed to reach an agreement with Dubbo City Council regarding the introduction of security screening charges

Quote:
As we highlighted and explained in our Media Release, Dubbo City Council (DCC) has decided to charge every Rex passenger about $9 per departure for security screening charges that are not required by law. This levy will go towards subsidising QantasLink flights, which are required by law to be screened and which necessitated this new screening regime at Dubbo airport. Rex passengers will be subsidising QantasLink around $300,000 every year.

Continues...

Visit REX's dedicated 'Stop Screening Charges at Dubbo' page for further information - Click here


User currently offlineTruemanQLD From Australia, joined Feb 2007, 1512 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (1 year 5 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 18214 times:

Quoting EK413 (Reply 7):
JQ...?

Would they wear JQ uniforms for such position? Or would they wear AeroCare uniforms?


User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4872 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (1 year 5 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 18175 times:

Quoting TruemanQLD (Reply 11):

Quoting EK413 (Reply 7):
JQ...?

Would they wear JQ uniforms for such position? Or would they wear AeroCare uniforms?


From below the wing they wear Aero Care uniforms but above the wing don't quote me but I believe it's JQ staff...

Quoting tullamarine (Reply 9):

You have valid points and so does

Quoting thegeek (Reply 8):

... Unfortunately SYD is going to fall behind MEL & BNE if the government doesn't step in and make a decision concerning a 2nd Airport OR plan B which is review the current conditions at SYD...

EK413

[Edited 2013-03-01 23:35:41]


Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlineZKOKQ From Australia, joined Mar 2012, 474 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (1 year 5 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 18143 times:

How much growth do we think BNE will see once the second runway is operational?

User currently offlineThe Coachman From Australia, joined Apr 2001, 1425 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 5 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 18111 times:

My post on #68 was right near the end so I'll move it across.

Does anyone know the VA SYD-PER rotations get aircraft allocations? I've been keeping track of the various regos that run VA555 (since I'll be on that flight in a couple of weeks) in the vain hope that I can find out which aircraft will operate the flight on my date (prefer -XFC,-D, -E for product reasons obviously).



M88, 722, 732, 733, 734, 73G, 73H, 742, 743, 744, 752, 762, 763, 772, 773, 77W, 320, 332, 333, 345, 388, DH8, SF3 - want
User currently offlinethegeek From Australia, joined Nov 2007, 2638 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (1 year 5 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 18080 times:

Quoting ZKOKQ (Reply 13):
How much growth do we think BNE will see once the second runway is operational?

My personal opinion? None in the short term. Longer term it's a bit hard to tell. That would be like forecasting the price of oil 15 years into the future. Seems a significant risk.

Quoting EK413 (Reply 12):
... Unfortunately SYD is going to fall behind MEL & BNE if the government doesn't step in and make a decision concerning a 2nd Airport OR plan B which is review the current conditions at SYD...

I wonder if Richmond can be made a public/military facility, like Williamtown. An airport at Badgery's Creek with less capability than SYD would only be used by narrow aisle aircraft IMO anyway.


User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4872 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (1 year 5 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 18040 times:

Quoting thegeek (Reply 15):
I wonder if Richmond can be made a public/military facility, like Williamtown. An airport at Badgery's Creek with less capability than SYD would only be used by narrow aisle aircraft IMO anyway.

I believe Richmond (RCM) in the past has been discussed & considered as an option but once again you face the same problem Badgerys Creek bring with it... If the 2nd airport was to provide any relief then Bankstown (BWU) is a far better option considering the close proximity to the city...

EK413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlineBill142 From Australia, joined Aug 2004, 8440 posts, RR: 8
Reply 17, posted (1 year 5 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 18004 times:

Quoting thegeek (Reply 15):
I wonder if Richmond can be made a public/military facility, like Williamtown. An airport at Badgery's Creek with less capability than SYD would only be used by narrow aisle aircraft IMO anyway.

Problem with this split use idea is that it will most likely become a while elephant like YMX. If anyone stumps up the cash for a new airport in SYD it has to be a replacement for the current airport and not a second airport as it has long been referred to. But the short sighted nature of our political parties outweighs the long term benefits posed buy building a new airport.


User currently offlineskyhawkmatthew From Australia, joined Oct 2005, 147 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (1 year 5 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 17907 times:

Quoting EK413 (Reply 16):
If the 2nd airport was to provide any relief then Bankstown (BWU) is a far better option considering the close proximity to the city...

Bankstown is really not an option. The runways are far too short and there's not nearly enough space or infrastructure for a full-on passenger operation. The circuit area is congested enough as it is with training aircraft and helicopter operations all over the place - not to mention there are already noise abatement restrictions in place with regard to the circuit training operations, let alone airline flights!

All that said, it was a pretty impressive sight seeing a Global Express hooking around base onto 29C the other day - don't know how feasible it'd be to have that size aircraft flowing in and out all day long though!



Qantas - The Spirit of Australia.
User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4872 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (1 year 5 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 17849 times:

Quoting skyhawkmatthew (Reply 18):

I'm well aware Bankstown isn't suitable, there was a masterplan released with the main runway extended to handle A320/B737 aircraft type... If we are talking about a 2nd airport to provide relief then Bankstown would provide that relief allowing low cost carriers to relocate from Sydney Kingsford Smith...

EK413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlineBen175 From Australia, joined Jul 2008, 677 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (1 year 5 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 17732 times:

Quoting The Coachman (Reply 14):
Does anyone know the VA SYD-PER rotations get aircraft allocations? I've been keeping track of the various regos that run VA555 (since I'll be on that flight in a couple of weeks) in the vain hope that I can find out which aircraft will operate the flight on my date (prefer -XFC,-D, -E for product reasons obviously).

I think it's quite random, if anything. I have flown DJ569 SYD-PER twice on a Sunday night, one was with VH-XFD and the second VH-XFB.


User currently offlineallrite From Australia, joined Aug 2007, 2012 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (1 year 5 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 17298 times:

Former CEO of Qantas James Strong has passed away. He was serving as a director on the board of the airline.


Applying insanity to normality
User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5212 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (1 year 5 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 17259 times:

Quoting EK413 (Reply 7):
I really don't see why the residents of western Sydney have a say where it should be built

Unfortunately Western Sydney is the geographic region that, almost singlehandedly, determines the outcome of elections, both Federal and NSW.

It is an incredibly "marginal" region, and - as the media noted recently with Julia's holiday there - whoever wins out west this year will almost certainly be PM.

Quoting EK413 (Reply 7):
people of the west keep on complaining they have no jobs but yet they don't favour a major piece of infrastructure which brings jobs

Good point. But don't let rational economic arguments get in the way of emotion 
Quoting Bill142 (Reply 17):
Problem with this split use idea is that it will most likely become a while elephant like YMX



I agree. Either that, or they will make Badgery Creek the one for international flights and have Mascot as the convient, city centre airport for domestic flights. See: HND/NRT, LIN/MXP, SHA/PVG, SDU/GIG - and note how useless those cities are for connecting hubs because operations are split over two airport.

MEL and BNE will be rubbing their hands with glee if they tried this!

In short: SYD would have to close. We should be aiming for HKG or BKK, not NRT or MXP. And certainly not YMX!

Quoting QF175 (Reply 10):
It is the first terminal to be built at Perth Airport for 26 years

Wow, if PER can't build a terminal in 26 years (how big was Perth then compared to today?!?) then we have no hope for a second airport in SYD within our grandchildren's lifetime...

Quoting QF175 (Reply 10):
The new Airport paves the way for jet services to Sydney and other ports, and will allow larger freighter aircraft to land at the Airport delivering mining and other equipment

I am really excited to see what the economic benefits of this airport will be for Toowoomba. The city has been living in the shadows for two long, it has a lot of potential and I think that this is the first step to realising it.



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlineQFVHOQA From Australia, joined Mar 2012, 419 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (1 year 5 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 17242 times:

Quoting Bill142 (Reply 17):
Problem with this split use idea is that it will most likely become a while elephant like YMX. If anyone stumps up the cash for a new airport in SYD it has to be a replacement for the current airport and not a second airport as it has long been referred to. But the short sighted nature of our political parties outweighs the long term benefits posed buy building a new airport.

If the 2nd airport has good transport links then I don't see it suffering the same fate as YMX. A heavy rail connection (whether to Badgery's Creek or Richmond) will improve its prospects as a 2nd airport. If a 2nd airport gets built I see Sydney ending up with a MXP/LIN situation with SYD offering short haul traffic and the 2nd airport doing long haul. Not the best situation but better than YUL/YMX.


User currently offlinetullamarine From Australia, joined Aug 1999, 1523 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 5 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 17182 times:

Quoting QFVHOQA (Reply 23):
Problem with this split use idea is that it will most likely become a while elephant

Infrastructure needs to be considered as a long term investment which is probably why it's best done by government rather than private enterprise. Sydney is a city of nearly 6M people and it is continuing to grow, albeit a bit slower than Melbourne and Brisbane. The footprint of greater Sydney can really only grow west. It is blocked by the sea to the east and national parks to the north and south. A city of 6M+ can easily handle 2 airports. If you consider greater Brisbane and the Gold Coast as one urban grouping, which it is now, then it already has 2 airports. Likewise MEL has 2 (with a third being planned for the south east) and Avalon's growth is restricted by MEL being curfew-free. Badgery's Creek won't have this limitation.

Look overseas and you will see most major cities have 2+ airports, NYC has 4 (when Teteboro is included), Washington has 2 with another 2 within an hour or so, Paris, Tokyo, Houston and Dallas have 2 whilst London has 5.

Badgery's Creek would probably start slowly but quickly gain critical mass via freight and back of clock operations. Realistically, even if it was given the go-ahead today, it is still probably 10 years from operation. How chaotic will SYD be by then!!!



717,721/2,732/3/4/5/7/8/9,742/3/4,752/3,762/3,772,W,A310,320,321,332,333,388,DC9,DC10,F28,F100,142,143,E90,CR2,D82/3/4,S
25 CXfirst : The entire fleet is rotated throughout the routes. The rotation happens at night. VA691, VA572 and VA697 all come at night. Two go back as VA696 and
26 thegeek : Well clearly public use of Richmond would not at all be like YMX, which is kept open by heavy freighters using it. It would be more like Avalon, but
27 sydscott : Not really. The owners of SYD have the first right of refusal to build and operate the second airport. So no Government money necessarily has to flow
28 tullamarine : Whilst they have the first right of refusal, they have no incentive to exercise these rights and a huge incentive to participate solely with aim of s
29 thegeek : 3 or more runways, one of which is at least 3.25km long! Is the land available at Badgery's Creek big enough for that? Probably correct. How long is
30 tullamarine : 99 year lease so they lose their management rights in 2101!!!
31 sydscott : Actually they don't. The first right of refusal is for a set period which I think is only a couple of years. After that the Government is free to bui
32 thegeek : SYD isn't enough of a basket case to justify throwing billions of dollars at closing it as far as I can see. It's actually a very convenient location
33 Post contains links sydscott : But that's the thing, you won't throw billions of dollars at it. In the end, if handled properly, it should actually make money. The business people
34 shnoob940 : Sorry if this has already been discussed, but is D7 going 2x daily on the KUL-SYD return rotation? (D7220/221?) cheers gibbo
35 tullamarine : You're right, hence SACL will do everything to prevent anyone making a firm decision. Why do you think they keep talking about there being plenty of
36 qf002 : The difference being that the population generally isn't as dependant on air travel in most of those examples. There are plenty of other examples whe
37 RyanairGuru : And I'll say it again. We end up with Haneda or Linate. Those cities are useless hubs. People flying CBR-SYD-HKG or ADL-SYD-LAX will go through BNE o
38 Mikey86 : Was the Air Canada announcement just speculation via a press release along with AC touting services to MEL? Does anyone have a reliable source that th
39 qf002 : But if we did it right, we could end up with an LCY, LGA, DCA etc. The trick would be to find the balance between domestic services at the new airpor
40 Post contains images RyanairGuru : Right, I think I understand what you're saying. If we take DCA and LGA, then we can actually add the likes of HND as well as being "good" regional ci
41 sydscott : Of course it will, it's just a telephone call to Macquarie Bank away from reality......................
42 mariner : The perimeter rule (2000 km) at DCA helps, although there are some (Congress mandated) beyond perimeter exemptions. Generally, if you want to fly lon
43 RyanairGuru : I agree, but I didn't bring it up as I think that SYD1-PER makes sense. After all, having open access from DCA and LGA to, say, SFO, LAX, SEA, DEN wo
44 mariner : Agreed again, but it is why I used the well-run DCA - which has beyond perimeter exemptions allowing a few transcons - as the primary example. The ma
45 koruman : I think that Sydney Airport could easily be a superb international and domestic airport, with a western Sydney secondary airport for the LCC market (T
46 qf002 : Agree with everything you say. It's also about putting transport options in place for people outside the city. It's pretty straightforward for most p
47 IndianicWorld : Syd2 better hope its not the next Mirabel if it is not co-ordinated well. Getting the ops mix right will be vital, especially given the amount of stak
48 travelhound : There are quite a few sensitive Ecosystems that make expanding Sydney Airport difficult. If you have a look at the environmental issues of extending
49 thegeek : Do you have any reason to believe that would be the case?
50 sydscott : That it would be handled properly? That depends on the Minister responsible. If it was Anthony Albanese, I'd give him buckleys chance.
51 SYDSpotter : Actually it's the main north-south runway which separates the domestic and international terminals, that you'll find is the big obstacle. There was a
52 Post contains links QFVHOQA : According to the Sydney Morning Herald, QF is considering buying used 744F's. It states that QF's deal with 5Y is soon ending and one of the options i
53 Zkpilot : Simple solution is to push the main runway out into the harbour alongside the other one (ending at the intersection with the cross runway. That whole
54 Ben175 : Last night (March 7) QF 71 PER-SIN was delayed nearly five hours, and was operated by VH-EBP, a domestic configured 332! Does anyone know what happene
55 Flyingsottsman : Had a quick flick through Australian Avaition last night in the Newsagency, they had a story on Melbourne Airport and Avalon airport, they say Melbour
56 tullamarine : Apart from the massive environmental issues of extending the runway further into Botany Bay, this doesn't overcome the other issues at SYD such as th
57 TN486 : There is a lot of statistics in this article, and although MEL is showing higher growth year on year compared to SYD and BNE, on completion of readin
58 Ditzyboy : I cannot comment on this occasion, but it has happened before with domestic 332s on PER-SIN and even 73H on at least one occasion. I can say on the o
59 RyanairGuru : Interesting, although I'm not sure I buy it. I thought that BNE was the second largest international airport, handling more international arrivals th
60 Post contains links EK413 : I stumbled across this article from the SMH... Qantas planes sold to Iran US investigators foiled a sophisticated plot to funnel three jumbo jets orig
61 RyanairGuru : I believe that there was a thread on this last year on here, with some [US] posters accusing Qantas of supporting the Iranian Govt etc etc The realit
62 IndianicWorld : Data can be cut in many ways, but in overall numbers, MEL is over 2 million international pax per year larger than BNE. Including OOL, MEL is still a
63 EK413 : I totally agree... That was my reaction to the article... EK413
64 ZKOKQ : I hope someone here is able to grab shots of the A380 doing a circuit over Sydney city on Monday around 1pm, tribute for James Strong..
65 Bris86 : BNE = Tiger Airways and Aeropelican. Also look after charter flights with Skywest.
66 BHMNONREV : I just recently moved to Darwin from the US, so I'm not all up on the Aussie aviation scene. Is there a plan to build a parallel runway at PER on the
67 thegeek : No, I was actually referring to this part: Is there actually a reason to think there is a non-zero possibility of this, even with perfect management,
68 Post contains links EK413 : Welcome OZ & A.Net... There are plans to build a parrallel runway but not for a very long time... The airport operators have no plans on building
69 Post contains links Quokkas : Welcome to Australia. This is part of the long (long) term plan for development at PER. A copy of the Master Plan (16.5MB) can be downloaded from htt
70 Post contains links BHMNONREV : Thanks for the link. I found what I was looking for here on page 61: http://www.perthairport.com.au/Libra...-_FINAL_MDP_-_Dec_2011_1.sflb.ashx Very a
71 CXfirst : PER does need it. Mornings are slot-constrained, and really for a city the size of PER, we shouldn't have a slot constrained airport at any time! Mor
72 EK413 : Thanks for sharing the link... Ambitious, I hope the expansion work is done sooner than later... EK413
73 Post contains images BHMNONREV : Agreed. I was reading somewhere that Qantas' leases in their domestic terminal expire in 2018 or somewhere thereabouts, so if the optimistic 2017 dat
74 EK413 : I believe there are no plans for QF to move anytime soon... They have completed expanding the lounge with seating for 100+ which occupies the concour
75 Quokkas : At this stage, the new Terminal 2 (Terminal WA) has been opened and accommodates Alliance Airlines and Skywest, with. Tiger Airways moving in May 201
76 Flyingsottsman : Yeah I have heard that to, I just wonder how they get these figures when there are airlines that serve SYD that Melbourne and Brisbane dont have fly
77 CXfirst : I read a while back, that soon after T2 opened, but before Virgin moved out, that Qantas was either going to move Jetstar or Qantaslink (or part ther
78 thegeek : On paper, it seems counter intuitive that PER would need an airport bigger or at least as big as MEL in terms of runway capacity. Why is it so?
79 IndianicWorld : Smaller planes requiring more flight movements I would say. MEL is generally A320/737 size and above, with limited regional ops, whereas PER operates
80 Ben175 : PER has a highly lucrative FIFO market that sees 6am-8am skyrocket in terms of aircraft movements. Yes, there are periods during the day (2am-5am and
81 eaglefarm4 : BNE currently is the airport with the most problems due to only 1 runway and up to 700 movements a day on weekdays which is a lot more than Perth.
82 thegeek : I wonder if there could be any consolidation of flights onto bigger planes or moving the smaller planes to Jandakot? The second runway only handled II
83 CXfirst : Why should they move to Jandakot, when there is space for another runway? Runways do cost a lot of money, but Jandakot would probably need some work
84 thegeek : Seems a very expensive project for which mainly a few FIFO flyers will benefit. Perhaps the cost should be transferred to them. Slot controlling the
85 Airvan00 : The question I'd ask does cross-runway ops like MEL (one runway takeoffs and one runway landings have a significantly greater capacity than a single
86 eaglefarm4 : Since BNE has gone to single runways ops the record of 57 on one runway in 1 hour was recorded and 719 in the day. It is currently the 2nd busiest sin
87 Quokkas : On the surface, this may have some merit but bear in mind that not all FIFO workers are based in Perth; some fly in from interstate and getting from
88 BenSandilands : While there are many well argued views about a second Sydney Airport there are a few factuals to keep in mind. The protected site is legally defined a
89 koruman : More posts please, Ben. I only share a fraction of your opinions, but you're always fascinating to read. So please, more!
90 CXfirst : I just want to clarify. It really isn't just a few passengers. Although most come from the PER region, there are plenty of other passengers transferr
91 BenSandilands : Thanks Koruman My opinions are unimportant. The motive is to un-spin the flow of information in the MSN, or rather, to resist the message managers. I'
92 gemuser : 300 words! At work (a TAFE college) we have come to the conclusion is that it is 160 characters max for today's school leavers! Gemuser
93 Post contains images mariner : Fair enough, but from my perspective the spin cuts both ways, the naysayers can be as irrational or as prejudiced as the fans - we are all conditione
94 Post contains links sydscott : A small update from the IASC; http://www.iasc.gov.au/applications/index.aspx - The transfer of Qantas codeshare capacity on the Italian route from CX
95 RyanairGuru : Thanks for that Ben. I don't often see eye to eye with you, but your post is highly informative and makes a lot of sense. From what you say surely th
96 TN486 : Totally agree with you. As an aside, in my role as an Ageing Positively Ambassador (voluntary), I find the youth are very much in awe of the Mature A
97 thegeek : Thanks for your other facts, but this fact is largely irrelevant. SYD has an amazing use of its land area thanks to the runways in the bay. A more re
98 BenSandilands : The Geek, My distinct impression was that the joint state/federal panel which studied the alternatives for a second Sydney basin airport leaked the 'N
99 mariner : Many educationalists lay the blame on "Sesame Street" for encouraging the short attention span. I don't see the problem. We have members here whom I
100 RyanairGuru : The Commonwealth and NSW Governments' policies notwithstanding, I think this is the biggest concern about a second airport in Sydney, and that city's
101 Post contains images mariner : Sure - but it's a long way from civil aviation, so I've sent you a pm. mariner
102 TN486 : I have 2 youngies assisting me at the moment, and we are sharing as you are, its sheer delight. As my father used to say "Do unto others as you would
103 sydscott : How do you turn an imbecile into a commentator? Pay them by the word apparently. But, I suppose, if her pay was based on saying something sensible sh
104 SYDSpotter : Would you not in this instance make the Nepean option into a mega sized airport (i.e. 4-5 runways) and get rid of SYD as it stands, or does even the
105 BenSandilands : These suggestions are always interesting but at the risk of being speared there are some problems. I think what we are missing in this discussion is t
106 SYDSpotter : I didn't take into account the flow on impact of relocating SYD to out to a western Sydney location but not sure it would have the scale of the impac
107 PITrules : Absolutely; one only needs to reference LGA and MDW. In the case of LGA, it is a significant increase in capacity (handling approx 360,000 movements
108 BenSandilands : SYDspotter, Your reference to PPP performance is a really vital but difficult issue, and probably way beyond the remit of Airliners.net. The early pri
109 Post contains links mariner : Air New Zealand last week released excellent financial numbers, and gave some clues to its actions and its future. Air NZ is not, of course, an exact
110 Post contains images RyanairGuru : I look forward to Koruman's response, he has a bee in his bonnet about NZ's Asia operations
111 Post contains links and images mariner : I'll leave Koruman to speak for himself, but he seemed to have had something of an epiphany in another thread - and good on him for that, I dips my l
112 RyanairGuru : I went back and read over the end of the other thread, and I really must apologise to you Koruman. To provide a more constructive comment, it is inter
113 Post contains images EK413 : MU *cough* *cough* The relationship will only grow stronger once JQ HKG takes off... EK413
114 sydscott : Lets also face facts here, if QF is in a hard place it is one of their own making. You only need to look at OW with Malaysian, Cathay and JAL along w
115 SYDSpotter : Ben, unfortunately in these modern times, it's all about $$$. The private equity deal to buy Qantas was all about financial engineering, load Qantas
116 sydscott : I disagree with this. What the Company's that generate large amounts of corporate traffic will do is demand proper infrastructure be built to transpo
117 Post contains links mariner : True. But - happily, I think - airlines are finding partners outside their alliances. And it has time to find one as South America - with no clue as
118 Post contains links EK413 : Another QF B744 is off to VCV VH-OJJ... Here's a photo of her being prepared for the long journey... www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=4560...=1&rel
119 The Coachman : If anyone has the info, it'd be appreciated to know which aircraft will be operating VA555 SYD-PER this Saturday 16 March.
120 sydscott : Very true. Could NZ actually do AKL-GRU-AKL non-stop with their 77W or would it have to stop on the Westbound leg?
121 Post contains images mariner : I'M not a Tech Wallah, I've no real idea, but it seems a looong way. The A340 could do it easy, but that's not going to happen. I guess the obvious o
122 thegeek : ^ I think you meant SCL, not SLC. AKL-GRU is about as far as SYD-LAX, but with virtually no alternates for the last part of the trip. My estimate is t
123 RyanairGuru : I'm aware of these examples, which is why I used the word "appropriate" partner. I hope that MU happens, as it will give QF very good access to the C
124 mariner : Sure, SCL - my bad, I usually check it. I think the reason AKL-GRU (non-stop) came up is because of the open skies agreement between NZ and Brazil si
125 sydscott : But that's the thing, they're ALL appropriate partners and all for differrent reasons. If we examine using your logic; MU - to cover Northern China,
126 QFVHOQA : Could NZ not use Avianca-Taca as a partner? Admittedly they don't have the same reach as LATAM, but a AKL-LIM flight could work to link with Taca Per
127 eta unknown : All Heavylift route authorities ex Australia have been cancelled by The International Air Services Commission.
128 Post contains links and images EK413 : I was reading on another discussion the QF/EK Alliance will include freight Today we will announce that from 31 March, Emirates SkyCargo and Qantas Fr
129 thegeek : They'd be stupid not to.
130 Aussie_ : Can I just say that it is great seeing you posting here, Ben. I have been a long time avid reader of your blog and applaud your willingness to tackle
131 Post contains links TN486 : Is there light at the end of the tunnel for the proposed MEL rail link? http://finance.ninemsn.com.au/newsbu...-chosen-for-melbourne-airport-link
132 Post contains links Quokkas : Shareholders at a meeting in Singapore have approved the 100% sale of Skywest to Virgin Australia. The deal still remains subject to approval by the F
133 Ben175 : XR has started using the 320 on Perth-Kalgoorlie, and their second (VH-YUD) has just been put on the Australian register.
134 jetfuel : QF8 diverted to LAX at 1AM. On the ground until tomorrow. Late arrival into BNE 23:40 INSTEAD OF 5:15
135 SYDAIRPORTS : Have been reading with much interest about Sydney airports. Nothing much seems to have been mention about Bankstown & it's close proximity to much
136 BenSandilands : Thanks for the tip off concerning Bankstown. There was a very well researched study made into Bankstown back in the 90s, which is probably about the t
137 SYDAIRPORTS : yes that's sounds fine, but none of above can happen fast. Bankstown exists & jets & turbo props fly there now. SYD & BNE are both congest
138 thegeek : 146s and F100s are pretty old planes. I think there needs to be a plan that outlasts their retirement. Richmond makes far more sense to me than Bankst
139 BenSandilands : As I understand it the regular carriers can access Richmond under current regulations similar to those that permitted shared use with the RAAF at Will
140 SYDAIRPORTS : 146's & F100's used extensively for FIFO ops & will be for quite a few years to come. Talking old, QF still has some 734's in their fleet at p
141 BAeRJ100 : I fly on the 146's every day and they're definitely beginning to show their age (just last year the oldest pax model in service was retired after alm
142 Post contains links thegeek : I've never heard that before. A terminal on the north side of the runway would be a bit of a problem both for passengers and the ADF, I'd have though
143 BenSandilands : I did some checking around the other day and a 3000 metre runway will fit in the current site. The enthusiasm of the state/federal panel which recomme
144 thegeek : I think the runway needs to be about 3.3km for a 747-8. Not much different for a heavier 777 either. I've never seen that included in the plan. Perhap
145 BenSandilands : Having witnessed an A380 prototype depart from Sydney to Vancouver at the then MTOW limit of 569 tonnes and rotate at the intersection of the east wes
146 SYDSpotter : Bigger aircraft won't solve the issue, both QF and VA compete on frequency (for the business/corporate market). So they will never reduce frequency b
147 thegeek : That's not a balanced field take off, which has to assume that an engine fails at the most inconvenient point. If you've noticed a pilot call of "V1"
148 eta unknown : True, but at the same time something's gotta give and if you remove some of the cheap seats between MEL/SYD/BNE then do you really need to operate al
149 BenSandilands : The cheap seats are for the airport owners the profitable seats. The per head pax charges are a critical part of airport earnings, just like the outra
150 SYDAIRPORTS : Who said anything about reducing frequency ? As demand increases more flights will have to be wide bodies. it all depends on keeping overheads low. I
151 BenSandilands : By nominal civil engineering standards construction could be achieved in three years, if all the plans and specs and approvals were in place. Which is
152 SYDSpotter : OK, so how does increasing the size of aircraft solve the capacity issue at SYD? Whether you fly a 737 or 747 it is still one flight slot departure.
153 StickShaker : PER has grown exponentially in the past 8 to 10 years and not just in terms of FIFO pax - flights to most eastern capitals have grown from 738's to 76
154 Flyingsottsman : So does that mean Heavylift wont operate in Australia at all now? When I was up in CNS in 2010 I saw the 727 100F being broken up, what is happening
155 eaglefarm4 : The Belfast is up for sale and is still in CNS.
156 RyanairGuru : To be blunt, the 50 seaters field performance (especially hot n high) is crap. I've heard stories of flights that were fully booked leaving DEN in th
157 sydscott : The problem with PER is the serious lack of investment in Airport Infrastructure. For WAC to continually point to incorrect traffic estimates as a re
158 thegeek : Seems a common theme at all our airports. None want to invest in new runways. Can't say I blame them either. Where is the commercial return?
159 SYDAIRPORTS : Exactly. A 747-400 can hold up to 480 in 2 class configuration or more in the Japanese domestic only version, while a 737-800 can hold 189 max in all
160 sydscott : The issue for PER isn't even a new runway. (In fact it's mainly not a new runway!) The issue is more the terminal facilities, parking in the Internat
161 SYDAIRPORTS : FJ's 1st brand new aircraft has just arrived in NAN yesterday think it was. In November FJ receives it's 3rd & apparently the old SQ 744's(former
162 IndianicWorld : Ummm..what? Lion Air Australia won't likely be a reality for a long time if at all. It was a plan up to 7 or so years ago to have a JV with an airlin
163 SYDAIRPORTS : Imagine a lot of their costs will be in Indonesia. Back office, heavy maintenance etc. Won't be hard to get aircraft to Indonesia for maintenance. Pr
164 mariner : I have never understood why the bright sparks in Canberra thought it was a good idea to allow majority foreign ownership of Australian domestic airli
165 IndianicWorld : Not unlike TT now with its SIN links, and look how that is going. Its nothing that TT has not already tried and still hasn't made money. Lower freque
166 Post contains links SYDAIRPORTS : But Tiger didn't go after the Golden triangle, but instead went for nonstop routes not serviced. What curfews ? Only SYD has curfew & hardly cent
167 BenSandilands : The perplexing thing about domestic ownership policy is lack of reciprocity on a case by case basis. There are very smart people in the major Australi
168 SYDAIRPORTS : Lion Air Indo will reportedly only own 49% of Lion Air Australia.
169 SYDAIRPORTS : With high probability of new PM in about 2 hours time & new govt in less than 6 months time, what changes will this make to aviation policy in OZ
170 BenSandilands : If Lion Air Australia wants to fly international routes out of Australia its foreign ownership would be limited to 49%. If it were to restrict the Aus
171 IndianicWorld : They are going after that market hard now and still aren't making money. What does that tell you? It should say a lot,especially as there is a capaci
172 mariner : I was thinking of of airlines that do exist, such as Tiger or even, if you will, the way Virgin Blue was originally structured. I've no idea what Lio
173 Boof : Hmmm SYDAIRPORTS, you wouldn't happen to be REALDEAL by chance? You have similar opinions... Lion Air where going to partner with SkyAirWorld last tim
174 SYDAIRPORTS : Not really. Current Tiger schedules:- MEL/SYD arriving before 9am is only 3 days a week Mon, Fri & Sun. SYD/MEL arriving before 9am is Mon-Fri on
175 IndianicWorld : And? That doesn't mean theres a market for them in Australia. The market they are chasing is as viable as they can get it. Why go and add more capaci
176 Post contains images mariner : The most continuously profitable airline in the US is LCC as is the most continuously profitable airline in Europe. Some crumbs. mariner
177 IndianicWorld : I get where you are coming from but in reality they are very different markets. The fact is in a market of 23 million people (against 300 million plu
178 mariner : They are certainly different markets, if only in size. But neither of the airlines I mentioned were "big" airlines when they started and it was seven
179 SYDAIRPORTS : VA has stolen some of QF's market share partly by consistently being a few dollars cheaper than QF (not just on domestic, but also international espec
180 IndianicWorld : I certainly take on board what you are saying Mariner, but I think its important to look at a couple of points here that worked in Southwest and Ryana
181 SYDAIRPORTS : Asian don't mind being subservient, Australians do, so if Lion Air Australia has an Asian flavour then maybe they can suceed in Australia like SQ has
182 mariner : Certainly there are. There are things that worked in Virgin Blue's favour as well, such as the collapse of Ansett. Any savvy CEO will take advantage
183 BenSandilands : Tiger's performance in the quarter ending December 31 was, like Jetstar's in the first half year to the same date, affected by the fare war between Qa
184 Post contains links CXfirst : I think it's closer than you think. There was mention of Australian operations under the Airbus aircraft purchase ceremony. http://blogs.crikey.com.a
185 mariner : You may be right, but if this happens, if Virgin Australia gets Tiger, then it is simply yet another replay of the duopoly, and we've been there, we'
186 IndianicWorld : I can see Lion Air taking on a significant Indonesia-Australia expansion, likely using its Batik air and the main Lion Air brands also for some servic
187 Post contains links SYDAIRPORTS : O'Leary of Ryanair in interview in last 48 hours, says that the difference between 180 seat A320 & 189 seat B738 is huge from there point of view.
188 RyanairGuru : I'm assuming that Indonesia has the 1:50 rule (as opposed to our bizarre 1:36) Going over 200 means that they need another flight attendant. The reve
189 SYDAIRPORTS : yes but doubt if Lion Air Australia will be paying anything like QF or VA flight attendnats pay, probbaly more like Tigers or less.
190 RyanairGuru : Which is why I used the Ryanair example who probably pay even less, MoL is emphatic that the 739/321 would be counterproductive for FR
191 aryonoco : Well, Airbus now has a 236 seat config for the A321NEO, don't they? If MOL thinks those 9 extra seats between a 738 and a A320 make so much difference
192 Post contains links mariner : I wouldn't be too optimistic about that still air range. I would fall over in shock if the A321Neo had the range for CGK-SYD and CEO Parker of US Air
193 RyanairGuru : Are you sure? I ask because that is the highest density configuration for the 757, which is quite a bit longer. Maybe with slimline seats it is now p
194 Post contains links mariner : It does - or can: http://www.aviationweek.com/Article....l/avd_01_18_2013_p04-02-538213.xml "Airbus Offers 236-Seat High-Capacity Variant For A321NEO
195 BenSandilands : The seat count and relative efficiency argument is always drastically oversimplified by the jet makers for popular consumption. When up to 40% of the
196 mariner : There is always some truth in what Michael O'Leary (MOL) says - while he remains an attention whore. The idea that those nine seats can reduce fares
197 aryonoco : Well I am certainly less knowledgeable and less informed than Mr. Parker, but I'm optimistic the A321NEO should be able to do that. Word is that the
198 Post contains links mariner : There has always been a disconnect between the numbers that Airbus publishes and the routes that airlines actually fly and a lot of it has to with st
199 QFVHOQA : If the A321NEO can't make SYD-CGK, maybe SYD-DPS or SYD-SUB would be better options? And then connecting to elsewhere in Indonesia / SE Asia from the
200 RyanairGuru : Absolutely, transcons are a pain for the Airbii, and it is on such routes that the 73H's slightly longer range really comes into its own. There are r
201 Post contains links and images QF175 : Australian Aviation Thread # 70 is up and running
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