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Control Towers Are Not Closing April 1st..maybe  
User currently offlineNBGSkyGod From United States of America, joined May 2004, 797 posts, RR: 1
Posted (1 year 5 months 5 hours ago) and read 4206 times:

In an epic "just kidding" moment the FAA said the official conference call to all of the 168 tower operators slated to close was not an authorized conference call. Wait what!?

"Two days after a Federal Aviation Administration official told contractors that steps were being taken to shut down 168 air traffic control towers on April 1, the agency gave the towers an unexpected reprieve Friday, saying the official's comments were "unauthorized.""

http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/01/politi...dex.html?hpt=po_c2#cnn-disqus-area

So now it is back to hurry up and wait as the FAA tries to figure out what they are going to do.   


"I use multi-billion dollar military satellite systems to find tupperware in the woods."
30 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinejfklganyc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3392 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (1 year 5 months 4 hours ago) and read 4028 times:

Overblown BS if I ever heard it.

Cutting a budget 2% is like finding change under your sofa cushion.

With government agencies like the FAA, there's lots of that change to find


User currently offlinejerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1958 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 5 months 4 hours ago) and read 4016 times:
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Hmm..CNN appears to be the only one reporting this with the exception of 2 local TV stations who are just carrying CNN's report. If this tower closings were to be true reports say that towers will be notified by "no later than Monday", which would be today. Hopefully we will find out what is going on by the end of today.


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User currently offlineNBGSkyGod From United States of America, joined May 2004, 797 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (1 year 5 months 4 hours ago) and read 3993 times:

Quoting jerseyguy (Reply 2):
Hmm..CNN appears to be the only one reporting this with the exception of 2 local TV stations who are just carrying CNN's report. If this tower closings were to be true reports say that towers will be notified by "no later than Monday", which would be today. Hopefully we will find out what is going on by the end of today

My guess is the list is not really the final list, and there is going to be some changes. As there are some facilities that cannot close, ones such as BAF which is home to the 101st FW providing the interceptors for New England.



"I use multi-billion dollar military satellite systems to find tupperware in the woods."
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7239 posts, RR: 17
Reply 4, posted (1 year 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3730 times:

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 1):
Overblown BS if I ever heard it.

Cutting a budget 2% is like finding change under your sofa cushion
Quoting NBGSkyGod (Thread starter):
So now it is back to hurry up and wait as the FAA tries to figure out what they are going to do.

This doesn't surprise me one bit. At the risk of getting this post deleted for political discussion, it is very relevant- our government has NO idea what it is doing right now when it comes to money. The FAA is basically along for the ride, but i strongly criticize them for not getting this planned out sooner.



One of the FB admins for PHX Spotters. "Zach the Expat!"
User currently offlineaklrno From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 923 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3495 times:

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 1):

Overblown BS if I ever heard it.

Cutting a budget 2% is like finding change under your sofa cushion.

The 2% isn't applied to the whole budget. It's 2 % of the whole budget applied to a much smaller subset, thus the smaller subset is cut much more than 2%. That's how you can see some departments cut more like 10%. And if its your contract that gets cut, it is 100%. Lots of Federal workers are getting a 20% pay cut right now.

I am not speaking for or against the cuts, just want to see a more informed debate.

For full disclosure my medicare subsidy (tiny as it is at my income) has not been touched, but my company's prospect for a government contract in the near future is not looking good.


User currently offlinecv880 From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 1124 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (1 year 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3413 times:

Quoting NBGSkyGod (Thread starter):
"Two days after a Federal Aviation Administration official told contractors that steps were being taken to shut down 168 air traffic control towers on April 1, the agency gave the towers an unexpected reprieve Friday, saying the official's comments were "unauthorized.""

The only towers that need to be shut down are those at DCA, IAD, BWI & ADW, then this "crisis"may suddenly dissipate.

[Edited 2013-03-04 13:53:29]

[Edited 2013-03-04 13:54:36]

User currently offlineikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21478 posts, RR: 60
Reply 7, posted (1 year 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3333 times:

Quoting aklrno (Reply 5):
The 2% isn't applied to the whole budget. It's 2 % of the whole budget applied to a much smaller subset, thus the smaller subset is cut much more than 2%. That's how you can see some departments cut more like 10%. And if its your contract that gets cut, it is 100%. Lots of Federal workers are getting a 20% pay cut right now.

But it's a full year 2%, of which only about 1% impacts this fiscal year, and there is no reason to cut VITAL services due to a 1% cut.

That's 1% from a budget that INCREASED this year by more than 1%. Granted, it's not a equally distributed cut, but it's still not the huge disaster it was made out to be by the liars in washington. It will be as painful as possible, but it need not be.

Now when is 2% a big deal? Medicare payments. If doctors are paid 98 cents on the dollar, doesn't sound that bad, but medicare payments are not increasing year over year at the level of cost of care, so it just makes it harder for a doctor to agree to take on a new medicare patient.

Anyway, the FAA will make sure to make any cuts they need it such a way that it maximizes the impact on the flying public, because those are their orders. After all, if the cuts are so transparent that the public can't see them, how will the voters be convinced to tax "the other guy" more to pay to fix it?



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineKC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12128 posts, RR: 51
Reply 8, posted (1 year 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3280 times:

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 1):
Overblown BS if I ever heard it.

Cutting a budget 2% is like finding change under your sofa cushion.
Quoting aklrno (Reply 5):
The 2% isn't applied to the whole budget. It's 2 % of the whole budget applied to a much smaller subset, thus the smaller subset is cut much more than 2%. That's how you can see some departments cut more like 10%.

In the big federal budget bucket, this is not even a drop, and it is far below the 2% some politicians have talked about. It comes out to be about a 0.32%

Only $87BILLION out of a $3.7TRILLION budget is actually getting "cut". Of that $87B, about $45B come from the DOD, and none from SS, Medicare, Vetrans, or any elected or appointed politicians.

Quoting aklrno (Reply 5):
Lots of Federal workers are getting a 20% pay cut right now.

Not true, no federal employee, nor military are getting any "pay cut".

Quoting cv880 (Reply 6):
The only towers that need to be shut down are those at DCA, IAD, BWI & ADW, then this "crisis"may suddenly dissipate.

That will not happen (ADW is military controllers, anyway), nor will it happen at some two bit po-dunk airport that politicians like to fly into.

All this finger pointing by the President and the Congress is the real BS. Sequestration was the the President's idea, originally, Congress (including the Democrat controlled Senate) passed his idea, and then he signed it into law. Yet all of this "doomsday BS" coming from the POTUS, WH, and Democrats in the Senate and the House blaime this entire "Doomsday" seneriao on the Republicans.

That is an outright LIE.

Don't get me wrong, the Republicans have a share in the responsibility in the sequestration as they controlled the House, which also passed the President's bill.


User currently offlineaklrno From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 923 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 3156 times:

When you are told to take 1 day a week off without pay, that is a pay cut. You have an extra day a week to figure out how to pay the monthly bills that aren't changing. I suppose getting all five days off is not losing your job.

User currently offlinerobsaw From Canada, joined Dec 2008, 233 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 3083 times:

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 8):
All this finger pointing by the President and the Congress is the real BS. Sequestration was the the President's idea, originally, Congress (including the Democrat controlled Senate) passed his idea, and then he signed it into law. Yet all of this "doomsday BS" coming from the POTUS, WH, and Democrats in the Senate and the House blaime this entire "Doomsday" seneriao on the Republicans.

That is an outright LIE.

Don't get me wrong, the Republicans have a share in the responsibility in the sequestration as they controlled the House, which also passed the President's bill.

From an outsider, the sequestration and the whole US fiscal nightmare appears not to be the result of any one president or any one congress but the result of several administrations worth of lack of real ideas and the more recent dysfunction of the entire US federal political system. Assigning blame is surely a purely political game so calling one sides blame casting a "lie" is itself a political statement of opinion and not fact. The sequestration is happening because a joint committee didn't act, which was formed because a previous debt-ceiling limit was not going to be met, which was set because of massive drop in gov't revenue due to the 2008 financial crisis, which could be attributed to another nearly endless trail of financial escapist measures by both Democrats and Republicans. So, who is to blame exactly for a hammer that was crafted by the White House? Given that a very similar measure, Gramm-Rudman-Hollings Balanced Budget and Emergency Deficit Control Act of 1985, arose during the Reagan administration and was sponsored by 2 Republicans and 1 Democrat makes the question of blame even more interesting. That measure failed to contain the deficit back then and was itself followed-up by the Budget Enforcement Act of 1990 that also seems to not have had a lasting impact.

Of course it is a "lie" but not just one little partisan part, the whole world of politics is a lie with no one really willing to make the tough choice that will alienate their core voters.


User currently offlinewjcandee From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 5130 posts, RR: 22
Reply 11, posted (1 year 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 2863 times:

The whole thing was "Firemen First", a time-honored New York (and probably Chicago) political practice. Want to cut the budget, or, God forbid, hold it to last year's numbers? (Remember budget "cuts" are often "cuts" from the planned increase in the budget, like this year.)

Well, Sir, that doesn't mean I'm going to cut the grunts in the backoffice where my nephew works and where nobody will notice the cuts. No way. Instead, I'm giving notice that the budget constraints are so severe that I am going to be "forced" to close a firehouse or two, preferably in areas where the neighbors will complain the loudest and the media will pay the most attention.

That's all this was. The Saturday Night Live parody was pretty good. (But not as good as the recent laugh-out-loud Rosetta Stone "commercial".)

[Edited 2013-03-04 20:12:51]

User currently offlinechrisjw From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 123 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 4 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 2564 times:

CNN is reporting that 173 towers will officially be closed on April 7th:

"Washington (CNN) -- The federal government will close 173 air traffic control towers at small- and medium-size airports on April 7 because of forced spending cuts, the Federal Aviation Administration told tower operators Tuesday. It will close another 16 towers on September 30, the end of the fiscal year.

Spenser Dickerson, head of the Contract Tower Association, told CNN that FAA officials gave him the news, capping off a five-day period in which the FAA first told contractors they would close scores of towers, then backtracked on the news."

http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/05/travel...owers-closing/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

Anyone have the official list?

[Edited 2013-03-05 11:30:46]

User currently onlinebobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1649 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (1 year 4 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 2429 times:
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Privatize the ATC system.

User currently offlineIAHFLYR From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 4790 posts, RR: 22
Reply 14, posted (1 year 4 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 2369 times:

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 13):
Privatize the ATC system.


Now there's a new concept never mentioned before!   

Quoting cv880 (Reply 6):
The only towers that need to be shut down are those at DCA, IAD, BWI


Great idea, but really sad when we have to hit the Congressional leaders right in the nose to wake them if that would even wake them. From other things I see they have very short memories so I'm not sure even a wake up call will help.



Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
User currently offlineatwinstructor From United States of America, joined Jul 2012, 13 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (1 year 4 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 2303 times:

Quoting chrisjw (Reply 12):

Found this list from February 22-

http://www.faa.gov/news/updates/media/Facilities_Could_Be_Closed.pdf


User currently offlineSiouxATC From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 386 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (1 year 4 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 2289 times:

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 8):
That will not happen (ADW is military controllers, anyway), nor will it happen at some two bit po-dunk airport that politicians like to fly into.

No it isn't. ADW is FAA operated.


User currently offlineNBGSkyGod From United States of America, joined May 2004, 797 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (1 year 4 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 2191 times:

The list has not changed so far...however, I do expect once the time gets closer, some facilities will change.


"I use multi-billion dollar military satellite systems to find tupperware in the woods."
User currently offlineIAHFLYR From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 4790 posts, RR: 22
Reply 18, posted (1 year 4 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 2008 times:

Quoting SiouxATC (Reply 16):
ADW is FAA operated

Indeed.   



Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
User currently offlinerichierich From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 4242 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 1900 times:

Quoting NBGSkyGod (Reply 17):
The list has not changed so far...however, I do expect once the time gets closer, some facilities will change.

If the list does not change, what will the affects be to commercial operations? A quick scan through the six pages and I'm guessing 10-20% of those airports have some sort of commercial service. I assume most airlines are OK with operating at non-controlled airports, right?

The airport I am most familiar with on this list is HVN. Currently the airport serves just one airline, US Airways Express, with a handful of daily flights to PHL. Is US likely to stop serving HVN because of these closings? I would assume there is slightly more risk at an uncontrolled field versus using a controller.

[Edited 2013-03-06 10:16:09]


None shall pass!!!!
User currently offlineatwinstructor From United States of America, joined Jul 2012, 13 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 1880 times:

Quoting richierich (Reply 19):
The airport I am most familiar with on this list is HVN. Currently the airport serves just one airline, US Airways Express, with a handful of daily flights to PHL. Is US likely to stop serving HVN because of these closings? I would assume there is slightly more risk at an uncontrolled field versus using a controller.

Airlines operate into uncontrolled fields everyday. In my area, RHI and IMT come to mind. There is an added risk as at some of the uncontrolled fields you are mixing regional jets with Piper Cubs and no middle man to separate them. I do not expect any service reductions as a result of tower closures.


User currently offlineNBGSkyGod From United States of America, joined May 2004, 797 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 1794 times:

I think it depends on their SOP...some carriers do not allow operations into uncontrolled fields.


"I use multi-billion dollar military satellite systems to find tupperware in the woods."
User currently online1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6447 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 1778 times:

Actually, it looks like closures will occur on April 7:
http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/05/travel...-traffic-towers-closing/index.html

I'm guessing SAF, ROW, and HOB can kiss their RJ services goodbye if they are on the final chopping block.



The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently offlineEASTERN747 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 519 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 1657 times:

Let's get one thing clear. The mess in Washington is our own fault. The majority of Americans are basically sheep and don't speak out, call their representatives in Washington and bitch. When those folks in DC are forced to wait in line for an hour, which I'm sure they don't do anyway, things may change. God forbid nothing happens at an airport that will loose the controllers.

User currently offlinesccutler From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 5491 posts, RR: 28
Reply 24, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 1583 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 4):
At the risk of getting this post deleted for political discussion, it is very relevant- our government has NO idea what it is doing right now when it comes to money.

That is not a politically abrasive comment; it is an observation regarding the inherent nature of any bureaucracy.

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 22):
I'm guessing SAF, ROW, and HOB can kiss their RJ services goodbye if they are on the final chopping block.

Why would you say that?



...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21530 posts, RR: 55
Reply 25, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 1590 times:

Quoting NBGSkyGod (Reply 21):
I think it depends on their SOP...some carriers do not allow operations into uncontrolled fields.

Uncontrolled fields yes, non-towered fields no. There's a subtle but important difference (that has to do with airspace classification), and I don't know of any carrier that can't land at an airport just because it doesn't have an operating control tower.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineIAHFLYR From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 4790 posts, RR: 22
Reply 26, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 1521 times:

Quoting Mir (Reply 25):
Uncontrolled fields yes, non-towered fields no. There's a subtle but important difference (that has to do with airspace classification), and I don't know of any carrier that can't land at an airport just because it doesn't have an operating control tower.



Good point. Class D which converts to E is okay I'm guessing, Class D which converts to Class G without an operating control tower is no bueno'?



Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
User currently offlineatwinstructor From United States of America, joined Jul 2012, 13 posts, RR: 0
Reply 27, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 1330 times:

Quoting IAHFLYR (Reply 26):
Good point. Class D which converts to E is okay I'm guessing, Class D which converts to Class G without an operating control tower is no bueno'?

Plenty of Class D airports revert to Class G when the tower is closed and to my knowledge does not interfere with airline ops.


User currently offlineIAHFLYR From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 4790 posts, RR: 22
Reply 28, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 1291 times:

Quoting atwinstructor (Reply 27):
Plenty of Class D airports revert to Class G when the tower is closed and to my knowledge does not interfere with airline ops.


I'm sure there are a few, but what is good for airline A to operate into may not work for airline B, C & D.



Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
User currently offlinefalstaff From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 6075 posts, RR: 29
Reply 29, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 1249 times:
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Quoting chrisjw (Reply 12):
The federal government will close 173 air traffic control towers at small- and medium-size airports on April 7

DET tower will close according to a report on WWJ 950 this morning



My mug slaketh over on Falstaff N503
User currently offlineKarlB737 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3096 posts, RR: 10
Reply 30, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 1236 times:

Quoting falstaff (Reply 29):
DET tower will close according to a report on WWJ 950 this morning

Courtesy: WXYZ-TV

FAA To Close Control Tower At Detroit’s Coleman A. Young International Airport

"The Detroit tower is not the only one in Michigan that will close. Small airports in Battle Creek, Jackson and Marquette also have towers that are operated by unionized contractors and are on the list to be closed."

http://www.wxyz.com/dpp/news/region/...international-airport-city-airport


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