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TK To Lease 7 WB Aircraft Arriving May.  
User currently offlineTK787 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4424 posts, RR: 12
Posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 9949 times:

I guess we can say that it is official, coming from the Chairman of the Board Hamdi Topcu, from this Turkish article;
http://www.airporthaber.com/havacili...topcu-2003te-pilotlar-issizdi.html
He says 7 WB aircraft are leased and joining the fleet starting May.
This is on top of an order of 20 x 77Ws (first 3 arrive in 2014), 22 x 333s + 3 options, ( first 2 x 333s arrive this year, 5 more in 2014)
We had a thread earlier that suggested the 7 could be 777s, but that thread is locked,
Turkish Airlines To Lease 7x 777 (by tkfan Dec 22 2012 in Civil Aviation)
and this new information doesn't specify what type those 7 frames are.
So let the speculation begin; 332/333/77W/77L?

37 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinescouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3389 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 9938 times:

A380, 748 perhaps 

User currently offlineJU068 From Vanuatu, joined Aug 2009, 2605 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 9937 times:
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Would it make sense for TK to order the B748? That is having in mind their current fleet structure.

[Edited 2013-03-07 06:40:45]

User currently offlineTK787 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4424 posts, RR: 12
Reply 3, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 9785 times:

Not an order for new aircraft, since arriving in couple of months;
From the archived thread;
Post by karan69;
As per some sources a 4 aircraft deal has been signed with 9W , these will be the Current aircraft which are with TG which will go to TK as their leases expire

Karan


User currently offlinerutankrd From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 2985 posts, RR: 7
Reply 4, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 9457 times:
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Quoting TK787 (Reply 3):
As per some sources a 4 aircraft deal has been signed with 9W , these will be the Current aircraft which are with TG which will go to TK as their leases expire

Back to the future then !

Good question is will they restore the first class offering as per previous 9W leases ?


User currently offlineTK787 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4424 posts, RR: 12
Reply 5, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 9376 times:

Quoting rutankrd (Reply 4):
will they restore the first class offering as per previous 9W leases ?

Great question.
I have no idea. I for one would like to blow some miles on those F suites. But for fleet commonality, it is down the drain again. I am sure this is for stop gap measure and might be wet-lease, might be as short as 18 month long.


User currently offlineHB-IWC From Indonesia, joined Sep 2000, 4503 posts, RR: 72
Reply 6, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 8519 times:

As I also mentioned in the other thread, the 9W B77Ws are alsmost certainly involved in this deal. Five aircraft are currently on lease with TG and will gradually return as TG is in the process of receiving its own B77Ws. Some of these aircraft have already been with TK before as TC-JJA/B/C/D.

Whether TK again takes these 4 aircraft, or all 5 that are now with TK or even 7 of the 10-strong 9W B77W fleet remains to be seen, but 9W is in the process of receiving A333 aircraft and could offload up to 7 B77W aircraft and use the remaining three aircraft for its 3 daily LHR rotations. That may not cover for any down time, but then 9W has last week announced that one out of 21 weekly LHR rotations will operate with A333, so the airline may well be preparing to transfer 7 B77Ws to TK.

If these are indeed the aircraft we are talking about, I doubt that TK will reinstate the First Class after that experiment failed last time around. I feel the 8 suites will be used as J to make for a 38-seat business class cabin.


User currently offline4engines4lnghll From United States of America, joined Aug 2010, 64 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 7075 times:

Off topic here, but is TK looking at DFW?


4engines4lnghll
User currently offlineGCT64 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2007, 1389 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 6822 times:

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 6):
9W has last week announced that one out of 21 weekly LHR rotations will operate with A333

This week (Wednesday) VT-JWT A333 operated JAI120/JAI119 into LHR.



Flown in: A30B,A306,A310,A319,A320,A321,A332,A333,A343,A346,BA11,BU31,B190, B461,B462,B463,(..50 types..),VC10,WESX
User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11645 posts, RR: 60
Reply 9, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 6784 times:

I know they have the routes to fly them on, but for now I still wonder where on Earth they plan to park them all at IST.


Dan  



...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
User currently offlinena From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10709 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 6718 times:

Likely shortterm leases to cover the time until the own 77Ws arrive then. I wonder why Jet Aw isnt selling part of their 77W fleet if they dont need them.

User currently offlineTK787 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4424 posts, RR: 12
Reply 11, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 6345 times:

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 6):
I doubt that TK will reinstate the First Class after that experiment failed last time around. I feel the 8 suites will be used as J to make for a 38-seat business class cabin.

Do you mean taking those 1 ton each F seats to make room for 38J seats for the short time TK will be leasing these aircraft?
Knowing TK, they wouldn't spend the time or the money and use them as they are on routes like JFK, LAX where TK might find F pax.


User currently offlineHB-IWC From Indonesia, joined Sep 2000, 4503 posts, RR: 72
Reply 12, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 5958 times:

Quoting TK787 (Reply 11):
Do you mean taking those 1 ton each F seats to make room for 38J seats for the short time TK will be leasing these aircraft?

No, I mean selling the 8 F suites as J, thereby making a 38-seat J cabin, as there are also 30 J-seats in those aircraft.


User currently offlineTK787 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4424 posts, RR: 12
Reply 13, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 5862 times:

Quoting 4engines4lnghll (Reply 7):
Off topic here, but is TK looking at DFW?

I doubt that. Houston starts next month; Boston and SFO might be next for N.America.


User currently offlinejreuschl From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 545 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5691 times:

I know a 2nd flight has been rumored once in a while for ORD. Would they upgrade it to a 77W?

User currently offlineleftyboarder From Turkey, joined Apr 2008, 693 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5615 times:

Quoting jreuschl (Reply 14):

I know a 2nd flight has been rumored once in a while for ORD. Would they upgrade it to a 77W?

With almost no feed from UA at ORD, it makes little sense to do so. They are better off starting DTW if they want more feed from Midwest.


User currently offlineTK787 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4424 posts, RR: 12
Reply 16, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5584 times:

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 12):
No, I mean selling the 8 F suites as J, thereby making a 38-seat J cabin, as there are also 30 J-seats in those aircraft.

You mean 8 people get the Suite, 30 people get the herringbone seat and ALL this will be J. That is not fair.
8 Suites J, 30 seats will become Comfort, as shown;
http://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Tur...kish_Airlines_Boeing_777-300ER.php

Quoting jreuschl (Reply 14):
I know a 2nd flight has been rumored once in a while for ORD. Would they upgrade it to a 77W?

IST-ORD is already a daily 77W flight.
AFAIK this is the first I hear a second flight to ORD. I was under the impression that ORD flights are not that profitable compared to JFK or LAX or YYZ.


User currently offlineKL911 From Czech Republic, joined Jul 2003, 5133 posts, RR: 12
Reply 17, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5321 times:

Quoting leftyboarder (Reply 15):
With almost no feed from UA at ORD, it makes little sense to do so.

Huh? Isn't UA massive in ORD? I would think they have plenty of feed.


User currently offlineleftyboarder From Turkey, joined Apr 2008, 693 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 5158 times:

Quoting KL911 (Reply 17):
Huh? Isn't UA massive in ORD? I would think they have plenty of feed.

Except UA hasn't been the most cooperative partner for TK so far. Even AC offers more codeshares via YYZ to US cities to TK.


User currently offlineJU068 From Vanuatu, joined Aug 2009, 2605 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 4959 times:
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Quoting leftyboarder (Reply 18):

But doesn't Turkish Airlines have a network large enough to sustain a second daily flight without United's codeshare?


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25157 posts, RR: 46
Reply 20, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 4890 times:

Quoting TK787 (Reply 16):
IST-ORD is already a daily 77W flight.

ORD sees the A330/A340 not 777.

Only US cities with the 77W currently are JFK and LAX. ORD and IAD are A330/340 markets.

Quoting leftyboarder (Reply 18):
Except UA hasn't been the most cooperative partner for TK so far. Even AC offers more codeshares via YYZ to US cities to TK.

  

TK also made a broad deal with JetBlue and a smaller one with Virgin America.

United is too wrapped up with its A++ JV then to release seats at discount to TK.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineHB-IWC From Indonesia, joined Sep 2000, 4503 posts, RR: 72
Reply 21, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 4877 times:

Quoting TK787 (Reply 16):
You mean 8 people get the Suite, 30 people get the herringbone seat and ALL this will be J. That is not fair.
8 Suites J, 30 seats will become Comfort, as shown

No way TK is going to sell only 8 J seats on a longhaul aircraft, that is simply not enough, and since I also very much doubt that a short lived reintroduction of the First Class is in order, I am sticking to my position that it will be a 38 J cabin in which 8 lucky passengers will end up in a suite.


User currently offlineTK787 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4424 posts, RR: 12
Reply 22, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 4834 times:

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 21):
I am sticking to my position that it will be a 38 J cabin in which 8 lucky passengers will end up in a suite.

I hope you are not right. Since they might have those flights to JFK and I will not have the option to fly Comfort.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 20):
ORD sees the A330/A340 not 777.

LAXintl, again my fault. I even posted it after double checking TK17 stats, thinking TK17 is ORD. Sometimes in the morning the brain does weird things 


User currently offlineMeCe From Turkey, joined Oct 2009, 170 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 4692 times:

Quoting TK787 (Reply 16):



8 seat j is not possible I guess. They will/should find a way not to introduce F class again. My vote goes removing all suites and put herringbone seats that area and have 2 class 777. This config works much better on mid haul flights too.


User currently offlineAAMDanny From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2008, 354 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 4386 times:

Does TK still have a A340 fleet? Would the ex-VS A346's be a good stop gap till 773ER's arrive?

User currently offlineTK787 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4424 posts, RR: 12
Reply 25, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 4381 times:

Quoting AAMDanny (Reply 24):

TK has 7 x 343s.
TK doesn't need the range of the 346 and when so many 332s avail, I doubt that.
Then again, if the price is right, who knows.


User currently offlinebehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4772 posts, RR: 43
Reply 26, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 4151 times:

Quoting TK787 (Reply 16):
You mean 8 people get the Suite, 30 people get the herringbone seat and ALL this will be J. That is not fair.
8 Suites J, 30 seats will become Comfort, as shown;

nopes...what should happen logically is that 8 pax paying a full J class level published fare will be eligible to sit in these 8 first class seats where as the remaining business class pax paying lower fares booked in C / D / Z / I classes etc will be seated in the normal business class cabin.

this is what Gulf Air too does on board its A332s which operate as 8F/24J in the front but sold as 32J with the 8 pax seated up front only if they paid the J class inventory level fare or if there are less than 8 pax on board in the premium cabin, then all the pax get treated to the front seats.


User currently offlineCarfield From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1918 posts, RR: 9
Reply 27, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 4207 times:

First, TG has been very rough with those 77Ws leased from Jet Airways. Those planes need some major fix or "cleanup" before putting in use by any airlines in the world. I flew those 77Ws last year and you could see the chips in the first class suite door, and some of the doors were not working. The locking mechanism was no longer working. I guess ideally, Thai Airways will have to do some work before returning them, but TK needs to perhaps check more carefully this time before receiving them.

Second, TK can perhaps sell those eight seats as a premium business section. Sort of like SAS's old concept of sleepers, or Virgin Australia's Row 5 in 77Ws (snooze zone)... If the surcharge is reasonable, I am sure people will pay for them. Or else, they can just reserve the section for its Elite Plus or Elite members (TK's top tiers frequent flyers). This will make the most sense especially for a short term lease. Anyway, TK has to be really careful because last minute aircraft substitution can be an issue, regarding refund and reseating.

Either way, I much prefer those herringbone seats than TK's current business class seats. I like direct aisle access and 9W's version is not too bad.

I sincerely hope a new business class design is on its way with the new batch of 77Ws, and we will possibly find out the fate of "Comfort Class," Turkish Airlines' Premium Economy cabin.

Carfield


User currently offlineMeCe From Turkey, joined Oct 2009, 170 posts, RR: 0
Reply 28, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 3801 times:

Quoting Carfield (Reply 27):
If the surcharge is reasonable, I am sure people will pay for them. Or else, they can just reserve the section for its Elite Plus or Elite members (TK's top tiers frequent flyers). This will make the most sense especially for a short term lease




This is best way for a short lease but I doubt surcharge will be reasonable. AFAIK this suites weighs more than 700 kg, it is not space only but also weight. Compare with the double business seat is around 100-150 kg it is much more heavier for paid price. Hope they will solve this with a practical way for everyone.


User currently offlineTdan From United States of America, joined Nov 2011, 429 posts, RR: 3
Reply 29, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 3731 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 20):
Quoting leftyboarder (Reply 18):
Except UA hasn't been the most cooperative partner for TK so far. Even AC offers more codeshares via YYZ to US cities to TK.



TK also made a broad deal with JetBlue and a smaller one with Virgin America.

United is too wrapped up with its A++ JV then to release seats at discount to TK.

         Even among the A++ partners, UA isn't the best at cooperating. They play the "we're the largest airline in the world so you should do what we want" card WAY too often. It's actually quite funny when you think that LH is the carrier at the other end of the table and they back down from no one. Some Star carriers like TK, SQ and NZ won't put up with UA's attempt at bullying and instead establish relationships with other carriers for feed.



We will ride this thunderbird, silver shadows on the earth, a thousand leagues away our land of birth... -Captain Bruce
User currently offlinekaran69 From India, joined Oct 2004, 2887 posts, RR: 18
Reply 30, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3448 times:

Quoting TK787 (Reply 3):
Not an order for new aircraft, since arriving in couple of months;
From the archived thread;
Post by karan69;
As per some sources a 4 aircraft deal has been signed with 9W , these will be the Current aircraft which are with TG which will go to TK as their leases expire

Hi Guys,

Altough the deal was as good as confirmed when i mentioned it previously, but the EY and Jet talks changed the whole situation,

A couple of things doing the rounds, yoll draw your own conclusions
If the deal went through,
EY wanted those 777s for themselves, for that to happen the TK deal had to be put on the back burner
EY wanted to wetlease 2 for GRU flights , have 9W shift the EWR flight via AUH instead of BRU, and lease some of their 777s to enhance their regular operations
Talks between the 2 ofcourse hit a standstill due to a number of reasons,
So Jet got back on the leasing market, but then again the recent purchase of Jets LHR slots by EY leaves a lot of things unclear

Just sharing what i have heard

Karan


User currently offlineTK787 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4424 posts, RR: 12
Reply 31, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3263 times:

Quoting karan69 (Reply 30):
EY wanted those 777s for themselves, for that to happen the TK deal had to be put on the back burner

Thanks for the update.
Mmmmmmm. Not sure what this means, but if TK told the press they have 7 widebodies starting to arrive in May, maybe some other frames/types?


User currently offlinesunrisevalley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 4954 posts, RR: 5
Reply 32, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3248 times:

Quoting Carfield (Reply 27):
I flew those 77Ws last year and you could see the chips in the first class suite door, and some of the doors were not working. The locking mechanism was no longer working. I guess ideally,

How about all the deficiencies you cannot see   


User currently offlinekaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12435 posts, RR: 37
Reply 33, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2828 times:

There was mention on another site of some regulatory issues for TK regarding the ex-9W 777s; apparently neither the Americans nor the Japanese would allow the wet leased aircraft into their airspace; any particular reason for this? Of course, it still leaves plenty of destinations for these aircraft to serve, but doesn't help flexibility.

Certainly, the upcoming EY deal with 9W seems to have put the kibosh on things for now; it's probably a lesson to TK not to make announcements until the contract has been signed on the dotted line. Can't think where TK will be able to pick up 77Ws at such short notice, though no doubt Boeing will do its best to help.

I realise that the standard (i.e. non-ER) 773 would not be ideal, but with a range of 6,000nm, it could (on paper) do YYZ and JFK, as well as BKK, HKG and Chinese destinations. If SQ hasn't committed all of its 773s to Transaero, might this be a possible source?


User currently offlinenethkt From Thailand, joined Apr 2001, 1081 posts, RR: 3
Reply 34, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 2532 times:

Why are we focusing on only B777s? How about A343s or A330s?

Since EK is getting more 77Ws and 380s they will get rid of 332s and 343s, could this be the option?
Not to mention CX's 343s and older 333s!

Would really love to see TK livery on A380 or B787!



Let's just blame it on yields.
User currently online7BOEING7 From United States of America, joined Oct 2012, 1551 posts, RR: 8
Reply 35, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 2424 times:

It says "starting" in May, it doesn't say they will all show up in May. Why not new airplanes, GECAS has several 77W's on order and THY has leased 77W's from them before. Guess we won't know until May.

User currently offlineTK787 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4424 posts, RR: 12
Reply 36, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 2352 times:

Also, where does TK planning on using this 15% increase in WB capacity.
AFAIK, only Houston is announced for April, and all 4 China destinations to go daily soon.
Could it be for a second daily IST-LAX?
Or give it try with SFO, BOS, Havana, Caracas, YUL, MEX??


User currently offlineMeCe From Turkey, joined Oct 2009, 170 posts, RR: 0
Reply 37, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 2207 times:

Quoting TK787 (Reply 36):
Also, where does TK planning on using this 15% increase in WB capacity.
AFAIK, only Houston is announced for April, and all 4 China destinations to go daily soon.
Could it be for a second daily IST-LAX?
Or give it try with SFO, BOS, Havana, Caracas, YUL, MEX??

Maybe ORD get 777, or as you mentioned second daily LAX. 777s are used EU flights in summer, w/o addition new frames schedule will be very tight and may collapse only one failure. Additionaly C checks performing one by one now sometimes 2 planes missing several days for schduled maintenance.


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