It includes an extension of the north runway to 4700 meters. Is that necessary? Wouldn't the aircraft reach their maximum tire speeds before being able to use the whole length of it?
trent772 From Colombia, joined Oct 2012, 102 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (3 months 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 6755 times:
Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 1): being able to use the whole length of it?
Airplanes never use the whole length of the runway for take-off, the length of the runway must be enough to accelerate to V1 loose an engine, abort the take-off and stop within the paved surface using wheel brakes only or, accelerate to V1 loose an engine, continue the take-off and cross the opposite threshold at 35ft AGL.
That's why you see airplanes lifting off from the runway at about 2/3 of the length most of the time.
Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 1): Wouldn't the aircraft reach their maximum tire speeds
They indeed would, at BOG's elevation this plays a big role when calculating MTOW, also with the higher speeds another limitation comes into play, Brake Energy, this is the capability of the wheel brakes to stop the airplane when it reaches its maximum kinetic energy accelerate-stop speed, brake energy is typically the limiting factor in high/moderately hot conditions, on long runways, with lower flap settings.
IMO the plan to add 900m to the northern runway lacks an in-depth investigation on the matter, I think 300m should do the trick, but who cares? Why stretch the runway 300m for a price if you can stretch it 900m for 50 times the same price?
The master plan is nice and all but it won't be finished in our lifetimes.
One question though, will the 900m be added to the western (13L) threshold or the eastern one (31R)?
A388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9130 posts, RR: 13 Reply 3, posted (3 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 6684 times:
Nice and clear explanation trent772, thanks
RCS763AV, a tip when starting a new thread would be to put the number of the thread at the end of the thread title so it is easier to find, just as all other country threads do. I didn't see this thread because the "13" was mentioned within the front part of the title. Even so, thanks for starting it.
About AV's new livery, is there more news? It is supposed to be unveiled this month, right? I have a scale model of the AV 787 where you see the airline titles slightly larger on the aircraft then it is now. Could this be the only change to the new revised livery? I think such a change would be enough. As the saying goes: "Why fix it, when it isn't broke"
RCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4290 posts, RR: 13 Reply 4, posted (3 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 6669 times:
Quoting trent772 (Reply 2): IMO the plan to add 900m to the northern runway lacks an in-depth investigation on the matter, I think 300m should do the trick, but who cares? Why stretch the runway 300m for a price if you can stretch it 900m for 50 times the same price?
That's exactly what I thought. 900m is way too much.
Quoting trent772 (Reply 2): The master plan is nice and all but it won't be finished in our lifetimes.
I think we will, the new legal framework (public-private association law) and reinforced institutional forces that the Santos government has taken time to put in place will surely get the project going much faster than the inept Pastrana and Uribe governments, at a much lower price too. That said, this is still Colombia so I don't expect it to be ready in 15 years, more like 25-30.
Quoting trent772 (Reply 2): One question though, will the 900m be added to the western (13L) threshold or the eastern one (31R)?
Western of course. It would require a lot of valuable land inside the city to extend to the east.
Quoting A388 (Reply 3): About AV's new livery, is there more news? It is supposed to be unveiled this month, right?
The week May 20 is what they're saying.
On other news, CM Colombia keep reinforcing their ADZ operations after the addition of PEI, the CLO-ADZ route goes from 7 to 12 weekly flights starting may 31st.
They've certainly found their domestic niche in ADZ, they seem to be making money off of it.
Quoting A388 (Reply 3): RCS763AV, a tip when starting a new thread would be to put the number of the thread at the end of the thread title so it is easier to find, just as all other country threads do.
Or maybe just take a closer look. Many of the other country threads have a phrase behind the number and people keep responding to them.
A388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9130 posts, RR: 13 Reply 6, posted (3 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 6660 times:
Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 4): Or maybe just take a closer look. Many of the other country threads have a phrase behind the number and people keep responding to them.
No matter how you look at it, we can all agree that it is much easier to find when the number is at the end, unless we all read from right to left!!!!
troest From Denmark, joined Mar 2008, 167 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (3 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 6561 times:
Quoting trent772 (Reply 2): IMO the plan to add 900m to the northern runway lacks an in-depth investigation on the matter, I think 300m should do the trick, but who cares? Why stretch the runway 300m for a price if you can stretch it 900m for 50 times the same price?
Arrivals:
Larger planes will have more length to brake on a wet runway. Planes come in at a higher speed on high altitude airports as you mentioned than those at sea level.
Departures:
Quoting trent772 (Reply 2): One question though, will the 900m be added to the western (13L) threshold or the eastern one (31R)?
SJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 4128 posts, RR: 5 Reply 9, posted (3 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 6495 times:
Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 4): CM Colombia keep reinforcing their ADZ operations after the addition of PEI, the CLO-ADZ route goes from 7 to 12 weekly flights starting may 31st.
Speaking about their international routes, CM BOG-CUN goes from 2x to 4x weekly from June 15th and CM PTY-HAV goes from 1x to 3x weekly from June 16th.
RCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4290 posts, RR: 13 Reply 10, posted (3 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 6428 times:
Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 9): Speaking about their international routes, CM BOG-CUN goes from 2x to 4x weekly from June 15th and CM PTY-HAV goes from 1x to 3x weekly from June 16th.
Indeed. That was discussed on the previous thread. Thanks.
Brazil is studying giving their support to Avianca in the acquisition of TAP. They suggest the bidding be done via the AviancaTaca holding which is only focused on aviation and not the Synergy Group which has a number of different interests:
trent772 From Colombia, joined Oct 2012, 102 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (3 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 6399 times:
Quoting troest (Reply 8):
Arrivals:
Larger planes will have more length to brake on a wet runway. Planes come in at a higher speed on high altitude airports as you mentioned than those at sea level.
Nice graphs!! Now I clearly understand why LH Cargo won't start the approach into BOG with a wet runway, I've heard them request a hold when the brake actions is less than good.
I understand the landing, it makes perfect sense having the chance to land airplanes into BOG at MLW, more cargo, what's not to like?.
I strongly disagree with the Take-off graph as it clearly does not take into account the elevation, and if it somehow does it is not taking into account the ground speed during take-off, at sea level indicated airspeed equals ground speed if the wind is calm, at 8360ft above sea level, ground speed is close to 20% higher than indicated airspeed so you would be getting awfully close to the tire speed limit with a rotation speed of 155kt, airplanes are already reaching these speeds with the present runway without a problem, no airplane out of BOG is field restricted rendering the runway extension useless, the problem with BOG is the second segment climb due to the surrounding terrain.
Quoting A388 (Reply 3): About AV's new livery, is there more news?
I had a chance to see a render claiming it was the final thing, all I can say is EPIC FAIL!!!! (Just as I predicted )
it was going around facebook, maybe someone else has seen it?
Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 4): the inept Pastrana and Uribe governments
A388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9130 posts, RR: 13 Reply 12, posted (3 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 6381 times:
Quoting trent772 (Reply 11): Quoting A388 (Reply 3):
About AV's new livery, is there more news?
I had a chance to see a render claiming it was the final thing, all I can say is EPIC FAIL!!!! (Just as I predicted )
it was going around facebook, maybe someone else has seen it?
Now I'm getting more interested, someone please post a picture of this rendering...
troest From Denmark, joined Mar 2008, 167 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (3 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 6373 times:
Quoting A388 (Reply 12): Now I'm getting more interested, someone please post a picture of this rendering...
Quoting trent772 (Reply 11): I had a chance to see a render claiming it was the final thing, all I can say is EPIC FAIL!!!!
This is what I could find. I personally don't like the "Avianca" name written so big on the side fuselage. Prefer the same size as it is used today. The new colors.... I still don't like. What do you think?
A388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9130 posts, RR: 13 Reply 14, posted (3 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 6354 times:
Quoting troest (Reply 13): This is what I could find. I personally don't like the "Avianca" name written so big on the side fuselage. Prefer the same size as it is used today. The new colors.... I still don't like. What do you think?
Is this really the official new livery? It doesn't look official. In any case, I see they have copied the eagle that the new AA livery has, only difference is that this eagle is the AV eagle or condor. All in all, if this really is the new livery, then damn. Bad bad bad. Changing a corporate livery totally as AA did, is very risky and the chances of it firing back is much bigger than it is a success. AA did a great job, even though I didn't like it at all at first. The new AV livery to me is different and I think the current livery is way much better.
troest From Denmark, joined Mar 2008, 167 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (3 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 6342 times:
Quoting A388 (Reply 14): Is this really the official new livery? It doesn't look official. In any case, I see they have copied the eagle that the new AA livery has, only difference is that this eagle is the AV eagle or condor.
Not sure and hope not. But this one is circulating on the web.
AA's new livery reminds me of Cubana de Aviación.
The ninth AV A330 N280AV will arrive from TLS to MDE on Friday 22MAR13 painted in all white. Maybe this one will be painted is Star Alliance colors or in the new livery. Hopefully not like the one posted.
summa767 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 2388 posts, RR: 7 Reply 16, posted (3 months 1 week 13 hours ago) and read 6316 times:
Quoting troest (Reply 13): The new colors.... I still don't like. What do you think?
I like the tail: A red parrot (Taca) perched, with its long tail going under the fuselage (so one would be able to identify from underneath).
The condor (Avianca) has been left to the engines and logo. 2 birds in one plane. What I don't like is the large Avianca title in all that fuselage whiteness. It looks cheap. If only there was a counterbalancing motif towards the front and smaller titles, it would look better.
The design is clearly a compromise to include both TA, AV and cost. But there is room to go the extra mile.
If it stays like shown, I trust that, at least, the colours will look better on the metal.
Quoting troest (Reply 15): The ninth AV A330 N280AV will arrive from TLS to MDE on Friday 22MAR13 painted in all white. Maybe this one will be painted is Star Alliance colors or in the new livery
We'll have to see. It might well be the new livery.
RICARIZA From Colombia, joined Apr 2005, 2356 posts, RR: 29 Reply 17, posted (3 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 6170 times:
I doubt (hope not) that's the final livery. I expect something better from AV taking into account they currently have a successful and beautiful and fairly new livery.. I expect to see something closer to the current livery with some TA influence...
I really hope this is not the livery, this will be a complete fail !!
I miss ACES, I am proud of AVIANCA & I am loyal to AMERICAN
MEA-707 From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4124 posts, RR: 37 Reply 18, posted (3 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 6013 times:
How is EasyFly doing? They fly about 10 Jetstream-41 props. I read somewhere they temporarily ceased operations on 31 January but further research showed the operate as normal.
nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
RCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4290 posts, RR: 13 Reply 19, posted (3 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 5976 times:
Quoting MEA-707 (Reply 18): How is EasyFly doing? They fly about 10 Jetstream-41 props.
They're actually making money, and they fly more than the jetstreams. the fleet is constantly expanding with them opening new bases every couple of years (right now the bases are BOG, EOH and BGA with BAQ consolidating as one too).
Quoting MEA-707 (Reply 18): I read somewhere they temporarily ceased operations on 31 January but further research showed the operate as normal.
There is an issue and it's the fact that 40% of the airline was owned by a capital fund called Interbolsa that resulted in bankruptcy due to illegal and irresponsible practices which was a major scandal in the country. It is a major concern and no one still knows what's going to happen with this share of the company. I didn't know they had suspended operations on January 31 but it's probably due to that.
SCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8316 posts, RR: 5 Reply 21, posted (3 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 5645 times:
Chile's DGAC recently approved LAN Colombia's AOC and the carrier is now permitted to operate flights between Colombia and Chile. LAN Colombia is currently the only LATAM affiliate carrier that does not operate into Chile. LAN Colombia's COO stated that the carrier plans on launching a daily non-stop service between BOG and SCL by 01JUL13 utilizing the B-767-316ER: LAN COLOMBIA OPERARÁ EN CHILE
RCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4290 posts, RR: 13 Reply 23, posted (3 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5451 times:
Quoting SCL767 (Reply 22): Also starting in June, LAN Colombia will increase frequencies on the BOG-ADZ, BOG-CTG, BOG-CUC, and BOG-SMR routes.
CUC, SMR and ADZ I imagine will be going from three to four daily flights, and BOG-CTG to six daily flights?
On other news, Avianca are adding a 7th daily flight to SMR, which will depart at 22h from BOG, RON is SMR and come back at 6am. This will enable the city to be connected to the international night arrival bank and the morning departure bank, which wasn't possible before, meaning Santa Marta will have much better connections to North America. Flight is to be operated by the Airbus A318.
SJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 4128 posts, RR: 5 Reply 24, posted (3 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 5316 times:
Does "Cubana de Aviación" still operate the BOG-HAV sector using their own planes?
Any word concerning to the low amount of weekly frequencies served by either AV BOG-HAV and CM BOG-HAV.
SCL767 From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8316 posts, RR: 5 Reply 26, posted (3 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 5392 times:
With the introduction of the B-767-316ERs into its fleet; LAN Colombia has implemented new schedules on the BOG-GRU and BOG-MIA routes: Boeing 767, una nueva experiencia
LAN Colombia is also the first Colombian carrier to offer full flat seats that recline 100% horizontally in its Business Class.
summa767 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 2388 posts, RR: 7 Reply 27, posted (3 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 5408 times:
Route News:
jetBlue will go double on BOG-MCO from 20th June. The current flight will change schedule to make for a more efficient operation.
AV has programmed its flights BOG-SJU, which will be 3 x weekly from 17th July: Wed, Fri & Sun
Departure from BOG at 2.23 pm, arriving back at 9pm.
These are timed so that connections from the south of the continent, such as SCL, EZE, GRU, GIG among others that arrive at BOG near midday can easily connect onward to SJO, and similarly in the other direction.
RCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4290 posts, RR: 13 Reply 28, posted (3 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 5323 times:
Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 24): Any word concerning to the low amount of weekly frequencies served by either AV BOG-HAV and CM BOG-HAV.
Quoting SCL767 (Reply 25):
Well there are more frequencies between LIM and HAV compared to BOG-HAV...
For real? That's your what you have to say?
The amount of frequencies is indeed low, but this was an untapped market which was being milked by CM via PTY at sky high fares (CU's sole weekly flight was, until about three years ago, the only connection between Colombia and Cuba), and just around a year ago did Avianca introduce their flights. As the route matures the airlines will keep on adding service, for example, CM Colombia will soon be going from 1 to 3 weekly flights on the route, and Avianca is flying it 4 times a week. I'm sure that gradually (like it happened in LIM), frequency will be improving.
Quoting summa767 (Reply 27): jetBlue will go double on BOG-MCO from 20th June. The current flight will change schedule to make for a more efficient operation.
That route seems to be doing very well. Both operators are enjoying healthy O/D plus sizeable connecting traffic at both ends. Could we see B6 surpass NK as the second largest US carrier to Colombia this year?
Quoting summa767 (Reply 27): AV has programmed its flights BOG-SJU, which will be 3 x weekly from 17th July: Wed, Fri & Sun
Departure from BOG at 2.23 pm, arriving back at 9pm.
Great! This flight will do well for sure. Now waiting for confirmation on CUN. I read somewhere that MAR and LET are still doubtful for the summer timetable.
Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 23): CUC, SMR and ADZ I imagine will be going from three to four daily flights, and BOG-CTG to six daily flights?
So I was checking LAN.com and,
BOG-BGA is not being served fully at 4x daily, but rather 25x a week.
BOG-SMR is going from 2 to 3 daily flights (Aires had three daily flights so this is actually restoring previous service levels)
BOG-CUC also only shows 2 dailies when Aires managed to operate 3 daily rotations.
BOG-ADZ is showing two daily flights on certain days of the week and one daily flight on others (again, Aires had three daily flights every day to the Island, so depending on what the upgrade will be this will just be a return to previous levels or even less).
I thought LAN's expansions would be more aggressive. All I can say is I'm not impressed, but at leadt they're returning to the previous schedule offered by Aires on those routes.
Also, interesting review from CAPA on the prospects of the colombian domestic market. It's impressive how Viva is now the third largest operator with 9% of the market which is concentrated in Avianca with 61% (dangerously growing to an almost monopolistic share) and LAN maintaining the same 19% they had last year, with Copa and Satena being the main loosers to Viva, and the only airlines that actually lost pax. Copa's strategy is well known but SATENA's woes continue to trouble the state company. ADA and Easyfly grew their pax numbers too:
summa767 From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 2388 posts, RR: 7 Reply 29, posted (3 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 5293 times:
Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 28): That route seems to be doing very well. Both operators are enjoying healthy O/D plus sizeable connecting traffic at both ends. Could we see B6 surpass NK as the second largest US carrier to Colombia this year?
Could wel happen. NK has really stagnated in Colombia after a fast rise. We never heard any more about the plan for a small hub at BOG.
I forgot to mention that jetBlue's double daily MCO-BOG appears to be only for the peak season, until the end of August.
RCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4290 posts, RR: 13 Reply 30, posted (3 months 18 hours ago) and read 5219 times:
Quoting summa767 (Reply 29): NK has really stagnated in Colombia after a fast rise. We never heard any more about the plan for a small hub at BOG.
They have indeed, but it's because they have stopped growing at FLL after having found a very lucrative market at other US fortress hubs that have very high fares. I don't think the mini BOG hub is going to be a reality now.
Quoting summa767 (Reply 29): I forgot to mention that jetBlue's double daily MCO-BOG appears to be only for the peak season, until the end of August.
Makes sense. In the future we might see it become year-round.
av757 From Colombia, joined Apr 2004, 650 posts, RR: 6 Reply 31, posted (2 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 5043 times:
Avianca will do today the delivery ferry flights from LFBO/TLS of its tenth A330-243 registration N280AV/cn1400 which is in an all white livery to SKRG/RNG, and Tampa freighter number two A330-243F registration N331QT/cn1380 which is inTampa livery to SKBO/BOG.
airliner777 From United States of America, joined May 2000, 493 posts, RR: 0 Reply 32, posted (2 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 5002 times:
Quoting av757 (Reply 31): Avianca will do today the delivery ferry flights from LFBO/TLS of its tenth A330-243 registration N280AV/cn1400 which is in an all white livery to SKRG/RNG, and Tampa freighter number two A330-243F registration N331QT/cn1380 which is inTampa livery to SKBO/BOG
777jaah From Colombia, joined Jan 2006, 1401 posts, RR: 2 Reply 33, posted (2 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 4970 times:
Quoting Avianca (Reply 20): was owned by a capital fund called Interbolsa
Not to be picky, but Interbolsa was more of a financial holding, not a capital fund, like Grupo Aval.
Quoting summa767 (Reply 29): It's impressive how Viva is now the third largest operator with 9%
AV has always said that Viva is the real competitor in the colombian market. I guess they were right. Personally, I'm glad they're doing fine and hope they keep growing.
Quoting troest (Reply 13): I personally don't like the "Avianca" name written so big on the side fuselage
Personally, I don't like anything on it.
Next flights: AV BOG-ADZ-BOG, AV-UA BOG-IAD-ORD-IAD-BOG, BOG-FLL-BOG, LA BOG-MIA-BOG J
av757 From Colombia, joined Apr 2004, 650 posts, RR: 6 Reply 34, posted (2 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 4795 times:
It has been confirmed that A330-243 N280AV/cn1400 will be painted in the white/black Star Alliance livery next week before starting regular operation sometime next month while the paperwork for its Colombian Operational Permit is in process. So far there is no news when the first aircraft is going to be painted in the new livery of the Avianca Holding.
troest From Denmark, joined Mar 2008, 167 posts, RR: 0 Reply 35, posted (2 months 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 4519 times:
Found this from other forums:
The Colombian ministry of (proteccion social) social protection gave LAN Colombia a sanction effective 13 march 2013 for not respecting Colombian union laws. The sanction came after the unfortunate situation facing Colombian flight crews in LAN Colombia.
Dont bang me if this question is ignorant (perhaps it is just me talking with my desire) but is it aerodinamically possible for large airlines (EK comes to mind) to expand their operations into BOG. I mean, if we assumed just for a second they were VERY interested in coming, would it be possible from a physics point of view for a current-gen airplane to travel BOG-DXB, for instance? I know DXB-BOG is possible, but due to the altitude, would the return trip be feasible or must we keep travelling via MAD or LAX to reach Asia?
777jaah From Colombia, joined Jan 2006, 1401 posts, RR: 2 Reply 37, posted (2 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 4334 times:
Quoting falkerker (Reply 36): would the return trip be feasible or must we keep travelling via MAD or LAX to reach Asia?
From what I've read in this forums, fue to max tire speed, it won't be possible, despite runway lenght. IMHO, the best way we could get a direct link to Asia, is with a ME carrier such as QR or EK and through a stop in CCS, just like the old days when AF and other european carriers used to serve BOG.
Quoting troest (Reply 35): The sanction came after the unfortunate situation facing Colombian flight crews in LAN Colombia.
Nothing different than a situation poorly managed by management. I bet they already fixed that, I can't think of LA as a company actively trying to violate any labour laws where it operates.
Next flights: AV BOG-ADZ-BOG, AV-UA BOG-IAD-ORD-IAD-BOG, BOG-FLL-BOG, LA BOG-MIA-BOG J
trent772 From Colombia, joined Oct 2012, 102 posts, RR: 0 Reply 38, posted (2 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 4328 times:
Quoting falkerker (Reply 36): would it be possible from a physics point of view for a current-gen airplane to travel BOG-DXB
Well, it could make it from a physics stand point, it would have to be empty though, and that would be a disaster from a business stand point.
Quoting troest (Reply 35): The sanction came after the unfortunate situation facing Colombian flight crews in LAN Colombia.
This happened a while back, some pilots were wrongfully fired just for being a part of the pilots union, the other pilots that were not unionized were all given a pay raise, all very clear violations.
I'm glad the lawsuit has been ruled in favor of the pilots involved.
They fixed it because they were ordered to by a court of law, otherwise things would have stayed the way they were.
Aires's management was basically trying to make a point, be a part of any union and suffer or not unionized? Great! Enjoy your stay.
Thankfully they were stopped in their tracks.
Quoting 777jaah (Reply 37): I can't think of LA as a company actively trying to violate any labour laws where it operates.
You'd be amazed at how many labour laws companies try to break or violate while looking the other way or just playing dumb as if they didn't know, especially in Colombia.
And now with the new and upcoming "reforma tributaria" pilots in Colombia are really going to get their butts kicked.
A388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9130 posts, RR: 13 Reply 40, posted (2 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 4076 times:
Is there more information on AV's new livery? What is the final look of the new livery and when will the first aircraft be painted and which aircraft will be painted first? I would assume the Star Alliance A320 with the sharklets (N477AV?) and the latest Star Alliance A330-200 recently delivered to AV (N280AV?)?
I saw a nice photo of the new check-in area in the new terminal building on the jetphotos website, very impressive!!!
RCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4290 posts, RR: 13 Reply 42, posted (2 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 3958 times:
While talking about the renovation works being finished in CTG by SACSA and in BAQ by Aerocivil themselves, the director of the organism has spilled out that AA is actively studying starting flights to both destinations. BAQ would be re-started after they left the city in 2003:
trent772 From Colombia, joined Oct 2012, 102 posts, RR: 0 Reply 43, posted (2 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 3948 times:
Quoting 777jaah (Reply 41): Has anyone seen any f the works being done at BOG regarding the new control tower?
I don't think they've started yet. I'm guessing that to have a clear view of the entire complex the best place to put the new tower is where CATAM is today? Or have they said where this new tower will be located?
Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 42): works being finished in CTG by SACSA
When will these be finished? Haven't they taken a long time to finish? Just the other day I thought that it would have been probably better to just make a new terminal on the western side and extend the runway some 300m to the south, just a thought.
RCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4290 posts, RR: 13 Reply 44, posted (2 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3910 times:
Quoting trent772 (Reply 43): When will these be finished? Haven't they taken a long time to finish?
They're finished.
Quoting trent772 (Reply 43): Just the other day I thought that it would have been probably better to just make a new terminal on the western side and extend the runway some 300m to the south, just a thought.
You mean the eastern side? Also, due to environmental concerns with the ciénaga surrounding the airport, the runway extension wouldn't be an easy task, not to mention much more expensive.
The new renovations will surely be too small in a couple of years though, it won't 2020 as they say, more like 2016.
They are? I was there last week and they surely don't look like they're done, I saw a lot of cardboard walls and unfinished work, I sincerely hope they haven't finished.
Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 44): environmental concerns with the ciénaga
The Cienaga is dead, I'm sure the tree huggers will disagree but it has been for awhile, sure it would be more expensive but the task of reclaiming land from a body of water is sort of a simple one, just ask the Dutch and the Japanese.
tavong From Colombia, joined Jul 2001, 834 posts, RR: 5 Reply 46, posted (2 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 3684 times:
Quoting trent772 (Reply 45): The Cienaga is dead, I'm sure the tree huggers will disagree but it has been for awhile, sure it would be more expensive but the task of reclaiming land from a body of water is sort of a simple one, just ask the Dutch and the Japanese.
Or Bogotá, remember that Bogotá was more or less a lake before the city is now. I´m not a geologist, but if i remember correctly more or less 50% of the city was occupied by water boies beofer the city´s expansion came. It´s not the same that has been done in Japan or Holland, but i think that here in Colombia we also have some experience on that (even if it was more "corruption-related or invasion-related" by politics that an actual real plan. In fact, mucho of the actual grow of the city is from "reclaimed" land.
Quoting falkerker (Reply 36): Dont bang me if this question is ignorant (perhaps it is just me talking with my desire) but is it aerodinamically possible for large airlines (EK comes to mind) to expand their operations into BOG. I mean, if we assumed just for a second they were VERY interested in coming, would it be possible from a physics point of view for a current-gen airplane to travel BOG-DXB, for instance? I know DXB-BOG is possible, but due to the altitude, would the return trip be feasible or must we keep travelling via MAD or LAX to reach Asia?
Well AFAIK EK was (is?) interested in BOG, i really think that an A340-500 could do the route with not that much restriction (but still restricted), i think that if EK really wants to come to BOG it would need to make a stop in Europe to make the route with more cargo and PAX, thus making more money that doing BOG-DXB non stop.
Just my two cents.
Gus
SKBO
Colombian coffee, the best...take a cup and you will see how delicious it is.
RCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4290 posts, RR: 13 Reply 48, posted (2 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 3572 times:
Quoting trent772 (Reply 45): They are? I was there last week and they surely don't look like they're done, I saw a lot of cardboard walls and unfinished work, I sincerely hope they haven't finished.
They were handed to Aerocivil on the date the article was published. They're done.
Quoting trent772 (Reply 45): The Cienaga is dead, I'm sure the tree huggers will disagree but it has been for awhile, sure it would be more expensive but the task of reclaiming land from a body of water is sort of a simple one, just ask the Dutch and the Japanese.
Let's see what happens with CTG. If they really want to make it a large tourist destinations they're going to have to put a lot of money into the city.
Quoting tavong (Reply 46): Well AFAIK EK was (is?) interested in BOG, i really think that an A340-500 could do the route with not that much restriction (but still restricted), i think that if EK really wants to come to BOG it would need to make a stop in Europe
Most likely it would be via CCS.
On other news, on top of the new SJU flights, AV is launching a 5th weekly frequency to HAV.
trent772 From Colombia, joined Oct 2012, 102 posts, RR: 0 Reply 49, posted (2 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 3369 times:
Hello All,
Today while leaving the active runway (13R), we crossed paths with a B737 belonging to the Colombian Air Force, I'm sure it was either a series 300 or 400, named "Atlas", having never seen this particular plane here in Colombia and needless to say operating for FAC I would like to know if anyone has any info on this particular plane.
777jaah From Colombia, joined Jan 2006, 1401 posts, RR: 2 Reply 50, posted (2 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 3355 times:
Quoting trent772 (Reply 49): I'm sure it was either a series 300 or 400,
Is a 737-400. I know conversion from pax to combi was made somewhere in Asia by an american company. FAC oficially received the airplane on april 09 in Miami, and it was flown to BOG.
RCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4290 posts, RR: 13 Reply 52, posted (1 month 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 3193 times:
Avianca are significantly increasing their caribbean operations,
With the new 3x weekly flights to SJU and 4x weekly flights to CUN, Avianca are also increasing HAV from 4 to 5 weekly flights and PUJ from 4 weekly to daily flights. This is on top of the daily flights to SDQ, AUA and CUR. A total of almost 6 daily flights to the caribbean will be offered (excluding CCS, BAQ, SMR, CTG, ADZ, RCH, VUP and MTR).
A388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9130 posts, RR: 13 Reply 53, posted (1 month 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3122 times:
Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 52): This is on top of the daily flights to SDQ, AUA and CUR
The increase to CUR (and I'm guessing to AUA as well) is seasonal and is done every year so this increase isn't anything special.
Does anyone here know what the status is of AV's new livery? What's the final outcome and when will the first aircraft be painted and which aircraft will it be?
RICARIZA From Colombia, joined Apr 2005, 2356 posts, RR: 29 Reply 54, posted (1 month 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 2950 times:
The only status is a rumor that it would be mostly white with a new condor-like logo in red, a red tail and red engines.. really bad livery, very close to TAM's, that is my only hope that it will only be a rumor and we will keep a livery close to the current one with the wonderful and characteristic red fuselage
I miss ACES, I am proud of AVIANCA & I am loyal to AMERICAN
A388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9130 posts, RR: 13 Reply 55, posted (1 month 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 2844 times:
Quoting RICARIZA (Reply 54): The only status is a rumor that it would be mostly white with a new condor-like logo in red, a red tail and red engines.. really bad livery, very close to TAM's, that is my only hope that it will only be a rumor and we will keep a livery close to the current one with the wonderful and characteristic red fuselage
RCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4290 posts, RR: 13 Reply 58, posted (1 month 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 2816 times:
Quoting A388 (Reply 53): The increase to CUR (and I'm guessing to AUA as well) is seasonal and is done every year so this increase isn't anything special.
CUR and AUA operate daily year-round, i don't understand what you think I said in my previous post...
On other news, regional operator Easyfly have increased their NVA-BOG flights to up to 12 daily on weekdays!
I don't think the route has ever had this much frequency, AV operate 7 daily flights and LA operate 4, mostly on turboprops with a couple of A318s thrown in every day. This is impressive considering the drive from Bogotá to Neiva is 5 hours (which is short for colombian standards).
A388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9130 posts, RR: 13 Reply 59, posted (1 month 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 2804 times:
Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 58): CUR and AUA operate daily year-round, i don't understand what you think I said in my previous post...
No they don't operate daily year round, at least not to CUR. CUR is operated daily only during high season, during low season it is operated 5 times a week (on mondays, wednesdays, thursdays,fridays and sundays).
A388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9130 posts, RR: 13 Reply 62, posted (1 month 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 2632 times:
Quoting trent772 (Reply 61): Interesting thing, the A350's ordered by Synergy will not be operated by AV. Will these be operated by AV Brasil then?
Nice article indeed and nothing new actually. Only the A350 deployment is news to me as you say but coming to think of it, it doesn't surprise me. What I've read so far AV is satisfied with the A332 so they may not need a larger aircraft like the A350 especially when they will be receiving the 787. The A350's size is better used from the much larger Brazilian market where competition is much more intense due to the presence of TAM. Let's how they will grow but I also see AV becoming much bigger than they are not in the coming years.
bogota From Colombia, joined Sep 2004, 738 posts, RR: 1 Reply 63, posted (1 month 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 2564 times:
Nothing is written in stone, as it was said before and refuted by many, AV was interested in keeping the A330 together with the B787. I can be quite sure AV will increase its order of both A350 and B787 and they will operate in the end both types of aircraft from all of its future bases including BOG.
BOG-GRU-BOG has been 14x weekly for a long time now. The upgrade consists on extra capacity being added as more A330s will be operating the flights.
Quoting A388 (Reply 59): No they don't operate daily year round, at least not to CUR
Ok, point taken. That's still not what i'm referring to. The increases are what's mentioned in the post, on top of the flights already operated to CUR but also SDQ and AUA which do operate daily, year-round.
Quoting A388 (Reply 59): CUR is operated daily only during high season, during low season it is operated 5 times a week (on mondays, wednesdays, thursdays,fridays and sundays).
As you said before and I just remembered, CUR is operated 6 weekly year-round, daily during high season.
troest From Denmark, joined Mar 2008, 167 posts, RR: 0 Reply 66, posted (1 month 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 2418 times:
Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 65): BOG-GRU-BOG has been 14x weekly for a long time now. The upgrade consists on extra capacity being added as more A330s will be operating the flights.
Thanks for clearing it up. Perhaps it will be become an all A330 route soon.
Quoting troest (Reply 66): Thanks for clearing it up. Perhaps it will be become an all A330 route soon.
With Villegas saying that they want to consolidate and expand their widebody presence on key routes, this will surely happen once the 787s start arriving next year.
One of the things that made me curious is the extension of one of the runways of up to 900 meters. Is that really necessary? Is it worth the investment? How aout tire speed limitations?
Cheers
777jaah
Next flights: AV BOG-ADZ-BOG, AV-UA BOG-IAD-ORD-IAD-BOG, BOG-FLL-BOG, LA BOG-MIA-BOG J
RCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4290 posts, RR: 13 Reply 71, posted (1 month 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 2066 times:
It's great news that the government is finally taking an active role in expanding El Dorado to it's true potential.
The plan includes,
Transferring CATAM airbase to nearby Madrid which already has an airbase of it's own.
A third runway.
Runway extensions for better aircraft performance (this specially should help long haul and cargo flights).
New satellite terminals connected to the main terminal by passenger walkways (no people mover yet, what a shame).
A total of 53 domestic jetways, 26 international jetways and 15 remote positions.
Works should start during the next five years, as the current design will reach capacity by 2018, says the government. Passenger numbers are up by 17,6% for Q1 2013 at the airport.
Quoting 777jaah (Reply 70):
One of the things that made me curious is the extension of one of the runways of up to 900 meters. Is that really necessary? Is it worth the investment? How aout tire speed limitations?
There was a question about that. I don't see either why 900 meters should be necessary, with 500 or 600 it should be fine.
They state a 900m extension would allow transat flight sto operate at 98% (instead of the actual 70%), is that true? If it is, it would make BOG a much more attractive destination for foreign carriers who could come with more efficient frames, not to mention LH IB and AF could drop the A340 without losing much efficiency.
777jaah From Colombia, joined Jan 2006, 1401 posts, RR: 2 Reply 73, posted (1 month 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 2050 times:
Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 71): I don't see either why 900 meters should be necessary,
Me neither
Quoting falkerker (Reply 72): If it is, it would make BOG a much more attractive destination for foreign carriers who could come with more efficient frames, not to mention LH IB and AF could drop the A340 without losing much efficiency.
I still doubt about tire speed limitations. Maybe someone with real technical knowledge can give us some info on that. About the companies that fly the 340 to BOG, I've heard that the altitude and a scenario where they loose an engine after TO is why they prefer to used quads instead of twins into BOG. Again, some real technical input on this issue would be awesome.
Next flights: AV BOG-ADZ-BOG, AV-UA BOG-IAD-ORD-IAD-BOG, BOG-FLL-BOG, LA BOG-MIA-BOG J
trent772 From Colombia, joined Oct 2012, 102 posts, RR: 0 Reply 74, posted (1 month 3 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 2036 times:
Interesting article, CATAM should have been moved out of EDR centuries ago.
Quote: “Hay que acelerar el paso porque el lío no va ser la infraestructura en tierra sino el espacio aéreo que se está acabando”, afirmó Castro.
What a load of BS, airspace around BOG isn't running out, there's plenty of it, it just has been wrongfully manged by air traffic controllers and Aerocivil for decades.
The problem isn't due to parking space available either, can you believe that EDR with its two runways only handles 30 operations per hour? Yes, that's right, only one operation (take-off or landing) every two minutes. Oh yeah and that's on clear and calm days, when the weather doesn't cooperate the s**t really hits the fan and operations can be reduced to just 22 an hour. Just unbelievable
I'd like to see the numbers for airports with similar layouts, something like LHR which also has two parallel runways and the terminals laid out in between them, I'm quite sure that an airport like LHR handles 120+ operations each hour.
Also the runways at EDR at far enough apart that the could (should) be operated as independent parallel ILS approaches, yet they're still operated as dependent of each other with staggered approaches which doesn't allow a controller from a given runway the freedom to "control" the traffic as he is depending on what the other guy does.
Aerocivil and air traffic controllers need to "get with the program" and update the 1950's ATC procedures that are in place otherwise they can set up 20 airports the size of LAX and we would still have the same problems as now.
But in all I think the start of the process of relocating CATAM is underway and that can't hurt.
And the thing with the runway expansion is another thing that they should take a long look at, the problem with BOG is not the lack of runway lenght available, is the terrain features surrounding the airport.
falkerker From Seychelles, joined Apr 2012, 158 posts, RR: 0 Reply 75, posted (1 month 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 1987 times:
Quoting 777jaah (Reply 73): 've heard that the altitude and a scenario where they loose an engine after TO is why they prefer to used quads instead of twins into BOG.
There was some news a while back that AF was wondering about switching A340 to 777 bacause they needed larger capacity but they were hesitant because of the ¨special¨ limitations of BOG.
Quoting trent772 (Reply 74): The problem isn't due to parking space available either, can you believe that EDR with its two runways only handles 30 operations per hour?
Third world mentality makes us a third world country..... I cannot understand why they wont update the ATC policy and upgrade the control tower. Or perhaps if BOG managed 120+ operations, more routes could be added, that would be terrible!!!! (irony off)
Quoting trent772 (Reply 74): And the thing with the runway expansion is another thing that they should take a long look at, the problem with BOG is not the lack of runway lenght available, is the terrain features surrounding the airport.
Altitude, high grounds surrounding the airport, lack of adequate go-around routes... Once again, they believe that with expanding the runway they can solve the issue....
falkerker From Seychelles, joined Apr 2012, 158 posts, RR: 0 Reply 79, posted (1 month 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 1573 times:
Although the current livery was beautiful, I think it was a tad outdated and needed some refurbishment. Granted, they could have done MUCH better, but I still like it. It is still missing the AVIANCA lettering up front so maybe that will change it somewhat, not much, anyhow,.
trent772 From Colombia, joined Oct 2012, 102 posts, RR: 0 Reply 80, posted (1 month 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 1547 times:
This new livery is wrong on so many levels it's not even funny. And to think that actually some lame design agency got paid for this? I could have done a better job myself just using Windows 95 and MS Paint!
Can anyone name an airline that has changed its livery recently (3-5 years) and had an actual improvement? I can't think of one.
MATURRO727 From Colombia, joined Apr 2004, 298 posts, RR: 0 Reply 81, posted (1 month 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 1446 times:
Quoting falkerker (Reply 77): New Avianca Livery leaked... Aside from the obvious copy from AA, I do like it (although I'll get bashed for saying so)
well, maybe the same agency designed both AV and AA new livery, if so what a lazy bastards...
Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 78): It's a BIG step backwards from the current and very beautiful livery. They incorporated the bland TACA look. Fail.
Quoting trent772 (Reply 80): This new livery is wrong on so many levels it's not even funny. And to think that actually some lame design agency got paid for this? I could have done a better job myself just using Windows 95 and MS Paint!
Can anyone name an airline that has changed its livery recently (3-5 years) and had an actual improvement? I can't think of one.
EPIC FAIL!!!!!
agreed !
Now im wondering what will happen wth AV Brasil as they are not part of the holding, will they keep the red ?
RCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4290 posts, RR: 13 Reply 83, posted (1 month 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 938 times:
Here's the press release for the launch of MDE-MEX fights, to operate between the 5th of july and september the 1st, 3x weekly, on airbus A320 aircraft:
Avianca Holdings S.A. has made a 75.3US$ million net profit for the 1st quarter of 2013, reversing the small loss made in the same quarter of last year, operating income for the quarter was up by 6% to US$ 1.11 billion:
Let's hope for some rational fares on the route now! (They're never below US$600 for a four hour flight). This is welcome competition, the AM/AV/CM* trio has been ripping everyone off!
The Labor Ministry of Colombia is in dispute with LAN for the second time in six months over measures that have affected their pilots' liberty of forming part of a union:
SJOtoLIR From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 4128 posts, RR: 5 Reply 85, posted (3 weeks 4 days 5 hours 12 minutes ago) and read 576 times:
Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 84): Interjet to finally start flights to BOG, after the mexican government has assigned them over the ghost of MX for the route:
The press release didn't state the intended date for the first flight.
InterJet is regulated under the low-cost model and it may imply the reduction of fares between Bogota and Mexico City.
I found interesting the resume of AV BOG-CUN 4x weekly as well as the seasonal AV MDE-MEX 3x weekly.
RCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4290 posts, RR: 13 Reply 86, posted (3 weeks 3 days 17 hours 43 minutes ago) and read 494 times:
Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 85): The press release didn't state the intended date for the first flight.
It says next summer...that's all indeed.
Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 85): InterJet is regulated under the low-cost model and it may imply the reduction of fares between Bogota and Mexico City.
It will surely mean the reduction of fares between BOG and MEX.
Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 85): I found interesting the resume of AV BOG-CUN 4x weekly as well as the seasonal AV MDE-MEX 3x weekly.
Traffic between Colombia and Mexico is soaring since the visa requirement was lifted with the Alianza del Pacífico integration. Business is larger than ever and tourism (specially colombians visiting Mexico) has been expanding explosively.
Sponsor Message: 
From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4290 posts, 
From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 9130 posts, 
From Denmark, joined Mar 2008, 167 posts, 
From Costa Rica, joined Jul 2007, 4128 posts, 
)
From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2004, 2388 posts, 
From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4124 posts, 
From Venezuela, joined Jan 2005, 5858 posts, 
From Chile, joined Feb 2006, 8316 posts, 
From United States of America, joined May 2000, 493 posts, 
From Seychelles, joined Apr 2012, 158 posts, 
Printer friendly format 
