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A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8  
User currently offlineiowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4391 posts, RR: 6
Posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 88082 times:
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Due to length of part 7, please continue part 8 here if so desired.

Previous thread: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 7 (by Luxair747SP Jan 21 2013 in Civil Aviation)


Next flights: WN DSM-LAS-PHX, US PHX-SJD. Return: US SJD-PHX, WN PHX-MDW-DSM
262 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently online817Dreamliiner From Montserrat, joined Jul 2008, 2321 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 87743 times:

First Photo in the database:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Langenfeld - hummelfX




Reality be Rent. Synapse, break! Vanishment, This World!
User currently offlineSemaex From Germany, joined Nov 2009, 823 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 87115 times:

Quoting 817Dreamliiner (Reply 1):

That's an incredible wingtip design. This perspective really show the unique curvature.

One question though: Why does the vertical stabilizer not have such a smooth roundout to the fuselage than, for example, the A330? Does that not increase the parasite drag a lot?



// You know you're an aviation enthusiast when you look at your neighbour's cars and think about fleet commonality.
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 11367 posts, RR: 33
Reply 3, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 87079 times:

I have a question. There are 5 spots at station 18:

http://oi45.tinypic.com/5bocd4.jpg

And 7 hangars at station 20:

http://oi47.tinypic.com/2i7o6eb.jpg

At some point in time these places will handle 10x A330 and 10x A350 aircraft per month. Airbus is building a second A350 FAL right now but no word on extra places at station 18 nor station 20. Are 5x station 18 and 7x station 20 spots really enough to support the assembly of 20 aircraft a month?



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlinestarbucks From Netherlands, joined Feb 2013, 708 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 87010 times:

Quoting Semaex (Reply 2):
One question though: Why does the vertical stabilizer not have such a smooth roundout to the fuselage than, for example, the A330? Does that not increase the parasite drag a lot?

Well, the A380 has more or less the same tail design at the VTP/fuselage meeting point..


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © T.Laurent



So I guess the design works  Smile

[Edited 2013-03-08 05:21:01]


A350 logbook: http://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AlVgPnmHLOovdFdzbVlyQzhYNDhCb1VFN1RkYXkwV3c&output=html
User currently offlineinfiniti329 From United States of America, joined Jul 2012, 652 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 85899 times:

Quoting Semaex (Reply 2):
That's an incredible wingtip design. This perspective really show the unique curvature.

Now those are what I call sharklets


User currently offlinePugman211 From UK - England, joined Dec 2012, 107 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 85310 times:
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Quoting infiniti329 (Reply 5):
Quoting Semaex (Reply 2):
That's an incredible wingtip design. This perspective really show the unique curvature.

Now those are what I call sharklets

Agreed!!


User currently onlinefrancoflier From France, joined Oct 2001, 3746 posts, RR: 11
Reply 7, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 84879 times:

Quoting Semaex (Reply 2):
Why does the vertical stabilizer not have such a smooth roundout to the fuselage than, for example, the A330?

There is a rounded shape at the base of the fin. It doesn't necessarily need to be proportional to the size of the fin.
And it decreases the wetted area that way.



Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit posting...
User currently offlinerwood89 From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2012, 6 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 84526 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 3):
I have a question. There are 5 spots at station 18:

and 7 hangars at station 20:

At some point in time these places will handle 10x A330 and 10x A350 aircraft per month. Airbus is building a second A350 FAL right now but no word on extra places at station 18 nor station 20. Are 5x station 18 and 7x station 20 spots really enough to support the assembly of 20 aircraft a month?


If you can streamline production and improve it's leaness then yeah, make more with less.

Eventually the A330 will be completely replaced by the A350, although there's no sight of this yet, I believe once the A350 is flying and production matures, there won't be as much demand for the A330 and it will slowly phase out. There will be plenty of young second hand frames available perhaps too because of the increased production rate now.


User currently offlineER757 From Cayman Islands, joined May 2005, 2511 posts, RR: 7
Reply 9, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 84092 times:

Quoting infiniti329 (Reply 5):
Quoting Semaex (Reply 2):
That's an incredible wingtip design. This perspective really show the unique curvature.

Now those are what I call sharklets

Yeah - the A350 has instantly risen to near the top of my favorite looking aircraft with those babies!  


User currently offlineTeamDA From Norway, joined Mar 2008, 37 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 83585 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 3):
And 7 hangars at station 20:

To my knowledge (from the Taxiway panoramic tours and other sources) there are actually 9 station 20 hangers. Which I have labelled in red 20A-20I.

Airbus Postes


They've more or less finished a new hanger next to 20A, but I don't think it is in use yet.
In addition the big hanger C63 can get at least 3 A330s inside, I have seen frames come out of Poste 35A/B and go straight in there, frames go from stations 18 in there and from stations 20. A330s can also end up in C63 after a test flight. So although I don't count it in the 9 stations 20 at present this hanger provides extra capacity.

The area I have marked with 1 (Blue) is now a location that you can often see A330s in a similar state to stations 18. Therefore you could also consider that as extra capacity, especially after they have come out of stations 30.

Early this month I realised that it looks like a new hanger is being built in the area marked 2 (Blue) next to the hanger traditionally used by the test flight A380s.

There is one hanger I have marked with Z (Blue) , that I don't know what it has used for. It looks like a paint hall (other 2 are marked with PH) , but i have also seen A320s and 330s in there receiving attention.

Finally there is also the opportunity to do some work off site. B-LAZ (A330 msn 1387) is a recent example as it spent more than two weeks away from TLS between it's first and second flight. I think at Châteauroux and came back painted and I assume with its cabin installed.

What is happening on the A350 site, I don't know. It is still one big building site on one side still and the tours don't get near it. It is also built in such a way that external views are very limited.


User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 11367 posts, RR: 33
Reply 11, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 83122 times:

Now that's some useful information! Thank you. There is almost nothing to find on the internet about the A330 final assembly buildings.

Quote:
They've more or less finished a new hanger next to 20A, but I don't think it is in use yet.
In addition the big hanger C63 can get at least 3 A330s inside, I have seen frames come out of Poste 35A/B and go straight in there, frames go from stations 18 in there and from stations 20. A330s can also end up in C63 after a test flight. So although I don't count it in the 9 stations 20 at present this hanger provides extra capacity.

It's probably a hanger with enough space to do some (specific customer?) things that are not part of the normal assembly process.

Quote:
The area I have marked with 1 (Blue) is now a location that you can often see A330s in a similar state to stations 18. Therefore you could also consider that as extra capacity, especially after they have come out of stations 30.

Ah, there are more places for outdoor ground tests. Good to know.

There is still one unknown building, do you know its purpose?

http://oi47.tinypic.com/vpbx34.jpg

1 = A330 wing join
2 = A330 fuselage join
3 = A330 system installation
? = ??

The steel on the roof indicates that there are cranes inside so it must be some kind of assembly building.

[Edited 2013-03-08 11:52:36]


Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineTeamDA From Norway, joined Mar 2008, 37 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 82421 times:

Your latest pic takes me back a few years when Taxiway ran a tour of the A330/340 line.

The area with the question mark is the Beluga unpacking area. They go in nose first here where there is some equipment to empty them.

Area 1 as you say is where the wings are joined to the middle fuselage section. This is know as Poste 40A

Area 2 has two areas for assembling the aircraft. Marked as Poste 35A (bottom of pic) and Poste 35B

Area 3 is then Poste 30D - Poste 30A from left to right.

The old tour had a visitors gallery between poste 30A and 35A. So if you have seen any pictures of 4 A330s on the line it is probably taken from here.


User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 11367 posts, RR: 33
Reply 13, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 82325 times:

Quoting TeamDA (Reply 12):
The old tour had a visitors gallery between poste 30A and 35A. So if you have seen any pictures of 4 A330s on the line it is probably taken from here.

Like this one: http://www.flickr.com/photos/aviaciondigital/5412855073/ ?



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineAirPacific747 From Denmark, joined May 2008, 2389 posts, RR: 21
Reply 14, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 81837 times:

Quoting ER757 (Reply 9):
Yeah - the A350 has instantly risen to near the top of my favorite looking aircraft with those babies!

Really? I don't think they fit with the rest of the wing design. To me, they somehow look like something that was mounted on an already existing design, like the 767 winglets.


User currently offlineIndianicWorld From Australia, joined Jun 2001, 2957 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 80789 times:

Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 14):
Really? I don't think they fit with the rest of the wing design. To me, they somehow look like something that was mounted on an already existing design, like the 767 winglets.

I can see where you are coming from, but they look so damn good at the same time  

Certainly adds some interest and something distinctive to the aircraft.


User currently offlinea380900 From France, joined Dec 2003, 1110 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 80772 times:

Quoting 817Dreamliiner (Reply 1):
First Photo in the database:

Are the engines mounted? One cannot say from the pic but I guess at the point where the plane is spending time outside, they must be on. No?


User currently offlineBoeingVista From Australia, joined Jan 2009, 1576 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 80655 times:

Quoting a380900 (Reply 16):
Are the engines mounted? One cannot say from the pic but I guess at the point where the plane is spending time outside, they must be on. No?

Nope, the engines will not be mounted until after she has been to the paint shop.



BV
User currently offlineAirPacific747 From Denmark, joined May 2008, 2389 posts, RR: 21
Reply 18, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 80396 times:

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 15):
I can see where you are coming from, but they look so damn good at the same time  

Certainly adds some interest and something distinctive to the aircraft.

This is also true.. I will wait with final verdict till I see the whole aircraft assembled and painted  


User currently online817Dreamliiner From Montserrat, joined Jul 2008, 2321 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 80281 times:

Ive got a question though, the A350 is supposed to have a composite structure, but why is it outside unpainted?? Shouldn't it be covered to the protect the surfaces from the UV rays? Or is it already protected in some other way like a protective coating being applied already?


Reality be Rent. Synapse, break! Vanishment, This World!
User currently offlinestarbucks From Netherlands, joined Feb 2013, 708 posts, RR: 6
Reply 20, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 80006 times:

So she's been outside for 10 days now, anyone knows how far along the station 18 test are?

Getting anxious to see her painted  



A350 logbook: http://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AlVgPnmHLOovdFdzbVlyQzhYNDhCb1VFN1RkYXkwV3c&output=html
User currently offlinebigsmile From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2005, 165 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 79100 times:

Quoting 817Dreamliiner (Reply 19):
Ive got a question though, the A350 is supposed to have a composite structure, but why is it outside unpainted?? Shouldn't it be covered to the protect the surfaces from the UV rays? Or is it already protected in some other way like a protective coating being applied already?

Already painted in Primer (green or yellow depending how you see it)


User currently online817Dreamliiner From Montserrat, joined Jul 2008, 2321 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 79086 times:

Quoting bigsmile (Reply 21):
Already painted in Primer (green or yellow depending how you see it)

Thanks, thats what I was thinking.



Reality be Rent. Synapse, break! Vanishment, This World!
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 11367 posts, RR: 33
Reply 23, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 78858 times:

Another picture, MSN001 at station 18:


(uploaded by Flox Papa)

[Edited 2013-03-09 13:56:08]


Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently online817Dreamliiner From Montserrat, joined Jul 2008, 2321 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 78672 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 23):

Thanks for sharing that photo Karel, it looks really nice at that angle, though if only it had some Trent XWB's on it...



Reality be Rent. Synapse, break! Vanishment, This World!
25 Post contains images EPA001 : Soon she will have them mounted under these beautiful wings. Thanks to your digging work we now know more. . The facilities look to be build pretty d
26 lollomz : Very intersting winglets design; in my opinion they don't appear like the one on B767s, they fit perfctly on the wings!
27 Polot : Does anyone else see a hint of the 757 in the nose, at least from the profile? I can't decide if I like it or not, from some angles it looks fine whil
28 KarelXWB : I learned that outdoor tests for the A330 last about 2 weeks so I don't expect MSN001 to be moved before the end of next week.
29 Bongodog1964 : Bing maps shows an area North of the A380 complex as the site for phase 3, so there's still quite a bit left yet.
30 Post contains images starbucks : Ok, thanks, Just trying to get a timeline... End next week, 15/16 March.... 1 week for paint, 23/24 March.... Engine installation, 1/2 weeks... So ro
31 EagleBoy : Loving the initial look of the A350. Of course lets see it fully painted up. Overall it is/has been an exciting couple of years in civil aviaiton,I am
32 Post contains links and images KarelXWB : More winglet pictures.
33 Post contains images EPA001 : Thanks for posting. These wing-lets are absolutely gorgeous!
34 Post contains images KPDX : They look far more "sharklet-y" than the A32x winglets.
35 KarelXWB : I think station 20 will take at least 2 weeks, maybe longer. It's not just attaching the engines but also checking if everything works, all the engin
36 Post contains links faedc3 : That is some sexy sharklet... to me it looks like a flying Manta Ray http://www.flickr.com/photos/pmforster/219829995/
37 N14AZ : Are this "historic" pictures of MSN 001 getting its winglets or which MSN is this? Just out of curiousity: why no safety helmets when working with tha
38 ER757 : Beautiful.......I'll forgive the stubby-looking nose in reply 23 as long as these beauties are attached to the wings. Really anticipating seeing it f
39 KarelXWB : Correct, these are the winglets of MSN001.
40 Post contains images ferpe : This is MSN001, MSN003 which is next at FAL is not in station 30 yet, it should have entered station 40 and should have it's wings, pylons and vertic
41 Crj 900 : beautiful! aside from that FUGLY nose and cockpit.....
42 Bongodog1964 : If anything breaks in this scenario a £3 safety helmet is totally useless. Their widespread use is just a result of our modern obsession with petty
43 moo : They would offer some protection against a stray load bearing strap swinging around with a bolt eye on the end, however....
44 art : I would say a safer approach from what you say - you are less likely to avoid injury if you wear a helmet.
45 Post contains links and images starbucks : It looks like one of these things: http://www.tuffcap.com, they're baseball caps with protection around the head... I would say that's enough for som
46 Post contains images EPA001 : Thanks for this information, and the rest of your very enlightening post. I have learned a thing or two from it.
47 Post contains images Pugman211 : The wings of MSN002 were transported to Bremen today by Beluga. I only saw the R/H wing leave, but assume the L/H already went.
48 Post contains images ferpe : Great, the first MSN001 wing left for Bremen 5 Sept and was at FAL 2 months later, lets assume things at Bremen take 1.5 month now, then we have MSN0
49 KarelXWB : The first wing of MSN001 was completed on October 13, so it takes about a month to outfit them. Yes, and assembly can already start without the wings
50 ferpe : OK, I was looking at when wing join took place at FAL which was announced at 5 Nov. Question is if Bremen still does one wing at a time or if they no
51 a380900 : Why is the plane parked outside without the engines on? What can possibly be needed to do outside with no engines fitted? Also I wonder: the A380 has
52 CCA : Completely off topic, but which driver would be more careful one with an airbag in the steering wheel or one with a sharp steel spike pointing out at
53 Post contains links and images ferpe : It is covered in post in thread 7, engines are the single most expensive item on the production line and are therefore hung as late as possible, this
54 Pugman211 : The spoilers go down??? I've never seen that. Did you mean the ailerons??? I've seen them lower when the flap is extended, assumably to aid the airfl
55 Post contains links and images ferpe : The world is full of surprises, they do go down as they do on the 787. It is all about the new clever cooperation of the drop hinge flaps and the spo
56 Post contains links KarelXWB : Bloomberg has a nice article about the iron bird (Aircraft Zero). http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-0...-avoid-787-s-ruffled-feathers.html
57 Pugman211 : Ooops! I made a mistake, it was yesterday that the l/h of MSN 002 was transported to Bremen by Beluga.
58 EagleBoy : I'm in this camp. Health and Safety can go too far sometimes and actually hinder the operation. EG. my mates in the cabin constantly complaining that
59 flyglobal : Safety rules can vary, depending on country specific habits and safety standards, legal, union standards or by 'best practice'. One example from Car
60 Post contains links discovery1 : So there seem to be rumors that Spirit is selling their Saint Nazaire plant: http://www.kansas.com/2013/03/15/271...ch-media-reports-airbus-might.html
61 KarelXWB : Well, things can only get better if Airbus buys the plant. Boeing did the same with the 787 aft section plant in Charleston.
62 EPA001 : They did. But every transition has risks too. But I am sure they can manage that. It is striking though that both Boeing and Airbus have or might be
63 Post contains images Stitch : Boeing actually sold their facilities at Wichita to Spirit. The Charleston acquisitions were from Vought and Alenia.
64 Post contains images EPA001 : Oops. Thanks for the correction. I must have mixed up the names and the plants somewhere along the line.
65 art : The report in l'Express does mention an analyst saying Airbus were not happy with work done by Spirit.
66 ferpe : The Spirit plant in St Nazaire is rather small operation far away from the main Spirit activities in Kansas and North Carolina. Spirit is also a US c
67 Stitch : As I understand it, the Saint-Nazaire plant assembles the pieces of Section 15, but the pieces themselves are manufactured by Spirit in Kinston, Nort
68 Post contains images ferpe : It should be Prestwick Scotland, it is the old Scottish aviation/BAE site that Spirit has acquired ( I know cause I have flown one of their types ) .
69 Stitch : I was thinking Bristol, but must have had last night's Midsomer Murders still on the mind (the new DCI is from Brighton). But yes, I see Spirit has t
70 Post contains images ferpe : They go to Broughton where the production is, it is in north Wales. The wing design team and the GKN rear spar production is in Bristol (both descend
71 TheRedBaron : Excuse if it has been asked before, but the wing design was made at Filton or its German designed?
72 ferpe : Both, the wing design (the cruise shape and pressure distribution, drag etc ) is done at Filton and the high lift competence center is at Bremen, at
73 Post contains links ferpe : There is a nice video clip from Hexcel about the CRFP parts on the A350 that the A350 site had in a post. The most interesting is perhaps that it has
74 Bongodog1964 : One interesting fact is that the resin films are manufactured in the Hexcel factory at Duxford. This site developed and manufactured the aerolite res
75 trex8 : IIRC UK has been responsible for all wing design on all Airbuses
76 Post contains images ferpe : Me thinks it has been very quiet around A350, last post was over 3 days ago (talk about us living in the info world, cracking up for 3 days silence ).
77 KarelXWB : Yes it's very quiet. MSN001 now doubled the A330 parking time at station 18. However, we don't know for sure if she is still parked at station 18. Go
78 Post contains images airmagnac : Keep in mind that in addition to the standard testing performed on a series aircraft, there is a whole bunch of other things to do : - test instrumen
79 KarelXWB : I asked a spotter if he could have a look and he replied: So painting next week. I'm not sure why MSN5000 would move away from TLS, maybe the static
80 Aviaponcho : Thank you Ferpe, it's from an old flightglobal article There as already been a lot of drama on the rear galley, the initial galley proposed by Airbus
81 Post contains images ferpe : Good, then Station 18 is finished, after some checks (or paint preparations) we will have paint, then Station 20 to hang engines and last preparation
82 starbucks : Early April paint, lets say about a week? (They're doing an A380 in about 1,5/2 weeks if I'm correct) A bit of negativity saying that she enters the p
83 Post contains links and images queb : engines installed link (in french): http://midi-pyrenees.france3.fr/2013...teurs-sur-son-a350-xwb-223077.html
84 Post contains images starbucks : NICE!!! Earlier than expected and they're apparently not following the production process they published. (Maybe that's only for series production) S
85 Post contains images KarelXWB : I agree. MSN001 is now in "a hanger", probably for some checks and/or paint preparations indeed. Engines can be attached within a day. Let's say they
86 Post contains images KarelXWB : Wait, wut?? Engine attachment should be done after painting. Now we know, "that hanger" is station 20 [Edited 2013-03-26 05:12:12]
87 Post contains images Aviaponcho : No need to paint if they want to fly before 787 battery flight test Good news indeed and nice pics Painting is a matter of day isn't it ?
88 KarelXWB : It's a nice surprise indeed; so they did the outdoor ground tests and installed the engines all in 1 month. Things are progressing well.
89 Post contains images ferpe : And then here Station 20 today, first roll engine to pylon: Then hang it :
90 BoeingVista : According to the link they started with the night shift and had them both hung by lunch time.. Maybe time for us to start looking at EU leaders diari
91 starbucks : Haha indeed, Especially Hollande (France), Merkel (Germany), Cameron (UK) and Rajoy (Spain)
92 Post contains images Aviaponcho : Waiting for the euro to go below 1.25 € / 1 $ ? They might need to finish power on Finally, the engine seats rather low above the ground ! Ferpe thi
93 Post contains links starbucks : According to: http://www.airbus.com/fileadmin/medi...ch_data/AC/Airbus-ACA350-Jan13.pdf At Maximum Ramp Mass the engine ground clearance is between 7
94 Post contains links and images queb : From Airbus website:
95 Aviaponcho : Yes I know I've done some comparison in december (in french ; key word for google : garde au sol A330 A350 777) It's the same ground clearance as 777-
96 Post contains links queb : APU is also installed Airbus installs Rolls-Royce Trent XWB engines and Honeywell APU on A350 XWB MSN001 http://www.airbus.com/newsevents/new...-honey
97 Post contains links starbucks : I'm surprised to read that they also just installed the APU. http://www.airbus.com/newsevents/new...-honeywell-apu-on-a350-xwb-msn001/ I thought that
98 Post contains links and images KarelXWB : Excelent The high-res pictures are available at http://www.airbus.com/galleries/photo-gallery/ Now we can zoom in a bit
99 overcast : From this Press release it doesn't sound like they are planning a big rollout ceremony. Maybe the focus is on First Flight, Flight Test and Delivery.
100 ferpe : That is right, I have them as best value (at about FL370) GE90-94 0.57 (PIPed a bit), the GE90-115 at 0.55, TXWB 0.52 and the GE9X 0.495
101 BoeingVista : I would imagine that the usual suspects.. Will demand some face time with a successful pan European project, but if Airbus really want a grand unveil
102 AngMoh : Do these numbers actually make sense in real life? The numbers don't stand still and they are all based on different years. Today's TXWB will not be
103 Post contains images KarelXWB : That must be it. Static tests would start in March. Ignore my post, I wrote it before queb shared the link. The engines were prepared in advance so t
104 Aviaponcho : And to put nacelle fairing on
105 BoeingVista : Looking at the pictures most of the belly fairing was also removed, any idea why this would be?
106 ferpe : Let me first say these are my estimates based on a number of cross-checks, it can be close but also some way off. And yes the engines get better over
107 ferpe : They are working on numerous places on the frame, the fairing of the fin base is also taken off. Re wing-root one can speculate that they have test p
108 KarelXWB : MSN001 is in station 20 so painting is now the last assembly step. This changes the gambling, I can see her rolling out in 2 weeks from now. Before M
109 Post contains images BoeingVista : I guess that they are still building her Its quite funny to see plug connectors hanging from the pylons ready for connection to the TXWB, we truly ar
110 SKAirbus : On the back of the 787 debacle and the A380 delays, I think Airbus are very keen to give the impression of everything running smoothly. Let's hope th
111 Post contains links KarelXWB : What is your definition of a big ceremony? The A380 ceremony was done in a simple hanger. Just put some seats and scaffolding in the paint hanger, in
112 Post contains images starbucks : I would say/hope for something like the A350 FAL inauguration, complete with livestream, social media coverage, etc.
113 overcast : By big I mean having the Political Big Wigs(Hollande, Merkel etc) attend, and having the light show etc that we had with the A380. I'd hope for a mor
114 Post contains images TheRedBaron : They are taking out the Home depot fasteners Sorry could not resist... I really wish Airbus would surprise everyone with a new livery paint.... the b
115 PW100 : And then to think that it took the A320 just eight (!!) days from roll out to first flight . . . Roll out: 14 Feb 1987 First flight : 22 Feb 1987 JAA
116 Post contains links and images astuteman : Do you have any links to this Ferpe? I was under the impression that the TXWB was performing well within target http://www.aviationweek.com/Article..
117 Post contains images EPA001 : That was my impression as well. No doubt Ferpe will find something to back that up. He is such an asset to this wonderful Internet-forum. . Be carefu
118 Post contains images ferpe : Sure , you cut the quote short of the important next sentence: Rolls Trent XWB program director Chris Young says, “We are well on track to meet our
119 Aviaponcho : Being on spec at EIS is no smal feat compared to the 787... I suspect it implies : - weight creep as been limited (I feel that part of the engine prob
120 Aviaponcho : And what about MSN3, and others ? First flight on time is one thing, but full fleet of test aircrafts on time is necessary for a non delayed EIS
121 Post contains images astuteman : Which says the same as .... i.e. the ones that have been flight testing on the A380 test-bed may not hav been quite there, but the ones being install
122 RickNRoll : Which in engine performance terms means usually means a few percent.
123 Post contains links KarelXWB : A video of the engine installation on MSN001: http://www.airbus.com/presscentre/pressroom/broadcastroom/ (click "Enter the Broadcast room").[Edited 20
124 parapente : Reply 116 - from article - 25% improvement seat fuel burn on a 773er? Thats a huge amount - find that hard to believe really. I could see it on compar
125 na : Wings and tail fine, but the nose of this plane is truly ugly, the worst "face" of any widebody built so far.[Edited 2013-03-27 03:20:56]
126 Post contains images EPA001 : Not really. And that number has come from Airbus since they are marketing the A350-1000. Technology has moved on quite a long way since the B77W was
127 nomadd22 : I know English isn't the only language in play here, but target and specification aren't the same thing.
128 Post contains images starbucks : On Twitter: Maybe change from Station 20 to paint? Or maybe just a picture of the whole aircraft in the hangar...
129 KarelXWB : That makes no sense, I think they will pull the a/c outside for a photoshoot.
130 Post contains links and images ferpe : We will see, me thinks transport to painting . The video was really nice, it shows things that one does not see otherwise, here a bit of details: Sta
131 Post contains images astuteman : I would have thought that by definition the specification was the first target. If you had suggested that "specification" and "guarantees" were diffe
132 BoeingVista : Very interesting video, I guess from Airbuses point of view if things are going well you might as well show it, in comparison the 787 was built as a
133 Post contains images ferpe :
134 KarelXWB : The Bourget organisers today confirmed that the A350 (and Bombardier Cseries) will not be present at the Paris air show.[Edited 2013-03-27 11:33:31]
135 Post contains images Heavierthanair : G´day Presumably Airbus would have no problem getting the A 350 into the Le Bourget show at half an hours notice. Same is probably true for Bombardie
136 Post contains links and images KarelXWB : It was MSN5001! The EF1 nose section has now arrived in Toulouse. Pictures uploaded by http://www.flickr.com/photos/florent_peraudeau
137 Post contains links and images ferpe : Great network of spotters you have , this makes 100% sense, EF1 shall be tested in TLS, must hae gone from St Nazaire to TLS by road. I seem to remeb
138 KarelXWB : Yes, the EF2 center fusulage section was spotted in St Nazaire on March 6 and should be in Munich by now. Yeah, I'm afraid we will never see the EF3
139 Pihero : Never cease to maze me how fragile looking these mountings are. Great work ,everybody. I'm looking forward to the roll out - to see her in all her gl
140 Post contains images KarelXWB : The end? This is just the beginning We have to track assembly of MSN 2, 3, 4 & 5 too. And then the first customer frame (MSN 6). And of course th
141 Aviaponcho : Helas Pihero But you must have forgotten the A350-1000, the -800 The NEO's And maybe Airbus will launch other products... A310/300 Replacement, A380-9
142 Post contains images ferpe : The A350-1000 has EIS 2017 (if it is on time ...) so we will go on for a while ...
143 Post contains images Pihero : Ok ! Ok ! I surrender. T'was also a bit provocative... and, yes we still have so much to share. Can't wait to see her out of the painting room !
144 Post contains links PW100 : Not to go too far off topic, but I'm firmly in the "believe it when I see it - camp " if a pre-2020 EIS 8500nm-405 pax (no cargo) 777-9X will make it
145 rj777 : They keep this up, we might have rollout really soon!
146 Post contains images KarelXWB : Yes but when will that be I wouldn't be surprised if we won't see any pictures of the painted aircraft before the unveiling ceremony.
147 Post contains images 817Dreamliiner : Who knows? Someone might be able to sneak a photo or 2
148 AngMoh : To me "specification" and "guarantees" should be the same with the specification being the minimum numbers which should be achieved, while the target
149 astuteman : Surely "specification" means exactly what it says - i.e. the "specification" SFC required to make the "specification" range/payload - i.e. what Airbu
150 scbriml : Exactly what I would expect, especially in the early stages of a program when you have no real-World data. Even with today's very accurate modelling,
151 knoxibus : Actually no, the aircraft is in C63, it is a "working party" hangar close to the Gramont 2 (cabin fitting) stations 20 of the A330/A340 FAL. This han
152 starbucks : Wondering if we will see that "promised" picture.. :P
153 planesmart : Guarantees are always set below specifications. The former costs the manufacturer - the latter is best endeavours with no financial responsibility. Th
154 Post contains images Semaex : Question: I've been driving by car to FRA yesterday while totally by chance I encountered a front section of an airliner loaded onto a truck. It clear
155 a380900 : Weren't we supposed to have a pic of the finished plane today?
156 Post contains images a380heavy : I thought there was going to be a picture yesterday! Can't wait to see the complete A350 in the open air, and looking forward even more to some pretty
157 Post contains links and images KarelXWB : Unfortunately, the only picture Airbus has shared today is from a big A359 model with a chocolate bunny on it.
158 Post contains images Pihero : But an Easter bunny, no less
159 autothrust : I could be wong, but it seems the TrentXWB reaching new heights in terms of complexity. If i compare the ducts and pipes on older Trents, this looks w
160 Stitch : Well the XWB is the first Trent to have two Intermediate Pressure Turbines so that might account for some of the additional plumbing.
161 BoeingVista : The TXWB as we see it in the pictures above is packed full of test sensors, production engines will look a lot less complex.
162 autothrust : Many thanks for the answers. I'll will be curious to what the final TrentXWB will look like.
163 Post contains links and images nomadd22 : A day late, but Airbus seems to have settled on an eco friendly power system. I can't see any reason it wouldn't work. http://www.aero-news.net/subscr
164 a380900 : So where is the pic??? It feels like we're gonna have to wait for some big show in a hangar before we see the plane completed. I kind of remember it w
165 Post contains links and images ferpe : While we wait for the bride (in full clothing it might be ) here a nice clip from the 3rd TV channel in France which were present when the second engi
166 KarelXWB : We've now seen multiple hints of MSN001 flying before the Paris air show, first the RR guy and now that guy in the video. I'm still thinking that Airb
167 starbucks : If we could expect a rollout this week I guess we should have seen some sort of announcement on the Airbus site, at least for a lvestream I would say,
168 Post contains links ferpe : There is a nice story at the A350 blogs site about Airbus contracting the Berlin company PACE to supply a customized version of their Cabin layout too
169 Phen : Apologies if this question has been asked before - I did a search but could not find an answer. With the new LED lights now in use on new aircraft suc
170 ferpe : This question has not been asked before. I don't think we know if they will keep the double flash, perhaps someone is in the know. From a technical p
171 a380heavy : Two weeks since the Trents were fitted and still no sneaky peek of the finished bird! - the suspense is killing me! Are there really no pictures yet,
172 Post contains links and images starbucks : Me too!! Maybe 2nd half of this week?? when all the Airbus top-bobo's have returned from todays Mobile event. (purely speculative) This page from a K
173 bigsmile : There might be some movements later this week. Could that be MSN003 going to Station 30 and MSN001 going to paint..............?
174 a380heavy : Isn't it MSN0001 that has been in for paint for the last 2 weeks?
175 Post contains links and images ferpe : Could you be right ??? thanks Bigsmile, that means MSN003 is tracking 5 months behind MSN001 which is to long, the flight test plan which we have sho
176 starbucks : AFAIK it was never confirmed that MSN001 was transferred to painting... But I have to say, 2 weeks of radiosilence after engine attachment is long fo
177 KarelXWB : Wait a minute people. It was reported by a local spotter that MSN001 would enter the paint hanger in the beginning of April (see reply #79). Let's ass
178 Post contains images KarelXWB : MSN001 was moved to station 30 on December 4, so it took about 10 weeks between fuselage join and station 30 roll over. MSN003 moving to station 30 t
179 Post contains links KarelXWB : "The company expects to achieve first flight of its A350 jet in "the coming three months," Airbus CEO Fabrice Bregier said in the sidelines of a groun
180 Post contains images flyhigh@tom : Its already present and flying on the sharklets on the 320 series. actually its a very short double flash..similar to the older generation strobes bu
181 Flyhigh1982 : This is a question about the a350 Interior . Early on airbus displayed there BMW interior and one feature it with its led lighting system that it alow
182 Post contains links Phen : Ah I see. Thanks for clarifying. Looking at this video its actually visible as you described: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UO5vOsjdkRk. I assumed t
183 Post contains links and images ferpe : Latest news on the first flight issue: http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...=SOC|FGFG|twitterfeed|Flightglobal "It will be around mid-year, just aft
184 speedygonzales : LEDs are much faster than incandecent bulbs, but not as fast as xenon flash bulbs.
185 EagleBoy : I would guess that internally they are pushing the A350 team for flying before Paris. It would be a great PR coup, especially in light of the current
186 Post contains images ferpe : Good lineup, it servers well to check where Airbus is today with production rate. The limiting factor is the FAL stations 50, 40 and 30 where they on
187 Post contains images KarelXWB : Thanks for digging a bit deeper The 2 lines in station 50, 40 and 30 should not be a problem as long as the production rate is low. And the second FAL
188 Post contains links and images KarelXWB : MSN003: Source http://twitter.com/luchtvaart/status/322637406266351617/photo/1 This must be station 40? I can see the pylons with blue weights in plac
189 Aviaponcho : Nice thanks ! Slats are on (not inboard position), spoilers are on ? Pylons ? donno Gear ? donno
190 Post contains links and images Bogi : Oh yes, nice, thanks ! http://twitter.com/JeffvB_/status/322643119378153472
191 Post contains images KarelXWB : I could be wrong, but it looks like they are attaching the counter weights on the pylons: vs Strange enough, MSN001 did not have them after station 4
192 Post contains links discovery1 : Maybe MSN1 didn't have some internal ducting installed at that point, resulting in the CG being farther forward? There was talk of changes being inco
193 Speedbird128 : I will attempt to give some input here - I was watching the sharklet equipped A320 of LH yesterday, and I am almost 100% certain the new white wingti
194 Post contains links and images KarelXWB : In the meantime I found a picture of MSN001 being towed towards the hangar for engine attachment on March 26: I believe we never have seen a picture f
195 Post contains images ferpe : The engines was hung in a day, it's absence since then is intriguing. I think Airbus either has found something that needs to be attended to (less li
196 TheRedBaron : The same as going to the restroom and then checking (outside) if your fly is open, or you really did zip it....LOL I am anxious to see this new AC pa
197 abba : Indeed so. And I wonder if a date for official roll out has been given? If they are going to have the press and dignitaries attending at least some n
198 Post contains links and images KarelXWB : From the Airbus press release: I guess they are doing those "ongoing ground tests" and "other preparations" now. I know a spotter out there, checking
199 Post contains images ferpe : That's what I figured, therefore I didn't bother to pass the airfield Saturday when we passed Toulouse to get out to the Atlantic coast, if the bird
200 KarelXWB : No, but multiple sources mentioned a roll out date in April 2013. Also, in the press release of March 26 Airbus said that the ongoing ground tests, o
201 Post contains images abba : That must mean that a number of the invited guests already have a date at least reserved! Why has that not been leaked by now
202 Post contains images knoxibus : I guess your spotter did not "spot" MSN 003 leaving station 40 and joining MSN 001 in the same hangar on Monday
203 Post contains images KarelXWB : Hehehe Unfortunately, plane spotting is not a full time job So what is MSN003 doing in that hangar, shouldn't it be in station 30?
204 jvaljean : Any thoughts on when the roll-out ceremony might occur?
205 moo : Could Airbus be trying to pull something amazing and do the roll out ceremony with two aircraft rather than one?
206 Post contains images ferpe : We need to increase our resources and vigilance , we can't have you doing things without us knowing .
207 KarelXWB : Either way, this confirms the 3 weeks faster assembly time for MSN003.[Edited 2013-04-17 02:12:00]
208 BoeingVista : Shouldn't she have gone to the fueling station first like MSN001? That would just be showing off!
209 KarelXWB : No, the sequence is station 50 -> station 40 -> station 30 -> station 18 (fuel / outdoor tests).
210 Aviaponcho : BBD has shown at least 3 FTV Showing 2 A350 for the price of one will give indications on (choose your favortite proposal) 1) the current level of dis
211 Post contains images travelavnut : Hahaha nice one! I haven't been following this project since the start and I am absolutely not an expert like most of the guys in this thread. But to
212 Post contains images ferpe : I think they needed to fit some testing equipment which they could do in station 30 but also in C63 by the side of MSN001. This also gives a fine pho
213 KarelXWB : We are now a month further, the first wing of MSN002 should be ready in Bremen (the first wing of MSN001 was transported to Bremen in the middle of S
214 Post contains images ferpe : The project is about 18 months delayed compared to the original plan from 2006, here the best overview that we have had in the thread (it is a chart
215 knoxibus : Just went to station 30 and it should be there either tonight or tomorrow morning. Now I am ready to play a little game with you guys. Who can guess
216 Post contains images ferpe : How about lightning strike tests (must admit I had to check AC/DC songs )
217 Post contains links Aviaponcho : So .... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:AC/DC_songs It won' t be T.n.t Maybe High voltage ?
218 TheRedBaron : Landing Gear testing.... I would be pissing my pants if those guys make the official rollout with 2 A350 in different colors.... TRB
219 N14AZ : Thunderstruck!
220 Post contains images knoxibus : Ferpe is the winner, N14AZ came in as close second.
221 Post contains images frigatebird : Lightning tests? Thunderstruck is my favourite AC/DC song, volume goes up maximum on my car stereo!
222 KarelXWB : Lightning strike tests in a hangar? Never heard about that.
223 Post contains images frigatebird : Damn, was I slow
224 Post contains images Aviaponcho : Oooooooooo Isn't thunderstruck a high voltage current ? I miss this one What king of lightning test can you do at this stage on a full airframe ? (tha
225 Post contains images ferpe : I think there is some Volts in-between . But the thread is certainly high voltage right now, everyone on their toes not to miss the sight of a comple
226 Post contains images Aviaponcho : Obviously i'm not alone Can we have some more explanations ? Thanks (by the way, nice song)
227 Post contains links Unflug : They should be able to create high voltages resulting in lightning strikes in the hangar. Similar to what is shown in this museum: http://www.youtube
228 BoeingVista : You should be able to produce lightening using a Van der graaf generator... Which was also the name of a half decent English prog rock band from the 7
229 KarelXWB : MSN001 spent 3 months in station 30.[Edited 2013-04-17 09:47:22]
230 BoeingVista : Totally losing track of time here..
231 Post contains images Aircellist : And that happened just while I was out for lunch!
232 blueshamu330s : Oh dear Lord, that pic, courtesy of KarelXWB leaves me chomping at the bit to see this beauty fly. She has so many aesthetic qualities from favourites
233 Post contains images airmagnac : This is the first time Airbus builds a fuselage out of a majority of composite materials, which have relatively poor conductive properties. To make u
234 Post contains images thunderboltdrgn : wow great work.
235 Post contains links oly720man : Airbus have a test lab in Cardiff where they can zap bits of material with up to 250000A and 400000V as the worst ever recorded lightning strike. htt
236 Post contains images EPA001 : Wow, so many developments and time lines in the most recent days of this thread. Things are getting really exciting now. I can hardly wait to see the
237 Post contains links and images KarelXWB : Busy days in C63. Source http://www.bloga350.blogspot.nl/2013...hing-flight-test-installation.html
238 Aviaponcho : Hello Look a the pics, one engine missing on two of them I suspect that they are quite old (dating from engine installation)
239 Post contains images ferpe : Yes, but these photos was taken on the day of the engine install (left engine still not mounted on the first picture). On the Italian website that th
240 Post contains images KarelXWB : I should have seen this. Let's forget the pictures above [Edited 2013-04-19 01:31:50]
241 Post contains images Aviaponcho : I was waiting for KarelXWB message hidden in the woods It's no news pics, but pics, so that's always nice to have some, thanks karelXWB I'm sure Airb
242 Post contains images ferpe : You have given us so many breaking pictures and these were also new (=not seen before), always nice with action in the thread , better we discuss the
243 Post contains images EPA001 : I can only agree with this comment. The more pictures we get to see here, the better it is.
244 pugman211 : Any more updates for this thread??? The only update I have is there will be another set of wings ready for transport to Bremen in the coming weeks.
245 Post contains images KarelXWB : The wings for EF2 maybe? So we have had a set of wings last month (MSN002) and now another set. Seems like production is accelerating [Edited 2013-04-
246 Post contains links maxter : Not sure where to put this, but... http://www.smh.com.au/travel/travel-...-with-airlines-20130424-2iene.html Cheers,
247 KarelXWB : MSN001 has been spotted in C63 last Wednesday. So it's still not inside the paint hangar.
248 Post contains links and images ferpe : I know that CM and Tom informed us that there is quite some testing to be done once the A350 is complete, here is a very good link from the 787 to wh
249 Post contains links and images KarelXWB : Pictures of the lightning test: http://www.airbus.com/no_cache/newse...with-lightning-strike-evaluations/[Edited 2013-04-30 01:49:23]
250 aviaponcho : Thks The photoshooter made it blurred .... focusing on the fence on the first one, and on the white boxe on the ground on the second ...
251 Post contains images KarelXWB : Thanks for sharing this interesting url. It makes sense. It has been a month since engine attachment, I assume they are extensively testing the a/c l
252 Post contains links aviaponcho : Did you see this one ? http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-0...-as-airbus-a350-debut-in-flux.html I don't know what to think of that By the way, MSN003
253 ferpe : You are right, the wing seems to be pretty much the same as MSN001 also had spoilers and ailerons etc installed when rolled between Station 40 to Sta
254 KarelXWB : Maybe. So 3 weeks faster assembly than MSN001 and even more complete.
255 aviaponcho : And MSN003 wiring and systems should be complete and already powered up in order to check lightning effect ... So in fact they are going through prefl
256 KarelXWB : That's the normal procedure, MSN001 had its full power on in station 40 too. MSN002 should enter final assembly very soon. I expect its wings to be r
257 LZ129 : Maybe I missed it somewhere, but is there a picture of MSN001 in its entirety at this moment, that is with engines, but without paint?
258 KarelXWB : There isn't such a picture yet.
259 LZ129 : Thank you for the info! I really can't wait to see the whole thing. Even without paint it should look stunning. I heard a rumor somewhere that there
260 Post contains images KarelXWB : No problem, everyone in this thread can't wait to see it That's the first thing I heard about a changed livery.
261 Post contains images gr09 : It's better showing up at Paris without paint than wandering around the factory painted (Just my wild speculation, but you know... fingers crossed) L
262 Post contains links iowaman : Due to length of this thread, please continue the discussion in part 9: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 9 (by iowaman Apr 30 2013 in Civil Avia
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