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Delta Building Up LAX...Again  
User currently offlineJBAirwaysFan From United States of America, joined May 2009, 1027 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 19307 times:

Looks like Delta is taking yet another crack at building up LAX into some sort of focus city with combo of year round and seasonal service to 14 destinations of which 8 are new markets.

http://news.delta.com/index.php?s=43&item=1922

Now I've seen Delta do this in the past and within a year they completely pulled everything back. I personally feel that this is going to be the case again with the exception of a few markets.

The only announcement I'm not terribly surprised to see is the upgrade to 6x mainline on LAX-LAS. It's heavily saturated and competing with RJs on a route that is already filled to the brink with mainline service is probably not the way to go and in order for Delta to make their voice heard in this market probably warrants the upgrade.

So do you think this is a failure in the making? Or could it work this time?


In Loving Memory of Casey Edward Falconer; May 16, 1992-May 9, 2012
163 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineQANTAS747-438 From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 1972 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 18789 times:

Is it that time of the year for "DL to build up LAX" already? Should be interesting to see which cities are cut when DL pulls back again in 9 months.


My posts/replies are strictly my opinion and not that of any company, organization, or Southwest Airlines.
User currently offlineawacsooner From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1933 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 18689 times:

DL at LAX = NK at just about everywhere: Build up...reap some profits...cut and run.

User currently offlineslcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3552 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 18054 times:

Quoting JBAirwaysFan (Thread starter):
So do you think this is a failure in the making? Or could it work this time?

This question is asked everytime they add to LAX........never know. There will always be people saying this time its for real and this time there serious about LAX. We wont know until time goes by. I don't even know if Delta knows yet it never seems that have a clear plan for LAX


User currently offlineAADC10 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2099 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 18017 times:

Quoting awacsooner (Reply 2):
DL at LAX = NK at just about everywhere: Build up...reap some profits...cut and run.

I doubt DL or NK are profiting much by starting flights then cutting them. They are just testing routes out and discovering if there is enough business or not. It takes a little time for a route to take hold so it is not as if there is pent up demand that is relieved and then they can drop it.

LAX is difficult to break into. It is gate limited by a consent decree so DL would have difficulty adding a significant number of gates. WN is the largest domestic carrier at LAX while UA and AA consider it a hub. Just about every major international carrier flies there, including many superior Asian carriers. The Southern California weather and unobstructed approach allow the four parallel runways to operate at full capacity almost all the time so that a mini hub operation is possible, the limit is the gates.


User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20740 posts, RR: 62
Reply 5, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 18007 times:

Quoting JBAirwaysFan (Thread starter):
So do you think this is a failure in the making? Or could it work this time?

DL has two big international flights, SYD and HND, to support this time vs. other times when they've ventured into the LAX market. DL also has a large investment in the transcon market to JFK to build upon.

The dynamics of their competition is different this time, too. UA is still choking down its merger with CO, and AA is about to exit BK and leap into their merger with US.

I'd give DL better than a fighting chance this time around.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineMercure1 From French Polynesia, joined Jul 2008, 1605 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 17951 times:

What is Delta fetish with Los Angeles? For 20-years now they build up, then drop.

I guess LA customers get dizzy with endless Delta PR to only find that "new" (resumed) flights no longer exist after half year.

Seems they should never have destroyed what Western left them in hindsight as its taking lots of money and time to try to recreate things year after year.


User currently offlineazstar From United States of America, joined May 2005, 623 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 17951 times:

I don't think UA considers LAX a hub. They moved substantial operations to SFO a few years ago, and they are left with a majority of Skywest regional jets to almost all West Coast markets from LAX.

User currently offlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10511 posts, RR: 14
Reply 8, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 17905 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 5):
Seems they should never have destroyed what Western left them in hindsight as its taking lots of money and time to try to recreate things year after year.

IIRC, there wasn't all that much of Western's to destroy as they had already moved much of it to SLC when they opened that as a hub, before the DL/WA merger.



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20740 posts, RR: 62
Reply 9, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 17773 times:

Quoting mayor (Reply 8):
IIRC, there wasn't all that much of Western's to destroy as they had already moved much of it to SLC when they opened that as a hub, before the DL/WA merger.

Just for the record, you clicked on my post for quoting when highlighting text posted by Mercure1, but I don't necessarily disagree with his viewpoint.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10511 posts, RR: 14
Reply 10, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 17505 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 9):
Just for the record, you clicked on my post for quoting when highlighting text posted by Mercure1, but I don't necessarily disagree with his viewpoint.

If I clicked on your post, why did HIS sentence show up?? Another A.net glitch, perhaps?



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20740 posts, RR: 62
Reply 11, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 17428 times:

Quoting mayor (Reply 10):
Another A.net glitch, perhaps?

No, it's due to how scripting works. I can highlight your text again, then click on anyone else's "Select Text Quoted" button, and it will appear as if they were being quoted. It's called « user error ».  

Example:

Quoting azstar (Reply 7):
If I clicked on your post, why did HIS sentence show up??



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2933 posts, RR: 6
Reply 12, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 17355 times:

Quoting azstar (Reply 7):
I don't think UA considers LAX a hub. They moved substantial operations to SFO a few years ago, and they are left with a majority of Skywest regional jets to almost all West Coast markets from LAX.

UA does consider LAX a hub. AA considers it part of their "cornerstone." DL probably considers it a focus city but I haven't seen anything that officially classifies it as such (outside of third party reporting).

However it's all subjective - there is no industry or official definition of a hub so it's up to the airlines to call an operation a "hub."


User currently offlinempdpilot From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 994 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 17127 times:

Though, like most of you I am skepical of how long this lasts giving DL track record. I feel there are a couple things that show this is going to stick.

First, co-locating with AS. This is quite significant as you don't have to clear security to transfer to and AS flight or vise versa. This will increase the number of AS/DL and DL/AS itineraries significantly I think.

Second, They are increasing the PHX, SMF, and OAK markets. This shows that not only are they working but they are working well. Delta wouldn't add an additional flight to these markets if they were failing, they would have held the 4 daily that they have.

Third, The DL Leadership doesn't seem as short term focused as previous leaders. They have shown with their decisions that they are looking at the long haul. They aren't making quick decisions to make a quick buck. Surely there will be times when routes don't work (i.e. DTW-HKG). But you need to take some risks, and I am sure there will be some routes out of LAX that don't work either, but that doesn't mean they will cut tail and run because they are in it for the long haul.

For what it's worth, I think AA recognizes this too, with a few of their most recent changes in LAX. They added PHX around the same time as DL. I think AA realizes that this isn't the DL build up of old.



One mile of highway gets you one mile, one mile of runway gets you anywhere.
User currently offlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10511 posts, RR: 14
Reply 14, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 17126 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 11):

Ok....got it....never had that happen before.



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25751 posts, RR: 50
Reply 15, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 16716 times:

Quoting azstar (Reply 7):
I don't think UA considers LAX a hub.

They mention it on their PR.

Also they are the biggest airline at LAX in enplanements.

For activity, even if you want to discount the ~100 UAX flights, they still have nearly 90 mainline flights also. LAX is bigger then IAD for example in such regard.

Quoting mayor (Reply 8):
there wasn't all that much of Western's to destroy as they had already moved much of it to SLC when they opened that as a hub, before the DL/WA merger.

According to departflights.com, at time of DL merger WA had 163 departures from LAX.

One big loss for Delta at LAX, was subsequent Skywest switching from Delta to United. That took with it a dozen+ communities and feed opportunity.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineaaway From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 1535 posts, RR: 14
Reply 16, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 16637 times:

AeroWesty has the right idea. Not only have:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 5):
The dynamics of their competition is different this time.
DL has, to a degree, parlayed AA's LAX playbook into what appears to be a winning venture. The Skyteam and unaligned international partners have increased DL's traffic. AS has been valuable - particularly for the SYD flight. Just synergistic momentum.

Quoting AADC10 (Reply 4):
LAX is difficult to break into. It is gate limited by a consent decree so DL would have difficulty adding a significant number of gates.
LAX is about 10 gates below that threshold due to gate closures/retirements that are grandfathered into that community agreement. Considering DL's current fleet mix at LAX, they could, in theory, add back the 3 gates decommissioned in T-5.

But, with LAWA's gate usage clause, the current 16 gates (13 in T5, 3 in T6) should suffice for now.

To digress a bit, I've always felt that DL miscued at LAX with the NW merger. DL obtained NW's interest in T-2 and quite possibly could've locked up T-3, which was in play at the time.

Quoting mayor (Reply 8):
IIRC, there wasn't all that much of Western's to destroy as they had already moved much of it to SLC when they opened that as a hub, before the DL/WA merger.

From the time WA began building up LAX (circa 1983), approximately 25 mainline flights were added. That peaked at, IIRC, 85 weekday, peak season (Summer, 1985) mainline departures. At the time of the merger, WA was still at about 75-80 such departures.

The growth at SLC came at the expense of DEN and MSP.





[Edited 2013-03-06 16:58:06]


With a choice between changing one's mind & proving there's no need to do so, most everyone gets busy on the proof.
User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11752 posts, RR: 62
Reply 17, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 16601 times:

I think DL stands a better shot this time around than previous attempts.

I think some of their more "marginal" LAX flying is likely to struggle going forward - just as it did in attempts past - but the "core" local western U.S. markets (e.g., PHX, SEA, SFO, LAS, SAN, etc.) that have a strong local component to/from LAX and/or a strong onward connecting component to transcons/NRT/HND/SYD/CDG/partner flights are likely to survive.

I do question the need for quite as much capacity and frequency as DL is currently putting into some of these markets, and think some will come down as 50-seaters are puled out of the network and 70-90-seaters are backfilled, but I suspect that some level of flying on these routes is likely to remain.


User currently offlineMIflyer12 From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 1113 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 16450 times:

Quoting commavia (Reply 17):
I do question the need for quite as much capacity and frequency as DL is currently putting into some of these markets, and think some will come down as 50-seaters are puled out of the network and 70-90-seaters are backfilled, but I suspect that some level of flying on these routes is likely to remain.

I don't follow your 50-seater reference in the context of this LAX flying. A Bloomberg piece noted that all DL LAX flying is on 2-cabin aircraft - meaning no 50-seaters.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-0...s-to-compete-against-american.html


User currently offlineUALAX From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 145 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 15911 times:

I'm curious as to how this will affect UA. After all UA has a much larger operation at SFO and UA could reduce or cancel intra-West flights from LAX in favor of its San Francisco operation.

User currently offlineJBAirwaysFan From United States of America, joined May 2009, 1027 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 15655 times:

Something I just thought of. Did DL try to build up LAX post NW merger already or is this the first time they did it after?


In Loving Memory of Casey Edward Falconer; May 16, 1992-May 9, 2012
User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11752 posts, RR: 62
Reply 21, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 15375 times:

Quoting MIflyer12 (Reply 18):
I don't follow your 50-seater reference in the context of this LAX flying. A Bloomberg piece noted that all DL LAX flying is on 2-cabin aircraft - meaning no 50-seaters.

What I was referring to is the huge number of 50-seaters that DL is planning to pull out of their system over the next few years. I suspect that some of that capacity will be backfilled by precisely some of the 2-cabin CR7s and CR9s now flying in and out of LAX on some of these extremely high-frequency routes DL is now operating with DCI.

Quoting UALAX (Reply 19):
After all UA has a much larger operation at SFO and UA could reduce or cancel intra-West flights from LAX in favor of its San Francisco operation.

UA is already a shadow of what it once was at LAX, and has majorly shifted west coast emphasis to SFO in the last decade. It's actually rather amazing when you look at it in certain individual markets - on lots of the big or biggish western U.S. routes UA used to dominate or be strong in from LAX - like LAS, PHX, SLC, SJC, TUS, SMF, ABQ, etc. - AA (and in some cases also DL) are now larger than UA.

To be sure - UA is still a huge force in the LAX market, but the gap between it and its competitors (especially AA) has dramatically closed since 9/11. And post-merger, before any network optimization/rationalization, AA will - for the first time in at least decades - be larger at LAX than UA.


User currently offlinemia305 From United States of America, joined Mar 2013, 319 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 15304 times:

If DL can do it more power to them. On transcon flts they will be competing with AA
to NY which has a better product in my opinion and to a lesser extent UA. What else
is there left that isn't saturated with competition.


User currently offlineyellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6222 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 15159 times:

I have been saying this for some time.....and this time I give them a better shot. DL now has a decent NYC base and to complement that it needs LAX.

I say more C and S. American stuff is coming for LAX. Certain cities in that region have very good traffic from the West Coast and DL now has that feed in place to make it work.

Also with DL and AM now very tight, they can do more Mexico stuff and get the feed/loyalty they need on the mexican end

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 5):
I'd give DL better than a fighting chance this time around.

Agree

Quoting mpdpilot (Reply 13):
Third, The DL Leadership doesn't seem as short term focused as previous leaders.

Agree. They really think outside the box and are at least willing to try things.


In all of this, do not discount the fact that the AV CM marriage is not going well in Star. Sooner or later, one is goign to bolt....presumably to Skyteam. Whichever it is will give DL a much better presence in that region...



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlineLDVAviation From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 1095 posts, RR: 5
Reply 24, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 14960 times:

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 23):
In all of this, do not discount the fact that the AV CM marriage is not going well in Star. Sooner or later, one is goign to bolt....presumably to Skyteam. Whichever it is will give DL a much better presence in that region...

Is this just wild speculation? AV just joined Star, at some considerable expense. And, isn't CM partly owned by United (Continental)?


25 davescj : It would be interesting to see if T5 and T6 could merge and have more gates, or a better/more effective use of gates. I do wonder if LAX will ever fin
26 cosyr : Maybe after Terminal 3 is rebuilt...if they ever start that project. I assumed that AS moving to 6 would start things rolling, but so far nothing.
27 MSPNWA : I'm interested to see what the new AA will be able to do at LAX. To me that could be the carrier that provides the strongest challenge to DL's expansi
28 Prost : DL, I imagine, is also trying to support the VS LHR flight as well as its own NRT, SYD, and HND flights. Although I haven't checked the flight timings
29 Deltal1011man : you do know that Delta busted 100 flights a day nearly two years ago right? This isn't new, Delta has been in the 30% growth number at LAX the last 4
30 RyanairGuru : Are you sure? AS and QF codeshare, and indeed AS is a partner in Qantas Frequent Flyer Precisely. CM aren't going anywhere, United won't let them. It
31 Prost : According to wikipedia (I know, I know) In May 2008, Continental Airlines sold its remaining 4.38 million shares of Copa Airlines for $35.75 a share,
32 questions : 1. Are there any known plans for DL to add additional intl routes ex LAX? 2. How might DL's ownership/partnership with VS help it succeed this go arou
33 flyasaguy2005 : If it means anything, I understood what you meant but let's not forget that overall, capacity will be about neutral if not slightly up when it's all
34 Deltal1011man : That doesn't mean AS doesn't also feed the DL flights. SJO are all that is public. (plus the adds to PVR/GDL and CUN) It will be very, very important
35 LAXintl : Largest foreign carriers in enplanements for 2012 were: Qantas - 1,117,785 Air Canada - 939,387 Korean - 666,878 Air NZ - 612,245 AeroMexico - 560,79
36 mia305 : AA will be hard to beat on the LAX-NYC route. With the new cabins and 321's replacing the 762's the frequency will be higher. That said DL has potenti
37 PlanesNTrains : Were this 1993, I might agree with you. But DL+WA was a quarter century ago. A lot has transpired between then and now, so I find it hard to accept t
38 yellowtail : I know lots of folks at both airlines. They hate each other. Both thought the other would blink regarding star and both felt like their respective pa
39 Josh32121 : From a passenger standpoint, DL will be on par if not superior because there are now (or soon will be) a few 767-300's with brand new interiors and f
40 yellowtail : Delta learnt alot last time around at LAX, and while they saw lots of promise they wern't in a position financially (and perhaps leadership wise) to
41 diverdave : Western was getting killed at LAX. That's why they moved their primary hub to SLC. I wonder if 717s will be taking over the short haul flying out of
42 davescj : What about running an all biz jet NYC - LAX? I'm thinking something like MAXJet did Transatlantic or MartinAir runs IAH AMS (an all biz seat 737). Whi
43 Post contains images rwy04lga : Actually, it's the "Quote Selected Text" button. (I know it wasn't yours, your Honor) You clearly haven't tried DL's Business Elite service. Direct-a
44 BigGSFO : With DL stepping up in LAX hopefully this will force AA to as well. Selfishly, as an AS MVP Gold, I get to reap the benefits of such a competition (an
45 questions : Unfortunately no one has been able to figure out how to make money with a premium-only configured aircraft for a sustainable period of time. Closest
46 DeltaMD90 : Honestly, I think that time has passed. AA is getting back on its feet (through Ch11, not necessarily the merger) and I see AA defending its MIA turf
47 YYZAMS : I wonder when they will announce LAX-AMS or CDG. Maybe they will take one off the SEA/PDX - AMS route and but it through LAX-AMS
48 davescj : LAX-CDG DL 8553, operated by AF (AF 65) LAX-AMS DL 9379, operated by KLM (KLM 602). Since these flights are a JV, in essence DL already has them. Unl
49 DeltaMD90 : If DL does successfully expand at LAX, I'm sure the demand would be there and more flights would be added. Wether it would be DL metal or AF/KL metal
50 davescj : I could see it eventually....but..... SFO, SEA, PDX, SLC already have service to one or both airports. Woud LAX get built up before the others? My gu
51 DeltaMD90 : If they want to build up LAX I think they would. LAX has lots of O&D, air travel as a whole generally goes up over time, and LAX may be tapping i
52 yellowtail : Exactly...the airline business is the asset allocation business.
53 LDVAviation : And, where would Delta go? HKG, LHR, etc.? In reply 16, aaway explained what is driving this expansion. It is the AA playbook at LAX. Domestic growth
54 DeltaMD90 : They can add more flights to existing cities, it doesn't have to be a new city every time. I doubt there would be many flights to Europe minus the us
55 davescj : One of the things to consider in adding routes - particularly long haul - where would the metal come from? It is not like there are lots of extra plan
56 LAXintl : Where they? If so why did LAX keep growing also? Below is average daily departure count at year end for WA @ LAX. (source departflights.com) 1982 - 6
57 AeroWesty : That is correct for history's sake. SLC also shifted the hub a bit westward, eliminating some backtracking for intra-mountain west connections.
58 luckyone : China Eastern, a SkyTeam member, is hubbed in Shanghai.
59 davescj : China Southern already has a non stop to CAN. Would other cities in Asia be a good add on? If DL wants to push LAX, you'd think increased flights to
60 LAXintl : To me, the future for DL across the Pacific must involve a JV with KAL and leverage the ICN hub. As far LAX, this means things are very nicely covered
61 BigGSFO : I've thought about this too. I would imagine a JV with KE is key to DL's holistic international growth plan, especially across the Pacific. If this w
62 AADC10 : There cannot be more gates due to the consent decree. T6 is one of the shared airport owned terminals, except for the UA/CO gates, so with AS moving
63 LAXintl : MEL and BNE nonstops are already covered with the alliance with Virgin Australia.
64 mia305 : I agree that DL wont make a try on the LAX-MIA. They already have one daily flight. That's as far as I think they will go. AA has to much of an advant
65 Post contains links diverdave : Apparently that is the true history. Western was bleeding money in the early 80s, and narrowly avoided bankruptcly. http://www.csmonitor.com/1986/091
66 AeroWesty : The last paragraph of this story is interesting. Some 25+ years later, and the major airlines are still grappling with evolving into becoming true na
67 TR1 : Would LAX-AKL be a viable route for Delta? Or is this a market which would be profitable for only one carrier (NZ)? Delta's A330-200s are/were being m
68 LDVAviation : How is that? No Chicago and no Texas network? Even from LAX, still no ORD and DFW, and Boston is only seasonal.
69 AeroWesty : I didn't make the case for that LAX was the end of the line in this effort, but it would put DL closest, in my view. There's certainly more work to d
70 mia305 : DL starting LAX-ORD will be tough being that UA & AA have that covered pretty well. I think DL should try more Mexico, central and south America r
71 AeroWesty : It's my belief that LAX-ORD, plus a few others, will be important for DL to continue to win corporate contracts in the LA market. They don't have to
72 bobnwa : Please define what you mean a true national airline. As I seee it, there never has been a national airline in the US and don't see it as happening in
73 mia305 : While I agree with you that DL has to try LAX-ORD. UA & AA pretty much have those contracts locked up. They have a better chance trying LAX-MIA.
74 Sligo : It seems ORD has always been and always will be a tweener market for DL. They try to find ways to fit in and it sometimes works and sometimes doesnt.
75 AeroWesty : In going back to the CS Monitor article, I misquoted them. The word used was "nationwide" rather than "national". A small point, but I can see how th
76 mia305 : Although AA would defend its turf in JFK & MIA. DL could make it work on both routes. Maybe not as big in MIA with maybe 2 possibly 3 daily flight
77 Lono : diverdave WA was doing quite well after we restructured. We did not move the hub to SLC from LAX ,quite the opposit was the case. WA was in a growth m
78 BigGSFO : Don't forget LHR too once the VS deal is finalized. They already fly LAXMIA. I do think DL could be successful adding ORD, IAH, DFW, & Washington
79 mia305 : I think DL could possibly make MIA-LAX. On another thread its said that 1,000,000 pax travel the route a year not to mention all the connecting traffi
80 BigGSFO : Again, they already operate LAXMIA...
81 cokepopper : If Delta really wants to "Win NY" then they really need to bring back the EWR option.
82 mia305 : What I ment was, couldn't they add a 2 or possibly 3 roundtrips? Or upgage the current one they have.
83 davescj : I agree.....EWR is so much more convenient to Manhatten. Dave
84 Deltal1011man : whoa I missed the part of the PR that said they were done? care to point that out? Oh wait...it didn't happen. You have no idea what will be added fr
85 Post contains images rwy04lga : Yawn! (I corrected your spelling error.)
86 Post contains images JBAirwaysFan : I corrected it for accuracy Actually JFK is very convenient nowadays with Air Train. I've done it from Long Island and it is the easiest thing in the
87 tommy767 : agreed. I think DL should at least "try" to re-start EWR since they have already tried PHL, BDL and IAD on various occasions
88 Post contains images LAXintl : Delta with its partnerships will have most of the Top-20 international O&D markets covered from LAX. So not many holes to plug really. 1. Seoul -
89 compensateme : Cancun is serviced seasonally. When I passed through LAX shortly before Christmas, DL cut $1300 IDBC checks out to eight passengers on that flight.
90 mayor : Just out of curiousity, what happened with the deal with Vietnam Airlines?
91 mia305 : That's impressive. What routes could they start or increase frequency to domestically
92 Deltal1011man : HKG and PEK (with LHR now covered) are the two biggest holes for DL/SkyTeam at LAX. Yes but both are less than daily IIRC. It has been the rumor for
93 Post contains links LAXintl : Yeah well I kinda figured it comes and goes as the winds blow at DL. VN can serve the US via Taiwan, Korea or Japan(except Tokyo). Last year the CEO
94 Deltal1011man : It comes and goes. (as does GDL/PVR) VN is in SkyTeam but doesn't fly LAX-SGN And China in general. Hell Asia in general outside of Japan. but times
95 LDVAviation : Still waiting on ORD, DCA/IAD, DFW, and Boston (year-round). Seems like Delta is just nibbling at the edges of the two more established network airli
96 Deltal1011man : Rome wasn't built in a day. Delta, unlikely American, is trying to build an airline that doesn't have to live off of employee's being at the very bot
97 RWA380 : The way I see it is, LAX has no super dominant carrier like DFW, ATL, MIA, DTW or SFO hubs have. Yes there are several carriers with a decent sized op
98 Post contains images jetlanta : It seems to me that a lot of folks are far too caught up in a.net narrative of the past few years to recognize the basic truth here. No one carrier,
99 LAXintl : How about seats Southwest and Virgin America @ LAX. Southwest especially is a big factor in LA being the largest airline in California, and now later
100 mpdpilot : That isn't totally fair, DL will always be at a disadvantage in DFW, ORD, IAD, DCA, PHL, and CLT. AA, UA, and US have hubs in those airports. Look at
101 BigGSFO : DL could make Chicago, Dallas, Houston, DC work with a limited but competitive schedule. They might not be the most lucrative routes but int he long r
102 mayor : Exactly..........how do UA and AA do LAX-DTW/MSP/ATL/SLC? That would be a similar comparison, but those in the UA/AA camp would say it wasn't a fair
103 LAXintl : Actually I don't believe this is the focus at all. At the opening event of the new LAX SkyClub I got to chat with one of the sales executives. His po
104 DeltaMD90 : With so many entrenched carriers, I think DL needs to expand smartly and slowly before it can start really taking on AA, UA, or WN. Then again, these
105 BigGSFO : Fascinating insight. Thanks.
106 LAXSTEW : Maybe in the short-term, but I wouldn't think DL would bother sponsoring the likes of Staples Center, Kings, Lakers, Grammy's, etc. if there wasn't a
107 LDVAviation : If Delta had the corporate contracts or traffic flows from its international codeshare partners, those routes and those frequencies would already exi
108 Post contains links yellowtail : If Anyone is doubting DLs plan at LAX.... http://www.usatoday.com/story/todayi...TheSky+(Travel+-+Today+In+the+Sky)
109 LDVAviation : Fair comparison. Last I checked, from LAX, UA and AA do LAT-DTW/MSP/ATL with one-stop through their hubs at ORD/IAH/DFW. Only SLC is a nonstop for bo
110 LAXintl : But need to remember - place like ORD, DFW are much larger local market then the DL hubs of ATL, DTW or MSP. In other words its not that critical for
111 Post contains links jetlanta : Goodness. I'm not sure why this is so difficult. Not one of these carriers offers a comprehensive product at LAX. This market is huge and the largest
112 RyanairGuru : I've heard a similar rumor from the Australian end. The 77W is, arguably, too big for VA to build critical mass in MEL and BNE, and therefore the sma
113 LDVAviation : Excellent point. Interesting, because AA and UA still have the bulk of the entertainment industry contracts. And, they don't fly to Atlanta nonstop.
114 tommy767 : A lot of "below the line" is definitely not premium revenue. I worked in a "below the line" job in LA and it was freelance and while I was a silver o
115 mayor : Whether or not DL can do it in LAX, it's amazing to me that they're even in the mix, considering that UA and AA have been in the LAX-ORD/NYC market fo
116 sxf24 : Utter hogwash.
117 mpdpilot : Well your first comment is a which comes first, if they had the routes they could get the contracts and if they had the contracts they could get the
118 FlyASAGuy2005 : Highly doubtful. For one, the 739s will be back filling a lot of the 57' capacity that will be drawn down over the next few years. Two. 25 frames are
119 LDVAviation : This is the conundrum Delta faces in the LA market. What company with offices in the LA, DFW, Chicago, and DC area would pick Delta over United and A
120 toobz : Quoting LAX ORD - 3667 DFW - 2730 ATL - 2068 DTW - 1491 MSP - 1360 But how many airlines partake in the % of ORD and DFW compared to ATL, DTW and MSP
121 sxf24 : People seem to operate under the impression most companies have exclusive contracts with one airline. They don't. You get a larger share of business w
122 BCEaglesCO757 : When it all comes down to it,for an airline that has such a great network,Delta spends a lot of time trying to build up in other peoples hubs or backy
123 Post contains images mayor : That's what the marketing department is for, both the local one in LA and marketing at the GO in ATL, to find those customers and try and get those c
124 AeroWesty : No airline has had a 'backyard' since deregulation was ushered in in 1978. Not every customer wants to connect. All of the remaining legacy airlines
125 mayor : Much like what WN, everyone's PERFECT airline has done at ATL? It's called growth. No matter how many hubs you have or where they're at, there are go
126 BCEaglesCO757 : No airline has had a 'backyard' since deregulation was ushered in in 1978. Not every customer wants to connect. I understand that I'm not saying its
127 AeroWesty : If you're in Seattle and want to fly to Sydney, DL either has to put you onto a codeshare with AS, another airline, or via SLC to get you to the LAX
128 BCEaglesCO757 : I don't think I can compare DL to WN when it comes WN in ATL. Point to Point is what WN does and has done from day one. I don't think anyone will mist
129 mayor : So, how does DL use their hub network to make traffic out of LAX work? LAX-ORD is probably already connecting thru SLC.....the same with LAX-BOS. The
130 Prost : When its all said and done, DL provided a large percentage of the profits the air lines in the United States had in 2012. Not everything is going to b
131 Post contains images mayor : Unless you're going thru MDW, of course. What I was saying is that WN is trying to establish themselves in DL's "backyard", ATL. What seems okay for
132 jetlanta : I pretty much completely disagree with everything you say, but lets just assume you are correct and Delta has trouble in these "trophy" markets you m
133 davescj : The goal is to make money, no? Since money can be made on the route, by definition, any carrier who can will try and make money on it. LAX- as pointed
134 questions : Only one flight a day to HKG? Is that from NRT or mainland US? I thought NW had a larger presence in HKG. What do you mean "outfit them?" Assign the
135 rwy04lga : HKG is now served only by a connection from NRT, where NW had a huge hub. DL maintains that hub.
136 N839MH : For what it's worth, I'll jump in here. For instance here in DFW, there are so many loyal fliers with Delta that won't fly AA to the west coast on the
137 questions : Thanks. But didn't NW have more flights to HKG, e.g., SEA-HKG?
138 compensateme : No. Their sole HKG flight was from NRT; MSP was tried unsuccessfully in the mid-1990s.
139 Post contains links LAXintl : Yes NW certanly had a SEA-HKG for quite a few years. They also briefly tried MSP-HKG. Plus at one time had Seoul-HKG tag as well http://www.airliners.
140 BigGSFO : UA operated this for awhile too - before they acquired the Pacific operations from Pan Am. IIRC, their initial TPAC service prior to Pan Am was SEA a
141 LDVAviation : Here's the problem with your line of reasoning? If that is all well and good, you know Delta's "virtual monopoly control of ATL, DTW, and MSP", then
142 compensateme : Because revenue growth is an important metric among publicly traded companies? You're more likely to achieve larger revenue growth among a new market
143 rwy04lga : Is that a question?? Because Delta didn't inherit LHR routes/slots and 'was' primarily an east coast airline. LAX and LHR are just 2 pieces left to f
144 LDVAviation : Revenue growth? As if Walmart sold everything in its stores for a profit? As if the rational for every route Delta flew was profit? It is an internet
145 SESGDL : Funny that you "conveniently" forgot to mention that DTW was recently canceled after being tried unsuccessfully. In addition NW also flew SEA-HKG as
146 compensateme : No, I did not. He was asking about legacy NW routes; NW never operated DTW-HKG. Troll.
147 compensateme : Yes, revenue growth (although I amended my posting / changed my wording before you responded). Do you have anything to support that LAX is a money-lo
148 Post contains links AeroWesty : I remember it as United getting their SPs from PanAm. Backed up by this rather ironic link: Why Did SEA-HKG-SEA Fail? (by United Airline Sep 1 2004 i
149 rwy04lga : Obviously not you. Perhaps that's why you're not taken seriously. Including your professed profession as a professor.
150 mah4546 : Yeah, ummm, no. Atlanta has its importance, but its not Nashville, and its certainly not Miami (which two studios recently rolled into its NYC 3-clas
151 compensateme : You shouldn't be laughing because Atlanta's position in the entertainment industry continues to quietly grow. Atlanta's problem has been that much of
152 SESGDL : Once again your responses are devoid of facts and incredibly condescending. Atlanta has grown by leaps and bounds and the number of production compan
153 Post contains images mayor : Because, "professor" (and even YOU should realize this) that grammar and punctuation make a difference in how things are interpreted, whether they ar
154 LAXintl : Guys, outside of the Atlanta hip-hop/rap scene and companies like CNN/Turner being based there, the remainder of the entertainment industry is very th
155 compensateme : No disagreement, but my comments were in reference toward Tyler Perry as well as in-house Turner productions. If they continue success, both would li
156 mpdpilot : Thats kind of what I am saying. They are getting rid of 757's and replacing them with 739s. Why not use the first 739s as an opportunity to fashion t
157 Post contains images mayor : Well, MIA DOES have a prominent place in A&E's "First 48" programming.....
158 mah4546 : LA and NYC are the Alphas, Miami and Nashville are the Betas, and that's how it goes. D.C. is probably the next most important thanks to Discovery, wh
159 Post contains links RWA380 : You are indeed correct that UA's first International route (except trans border flights to Canada) was ORD-SEA/PDX-NRT it operated 6x weekly via SEA
160 Post contains images OA412 : As you mentioned, a lot of this isn't really new, just expansion and what not. DL has held its own vis-a-vis its LAX expansion over the last few year
161 FlyASAGuy2005 : Exactly. At the end of the day, DL made more money than all of them last year... It seems to me that DL is serious about boosting revenue by way of i
162 jetlanta : So basically, what you are saying is that now that that the AA and UA "sleeping giants" are awakening, Delta is screwed because it isn't the largest
163 Post contains images ocracoke : I simply don't understand why anyone wouldn't want DL to succeed in these new routes out of LAX. If nothing else, than to preserve their own precious
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