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MAD T4 Taken By IB Workers, Chaos Expected  
User currently offlineGonzalo From Chile, joined Aug 2005, 1996 posts, RR: 2
Posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 11652 times:

Hundreds of IB workers took the T4 in MAD today, in the first day of the second week of strikes ( Monday to Friday ), causing a severe disruption of the airport normality.

It is expected to see the same in the next days of strike, since the negotiations with IAG are frozen.

http://economia.elpais.com/economia/.../actualidad/1362340822_334356.html

Definitely not a good week for air travel in Madrid....


Rgds.

G.


80 Knots...V1...Rotate...Gear Up...DC-3 / EMB-110 / Fairchild-227 / Ab318-19-20 / B732 / B763
114 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBestWestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7313 posts, RR: 57
Reply 1, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 11522 times:

And where are the police to Evict them?


The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently offlineGonzalo From Chile, joined Aug 2005, 1996 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 11396 times:

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 1):
And where are the police to Evict them?

I guess they are avoiding a confrontation since the previous week of strikes in February had a couple of "ugly" situations... but definitely the police should keep some degree of control...

Rgds.
G.



80 Knots...V1...Rotate...Gear Up...DC-3 / EMB-110 / Fairchild-227 / Ab318-19-20 / B732 / B763
User currently offlineBestWestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 7313 posts, RR: 57
Reply 3, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 11281 times:

Quoting Gonzalo (Reply 2):
I guess they are avoiding a confrontation since the previous week of strikes in February had a couple of "ugly" situations... but definitely the police should keep some degree of control...

So, The police are allowing people to take-over a major transport building illegally, and stopping all operations from the bullding? Spain is really going down the tubes.

I fear that Spain will follow Greece into the Abyss if this continues. I note the Anti-British flags and symbols etc




The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently offlinegoosebayguy From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2009, 417 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 11248 times:

Unemployment levels in Spain are running at 26%. I guess there will be an increase soon. IAG are losing about £10m a day which is probably less than if IB were working normally.

User currently offlineGonzalo From Chile, joined Aug 2005, 1996 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 10973 times:

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 3):
I note the Anti-British flags and symbols

Tipical reaction of blaming everyone but itself....IB loses money due to the aversion of the people to fly with them, and that aversion has *something* to do with the attitude of the workers for years.... but is always more effective to play the victim role and blame the other....

Quoting goosebayguy (Reply 4):
which is probably less than if IB were working normally.

And that explains why IAG is not changing a coma in their restructuring plans....


Rgds.
G.



80 Knots...V1...Rotate...Gear Up...DC-3 / EMB-110 / Fairchild-227 / Ab318-19-20 / B732 / B763
User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13551 posts, RR: 100
Reply 6, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 10845 times:
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Quoting Gonzalo (Reply 2):
I guess they are avoiding a confrontation since the previous week of strikes in February had a couple of "ugly" situations... but definitely the police should keep some degree of control...

They also need to allow some venting. But workers need to understand they must have their workload and salaries adjusted to be competitive.

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 3):
I note the Anti-British flags and symbols etc

Trying to endear themselves obviously...

Quoting goosebayguy (Reply 4):
Unemployment levels in Spain are running at 26%. I guess there will be an increase soon. IAG are losing about £10m a day which is probably less than if IB were working normally.

I wonder. Does IB lose more per day operating or with the strikes? I would really like to know the true numbers.

Quoting Gonzalo (Reply 5):
IB loses money due to the aversion of the people to fly with them

But that's not the strikers fault.   That's management. Sigh... I really want IB to thrive, but this is not going to help.

Quoting Gonzalo (Reply 5):
And that explains why IAG is not changing a coma in their restructuring plans....

I expect they might go less in favor of the workers.


Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently onlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 6616 posts, RR: 35
Reply 7, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 10754 times:
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Quoting lightsaber (Reply 6):
I wonder. Does IB lose more per day operating or with the strikes? I would really like to know the true numbers.

According to IAG, the company is losing $3 million Euro daily through the strike but the government says it is losing $10 million. That is a dramatic number because it means that if the unions go on with the 15 days already announced, the loses will come to $150 million. Plus, add the days during Easter, which they are talking about striking then too, and the cash hemorrghage is just daunting.


User currently offlineaircatalonia From Spain, joined Nov 2007, 581 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 10719 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 6):
Does IB lose more per day operating or with the strikes? I would really like to know the true numbers.

Rebooking on other companies is not cheap so I'm sure IB is losing more money now. If they hadn't sold tickets in the first place the story may have been different, though.


User currently offlineairsmiles From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2009, 88 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 9 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 10605 times:

It's a very sad situation indeed but I see absolutely no chance of Iberia employees coming out of this with any degree of success. What are the parallels here with the scale of Alitalia's and Air France's losses and how they'll be faced up to?

User currently offlineAesma From Reunion, joined Nov 2009, 6962 posts, RR: 12
Reply 10, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 9825 times:

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 3):
I fear that Spain will follow Greece into the Abyss if this continues.

So, you think that Greece got where it is because of strikes and protests ? No, those are the consequences of the situation, not the cause.

Quoting Gonzalo (Reply 5):
Tipical reaction of blaming everyone but itself....IB loses money due to the aversion of the people to fly with them, and that aversion has *something* to do with the attitude of the workers for years.... but is always more effective to play the victim role and blame the other....

Or maybe less people can afford to fly when the economy of the country is in the gutter ?



New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlineseahawk From Germany, joined May 2005, 1329 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 9642 times:

Letting Iberia go bankrupt must be an increasingly interesting option for IAG. Probably the only option left.

User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8862 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 9538 times:

Quoting Gonzalo (Reply 5):
IB loses money due to the aversion of the people to fly with them, and that aversion has *something* to do with the attitude of the workers for years....

Ask Ecuadorian passengers traveling between MAD and UIO/GYE on IB how they are typically treated by IB cabin crew. Chileans traveling to Europe won't stand for it and simply avoid IB. Just look at LAN's LFs on the route to MAD and AF's LFs on the route to CDG! We even have ex-IB pilots flying for LAN now!

Quoting Aesma (Reply 10):

Quoting Gonzalo (Reply 5):
Tipical reaction of blaming everyone but itself....IB loses money due to the aversion of the people to fly with them, and that aversion has *something* to do with the attitude of the workers for years.... but is always more effective to play the victim role and blame the other....

Or maybe less people can afford to fly when the economy of the country is in the gutter ?

Meanwhile the economies of South American countries such as Chile, Colombia, Perú, etc. are experiencing robust growth. Luckily, passengers from these countries that want to travel to Spain or other countries in Europe can simply avoid flying on IB as they have other options. AV will increase frequency on the BOG-MAD route, LAN plans on increasing frequency on the SCL-MAD route; as well as launching BOG-MAD in the future. LAN has also shown an interest in serving BCN and FCO in the future. AF has shown an interest in launching CDG-UIO and will increase frequency on the CDG-LIM route. UX will soon launch MAD-MVD and will increase frequency on routes to HAV and SDQ. Perú will offer LH incentives to fly FRA-LIM. Should IB be worried? Of course not...


User currently offlineIndianicWorld From Australia, joined Jun 2001, 3036 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 9378 times:

What do these people seriously think they will do here?

Theres only 2 realistic realities from actions like this:
1/ More cuts to help make to airline survive
2/ The carrier declares bankruptcy and they are ALL out of a job

Oh yeah, great plan this one. A few genius' at work again. Typical.


User currently offlineBlueShamu330s From UK - England, joined Sep 2001, 3072 posts, RR: 23
Reply 14, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 9245 times:
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Give the wounded animal a shot to the head.

Shut it down once LATAM are fully in OneWorld. Let IAG set up a shell company, reverse investment from them and LATAM into it and launch a new airline within IAG called LATAM Espana. It's a known, respected brand, totally new, cheaper employee T&Cs and remains within OneWorld.

Adios to the Iberia dinosaur.


Rgds



So I drive a 4x4. So what?! Tax the a$$ off me for it...oh, you already have... :-(
User currently offlineLHRFlyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2010, 823 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 9216 times:

The anti-British sentiment is disgraceful.

BALPA in particular have been empathetic to both the need of Iberia to be restructured and the concerns of its staff and has tried to offer practical support to SEPLA for negotiations between SEPLA and management. They would do well to heed it.


User currently offlineMillwallSean From Singapore, joined Apr 2008, 1299 posts, RR: 6
Reply 16, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 9178 times:

Quoting BlueShamu330s (Reply 14):
Give the wounded animal a shot to the head.

Shut it down once LATAM are fully in OneWorld. Let IAG set up a shell company, reverse investment from them and LATAM into it and launch a new airline within IAG called LATAM Espana. It's a known, respected brand, totally new, cheaper employee T&Cs and remains within OneWorld.

Adios to the Iberia dinosaur.


hmm and you think that would work?
This is Europe such things wont work.
Itll be a negotiated settlement where the government comes in and pulls more than a few strings.
Question is if it will be a long term solution or a short term gap. Iberia eventually needs to address its structural deficiencies and instigate some bold reforms. Itll be a period of five years and they wont be fun and I expect that the employees will suffer a fair bit during these years. new contracts, less pay, worse conditions. just what most other European airlines has done or will have to do. (Hello SK, LH, AZ, AF etc)

While the company might go bankrupt and be restarted it wont be with any Latam involvement. Latam isnt a name that Europeans are familiar with nor is LAN seen as a quality carrier (middle of the road just like iberia)
In my opinion any new carrier would be based on the rather successful Vueling (already owned by the company) They can use similar contracts for staff and create an international division. Probably keep the name Iberia since its brand recognition is so big.

Strikes where the employees occupy and disrupt any service isn't uncommon in Europe and police are extremely unlikely to act. Unless there is a national interest for them and I doubt they see such interest with a terminal at the airport. I personally find such strikes a bit refreshing, always brings a smile to my face to see french farmers go berserk and close down half the country when they get upset over something. Not that I support that behaviour but I find it mildly amusing. Same as when the danish Carlsberg brewery workers went on strike because they weren't allowed to drink during working hours. Just makes me smile and realise the world is diverse and how much more I need to learn about other cultures.



No One Likes Us - We Dont Care.
User currently offlineSCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8862 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 9090 times:

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 13):
What do these people seriously think they will do here?

Raising awareness that passengers should not book flights on IB and travel on other carriers instead of IB. IB's unions refuse to realize that their competitors have lower cost structures and that their competitors' employees work just as hard for less . It's shameful that some of IB's employees will blame the additional losses associated with passengers avoiding booking flights on IB on their partner carrier BA. At SCL, LAN is rebooking passengers traveling between SCL and destinations such as CDG, FRA, LHR, MAD, MXP, etc. on flights operated by TAM. All the flights to Europe from SCL, GRU, GIG, LIM, GYE operated by LATAM will soon be oversold!


User currently onlineicaro From Spain, joined Nov 2004, 231 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 9048 times:

Quoting LHRFlyer (Reply 15):
The anti-British sentiment is disgraceful.

There is no such sentiment. You want to take things out of context. They are blaming BA, or rather Willie Walsh and that´s why the use the british flag.
The same happened last week with those "British Go Home" on the screens. Of course they don´t mean British people but British Airways, or rather British Airways management team.
It is them they blame for how things are being done at the airline. They are not even against the salary cuts. All they want is a real plan for the company to survive and some dignity for those who are fired. They want to be offered early retirements rather that lay offs, which is rather understandable after a whole life at the company and the situation at the country which means that those fired won't be able to get a new job.
The Spanish management team agreed to those in december and later found out that WW wouldn't allow them to offer those conditions and prefer to use the new labour law that allows cheap firings so the company will save more money.

That is all their anti-British sentiment.


User currently offline76er From Netherlands, joined Mar 2007, 574 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 9031 times:

Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 16):
In my opinion any new carrier would be based on the rather successful Vueling (already owned by the company)

I would agree. It has been done before with Swissair/Crossair and Sabena/Delta Air Transport.


User currently offlineGonzalo From Chile, joined Aug 2005, 1996 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 8621 times:

Quoting BlueShamu330s (Reply 14):
Let IAG set up a shell company, reverse investment from them and LATAM into it and launch a new airline within IAG called LATAM Espana.

I don't think many people in Europe will know LATAM so deeply. And I doubt LAN management ( and their TAM counterpart ) will start this kind of adventures when there are many things to do in order to get the real benefits of LATAM, I think they will wait a good couple of years before even think in projects like the one you're talking. But obviously I could be wrong...

Rgds.

G.



80 Knots...V1...Rotate...Gear Up...DC-3 / EMB-110 / Fairchild-227 / Ab318-19-20 / B732 / B763
User currently offlineBA174 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2009, 768 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 8595 times:

Quoting icaro (Reply 18):

So blame everybody else but IB? Sounds familiar.

The BA management have absolutely nothing to do with the day to day running of IB. They have their own (profitable) company to run.


User currently onlineicaro From Spain, joined Nov 2004, 231 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 8436 times:

Quoting BA174 (Reply 21):
The BA management have absolutely nothing to do with the day to day running of IB

I can tell you that those people marching on T4 have nothing to do with the way Iberia is being run. They don´t have anything to do with fleet planning, route planning or anything that brought the company to the state it is in now.
Those responsible are long gone with full pockets or planning to leave the company the same way.

Quoting BA174 (Reply 21):
The BA management have absolutely nothing to do with the day to day running of IB. They have their own (profitable) company to run.

IB would be profitable too if it used IAG's money to buy Air Europa and integrate it into its own structure for its own benefit.(BMI remember?) It must be easier to run a (profitable) airline when you have easy access to money that is not only yours.


User currently offlineSKAirbus From Norway, joined Oct 2007, 1812 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 8373 times:

I have seen it before unfortunately... It is how the Spanish labour market works and one of the reasons that the economy is in such a state. Devolve all responsibility onto others even though at the end of the day you have to be part of your own destiny.

For example, if Iberia cabin crew actually had any people skills and didn't treat every passenger with complete and utter contempt, then maybe more people would fly with them. The same goes for ground staff. Also, being militant will not solve anything but will just contribute even more to management turning against them. The way it is in Spain now, they should just feel lucky that they have a job when a quarter of their countrymen are unemployed.

Of course a company should look after its staff within the resources they have but one part of a consortium is not there to prop up the other, but rather compliment it and I find it rather unfair that IB staff seem to have this opinion of British Airways.

Personally I think IAG should force through a full restructuring of IB by letting the carrier go bankrupt and rebirthing it through another subsiduary (as was mentioned above).



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User currently offlinejerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 2089 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 8167 times:
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This taking over of the terminal is barbaric, I hope that everyone that did so loses their jobs. Even if you agree with this strike (I'll admit I don't), you cant condone this behavior, you handle yourself with respect rather than being an angry mob.
What's next if this doesn't work do you start destroying things so the company has to pay to replace them?



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25 jrfspa320 : If IB hadnt been bought by BA I think they would already be bankrupt, the Spanish government has no money to subsidize them and are restricted in doin
26 LHRFlyer : At the moment, BA would be more profitable had it not bought bmi. It absorbed €90m of losses from bmi last year. There's no question that Iberia wo
27 acelanzarote : where is all this going to end I wonder, IAG/IB are not going to back down its seems, they cannot I guess but the Unions seem to think they have nothi
28 BlueShamu330s : Don't blame WW then; blame your politicians, who you elected, for introducing the new legislation. WW has a mandate to achieve the best results for I
29 nostrum : IB was not bought by BA, both airlines merged and formed IAG, and before the merger and the Spanish crisis IB was profitable.
30 BestWestern : They have nothing to do with the running of the airline, yet get paid so much??? They can't have it both ways. Their salaries were a large part of wh
31 clydenairways : I think your view on using the Vueling AOC is a good suggestion that makes sense. With the way things are going at the moment i can't see any end in
32 BlueShamu330s : Nor can I but, as with the suggestion made by MillwallSean about using Vueling, I was simply illustrating how easy it would be. Part of the problem i
33 Post contains links and images lightsaber : How much of an impact is this strike having on the Spanish economy? Taxes? IB must get up their productivity to survive: http://centreforaviation.com/
34 AR385 : Can you please explain what exactly do you mean by "WW will win this"? Because really, I see nobody "winning" in this situation.
35 BlueShamu330s : What I mean is exactly what I wrote. Willy Walsh will win the dispute for the survival of Iberia and for the overall performance of IAG as a whole. C
36 Redd : Have you read a word icaro wrote? It's sad to see that once again the workers are paying the consequences for mistakes caused by management. Those wo
37 icaro : The thing is that BA is using IAG resources for their own purpose (even if this year means a loss). Therefore IB is helping BA buying its competitors
38 alfie1980 : Hi all, first of all I would like to say I am a new member to this forum and I really enjoy reading the different opinions of all the members. I would
39 Gonzalo : Sorry, but that's not true. Maybe they are not making the route planning, or the investment program, or the fleet renewal plan.... but they are makin
40 Post contains links Gonzalo : Update : T4 under police control, with massive display of police officers, and no protesters allowed today. Meanwhile, the SEPLA ( Pilots Union ), ann
41 summa767 : It sound like you believe what you are writing. Honestly, please do your research before you make such ridiculous statements. The money for BA invest
42 UALWN : I'd like to repeat what icaro wrote above: So the (Spanish) management of IB reached an agreement with labor, which was then overturned by WW and his
43 BlueShamu330s : Because the previous "proposal" was rushed and issued in full knowledge of the fact new legislation would save the company a considerable amount more.
44 Post contains links summa767 : In the press release below, IB stated how IAG's board was made up: Board members now consist of six people with Spanish nationality, three Britons, t
45 AR385 : I really don´t get where it is exactly that you say WW is winning anything. From this thread and others we´ve come to understand that BA´s decisio
46 icaro : Thank you for your kind words. Please check who bought BMI, IAG or BA? Which company is getting the profit of the operation, BA or IB? You can say th
47 JU068 : You do understand we are talking about human lives here, right? The Spanish want to give them early retirements rather than to fire them. There is a
48 Post contains links summa767 : Look, investments are one thing and operations are another. If you want to think that the investments that IAG are doing are only benefiting BA, you
49 icaro : Lay offs are 3.800, compensation under new labour laws. No early retirements. 12% salary cuts for ground staff and around 30% for cabin crew and pilo
50 LHRFlyer : Did whatever was agreed between Iberia management and the unions actually meet the savings target? If it did why an earth would IAG turn it down? And
51 Redd : I agree, but once again it's up to Management to 'Manage/Lead' and create a working environment for employees to be happy. That will in turn make for
52 Gonzalo : Although I completely agree with you regarding the main issue ( the Spanish government will never allow IB going belly up ), I wonder where on Earth
53 UALWN : But the board (as most boards) just rubber stamps what the CEO proposes, so its composition is mostly irrelevant. You are the only one who are bringi
54 LHRFlyer : Because it didn't meet the target set by IAG.
55 summa767 : And the CEO is Irish! How many times does this have to be repeated! Of course it does exist. I have seen the pictures, of "British go home on screens
56 icaro : I could not agree any more. And why didn't they buy it with their own money? Why did IB have to spend much needed cash in financing something that wi
57 U2380 : Because they don't have their 'own money'. Its the same company and the Iberia side of the company is decimating the profits that the BA operation is
58 icaro : They are two different airlines with their own money that happen to be owned by a parent company called IAG. They are two separate entities with thei
59 LHRFlyer : Because BA has no authority to buy another airline. Those decisions are made by IAG. BA, like Iberia, is merely an operating subsidiary. There's no e
60 U2380 : They operate as subsidies of IAG, neither are listed individually on stock markets and their financial performances are not reported as separate enti
61 BestWestern : I am someone who is working harder for less money in the same company to ensure survival. I am also paying higher taxes. Welcome to the recession. I a
62 UALWN : Why is that relevant?? He could be from Burkina Faso for all anybody cares! He was the CEO of "British" Airways! That's the "British" the IB guys are
63 RyanairGuru : Well if that's the case then maybe they should be more clear. From where I sit - far removed from this jingoistic xenophobia - Mr and Mrs Smith in Su
64 AR385 : Political support would probably come from the left. They are hell bent on rebutting everything the PP does, rightly, in my opinion. They are also on
65 Post contains links and images lightsaber : Does anyone have convenient links of a snanummary of IB's finances for say a decade prior to the merger? Including any 'help.' . Also, does anyone hav
66 Post contains links UALWN : Here: http://www.es.iairgroup.com/phoenix....html?c=240949&p=irol-reportsannual The summary is that the IB group was profitable every year since
67 summa767 : He was the CEO of Air Lingus too. And yet when he was at BA, there was no anti-irish feeling among the many employees affected by the restructuring a
68 UALWN : You are obsessed with this. There are no anti UK feelings here either! This is insulting. But there's no point in arguing. You know how I feel. Heck,
69 UALWN : By the way, there are no anti-Irish feelings either within the IB employees. So how is their attitude different from that of the BA employees?
70 Post contains links and images summa767 : What is insulting is tryingti hide the truth: It's plain enough. It's nationalistic, and not just anti-BA. You may fool yourself, but you won't fool
71 seahawk : Iberia is destroying itself. I love the airline for its proud history, but currently it isone the way out. They do not have an image as a customer fri
72 LHRFlyer : And the facts are: a) The operating profit figures tell a different story b) Without the backing of IAG, Iberia would be bankrupt as suppliers would
73 BestWestern : Oh, and the Spanish economy has collapsed since then. It makes no difference though - Iberia staff still think they are government employees who get p
74 BlueShamu330s : For 2012 alone: British Airways: 295Million PROFIT. Iberia: 896Million LOSS One thing rarely, if ever, acknowledged on here by the Iberia defenders i
75 Bongodog1964 : All the issued shares are for IAG, BA and IB no longer exist in investment terms. There is no BA money, and no IB money, it all belongs to IAG. The s
76 alfie1980 : Its anti BA management in IAG not anti British people, lets just be clear, Spanish people we have no issues or any old rivalries with any country in
77 Post contains images lightsaber : Thank you for the links. Nitpick, 2010 had a small operational loss too. Looking as the summary, IB's costs were ready to put them into this situatio
78 Post contains links BlueShamu330s : The latest article was last week, March 1st, regarding an A340: http://www.aviationnews-online.com/a...ovenant-on-a340-600-finance-lease/ Rgds
79 Bongodog1964 : No issues with anyone ? So its all fine with Gibraltar then and you permanantly respect the residents wish to remain British. As to its all about the
80 PDPsol : OK, newsflash, this is not all that unusual, just because a borrower "blows" a covenant in its credit agreement, or in this case, its operating lesso
81 Bongodog1964 : However every time a covenant is broken a waiver has to be requested and negotiated. Not only does this cost money in fees, but it can also result in
82 bennett123 : Regardless of what anyone may say, anyone seeing the images in reply 3 and 70 will conclude that Brits are not welcome. Given how big Spain's tourist
83 PDPsol : No one is debating that. IAG has certainly needed to negotiate something in return for obtaining a waiver from its creditors. A "blown" covenant is t
84 TYCOON : I just booked this morning a business class ticket from ORY to LAX via MAD with Iberia in July.... call me crazy, mad, adventurous, masochistic or jus
85 BlueShamu330s : That is the point. It is a given amongst those close to the situation that were it not for IAG (that big, bad company run by an Irish bully, robbing
86 goosebayguy : Iberia is beginning to look like Sabena. Sad to say.
87 Post contains links Gonzalo : You are certainly an optimistic !!!! But you never know.... my family booked tickets for a trip MVD-SCL-ANF-SCL-MVD with a "perfectly good and health
88 Post contains links LHRFlyer : They are conditional share awards based on the performance of the company. http://www.iairgroup.com/phoenix.zht...rticle_Print&ID=1792650&hig
89 Post contains images TYCOON : Thanks Gonzalo... I too had a ticket on PU from MVD to GIG last January, but the airline went belly up way before the date of travel... and my travel
90 Post contains images clydenairways : So now we have Gibraltar being brought into this discussion now This thread is turning into farce.
91 phxa340 : I have to go with everyone else on this one ... when the Unions waved anti-British flags they were the ones who put the nationalistic spin on the stri
92 summa767 : I am glad that you looked at the figures, and see the relevance of the operational profit (sadly, some people fail to see this, and insist that "a pr
93 alfie1980 : Excuse me, I dont think Gibraltar should be brought in this conversation as it has nothing to do. If you think that us Spaniards are anti British the
94 alfie1980 : Maybe your family had a bad experience flying on Iberia I never had. I do at leat 50 flights with them a year. I begin to feel like some of you will
95 lightsaber : You just convinced me that when you and your significant other are wearing black leather, you are *not* the one holding the whip. Thank you for your
96 Post contains images Bongodog1964 : You clearly stated that the Spanish peopledon't have any issues with any other Country in Europe, I replied with the Gibraltar question, and you imme
97 Post contains links AR385 : The results and suggestions by the mediator accepted two weeksa go by both IB and the unions has come out. The proposals are non-binding. Key points:
98 LJ : Don't expect a Swissair/Sabena construction. Unlike Swissair and Sabena, IB does have a domestic competitor which will probably sue the Spanish gover
99 Bongodog1964 : The one that sticks out to me is no5, whilst the others are a few % away from IAG's stance, It might be that the cost difference between redundancy a
100 Post contains images Gonzalo : Your answers are here : Well, depending on the side of the wall you are standing, the answers can be NO/YES/NO/YES, or the opposite. The problem is,
101 Post contains images lightsaber : I believe you. I didn't dig that deep and the numbers looked bad. I can only imagine the muck found in a true 'deep dive' accounting... That has to e
102 Post contains links AR385 : With the current legislation, when the employee is fired, the employee has a right to receive up to 20 days of salary per year worked. However, this
103 UALWN : What muck? Do you know anything we don't know? Do you expect to find anything different from what you'd find in the books of BA? Or AF? Or DL?
104 lightsaber : Wow. That is generous severance. A little dive through IB's accounting showed they really were eating away at their assets. Usually, when an airline
105 UALWN : But this is not what you said: Again, what would you expect to find? And why? Are you accusing IB of cooking the books, perhaps?
106 RyanairGuru : I think what Lightsaber is saying is that in one year he found that IB made a loss on flying, but was able to show a profit overall because of mainte
107 Post contains images lightsaber : They lost money in 2008 flying but covered it up with a maintenance transaction. I consider that 'Muck.' Trying to hide losses with either one time t
108 Lutfi : Of course, another reason why the lenders agreed to the covenant bust is that what choice do they have? Remarketing an A346 is hard. Now, if they had
109 LJ : It's not if you compare that to the rest of the EU. In The Netherlands this was the minimum untill 1 year ago (currently 0.5 month per worked year) t
110 1400mph : Seems obvious that reform is required at IB and under normal circumstances one would expect and withstand the industrial action as it is just part of
111 Bongodog1964 : Even the new scheme looks potentially generous by UK standards, Our state minimum is based on age and years worked. Under 43 years old and you get on
112 summa767 : The truth is that many other companies have already slimmed down. Many people in Spain were employed on a string on temporary contracts anyway, so em
113 1400mph : Well yes especially now Latam has confirmed Oneworld membership. IB does have loads of potential agreed...as long as they can weather the storm.
114 alfie1980 : As I said we do not have an issue with Gibraltar, don't forget 99.99% of the people in Gibraltar have a second home in Sotogrande (Cadiz) and we do n
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