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Paris Airshow 2013 : A350 Or Not?  
User currently offlineeuroflyer From France, joined Jun 2012, 38 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 17987 times:

According to several business newspapers in France, chances for the A350XWB to be displayed at the upcoming Paris Airshow 2013 are tiny.
Mainly due to delays from Spirit, the US supplier for central fuselage sections, the first ongoing A350 could miss the boat for the international show mid-june 2013.

About the probability for MSN001 not to be displayed, Airbus CEO Fabrice Brégier says "It's a possibility but not a probability,". "However, I agree that the first flight will not take place in Toulouse during the show," he added jokingly.

Do you think that Airbus could afford to miss the Paris Airshow 2013 in the current situation, and to postpone a display in Paris to june 2015, months after expected first deliveries ?


Born to fly !
34 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 13114 posts, RR: 35
Reply 1, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 17943 times:

Airbus never made the promise to fly during the air show so I don't see the problem. I think France newspapers are looking for smoke where there is none.

Quote:
Mainly due to delays from Spirit, the US supplier for central fuselage sections, the first ongoing A350 could miss the boat for the international show mid-june 2013.

Those newspapers are mixing things up:

- Parts for MSN001 except the wings were always on time
- MSN003 is the one being late (2 months behind schedule)
- The delays were not caused by Spirit but due "late breaking changes"

Quoting euroflyer (Thread starter):
Do you think that Airbus could afford to miss the Paris Airshow 2013 in the current situation

Sure, why not? Airbus should not haste things but make sure they have everything correct for the first flight.



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlinescbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12885 posts, RR: 46
Reply 2, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 17846 times:
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Quoting euroflyer (Thread starter):
Do you think that Airbus could afford to miss the Paris Airshow 2013 in the current situation

What "current situation"? Whether or not the A350 flies at Paris this year will make no difference to the program whatsoever.   



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana! #44cHAMpion
User currently offlineoldeuropean From Germany, joined May 2005, 2091 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 17805 times:

Quoting scbriml (Reply 2):
What "current situation"? Whether or not the A350 flies at Paris this year will make no difference to the program whatsoever.

As long they don't present an empty potemkin plastic tube à la August 7, 2007 with fasteners from the next nearby DIY market, it really doesn't matter.  

[Edited 2013-03-03 03:31:32]


Wer nichts weiss muss alles glauben
User currently offlineafriwing From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2008, 62 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 17787 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 1):
- Parts for MSN001 except the wings were always on time
- MSN003 is the one being late (2 months behind schedule)
- The delays were not caused by Spirit but due "late breaking changes"

        

Quoting euroflyer (Thread starter):
Do you think that Airbus could afford to miss the Paris Airshow 2013 in the current situation

What Airbus could not (and should not) afford is to have more delays due to technical issues or an immature aircraft. And this is what they are focussing on, not the Air Show.

I think it's clear that the Air Show is the un-announced "nice to have" target, they are working hard to get it flying before June. But they're working harder on getting a mature aircraft out of Toulouse first.



afriwing
User currently offline76er From Netherlands, joined Mar 2007, 573 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 17731 times:

Quoting oldeuropean (Reply 3):
August 7, 2007

I suppose you meant July 8th, 2007?
 


User currently offlineoldeuropean From Germany, joined May 2005, 2091 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 17619 times:

Quoting 76er (Reply 5):
I suppose you meant July 8th, 2007?

Oh, yes – you're right!  

[Edited 2013-03-03 03:50:21]


Wer nichts weiss muss alles glauben
User currently offlineChipmunk2307 From Australia, joined Feb 2013, 11 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 17583 times:

Quoting euroflyer (Thread starter):
Do you think that Airbus could afford to miss the Paris Airshow 2013 in the current situation, and to postpone a display in Paris to june 2015, months after expected first deliveries ?

I think Airbus has learned a few valuable lessons over the years from themselves and the "other guys" across the Atlantic: stick to under promise and over deliver. The issues with the initial A380 production and the delays in the 787 program have suggested making a promise/assurance that can't be kept ends up backfiring badly.

Better to say "It's a possibility but not a probability" and not showing then saying it will happen and be left there with a 1:16 scale model and an over eager sales team getting lock jaw from smiling/grinning 24 hours a day.   


User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 13114 posts, RR: 35
Reply 8, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 17566 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 1):
Airbus never made the promise to fly during the air show so I don't see the problem.

However, Mr. Young of Rolls Royce made the following statement:

Quote:
"The engines are ready and capable to go to their limits from day one, should Airbus choose to do so," says Young. "The program - which we're fully supporting with our initial flight-compliant engines - has a very clear aim to make sure that first flight is prior to the Paris air show."

It is possible that Airbus is internally aiming for a first flight before the air show, but they are not promising anything to the outside world.



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offliner2rho From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2775 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 17152 times:

My opinion:

- flying display: no way
- static display: hell no
- fly-by: hell yes

Following how the A350 is coming together in the production threads, I think first flight before Le Bourget is possible and realistic. Not much earlier, but maybe let's say late may or early june. If so, Airbus would definitely take the oportunity to make a fly-by at the show during one or two days, as the PR effect would be huge. The A350 would immediately afterwards return to TLS and not stay at the show, in order to not disrupt the flight test program. A flying display would not be possible as the flight envelope will not be suficiently opened by then.

Of course Airbus have never made any promise to that regard and should not - better to finish a mature aircraft a month after Le Bourget than force a Potemkin first flight for the show. But it's a big incentive and a great target to work towards for employees, and IMO Airbus will make use of the opportunity if the aircraft is ready by then.


User currently offlineflood From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 1383 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 17012 times:

Quoting r2rho (Reply 9):
If so, Airbus would definitely take the oportunity to make a fly-by at the show during one or two days, as the PR effect would be huge.

Particularly if the 787 were still grounded at the time. A little hard to imagine on the one hand, yet we're already 1.5 months into the grounding and Le Bourget is only 3.5 months away. Let's hope it doesn't come to that and both aircraft can attend in one form or another... even just a fly-by would be fantastic.


User currently offlineEPA001 From Netherlands, joined Sep 2006, 4956 posts, RR: 40
Reply 11, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 16881 times:
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Quoting r2rho (Reply 9):
My opinion:

- flying display: no way
- static display: hell no
- fly-by: hell yes

That sounds plausible to me. Would be nice to see the A350-XWB flying at the Paris Air Show, but keeping the program on track is much more important.  


User currently offlineeuroflyer From France, joined Jun 2012, 38 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 15302 times:

Quoting EPA001 (Reply 11):
Quoting EPA001 (Reply 11):
That sounds plausible to me. Would be nice to see the A350-XWB flying at the Paris Air Show, but keeping the program on track is much more important.

Of course it's clearly the priority but I can assure you that sales and marketing are often very pushy towards production and engineering. I myself am a program lead-buyer in one of EADS company (not Airbus) and I can regularly see sales and marketing executives putting pressure on production in order to have products "ready" for international shows.
So, even if a display may not be considered, I think Airbus will make the possible to at least do a fly-by, yes.



Born to fly !
User currently offlineBlueSky1976 From Poland, joined Jul 2004, 1911 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 15159 times:

Quoting r2rho (Reply 9):
My opinion:

- flying display: no way
- static display: hell no
- fly-by: hell yes

My take: static display during first two or three "industry only" trade days. No fly by, no flying or static display thereafter.



Now get your f***ing Jumbo Jet off my airport!!! - AC/DC "Ain't No Fun To Be a Millionaire"
User currently offlinestarbucks From Netherlands, joined Feb 2013, 779 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 14149 times:

Quoting BlueSky1976 (Reply 13):
My take: static display during first two or three "industry only" trade days. No fly by, no flying or static display thereafter.

And stop the entire flighttest program??? (I expect that only MSN001 is flying by PAS2013)
No way!

I'm going with r2rho on this one, fly-by as an "unexpected visitor"



A350 logbook: http://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AlVgPnmHLOovdFdzbVlyQzhYNDhCb1VFN1RkYXkwV3c&output=html
User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6933 posts, RR: 12
Reply 15, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 13301 times:

It would definitely be an incentive for me to go (not that I can buy planes), and like last time fake a professional reason to go during the industry days 


New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlinemoo From Falkland Islands, joined May 2007, 4089 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 13050 times:

The A380 not only appeared at the 2005 Paris Airshow, it flew demo displays every trade day.

And that was less than 60 days after it first flew.

So it all depends on when then A350XWB flies - there's nothing stopping it making a headline appearance at the Airshow if it flies soon enough.


User currently offlineCaptainKramer From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2012, 226 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 12888 times:

How about flying the nose section of the A350XWB inside a Beluga, kill two birds with one stone, by having one and a half planes on display!

User currently offlinejayunited From United States of America, joined Jan 2013, 1039 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 12041 times:

If the A350 makes the Paris Airshow then that should be seen as a plus but it should not be seen as a priority. The priority for Airbus has got to be that they get it right the first time especially after seeing the mess Boeing is in with their 787 program.

User currently offlinebrilondon From Canada, joined Aug 2005, 4416 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 11850 times:

Quoting euroflyer (Thread starter):
Do you think that Airbus could afford to miss the Paris Airshow 2013 in the current situation, and to postpone a display in Paris to june 2015, months after expected first deliveries ?

They (Airbus) does not need to have it at the airshow in order to sell it. It would be nice to see it fly then or even see it built for the airshow but the aircraft will sell whether it is there or not.



Rush for ever; Yankees all the way!!
User currently offlineBlueShamu330s From UK - England, joined Sep 2001, 3062 posts, RR: 23
Reply 20, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 11749 times:

Quoting jayunited (Reply 18):

If the A350 makes the Paris Airshow then that should be seen as a plus but it should not be seen as a priority. The priority for Airbus has got to be that they get it right the first time especially after seeing the mess Boeing is in with their 787 program.


From the growing expectation on here, my fear is that it might be judged as some kind of failure on the part of Airbus if the A350 doesn't fly at Le Bourget when, in reality, it might be nice but was certainly not a goal of the program.

Having said that, the marketing and symbolism in having it fly whilst the Dreamliner remains grounded might prove to be an irrestible opportunity for Airbus to exploit.

Rgds



So I drive a 4x4. So what?! Tax the a$$ off me for it...oh, you already have... :-(
User currently offlineart From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 3398 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 10466 times:

Quoting euroflyer (Thread starter):
Do you think that Airbus could afford to miss the Paris Airshow 2013 in the current situation, and to postpone a display in Paris to june 2015, months after expected first deliveries ?

They could always display in Farnborough before(?) first deliveries.

Quoting 76er (Reply 5):
Quoting oldeuropean (Reply 3):
August 7, 2007

I suppose you meant July 8th, 2007?

I have always wondered why the US chose year/day/month format. Sorry if it has been asked before but what was the reason?


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25693 posts, RR: 85
Reply 22, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 10407 times:
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Quoting BlueShamu330s (Reply 20):
From the growing expectation on here, my fear is that it might be judged as some kind of failure on the part of Airbus if the A350 doesn't fly at Le Bourget when, in reality, it might be nice but was certainly not a goal of the program.

I've only heard any mention of the possibility of it here on a.net. I doubt it is a problem for the airlines.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlinegemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5821 posts, RR: 6
Reply 23, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 10184 times:

Quoting art (Reply 21):
Sorry if it has been asked before but what was the reason?

Not to get too far off topic, but I believe it comes from the way they say the date. I and most of the world would call today the 4th of March 2013. I have never heard an American say this, they would say today is March the 4th, 2013. So they write it the way they say it.

Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlinehivue From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 1114 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 9604 times:

Quoting art (Reply 21):

I have always wondered why the US chose year/day/month format.

We actually use month/day/year.

Quoting gemuser (Reply 23):
I have never heard an American say this, they would say today is March the 4th, 2013.

If I wrote today's date as 4 March, 2013 I would sound rather stuffy to most Americans (not to mention wrong on this side of the International Date Line   ).


25 lightsaber : True. But flight test should be cautious. Make sure it gets through a few stagegates. They could find a minor problem that grounds the plane pre-airs
26 infinit : Well it'd be good for them if the A350 was there even if they didn't intend it initially.. Taking advantage of the fact that Boeing 787 programme is i
27 Post contains images BlueShamu330s : Which is why I clearly said: [quote]From the growing expectation on here" I made no reference to airlines whatsoever. The comment was because, apart
28 madog : Going slightly off topic here, but speaking of Paris Air Show 2013, I've been trying to find a list of flying displays that will be appearing at the g
29 moo : Oh, I'm not saying they should push for the airshow to the detriment of the test regime, I was more pointing out that the A380 both appeared and flew
30 Post contains images lightsaber : So like others, I would like to see the talk 'mellowed out.' It could happen, but I consider the probability less than 50/50. That we may agree on. H
31 KarelXWB : Tom Enders says it won't happen: "#Airbus #A350 first flight will be July or Aug, EADS CEO Enders tells reporters in NYC. In time for Paris? Would tak
32 moo : What does QR CEO Al Baker say? He seems to claim more knowledge about Airbus internals than Airbus themselves, so what's his take on it?
33 KarelXWB : Mr Baker said nothing about the first flight.
34 moo : Give it time, give it time...
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