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Air China Orders 30 Boeings On 3-1-2013  
User currently offlinejustinlee From China, joined Aug 2012, 331 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 16725 times:

According to the announcement of Air China, CA orders 2x748I, 1x77W, 20x738 and Air China Cargo orders 7x777F on 3-1-2013. Air China also has the option to convert 4x738 to 1x77W. Air China will sell back its 7x744 to Boeing.

The prices for these planes are as follows: 748I-340 million USD, 77W-300 million USD, 738-80 million USD, 77F-280 million USD.

This order will increase Air China's total capacity by 18.7% in terms of available ton kilometers and 19.1% if Air China choose to convert 4x738 to 1x77W.

The link is in Chinese:
http://stock.sohu.com/20130301/n367554155.shtml

[Edited 2013-03-01 07:37:56]

55 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinewarren747sp From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1136 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 16715 times:

Wow, more 748 passenger jet! now if CX will just follow.


747SP
User currently offlinefrancoflier From France, joined Oct 2001, 3613 posts, RR: 11
Reply 2, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 16500 times:

Quoting warren747sp (Reply 1):

Given their partnership with Air China and their fleet of -8F, you can't be faulted for hoping! There is a real 747 culture in CX, but at the end of the day, money rules...

There is still no clue which way this one will go...

[Edited 2013-03-01 07:52:19]


Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit posting...
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 29672 posts, RR: 84
Reply 3, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 16348 times:
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Quoting warren747sp (Reply 1):
Wow, more 748 passenger jet! now if CX will just follow.

All seven 777Fs were originally ordered by CX, who cancelled their 8-frame today (while adding five options) and took over three 747-8Fs that CA intended to order from Boeing.


User currently offlinena From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10358 posts, RR: 11
Reply 4, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 16062 times:

Nice to hear about two more 748I orders.

User currently offlineN14AZ From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2607 posts, RR: 25
Reply 5, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 15948 times:

Quoting justinlee (Thread starter):
Air China will sell back its 7x744 to Boeing

Could it be that this is a new approach of Boeing as part of their 748-sales campaigns? It sounds very similiar to the deal for additional CX 748Fs as reported in the other thread.


User currently onlineDevilfish From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4691 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 15801 times:

Quoting na (Reply 4):
Nice to hear about two more 748I orders.

Would be nicer if one or both come in VVIP configuration.  



"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
User currently offlinena From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10358 posts, RR: 11
Reply 7, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 15763 times:

Quoting N14AZ (Reply 5):
Could it be that this is a new approach of Boeing as part of their 748-sales campaigns? It sounds very similiar to the deal for additional CX 748Fs as reported in the other thread.

If so, its not very successful, taking back 7 old 744s for selling just two new Jumbo-Jets. Now if they would have ordered 7 748Fs the sales department would have more to celebrate...

Btw, Air China Cargo has 9 BCFs/BDSFs at the moment, so it seems they´ll keep 2 frames.


User currently offlineRubberJungle From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2010, 400 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 15557 times:

Air China is taking eight 777Fs, the ones Cathay has just cancelled.

[Edited 2013-03-01 09:12:44]

User currently offlineSASMD82 From Netherlands, joined Mar 2007, 706 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 15401 times:
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So what's the point of having both 77W and 748i in one fleet? I really don't understand this unless they get huge discounts.

Anyway, congrats to Boeing. A nice order.


User currently offlineb777erj145 From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 93 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 15167 times:

Good for Boeing and Air China. I novice here as I just started this hobby so a question what Boeing will do with used 744s?

User currently offlinena From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10358 posts, RR: 11
Reply 11, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 15041 times:

Quoting SASMD82 (Reply 9):

So what's the point of having both 77W and 748i in one fleet? I really don't understand this unless they get huge discounts.

Well, I´d understand if you´d ask why others airlines operate 772s and 77Ws, but this question? They are both very different planes, the 748I being quite a bit bigger and able to offer superior accomodation for its high-yield passengers.

Quoting Devilfish (Reply 6):
Would be nicer if one or both come in VVIP configuration.  

Why?


User currently offlinena From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10358 posts, RR: 11
Reply 12, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 14958 times:

Quoting b777erj145 (Reply 10):

Good for Boeing and Air China. I novice here as I just started this hobby so a question what Boeing will do with used 744s?

Those planes in question are between 18 and 23 years old, capable of flying 5 or 10 years more. They will be offering them to operators who still got 742Fs or startups who might be tempted by a low pricetag. And/or maybe Boeing will possibly scrap the oldest frames to take pressure from the currently soft market if they dont sell in the next 12 months or so. Some will surely find a new home.


User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 7871 posts, RR: 10
Reply 13, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 14829 times:

Quoting SASMD82 (Reply 9):
So what's the point of having both 77W and 748i in one fleet? I really don't understand this unless they get huge discounts.

There are significant size differences for one. LH operates both 748i's and A346's for example.


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 29672 posts, RR: 84
Reply 14, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 14681 times:
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Quoting SASMD82 (Reply 9):
So what's the point of having both 77W and 748i in one fleet?

Depending on how you configure it, there is about a 75-seat delta between a 747-8 and 777-300ER so AC might have routes that higher traffic and therefore can make use of the extra seats the 747-8 offers.



Quoting b777erj145 (Reply 10):
so a question what Boeing will do with used 744s?

In addition to na's comments, Boeing could also strip some of them for spares to re-stock their stores.


User currently onlineDevilfish From Philippines, joined Jan 2006, 4691 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 14682 times:

Quoting na (Reply 11):

Why?

It's just the enthusiast in me talking   .

Quoting SASMD82 (Reply 9):
So what's the point of having both 77W and 748i in one fleet?

The hoi polloi fly on the former while the hoi oligoi enjoy the latter.   



"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
User currently offlinebikerthai From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 2006 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 14013 times:

Quoting na (Reply 12):
capable of flying 5 or 10 years more.
Quoting na (Reply 12):
Some will surely find a new home.


With global climate change and increase chance of wild fire, there may be a market to 747 tankers.


bt



Intelligent seeks knowledge. Enlightened seeks wisdom.
User currently offlinelegacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2022 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 13940 times:

I think SFO is the last International 74M/744 route being flown by CA. The 74M is finally being replaced by a full pax 744 this coming Spring when JFK goes over to the 777-300ER. I anticipate SFO to get the 77W in the next year or two.


John@SFO
User currently offlineB2468 From United States of America, joined Sep 2009, 89 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 13014 times:

Great to see more 748i in CA livery (I know many don't like their livery, but I love it)!

I just hope my namesake 744M doesn't get the axe!



Dash-8/ERJ/306/310/319/320/332/333/343/346/388/72S/731/732/733/734/73G/738/741/744/74E/752/762/763/77E/77W/DC9/D1C/M82
User currently offlineTheAviator380 From UK - England, joined Feb 2013, 358 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 12398 times:

Which route CA will deploy those 2 747-8i? Any idea guys?

User currently offlinelegacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2022 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 12187 times:

Quoting B2468 (Reply 18):

The 74M will be withdrawn from service this Spring. This time next Summer, CA will no longer fly their 747s until the 748s arrive .



John@SFO
User currently offlinedtfg From China, joined Jan 2013, 74 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 11219 times:

when will the 747-8I be delivered?

User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4680 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 10690 times:

LH operate the A346, B744, B748i & A380 along aside one an other so I don't see the problem with CA operating the B77W & B748i...

Well done Boeing & CA...

EK413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24312 posts, RR: 47
Reply 23, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 10622 times:

Quoting legacyins (Reply 17):
I think SFO is the last International 74M/744 route being flown by CA. The 74M is finally being replaced by a full pax 744 this coming Spring when JFK goes over to the 777-300ER. I anticipate SFO to get the 77W in the next year or two.

I'm surprised CA has hung onto the older 747s at SFO.

They were pretty fast to bring their new product and go double daily at LAX using the 77W.

Dont they view SFO as competitive market worthy of their best product?



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinecarpethead From Japan, joined Aug 2004, 2910 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 10569 times:

Quoting Devilfish (Reply 6):
Would be nicer if one or both come in VVIP configuration.

Since CA is returning the remaining 744s, which one usually operated for VIP missions, it is certainly feasible the two additional 748s will be for VVIP operations.
Both #1 & #3 world economic powers operate a pair of 747s, so why shouldn't PRC join the club too. World economic powers #4 & #5 operate a different type of 4-engined aircraft for VVIP operations.


User currently offlineEK413 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 4680 posts, RR: 4
Reply 25, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 11017 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 23):
They were pretty fast to bring their new product and go double daily at LAX using the 77W.

They have been quick to bring the new product to SYD too... I'm surprised they don't rotate the aircraft in the morning with a tag on service opposed to sitting on the tarmac for 12+ hours...

EK413



Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
User currently offlinelegacyins From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2022 posts, RR: 0
Reply 26, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 10962 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 23):

I was quite disappointed myself as I used to fly them quite often from SFO-PEK on their 74M. They do codeshare with UA on their PEK flight, so maybe that has something to do with it. When they announced their IAH flight using their new 77W, it became clear that SFO is not at the top of their priority list. But, look at JFK, CA is only introducing their 77W on this route with an increase in frequencies.

On a side note, let's not forget CA already ordered 5 748s a couple of years ago to be delivered in 2014/15.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-0...747-8-planes-on-travel-growth.html



John@SFO
User currently offlineWROORD From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 915 posts, RR: 0
Reply 27, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 10384 times:

Quoting na (Reply 4):
Nice to hear about two more 748I orders

Agreed. I am surprised that there is no more 748I orders from CX, SQ, JL and HN. Let's hope.


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 29672 posts, RR: 84
Reply 28, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 10239 times:
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Quoting WROORD (Reply 27):
I am surprised that there is no more 748I orders from CX, SQ, JL and HN.

JL, NH and SQ have no need for a 747-sized aircraft, so none of them will be placing an order.

I still expect CX, if they go for a VLA, to go for the A380-800.


User currently offlinejustinlee From China, joined Aug 2012, 331 posts, RR: 0
Reply 29, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 9381 times:

Quoting carpethead (Reply 24):
Since CA is returning the remaining 744s, which one usually operated for VIP missions, it is certainly feasible the two additional 748s will be for VVIP operations.

Considering the current cost-saving campaign in the CPC, I really suspect this VVIP configuration. For example, they have cancelled the charter flights for the chinese version of congrassman . But definitely these 748 will be used for VVIP charter missions.


User currently offlineNewark727 From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 1311 posts, RR: 0
Reply 30, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 8455 times:

Quoting Devilfish (Reply 6):
Would be nicer if one or both come in VVIP configuration.

It wouldn't surprise me if one or two eventually got used for head of state type flights, several countries including China have used their airlines' 747s for occasional official visits.

Quoting bikerthai (Reply 16):
With global climate change and increase chance of wild fire, there may be a market to 747 tankers.

I thought the jury was still out as to whether the widebody tanker concept was worth the sizable operating costs, but I haven't heard much about it in a while.


User currently offlineSCAT15F From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 402 posts, RR: 0
Reply 31, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 8274 times:

Quoting justinlee (Reply 29):
Considering the current cost-saving campaign in the CPC, I really suspect this VVIP configuration. For example, they have cancelled the charter flights for the chinese version of congrassman . But definitely these 748 will be used for VVIP charter missions.

But CA already has 5 748i on order, so this makes it 7. So why would these two be used for something different than the other 5?

Also, nobody ever mentions the 748i in relation to CAL (or China Airlines) anymore... just because they are introducing the 77W doesn't mean they won't go for the 748i ...unless they have officially ruled it out


User currently offlineSCAT15F From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 402 posts, RR: 0
Reply 32, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 8228 times:

Also, what gives with the 15 aircraft 748i commitment announced in 2011 (believed to be HK or another Chinese airline?)

Still waiting on government approval?


User currently offlinejustinlee From China, joined Aug 2012, 331 posts, RR: 0
Reply 33, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 8188 times:

Quoting SCAT15F (Reply 31):
But CA already has 5 748i on order, so this makes it 7. So why would these two be used for something different than the other 5?

I mean all these 748 will operate VIP missions. For example, nowadays, these VIP missions are operated by different planes in the 744 fleet of Air China.


User currently offlineNewark727 From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 1311 posts, RR: 0
Reply 34, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 7911 times:

Quoting SCAT15F (Reply 32):
Also, what gives with the 15 aircraft 748i commitment announced in 2011 (believed to be HK or another Chinese airline?)

I'm wondering this as well. But if it was Hainan Group/Hong Kong Airlines, they had a bit of a change of heart about the A380 so I wouldn't be surprised if they're also having second thoughts about the B748.


User currently offlinesweair From Sweden, joined Nov 2011, 1804 posts, RR: 0
Reply 35, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 7775 times:

I was viewing 748 vs 744 film clips, there is a big difference in noise between them in the cabin, those genx suckers are quite good in this way. A very comfortable plane to ride in for sure, I would say it beats a 77W any day from a passenger perspective.

User currently offlinedc1030cf From United States of America, joined Sep 2012, 61 posts, RR: 0
Reply 36, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 7772 times:
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Quoting SCAT15F (Reply 31):
Also, nobody ever mentions the 748i in relation to CAL (or China Airlines) anymore... just because they are introducing the 77W doesn't mean they won't go for the 748i ...unless they have officially ruled it out

Don't hold your breath. It won't happen for a V-E-R-Y L-O-N-G time. CI and Taiwan in general, both have too much internal politics for any decision to be made in a "Reasonable" period of time. See how long it took for they "Finally" ordered the 77W after most of the regional competitions already flying it. (BR, CA, CX, JL, KE, NH, PR, SQ, TG) China Airlines is a hopeless case 


User currently offlineTrijetsRMissed From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 2230 posts, RR: 7
Reply 37, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 7655 times:

Glad to see the 748I break through with another airline! It's been a long time coming. A two aircraft order means most likely that CA will use them for close evaluation, before placing an order to build the fleet to scale. If they pass, another 5-10 could be ordered. If they fail, they'll just convert them to 748Fs. A win/win I hope more airlines look at.

Quoting justinlee (Thread starter):
Air China will sell back its 7x744 to Boeing.

Off the topic, but are these the used 744s Boeing has discussed with DL? It is rumored that DL and Boeing are trading quotes for additional late-build 744s. Built between 1997-2000, these would seem to fit the bill.   



There's nothing quite like a tri-jet.
User currently offlineflightsimer From United States of America, joined Aug 2009, 512 posts, RR: 1
Reply 38, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 7623 times:

Quoting TrijetsRMissed (Reply 37):

Hate to burst your bubble, but this a top up order for 747-8I's, not a new airline. Air China finalized their 2011 announcement for 5 last year some time; so this announcement will bring their total to 7.

The 747-400s being sold are all converted 747-400BCF's (freighters) so Delta won't be buying them.



Commercial Pilot- SEL, MEL, Instrument
User currently offlineTrijetsRMissed From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 2230 posts, RR: 7
Reply 39, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 7546 times:

Quoting flightsimer (Reply 38):

If I'm a 748I fan, so how would 7 total orders vs 2 be "bursting my bubble"??   IIRC, the 5 previous were not official or were pending government review/approval, so to me this is "new". If that has changed, then that's good news...no? At this point, the 748I needs frames...

I thought the 744s were pax frames, my mistake.



There's nothing quite like a tri-jet.
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 8722 posts, RR: 29
Reply 40, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 6192 times:

Air China firmed the order for 5 748i aircraft last September.

http://seattletimes.com/html/busines...ology/2019144898_boeing747xml.html



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlinena From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10358 posts, RR: 11
Reply 41, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 5803 times:

Quoting sweair (Reply 35):
I was viewing 748 vs 744 film clips, there is a big difference in noise between them in the cabin, those genx suckers are quite good in this way. A very comfortable plane to ride in for sure, I would say it beats a 77W any day from a passenger perspective.

Absolutely, after flying with the new 747 there is no doubt left - the 748I is clearly superior to the 77W from a passenger perspective. On the upper I didnt even hear the engines at all. Airlines going 77W instead of 748 are without a doubt not really caring for their (high-yield) pax in the first place, no matter what they say. Time to tell it to the world before its to late!


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 29672 posts, RR: 84
Reply 42, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 4340 times:
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Quoting SCAT15F (Reply 32):
Also, what gives with the 15 aircraft 748i commitment announced in 2011 (believed to be HK or another Chinese airline?)

Still waiting on government approval?

The Hong Kong Civil Aviation Department recently lifted the growth restrictions they put into place last year, so Hong Kong Airlines is now allowed to add new aircraft (at the moment, they seem to be focusing on narrowbody expansion to mainland China).


User currently onlinePolot From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 2042 posts, RR: 1
Reply 43, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 4205 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 42):
The Hong Kong Civil Aviation Department recently lifted the growth restrictions they put into place last year, so Hong Kong Airlines is now allowed to add new aircraft (at the moment, they seem to be focusing on narrowbody expansion to mainland China).

As later mentioned though HNA has backpedaled some at the end of last year and admitted that they may cancel them due to the weak market. While they haven't done so, and I doubt that they will cancel the A380s, if they are having some doubts about their current 10 A380s on order I don't see them adding an additional 15 748s anytime soon.

I think the complete failure of their LGW flight and the restrictions that they were placed under have made them realize that you have to walk some before you start running- hence the current focus on narrowbody expansion.


User currently offlineWROORD From United States of America, joined Mar 2009, 915 posts, RR: 0
Reply 44, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 3743 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 28):
JL, NH and SQ have no need for a 747-sized aircraft, so none of them will be placing an order.

What makes you so sure? JL and SQ up to recently had 747-400 in their fleet. 748I could be a nice complement to SQ A380. JL is picking up business and eventually may need a bigger plane and finally NH still has 5 747s used primarily in their high volume domestic markets.


User currently offlineNewark727 From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 1311 posts, RR: 0
Reply 45, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 3657 times:

Quoting WROORD (Reply 44):
finally NH still has 5 747s used primarily in their high volume domestic markets.

While I wouldn't suggest that this disproves your point about JL or SQ, NH's domestic 747s are being retired right now, and I doubt that the sort of flying that they are used for lends itself to another 747 replacement now that the 777 and 787 are available.


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 29672 posts, RR: 84
Reply 46, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 3623 times:
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Quoting Stitch (Reply 28):
JL, NH and SQ have no need for a 747-sized aircraft, so none of them will be placing an order.
Quoting WROORD (Reply 44):
What makes you so sure? JL and SQ up to recently had 747-400 in their fleet. 748I could be a nice complement to SQ A380. JL is picking up business and eventually may need a bigger plane and finally NH still has 5 747s used primarily in their high volume domestic markets.
SQ has no use for a 747-8. The 777-300ER has 70% of the passenger capacity of their A380-800 (278 seats to 409) and when it proves to be too small, SQ has upgraded directly to the A380-800 and been successful. So there is no reason to add another large widebody to try and slot between them.

JL is following NH's lead and significantly down-sizing their capacity to tailor it directly to profitable demand so the 777-300ER is as large a platform they need.

And NH is phasing out their 747-400Ds as the 777-300(ER) can carry almost as many passengers at significantly greater efficiency.

[Edited 2013-03-02 09:20:39]

User currently offlinena From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10358 posts, RR: 11
Reply 47, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 3553 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 46):
SQ has no use for a 747-8. The 777-300ER has 70% of the passenger capacity of their A380-800 (278 seats to 409) and when it proves to be to small, SQ has upgraded directly to the A380-800.

Well, thats a much bigger step than between their A330/772s and the 77W. I wouldnt rule out the 748I in the longer term although I admit the chances are low at SQ.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 46):
JL is following NH's lead and significantly down-sizing their capacity to tailor it directly to profitable demand so the 777-300ER is as large a platform they need.
And NH is phasing out their 747-400Ds as the 777-300(ER) can carry almost as many passengers at significantly greater efficiency.

It remains to be seen how many passengers of JAL and ANA do experience and value the greater comfort available on the A380 and 748I of the competition. Many Japanese are very patriotic.
As for the 744D replacement the 773/77Ws surely are enough, and the T7s have the dubious advantage (for the management that is, certainly not for the passenger) to cramp 10 people into a row in Eco, which in Japan maybe isnt that bad as it would be in the Western World with its taller people.


User currently offlineCargolex From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 1251 posts, RR: 8
Reply 48, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 3498 times:

Quoting WROORD (Reply 44):

What makes you so sure? JL and SQ up to recently had 747-400 in their fleet. 748I could be a nice complement to SQ A380. JL is picking up business and eventually may need a bigger plane and finally NH still has 5 747s used primarily in their high volume domestic markets.

You know, you can't say "absolutely never" about many things, but if any of these three order the 747-8i, it won't be any time soon (not within the next 3-5 years, if ever). With the exception of the immediate medium-widebody problem, which isn't the fault of the fleet planners or JL, JL's fleet strategy seems fairly solid.

It's possible that increased business could demand larger planes for NH or JL, but it isn't likely in the near term.

For SQ, it's even more unlikely as they have made a commitment to the A380, and there really isn't much need for them to have two VLA types. In two or three years, I wouldn't be so surprised to see them take a look at the 747-8F, but I don't think the i is going to be on their menu unless something drastic and unforeseen happens.

Quoting SCAT15F (Reply 31):
Also, nobody ever mentions the 748i in relation to CAL (or China Airlines) anymore..

Most of their 744 pax planes, and certainly their 744Fs, have a lot of life left in them, and those that don't are likely to be supplanted by the 77W. In time, I think they will take a closer look at the 747-8 program as a whole, but for now, they don't seem to be in any hurry to make any decision, and that's just as well for them, because Taiwan's situation in terms of passenger traffic and cargo trade isn't the same as it was when the 744s were being ordered.


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 29672 posts, RR: 84
Reply 49, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3377 times:
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Quoting na (Reply 47):
I wouldnt rule out the 748I in the longer term although I admit the chances are low at SQ.

When he was CEO of SQ, Chew Choon Seng publicly stated he had no interest in adding the 747-8 to the fleet because, and I quote, "that aircraft is based fundamentally on an airframe that is already 37 years old".

Now it is true he is no longer CEO and his successor might feel different, but I expect not.



Quoting na (Reply 47):
It remains to be seen how many passengers of JAL and ANA do experience and value the greater comfort available on the A380 and 748I of the competition.

You can put in the 777-300ER the same premium cabin hard product as you can the A380-800 and 747-8. Yes, the A380-800 is quieter overall (and so will be the 747-8 in First Class if you install additional sound insulation like LH did), but ambient noise is likely one of the lowest criteria customers choose from based on how the 777 did against the A340 and 747-400.


User currently offlinebmacleod From Canada, joined Aug 2001, 2195 posts, RR: 0
Reply 50, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3362 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 3):
Quoting warren747sp (Reply 1):
Wow, more 748 passenger jet! now if CX will just follow.

All seven 777Fs were originally ordered by CX, who cancelled their 8-frame today (while adding five options) and took over three 747-8Fs that CA intended to order from Boeing.

Hopefully this news means CX is leaning toward the 748I; then again, BA ordered the 748F but picked the A380 over the 748I.



The engine is the heart of an airplane, but the pilot is its soul.
User currently offlineCargolex From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 1251 posts, RR: 8
Reply 51, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3257 times:

Quoting bmacleod (Reply 50):
BA ordered the 748F

BA has never placed an order for any 747-8Fs. Their livery is on aircraft that are owned by another company and operated for BA, but they are not BA planes.


User currently offlineNewark727 From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 1311 posts, RR: 0
Reply 52, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3244 times:

Quoting bmacleod (Reply 50):

Hopefully this news means CX is leaning toward the 748I; then again, BA ordered the 748F but picked the A380 over the 748I.

It's not quite the same situation as BA, since the World Cargo freighters are owned by Atlas Air and there's only three of them anyway, compared to BA's significant long-haul widebody passenger fleet.

edit: Foiled by Cargolex!  banghead 

[Edited 2013-03-02 11:29:52]

User currently offlineSCAT15F From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 402 posts, RR: 0
Reply 53, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2963 times:

Well, it seems that CX really is the best shot the 748i has (in the near-term anyway). As the up to spec versions start flying passengers in 2014, we might see more orders from hesitant airlines.

I still think there is a very small possibility that the 787 delay may, in a roundabout sort of way, have a positive effect on 748i sales; it has many of the dreamliner technologies but is proven and reliable in a way the 787 is not...   


User currently offlineneutrino From Singapore, joined May 2012, 588 posts, RR: 0
Reply 54, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 2478 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 49):
When he was CEO of SQ, Chew Choon Seng publicly stated he had no interest in adding the 747-8 to the fleet because, and I quote, "that aircraft is based fundamentally on an airframe that is already 37 years old".


Some of us (yours truly included) really despised that nincompoop for calling the Queen of the Skies "yesterday's plane". Its akin to calling trail blazers worthless. He was either ignorant or conveniently forgot that it was the Jumbo that was instrumental in making SIA the huge success it have become.
Talk about disrespecting one's elders. He surely took the cake. If he was half-decent, the worst he could have said would be something to the effect that the airline's good old 747 days were over and they are moving on. He didn't have to pile insult on something that had virtually single handedly served his company amazingly well but had naturally grown a little long in the tooth. When his term at SQ ended, it was like "good riddance" to us 747 admirers. May he be roasted by the GEnx-2B's exhausts.



Potestatem obscuri lateris nescitis
User currently offlinena From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10358 posts, RR: 11
Reply 55, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 2080 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 49):
You can put in the 777-300ER the same premium cabin hard product as you can the A380-800 and 747-8. Yes, the A380-800 is quieter overall (and so will be the 747-8 in First Class if you install additional sound insulation like LH did), but ambient noise is likely one of the lowest criteria customers choose from based on how the 777 did against the A340 and 747-400.

That the 748I and A380 are superior to the 777 is an architectural issue, I´m not talking about the seats. The 747 offers unique, more intimate and more pleasing compartments not to be found on any other plane (the nose and the small upper deck), while the A380 offers grander surroundings than the plain, totally unspectacular and generic T7 tube.


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