edina From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 713 posts, RR: 10 Reply 1, posted (2 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 11277 times:
Fly Globespan & BMI have both had the contract to fly to the Falklands. I would have thought Air Tanker would tke over once they have a full compliment of A330s.
Worked on - Caravelle Mercure A300 A320 F27 SD3-60 BAe146 747-100/200/400 DC10-30 767 777 737-400 757 A319 A321
clydenairways From Ireland, joined Jan 2007, 995 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (2 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 11263 times:
It's a contract that seems to change hands quite regularly. Others that operated in the past were Globespan and the RAF themselves.
I think Hi Fly are the current operator with the A340.
Bongodog1964 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 3012 posts, RR: 2 Reply 7, posted (2 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 10570 times:
Titan Airways had the contract for the previous two years.
This is a contract that appears to change hands on a very regular basis. The big question is why. Is it due to operators continually cutting each others throats to get the work, or do operators get fed up with the penguin run and and either not bid, or bid high.
rufusisgod From Ireland, joined Nov 2008, 69 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (2 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 10489 times:
I worked for XL when we used the travel city direct 747-300 on the penguin run. It's a lucrative contract especially in the winter when charter work is slow. The main issue we faced was from a crewing perspective. Having crew away from base for 1-2 weeks living on an army base is challenging and leaves you short for crew at your home base.
330lover From Belgium, joined Jul 2008, 504 posts, RR: 1 Reply 9, posted (2 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 10043 times:
Quoting rufusisgod (Reply 8): Having crew away from base for 1-2 weeks
This looks very long.
Aren't those flights going 2 or 3 x a week? When I was in the islands 3 years ago, there was a 2 or 3 weekly service where 'normal citizens' (no military staff) could get a seat, be it at a quite high fare.
Quoting PhotoLPPT (Reply 5): Saw it the other day doing a tech stop in SID. Can't tell if it is a regular occurence, though.
Must have been exceptional due whatever reason. Normally it goes nonstop BZZ-ASI-MPN.
Anyhow, uptil now we have:
Air Seychelles
Air Tahiti
Fly Globespan
BMI
Hi Fly
RAF (off course)
Titan (didn't know they have aircraft with that range...)
XL Airways
And to add an extra question, what equipment did they use?
Air Seychelles ==> 763
Air Tahiti ==> 343
Fly Globespan ==> ??
BMI ==> 332
Hi Fly ==> 343?
RAF ==> L11, M11?
Titan ==> ??
XL Airways ==> ??
Britten Norman Islander VP-FBR on Falkland Islands. THAT'S FLYING!
egph From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2006, 205 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (2 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 9756 times:
Yup GSM used their 767's when they had that run. Maybe it's just a figment of my imagination but did MON not have the contract for a very short while running either A300-600 or A330s down to the Falklands?
No matter the operator they always tend to use the Flight numbers *210/1 & *220/1 as these correspond with the MOD terminal departure screens which badge this as a RRR flight. IE departure screen will show RRR8210 while the Hi Fly aircraft will flightplan HFY8210.
According to Flight Routings 2003 and 2006 editions it was still in house at that time:
RRR3210/1 & 3220/1 flown by RAF TriStar.
theobcman From UK - England, joined Nov 2010, 121 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (2 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 4810 times:
Flights are operated by Air Titan 767-300. I have the info below re pricing :
FARES
Airfares are listed in the table below. £22 Embarkation Tax is payable on all Northbound flights.
Fare Type Southbound Northbound Return Basic Notes
Duty £775 £775 £1550 This fare is for Falkland Islanders, residents and their immediate family; and HMG/FIG sponsored personnel.
Standard £1111 £1111 £2222 Available to non Duty passengers.
Group £999 £999 £1999 Applicable to groups of six or more people, booking and travelling together.
Child/
Student £426 £426 £853 Resident children pay 55% the adult Fare from their 2nd to 16th birthdays. The adult/full fare applies from the 16th birthday unless the passenger is in full time education or is travelling to/from college as part of an apprenticeship scheme."
This reduced fare does not apply to non resident children or students, even if they are entitled to the Duty Fare.
Infant Children under 2 years of age travel free of charge but are not entitled to a seat. Only three Sky cots are provided per flight.
A more detailed breakdown of eligibility for different fares can be provided upon request. Please contact travel@falklands.gov.fk for more information.
If you choose to break your journey up with a stay on Ascension then you will be billed for the extra leg this will add to your flight. The fare for individual ‘legs’ are given below.
Fare Type Tariff BZZ-ASI ASI-FI
Adult (Duty) Return £925 £645
Single £467 £330
Child/Student Return £515 £360
Single £261 £185
Group Tourist Return £1010 £1010
Single £510 £510
Standard Econ Return £1122 £1122
Single £565 £565
PlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11108 posts, RR: 63 Reply 17, posted (2 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 4360 times:
Quoting theobcman (Reply 16): If you choose to break your journey up with a stay on Ascension then you will be billed for the extra leg this will add to your flight. The fare for individual ‘legs’ are given below.
If that's the all in fare for UK-Falklands, then it's more than halved when I looked at going several years ago on the RAF flight. Makes me think about doing it now.
BilgeRat From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 174 posts, RR: 1 Reply 18, posted (2 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 3464 times:
I did two stints down in the Falklands in 2007 on RFA Gold Rover. Both times I flew down there on an Air Atlanta 747-300 crewed by XL. The aircraft itself was a totally anonymous white with no logos or markings. When I looked up the reg it was an ex-Thai aircraft.
Funnily enough these were the best flights I've ever been on, the cabin crew and flight crew were utterly excellent, and the flight home was always a party atmosphere with some very funny PA announcements, Tornado F3 escort away from the Falklands (with banter from the Tornado crews passed to the pax via the PA from the flight deck), and a very funny send off from the RAF ramp staff at Mount Pleasant.
flyingalex From Germany, joined Jul 2010, 991 posts, RR: 1 Reply 19, posted (2 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 3096 times:
Quoting theobcman (Reply 16): If you choose to break your journey up with a stay on Ascension then you will be billed for the extra leg this will add to your flight. The fare for individual ‘legs’ are given below.
Fare Type Tariff BZZ-ASI ASI-FI
Adult (Duty) Return £925 £645
Single £467 £330
Child/Student Return £515 £360
Single £261 £185
Group Tourist Return £1010 £1010
Single £510 £510
Standard Econ Return £1122 £1122
Single £565 £565
So you mean to tell me that if I wanted to fly BZZ-ASI-MPN-(ASI)-BZZ, I'd be looking at a total fare of nearly £1700?
Whoa...
Public service announcement: "It's" = "it is". To indicate posession, write "its." Looks wrong, but it's correct grammar
edina From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 713 posts, RR: 10 Reply 20, posted (2 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 3066 times:
Don't forget that these flights are operated almost exclusively for the MoD, and there are only between 10-30 seats sold to civilians on each flight. The civilian seat allocation is also used by "Saints" from St Helena who use the Air Bridge for faster access to their home island - many Saints work in the Falklands and Ascension. From Ascension, Saint Helena can be reached in 2 days by the RMS St Helena ship. The only other way of reaching the island is via CPT, and a 6 day journey on the RMS St Helena. The highest numbers of Saints in the UK live in the Swindon area...handy for BZZ!
debonair From Germany, joined Jan 2004, 2096 posts, RR: 4 Reply 22, posted (2 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 2155 times:
Quoting GB777 (Reply 6): CS-TQL has been doing the Falklands flights but this leaves the fleet soon and will be replaced with CS-TQY
Strange, I thought AirTanker Services will take over the flights with the arrival of new A330's Voyagers.
Why is AirTanker Services not flying for the MOD/RAF being a passenger airline (despite the name AirTanker)?
rutankrd From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 1993 posts, RR: 5 Reply 24, posted (2 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 1884 times:
Quoting debonair (Reply 22): Strange, I thought AirTanker Services will take over the flights with the arrival of new A330's Voyagers.
Why is AirTanker Services not flying for the MOD/RAF being a passenger airline (despite the name AirTanker)?
The commercial leases are almost certainly better value and cheaper than using Air Tanker.
UK Auditors have expressed major concerns that this PFI (Private Finance Initiative) is VERY Expensive - As always the MOD Mandarins and associated civil servants seem hopeless at negotiating favourable contracts.
Further the civil registered AT aircraft are restricted as to where they can be flown by commercial insurances.
Currently AT are operating one aircraft in a purely passenger fit on regular flights to/from Akrotiri and around the UK and NATO countries.
One aircraft remains on test and one a tanker is on shake out and one is commissioned at BZZ.
by738 From US Minor Outlying Islands, joined Sep 2000, 1975 posts, RR: 1 Reply 26, posted (2 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 1935 times:
Perhaps not from a fuel point of view, but these aircraft are paid off and owned and most maintenance is in house. The total cost of a brand new A330 or lease plus additional ancillary costs associated with a new type may bring the costs closer, a bit like why BA continue to operate a profitable service with a huge fleet of ageing 747's
finnishway From Finland, joined Jul 2012, 187 posts, RR: 0 Reply 27, posted (2 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 1943 times:
I thought A330 Voyagers were ordered to replace Tristars and VC10's. So it would be logical to operate them to Falklands. If it is too expensive why didn't they just use RAF employees for everything instead of civilian personnel?
rutankrd From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 1993 posts, RR: 5 Reply 28, posted (2 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 1881 times:
UK governments of all colours are movitated by PFI or similar financing mechanisms that either transfer or delay Capital Expenditure to some distant time frame however upon audit many have been found wanting the point that risk remain it the public domain and the contractor continues to benefit
The voyager programme is one of them
Again the commercial trouping and cargo operation to Stanley will be cost benifical on a civil lease rather than with the rates air tankers charge
finnishway From Finland, joined Jul 2012, 187 posts, RR: 0 Reply 29, posted (2 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 1855 times:
Quoting rutankrd (Reply 28): Again the commercial trouping and cargo operation to Stanley will be cost benifical on a civil lease rather than with the rates air tankers charge
Ok. I get it, but do they still have any plans to fly with Voyagers to Falklands once a month or something like that? They have to replace older RAF jets at some point in the future and if they want to have capability to aerial refueling, then they have to use Voyagers or other tankers. Defending Falklands from air is impossible without air tankers, since Ascension is far away from Falklands. The only option would be submarines so if UK wants to be able to defence Falklands, they fly with Voyagers at least to Ascension, no matter what it costs.
rutankrd From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 1993 posts, RR: 5 Reply 30, posted (2 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 1838 times:
Quoting finnishway (Reply 29): Voyagers to Falklands once a month or something like that?
When the KC3 version is commissioned (RAF as opposed to AT) on occasion they will certainly be flying via Ascension Island in the tanking role however thats at least two years out !
Bongodog1964 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 3012 posts, RR: 2 Reply 31, posted (2 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 1798 times:
The problem is that an attitude has prevailed within HM Govt for a number of years that its PFI or nothing. PFI always looks good in year 1 for a project with expensive equipment and/or facilities involved as there's only the lease cost to pay rather than the capital purcase cost. But its a 30 year deal, and will invariably look expensive after a few years. Another aspect is will we even require the planes in 30 years time ? we'll still be paying for them.
A similar situation has developed with Army tank transporters, these are now operated on a PFI deal, the cost for additional mileage howeve is dearer than employing civilian low loaders, so the PFI transporters stand idle whilst the MOD hires in lorries that usually transport excavators and bulldozers to shift tanks and personnel carriers. The same will probably happen with the Falklands Airbridge, Airtankers hire rate will be far above Titan and even further above Hi Fly, so the business will go to them.
rutankrd From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 1993 posts, RR: 5 Reply 32, posted (2 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 1741 times:
Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 31): The same will probably happen with the Falklands Airbridge, Airtankers hire rate will be far above Titan and even further above Hi Fly, so the business will go to them.
Exactly that.
PFI and similar mechanisms are a disaster .
And the MOD are hopeless Project Managers to boot
The RAF Voyagers are also the least capable MRTT version being produced !
No boom (Through the KC3 will be capable) , Pods modifications (extra cost) due to design failures when transferring to certain other RAF assets.
Cobham screw up on conversion/deliveries requiring Getafe to rescue programme (At extra cost again !)
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