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Lost Passenger Jets That Were Never Found?  
User currently offlineGonzalo From Chile, joined Aug 2005, 1992 posts, RR: 2
Posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 22736 times:

Hi all. I was reading some old articles about the Adam Air flight that vanished over the waters in Indonesia, and I found very sad how little of that aircraft was recovered, basically a couple of ailerons or similar, but probably was a 0,5 % of the aircraft. I know there are several small planes ( specially in the earlier times of flying ) that vanished over the sea or high mountains and were never found ( Amelia Earhart's plane being one of the most notorious ), but I can't remember any case like that involving a large passenger aircraft ( Even in very difficult situations like SAA 295 or AF447 with aircraft lost in the middle of the ocean, there is certainty about the location of the wreckage and large pieces of the aircraft were recovered. )

So, are there any case of a large passenger jet still missing after years ?? Or every single lost plane has been found ?

Thanks in advance for your inputs.

Rgds.
G.


80 Knots...V1...Rotate...Gear Up...DC-3 / EMB-110 / Fairchild-227 / Ab318-19-20 / B732 / B763
48 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinedenverdanny From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 263 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 22723 times:

There's got to be an existing thread on this already.

A craft that they knew where it crashed and they found some debris wouldn't be classified as "vanished" to me. They just don't have the need or ability to retrieve it. During the prop era, there were numerous truly vanished ones. That flight over Lake MIchigan during a storm, as well as a flight over the Gulf of Mexico. Don't know their numbers, but those are the ones that come to mind. I'm sure there were a few B 377 Stratocruisers that disappeared. Sad to think about never being found and no one knowing what happened.


User currently offlinePolot From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 2259 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 22710 times:

Quoting Gonzalo (Thread starter):
So, are there any case of a large passenger jet still missing after years ?? Or every single lost plane has been found ?

Not a passenger jet, but Varig had a cargo 707 go missing over the pacific on its way to Tokyo that was never found. It was carrying some valuable paintings on board. This was the late 70s/ early 80s I believe.


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25653 posts, RR: 22
Reply 3, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 22360 times:

Quoting Polot (Reply 2):
Not a passenger jet, but Varig had a cargo 707 go missing over the pacific on its way to Tokyo that was never found. It was carrying some valuable paintings on board. This was the late 70s/ early 80s I believe.

January 1979.
http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19790130-0

The aircraft involved (another photo at bottom of the summary above). An ex-AA aircraft (N7562A), sold to Varig in 1974 after 8 years with AA.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Vito Cedrini
View Large View Medium
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Photo © Kjell Nilsson



[Edited 2013-03-08 21:18:26]

User currently onlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10511 posts, RR: 14
Reply 4, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 22336 times:

Quoting Polot (Reply 2):
Not a passenger jet, but Varig had a cargo 707 go missing over the pacific on its way to Tokyo that was never found. It was carrying some valuable paintings on board. This was the late 70s/ early 80s I believe.

Not a passenger a/c, either, but an RC-135 from Shemya AFB in the Aleutians to Eielson AFB in Fairbanks disappeared without a trace. This was on June 5th, '69. There were 19 people on board.

[Edited 2013-03-08 21:21:17]


"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlinemaxpower1954 From United States of America, joined Sep 2008, 1110 posts, RR: 7
Reply 5, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 22278 times:

A Flying Tigers 1049H Super Constellation vanished on a military charter flight in March 1962 with 107 souls on board. Not a scrap of wreckage was ever found.

The Varig 707 is the only jet transport I'm aware that disapeared without a trace.

[Edited 2013-03-08 21:12:54]

User currently offlineType-Rated From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 22258 times:

In the 60's NW lost a DC-7 in the Gulf of Alaska, I believe.

User currently offline7BOEING7 From United States of America, joined Oct 2012, 1634 posts, RR: 8
Reply 7, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 22063 times:

In 1972/3 a P-3 on a training mission disappeared off Big Sur without a trace.

User currently offlineNavion From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1014 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 20823 times:

Wasn't there a 727 that "disappeared" in Africa about 5 or so years ago? I don't recall if it came from S. America or if it originated in Africa but it disappeared without a trace. Was it found. It's the only "modern era" disappearance that comes to mind.

User currently offlinePolot From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 2259 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 20254 times:

Quoting Navion (Reply 8):
Wasn't there a 727 that "disappeared" in Africa about 5 or so years ago? I don't recall if it came from S. America or if it originated in Africa but it disappeared without a trace. Was it found. It's the only "modern era" disappearance that comes to mind.

Yeah, that was an ex-AA 727 that was stolen in Angola that no one could find again. Wikipedia actually has an article about it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N844AA


User currently offlineNDiesel From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 82 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 20018 times:

Quoting denverdanny (Reply 1):

I did a thread on this last year, lots of interesting mysteries out there.

Never Found Wreckages (by NDiesel Apr 21 2012 in Civil Aviation)?threadid=5444808&searchid=5447372

If I'd had enough funding I'd devote my career to finding these planes. Beats an office.



Delta MD-11 JFK-CDG - Upon sunrise I fell in love with Aviation
User currently offlinesrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 19981 times:

Quoting Type-Rated (Reply 6):

In the 60's NW lost a DC-7 in the Gulf of Alaska, I believe.

NW 293, June 3, 1963. No bodies were ever found and only about 1500 pounds of debris was recovered. The location of the crash site made it impossible to recover wreckage that had sunk to the bottom of the seafloor and it remains untouched to this day.

In some respects, you can consider the wreckage of Eastern flight 980 to be lost due to the extreme conditions at the crash site, a glacier on Mount Illimani in Bolivia. It impacted the mountain at 19,000 feet and it was only in recent years that some of the wreckage of the 727 has been exposed due to melting ice on the glacier and some pieces have been recovered by climbers (The CVR and FDR have yet to be recovered.).


User currently offlinemandala499 From Indonesia, joined Aug 2001, 6927 posts, RR: 76
Reply 12, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 19844 times:

Quoting Gonzalo (Thread starter):
Hi all. I was reading some old articles about the Adam Air flight that vanished over the waters in Indonesia, and I found very sad how little of that aircraft was recovered, basically a couple of ailerons or similar, but probably was a 0,5 % of the aircraft.

The main wreckage was found under the water, but only a small amount was recovered for investigation purposes... primarily the CVR and FDR.

Quoting Gonzalo (Thread starter):
Even in very difficult situations like SAA 295 or AF447 with aircraft lost in the middle of the ocean, there is certainty about the location of the wreckage and large pieces of the aircraft were recovered.

And the missing Adam Air's location was relatively narrowed down in the initial stages, but lack of floating debris misled many (including investigators) into looking elsewhere. Despite the efforts to look elsewhere at the time, the area near where the last radar contact was, was searched, and yes, it was there. The floating debris then simply confirmed it.



When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
User currently offlineokAY From Finland, joined Dec 2006, 669 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 19443 times:

Aero OY's Junkers 52 "Kaleva" has never been found since it was shot down in the summer of 1940. 7 passengers and 2 crew were lost.

User currently offlinerfields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 32
Reply 14, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 19003 times:

Two Avro Tudor IV passenger aircraft operated by British South American Airways disappeared in 1948 and 1949. The 1948 flight was enroute from the Azores to Bermuda. The 1949 flight was enroute from Bermuda to Jamaica.

Both are cited as 'proof' in Bermuda Triangle theories. The flight from the Azores to Bermuda would barely enter the Bermuda Triangle, but what the heck, reality has never been a big part of Triangle stories.

A DC-3 disappeared in 1948 enroute from San Juan to Miami. The pilot reported he was 50 miles south of Miami, but the Miami ATC did not receive his transmission, New Orleans did. The weather had changed and the pilot never acknowledged receiving any update. If he flew based on earlier reports, he would have been farther south and west of his DR position.

The DC-3 along with the Avro's were operating at near max range. The DC-3 had electrical problems where the batteries were almost drained when leaving Puerto Rico, and it appeared the electrical system was not charging properly.

Qantas / BOAC lost an Avro Lancastrian registered to BOAC but operated by Qantas in 1946 between Sri Lanka (Ceylon) and Keeling Cocos Island with 10 people aboard. No trace ever found.


User currently offlinebobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1725 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 18433 times:

Was the SAA Hildeberg 74M ever recovered?

User currently offlineIndependence76 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 256 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 15419 times:

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 15):
Was the SAA Hildeberg 74M ever recovered?

Yes, nearly an exact year after the accident.

However, they never officially concluded the exact cause of the fire, and both the CVR were highly damaged to the point where almost no data was readable. They could never find the FDR.



(Gonzalo beat my edited correction by about a minute)  Silly


[Edited 2013-03-09 10:22:56]


"In general, pride is at the bottom of all great mistakes." - John Ruskin
User currently offlineGonzalo From Chile, joined Aug 2005, 1992 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 15372 times:

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 15):
Was the SAA Hildeberg 74M ever recovered?

The name was The Helderberg. And basically NO, they only recovered the CVR, at +16.000 ft. depth. The FDR was never found.

Rgds.
G.



80 Knots...V1...Rotate...Gear Up...DC-3 / EMB-110 / Fairchild-227 / Ab318-19-20 / B732 / B763
User currently offlineGonzalo From Chile, joined Aug 2005, 1992 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 15250 times:

Quoting Independence76 (Reply 16):
FDR were highly damaged to the point where almost no data was readable.

AFAIK FDR was never found/recovered. The CVR was damaged but the investigators were able to retrieve useful information from it, 28 minutes into the recording the CVR indicated that the fire alarm sounded. Fourteen seconds after the fire alarm, the circuit breakers began to pop. Investigators believe that around 80 circuit breakers failed. The CVR cable failed 81 seconds after the alarm. The recording revealed the extent of the fire.

Rgds.
G.



80 Knots...V1...Rotate...Gear Up...DC-3 / EMB-110 / Fairchild-227 / Ab318-19-20 / B732 / B763
User currently offlineDIJKKIJK From France, joined Jul 2003, 1811 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 15003 times:

How about Air India 245 in 1950 (L749 Constellation) and Air India 101 in 1966 (Boeing 707), both of which crashed on the Mont Blanc in France, while approaching Geneva? Only pieces of wreckage have been recovered from both planes, with absolutely no trace of any human remains.

[Edited 2013-03-09 10:41:16]


Never argue with idiots. They will bring you down to their level, and beat you with experience.
User currently offlinedoulasc From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 551 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 12238 times:

How about a Eastern Airlines Boeing 727-200 crashed into a mountain in Peru or Bolivia in the early 1980s after Eastern took over Braniff's South American routes.No rescue team ever attempted to get to the crash site because of avalanches and burried under deep snow,

User currently onlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10511 posts, RR: 14
Reply 21, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 12087 times:

How much of ValueJet's DC-9 that crashed in the Everglades was recovered?


"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlinebristolflyer From United Kingdom, joined May 2004, 2302 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 11920 times:

How about that Asiana 747 (cargo) that went down about 2 years ago?


Fortune favours the brave
User currently offlineFlySigi From Canada, joined Dec 2004, 4 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 11547 times:

There was a Boeing 727 on a ferry flight from Malta to Miami Florida that went missing over the North Atlantic in 1990. To my knowledge it was never found and it had 18 pax on board.

I remember taking pictures in ZRH of that 727 when it was flying for Air Malta.

http://www.apnewsarchive.com/1990/Se...d-a939c0feccbeb0d1db85f54b32901f9b


User currently offline71Zulu From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 3086 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 7 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 11465 times:

Not a jet either, but on November 16, 1959, a National Airlines DC-7 enroute TPA-MSY crashed into the Gulf of Mexico just southeast of MSY. Of the 42 on board, only 10 bodies I think were recovered. The plane itself was never recovered and there is no probable cause of the accident due to lack of evidence.

The Eastern DC-8 that crashed into Lake Pontchartrain after takeoff from MSY on February 25, 1964, had much of the plane not recovered along with sadly most of the victims. The plane hit the lake at a high rate of speed and the fragments mostly disappeared into the mud at the bottom of the lake.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Airlines_Flight_967

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Air_Lines_Flight_304



The good old days: Delta L-1011s at MSY
25 Post contains links Viscount724 : Not sure about the Constellation in 1950 but some human remains have been found from the 707 crash in 1966 (in almost the same place). Recent related
26 srbmod : 60% of the wreckage was found, which was more than enough to help determine the cause of the crash. I mentioned it in Reply 11......
27 Post contains links Viscount724 : A Canadian Pacific DC-4 disappeared into the Pacific near Sitka, Alaska en route from YVR to ANC (fuel stop en route to Tokyo) in July 1951. No trace
28 Post contains links 802flyguy : I know the OP was about jets, but two propliner crashes are noteworthy; the Northwest DC-4 that crashed in Lake Michigan has never been found. http://
29 Post contains links flightsimer : Rivet Amber. Both RC-135's based there were lost, the other being Rivet Ball. http://community-2.webtv.net/KingdonAviation/RivetBallAmberShemya/[Edit
30 SpaceshipDC10 : Almost 40 years ago, PA816 struck the sea right after take off from PPT. I believe this is one of the accidents that prompted the FAA to fly with PA c
31 Viscount724 : That PPT crash was Pan Am's 5th fatal 707 hull loss in 9 months. One was a terrorist attack on a parked aircraft at FCO.
32 Post contains links flymia : There is the famous flight 19 which is one of the most famous if not the most famous "mystery" of the Bermuda Triangle. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F
33 SpaceshipDC10 : Actually it was the first and, FCO terrorist attack aside, it took another three accidents, the last being PA812 at Bali, before the FAA inspectors b
34 KC135TopBoom : I believe very little of the B-707 KE-858 was ever found. It exploded over the Andaman Sea and only a little debris washed ashore. The main wreckage p
35 bobloblaw : How much of the data on the SAA 74M not bring readable was on purpose? The plane was allegedly carrying weapons and rocket fuel. The flight was an im
36 Flaps : There was brief thread on this aircraft and the possibility that it had been discovered south of Bimini about a year or so back. Never heard any more
37 Post contains links and images rleiro : In the case of missing airplanes in Venezuela, a DC-9-10 of Aeropostal Lost in La Blanquilla during a test flight, nothing but a life vest was found:
38 Viscount724 : Correct. I misread the list. Thought the most recent was at the bottom.
39 cornutt : A bit OT, but there was Donald Campbell's Bluebird K7, which crashed and sunk on Lake Conniston in 1967 and wasn't found until 2001. And the story of
40 BenSandilands : I don't wish to engage in disaster p*rn in any way or be mistakenly accused of disrespect for the dead, but I arrived at the top of the debris zone of
41 Gonzalo : Hello Ben. I wish to sincerely thank you for sharing this touching experience, and for joining the Forum to tell us this amazing story. I hope we can
42 mayor : Yes, Rivet Ball was lost, in a crash landing on the island of Shemya in January of '69 and Rivet Amber was lost enroute to Eielson AFB in June of '69
43 ajd1992 : Well, I think they knew it was there they just never recovered his body. I recall there was a legal battle between his children about recovering his
44 LVTMB : I believe the flight was FROM Tokyo ... And the Captain had survived a previous crash on another RG 707 I believe at ORY. MB
45 SeeTheWorld : Thomas Hale Boggs, Sr., presumed to have died on October 16, 1972 but not declared dead until January 3, 1973, was an American Democratic politician a
46 DIJKKIJK : Thank you for sharing your experiences. Very exciting indeed! Although I live somewhat close to the area, not being the mountaineering type, I never
47 Post contains links and images Viscount724 : Yes, same captain on both flights. The July 1973 crash on approach to ORY due to a fire in a lavatory was Varig's worst-ever accident, with 123 fatal
48 Post contains links jetjack74 : The crash of ALM 980, a DC9 leased from ONA crashed and sank 35 miles off shore in 5000 ft of water, wreckage never recovered. 40 survivors, 23 dead h
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