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A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 8  
User currently offlineiowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4383 posts, RR: 6
Posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 87983 times:
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Due to length of part 7, please continue part 8 here if so desired.

Previous thread: A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 7 (by Luxair747SP Jan 21 2013 in Civil Aviation)


Next flights: WN DSM-LAS-PHX, US PHX-SJD. Return: US SJD-PHX, WN PHX-MDW-DSM
262 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offline817Dreamliiner From Montserrat, joined Jul 2008, 2292 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 87644 times:

First Photo in the database:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Langenfeld - hummelfX




Reality be Rent. Synapse, break! Vanishment, This World!
User currently offlineSemaex From Germany, joined Nov 2009, 823 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 87016 times:

Quoting 817Dreamliiner (Reply 1):

That's an incredible wingtip design. This perspective really show the unique curvature.

One question though: Why does the vertical stabilizer not have such a smooth roundout to the fuselage than, for example, the A330? Does that not increase the parasite drag a lot?



// You know you're an aviation enthusiast when you look at your neighbour's cars and think about fleet commonality.
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 11204 posts, RR: 33
Reply 3, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 86980 times:

I have a question. There are 5 spots at station 18:

http://oi45.tinypic.com/5bocd4.jpg

And 7 hangars at station 20:

http://oi47.tinypic.com/2i7o6eb.jpg

At some point in time these places will handle 10x A330 and 10x A350 aircraft per month. Airbus is building a second A350 FAL right now but no word on extra places at station 18 nor station 20. Are 5x station 18 and 7x station 20 spots really enough to support the assembly of 20 aircraft a month?



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlinestarbucks From Netherlands, joined Feb 2013, 698 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 86911 times:

Quoting Semaex (Reply 2):
One question though: Why does the vertical stabilizer not have such a smooth roundout to the fuselage than, for example, the A330? Does that not increase the parasite drag a lot?

Well, the A380 has more or less the same tail design at the VTP/fuselage meeting point..


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © T.Laurent



So I guess the design works  Smile

[Edited 2013-03-08 05:21:01]


A350 logbook: http://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AlVgPnmHLOovdFdzbVlyQzhYNDhCb1VFN1RkYXkwV3c&output=html
User currently onlineinfiniti329 From United States of America, joined Jul 2012, 643 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 85800 times:

Quoting Semaex (Reply 2):
That's an incredible wingtip design. This perspective really show the unique curvature.

Now those are what I call sharklets


User currently offlinePugman211 From UK - England, joined Dec 2012, 104 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 85211 times:
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Quoting infiniti329 (Reply 5):
Quoting Semaex (Reply 2):
That's an incredible wingtip design. This perspective really show the unique curvature.

Now those are what I call sharklets

Agreed!!


User currently offlinefrancoflier From France, joined Oct 2001, 3741 posts, RR: 11
Reply 7, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 84780 times:

Quoting Semaex (Reply 2):
Why does the vertical stabilizer not have such a smooth roundout to the fuselage than, for example, the A330?

There is a rounded shape at the base of the fin. It doesn't necessarily need to be proportional to the size of the fin.
And it decreases the wetted area that way.



Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit posting...
User currently offlinerwood89 From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2012, 6 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 84427 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 3):
I have a question. There are 5 spots at station 18:

and 7 hangars at station 20:

At some point in time these places will handle 10x A330 and 10x A350 aircraft per month. Airbus is building a second A350 FAL right now but no word on extra places at station 18 nor station 20. Are 5x station 18 and 7x station 20 spots really enough to support the assembly of 20 aircraft a month?


If you can streamline production and improve it's leaness then yeah, make more with less.

Eventually the A330 will be completely replaced by the A350, although there's no sight of this yet, I believe once the A350 is flying and production matures, there won't be as much demand for the A330 and it will slowly phase out. There will be plenty of young second hand frames available perhaps too because of the increased production rate now.


User currently offlineER757 From Cayman Islands, joined May 2005, 2510 posts, RR: 7
Reply 9, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 83993 times:

Quoting infiniti329 (Reply 5):
Quoting Semaex (Reply 2):
That's an incredible wingtip design. This perspective really show the unique curvature.

Now those are what I call sharklets

Yeah - the A350 has instantly risen to near the top of my favorite looking aircraft with those babies!  


User currently offlineTeamDA From Norway, joined Mar 2008, 37 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 83486 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 3):
And 7 hangars at station 20:

To my knowledge (from the Taxiway panoramic tours and other sources) there are actually 9 station 20 hangers. Which I have labelled in red 20A-20I.

Airbus Postes


They've more or less finished a new hanger next to 20A, but I don't think it is in use yet.
In addition the big hanger C63 can get at least 3 A330s inside, I have seen frames come out of Poste 35A/B and go straight in there, frames go from stations 18 in there and from stations 20. A330s can also end up in C63 after a test flight. So although I don't count it in the 9 stations 20 at present this hanger provides extra capacity.

The area I have marked with 1 (Blue) is now a location that you can often see A330s in a similar state to stations 18. Therefore you could also consider that as extra capacity, especially after they have come out of stations 30.

Early this month I realised that it looks like a new hanger is being built in the area marked 2 (Blue) next to the hanger traditionally used by the test flight A380s.

There is one hanger I have marked with Z (Blue) , that I don't know what it has used for. It looks like a paint hall (other 2 are marked with PH) , but i have also seen A320s and 330s in there receiving attention.

Finally there is also the opportunity to do some work off site. B-LAZ (A330 msn 1387) is a recent example as it spent more than two weeks away from TLS between it's first and second flight. I think at Châteauroux and came back painted and I assume with its cabin installed.

What is happening on the A350 site, I don't know. It is still one big building site on one side still and the tours don't get near it. It is also built in such a way that external views are very limited.


User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 11204 posts, RR: 33
Reply 11, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 83023 times:

Now that's some useful information! Thank you. There is almost nothing to find on the internet about the A330 final assembly buildings.

Quote:
They've more or less finished a new hanger next to 20A, but I don't think it is in use yet.
In addition the big hanger C63 can get at least 3 A330s inside, I have seen frames come out of Poste 35A/B and go straight in there, frames go from stations 18 in there and from stations 20. A330s can also end up in C63 after a test flight. So although I don't count it in the 9 stations 20 at present this hanger provides extra capacity.

It's probably a hanger with enough space to do some (specific customer?) things that are not part of the normal assembly process.

Quote:
The area I have marked with 1 (Blue) is now a location that you can often see A330s in a similar state to stations 18. Therefore you could also consider that as extra capacity, especially after they have come out of stations 30.

Ah, there are more places for outdoor ground tests. Good to know.

There is still one unknown building, do you know its purpose?

http://oi47.tinypic.com/vpbx34.jpg

1 = A330 wing join
2 = A330 fuselage join
3 = A330 system installation
? = ??

The steel on the roof indicates that there are cranes inside so it must be some kind of assembly building.

[Edited 2013-03-08 11:52:36]


Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineTeamDA From Norway, joined Mar 2008, 37 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 82322 times:

Your latest pic takes me back a few years when Taxiway ran a tour of the A330/340 line.

The area with the question mark is the Beluga unpacking area. They go in nose first here where there is some equipment to empty them.

Area 1 as you say is where the wings are joined to the middle fuselage section. This is know as Poste 40A

Area 2 has two areas for assembling the aircraft. Marked as Poste 35A (bottom of pic) and Poste 35B

Area 3 is then Poste 30D - Poste 30A from left to right.

The old tour had a visitors gallery between poste 30A and 35A. So if you have seen any pictures of 4 A330s on the line it is probably taken from here.


User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 11204 posts, RR: 33
Reply 13, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 82226 times:

Quoting TeamDA (Reply 12):
The old tour had a visitors gallery between poste 30A and 35A. So if you have seen any pictures of 4 A330s on the line it is probably taken from here.

Like this one: http://www.flickr.com/photos/aviaciondigital/5412855073/ ?



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineAirPacific747 From Denmark, joined May 2008, 2385 posts, RR: 21
Reply 14, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 81738 times:

Quoting ER757 (Reply 9):
Yeah - the A350 has instantly risen to near the top of my favorite looking aircraft with those babies!

Really? I don't think they fit with the rest of the wing design. To me, they somehow look like something that was mounted on an already existing design, like the 767 winglets.


User currently offlineIndianicWorld From Australia, joined Jun 2001, 2942 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 80690 times:

Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 14):
Really? I don't think they fit with the rest of the wing design. To me, they somehow look like something that was mounted on an already existing design, like the 767 winglets.

I can see where you are coming from, but they look so damn good at the same time  

Certainly adds some interest and something distinctive to the aircraft.


User currently offlinea380900 From France, joined Dec 2003, 1110 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 80673 times:

Quoting 817Dreamliiner (Reply 1):
First Photo in the database:

Are the engines mounted? One cannot say from the pic but I guess at the point where the plane is spending time outside, they must be on. No?


User currently offlineBoeingVista From Australia, joined Jan 2009, 1575 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 80556 times:

Quoting a380900 (Reply 16):
Are the engines mounted? One cannot say from the pic but I guess at the point where the plane is spending time outside, they must be on. No?

Nope, the engines will not be mounted until after she has been to the paint shop.



BV
User currently offlineAirPacific747 From Denmark, joined May 2008, 2385 posts, RR: 21
Reply 18, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 80297 times:

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 15):
I can see where you are coming from, but they look so damn good at the same time  

Certainly adds some interest and something distinctive to the aircraft.

This is also true.. I will wait with final verdict till I see the whole aircraft assembled and painted  


User currently offline817Dreamliiner From Montserrat, joined Jul 2008, 2292 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 80182 times:

Ive got a question though, the A350 is supposed to have a composite structure, but why is it outside unpainted?? Shouldn't it be covered to the protect the surfaces from the UV rays? Or is it already protected in some other way like a protective coating being applied already?


Reality be Rent. Synapse, break! Vanishment, This World!
User currently offlinestarbucks From Netherlands, joined Feb 2013, 698 posts, RR: 6
Reply 20, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 79907 times:

So she's been outside for 10 days now, anyone knows how far along the station 18 test are?

Getting anxious to see her painted  



A350 logbook: http://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AlVgPnmHLOovdFdzbVlyQzhYNDhCb1VFN1RkYXkwV3c&output=html
User currently offlinebigsmile From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2005, 164 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 79001 times:

Quoting 817Dreamliiner (Reply 19):
Ive got a question though, the A350 is supposed to have a composite structure, but why is it outside unpainted?? Shouldn't it be covered to the protect the surfaces from the UV rays? Or is it already protected in some other way like a protective coating being applied already?

Already painted in Primer (green or yellow depending how you see it)


User currently offline817Dreamliiner From Montserrat, joined Jul 2008, 2292 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 78987 times:

Quoting bigsmile (Reply 21):
Already painted in Primer (green or yellow depending how you see it)

Thanks, thats what I was thinking.



Reality be Rent. Synapse, break! Vanishment, This World!
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 11204 posts, RR: 33
Reply 23, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 78759 times:

Another picture, MSN001 at station 18:


(uploaded by Flox Papa)

[Edited 2013-03-09 13:56:08]


Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offline817Dreamliiner From Montserrat, joined Jul 2008, 2292 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 78573 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 23):

Thanks for sharing that photo Karel, it looks really nice at that angle, though if only it had some Trent XWB's on it...



Reality be Rent. Synapse, break! Vanishment, This World!
User currently offlineEPA001 From Netherlands, joined Sep 2006, 4721 posts, RR: 39
Reply 25, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 78677 times:
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Quoting 817Dreamliiner (Reply 24):
Thanks for sharing that photo Karel, it looks really nice at that angle, though if only it had some Trent XWB's on it...

Soon she will have them mounted under these beautiful wings.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 11):
Now that's some useful information! Thank you. There is almost nothing to find on the Internet about the A330 final assembly buildings.

Thanks to your digging work we now know more.  . The facilities look to be build pretty dense. Are they running out of space in Tolulouse?


User currently offlinelollomz From Italy, joined Sep 2005, 261 posts, RR: 0
Reply 26, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 77807 times:
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Very intersting winglets design; in my opinion they don't appear like the one on B767s, they fit perfctly on the wings!

User currently offlinePolot From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 2157 posts, RR: 1
Reply 27, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 79066 times:

Does anyone else see a hint of the 757 in the nose, at least from the profile? I can't decide if I like it or not, from some angles it looks fine while others (like the one in reply 23) it looks kind of stubby.

User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 11204 posts, RR: 33
Reply 28, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 78604 times:

Quoting starbucks (Reply 20):
So she's been outside for 10 days now, anyone knows how far along the station 18 test are?

I learned that outdoor tests for the A330 last about 2 weeks so I don't expect MSN001 to be moved before the end of next week.



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineBongodog1964 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 3546 posts, RR: 3
Reply 29, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 78445 times:

Quoting EPA001 (Reply 25):
Thanks to your digging work we now know more. . The facilities look to be build pretty dense. Are they running out of space in Tolulouse?

Bing maps shows an area North of the A380 complex as the site for phase 3, so there's still quite a bit left yet.


User currently offlinestarbucks From Netherlands, joined Feb 2013, 698 posts, RR: 6
Reply 30, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 78263 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 28):
I learned that outdoor tests for the A330 last about 2 weeks so I don't expect MSN001 to be moved before the end of next week.

Ok, thanks, Just trying to get a timeline... End next week, 15/16 March.... 1 week for paint, 23/24 March.... Engine installation, 1/2 weeks... So rollout early April??   (hopefully... )



A350 logbook: http://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AlVgPnmHLOovdFdzbVlyQzhYNDhCb1VFN1RkYXkwV3c&output=html
User currently offlineEagleBoy From Niue, joined Dec 2009, 1810 posts, RR: 2
Reply 31, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 77931 times:
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Loving the initial look of the A350. Of course lets see it fully painted up.

Overall it is/has been an exciting couple of years in civil aviaiton,I am enjoying all the developments and changes happening
....B787 (flying again soon I hope)....A350....C Series....A320 Sharklets.....A320NEO and B737MAX programs


User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 11204 posts, RR: 33
Reply 32, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 76521 times:

More winglet pictures.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-PFBCdqjzq1U/UTuzbpq4nzI/AAAAAAAAC0w/HbRubKf04Os/s1600/image.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-jlfCiRfJ7ZI/UTuzbQcV7dI/AAAAAAAAC0s/h609tkGLlIY/s1600/image.jpg




Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineEPA001 From Netherlands, joined Sep 2006, 4721 posts, RR: 39
Reply 33, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 76241 times:
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Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 32):
More winglet pictures.

Thanks for posting. These wing-lets are absolutely gorgeous!  


User currently onlineKPDX From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 2737 posts, RR: 2
Reply 34, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 76221 times:

Quoting EPA001 (Reply 33):
Thanks for posting. These wing-lets are absolutely gorgeous!  

They look far more "sharklet-y" than the A32x winglets. 



View my aviation videos on Youtube by searching for zildjiandrummr12
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 11204 posts, RR: 33
Reply 35, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 76025 times:

Quoting starbucks (Reply 30):
Ok, thanks, Just trying to get a timeline... End next week, 15/16 March.... 1 week for paint, 23/24 March.... Engine installation, 1/2 weeks... So rollout early April??   (hopefully... )

I think station 20 will take at least 2 weeks, maybe longer. It's not just attaching the engines but also checking if everything works, all the engine sensors etc. A roll out in the second half of April looks more likely.

It's also possible that Airbus will not show the complete airplane until the official roll out ceremony.



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlinefaedc3 From Ecuador, joined Jun 2007, 155 posts, RR: 0
Reply 36, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 75956 times:

That is some sexy sharklet... to me it looks like a flying Manta Ray

http://www.flickr.com/photos/pmforster/219829995/


User currently offlineN14AZ From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2699 posts, RR: 25
Reply 37, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 75840 times:

Are this "historic" pictures of MSN 001 getting its winglets or which MSN is this?

Just out of curiousity: why no safety helmets when working with that gantry crane and moving objects? Naaah, these baseball caps will work fine in case something goes wrong...


User currently offlineER757 From Cayman Islands, joined May 2005, 2510 posts, RR: 7
Reply 38, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 75528 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 32):
More winglet pictures.

Beautiful.......I'll forgive the stubby-looking nose in reply 23 as long as these beauties are attached to the wings.
Really anticipating seeing it fully painted and also airborne!


User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 11204 posts, RR: 33
Reply 39, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 74958 times:

Quoting N14AZ (Reply 37):
re this "historic" pictures of MSN 001 getting its winglets or which MSN is this?

Correct, these are the winglets of MSN001.



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineferpe From France, joined Nov 2010, 2803 posts, RR: 59
Reply 40, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 75077 times:

Quoting N14AZ (Reply 37):
Are this "historic" pictures of MSN 001 getting its winglets or which MSN is this?

This is MSN001, MSN003 which is next at FAL is not in station 30 yet, it should have entered station 40 and should have it's wings, pylons and vertical/horizontal tail fitted.

The picture is nice not only for showing the fitting of those gorgeous winglets or the real sharklets as they should be called (the A320 is just a blended winglet renamed to sharklet  ) but for showing the very distinctive A350 flaps deployed:



Airbus uses an inner and outer flap with a seamless join between them (left arrow, Boeing has a high speed aileron in between, it is discussed at length in the Airbus vs Boeing wing thread in Tech/Ops). This seamless join allows a very optimally shaped pressure distribution on the wings inner part. This is especially important at start as the designers fight for every % of lift versus drag (L/D) to allow max MTOW to be hauled while still being safe if one engine let's go.

Given the droop hinge principle of the A350 wing flaps such a join is a little tricky to get simple and efficient. Airbus solved it nicely by having the outer flap deploying straight back thus parallel to the inner flap. They also gain noise level by doing that (the under wing flap fairings does not go into the wind, generating turbulence and thus noise), this is especially important at landing when e.g. operating at LHR where Airport operation noise is a real issue. This importance will only augment and more and more airports will join LHR with such night flying rules.

The right arrow in the picture points to the area between outer flap and high speed or inner aileron, the gap between these is made a little more complicated as the outer flap now moves straight back and the aileron follow the wings trailing edge angle. When both are deployed (aileron droop for start and landing) there is a small gap on the inner part which closes when going to the aileron/flap tip. Airbus has made a fitting in between for sealing the gap at the non deployed position, this also holds the wing tank venting outlet.



Non French in France
User currently offlineCrj 900 From Canada, joined Mar 2001, 594 posts, RR: 1
Reply 41, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 74705 times:

beautiful! aside from that FUGLY nose and cockpit.....

User currently offlineBongodog1964 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 3546 posts, RR: 3
Reply 42, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 74720 times:

Quoting N14AZ (Reply 37):
Just out of curiousity: why no safety helmets when working with that gantry crane and moving objects? Naaah, these baseball caps will work fine in case something goes wrong...

If anything breaks in this scenario a £3 safety helmet is totally useless. Their widespread use is just a result of our modern obsession with petty minded rules. They are very useful for what they are designed for which is to protect the head from small falling objects, on a building site they provide protection if a hammer or a brick falls off the scaffold onto someone below. They provide similar protection on other environments.
What they don't do is protect you from a falling load from a crane, being run over by a vehicle etc.

Their drawbacks include providing people with a false sense of security, and restricting vision, particularly when looking up.

Airbus Health & Safety obviously take a sensible approach to this.


User currently offlinemoo From Falkland Islands, joined May 2007, 3909 posts, RR: 4
Reply 43, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 74540 times:

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 42):
What they don't do is protect you from a falling load from a crane, being run over by a vehicle etc.

They would offer some protection against a stray load bearing strap swinging around with a bolt eye on the end, however....


User currently offlineart From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 3382 posts, RR: 1
Reply 44, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 74544 times:

Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 42):
If anything breaks in this scenario a £3 safety helmet is totally useless.... What they don't do is protect you from a falling load from a crane, being run over by a vehicle etc.

Their drawbacks include providing people with a false sense of security, and restricting vision, particularly when looking up.

Airbus Health & Safety obviously take a sensible approach to this.

I would say a safer approach from what you say - you are less likely to avoid injury if you wear a helmet.


User currently offlinestarbucks From Netherlands, joined Feb 2013, 698 posts, RR: 6
Reply 45, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 74555 times:

Quoting N14AZ (Reply 37):
Just out of curiousity: why no safety helmets when working with that gantry crane and moving objects? Naaah, these baseball caps will work fine in case something goes wrong...

It looks like one of these things: http://www.tuffcap.com, they're baseball caps with protection around the head... I would say that's enough for some stray bands swinging around?

And if they are normal caps, these offer some protection as well. Last year I bumped my head (really hard) onto the edge of a Fokker 70 NLG door, I got a pretty large bump on my head but no cuts or bleeding thanks to the cap I was wearing.
A couple of weeks later a colleague had the same, unfortunately he wasn't wearing one and he got a pretty deep cut in his head which had to be treated at the airport medical post (disinfected, glued, etc..)

Caps do protect! Not as much as a helmet or "Tuffcap" but there is some protection  

And now back on topic I would say? A350!  



A350 logbook: http://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AlVgPnmHLOovdFdzbVlyQzhYNDhCb1VFN1RkYXkwV3c&output=html
User currently offlineEPA001 From Netherlands, joined Sep 2006, 4721 posts, RR: 39
Reply 46, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 74452 times:
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Quoting ferpe (Reply 40):
This is MSN001, MSN003 which is next at FAL is not in station 30 yet, it should have entered station 40 and should have it's wings, pylons and vertical/horizontal tail fitted.

Thanks for this information, and the rest of your very enlightening post. I have learned a thing or two from it.  


User currently offlinePugman211 From UK - England, joined Dec 2012, 104 posts, RR: 0
Reply 47, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 73491 times:
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The wings of MSN002 were transported to Bremen today by Beluga. I only saw the R/H wing leave, but assume the L/H already went.  

User currently offlineferpe From France, joined Nov 2010, 2803 posts, RR: 59
Reply 48, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 73432 times:

Quoting Pugman211 (Reply 47):
The wings of MSN002 were transported to Bremen today by Beluga. I only saw the R/H wing leave, but assume the L/H already went.

Great, the first MSN001 wing left for Bremen 5 Sept and was at FAL 2 months later, lets assume things at Bremen take 1.5 month now, then we have MSN002 getting it's wings in Station 40 early May, sounds plausible. We should see MSN003 being rolled from Station 40 to 30 end of this month IMO, the FAL heart is starting to beat  angel  Big grin .

[Edited 2013-03-13 13:56:34]


Non French in France
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 11204 posts, RR: 33
Reply 49, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 73239 times:

The first wing of MSN001 was completed on October 13, so it takes about a month to outfit them.

Quote:
then we have MSN002 getting it's wings in Station 40 early May, sounds plausible.

Yes, and assembly can already start without the wings in station 50. I expect MSN002 to start final assembly somewhere next month.



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineferpe From France, joined Nov 2010, 2803 posts, RR: 59
Reply 50, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 72956 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 49):
The first wing of MSN001 was completed on October 13, so it takes about a month to outfit them.

OK, I was looking at when wing join took place at FAL which was announced at 5 Nov. Question is if Bremen still does one wing at a time or if they now have 2 stations/teams that can do the work in parallel.



Non French in France
User currently offlinea380900 From France, joined Dec 2003, 1110 posts, RR: 1
Reply 51, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 72456 times:

Why is the plane parked outside without the engines on? What can possibly be needed to do outside with no engines fitted?

Also I wonder: the A380 has this 3 parts ailerons that are supposed to stabilized the plane or something like this. Why didn't Airbus do that with the A350 if this thing was a success? Maybe not 3 parts as the plane is smaller but two maybe? Why didn't they go for that?


User currently offlineCCA From Hong Kong, joined Oct 2002, 830 posts, RR: 14
Reply 52, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 72786 times:

Quoting art (Reply 44):
I would say a safer approach from what you say - you are less likely to avoid injury if you wear a helmet.

Completely off topic, but which driver would be more careful one with an airbag in the steering wheel or one with a sharp steel spike pointing out at you? Carelessness is often a result of perceived safety.

Great looking A/C looking forward to seeing the engines on shame about the cockpit colour that blue is hideous!



C152 G115 TB10 CAP10 SR-22 Be76 PA-34 NDN-1T C500 A330-300 A340-300 -600 B747-200F -200SF -400 -400F -400BCF -400ERF -8F
User currently offlineferpe From France, joined Nov 2010, 2803 posts, RR: 59
Reply 53, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 72822 times:

Quoting a380900 (Reply 51):
Why is the plane parked outside without the engines on? What can possibly be needed to do outside with no engines fitted?

It is covered in post in thread 7, engines are the single most expensive item on the production line and are therefore hung as late as possible, this is standard practice in the production world. The tests outside in station 18 is best taken from Aibus press release when rolling the aircraft there

"The aircraft has recently completed successfully a series of indoor ground tests including stability tests on ‘movable’ elements such as rudder, elevators, ailerons and wing spoilers and landing gears extraction/retraction. The next steps which will take place outdoors at Station 18 will include three planned families of tests: Fuel tanks testing – including levels, flows, sealing and internal fuel transfer functions; pressure testing of the fuselage; and radio equipment testing.

Quoting a380900 (Reply 51):
Also I wonder: the A380 has this 3 parts ailerons that are supposed to stabilized the plane or something like this. Why didn't Airbus do that with the A350 if this thing was a success? Maybe not 3 parts as the plane is smaller but two maybe? Why didn't they go for that?

The A350 has a 2 part aileron, inner for high/low speed and outer which is only active at low speed. They are sitting close together but one can see where they start and stop in this picture, about midway on the aileron area:

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm262/ferpe_bucket/Winglets_zpsa06ba84c.jpg

Also visible is the guiding vane for the outer end of the flap. This is needed so that the flap follows the bending of the wing otherwise the gap between then flap and the spoiler on it's cricitcal overside would vary. Those spoilers also produce the flaps aerodynamic slot by going sligthly down when the flap extends, once again it is important that the slot stayed the same along the flap as the wing bends, thus the flaps are supported on a number of points, not only the hinges.

[Edited 2013-03-13 21:45:03]


Non French in France
User currently offlinePugman211 From UK - England, joined Dec 2012, 104 posts, RR: 0
Reply 54, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 72648 times:
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Quoting ferpe (Reply 53):
Those spoilers also produce the flaps aerodynamic slot by going slightly down when the flap extends,

The spoilers go down??? I've never seen that. Did you mean the ailerons??? I've seen them lower when the flap is extended, assumably to aid the airflow at the tip end of the wing.


User currently offlineferpe From France, joined Nov 2010, 2803 posts, RR: 59
Reply 55, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 72568 times:

Quoting Pugman211 (Reply 54):
The spoilers go down??? I've never seen that.

The world is full of surprises, they do go down as they do on the 787. It is all about the new clever cooperation of the drop hinge flaps and the spoilers doing double duty (as spoilers and flap slot controllers). This is made possible by all movable surfaces on the new frames being controlled by FBW, ie any sort of movement can be commanded within their movement authority and in full cooperation with any other movable surface on the ship.

It has all been covered at lenght, first I thought I'd tell you to search up-thread, then I went and found where it was discussed, it was 7 threads ago  Wow! , Nov 2011:

www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/ge..._aviation/read.main/5289057/1/#236

Times flies and we have covered quite a bit in this thread  . In the discussion about the wing there was one thing that was confused, the wing loading. Actually the 787 and 350 wings have similar wingloadings, the problem was that the areas that were given were measured according to different standards, this is covered here:

Boeing Vs. Airbus Wing Design Philosophies (by ferpe Apr 16 2012 in Tech Ops)

I now use one standard for all discussions around wings, as Airbus is the more frequent publisher of the wing area I used their measurement principle and convert other to that. It really doesn't matter which one one use as long as one does not mix    .

[Edited 2013-03-14 00:34:28]


Non French in France
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 11204 posts, RR: 33
Reply 56, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 71034 times:

Bloomberg has a nice article about the iron bird (Aircraft Zero).

Quote:
Each night when the lights go out at Airbus SAS (EAD) in southern France, a nocturnal creature stirs. Inside a hangar at the Toulouse production campus, the planemaker’s “iron bird” performs all-night tests on hydraulic pumps, electrical cabling and mechanical parts draped across a loose layout of the A350 jetliner. When Airbus engineers return next morning, they sift through the data to fine-tune the new wide-body’s systems ahead of its maiden flight later this year.

......

While most of the A350’s innards are replicated on the iron bird, Airbus has complementary setups in Filton, England, for landing gear -- among the plane’s largest and most complex structures -- and in Bremen, Germany, for wing surfaces. Both sites can be connected to the Toulouse test-bed via computer.

 Wow!

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-0...-avoid-787-s-ruffled-feathers.html



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlinePugman211 From UK - England, joined Dec 2012, 104 posts, RR: 0
Reply 57, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 70712 times:
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Ooops! I made a mistake, it was yesterday that the l/h of MSN 002 was transported to Bremen by Beluga.

User currently offlineEagleBoy From Niue, joined Dec 2009, 1810 posts, RR: 2
Reply 58, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 70526 times:
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Quoting Bongodog1964 (Reply 42):
If anything breaks in this scenario a £3 safety helmet is totally useless. Their widespread use is just a result of our modern obsession with petty minded rules..............Airbus Health & Safety obviously take a sensible approach to this

I'm in this camp. Health and Safety can go too far sometimes and actually hinder the operation. EG. my mates in the cabin constantly complaining that they company issued oven gloves are actually too think to allow them to open the ovens. In addition they are not waterproof.........aircraft alleys can get very wet during service.......

Quoting KPDX (Reply 34):
They look far more "sharklet-y" than the A32x winglets.
Quoting EPA001 (Reply 33):
These wing-lets are absolutely gorgeous!

Spot on


User currently offlineflyglobal From Germany, joined Mar 2008, 576 posts, RR: 3
Reply 59, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 69766 times:

Quoting EagleBoy (Reply 58):
I'm in this camp. Health and Safety can go too far sometimes and actually hinder the operation. EG. my mates in the cabin constantly complaining that they company issued oven gloves are actually too think to allow them to open the ovens. In addition they are not waterproof.........aircraft alleys can get very wet during service.......



Safety rules can vary, depending on country specific habits and safety standards, legal, union standards or by 'best practice'.
One example from Car industries:

We once worked with a Japanese car company.
When in a proto shop, every time you had to go below the lifter and hence under the car, a helmet had to be used.
And tit was strictly enforced. They had a real paranoia behave the one or two times we forgot it, not being used to it.

In Germany (and our company), this is not a safety requirement, as we consider a lifter basically safe, as a lifter has a Lock function which needs to be 'locked in', when in use.

We wondered then as Germans and Americans (it was essentially a global project):
Just next to the lifter, people openly used Toxic fluids, where in Germany very severe safety rules exist regarding evaporation, fire protection, clothing and skin protection, gloves, training etc.):
Compared to the helmet under lifter issue we felt the fluid issue way more a safety and life threatening health risk - completely unbalanced in our view.

So everyone may react here based on the standards and sensitivities in his environments.

Same for Sexual harassment standards:
In US your job may be at risk if you mention a nice dress to your female college, while in Korea (I lived there), your female colleague may almost kill you and hate you if you didn't mention (positively) a new dress or haircut.

Different standards, different behaves - very difficult to globalize.

regards

Flyglobal


User currently offlinediscovery1 From United States of America, joined Jan 2013, 25 posts, RR: 0
Reply 60, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 69423 times:

So there seem to be rumors that Spirit is selling their Saint Nazaire plant:

http://www.kansas.com/2013/03/15/271...ch-media-reports-airbus-might.html

Here is a short story in french, not that I can read french:
http://votreargent.lexpress.fr/bours...a-saint-nazaire-en-vue_297481.html

I'm going to guess it was staffed with ex-airbus people, so I'm not entirely certain what this will do. Maybe the highest level management is just terrible and could use a change.


User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 11204 posts, RR: 33
Reply 61, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 69379 times:

Well, things can only get better if Airbus buys the plant. Boeing did the same with the 787 aft section plant in Charleston.


Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineEPA001 From Netherlands, joined Sep 2006, 4721 posts, RR: 39
Reply 62, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 69291 times:
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Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 61):
Well, things can only get better if Airbus buys the plant. Boeing did the same with the 787 aft section plant in Charleston.

They did. But every transition has risks too. But I am sure they can manage that. It is striking though that both Boeing and Airbus have or might be buying plants from Spirit.


User currently onlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30865 posts, RR: 86
Reply 63, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 69350 times:
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Quoting EPA001 (Reply 62):
It is striking though that both Boeing and Airbus have or might be buying plants from Spirit.

Boeing actually sold their facilities at Wichita to Spirit.  






The Charleston acquisitions were from Vought and Alenia.


User currently offlineEPA001 From Netherlands, joined Sep 2006, 4721 posts, RR: 39
Reply 64, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 69170 times:
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Quoting Stitch (Reply 63):
Boeing actually sold their facilities at Wichita to Spirit.  

The Charleston acquisitions were from Vought and Alenia.

Oops. Thanks for the correction. I must have mixed up the names and the plants somewhere along the line.  


User currently offlineart From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 3382 posts, RR: 1
Reply 65, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 69148 times:

Quoting discovery1 (Reply 60):
So there seem to be rumors that Spirit is selling their Saint Nazaire plant:

http://www.kansas.com/2013/03/15/271...ch-media-reports-airbus-might.html

Here is a short story in french, not that I can read french:
http://votreargent.lexpress.fr/bours....html

The report in l'Express does mention an analyst saying Airbus were not happy with work done by Spirit.


User currently offlineferpe From France, joined Nov 2010, 2803 posts, RR: 59
Reply 66, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 69127 times:

Quoting discovery1 (Reply 60):
So there seem to be rumors that Spirit is selling their Saint Nazaire plant:

The Spirit plant in St Nazaire is rather small operation far away from the main Spirit activities in Kansas and North Carolina. Spirit is also a US company with what that entails in management and language culture. I always wondered how they would handle french personnel (which thinks and work differently) in this small enclave. On the other hand Airbus has a major site just on the other side of the airfield with a big workforce and management capability, all tuned to french conditions.

It might just be a very pragmatic solution for both that the delivery line is drawn ex Kinston South Carolina rather then the middle of the St Nazaire airfield.

If also the North Carolina operation switch to Airbus then there was major problem but if it stays with the St Nazaire activity it might be a god move for both.



Non French in France
User currently onlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30865 posts, RR: 86
Reply 67, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 69074 times:
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Quoting art (Reply 65):
The report in l'Express does mention an analyst saying Airbus were not happy with work done by Spirit.

As I understand it, the Saint-Nazaire plant assembles the pieces of Section 15, but the pieces themselves are manufactured by Spirit in Kinston, North Carolina and then shipped to S-N. In addition to Section 15, Spirit also designs and builds the composite front wing spar and fixed leading edge for the A350 XWB at Kinston and then ships them to the UK.

So is Airbus not happy with how the workers at Saint-Nazaire are assembling the pieces arriving from Kinston? Or are they not happy with the production rate at Kinston?

In July 2012, A350 project manager Didier Evrard did mention issues with suppliers, but he did say they had been solved. At the same time, Spirit CEO Jeff Turner noted that they were working to improve the efficiency of A350 parts production.

[Edited 2013-03-15 13:36:47]

User currently offlineferpe From France, joined Nov 2010, 2803 posts, RR: 59
Reply 68, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 69094 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 67):
them to Brighton in the UK

It should be Prestwick Scotland, it is the old Scottish aviation/BAE site that Spirit has acquired ( I know cause I have flown one of their types  ) . Brighton is on the English south coast, quite a different environment then Glasgow  Wow! .



Non French in France
User currently onlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30865 posts, RR: 86
Reply 69, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 68977 times:
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Quoting ferpe (Reply 68):

I was thinking Bristol, but must have had last night's Midsomer Murders still on the mind (the new DCI is from Brighton).

But yes, I see Spirit has their assembly facility in Prestwick. I take it the completed ship-sets then go to Bristol?


User currently offlineferpe From France, joined Nov 2010, 2803 posts, RR: 59
Reply 70, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 68742 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 69):
I take it the completed ship-sets then go to Bristol?

They go to Broughton where the production is, it is in north Wales. The wing design team and the GKN rear spar production is in Bristol (both descendants of the venerable Bristol aircraft aka BAC aka BAE aka A aka GKN for one team  )



Non French in France
User currently offlineTheRedBaron From Mexico, joined Mar 2005, 2204 posts, RR: 8
Reply 71, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 68476 times:

Excuse if it has been asked before, but the wing design was made at Filton or its German designed?


The best seat in a Plane is the Jumpseat.
User currently offlineferpe From France, joined Nov 2010, 2803 posts, RR: 59
Reply 72, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 19 hours ago) and read 67539 times:

Quoting TheRedBaron (Reply 71):
Excuse if it has been asked before, but the wing design was made at Filton or its German designed?

Both, the wing design (the cruise shape and pressure distribution, drag etc ) is done at Filton and the high lift competence center is at Bremen, at least that is how it is described in presentations and open literature. So the slat, droop nose, flap and droop aileron movements and shapes and their resultant lift and drag characteristics are all defined at Bremen. Where the structure is designed I am more unsure about but I would guess Filton (Bristol) for the overall wing like wingbox etc with a lot of input from Bremen for loads on the leading and trailing edges. All the high lift components should be Bremen.

Perhaps we have someone in the know that can complement.



Non French in France
User currently offlineferpe From France, joined Nov 2010, 2803 posts, RR: 59
Reply 73, posted (1 year 5 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 65393 times:

There is a nice video clip from Hexcel about the CRFP parts on the A350 that the A350 site had in a post. The most interesting is perhaps that it has a complete rundown of where they are made:

http://wpc.1e6e.planetstream.net/001E6E/Hexcel.mp4



Non French in France
User currently offlineBongodog1964 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 3546 posts, RR: 3
Reply 74, posted (1 year 5 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 65194 times:

Quoting ferpe (Reply 73):
There is a nice video clip from Hexcel about the CRFP parts on the A350 that the A350 site had in a post. The most interesting is perhaps that it has a complete rundown of where they are made:

One interesting fact is that the resin films are manufactured in the Hexcel factory at Duxford. This site developed and manufactured the aerolite resin that held the WW2 DH Mosquito together, probably one of the 1st composite aircraft albeit a wood composite.


User currently offlinetrex8 From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 4745 posts, RR: 14
Reply 75, posted (1 year 5 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 63841 times:
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Quoting TheRedBaron (Reply 71):
Excuse if it has been asked before, but the wing design was made at Filton or its German designed?

IIRC UK has been responsible for all wing design on all Airbuses


User currently offlineferpe From France, joined Nov 2010, 2803 posts, RR: 59
Reply 76, posted (1 year 4 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 62046 times:

Me thinks it has been very quiet around A350, last post was over 3 days ago    (talk about us living in the info world, cracking up for 3 days silence  ).

Ponchos AVIA forum has this picture of the A350 rear galleys, he better fill in what we see  Wow! :



BTW, shouldn't station 18 be history soon??



Non French in France
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 11204 posts, RR: 33
Reply 77, posted (1 year 4 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 62150 times:

Quoting ferpe (Reply 76):
BTW, shouldn't station 18 be history soon??

Yes it's very quiet. MSN001 now doubled the A330 parking time at station 18.

However, we don't know for sure if she is still parked at station 18. Going from station 18 to the paint hanger is not very excited (expect for the people here on the forum), so maybe the next announcement will come after painting?

[Edited 2013-03-25 15:06:11]


Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineairmagnac From Germany, joined Apr 2012, 307 posts, RR: 44
Reply 78, posted (1 year 4 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 61950 times:

Quoting ferpe (Reply 76):
shouldn't station 18 be history soon??
Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 77):
MSN001 now doubled the A330 parking time at station 18

Keep in mind that in addition to the standard testing performed on a series aircraft, there is a whole bunch of other things to do :
- test instrumentation calibration,
- gross calibration of various systems (radios, nav, air data, air conditioning valves, etc...),
- lots of specific ground tests to be run,
- some tests that need to be re-run to confirm a failure,
- previously failed tests that must be re-run following a solution,
- late changes due to problems found during tests (on MSN1 itself, or the armada of simulators)
and so on...

There may be a move tomorrow, but it may also only be in another few weeks !

"Patience is bitter, but its fruit is sweet." Or something like that  



One "oh shit" can erase a thousand "attaboys".
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 11204 posts, RR: 33
Reply 79, posted (1 year 4 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 61208 times:

Quoting airmagnac (Reply 78):
"Patience is bitter, but its fruit is sweet." Or something like that

I asked a spotter if he could have a look and he replied:

Quote:
she is currently in a hangar and will move for pait begining of april. today eveninig there is the msn 5000 ( Pamela), for structural test moving away from toulouse.


So painting next week. I'm not sure why MSN5000 would move away from TLS, maybe the static tests will begin?

[Edited 2013-03-26 00:31:31]


Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineAviaponcho From France, joined Aug 2011, 613 posts, RR: 8
Reply 80, posted (1 year 4 months 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 60797 times:

Quoting ferpe (Reply 76):

Thank you Ferpe, it's from an old flightglobal article
There as already been a lot of drama on the rear galley, the initial galley proposed by Airbus has been rejected by Airlines
The final galley might be different, or there might be other options


User currently offlineferpe From France, joined Nov 2010, 2803 posts, RR: 59
Reply 81, posted (1 year 4 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 60246 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 79):
So painting next week. I'm not sure why MSN5000 would move away from TLS

Good, then Station 18 is finished, after some checks (or paint preparations) we will have paint, then Station 20 to hang engines and last preparations before taxi tests. I kind of can't see how they could spend rest of April, May and half June (Bourget starts on 17th) without flying    , seems like a lot of taxiing    .

Me thinks Enders and Bregier is carrying a lot of bags with sand in them   

Re MSN5000, if it takes from Dec to March to hook her up I can't believe they then would move her, I think he translated "ils demarrent" = "they start" wrongly somehow.

[Edited 2013-03-26 04:49:41]


Non French in France
User currently offlinestarbucks From Netherlands, joined Feb 2013, 698 posts, RR: 6
Reply 82, posted (1 year 4 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 60146 times:

Early April paint, lets say about a week? (They're doing an A380 in about 1,5/2 weeks if I'm correct)

A bit of negativity saying that she enters the paintshop on Friday (April 5th), plus a week makes April 12...
2 weeks for engines and tests...

Rollout ceremony last week April? Or maybe May 1st (nice date?)



A350 logbook: http://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AlVgPnmHLOovdFdzbVlyQzhYNDhCb1VFN1RkYXkwV3c&output=html
User currently offlinequeb From Canada, joined May 2010, 663 posts, RR: 3
Reply 83, posted (1 year 4 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 60298 times:

engines installed

link (in french): http://midi-pyrenees.france3.fr/2013...teurs-sur-son-a350-xwb-223077.html

User currently offlinestarbucks From Netherlands, joined Feb 2013, 698 posts, RR: 6
Reply 84, posted (1 year 4 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 60185 times:

Quoting queb (Reply 83):
engines installed

NICE!!! Earlier than expected and they're apparently not following the production process they published. (Maybe that's only for series production)

So if paint is still early April we might see a rollout in 2/3 weeks? :O 

[Edited 2013-03-26 05:05:02]


A350 logbook: http://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AlVgPnmHLOovdFdzbVlyQzhYNDhCb1VFN1RkYXkwV3c&output=html
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 11204 posts, RR: 33
Reply 85, posted (1 year 4 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 60154 times:

Quoting ferpe (Reply 81):
Good, then Station 18 is finished

I agree.

Quoting ferpe (Reply 81):
after some checks (or paint preparations) we will have paint

MSN001 is now in "a hanger", probably for some checks and/or paint preparations indeed.

Quoting ferpe (Reply 81):
then Station 20 to hang engines and last preparations before taxi tests

Engines can be attached within a day. Let's say they take a week for it because it's a new airplane and they want to make sure everything is correct etc. Also done at station 20 is cockipit furnishing. The cockpit picture of October 2012 has shown us that the cockip is as good as complete, I guess they need only to install 2 more chairs and a closet maybe?

1 week for painting and 2 - 3 weeks for station 20 worst case = roll out somewhere in the second half of April.

Quoting ferpe (Reply 81):
I kind of can't see how they could spend rest of April, May and half June (Bourget starts on 17th) without flying    , seems like a lot of taxiing    .

Now that's the only thing I don't want to put my money on  It took the first A380 about 3 months from roll out (January 2005) to first flight (April 2005), and even Bombardier feels they need about 2 months to prepare the first flight. Extensive ground testing can take a while.



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 11204 posts, RR: 33
Reply 86, posted (1 year 4 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 60157 times:

Quoting queb (Reply 83):
engines installed

Wait, wut?? Engine attachment should be done after painting.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 85):
MSN001 is now in "a hanger", probably for some checks and/or paint preparations indeed.

Now we know, "that hanger" is station 20 Big grin

[Edited 2013-03-26 05:12:12]


Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineAviaponcho From France, joined Aug 2011, 613 posts, RR: 8
Reply 87, posted (1 year 4 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 60112 times:

No need to paint if they want to fly before 787 battery flight test  

Good news indeed and nice pics

Painting is a matter of day isn't it ?


User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 11204 posts, RR: 33
Reply 88, posted (1 year 4 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 60071 times:

It's a nice surprise indeed; so they did the outdoor ground tests and installed the engines all in 1 month. Things are progressing well.


Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineferpe From France, joined Nov 2010, 2803 posts, RR: 59
Reply 89, posted (1 year 4 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 59983 times:

And then here Station 20 today, first roll engine to pylon:



Then hang it  :




Non French in France
User currently offlineBoeingVista From Australia, joined Jan 2009, 1575 posts, RR: 3
Reply 90, posted (1 year 4 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 59915 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 85):
Engines can be attached within a day. Let's say they take a week for it because it's a new airplane and they want to make sure everything is correct etc.

According to the link they started with the night shift and had them both hung by lunch time..

Maybe time for us to start looking at EU leaders diaries to see when they have a window to come watch circ du soleil unveil an aircraft in TLS.

Quoting ferpe (Reply 81):
Good, then Station 18 is finished, after some checks (or paint preparations) we will have paint, then Station 20 to hang engines and last preparations before taxi tests. I kind of can't see how they could spend rest of April, May and half June (Bourget starts on 17th) without flying , seems like a lot of taxiing .

Me thinks Enders and Bregier is carrying a lot of bags with sand in them

No one wants to jinx it, but I also find it hard to see what they will find to do on the ground for 10 weeks..



BV
User currently offlinestarbucks From Netherlands, joined Feb 2013, 698 posts, RR: 6
Reply 91, posted (1 year 4 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 59857 times:

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 90):

Maybe time for us to start looking at EU leaders diaries to see when they have a window to come watch circ du soleil unveil an aircraft in TLS.

Haha indeed, Especially Hollande (France), Merkel (Germany), Cameron (UK) and Rajoy (Spain)



A350 logbook: http://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AlVgPnmHLOovdFdzbVlyQzhYNDhCb1VFN1RkYXkwV3c&output=html
User currently offlineAviaponcho From France, joined Aug 2011, 613 posts, RR: 8
Reply 92, posted (1 year 4 months 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 59880 times:

Waiting for the euro to go below 1.25 € / 1 $ ?  

They might need to finish power on
Finally, the engine seats rather low above the ground !

Ferpe this T XWB was marketed as 10% SFC below GE90 (GE9094 I guess)
GE90X will be 10% below GE90 (GE90-115   )


User currently offlinestarbucks From Netherlands, joined Feb 2013, 698 posts, RR: 6
Reply 93, posted (1 year 4 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 59714 times:

Quoting Aviaponcho (Reply 92):
Finally, the engine seats rather low above the ground !

According to: http://www.airbus.com/fileadmin/medi...ch_data/AC/Airbus-ACA350-Jan13.pdf

At Maximum Ramp Mass the engine ground clearance is between 74cm (forward CG) and 75cm (aft CG)



A350 logbook: http://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AlVgPnmHLOovdFdzbVlyQzhYNDhCb1VFN1RkYXkwV3c&output=html
User currently offlinequeb From Canada, joined May 2010, 663 posts, RR: 3
Reply 94, posted (1 year 4 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 59694 times:

From Airbus website:

http://www.airbus.com/fileadmin/media_gallery/photogallery/big/800x600_1364299415_A350_XWB_Trent_engine_mounting1.jpg

http://www.airbus.com/fileadmin/media_gallery/photogallery/big/800x600_1364299418_A350_XWB_Trent_Engine_mounting4.jpg

http://www.airbus.com/fileadmin/media_gallery/photogallery/big/800x600_1364299417_A350_XWB_Trent_Engine_mounting2.jpg


User currently offlineAviaponcho From France, joined Aug 2011, 613 posts, RR: 8
Reply 95, posted (1 year 4 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 59582 times:

Yes I know
I've done some comparison in december (in french ; key word for google : garde au sol A330 A350 777)
It's the same ground clearance as 777-300ER


User currently offlinequeb From Canada, joined May 2010, 663 posts, RR: 3
Reply 96, posted (1 year 4 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 59657 times:

APU is also installed

Airbus installs Rolls-Royce Trent XWB engines and Honeywell APU on A350 XWB MSN001

http://www.airbus.com/newsevents/new...-honeywell-apu-on-a350-xwb-msn001/

[Edited 2013-03-26 06:18:55]

User currently offlinestarbucks From Netherlands, joined Feb 2013, 698 posts, RR: 6
Reply 97, posted (1 year 4 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 59637 times:

I'm surprised to read that they also just installed the APU.

http://www.airbus.com/newsevents/new...-honeywell-apu-on-a350-xwb-msn001/

I thought that it was installed at station 30.



A350 logbook: http://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AlVgPnmHLOovdFdzbVlyQzhYNDhCb1VFN1RkYXkwV3c&output=html
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 11204 posts, RR: 33
Reply 98, posted (1 year 4 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 59820 times:

Quoting queb (Reply 94):
From Airbus website:

Excelent   

The high-res pictures are available at http://www.airbus.com/galleries/photo-gallery/
Now we can zoom in a bit 



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineovercast From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 160 posts, RR: 0
Reply 99, posted (1 year 4 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 59629 times:

Quoting queb (Reply 96):

http://www.airbus.com/newsevents/new...-honeywell-apu-on-a350-xwb-msn001/

From this Press release it doesn't sound like they are planning a big rollout ceremony. Maybe the focus is on First Flight, Flight Test and Delivery.

That would make a refreshing change.


User currently offlineferpe From France, joined Nov 2010, 2803 posts, RR: 59
Reply 100, posted (1 year 4 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 59735 times:

Quoting Aviaponcho (Reply 92):
Ferpe this T XWB was marketed as 10% SFC below GE90 (GE9094 I guess)
GE90X will be 10% below GE90 (GE90-115 )

That is right, I have them as best value (at about FL370) GE90-94 0.57 (PIPed a bit), the GE90-115 at 0.55, TXWB 0.52 and the GE9X 0.495



Non French in France
User currently offlineBoeingVista From Australia, joined Jan 2009, 1575 posts, RR: 3
Reply 101, posted (1 year 4 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 59697 times:

Quoting overcast (Reply 99):
From this Press release it doesn't sound like they are planning a big rollout ceremony. Maybe the focus is on First Flight, Flight Test and Delivery.

That would make a refreshing change.

I would imagine that the usual suspects..

Quoting starbucks (Reply 91):
Especially Hollande (France), Merkel (Germany), Cameron (UK) and Rajoy (Spain)

Will demand some face time with a successful pan European project, but if Airbus really want a grand unveiling why not do it at Le Bourget? Now wouldn't that be something..



BV
User currently onlineAngMoh From Singapore, joined Nov 2011, 482 posts, RR: 0
Reply 102, posted (1 year 4 months 4 weeks ago) and read 59855 times:

Quoting ferpe (Reply 100):
That is right, I have them as best value (at about FL370) GE90-94 0.57 (PIPed a bit), the GE90-115 at 0.55, TXWB 0.52 and the GE9X 0.495

Do these numbers actually make sense in real life? The numbers don't stand still and they are all based on different years. Today's TXWB will not be the same as the TXWB delivered in the same year as the GE9X will be delivered and also the GE90-115 delivered in 2018 will be better than GE90-115 delivered today.

The best example is the A330: no major new wing, no new engines, no special materials and still today's A330 is enormously better than the first one 20 years ago or even thous built 10 years ago. Airbus actually indicated that continuous improvements is way forward rather than brand new designs or big overhauls as the risks and the costs associated with them are not worth the returns they give.


User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 11204 posts, RR: 33
Reply 103, posted (1 year 4 months 4 weeks ago) and read 59846 times:

Quoting ferpe (Reply 81):
Re MSN5000, if it takes from Dec to March to hook her up I can't believe they then would move her, I think he translated "ils demarrent" = "they start" wrongly somehow.

That must be it. Static tests would start in March.

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 90):
According to the link they started with the night shift and had them both hung by lunch time..

Ignore my post, I wrote it before queb shared the link. The engines were prepared in advance so the only thing the team has to do is attaching them   



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineAviaponcho From France, joined Aug 2011, 613 posts, RR: 8
Reply 104, posted (1 year 4 months 4 weeks ago) and read 59763 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 103):

And to put nacelle fairing on


User currently offlineBoeingVista From Australia, joined Jan 2009, 1575 posts, RR: 3
Reply 105, posted (1 year 4 months 4 weeks ago) and read 59813 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 103):
Ignore my post, I wrote it before queb shared the link. The engines were prepared in advance so the only thing the team has to do is attaching them
Quoting Aviaponcho (Reply 104):
And to put nacelle fairing on

Looking at the pictures most of the belly fairing was also removed, any idea why this would be?



BV
User currently offlineferpe From France, joined Nov 2010, 2803 posts, RR: 59
Reply 106, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 59782 times:

Quoting AngMoh (Reply 102):
Do these numbers actually make sense in real life? The numbers don't stand still and they are all based on different years. Today's TXWB will not be the same as the TXWB delivered in the same year as the GE9X will be delivered and also the GE90-115 delivered in 2018 will be better than GE90-115 delivered today.

Let me first say these are my estimates based on a number of cross-checks, it can be close but also some way off. And yes the engines get better over time, the GE90 values are those I believe they have today when new from factory (they deteriorate 2-4 % before overhaul) and they have had numerous upgrades, not all for performance. The TXWB is not at it's target value yet (according to RR and A) but both say it will be by EIS and the GE9X fly on ppt and will be in the 0.49-0.5 region by 2019. Where the TXWB will be by 2020 when the GE9X flies one can speculate over.



Non French in France
User currently offlineferpe From France, joined Nov 2010, 2803 posts, RR: 59
Reply 107, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 59779 times:

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 105):
Looking at the pictures most of the belly fairing was also removed, any idea why this would be?

They are working on numerous places on the frame, the fairing of the fin base is also taken off. Re wing-root one can speculate that they have test points there for a number of electrical, hydraulic, air and fuel lines to check that all the connections at the engine side turned out OK, you need to verify that somehow and I would not do it in the pylon, I would prefer a longer run before I apply the check means.



Non French in France
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 11204 posts, RR: 33
Reply 108, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 59631 times:

Quoting starbucks (Reply 84):
So if paint is still early April we might see a rollout in 2/3 weeks? :O

MSN001 is in station 20 so painting is now the last assembly step. This changes the gambling, I can see her rolling out in 2 weeks from now.

Before MSN001 entered final assembly, Aviation Week reported that the roll out date was set for April 2013. It seems to look like they will meet the target. I'm still surprised about the smooth assembly process, as far as we know there were no hiccups.



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineBoeingVista From Australia, joined Jan 2009, 1575 posts, RR: 3
Reply 109, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 59657 times:

Quoting ferpe (Reply 107):

I guess that they are still building her   Its quite funny to see plug connectors hanging from the pylons ready for connection to the TXWB, we truly are witnessing the birth of an airplane.



BV
User currently offlineSKAirbus From Norway, joined Oct 2007, 1701 posts, RR: 1
Reply 110, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 59418 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 108):
Before MSN001 entered final assembly, Aviation Week reported that the roll out date was set for April 2013. It seems to look like they will meet the target. I'm still surprised about the smooth assembly process, as far as we know there were no hiccups.

On the back of the 787 debacle and the A380 delays, I think Airbus are very keen to give the impression of everything running smoothly. Let's hope they have set themselves conservative targets so it won't end up going down the same route. Airlines are becoming increasingly difficult to impress nowadays!



Next Flights: LGW-SVG (738-DY), SVG-LHR (319-BA), LHR-HKG (388-BA), HKG-SYD (333-CX), SYD-HKG (333-CX), HKG-LHR (388-BA)
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 11204 posts, RR: 33
Reply 111, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 59256 times:

Quoting overcast (Reply 99):
From this Press release it doesn't sound like they are planning a big rollout ceremony. Maybe the focus is on First Flight, Flight Test and Delivery.

What is your definition of a big ceremony? The A380 ceremony was done in a simple hanger.

Just put some seats and scaffolding in the paint hanger, invite the press, customers and some government people and you're done.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UHJ5OZIzOc



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlinestarbucks From Netherlands, joined Feb 2013, 698 posts, RR: 6
Reply 112, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 59192 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 111):
What is your definition of a big ceremony? The A380 ceremony was done in a simple hanger.

I would say/hope for something like the A350 FAL inauguration, complete with livestream, social media coverage, etc. 



A350 logbook: http://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AlVgPnmHLOovdFdzbVlyQzhYNDhCb1VFN1RkYXkwV3c&output=html
User currently offlineovercast From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 160 posts, RR: 0
Reply 113, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 59025 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 111):
What is your definition of a big ceremony? The A380 ceremony was done in a simple hanger.

By big I mean having the Political Big Wigs(Hollande, Merkel etc) attend, and having the light show etc that we had with the A380.

I'd hope for a more low key thing. Just get the thing painted and ready for the flight test crew to go fly.


User currently offlineTheRedBaron From Mexico, joined Mar 2005, 2204 posts, RR: 8
Reply 114, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 58514 times:

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 105):
Looking at the pictures most of the belly fairing was also removed, any idea why this would be?

They are taking out the Home depot fasteners      

Sorry could not resist...

I really wish Airbus would surprise everyone with a new livery paint.... the blue one is getting boring...

TRB



The best seat in a Plane is the Jumpseat.
User currently offlinePW100 From Netherlands, joined Jan 2002, 2431 posts, RR: 12
Reply 115, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 58314 times:

Quoting ferpe (Reply 81):
I kind of can't see how they could spend rest of April, May and half June (Bourget starts on 17th) without flying , seems like a lot of taxiing .

Me thinks Enders and Bregier is carrying a lot of bags with sand in them
Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 85):
It took the first A380 about 3 months from roll out (January 2005) to first flight (April 2005), and even Bombardier feels they need about 2 months to prepare the first flight. Extensive ground testing can take a while

And then to think that it took the A320 just eight (!!) days from roll out to first flight . . .

Roll out: 14 Feb 1987
First flight : 22 Feb 1987
JAA certification: 26 Feb 1988


PW100



Immigration officer: "What's the purpose of your visit to the USA?" Spotter: "Shooting airliners with my Canon!"
User currently offlineastuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 9998 posts, RR: 96
Reply 116, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 58396 times:
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Quoting ferpe (Reply 106):
The TXWB is not at it's target value yet (according to RR and A)

Do you have any links to this Ferpe? I was under the impression that the TXWB was performing well within target

http://www.aviationweek.com/Article....e-xml/AW_02_18_2013_p34-548404.xml

Quote:
Rolls says initial results from testing of the Trent XWB-84s delivered to Toulouse for installation on the first A350-900 show fuel-burn performance meets specification and is slightly improved over that seen on earlier flight-test units.

So i'll call you on that one..  

Rgds


User currently offlineEPA001 From Netherlands, joined Sep 2006, 4721 posts, RR: 39
Reply 117, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 57629 times:
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Quoting astuteman (Reply 116):
Do you have any links to this Ferpe? I was under the impression that the TXWB was performing well within target

That was my impression as well. No doubt Ferpe will find something to back that up. He is such an asset to this wonderful Internet-forum.  .

Quoting ferpe (Reply 76):
Me thinks it has been very quiet around A350, last post was over 3 days ago (talk about us living in the info world, cracking up for 3 days silence  ).

Be careful what you wish for Ferpe. Suddenly lots of things are happening in a positive way.  .


User currently offlineferpe From France, joined Nov 2010, 2803 posts, RR: 59
Reply 118, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 57382 times:

Quoting astuteman (Reply 116):
So i'll call you on that one..

Sure , you cut the quote short of the important next sentence:

Rolls Trent XWB program director Chris Young says, “We are well on track to meet our targets for entry into service. So it is looking good on fuel consumption.”

which happens to be the same sentence that Fabrice Bregier put forward at Global Investor forum Dec 2012. On a question from the audience re his TXWB "good performance" on slide 9 he said that the TSFC was not quite there for the flight test engines but would be for EIS, check out the audio from that session.



Non French in France
User currently offlineAviaponcho From France, joined Aug 2011, 613 posts, RR: 8
Reply 119, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 57158 times:

Being on spec at EIS is no smal feat compared to the 787...
I suspect it implies :
- weight creep as been limited (I feel that part of the engine problem on the 787 is the increase weight that is increasing SFC and fuel burn)
- no over promise from RR to Airbus or no foolish requirement by Airbus to RR

Sounds good isn't it ?


User currently offlineAviaponcho From France, joined Aug 2011, 613 posts, RR: 8
Reply 120, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 57128 times:

And what about MSN3, and others ?
First flight on time is one thing, but full fleet of test aircrafts on time is necessary for a non delayed EIS


User currently offlineastuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 9998 posts, RR: 96
Reply 121, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 56881 times:
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Quoting ferpe (Reply 118):
On a question from the audience re his TXWB "good performance" on slide 9 he said that the TSFC was not quite there for the flight test engines but would be for EIS, check out the audio from that session.

Which says the same as ....

Quoting astuteman (Reply 116):
Rolls says initial results from testing of the Trent XWB-84s delivered to Toulouse for installation on the first A350-900 show fuel-burn performance meets specification and is slightly improved over that seen on earlier flight-test units.

i.e. the ones that have been flight testing on the A380 test-bed may not hav been quite there, but the ones being installed on the very first A350-900 to fly will meet spec.

"First A350-900" and "fuel burn performance meets specification" in the same sentence. I'm not sure what else there is to be important..  

Either way, by 2019 the TXWB will have moved a long way on from where it is on MSN001, without question   

Rgds


User currently offlineRickNRoll From Afghanistan, joined Jan 2012, 807 posts, RR: 0
Reply 122, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 56582 times:

Quoting astuteman (Reply 121):
Either way, by 2019 the TXWB will have moved a long way on from where it is on MSN001, without question

Which in engine performance terms means usually means a few percent.


User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 11204 posts, RR: 33
Reply 123, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 56005 times:

A video of the engine installation on MSN001:

http://www.airbus.com/presscentre/pressroom/broadcastroom/ (click "Enter the Broadcast room").

[Edited 2013-03-27 01:15:06]


Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently onlineparapente From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2006, 1559 posts, RR: 10
Reply 124, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 55437 times:

Reply 116 - from article - 25% improvement seat fuel burn on a 773er? Thats a huge amount - find that hard to believe really. I could see it on comparison against the older 772er but not the 773er. However they have said it not me. They will sell like hot cakes if that is prooved to be the case in the air.

I guess the reason Rolls has hit target so easily is jusy how much they have learned and are learning from the Trent 1000 programme. I think the final PIPed version is about to come out (I forget it's name) which finally meets/excedes the origonal targets.

All of this must have found it's way into what is a scaled up version really (the XWB).


On an aside with the XWB being such a good engine (it appears) it may increase pressure to do the inevitable and put it on the 380. Not only would it create an enormous step in efficiency it would bring the 2 aircraft families together. That has to be appealing to long distance airline carriers I would have thought.


User currently offlinena From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10677 posts, RR: 9
Reply 125, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 55417 times:

Wings and tail fine, but the nose of this plane is truly ugly, the worst "face" of any widebody built so far.

[Edited 2013-03-27 03:20:56]

User currently offlineEPA001 From Netherlands, joined Sep 2006, 4721 posts, RR: 39
Reply 126, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 55398 times:
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Quoting parapente (Reply 124):
from article - 25% improvement seat fuel burn on a 773er? Thats a huge amount - find that hard to believe really.

Not really. And that number has come from Airbus since they are marketing the A350-1000.

Technology has moved on quite a long way since the B77W was designed and build. Of course incremental improvements further bettered her performance, but it is way off to compete with the A350-1000. For that reason the B777-8X/9X are under development.

And the A350-1000 is a lot lighter and more aerodynamically shaped then the B77W. Thanks to new materials and designing and construction technologies being used in the airplane. Even with the same level of engine technology only these basic improved qualities compared to the B77W would make the A350-1000 easy 15% better in fuel consumption on a per seat basis. Add the latest in engine technology (which also do not need to generate the awesome power of the GE90-115B engines) I can easily see that 25% mark being achieved.

Even the bigger B777-9X will only need 100,000 lbs of thrust compared to the 115,000 lbs of thrust the current B77W requires. So I don't doubt that percentage number from Airbus at all. Especially if all is already up to spec according to the official statements made by Airbus and Rolls-Royce.  .


User currently offlinenomadd22 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 1846 posts, RR: 0
Reply 127, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 55376 times:

I know English isn't the only language in play here, but target and specification aren't the same thing.


Andy Goetsch
User currently offlinestarbucks From Netherlands, joined Feb 2013, 698 posts, RR: 6
Reply 128, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 54984 times:

On Twitter:

Quoting @FlightDKM:

#Airbus coughs up a shot of the #A350 starboard engine fit, promising a photo of the whole aircraft tomorrow: http://twitpic.com/cerhtz

Maybe change from Station 20 to paint? Or maybe just a picture of the whole aircraft in the hangar...  



A350 logbook: http://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AlVgPnmHLOovdFdzbVlyQzhYNDhCb1VFN1RkYXkwV3c&output=html
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 11204 posts, RR: 33
Reply 129, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 54815 times:

Quoting starbucks (Reply 128):
Or maybe just a picture of the whole aircraft in the hangar...

That makes no sense, I think they will pull the a/c outside for a photoshoot.



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineferpe From France, joined Nov 2010, 2803 posts, RR: 59
Reply 130, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 54854 times:

Quoting starbucks (Reply 128):
Maybe change from Station 20 to paint? Or maybe just a picture of the whole aircraft in the hangar...

We will see, me thinks transport to painting    .

The video was really nice, it shows things that one does not see otherwise, here a bit of details:

Static discharge wicks on THE sharklets (the one and only  ) :

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm262/ferpe_bucket/A350_XWB_Trent_Engine_mounting526032013_zps6fa15cd7.jpg


The pylon ready for engine mounting, clear to see the flap drop hinge linkage (inner flap, outer hinge) and the busy front and trailing edge areas with the slat torque shaft drive, also the engine rear mount:

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm262/ferpe_bucket/A350_XWB_Trent_Engine_mounting6_zps033d8e62.jpg


Then the proof that we are in the Station 20 hall of the 330 line, HAL 332 in the background. Also APU doors open + hatch and ladder to rear cone for APU mounting work. Also the very flat sides of the rear cone, makes away with shrouds on the VTP. On right picture, the ingenious CART-Jacks that lift the whole TXWB trolley, guess it can micro-maneuver in all 4 directions also to get engine mountings lined up:

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm262/ferpe_bucket/A350_XWB_Trent_Engine_mounting926032013_zps0d67bda8.jpg


Then the engine mountings, the engine side shackle is there for the aft mount but still missing on the fan case mount, in the middle the bleed air pre-cooler duct where the cooling air taken from the bypass is cooling the engine bleed air:

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm262/ferpe_bucket/A350_XWB_Trent_Engine_mounting826032013_zps58b94e42.jpg

[Edited 2013-03-27 06:58:14]


Non French in France
User currently offlineastuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 9998 posts, RR: 96
Reply 131, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 54199 times:
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Quoting nomadd22 (Reply 127):
I know English isn't the only language in play here, but target and specification aren't the same thing.

I would have thought that by definition the specification was the first target.

If you had suggested that "specification" and "guarantees" were different things, I would readily agree  

Rgds


User currently offlineBoeingVista From Australia, joined Jan 2009, 1575 posts, RR: 3
Reply 132, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 53927 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 123):

A video of the engine installation on MSN001:

http://www.airbus.com/presscentre/pressroom/broadcastroom/ (click "Enter the Broadcast room").

Very interesting video, I guess from Airbuses point of view if things are going well you might as well show it, in comparison the 787 was built as a black project.

For geek spotter points I offer that the engine delivery trolley is marked A350/ T1700 so it looks like RR internally have retained the Trent 1700 name that was to have powered the original A350.

Quoting nomadd22 (Reply 127):
I know English isn't the only language in play here, but target and specification aren't the same thing.


They absolutely can be the same thing.

[Edited 2013-03-27 10:19:15]


BV
User currently offlineferpe From France, joined Nov 2010, 2803 posts, RR: 59
Reply 133, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 53952 times:

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 132):
For geek spotter points

  



Non French in France
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 11204 posts, RR: 33
Reply 134, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 53752 times:

The Bourget organisers today confirmed that the A350 (and Bombardier Cseries) will not be present at the Paris air show.

[Edited 2013-03-27 11:33:31]


Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineHeavierthanair From Switzerland, joined Oct 2000, 795 posts, RR: 0
Reply 135, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 53652 times:

G´day

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 134):
The Bourget organisers today confirmed that the A350 (and Bombardier Cseries) will not be at the Paris airshow.

Presumably Airbus would have no problem getting the A 350 into the Le Bourget show at half an hours notice. Same is probably true for Bombardier.   

These shows live from the exhibitors, not the other way round  


Cheers

Peter



"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." (Albert Einstein, 1879
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 11204 posts, RR: 33
Reply 136, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 53703 times:

Quoting ferpe (Reply 81):
Re MSN5000, if it takes from Dec to March to hook her up I can't believe they then would move her, I think he translated "ils demarrent" = "they start" wrongly somehow.

It was MSN5001! The EF1 nose section has now arrived in Toulouse.







Pictures uploaded by http://www.flickr.com/photos/florent_peraudeau



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineferpe From France, joined Nov 2010, 2803 posts, RR: 59
Reply 137, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 53329 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 136):
The EF1 nose section has now arrived in Toulouse.

Great network of spotters you have    , this makes 100% sense, EF1 shall be tested in TLS, must hae gone from St Nazaire to TLS by road. I seem to remeber the other section have been delivered , at least the wing+center section (EF2) to Munich. The aft body (EF3) stays at Hamburg, difficult for the official .net oversight organization = us    to check  :

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm262/ferpe_bucket/A350staticandfatiguetestunitsjpg_zps88786509.png



Non French in France
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 11204 posts, RR: 33
Reply 138, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 53177 times:

Quoting ferpe (Reply 137):
I seem to remeber the other section have been delivered , at least the wing+center section (EF2) to Munich.

Yes, the EF2 center fusulage section was spotted in St Nazaire on March 6 and should be in Munich by now.

Quoting ferpe (Reply 137):
The aft body (EF3) stays at Hamburg, difficult for the official .net oversight organization = us    to check  :

Yeah, I'm afraid we will never see the EF3 section.



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlinePihero From France, joined Jan 2005, 4402 posts, RR: 76
Reply 139, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 52962 times:

Quoting ferpe (Reply 130):
Then the engine mountings, the engine side shackle is there for the aft mount but still missing on the fan case mount,

Never cease to maze me how fragile looking these mountings are.
Great work ,everybody.
I'm looking forward to the roll out - to see her in all her glory ! - but it will be a sad day as it will see the end of the greatest thread on A.net ever...
Unless we'll keep on monitoring the flight tests !?!?
... and the first deliveries ?!?!?



Contrail designer
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 11204 posts, RR: 33
Reply 140, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 52954 times:

Quoting Pihero (Reply 139):
see the end of the greatest thread on A.net ever...
Unless we'll keep on monitoring the flight tests !?!?
... and the first deliveries ?!?!?

The end? This is just the beginning  We have to track assembly of MSN 2, 3, 4 & 5 too. And then the first customer frame (MSN 6). And of course the flight testing itself.



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineAviaponcho From France, joined Aug 2011, 613 posts, RR: 8
Reply 141, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 52866 times:

Helas Pihero

But you must have forgotten the A350-1000, the -800
The NEO's
And maybe Airbus will launch other products... A310/300 Replacement, A380-900
And I will be happy to see such a thread for the 777X

It seems that finally the A350 is ahead of the CS100 (speaking of the 1 st plane only), looks like power on is more advanced on the Airbus


User currently offlineferpe From France, joined Nov 2010, 2803 posts, RR: 59
Reply 142, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 52693 times:

Quoting Pihero (Reply 139):
I'm looking forward to the roll out - to see her in all her glory ! - but it will be a sad day as it will see the end of the greatest thread on A.net ever...

The A350-1000 has EIS 2017 (if it is on time    ...) so we will go on for a while ...   



Non French in France
User currently offlinePihero From France, joined Jan 2005, 4402 posts, RR: 76
Reply 143, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 52693 times:

     
Ok ! Ok !
I surrender.
T'was also a bit provocative... and, yes we still have so much to share.
Can't wait to see her out of the painting room !



Contrail designer
User currently offlinePW100 From Netherlands, joined Jan 2002, 2431 posts, RR: 12
Reply 144, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 52549 times:

Quoting EPA001 (Reply 126):
Even the bigger B777-9X will only need 100,000 lbs of thrust compared to the 115,000 lbs of thrust the current B77W requires

Not to go too far off topic, but I'm firmly in the "believe it when I see it - camp " if a pre-2020 EIS 8500nm-405 pax (no cargo) 777-9X will make it with just 100,000 lbs thrust. I can easily see that crawl up to at least 105.000 lbs. In fact, I think even that would be monumental achievement for Boeing. I'll be happy to be surprised though . . . kudos to the engineers!

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 132):
For geek spotter points I offer that the engine delivery trolley is marked A350/ T1700 so it looks like RR internally have retained the Trent 1700 name that was to have powered the original A350

Great catch! Surprising though, as even EASA considers it to be a Trent XWB:
Official models:
Trent XWB-75
Trent XWB-79
Trent XWB-79B
Trent XWB-84
http://www.easa.europa.eu/certificat...XWB_Series_engines-01-07022013.pdf

PW100



Immigration officer: "What's the purpose of your visit to the USA?" Spotter: "Shooting airliners with my Canon!"
User currently offlinerj777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 1799 posts, RR: 2
Reply 145, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 52411 times:

They keep this up, we might have rollout really soon!

User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 11204 posts, RR: 33
Reply 146, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 52433 times:

Yes but when will that be   I wouldn't be surprised if we won't see any pictures of the painted aircraft before the unveiling ceremony.


Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offline817Dreamliiner From Montserrat, joined Jul 2008, 2292 posts, RR: 1
Reply 147, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 52332 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 146):
I wouldn't be surprised if we won't see any pictures of the painted aircraft before the unveiling ceremony.

Who knows? Someone might be able to sneak a photo or 2    



Reality be Rent. Synapse, break! Vanishment, This World!
User currently onlineAngMoh From Singapore, joined Nov 2011, 482 posts, RR: 0
Reply 148, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 52135 times:

Quoting astuteman (Reply 131):
I would have thought that by definition the specification was the first target.

If you had suggested that "specification" and "guarantees" were different things, I would readily agree  

Rgds

To me "specification" and "guarantees" should be the same with the specification being the minimum numbers which should be achieved, while the targets are more ambitious of where you would like it to be. BTW only talking about performance specifications here. For stuff like dimensional specifications there are only specifications and no targets.


User currently offlineastuteman From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 9998 posts, RR: 96
Reply 149, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 51747 times:
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Quoting AngMoh (Reply 148):
To me "specification" and "guarantees" should be the same with the specification being the minimum numbers which should be achieved, while the targets are more ambitious of where you would like it to be

Surely "specification" means exactly what it says - i.e. the "specification" SFC required to make the "specification" range/payload - i.e. what Airbus publish as the "spec".

We've had arguments on here ad-nauseam about whether meeting guarantees means meeting spec. The concensus has usually been that the OEM keeps a percent or two up their sleeves between guarantee and specification, sensibly so.

So when we discuss the relationship between the performance of the Trent XWB and another engine, say, the GE9X, then I'm comfortable that we will be comparing "specification" with "specification".

Anything other than this comparison IMO is a distortion, and on here that would usually be aimed at a particular agenda.

Rgds


User currently offlinescbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12462 posts, RR: 46
Reply 150, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 51679 times:
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Quoting astuteman (Reply 149):
The concensus has usually been that the OEM keeps a percent or two up their sleeves between guarantee and specification, sensibly so.

Exactly what I would expect, especially in the early stages of a program when you have no real-World data. Even with today's very accurate modelling, OEMs do sometimes initially miss targets.

With the first batch of 787s significantly overweight and with engines not yet to 'spec', Boeing was very careful to note that the plane was still meeting its range and fuel consumption guarantees. Clearly, those guarantees were set lower than the design specs.



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlineknoxibus From France, joined Aug 2007, 259 posts, RR: 23
Reply 151, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 50729 times:
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Quoting ferpe (Reply 130):
Then the proof that we are in the Station 20 hall of the 330 line, HAL 332 in the background.

Actually no, the aircraft is in C63, it is a "working party" hangar close to the Gramont 2 (cabin fitting) stations 20 of the A330/A340 FAL.

This hangar is used for some outstanding works, or special testing, such as our dear MSN001. I remember seeing the first A380 for SIA in there being tested for EMI/EMC (we could not get too close).

Airbus has several such hangars around to perform special or extra work on aircraft in order not to clog up the normal FALs.

The HAL A332 must have been in there for some similar reasons.

Another example is for when A340 MSN1 flight test aircraft was being fitted with A350 acoustic panels, etc...



No matter what anybody tells you, words and ideas can change the world.
User currently offlinestarbucks From Netherlands, joined Feb 2013, 698 posts, RR: 6
Reply 152, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 51371 times:

Wondering if we will see that "promised" picture.. :P


A350 logbook: http://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AlVgPnmHLOovdFdzbVlyQzhYNDhCb1VFN1RkYXkwV3c&output=html
User currently offlineplanesmart From New Zealand, joined Dec 2004, 896 posts, RR: 0
Reply 153, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 50531 times:

Guarantees are always set below specifications. The former costs the manufacturer - the latter is best endeavours with no financial responsibility.

The former is a confidential part of the contract negotiations (not all customers receive the same guarantees, or the same financial consequences), while the latter is for the public and competition.


User currently offlineSemaex From Germany, joined Nov 2009, 823 posts, RR: 2
Reply 154, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 49539 times:

Question:
I've been driving by car to FRA yesterday while totally by chance I encountered a front section of an airliner loaded onto a truck. It clearly had 6 windows and obviously was packed in white sheets, so I couldn't identify it properly. Could it have been the A350?
Time was around 4pm at the intersection of A3/A66, the truck coming from the north going to the east.

Might also just be a boring sim mockup, but i hope not  



// You know you're an aviation enthusiast when you look at your neighbour's cars and think about fleet commonality.
User currently offlinea380900 From France, joined Dec 2003, 1110 posts, RR: 1
Reply 155, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 48832 times:

Weren't we supposed to have a pic of the finished plane today?

User currently offlinea380heavy From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2006, 261 posts, RR: 0
Reply 156, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 48764 times:

I thought there was going to be a picture yesterday!

Can't wait to see the complete A350 in the open air, and looking forward even more to some pretty awesome wing flex when she gets some air beneath her tyres!

Come on guys give her some fresh air!   



Flown in:732,733,734,738,742,752,763,772,F27,DC9,MD-11,A300,A332,ATR72,DHC-6,Bell206,C172,Auster,PA-28
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 11204 posts, RR: 33
Reply 157, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 48359 times:

Unfortunately, the only picture Airbus has shared today is from a big A359 model with a chocolate bunny on it.

http://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/882505_634092859940335_1521015584_o.jpg



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlinePihero From France, joined Jan 2005, 4402 posts, RR: 76
Reply 158, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 48266 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 157):
Unfortunately, the only picture Airbus has shared today is from a big A359 model with a chocolate bunny on it.

But an Easter bunny, no less  



Contrail designer
User currently offlineautothrust From Switzerland, joined Jun 2006, 1595 posts, RR: 9
Reply 159, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 47315 times:

I could be wong, but it seems the TrentXWB reaching new heights in terms of complexity. If i compare the ducts and pipes on older Trents, this looks way more complex.


“Faliure is not an option.”
User currently onlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30865 posts, RR: 86
Reply 160, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 46989 times:
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Quoting autothrust (Reply 159):
I could be wong, but it seems the TrentXWB reaching new heights in terms of complexity. If i compare the ducts and pipes on older Trents, this looks way more complex.

Well the XWB is the first Trent to have two Intermediate Pressure Turbines so that might account for some of the additional plumbing.


User currently offlineBoeingVista From Australia, joined Jan 2009, 1575 posts, RR: 3
Reply 161, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 46789 times:

Quoting autothrust (Reply 159):
I could be wong, but it seems the TrentXWB reaching new heights in terms of complexity. If i compare the ducts and pipes on older Trents, this looks way more complex.

The TXWB as we see it in the pictures above is packed full of test sensors, production engines will look a lot less complex.



BV
User currently offlineautothrust From Switzerland, joined Jun 2006, 1595 posts, RR: 9
Reply 162, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 45122 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 160):
Well the XWB is the first Trent to have two Intermediate Pressure Turbines so that might account for some of the additional plumbing.
Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 161):
The TXWB as we see it in the pictures above is packed full of test sensors, production engines will look a lot less complex.

Many thanks for the answers. I'll will be curious to what the final TrentXWB will look like.



“Faliure is not an option.”
User currently offlinenomadd22 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 1846 posts, RR: 0
Reply 163, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 44376 times:

A day late, but Airbus seems to have settled on an eco friendly power system.
I can't see any reason it wouldn't work.


http://www.aero-news.net/subscribe.c...2aa581-ae2d-4bb1-91a3-277d7d9b13bb



Andy Goetsch
User currently offlinea380900 From France, joined Dec 2003, 1110 posts, RR: 1
Reply 164, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 43069 times:

So where is the pic??? It feels like we're gonna have to wait for some big show in a hangar before we see the plane completed. I kind of remember it was the same for the A380. Oh well...

User currently offlineferpe From France, joined Nov 2010, 2803 posts, RR: 59
Reply 165, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 42437 times:

While we wait for the bride (in full clothing it might be  ) here a nice clip from the 3rd TV channel in France which were present when the second engine went onto MSN001. It is from Ponchos AVIA forum (go up to post 258 and play the video ) :

http://avia.superforum.fr/t1358p240-airbus-a350xwb#36201

For those that understand french the last comment from the reporter is interesting "the aircraft will fly in the early summer"  Wow! . The guy on the mid level that answered the question from this reporter did not stay 100% with the A party line "in the summer", he added his own little qualification   . This is how you get reliable non party-line info, ask the middle managers when the big bosses are gone  .

So is early summer before 17th of June    .......



Non French in France
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 11204 posts, RR: 33
Reply 166, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 42310 times:

We've now seen multiple hints of MSN001 flying before the Paris air show, first the RR guy and now that guy in the video. I'm still thinking that Airbus is internally aiming to fly the A350 before the air show, but keeping a low profile so they cannot get lynched if they miss the target. One lesson learned from the A380 and B787 programs is that you do not want to make too much promises.


Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlinestarbucks From Netherlands, joined Feb 2013, 698 posts, RR: 6
Reply 167, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 40479 times:

If we could expect a rollout this week I guess we should have seen some sort of announcement on the Airbus site, at least for a lvestream I would say, with the FAL inauguration Airbus announced one a couple of days in advance.

I'm putting my hopes on next week some days after the Mobile ground breaking ceremony....



A350 logbook: http://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AlVgPnmHLOovdFdzbVlyQzhYNDhCb1VFN1RkYXkwV3c&output=html
User currently offlineferpe From France, joined Nov 2010, 2803 posts, RR: 59
Reply 168, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 39611 times:

There is a nice story at the A350 blogs site about Airbus contracting the Berlin company PACE to supply a customized version of their Cabin layout tool Pacelab Cabin 7 as the A350 XWB Configurator.

It has all the A350 catalog items of interior elements already preloaded with all their design rules and constrains:

http://www.bloga350.blogspot.fr/

For those who want to understand how a cabin is designed at the project level in order to understand how many pax it will take, what it will weigh etc, take look at this video:

http://www.pace.de/products/cabin-configuration/pacelab-cabin-7.html



Non French in France
User currently offlinePhen From Ireland, joined Oct 2007, 317 posts, RR: 0
Reply 169, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 38230 times:

Apologies if this question has been asked before - I did a search but could not find an answer. With the new LED lights now in use on new aircraft such as the 787 / 747-8 (and presumably all new Airbus aircraft), does anybody how will Airbus achieve the trademark double wingtip strobe flash with LEDs? Or perhaps they will abandon it? Looking at the 787, if you imagine two wingtip strobe flashes, it would probably result in a very long flash cycle - possibly too long?

User currently offlineferpe From France, joined Nov 2010, 2803 posts, RR: 59
Reply 170, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 36471 times:

Quoting Phen (Reply 169):
Apologies if this question has been asked before - I did a search but could not fin