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AA Modifies Republic E175 Leases - Reduces Count  
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25347 posts, RR: 49
Posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 9587 times:

AA apparently has modified its proposed agreement with Republic Airways to operate Embraer 175 aircraft under the American Eagle banner.

Under terms of the original deal announced in January, AA was planning on utilizing 53 firm aircraft.

AA now has modified this, and reduce the planned lease count to 47.

It looks to be the 6 removed aircraft were the 6 used planes that Republic was going to place with AA. Now instead AA will only receive the 47 planned new deliveries.

Story:
American Airlines takes six used jets out of proposed Republic Airways deal
http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/2...oposed-republic-airways-deal.html/

=


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
44 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinesteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9208 posts, RR: 20
Reply 1, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 9364 times:

I can see why TWU would have issues with this, they don't want to see their work outsourced over to Republic, which I am guessing is what would happen here.

Unions need to understand something here. Yes, it is a pain, but this company is trying to restructure its costs to get out of bankruptcy. If it is cheaper to lease Republic E175s rather than using their existing model, then so be it.

I do wonder where AA plans to use these planes...



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlinebobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1725 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 8904 times:

Quoting steeler83 (Reply 1):
I do wonder where AA plans to use these planes...

My guess is a majority will be ORD based.


User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3749 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 8586 times:

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 2):
Quoting steeler83 (Reply 1):
I do wonder where AA plans to use these planes...

My guess is a majority will be ORD based.

Last I heard, that will be the case.

That said, where will the used 175s go - RAH flying for United Express, RAH for Delta Connection, or a non-RAH operator?



"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlineFRNT787 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 1324 posts, RR: 15
Reply 4, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 8379 times:

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 3):
That said, where will the used 175s go - RAH flying for United Express, RAH for Delta Connection, or a non-RAH operator?

I believe they were to come from other sources, such as leases. RAH has no spare E175 and I do not believe DL or US are planning on shrinking their operations.



"We have a right to fail, because failure makes us grow" --Glenn Beck
User currently offlinefloridaflyboy From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 2012 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 7708 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
It looks to be the 6 removed aircraft were the 6 used planes that Republic was going to place with AA. Now instead AA will only receive the 47 planned new deliveries.

That is correct. Bryan Bedford announced on the Q4 call last week that the 6 used planes were dead and would not be taken and that the agreement would now be just for the 47 new-build aircraft (still pending BK court approval of course, which is scheduled to be reviewed March 12).

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 2):

My guess is a majority will be ORD based.

Yes, initially at least, these aircraft will be ORD based.

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 3):
That said, where will the used 175s go - RAH flying for United Express, RAH for Delta Connection, or a non-RAH operator?

They were to be sourced from other operators, so they will now simply not be taken by RAH.



Good goes around!
User currently offlinebobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1725 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 7636 times:

No knowing but I would guess from ORD the first markets would be EWR, MSP and ATL. Without the US merger PHL and DCA would be good adds, but the merger will boost AA in these markets so they will go all mainline.

User currently offlinefloridaflyboy From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 2012 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks ago) and read 7305 times:

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 6):
No knowing but I would guess from ORD the first markets would be EWR, MSP and ATL.

Agree with these, and in addition, you will also almost guaranteedly see service to RAH maintenance/crew bases in IND, CMH, PIT, and/or MCI.



Good goes around!
User currently offlineN737AA From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 270 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 6632 times:

When are these aircraft to be delivered?

N737AA


User currently offlinebobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1725 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 6535 times:

Quoting floridaflyboy (Reply 7):
Agree with these, and in addition, you will also almost guaranteedly see service to RAH maintenance/crew bases in IND, CMH, PIT, and/or MCI.

Yeah. Plus I forgot YYZ likely. I didnt know RAH had an MX base in MCI.


User currently offlinenorcal From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 2459 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 5899 times:

It'd be nice if they cancel the whole contract. Republic can't staff the flying they have now, their Q-400 operation isn't the best and their pilot group is itching to strike. Even if they don't strike they can slow things down.

AMR has a serious problem developing on their hands, the merger with US Airways triggered a 95% furlough protection clause for American Eagle pilots meaning 2800 pilots now must be furlough protected instead of the original 2000. That includes keeping captains at their current pay even if they can no longer hold positions as captains.

There isn't enough space left in the scope clause for this contract to survive and keep American Eagle pilots working instead of just collecting pay checks and sitting at home.

Something is going to have to give.


User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11604 posts, RR: 61
Reply 11, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 5770 times:

Quoting norcal (Reply 10):
There isn't enough space left in the scope clause for this contract to survive and keep American Eagle pilots working instead of just collecting pay checks and sitting at home.

And how do you know that? How do you know what AMR's long-term fleet plan is for Eagle?


User currently offlinenorcal From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 2459 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 5711 times:

Quoting commavia (Reply 11):

Count the current combined US Airways fleet and the American Eagle fleet and compare it to the scope under the MOU.

http://www.audriesaircraftanalysis.c...-new-aa-regional-system-look-like/

With systems merged there is room for approx~ 30 more aircraft under the system before 75% is exceeded. The Republic award should put the new American fleet beyond 75%. Unless
The combined mainline narrow-body fleet grows by just over 30 aircraft in the next year, subsequently making room for the additional regional aircraft beyond the current limitations.
Regional capacity is retired at another regional airline in the system.
Under the American Eagle Pilots agreement with AMR they were furlough protected to 60% of the Regional feed for American or a charted number in the contract; whichever was less. This clause only remains in affect if they did not merge.
If they do merge another set of clauses go into affect, which are a bit more complicated. It should be noted though that 95% of the pilots currently at Eagle upon date of approval of the Bankruptcy court should be furlough protected. Interestingly, in the event American Eagle does retire Eagle aircraft and therefore becomes overstaffed and unable to furlough because of this agreement then it will boost the percentage of training slots. The boost at American could be up to 50-60% depending upon circumstances. In short this is how the New American will be incentivized to reduce its fleet at other airlines besides Eagle, who may not have the same protections or long term contracts.


User currently offlinerealsim From Spain, joined Apr 2010, 645 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 5597 times:

Quoting norcal (Reply 12):
With systems merged there is room for approx~ 30 more aircraft under the system before 75% is exceeded. The Republic award should put the new American fleet beyond 75%. Unless the combined mainline narrow-body fleet grows by just over 30 aircraft in the next year, subsequently making room for the additional regional aircraft beyond the current limitations.

AA will retire 33 Eagle aircraft this year (9 AT7, 21 ER3 and 3 ERD), so with the new 47 Republic aircraft, the regional fleet will represent around 73% of the mainline narrow-body fleet of the combined airline.


User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11604 posts, RR: 61
Reply 14, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 5543 times:

Quoting norcal (Reply 12):
Count the current combined US Airways fleet and the American Eagle fleet and compare it to the scope under the MOU.

http://www.audriesaircraftanalysis.c...like/

Yeah ... and?

As others have said, statically counting tails today is rather meaningless, as the number is dynamic and changing rapidly. Eagle alone is dumping dozens of planes this year. Not to mention the huge number of 50-seat RJs that AA is likely to pull out of the system over the next five years (a la DL). And, for that matter, the mainline fleet is changing and will continue to change, too.

Besides - do you honestly think management is planning to have pilots "just collecting pay checks and sitting at home?" Come on. Let's be real. Besides, between flow up, retirements, open positions at mainline (not to mention at other higher-paying carriers), and the very real possibility that Eagle will be getting new capacity, I think it is quite likely that Eagle may in a few short years find itself facing not a surplus but a shortage of pilots.

I've yet to see anything concrete - as opposed merely to conclusions jumped to here on A.net - to suggest doom and gloom for Eagle pilots.


User currently offlinenorcal From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 2459 posts, RR: 5
Reply 15, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 5423 times:

Quoting commavia (Reply 14):

Horton tried till the very end to resist the merger. It was never something he wanted. Republic was his plan, not Parker's or part of the new merged carrier. Everything is up for review, Parker said that.

The current parking of Eagle's planes was based on a fleet size to support a pilot group of 2,000 for the next couple of years. They have over 3,000, the numbers don't add up. The merger changed the entire dynamic.

The flow through to American has never worked as intended, most of those pilots were supposed to be over ther shortly after they signed the 1997 contract at Eagle, they are still there. According to Eagle pilots on other web boards they are losing about 20-25 a month. The planes are being parked much faster than that so they will end up with pilots sitting at home doing nothing.


User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11604 posts, RR: 61
Reply 16, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 5368 times:

Quoting norcal (Reply 15):
Horton tried till the very end to resist the merger. It was never something he wanted. Republic was his plan, not Parker's or part of the new merged carrier. Everything is up for review, Parker said that.

The current parking of Eagle's planes was based on a fleet size to support a pilot group of 2,000 for the next couple of years. They have over 3,000, the numbers don't add up. The merger changed the entire dynamic.

The flow through to American has never worked as intended, most of those pilots were supposed to be over ther shortly after they signed the 1997 contract at Eagle, they are still there. According to Eagle pilots on other web boards they are losing about 20-25 a month. The planes are being parked much faster than that so they will end up with pilots sitting at home doing nothing.[/quote]

So ... in other words ... more conjecture and speculation.

Why would the merger "change the entire dynamic" or the plan to add more large RJs? I highly doubt Parker would be in too much of a rush to add more of these - after all, he's already flying well over 100 of them at his current airline.

Again - you have no idea what AMR's fleet plan for Eagle is. Or do you? I don't, but I'm not jumping to conclusions yet. You keep stating over and over that "the numbers don't add up," despite the fact that you don't seem to know precisely what all of the actual numbers are. How do you know that AMR isn't planning to put 50 new CRJ700s with Eagle?

Anything is possible. So far what you've repeated over and over is that Eagle is parking planes.


User currently offlinenorcal From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 2459 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 5084 times:

Quoting commavia (Reply 16):

Eagle is parking airplanes while the new aircraft are going elsewhere. AMR only had to guarantee positions for 2,000 Eagle pilots and their current plan reflected that (shrinking to a size of about 200 aircraft as ATRs and ERJs are parked this year and into next year). Now with the merger they have to protect the jobs of an additional 800 pilots. The merger was something Horton didn't want and all of his plans for Eagle and AA reflected his wishes to go it alone. The scope clause doesn't allow room for addtitional aircraft and parking more ERJs and replacing them with new large RJs (to stay with in the new scope) doesn't provide jobs for the additional furlough protected pilots, all it does is continue to follow the old pre merger plan.

They can't keep losing all of those aircraft with out any kind of replacement, in fact they need a little growth otherwise they will have people sitting around at home doing nothing.

I don't know what is so hard to understand? Nearly every regional airline staffs planes at a ratio of 10 pilots per plane. 2800 pilots won't efficiently do the work of a plan for 2,000 pilots.

Putting 50 new CRJ-700s at Eagle can't be done right now unless they park 50 ERJs because of the scope but you are back at square one with the same number of pilots doing the same amount of work. They need some growth.

Like I said the dynamic has changed.


User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11604 posts, RR: 61
Reply 18, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 4639 times:

Interesting filing today with the Court regarding AMR's E175 agreement with Republic.

No earth-shattering news in the release, but a few notable points:

* The "goal" of AMR's business plan is "to acquire up to 215 large regional jets by 2018"

* AMR is specifically interested in a 76-seat E175 or CR9

* AA issued RFPs to Eagle and six "independent operators" to operate either E175s or CR9s

* 5 of the operators submitted a total of 25 bids with different combinations of new/used aircraft; Eagle was viewed as non-responsive as it did not already have E175s or CR9s, and was not viewed as being able to finance them right now

* The E175 was deemed as superior for the competitive ORD market due to its "product experience...more similar to a narrow body aircraft versus the CRJ-900" (many of us AA FFs will no doubt be thrilled to hear AA acknowledge that)

* The Republic E175s will begin phasing into the AA system in "mid-2013" at ~2-3/month

* "Republic will acquire, finance, and/or own all aircraft" - AMR assumes absolutely no direct liability for the aircraft themselves


User currently onlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8533 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 4580 times:

Worth noting, Republic already operates E-175s for US Airways. So, those deserve to be included in these discussions. It is a useful and comfortable airplane!

User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5573 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 4581 times:

Quoting norcal (Reply 17):
Putting 50 new CRJ-700s at Eagle can't be done right now unless they park 50 ERJs because of the scope but you are back at square one with the same number of pilots doing the same amount of work.

But I thought this scope was for the entire AA-US, not just the PMAA side of the business.

ZW have 71 CR2s with US that are coming towards the end of their contract. Replace those 71 CR2s with Eagle RJs that were heading to the desert, and you're pretty much back to 2,800 pilots.



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlinecrj900lr From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 344 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 4464 times:

Those 71 CR2's can't leave fast enough. Nothing but problems with them on a daily basis. And their crews are always so cheerful!! I would love to see that flying that ZW is attempting to do for us now go to Eagle/PSA/Piedmont. I'm sure Parker and his boys have a plan and it will be interesting to see who is doing what flying where.

User currently offlineUAL Bagsmasher From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 2146 posts, RR: 10
Reply 22, posted (1 year 6 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 3958 times:

Is anyone on this forum old enough to remember old fashioned LP's? Remember the skip they would develop and play the same few notes over and over? That scenario brings to mind the sour grapes of a certain individual on here who can't seem to come up with anything productive to forum discusssions. The only play in his book is to bash ZW. It's getting old guy...

User currently offlineN62NA From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4469 posts, RR: 7
Reply 23, posted (1 year 6 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 3738 times:

Quoting realsim (Reply 13):
so with the new 47 Republic aircraft, the regional fleet will represent around 73% of the mainline narrow-body fleet of the combined airline

If I'm reading this correctly, that means that 3 out of 4 narrowbody planes operating as "AA" will be planes owned and operated by airlines other than AA?


User currently offlinerealsim From Spain, joined Apr 2010, 645 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 6 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 3698 times:

Quoting N62NA (Reply 23):
If I'm reading this correctly, that means that 3 out of 4 narrowbody planes operating as "AA" will be planes owned and operated by airlines other than AA?

No, it means that for every 100 mainline narrow-body aircraft operated by AA, up to 75 (additional) regional jets can be operated by regional airlines. All the aircraft operating as American (mainline) will be flown by AA. The percentage of outsourced regional aircraft (either operated by owned or third party carriers), will be less than 40% of the combined American + American Eagle total fleet.

[Edited 2013-03-13 18:10:52]

25 N62NA : Yep, I understand that American (mainline) will be flown by AA. But focusing in our your very interesting original observation, and your clarificatio
26 realsim : Yes, that is correct, and for sure that percentage will be reached. However, AA will be the legacy with a higher ratio of mainline aircraft, as the 7
27 KD5MDK : It was already corrected in text, but the correct ratio would be 3/7. I'm looking forward to bigger RJs in ORD so I can have a more comfortable fligh
28 floridaflyboy : Correct, and in a bit different configuration (8/72 at US versus 12/64 at AA). I wonder what the final configuration will be post-merger.
29 jfklganyc : I do not know the specifics of the new scope agreement, but I have been in this industry long enough to know that. No one is getting paid to sit at h
30 bobloblaw : I wouldn't count on seeing E75s on YOW. Possibly YUL definitely YYZ.
31 FutureFO : The agreement was approved and we are starting in June with the new build 175's. ORD will be the first base. Yes we were offered Eagle to purchase but
32 Post contains links and images mariner : The SEC filing: http://biz.yahoo.com/e/130313/rjet8-k.html On March 1, 2013, the Company signed Amendment No. 1, to the Company's capacity purchase a
33 Post contains links norcal : You won't get any disagreement from me. My whole point has been the promises made to Eagle in terms of job protections haven't been met. If you look
34 commavia : And what promises would those be, specifically, that "haven't been met?" Has any Eagle pilot yet been furloughed or lost CA/FO slots as a result of a
35 norcal : Not yet. The pre-merger plan had Eagle settling in at around 2,000 pilots for several years, roughly enough to staff 200 aircraft worth of flying. Th
36 Post contains images realsim : Management will not pay pilots to stay at home and do nothing. If they want to contract other airlines for their regional operations, they can just s
37 N62NA : Yes, I agree with you on that.
38 norcal : Correct. The longer that Eagle goes with our a fleet plan, the more likely this is going to happen. The old plan was based on a stand alone AA. Thing
39 LAXintl : So with that plan in mind, and the court approving the Republic E175 deal this week there should be RFP out there for 168 additional frames in the co
40 Deltal1011man : huh? All of Delta big RJs have GoGo. So Shuttle, Compass, ASA, SkyWest, GoJets etc offer inflight internet.
41 xpfg : I believe he meant US Airways system.
42 FutureFO : Yes I mean the USAirways system. Using their code.
43 lightsaber : What was the specific contractual promise to Eagle? I understand they're losing jobs, but what has been promised to their pilots in writing/contract?
44 norcal : There were two portions to the furlough protection section of Eagle's new bankruptcy CBA. One in the event of AA emerging as a stand a lone carrier.
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