futureualpilot From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2561 posts, RR: 8 Reply 1, posted (2 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 6361 times:
Never mind Spirit and AirTran.....
Their page on facebook is going nuts over an A319 coming in there.
MainRunway From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 167 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (2 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 6339 times:
I should have said first mainline service from a legacy carrier. Spirit and Airtran are considered low-cost carriers by most.
mesaflyguy From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 724 posts, RR: 1 Reply 4, posted (2 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 6209 times:
Good for them. And for a little airport like that, let them have such a reaction. :p And look how much they advertised NK's MYR flights on there too! But seriously, those are some excellent shots they have on the fb page of the NK and DL aircraft. The snow makes for such an amazing shot.
avi8tir From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 396 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (2 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 5348 times:
Trust me, in CRW, something like this will make the front page of the paper and the top story of the evening news... probably for the entire first week of it being in service!
Kcrwflyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3629 posts, RR: 7 Reply 6, posted (2 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 5223 times:
Their page on facebook is going nuts over an A319 coming in there.
AirTran is gone and Spirit flies twice a week to MYR. This is the first time CRW has had daily mainline service since 9/11, and the first mainline on a legacy carrier since 9/11. It's also the return of first class service to the market ( nobody start a conversation about how nobody pays for it, not interested ) So ... It's a BIG deal. I live here and I'm pretty damn excited myself.
Airports SHOULD get excited about new service and market the hell out of it if they want to keep it. I'm sure that if any other carriers add any service, you'll see more of what you call "going nuts".
And isn't DL mostly mainline nowadays at GSP? Impressive how DL is able to run the amount of metal they do to smaller cities like that. Take CHS, for instance, is 11 daily ATL flights that are ALL mainline!!!!
jpetekyxmd80 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 4244 posts, RR: 29 Reply 11, posted (2 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 4459 times:
Quoting MainRunway (Reply 2): I should have said first mainline service from a legacy carrier. Spirit and Airtran are considered low-cost carriers by most.
Whats the difference? Only difference I can see is AirTran gives me a bag of pretzels and United gives me nothing.
CXA330300 From South Africa, joined May 2004, 1500 posts, RR: 1 Reply 12, posted (2 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 4252 times:
Quoting davescj (Reply 10): There is a great deal to be said for being the 1000 gorilla at an airport. So long as DL has good connections, they could make it a profitable route.
True, although IIRC US was quite strong there for a time. CHS does have a lot of port-related/military/tourist traffic though.
The sky is the limit as long as you can stay there
twincessna340a From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 22 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (2 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 4111 times:
Quoting CXA330300 (Reply 9): Charleston is a surprisingly large market, and ATL's a great place to connect from there. DL's got a winning combo there.
Quoting CXA330300 (Reply 12): CHS does have a lot of port-related/military/tourist traffic though.
Same story at SAV. They were mostly 757s too, but that was before 2008.
AVLAirlineFreq From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 787 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (2 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 4110 times:
Quoting CXA330300 (Reply 12): True, although IIRC US was quite strong there for a time. CHS does have a lot of port-related/military/tourist traffic though.
Different Charleston--that would be Charleston, SC.
mesaflyguy From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 724 posts, RR: 1 Reply 15, posted (2 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 4013 times:
AVLAirlineFreq From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 787 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (2 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 3983 times:
JBAirwaysFan From United States of America, joined exactly 4 years ago today! , 784 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (2 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3333 times:
Only the continuation of Delta's latest trend of restoring mainline service to cities that lost it or introducing it to cities that never had it since the start of service.
For CRW this seems to be a big deal. They should celebrate the added capacity. It makes the airport look that much more attractive to carriers looking to expand or start service in general.
In Loving Memory of Casey Edward Falconer; May 16, 1992-May 9, 2012
Goldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 5445 posts, RR: 12 Reply 18, posted (2 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3285 times:
Quoting JBAirwaysFan (Reply 17): For CRW this seems to be a big deal. They should celebrate the added capacity. It makes the airport look that much more attractive to carriers looking to expand or start service in general.
Throwing a big airplane at a market doesn't mean that the market can sustain it---even at 1x daily.
Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
JBAirwaysFan From United States of America, joined exactly 4 years ago today! , 784 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (2 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 3144 times:
Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 18): Throwing a big airplane at a market doesn't mean that the market can sustain it---even at 1x daily.
Well then I guess we'll have to see. The flight is RON last flight in/first flight out. I think it has potential due to that. Potential for the higher loads exists IMO since they have a wide open schedule of connections in ATL for the day. Plus on the inbound to CRW there are more connections to feed the flight since it's the last flight of the evening.
In Loving Memory of Casey Edward Falconer; May 16, 1992-May 9, 2012
AVLAirlineFreq From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 787 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (2 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 2624 times:
Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 18): Throwing a big airplane at a market doesn't mean that the market can sustain it---even at 1x daily.
Unless it's replacing two 50-seat RJs, which may be the case.
commavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 10193 posts, RR: 62 Reply 21, posted (2 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 2579 times:
This is going to become more and more common - not just with Delta, but with AA and United, too.
Given the cost of fuel and the deteriorating economics of small jets, plenty of cities are going to see the return, restoration or expansion of at least some mainline service.
Plenty of cities are also likely to see the return, restoration or expansion of at least some turboprop service, as well. And, there are going to continue to be small markets that are inevitably going to lose all commercial air service altogether.
PSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 6874 posts, RR: 29 Reply 22, posted (2 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2392 times:
Quoting AVLAirlineFreq (Reply 20): Unless it's replacing two 50-seat RJs, which may be the case.
In CRW, this is exactly what happened.
DL went from 5x CRJ to 3x CRJ + 1x A319
They collapsed the 6am CRJ & 7am CRJ to ATL into a single 7am A319 departure
In the evening, they combined the 6pm CRJ & 8pm CRJ into a single 7pm A319 departure.
TW870 From United States of America, joined Jan 2013, 37 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (2 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2319 times:
Quoting JBAirwaysFan (Reply 19): The flight is RON last flight in/first flight out.
Anyone know how Delta crews these trips? I flew for United (as a FA), and we rarely worked last flight in first flight out trips - both because of contractual minimum layover requirements and because United rarely left ORD or DEN RONs on the ground for more than about 6 hours. This one sounds like it might be a bit longer on the ground and allow Delta to squeeze in a minimum layover. But I see them do last-in-first out at a lot of their stations. Do they do "stand ups" where the late night trips are one duty day, or is the layover long enough to separate the duty day?
mattya9 From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 107 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (2 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2270 times:
I know Delta also added 319 service to BMI yesterday as the RON aircraft to ATL as well. Is this something Delta is shifting towards with a lot of the smaller regional airports around the midwest and east/southeast? I'm also assuming service to these smaller airports will be seasonal, and come the fall they'll be back to CRJs.
Cubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 21244 posts, RR: 19 Reply 25, posted (2 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2366 times:
Quoting TW870 (Reply 23): This one sounds like it might be a bit longer on the ground and allow Delta to squeeze in a minimum layover.
Sounds like 10 1/2 or 11 hours of ground time, and keep in mind that it's no more than a 10 minute drive from the airport to just about any of the decent hotels in Charleston.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
Kcrwflyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3629 posts, RR: 7 Reply 26, posted (2 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2285 times:
Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 25): Sounds like 10 1/2 or 11 hours of ground time, and keep in mind that it's no more than a 10 minute drive from the airport to just about any of the decent hotels in Charleston.
Current arrival is 8:30p with a 7am departure. And yes, downtown is 10 minutes in a traffic jam.
Quoting mattya9 (Reply 24): I'm also assuming service to these smaller airports will be seasonal, and come the fall they'll be back to CRJs.
They left the mainline flights at AVL and TRI.. ROA went to CR7/9 during some slower periods but has the 319 again. I suppose you keep it if it sells.
mesaflyguy From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 724 posts, RR: 1 Reply 27, posted (2 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 2074 times:
Same witth MYR. In the summer. ATL-MYR is 4x CRJ and 2x MD88, one on the RON and one arriving around 11am and leaving at noon. In the fall, we usually see. 5x CRJ and a CR9 on the RON, but so far this season it has rotated between a CR9 and an MD88 on the RON. When I am in SC for the summer with my father, the 6am Mad-Dawg departure is my alarm clock!
Goldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 5445 posts, RR: 12 Reply 28, posted (2 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 1981 times:
Quoting AVLAirlineFreq (Reply 20): Unless it's replacing two 50-seat RJs, which may be the case.
Which doesn't mean much, either. You can replace 10 turboprops with 2 737s, but that doesn't mean that anyone's going to want to deal with such a reduced schedule to fill them up.
The case here of the A319 RON as a "catch all stragglers" flight might justify having mainline, but the same might not work in reverse. There have been times when I've traveled, that the outstation in the morning has, say, a 757 sitting there, and only 10 people board it.
Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
AVLAirlineFreq From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 787 posts, RR: 0 Reply 29, posted (2 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 1926 times:
Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 28): Which doesn't mean much, either. You can replace 10 turboprops with 2 737s, but that doesn't mean that anyone's going to want to deal with such a reduced schedule to fill them up.
But that's an extreme example that's a red herring. Taking the last two RJ flights of the day and the first two departures in the morning and combining them into a single mainline aircraft is not likely to cause anyone to switch carriers or change plans. And your example only takes into account the demand side of the equation and not the costs involved.
Cubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 21244 posts, RR: 19 Reply 30, posted (2 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 1916 times:
Quoting AVLAirlineFreq (Reply 29): Taking the last two RJ flights of the day and the first two departures in the morning and combining them into a single mainline aircraft is not likely to cause anyone to switch carriers or change plans. And your example only takes into account the demand side of the equation and not the costs involved.
Moreover, with regard to CRW specifically, anyone who is picking a carrier based on who has the most frequency period is probably already flying US rather than DL.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
Goldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 5445 posts, RR: 12 Reply 31, posted (2 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 1891 times:
Quoting AVLAirlineFreq (Reply 29): And your example only takes into account the demand side of the equation and not the costs involved.
There's too many variables there to accurately take into account all the direct and indirect costs involved with adding this larger aircraft. Think of all the ground equipment that has to be purchased/moved just to service this one flight; the additional rampers, and ticket agents. The flights need more flight attendants. The plane needs more fuel.
Look, I'm not saying that it's BAD to have an A319 on the route. All I'm saying is that the "If you build it, they will come" mantra doesn't always work.
Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
Cubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 21244 posts, RR: 19 Reply 32, posted (2 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 1889 times:
Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 31): Think of all the ground equipment that has to be purchased/moved just to service this one flight; the additional rampers, and ticket agents.
I bet the staffing level doesn't change a bit. DL staffs ticket counters and gates with a single agent all the time, and two rampers can service a 319 (especially since its not a turn so they have as much time as they need).
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
PSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 6874 posts, RR: 29 Reply 33, posted (2 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 1871 times:
DL is adding mainline back to RONs for the terminator flights out of ATL and launch flights back to ATL to add more capacity during peak times when people want to fly.
I'm sure DL found that there was significant spill on these flights that were often sold-out. Plus, this helps to clear-out misconnects throughout the day, adds a 2-class aircraft during peak times, and uses an aircraft that might have otherwise just sat in ATL for the night.
With the draw-down in 50-seaters, they have to start doing more of this.
Yes, there are costs involved, but also the potental for incremental revenue. It is quite possible that DL was missing out on additional revenue because they didn't offer enough capacity at peak times.
Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 31): Think of all the ground equipment that has to be purchased/moved just to service this one flight
Probably just a tow-bar, and its possible there might have already been one there. Or they could send of of the extra ones they've got lying around the hubs, or send it from a city that doesn't get Airbus service anymore.
Goldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 5445 posts, RR: 12 Reply 34, posted (2 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 1842 times:
Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 32):
I bet the staffing level doesn't change a bit. DL staffs ticket counters and gates with a single agent all the time, and two rampers can service a 319 (especially since its not a turn so they have as much time as they need).
It took 2 at HP. And that was just the guys in the bins. I've loaded and unloaded entire planes by myself with one other doing the running, and it was NOT fun. Not to mention, we were timed. Way back when I was working for a contractor, we got dinged if the bags weren't to belt by a particular time, and we also got dinged if it took forever to load the airplane. Sure, they could only do it with 2 rampers---if they want REALLY high turnover, and make no profit doing so.
Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
flyinryan99 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 1919 posts, RR: 11 Reply 35, posted (2 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 1818 times:
Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 33): Probably just a tow-bar, and its possible there might have already been one there. Or they could send of of the extra ones they've got lying around the hubs, or send it from a city that doesn't get Airbus service anymore.
And I'm sure the airports they are adding mainline back into are willing to bend over backwards to pick up some costs on getting these planes in there. I see it as a good thing because then it doesn't cost 6 hotel rooms, just 5 now with a mainline aircraft instead of 2 CRJs too. Lots of variables involved for sure.
JBAirwaysFan From United States of America, joined exactly 4 years ago today! , 784 posts, RR: 0 Reply 36, posted (2 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 1719 times:
Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 33): Plus, this helps to clear-out misconnects throughout the day,
I was thinking the same thing. More seats on the aircraft means more stand-bys can be cleared if they don't fill it from actual bookings.
In Loving Memory of Casey Edward Falconer; May 16, 1992-May 9, 2012
MainRunway From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 167 posts, RR: 0 Reply 37, posted (2 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 1444 times:
Think there is any chance that Delta begins mainline service from CRW-DTW ?
Kcrwflyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3629 posts, RR: 7 Reply 38, posted (2 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 1429 times:
Quoting MainRunway (Reply 37): Think there is any chance that Delta begins mainline service from CRW-DTW ?
MainRunway From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 167 posts, RR: 0 Reply 39, posted (2 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 1460 times:
JUST ANNOUNCED: CRW ADDS DFW SERVICE...
CHARLESTON, W.Va. -- Starting this June, Yeager Airport will offer nonstop daily service between Charleston and Dallas, airport officials announced today.
The flights to Dallas-Fort Worth International Airport will begin June 12, according to a news release from the airport.
Every day, a flight from Dallas will leave at 1:05 p.m. and arrive in Charleston at 4:30 p.m. The return flight will leave Yeager Airport at 5 p.m. and arrive in Dallas at 6:30 p.m.
The flights will be provided by American Eagle, a subsidiary of American Airlines.
"We are thrilled to have access to American's domestic hub and international gateway at Dallas Fort Worth International Airport. Not only will this flight link Dallas and West Virginia's state capital, but it will also link our region to the worldwide connections available through American Airlines and their partner airlines of the OneWorld alliance," Yeager Airport Director Rick Atkinson said in the news release.
Cubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 21244 posts, RR: 19 Reply 40, posted (2 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 1425 times:
Quoting MainRunway (Reply 39): Every day, a flight from Dallas will leave at 1:05 p.m. and arrive in Charleston at 4:30 p.m. The return flight will leave Yeager Airport at 5 p.m. and arrive in Dallas at 6:30 p.m.
Isn't this pretty similar to the timing of the UA IAH flight? IIRC, it's also a turn in the late afternoon/early evening.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
Kcrwflyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3629 posts, RR: 7 Reply 41, posted (2 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 1380 times:
Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 40): Isn't this pretty similar to the timing of the UA IAH flight? IIRC, it's also a turn in the late afternoon/early evening.
MainRunway From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 167 posts, RR: 0 Reply 42, posted (2 months 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 1160 times:
Kcrwflyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3629 posts, RR: 7 Reply 44, posted (2 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 1077 times:
Quoting MainRunway (Reply 42): looks like the DFW flights will be on a CRJ 200.
Any CRJ pilots out there want to look at the performance specs on that? If UA takes a penalty to IAH on an E45X then I don't imagine AA will have much better luck on a CR2.
mesaflyguy From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 724 posts, RR: 1 Reply 46, posted (2 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1037 times:
Quoting Kcrwflyer (Reply 44): If UA takes a penalty to IAH on an E45X then I don't imagine AA will have much better luck on a CR2.
I doubt UA takes a penalty on the route, as they also fly E45X'sfrom IAD to IAH without a penalty.
According to Great Circle Mapper, IAH-CRW is 975 miles as the crow flies, and the E45X's range is somewhere is the range of 14-1500nm. The flight shouldn't have the take a penalty and neither will the CRJ.
fun2fly From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 839 posts, RR: 1 Reply 47, posted (2 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1029 times:
Quoting davescj (Reply 10): Also, it is another CRJ we don't have to be on.
Not sure what you mean, they are always so clean and comfortable...
Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 32): I bet the staffing level doesn't change a bit. DL staffs ticket counters and gates with a single agent all the time, and two rampers can service a 319 (especially since its not a turn so they have as much time as they need).
from my experience on the 9PM DL arrival from ATL, the wait times for a 50 seater are terrible, I cannot imagine 100+ on a A319. I bet it's 30+ min.
I will enjoy the mainline however as those are my standard flights!
mesaflyguy From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 724 posts, RR: 1 Reply 48, posted (2 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 1002 times:
Quoting fun2fly (Reply 47): the wait times for a 50 seater are terrible, I cannot imagine 100+ on a A319. I bet it's 30+ min.
Sorry for my unknowledge, but what do you mean by wait times? You mean the wait to get off the plane once at the gate?
Sulley From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 501 posts, RR: 3 Reply 49, posted (2 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 997 times:
Quoting mesaflyguy (Reply 46): I doubt UA takes a penalty on the route, as they also fly E45X'sfrom IAD to IAH without a penalty.
It's not the plane; it's CRW.
UA often holds seats on the outbound CRW-IAH. IAH-CRW isn't a problem. I've had a few nail-biting moments when nonreving out of CRW due to weight restrictions.
Kcrwflyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3629 posts, RR: 7 Reply 50, posted (2 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 916 times:
Quoting Sulley (Reply 45): This is the biggest news in Charleston since shoes were first introduced to West Virginia a few years ago
What are shoes?
Quoting mesaflyguy (Reply 46): I doubt UA takes a penalty on the route, as they also fly E45X'sfrom IAD to IAH without a penalty.
The runway is 6,800ft and the airports about 1,000ft. elevation... oh and there's a hill at both ends of the runway.
Quoting fun2fly (Reply 47): from my experience on the 9PM DL arrival from ATL, the wait times for a 50 seater are terrible, I cannot imagine 100+ on a A319. I bet it's 30+ min.
PSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 6874 posts, RR: 29 Reply 52, posted (2 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 832 times:
At least on a mainline they won't have to first pull all the gate check/valet/pink tag bags, then bring them to the jetbridge or whatever they use in CRW for CRJs. With the A319 it all goes to baggage claim.
Cubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 21244 posts, RR: 19 Reply 55, posted (2 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 462 times:
Quoting MainRunway (Reply 54): CRW has always had a bad rep for how slowly your bags get to baggage claim.
It depends on the carrier. In my experience, DL and UA can both be slow, but it's not uncommon to see US bags on the belt by the time I pick up a gate checked bag and visit the men's room.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
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